Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast

What’s it like raising kids in a throuple? In this episode we dive into the dynamic of a polyamorous relationship with Ian, Alan, and Jeremy, the throuple who made the news after they managed to change the way California law defines family, listing all three of them as fathers on their daughter’s birth certificate. In recent years we are seeing more and more throuples in the gay community, and on our podcast Dr. Ian Jenkins, author of the book Three Dads and a Baby, explained to us how it came about for him. “In collage I took a bunch of anthropology classes,” Jenkins explains, “and I was thinking to myself, it’s pretty unusual that someone is EVERYTHING to somebody else, and there may be different aspects of your personality that somebody else nurtures or feels, needs and stuff, so, that was something that I brought to my dating with Alan and he had needed to do some thinking about it and make sure that was okay, we went ahead and started to date a couple of people, we kissed a number of frogs before we met Jeremy, with Jeremy it was totally different, we had a great connection right away.” Ian had been with Alan for 19 years, and they’ve been with Jeremy, for ten. And they have two biological children — Piper, who is 5, and Parker, who is 3. “If you asked me about being in a throuple, before [my experience] I’d say that’s too complicated and crazy,” Alan says on Daddy Squared, “why would anyone want that it’s hard enough to be with one person.” “And after I’d say, oh, now that I’m approaching 45 I realize it’s so pragmatic in a lot of ways. I’m not trying to sell somebody on that and say you should definitely do this, it works for us, it worked out it evolved this way organically, and if we are talking to friends that are of our age, they have kids, they have been in a relationship for a long time, almost universally the reaction is oh I see the appeal.” On our interview with the three we heard about what it’s like raising kids as a throuple, why it was important to them to make it legal, and we also hear about some of the stereotypes and the misconceptions they face, including ‘coming out’ to their parents about the throuple. “Being in a throuple is coming out again, for sure,” Alan admits. “I’ve been with Ian for a long time and [my parents] knew Ian. My mom was more like, ‘okay, it’s different, I understand,’ she was supportive, and my dad was like, ‘I just struggle to see how is that conforms with fidelity in all these kind of traditional values.’ But he quickly came around. But we were also in a position, kind of later in life, where I’m not financially dependent on my parents, I’ve got my own life going on, I gotta live my life. I’ve been with Ian for a long time and I felt strongly that our life is better with Jeremy, this needs to work, I wanted to work and this is important to me. ” “I make a point,” Jeremy adds, “if I meet new people, like if we have a new worker, pretty early on I’d say, like, ‘hey just so you know I have two partners, so if we’re talking about our home lives I don’t want you to sit there and say hey what’s going on.’ I [come out] constantly at all times.” Our Guests: Ian, Alan and Jeremy Dr. Ian Jenkins is the author of “Three Dads and a Baby: Adventures in Modern Parenting“, a debut memoir about his experiences trying to have a baby as part of a polyamorous gay “Throuple.” The three men wanted to have a child, but the road to having a baby took them through embryo adoption, IVF and surrogacy, dealing with lawyers and doctors, enormous medical bills, questions about polyamorous parenting, and legal battles to get all 3 dads listed on the birth certificate (they were the first to do so). Ian is joined by his partners Alan, a clinical psychologist, and Jeremy, a zookeeper at the San Diego Zoo. Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a nonprofit organization that helps gay men who are interested in becoming fathers through surrogacy navigate the sea of information and overcome the financial barrier. In this episode, Alan from Men Having Babies talks about the meaning of Ethical Surrogacy: MHB has developed a framework for ethical surrogacy principles, protocols and best practices for intended parents Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuests: Dr. Alan Jenkins, Alan Mayfield, Jeremy HodgesOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: DR. IAN JENKINS: ‘Three Dads and a Baby’ Tells the Story of the First Polyamorous Family to Secure Three Parents Listed on a Birth Certificate (San Diego LGBTQ News, 2020) Polyamorous gay throuple who made history by becoming first family to list THREE dads on a birth certificate say their unique journey into parenthood is 'like winning the lottery' (Daily Mail, 2021) Daddy Squared on Instagram - meet the dads on our Committee of Imperfect Parenting: Rick, Frankie, Chad, Adrain, Jorge Connect With Us Drop us a line Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Gay dads often face stereotypes, including homophobic ones, but also somewhat uncomfortable stereotypes from moms, and even from childless gay men in our very own community. In this episode of Daddy Squared, we brought Neal Broverman, editor of The Advocate and OUT magazines, to try and break down the stereotypes, and see if there’s something we can do to avoid them. This is part 1 of a double-episode special, celebrating 100 episodes of Daddy Squared. “Society is more used to women being with children, and when you have men with children there’s just judgement and some of it is not good,” Neal Broverman says on Daddy Squared. “So yeah, I do think there’s pressure on us to be stand out people and kind of represent the best all the time.” This is part 1 in a special double-episode, celebrating 100 episodes of our podcast discusses stereotypes and judgement of gay dads. In part 2, also dropped today, we discuss bullying. In both episodes we saw how the two subject are weaved into each other. “If you’ve had a negative situation as a gay male parent, I think almost all of us have had at least one, it kind of colors your experience and you’re on edge,” Broverman says. “You can kind of make situations that aren’t inherently negative negative. As I’ve grown older as a parent, I’ve done my best to filter out other people’s looks, expectations, reactions to my kids.” Broverman himself made the news last year, after he and his family faced a harsh homophobic harassment in an Amtrak train in San Jose that ended only after police intervention. “This lie [that drives hate towards gay men] has been going around for decades,” Broverman says, “and now it’s been magnified by people like Margory Taylor Green and all the people that want to refer to us as ‘groomers.’ It’s a cynical tactic.” “I can be father of the year – and I’ll still be an abomination in the eyes [of the person on the train]. There’s nothing I can do. There’s so much judgement with gay people, and it’s just a war you’re not going to win and I care what my kids think of me, I don’t care what strangers think of me.” In the podcast, we also discuss the contribution of social media to the judgment and stereotypes. “I follow gay dads on Instagram and I follow opposite sex couple,” Neal tells us. “There’s definitely a representation being put out there of all our kids are dressed perfectly all the time and their hair is blown out, and, you know, we’re tanned and we have abs and we’re in Maui every other weekend.” “I mean – everyone who’s a parent knows that’s not the case, we usually running around trying to get our kids to school and hold our jobs and feed the dog and afford to put over a roof and feed them so I take it with a grain of salt. Every parent I know is struggling, and it’s not that they don’t love the idea of being parent, it’s just hard. When I’m on Instagram I understand that this is marketing for people, they present themselves in a very specific way… I know that Instagram is not reality.” Our Guest: Neal Broverman Neal Broverman is the Editorial Director, Print of Pride Media, publishers of The Advocate, Out, Out Traveler, and Plus, spending more than 20 years in journalism. He indulges his interest in transportation and urban planning with regular contributions to Los Angeles magazine, and his work has also appeared in the Los Angeles Times and USA Today. Neal lives in the Los Angels with his husband, Robbie, their children, and their chiweenie. Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a nonprofit organization that helps gay men who are interested in becoming fathers through surrogacy navigate the sea of information and overcome the financial barrier. In this episode, Executive Director Ron Poole-Dayan discusses misconception and stereotype of surrogacy - often revolve around the surrogates' motives. Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Neal BrovermanOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: Gay Parents Called 'Rapists' and 'Pedophiles' in Amtrak Incident (NBC News) Amtrak Responds After Gay Couple is Verbally Assaulted by Unruly Passenger (KTLA 5 News) The Parent Test Trailer ABC’s ‘The Parent Test’ Cast Includes Gay Dads Yan and Alex (BearWorld Magazine) The Parent Test: Eight Things I Learned From Being on the Show Connect With Us Drop us a line Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Many parents feel shame about giving their kids cake or candy and the idea of giving processed sugar became taboo among parents. In this episode of Daddy Squared we went on a journey to find the balance of nutrition for kids and found the “no-shame no-shade” method that will reassure you that your kids eat healthy, but at the same time not depriving them of sugar. We spoke to a nutritionist and a pediatric gastroenterologist, and came up with our own nutrition mix-and-match healthy meal cheat sheet. Admitting we give our kids “Cake for Breakfast” on the TV Show The Parent Test sparked a conversation around sugar and kids’ nutrition. While we’ve been struggling with this for a while (and even tried to solve it before on our podcast), we were reluctant to deprive our kids of sugar, but instead wanted to find a “magic formula” of a diet that is healthy – but also has cake in it. We think we found it! “We all deal with the same problems, I come across that on a daily basis,” told us celebrity nutritionist Kevin Libby. “First and foremost, when you’re approaching adolescent nutrition, whether it be toddlers or pre-teens, the number one thing you don’t want to do is assign any punishment or rewards to foods. Otherwise you start creating a life-long negative behaviors around food. You want them to have a good relationship with food, it’s there to nourish them, it’s there to give them energy.” To further deepen our research, we also found Dr. Matthew Riley, a pediatric gastroenterologist (and a gay dad!) who first of all stripped off the shame around sugar and then told us that there’s no one right food to eat or right way to formulate your diet – so we can start with what our kids eat now, and just add what’s missing and play with the balance of the type of food. “You really have to go back to what are the building blocks of nutrition,” Dr. Riley explained on Daddy Squared podcast. “And sugar - it’s just sugar, it’s carbohydrate, nearly everything that we eat has sugar in it. So it’s sugar, fats, proteins, those are the three marco nutrions that humans need to survive – whether you want to call it sugar or carbohydrates it’s all the same thing.” “I think when people say ‘I don’t give my kid sugar’ they are talking about processed sugar or foods with added sugar or food with primary macro nutrions, when you read the label is most or only sugar based. If you look at a muffin or bread, those are full of complex carbohydrates which are all technically sugars as well. So it’s a really bigger issue that gets really over simplified for a lot of people and that leads to an overlay of shaming [in parents].” Dr. Riley advised us that while the amount of sugar may be a consideration, the better question is what you’re having it with. “How do you mixing and combining foods together so they are presented in a balanced way,” he said. “Dietitians will talk to you about every meal or snack really, ideally, will be some kind of a carbohydrate-based (grain) item, a protein source and a fruit or vegetable option. And there’s place for candy too! Candy is delicious, that’s why we have it, right? Should that be done in eccess? Probably not, should that be the sole source of your carbohydrates? Probably not, but I don’t think that there’s one right way. You’re looking for the right balance and making sure that that’s part of your diat but not the sole source.” FREE DOWNLOAD: Daddy Squared's Meal Plan - Inspired by our conversation with Dr. Matthew Riley “When you are saving [candy] only to special occasions, jou are just amping up the natural rewards system that exists for us human anyway. What we striving for with kids, is getting not only that balanced nutrition that we’re talking about but also developing the healthy attitude towards food: it’s there to nourish my body and keep me healthy – and sometimes it’s for fun! Sometimes it’s just delicious and we’re having it to celebrate to be with people and mark occasions. But it shouldn’t be these obsessive things, like oh my god these are taboo foods which we give more power to.” Episode Guest: Dr. Matthew Riley Dr. Matthew Riley (pictured in a proud moment with his son) is a proud gay dad and a fellowship-trained physician in Pediatric Gastroenterology and Nutrition. He loves teaching kids and their parents about the inner working of their bodies, including the diseases that affect the GI tract and all of the ways that children and their parents can support nutrition and gastrointestinal wellness. Episode Guest: Kevin Libby Kevin Libby (PH2 Nutrition) is a nutritional counselor in Santa Monica, California with over 20 years of experience. He defined his purpose in service by continually adopting best practices in nutritional sciences. His talents for getting incredible results were recognized immediately worldwide. This has translated to numerous physique transformations in Hollywood blockbusters and countless television series’. His specialties range from difficult weight loss cases, autoimmune and digestive issues, performance athletes to actors/actresses getting ready for a big role or the red carpet. Check out the full interview with Kevin: https://youtu.be/ejb_F5sPFKw Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a nonprofit organization that helps gay men who are interested in becoming fathers through surrogacy navigate the sea of information and overcome the financial barrier. In this episode, Sara Miller from the MHB staff discuss considerations before matching with your surrogate. Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuests: Kevin Libby, Dr. Matthew RileyOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy here Connect With Us Drop us a line Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Competition and comparison between siblings is an absolute nightmare for parents. We all want our kids to grow up to be this unit that will support, protect, love, and be each other’s best friends. How can we use the short time with them to pass this message along? We brought Parenting Expert Einat Nathan to discuss sibling rivalry, when it is healthy, and what we parents need to do in order to not pour gasoline onto the flame. At the beginning of the episode, we came to Einat with the notion of the competition between brothers, but Einat first tought us the important distinction between competition and rivalry. “Competition is not natural, the rivalry is natural,” Einat said. “When I’m talking about Rivalry I’m talking about a field of practice in the sibling zone which we are not 100% aware of. We’re all looking for this place of belonging, significance, attention, encouragement, all the good stuff that the parents have to offer is now a commodity, and the race for the commodity.” Competition between brothers, Einat suggests, is an unhealthy development of the rivalry. “In competition there’s a winner, and only one winner,” she says. “That’s the difference.” Einat says that the first thing parents should notice when they intervene in siblings’ fights is that we parents never know the full, big picture. “We see dots on a long range of time [which is the siblings’ relationship]. We become this judge because we are very edgy when it comes to every behavior that is not harmonious.” “If we understand or accept that we know nothing. If we step in in the name of justice – we’re not doing justice. We’re only reacting to a specific scene that we’ve seen.” “We don’t want to give our children this ideal of something that doesn’t exist, that relationship has to be quite, perfect. Relationships are messy, and they are all about communicating different needs, negotiating, explaining, getting hurt, making amends.” “If we are curious enough, we can be this ambulance outside the field, we’re getting the hurt ones, we can be there for them. When I hear, ‘mommmy!’ I’m saying ‘I’m in the kitchen guys whoever needs me is welcome to come.” Einat says that dissolving competition between siblings takes time, and the key for it is for us parents not to give equally to every child. “We parents have this amazing super power,” She explains. “We know at every minute what each pone of you needs. Not wants, we don’t promise the want, but what each of you need. And we’re going to prove it but it’s not going to be equal. When they have a birthday they are able to celebrate their siblings birthday with an open heart because they know it’s going to be their turn.” Also on competition, we talked about parents judging other parents. “We are basically wired to judge who’s in our club and who’s not,” Einat told us. “And we women are so good at that, you know. If she’s breastfeeding I’m thinking something, if she has a career and I’m a stay-at-home I’m thinking something, If she has this Instagram… and it all lands on our basic insecurity and/or on our innate need for a group, for empathy. We’re all yearning for that, against judgement and judging ourselves. And I think the minute we can accept that it’s all happening, you know, between our ears, and the subjectivity of us interpreting who’s for us and who’s against us, other people are commenting or judging or giving advise – it helps them feel superior. It’s the way that humans self-talk themselves, self-soothe themselves and find this group they want to belong to.” Our Guest: Einat Nathan Einat Nathan is a parenting expert, public speaker and bestselling author, certified by the Adler Institute and the Ministry of Education for Parental Instruction and Group Instruction. She also holds a bachelor’s degree in law from Tel Aviv University.Her debut book “Haimsheli”, was the national bestseller of the year across all categories (2018) and is still a steady-seller. The rights for the book had been acquired by top publishers in North America (published under the name "My Everything", picked by Amazon editors as one of the best books of 2021) China, South Korea, Russia, Spain, Romania, Lithuania, Croatia, Turkey and the Netherlands.Her second book "Mishelanu" about parenting teenagers, came out in Israel in March 2021 and is also a bestseller.Einat lives in Tel Aviv with her husband Yuval, and her five children Eyal, Yoav, Lihi, Rona, and Shira. Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a community, nonprofit organization that helps gay men become fathers via surrogacy with education and financial assistance. In each episode this season, the team of Men Having Babies (MHB) will educate us on aspects of having kids through ethical surrogacy. In this episode, Executive Director Ron Poole-Dayan discusses twins pregnancy in ethical surrogacy. Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Einat NathanOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSFkczZrbLI "Kids are the best psychotherapy a conscious person can undergo. They take us back to our own painful and thrilling childhood, they will always be first to identify our weaknesses, but most of all they are a profound mirror that confronts us with the fact that we never were and never will be perfect..." - Read more Connect With Us Drop us a line Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Whether you decide to adopt or have babies through assistant reproduction, you'll want a judgement to approve your guardianship on your baby. In this episode of Daddy Squared podcast, we explore different types of legal guardianship with the help of Family Formation attorney Amira Hasenbush, JD, MPH. For gay men who want to become fathers, it doesn’t matter if you choose to do it through assisted reproduction or adoption, you’re going to need a lawyer to protect your parentage. Some states now have administrative procedures where you don’t have to go to court, but Family Formation lawyer Amira Hasenbush warned against that. “There’s something in the United States constitution called The Full Faith and Credit Clause,” and what that says is that judgement from one state has to be legally recognized in every other state in the country,” Amira explained on Daddy Squared podcast. “An administrative document is not a judgement. You want a judgement that protects your parenthood.” In our interview with Amira we explored the various ways in which attorneys are involved in protecting parentage for gay men, from adoption, to nomination of legal guardianship, to surrogacy, which include, besides the contracts with the surrogate and egg donor, a judge’s order that your babies are yours. “In some states you can get a pre-birth order,” Amira said, “that you get before the baby’s born. That’s what we do in California. The birth clerk uses that to put both of you on the Birth Certificate, from birth. And it will vary by state, even by county, as to what the judge is going to want to see. In California, if you do gestational surrogacy, meaning you have an egg donor, there’s a very clear statutory frame work of ‘these are the boxes you need to check’ and in most cases in California if you check all those boxes and the lawyer has put together all of the paperwork to say ‘yes we checked all those boxes’ you don’t even have to go in for a hearing.” “So some states will do pre-birth, some will do post-birth and there are states that from time to time will require some sort of adoption proceeding. So it’s really important that when choosing your surrogate, talk to lawyers where the surrogate lives and the baby’s going to be born.” Talking to a family formation lawyer before you begin your journey to fatherhood can be helpful – no matter what route to fatherhood you choose. There are some family formation lawyers who only do assisted reproduction, some will only do adoption and there are many who do both. Amira advises to choose your lawyer from either AAAA, or The Family Law Institute, which is more specific for LGBT people. In our discussion on adoption, Hasenbush explained the difference between step-parent adoption and second-parent adoption. “Step parent histrorically was switching out the parents,” Amira explained, “it was usually, let’s talk historically, a different-sex couple, so you got mom and dad, they got divorced, let’s say kid goes with mom and mom gets remarried to step dad, so step dad wants to raise the child so they basically take out bio dad and replace, because you could only have two parents.” “Then we had all these same-sex couples who couldn’t get married, and they said, well, we’re two parents, and we’d like to both be the parents of this child,” and that’s how second-parent adoption started, which is basically an adoption outside of marriage. Amira also said that in California, starting in 2016, it was determined that we can actually file for more than two parents, and there are different ways to do it depending upon how things started – but that’s a whole other episode! Godfather In this episode we also talked about godparents, and how it's related to guardianship. We heard on the show Godfather stories from three gay men, Kyle from Texas, Armani from California and Jonathan from Wisconsin. Below are the full interviews with the guys. https://youtu.be/GfW68FrrPUU https://youtu.be/dzZ1DO_LDnY https://youtu.be/K3E3SNlpNPQ Our Guest: Amira Hasenbush, JD, MPH Amira Hasenbush is a family formation attorney, and the founder of All Family Legal in Los Angeles, California. She helps families through the process of surrogacy, adoption, sperm donation and egg donation. Amira has chosen family representing all ends of the LGBTQ spectrum, giving her a deeper understanding of the special needs that may be involved for LGBTQ+ families. Prior to taking her law practice full-time, Amira spent five and a half years as a Fellow for the Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, where she did research and published reports on LGBT law and policy. She graduated second in her class from UCLA School of Law and holds a Masters in Public Health from UCLA School of Public Health. Amira has been published extensively and cited and featured in a variety of media outlets and journals, including the Boston Globe, ABC News, Time and the New England Journal of Medicine. She is an active member of the National LGBTQ+ Bar Association's Family Law Institute, the chair of the Legal Advisory Committee for Men Having Babies, and the Family Law Section Liaison for the American Bar Association 's Commission on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity. Guest Host: Daniel Vandenbark Daniel is a single dad, co-parenting with his former partner to raise their son, Torbett, who came to them through open-adoption. Daniel founded his design firm over twenty years ago, designing custom interiors and waterwise landscapes for clients in SoCal and through the US. Daniel is an outdoor enthusiast and enjoys sharing time backpacking, snowboarding and dadventuring with Torbett. Men Having Babies Men Having Babies is a community, nonprofit organization that helps gay men become fathers via surrogacy with education and financial assistance. In each episode this season, the team of Men Having Babies (MHB) will educate us on aspects of having kids through ethical surrogacy. In this episode, Sara Miller of the MHB staff talks about the role of the lawyer in the surrogacy process. Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest Host: Daniel VandenbarkGuests: Amira Hasenbush, All Family Legal and Jonathan Fox-Haines, Kyle Loyd, Armani RonaldoOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: It's Corn! Academy of Adoption and Assisted Reproduction Attorneys Directory Connect With Us Drop us a line Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Dealing with our kids’ fears is one of our key roles as parents. We invited Dr. Tina Payne Bryson, co-author of The Power of Showing Up who conducts workshops for parents, educators, and clinicians all over the world, to help us navigate our children’s greatest fears (and some of our fears as parents). Our consistent response to our kids’ fears defines the way in which they will deal with life growing up. Sound overwhelming? To us it did too. So it didn’t come as a surprise in conversation with Dr. Tina Payne Bryson (one of the most sought-after parenting coaches in America) that she directed us back to our own anxieties. “We are not at fault for all of our children’s fears,” Dr. Payne Bryson said on our podcast, “but we play a big role in how they construct the meaning of it, how tolerable the fear is and how to respond to it. So we have to start with ourselves and our own fears and anxieties.” “We first have to remember how much we set the tone and the meaning for our kids. You know, when you have a toddler and they hear a scary noise, like a helicopter overhead, the first thing they do is look at your face. And if your face looks scared that creates the meaning, ‘wow, that’s dangerous’ that they follow, especially in those early years.” We talked with Dr. Tina about “popular” children’s fears: fear of going to new places (new class, new camp), COVID-19, fear of the dark and fear of a parent dying. “Around the ages 4-6 and especially between 5-7 kids go through a significant separation anxiety or other kind of anxieties like not wanting to go to the bathroom by themselves,” Dr. Tina explained, and said it’s something most parents don’t talk about and may not know. “It’s evidence of a new cognitive growth, a new cognitive development spurt that they can now imagine bad things happening, parents dying, someone getting into the upstairs bathroom and murdering everyone – they can imagine these things now, but they don’t have the emotional capacity to regulate the feelings around that. So it is really typical for kids development and these are real legitimate fears.” Dr. Payne Bryson gave us some tips to handle our kids’ fears. One of them was to never criticize, minimize or mobilize the fears. “Comments like ‘why are you upset about this? It’s not that big of a deal’ minimizes the fear. That doesn’t ever cause the child to think ‘Oh, you’re right, I’m not afraid anymore.’ What it does is leave them alone with the fear. Their feeling stays the same but now they got the message of ‘they don’t get me and I’m alone with it because they’re just going to try to talk me out of it'.” “Our brain is an association machine. When we criticize them with ‘Why are you being so sensitive about this?’ they make an association with ‘I shared my feelings, that didn’t feel good, maybe I’m not going to keep doing this.’” “The third thing we don’t want to do is mobilize: ‘Ok, I’m going to call the camp director, I’m going to tell them you’re freaked out, I’m going to call the director, and I’m going to make sure I’ll stay with you the whole day…’ When we mobilize to fix it all, what it accidentally communicates to our kids is, I don’t actually trust that you can handle this – I have to go solve everything for you.” “All of this said, it’s important to add that even if you make all of these mistakes - criticize, minimize, mobilize - that doesn’t mean your child won’t not grow up to be a great human being," Dr. Payne Bryson assured, "because the most important thing is that our kids will know we love them. We can’t get too neurotic about every little thing that comes out of our mouths. And what we get wrong related to our kids’ fears on one occasion, we can improve and repair on other occasions." Our Guest: Dr. Tina Payne Bryson Dr. Tina Payne Bryson is the author of the Bottom Line for Baby and co-author (with Dan Siegel) of two New York Times Best Sellers—The Whole-Brain Child and No-Drama Discipline—each of which has been translated into over fifty languages, as well as The Yes Brain and The Power of Showing Up. She is the Founder and Executive Director of The Center for Connection, a multidisciplinary clinical practice in Southern California. Dr. Bryson keynotes conferences and conducts workshops for parents, educators, and clinicians all over the world, and she frequently consults with schools, businesses, and other organizations. An LCSW, Tina is a graduate of Baylor University with a Ph.D. from USC. The most important part of her bio, she says, is that she’s a mom to her three boys. You can learn more about Dr. Bryson at TinaBryson.com. Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a nonprofit organization that helps gay men who are interested in becoming fathers through surrogacy navigate the sea of information and overcome the financial barrier. In this episode, Ron Poole-Dayan, the executive director of the organization, discusses surrogacy destination and why does the organization advocates for surrogacy in the U.S. and Canada. MHB Guidelines for Safe, Legal and Ethical Surrogacy Abroad Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Dr. Tina Payne BrysonOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: Instagram Post of Jesse, a gay dad from ColoradoThe Power of Showing Up BookCOVID pandemic made people meaner, lazier: StudyEthical SurrogacyCharmed :) Connect with Us:

A Parents' Guide to Roblox: more than half of America’s kids play Roblox, and let’s face it: most of us parents have no idea what they actually do there. In this episode, we dive into the popular gaming platform, what is it, what are they doing there, and most important: is it safe? We interviewed a gay dad who plays Roblox with his kids, the platform’s Community Director for Safety and Civility, and for the first time in the podcast’s history: we interview our kids! Roblox, the popular gaming platform, seems to be a growing phenomenon that is becoming a childhood milestone, just like Halloween obsession or the Baby Shark song. “It is a platform where people can create anything they can imagine,” explains Laura Higgins, Director for Community Safety and Civility at Roblox. “We actually started as a physics classroom app and it was a way that young people can carry out experiments that they can’t do in the real world, for example, what happens if you drop a car off a tall building. So it started as a classroom, but what we started seeing is what kids were doing outside of the classroom. They were using their imagination to come up with that wacky creations.” Higgins says that the company encourages that parents be involved as much as possible especially when setting up the kids’ accounts. The tips she shared on our podcast in order to ensure the safety of the kids include using the kids’ actual birth date (to make sure the age-appropriate restrictions will be part of the child’s profile), choosing a restricted games list, turn chat on/off, choose who they can talk to and create a (not-obvious) pin number control. “Safety is definitely our core at Roblox,” Higgins says. “We are a platform designed around kids and for kids, so that safety was built right from day one. We don’t allow any sharing of identifiable information, so they cannot share their telephone number, their address, their real names – all of those sorts of things it’s banned.” “We have very strict chat filtering that runs across the platform, in fact, we use several filtering systems, it’s a mix of human moderation and machine and AI technologies that constantly run across the platform. Until very recently you couldn’t type any numbers. Our technology has moved on and we’ve become much more savvy about managing these things, we use contextual moderation, so for example if I work on a pizza place, it will be able to detect if you say ‘I sold three pizzas today,’ as opposed to ‘I’m 3-years-old’.” In the episode, we also heard from Jeremy, a gay dad in Minnesota, who plays with his kids regularly on the platform. Jeremy shares custody of his 3 boys, ages 11, 10, 8. He works for a school district as the Finance Director. Jeremy has been with his boyfriend for 2 years and, he is the Band Teacher at the school his kids go to. They like playing Minecraft and Roblox as a family. "My partner and I were kinda dragged into 'we want you to play with us'," Jeremy tells us. "I am not a big gamer, so it was new for me, but I did help them set up their accounts." “It’s scary when you first start," the dad of three concluded, "it’s so overwhelming and I was like ‘I don’t know what to do, you’re going to have to show me'." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tThEJBBS_X4 Our Guest: Laura Higgins Laura Higgins, Roblox Director of Community Safety and Civility, Roblox Laura Higgins is Director of Community Safety and Civility at Roblox with more than two decades of experience building proven safeguarding, online safety and civility programs. Roblox’s groundbreaking digital civility initiative is focused on providing the community with the skills needed to create positive online experiences in partnership with the world’s leading safety and industry organizations that drive meaningful change. Civility online is a new concept that’s based on existing principles—that everybody has a part to play in making the digital world a better place. In her previous role with the UK Safer Internet Centre (part of the “Better Internet for Kids” project funded by the European Commission), Laura founded several award-winning services including the Professionals Online Safety Helpline and the world’s first helpline dedicated to supporting victims of image based abuse. Laura has worked with the biggest names in tech sitting on Twitter and Snapchat’s advisory boards. She has spoken on digital safety topics across the globe and regularly appears in the media sharing her expertise with industry experts, parents and kids. Guest Host: Daniel Vandenbark Daniel is a single dad, co-parenting with his former partner to raise their son, Torbett, who came to them through open-adoption. Daniel founded his design firm over twenty years ago, designing custom interiors and waterwise landscapes for clients in SoCal and through the US. Daniel is an outdoor enthusiast and enjoys sharing time backpacking, snowboarding and dadventuring with Torbett. Men Having Babies Corner Men Having Babies is a community, nonprofit organization that helps gay men become fathers via surrogacy with education and financial assistance. In each episode this season, the team of Men Having Babies (MHB) will educate us on aspects of having kids through ethical surrogacy. This fall, Men Having Babies is having two more conferences for gay men who want to learn more about building a family through surrogacy – in what they call ‘surrogacy bootcamp.’ They will be in Chicago (October 14-15) and New York City (November 11-13). Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest Host: Daniel VandenbarkGuests: Jeremy Wilcox, Laura Higgins (Roblox), our kids! Adam and Ben, and Torbett.Opening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: Roblox introduces mandatory age-gated account tiers Parents Safety and Moderation Safety and Civility at Roblox Safety and Civility Page [Episode Extension] Therapist Tyler Tooley Utilizes Roblox, Mindcraft to Help Children Through Anxieties Connect with Us Daddy Squared on Instagram Daddy Squared on Facebook Join our Facebook group! Work with Yan!

Throughout the season we've interviewed gay men from countries around the world, but all of these countries could easily be argued incredibly supportive of the LGBT community and of LGBT parenting. Not so much the three countries that we are focusing on in this episode The Not-Such-Great-Places-to-be-a-Gay-Dad Episode This season, Daddy Squared has (virtually) flown from country-to-country around the world talking to gay dads and experts about what it’s like to be gay and become a gay dad in places like Ireland, South Africa, Argentina, etc., etc. The countries we’ve covered have had all kinds of important variations in LGBTQ rights, parental rights, laws regarding Surrogacy and IVF, etc., etc. But one thing they all had in common was a basic belief in the right of a gay man to live openly – and have a family. For our season finale, we decided it was time to deal with the rest of the world: the many, many countries where not only is being a gay dad impossible, but homosexuality itself is forbidden or persecuted. For obvious reasons, our guests on this episode could not come to us live from the countries of their origin. Instead, X, Y and Alex joined us representing Taiwan & China, Russia, and Iran, respectively. It’s a fascinating and meaningful talk. And yes, we know: Way to end the season on a high note! But actually, having just listened to the episode ourselves, we’ve realized that the perseverance held by members of the LGBTQ community everywhere in the world is nothing short of miraculous – and ultimately, we shall overcome! China LGBT people in China face legal and social challenges that are not experienced by non-LGBT residents. According to the Constitution of China, same-sex couples are unable to marry or adopt, and households headed by such couples are ineligible for the same legal protections available to heterosexual couples. No anti-discrimination protections exist for LGBT people. Iran Iran's government structure is parliamentary. It has a "democratic" layer with a tripartite separation of powers, above which looms the "theocratic" layer with the Guardian Council and Supreme Leader. LGBT people in the Iran face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. While people can legally change their assigned sex, sexual activity between members of the same sex is illegal and can be punishable by up to death. Bottom line: it's scary to be gay in Iran. Russia Russia has long held strongly negative views regarding homosexuality. Although same-sex sexual activity between consenting adults in private was decriminalized in 1993, homosexuality is disapproved of by most Russians, and same-sex couples and households headed by same-sex couples are ineligible for the legal protections. Our Guests Eddie Chen, an entrepreneur born and raised in Taiwan, moved to the United States in 1990 at the age of 16. He graduated from USC then founded a few businesses including a wearable heated clothing company called VENTURE HEAT. With ongoing business in China and some family members in Taiwan; he travels back to Asia frequently. This allows him to stay connected to his heritage and familiar with current social climate. He currently resides in Orange County, California with his loving husband of 5+ years. They welcomed their first son in 2019 through surrogacy in California and they have a second son due in 2021. Dimitry Kostantinov moved to Los Angeles from Russia, and raises his 14-months son, born through surrogacy, with his husband, Casey. Life for LGBT People in China, Iran and Russia: Related Articles Man forced to flee Iran for being gay after police raided family home (London News, January 25, 2022)Iran’s new government leaves country’s LGBTQ community hopeless (LA Blade, August 16, 2021)WeChat in China shuts down LGBTQ-related accounts (LA Times, July 7, 2021)'All Discrimination Comes from Ignorance.' Meet the Chinese Ex-Cop Creating a Global LGBTQ+ Community (Time, June 24, 2021)'We're not hiding': Gay and lesbian Russians say a cultural shift is underway (NBC News, June 21, 2021)Gay Iranian man allegedly killed by family days before seeking asylum (ABC News, May 14, 2021) Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuests: Dimitry Kostantinov, Eddie ChenOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: Hungary: Hungarians speak out on anti-LGBT+ law as EU pushes for its repeal (July 7, 2021) Listen to previous seasons of Daddy SquaredJoin our Facebook groupConnect with us on Instagram

Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast looks at gay rights and fatherhood options in Brazil. We talked with Brazilian Senator and gay dad Fabiano Contarato, to get a taste of what it’s like being a gay dad in Brazil, and researched options for Brazilian gay men who want to become dads. Brazil has a constitution that guarantees equal rights under the law for all Brazilians regardless of background or sexual identity. "But in actuality," says Senator Fabiano Contarato, "it is a country that unfortunately is racist, sexist, classist and homophobic. Especially in terms of the nuclear families, I would say that in terms of the prejudices that we experience as gay men and other LGBTQIA+ it is our nuclear families that eventually has the most prejudice against our kind." "I will say that within Brazilian society, if a gay man is able to gain better position of power, we do end up gaining more rights within society," The Senator adds. It wasn't until 2019 that the Brazilian supreme court gave equal standing status to homophobic attacks at the same plain of race-based attacks. And it wasn't until 2020 that the federal tribunal in Brazil allowed for LGBTQA people to donate blood. "The rights of LGBTQA people in Brazil were not gained through the normal means of legislation," says Senator Contarato, "but through the supreme court where we would have to fight for the rights." Fabiano Contarato is currently married and has two children through adoption. As the first ever LGBT senator elected, he contributes a lot to the visibility of LGBT people in Brazil in general, and same-sex parents in particular. "Despite all the prejudice I was able to work at the police force and as a law professor," he says. "I was able to be elected as Senator and have more votes than the current governor." Our Guest: Fabiano Contarato Fabiano Contarato is the first openly LGBT person to be elected for the Brazilian Senate. He was the most voted candidate for the Brazilian Senate in the state of Espírito Santo during the 2018 Brazilian general election, with over one million votes. He's a Brazilian law professor, a former police chief, he lives with his husband and two adopted children. Ouça a entrevista completa e não editada com o senador Fabiano Contarato em português. No estúdio em Los Angeles estão pais gays e o casal Yan e Alex, com o tradutor para o português Mario Guevara-Martinez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPmLtLwRefc Adoption for Gay Men in Brazil Adoption is legal in Brazil following a supreme court decision in 2010. The procedure is relatively simple, and begins with submitting an application for qualifying for adoption at the Children's and Youth Court of the city where the gay single or couple resides. They then present an initial petition containing: complete qualification, family data, certified copies of birth or marriage certificate or statement relating to the period of common-law marriage, copies of RG and CPF, proof of income and residence, certificate of physical and mental health, criminal record certificate and civil distribution clearance certificate. The maximum period for completing the qualification for adoption is 120 days, which can be extended for an equal period. Read more about adoption in Brazil (Portuguese) Surrogacy for Gay Men in Brazil Commercial surrogacy is not allowed in Brazil, as the Constitution prohibits the commercialization of organs and tissues. However, since there is no specific law expressly prohibiting such a reproductive technique, surrogacy may be performed altruistically. The Surrogate must be a family member of the first, second, third, or fourth degree of one of the intended parents – and can’t be over 50 years old.Similarly to the UK – the surrogate has parental rights, and so does her husband – and this is where problems can occur. As far as going overseas for surrogacy -- there's no problem bring the baby back to Brazil. A birth certificate from the country of birth with both parents written as parents grants both parents legal rights for the child in Brazil as well. Co-Parenting Co-parenting is also stated by courts, and since 2014 it can be given to three people. Men Having Babies Understanding the relationship with your surrogate should be, could be, will be--is important. You can find out what the relationship that your surrogate wants by talking to her and being upfront. Before you start it, before you get the medical screening and certainly before you start your journey you have to figure out what's important to you, what relationship you want and what sort of interaction with your surrogate you want throughout the journey, and when you talk to your potential surrogate see what she wants. Men Having Babies Webinar: You and Your Surrogate Gay Icon: Paulo Gustavo Gustavo was a Brazilian actor, comedian, director, screenwriter, and a TV host. Coming out as gay in adolescence, in 2015, he married dermatologist Thales Bretas. Their twin boys were born via surrogacy in 2019. In May 2021 Gustavo died following complications of COVID-19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc8Vscl2K7I Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Fabiano ContaratoTranslator: Mario Guevara-MartinezOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: Blue's Clues - Pride segment Listen to previous seasons of Daddy SquaredJoin our Facebook groupConnect with us on Instagram

Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast looks at gay rights and fatherhood options in Australia. We talked with Equality Australia founder and gay dad Tom Snow to get a taste of what it’s like being a gay dad in Australia, and researched options for gay men who want to become dads. Gay dad Tom Snow was a key person in Australia's Marriage Equality campaign. Though the Australian campaign was fueled by the success in Ireland and in the United States, in the interview on our podcast Tom explained the key difference between Australia and those countries. "In Ireland the biggest message around marriage equality was about equality," Snow explained. "In the U.S. there were a few things that were use but freedom was a big one, equality and rights were also big in the states. But when we message-tested those in Australia, the biggest thing that Australians get is fairness. And what we realized is that people just saw it as not fair that same sex couples were not able to get married. They could see the unfairness of it, and they were like 'that's not decent' that there's a group of people that are not treated the same." Winning marriage was important for the country, however, Snow told Daddy Squared it wasn't quite important for parenting, as gay men could have kids, even before marriage, in a few different ways. "Surrogacy, adoption and co-parenting are probably the big three," he says, "historically many gay men and lesbian women did it through co-parenting. The good news in Australia is that adoption is reasonably equal in the law, in that case it's reasonably equal for gays and lesbians. We do have some issues that some of the adoption agencies that are religious-based, discriminate against our community and continue to do so." "Surrogacy is harder for gay men in Australia, there might be a family friend or a family member who might carry a baby for a gay male couple. That's difficult [to find a surrogate] so many gay men do go overseas." A dad of a twin 10-year-olds and a 6-year-old through surrogacy, Snow shared his own story of parenthood. "Never is everything under control," he laughs, "but it's the most fun experience, every day is just a riot of fun. I say this to everyone looking at being a parent, it's a lot harder than I ever expected it to be, but it's also a lot better than I ever expected it to be. It is a complete change in your life." Adoption for Gay Dads in Australia Currently in Australia, laws around adoption and fostering by LGBT people differ by state/territory. The first step for prospective parents is to research which type of adoption or permanent care is possible in your state or territory. There are three types of adoption in Australia: domestic adoption (local and from out of home care), inter-country adoption, or permanent care and foster care. Helpful information about adoption in general and by-state in Australia can be found on adoptchange.org.au It's important to state that religious-based foster care agencies may appeal to legal provisions allowing them to refuse to assess LGBT applicants. Full information sheet on adoption and foster care in Australia by Australian Psychology Society (APS) can be found here. Surrogacy for Gay Dads in Australia Surrogacy in Australia is based on state-by-state laws. Western Australia, for example, only allows single women and heterosexual couples to engage in surrogacy. There are different rules, and generally the laws are you can have altruistic surrogacy so you can pay for costs but you can't pay for someone to undertake surrogacy for you. A typical surrogacy journey within Australia costs around $70,000 AUD. Most of these costs are the costs of IVF. Cost of surrogacy in the U.S. can reach up to $200,000 AUD. More info about surrogacy for gay men in Australia can be found here Co-Parenting for Gay Men in Australia Currently, co-parenting is still largest avenue for gay men to become parents (surrogacy is catching up fast though). Historically, co-parenting cases ended up in court in Australia due to scam or other problematic issues that stem from not really knowing the person you get into co-parenting with. It is highly recommended to look for co-parent through friends, word of mouth, rather than on internet searches. In general, law in all states say that all sperm donors must be known and so dads can decide the level of involvement they would like to have in their kids' lives and state it in their co-parenting agreement. Co-Parenting Agreements Rodney Chiang-Cruise, one of the Admins in Gay Dads Australia Facebook group recommends the co-parenting agreement to become a living document. "Revisit the contract a year later and see what has worked and what didn't really work," he advises. "Also, make sure to spend the first years build the family structure. Focus in the first two years on building the relationship with your co-parents rather than dividing the time of the baby. Spend time with your co-parent daily. Remember, it's not about ownership of the child - it's about building and raising a family." A dad on Gay Dads Australia group, who co-parent a 9-year-old and a 6-year-old with lesbian moms advises to draw everything up legally, even if it feels a bit awkward at the beginning, and really discuss not only what each parents role will be in the child’s life but what that roll actually means and involves for each person. "In our case, we learned that my partner and I had a very different idea of an 'active father' role involves compared to the mums ideas of that role," he says. "Things got a bit difficult navigating those differences for a few years but we are all now in a really amazing place with two awesome kids." Men Having Babies In several countries that are not allow surrogacy to the same extent as in the United States, there is a feeling that for the sake of the surrogate surrogacy should be uncompensated, as well as that the surrogate should have more rights to protect them, including, supposedly, the right to keep the child of the intended parents. The assumption is that the surrogate will appreciate that she will get to decide the fate of the baby she's carrying. The reality is that surrogates do not ask for this supposed right. More about surrogate's stigma and stereotypesMen Having Babies ethical framework for ethical surrogacy for intended parentsAlso, check out MHB's video archive on ethical surrogacy and legal clarity Our Guest: Tom Snow Tom Snow is Chair of Equality Australia, and was a Co-Chair and Founder of the Equality Campaign, which led the successful Yes vote in the Australian Marriage Law Postal Survey and saw in the successful legislative change for marriage equality. Tom is an accidental activist. When his family stood in front of a rainbow coloured Canberra Airport in August 2015, he was thrust into being one of the leaders of the marriage equality campaign. Through his business career, Tom has played a range of directorship roles, including being a director at Perth Airport, Canberra Airport, the Port of Adelaide, Bankstown Airport, Peninsula Link, Etihad Stadium and the Australian Science Festival. He was also Chair of the Canberra Convention Bureau. He is a Rhodes Scholar, and is a proud father of three kids. Organizations Gay Dads Australia (also check out their Facebook Group) Rainbow Families Gay Dads in Australia: Related Articles and News The price of Australia’s ‘ethical’ surrogacy laws (ABC News / March 21, 2026) Australian Gay Dads Share Foster to Adoption Story (January 14, 2023) As a single, gay man, I refused to forget fatherhood (SBS News / April 20, 2022) Single Aussie gay man makes history with the birth of his own baby boy: 'It's a love like I've never experienced before' (Daily Mail / April 5, 2022) Student Volunteer Army founder Sam Johnson and husband searching for surrogate to start family (Stuff, March 5, 2022) How surrogacy allowed a single man to keep hold of his fatherhood dream (The Age, December 5, 2021) Recognising Children of Same-Sex Couples (by Owen Hodge Lawyers, 2020) From foster to 'forever' parents: One gay couple's path to adoption (SBS News, 2018) Shattering the Co-Parenting Dream (Star Observer, 2015) Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Jesse Brune-Horan, Active Love MinistriesOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode: A Supreme Court Case Poses a Threat to L.G.B.T.Q. Foster Kids (The New York Time, June 5, 2021) Me, My Therapist and Kylie Minogue (Yan's op-ed in HuffPost) Tom's choice for Australian gay icons: Ian Thorpe and Magda Szubanski Listen to previous seasons of Daddy SquaredJoin our Facebook groupConnect with us on Instagram

Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast looks at gay rights and fatherhood options in the UK. We talked with Brit actor Charlie Condou to get a taste of what it’s like being a gay dad in the UK, and researched options for gay men who want to become dads. The number of gay dads in the UK is increasing. Many gay men are exploring parenting options, and to make things easier, Alex and Yan have called for the help of actor Charlie Condou who has been outspoken about his life as a gay man and as a parent. "Things are certainly better than they were when I was a young man," actor Charlie Condou tells us in this episode, "and you see it with the younger generation of the LGBTQ community. They walk around holding hands, which is something that we certainly never would have done. Everything seems to be much more acceptable. Gay relationships as a whole, the fact that we can get married now, and the fact that we can have children." "It's relatively new, I suppose. I mean, I think that gay women have been getting on with having kids for a long time, because, you know, it's easier for them to have children. Gay men have never really been a part of the conversation for a long time and I think, if you were a gay man and you wanted to be a parent, you either got married to a woman and went down that lie, or you parked it and you thought ok this is something that I have to put out of my mind and put out of my life because it's not an option for me." "We couldn't adopt, surrogacy wasn't a thing, and we're a very different place now, and younger gay men today, when they get into a relationship and even if they don't want to have kids, it's still part of the conversation, they'll still have that discussion." During our interview, Condou described his inner thoughts, from the idea of wanting to become a dad, to figuring out how to do it as a gay men in the UK at the time. "As I got older and realized that I want to do it sooner rather than later," he said, "surrogacy wasn't a thing then, gay men couldn't adopt then, certainly single gay men couldn't adopt. So co-parenting was something that, it wasn't even a word, but it seemed like the best option to me. I'm going to have to find a female friend who wants to have children with me. Of course in my naive early 20s mind I thought 'yeah that'll be fine, somebody will want to have a kid with me, you know, who wouldn't?!' I did not realize that a lot of straight females-- it's not their first choice." "I started to have this conversation with girl friends of mine, just in a very vague kind of 'what if'? And I had one friend in particular, Cathrine, who said, 'yeah, I wanna be a parent, and if I'm still single at 40 then, yeah. Let's get on with it.' It was a bit of a joke, because why would she still be single at 40, but she was." Gay Dads in the UK: Co-Parenting "We sat down and said, ok, let's talk about it then. How would it work? We didn't know anybody who did anything like this at all. It was a completely new territory. So we talked about every eventuality, all the possible scenarios. What happens if someone moves to Australia? I don't know why even, but we talked about it. And I knew very quickly that if I was going to co-parent, it had to be 50-50. I didn't want to be a dad that is just around every other weekend." At some point during the conversation with Catherine, Charlie met his now-husband, Cameron. Early in their relationship Charlie had told him about his plans with Catherine and Cameron was on board. "And then it became the three of us, and the conversation had to change a little, because how does that work, with three parents? What will the three of us bring? How do we navigate that?" The Three of Us - Charlie's Column in The Guardian "It works really well," Charlie says, "We have the kids completely half and half, and that's the way that it's worked for a long time. Catherine has them on a Monday and a Tuesday, we have them on a Wednesday and a Thursday and we alternate weekends. And that works really well, because it means that we'll get time off, which means that we are not exhausted and strung out, and we don't get snappy and ratty with them, because we never get to the point where we think 'Oh my god I just need a break', because we get a break, and Catherine gets a break, and the kids get a break from us." "I'm not saying it's ideal and it's an ideal situation, of course. There are pros and cons, but I genuinely believe that the pros of our situation outweigh the cons." While many gay men co-parent with female friends they have already known, there are co-parenting dedicated websites where you can set yourself up with a profile with the intend to find co-parents. Adoption and Foster Care for Gay Dads in the UK Adoption stages in the UK: Enquiry Stage Stage 1 - check you and your home (2 months) Stage 2 - assessment meetings and training (4 months) Approval (panel) (about a week) Family Finding - matching you with a child (6-12 months) Placement Over 65,000 children across the UK. Every year thousands of foster families needed. Learn more about becoming a foster family in the UK. Also, The Fostering Network is a non-profit organization that brings together everyone who is involved in the lives of fostered children. Surrogacy for Gay Men in the UK Surrogacy agreements are not enforceable by UK law and surrogates are the child’s legal parent at birth. If the surrogate is married or in a civil partnership, their spouse or civil partner are the child’s second parent. Legal parenthood can be transferred by parental order or adoption after the child is born. Surrogacy: legal rights of parents and surrogates (gov.uk) Men Having Babies Similar to South Africa, only local residents can benefit from surrogacy domestically; and similarly to Canada, surrogates are not formally compensated. A lot of these elements of the British system are currently under review. There is a law commission that is getting a lot of feedback, but as it is now, and because of these limitations, many gay parents choose to leave the United Kingdom and pursue surrogacy elsewhere. Check out Men Having Babies website Sign up for the Men Having Babies upcoming conference in Europe Our Guest: Charlie Condou Charlie Condou is a British actor, columnist and LGBT rights activist. Condou secured a series of television movie roles during his teenage years in the 1980s. He later had guest roles in British television series during the 1990s. In 2007, Condou gained wider recognition when he took on the role of sonographer Marcus Dent in the soap opera Coronation Street, which he remained in until 2014. He also played the role of Ben Sherwood in the medical drama Holby City. Condou has used his fame as a platform to promote LGBT rights, becoming a patron for charities and being an advocate for same-sex parenting. Organizations Stonewall's guide for gay dads Pink Parents Two Dads UK NHS website Gay Dads in the UK: Related Articles and News U.K. Couple Welcomes Baby Girl via Surrogate in the U.S. Now, They're Fighting to Be Legally Recognized as Her Parents (People / April 28, 2026) Intended parents should get legal status from birth, says British surrogacy review (The Guardian / March 29, 2023) Gay dad explains the simple truth of being a foster carer: ‘It’s hard, but I feel lucky’ (Gay Star News / March 7, 2022) Gay Scots couple say children have 'never questioned' having two dads (Daily Record / March 5, 2022) Men can do anything women can, so why shouldn't I have an IVF baby on my own? The single 56-year-old law lecturer who spent £200,000 to fulfil his dream of fatherhood (Daily Mail, March 4, 2022) How 'family' is being redefined for the modern world (BBC, February 21,2022) Gay cop and married dad of two opens up on LGBT life at Police Scotland (Daily Record, February 15, 2022) As a gay Asian man, I never thought I’d be a dad to two wonderful boys (Metro, October 7, 2021) Not all gay men want to adopt – don’t judge me for wanting my own kids (Metro, August 21, 2021) Two gay dads on the reality of starting a family through surrogacy (The Times, January 2021) Phillip Schofield announcement: How it feels when your partner comes out as gay (Coming out after having kids) (BBC News, February 2020) Phillip Schofield comes out as gay, saying on live TV Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuest: Charlie CondouOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode:My Problem with the Phrase Openly Gay (Charlie Condou, Attitude Magazine)Charlie's gay icon: Princess JuliaYan's gay icons: Sonia, Jennifer Saunders, Lisa Scott-LeeListen to previous seasons of Daddy SquaredJoin our Facebook groupConnect with us on Instagram

Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast looks at gay rights and fatherhood options in Germany. We talked with German stage actor and blogger Kevin Silvergieter (AKA "Papapi") to get a taste of what it's like being a gay dad in Germany, and researched options for gay men who want to become dads. Despite Berlin's reputation as one of the most gay-friendly cities in the world, it's surprising to know that Germany is not as tolerant for LGBT parenting as one might think. Not only is there a lack of visibility for gay dads in the media, gay men report discrimination in adoption and the general attitude towards them raising kids. "Still there are a few parts where I’m like ‘um, we live in Germany and it’s 2021 and are you kidding me?!'," our guest in this episode, famous blogger Kevin Silvergieter, tells us, "do I still have to deal with that as a gay man?" Until 2017 gay marriage wasn’t even legal in Germany. There was something like ‘written partnership by law.’ "With us not being able to marry we were not able to adopt kids as couples." Kevin explains. "We still have [discrimination] in quite a few areas of German law. For example, blood donation is not allowed for gay men because our behavior raises the risk of HIV, which is, of course, ridiculous. They did come up 5 years or so ago with a law that gay men can donate blood if they haven’t had sex for 12 months." With adoption, it's really rare for gay men to be selected, according to some testimonials, because of a strong preference by the authorities and the birth parents to give kids to heterosexual families. "I don’t want to call it discrimination but it’s kind of odd that we’re not good enough for adoption but the agencies will placed very troubled foster kids with us," Kevin says in the interview. Foster Care is definitely more common for gay men than adoption. "I know that there are a few gay couples who were closer by age more than my husband and I and they adopted 6 years ago," Kevin says. "They both have been a better match for the authorities than we have, so one of the dads adopted and then three years ago when the law changed the other one could adopt them as well. Also, overall, there are not many kids available for adoption. The ratio is 10 heterosexual parents waiting for every one kid, and on top of that one gay couple. And the biological parents can decide with the authorities together where to put the kids and most of them prefer to place their kids with heterosexual couples." Kevin and his husband were reluctant to go with the Foster Care route because of fears for growing close to a child only to have them taken away. He was surprised to find out that there was a 'permanent foster route,' where he can get a court document that affirms that the kids will stay with him. "In April 2014 I called Foster Care and asked for an interview to see if this option really doesn’t fit us or we just didn’t know enough," Kevin tells us. "I just thought that if we don’t hear it first-hand we can’t really rule it out. So we started, and then in September 2015, after a long, long road with lots of paperwork and talks with psychologists (a process which was really frustrating at the time, but which I now appreciate for the extreme care involved), our son moved in. Daddy Squared: The Gay Dads Podcast returns for season 4, Around the World, to capture gay dad options and rights in a post-pandemic world. In each episode, Alex and Yan, a married couple and fathers of five-year-old twins, talk with gay dads from a different country, discussing equal rights and options for gay men. Foster Care in Germany Foster Care is currently the main option for gay men. In recent research of types of parenting for gay men, it was found that 54% of families with gay dads were created through Foster Care. The main difference between Foster Care and Adoption is that parents or guardians with custody must be involved in important decisions made by the foster family. Because of these dependencies on external actors, a foster family becomes somewhat of a public family whose private life is overseen in institutional contexts. Foster parents have to learn to deal with this to a certain extent. More input on gays as foster parents. Adoption in Germany The issue of same-sex couples adopting children is full of conflict. Even today, many voices, especially in politics, are heard about not trusting gays to raise children. In 2013 Angela Merkel said that she was uncomfortable with the idea of ​​adoptions. “I'm unsure about the best interests of the child,” she said. In July 2015, the Berlin CDU rejected a majority of marriage for same-sex couples. To this day, Germany has made it very difficult for homosexual couples to adopt a child. Most of the domestic adoptions of gay fathers that we know are resulted from a previous foster relationship. In Germany, it is difficult for same-sex couples to start a family through adoption. That is why gay men increasingly choose the path of adoption abroad. The number of countries that are giving children to single men for adoption is currently very low. Multiple Parenthood Germany More and more gay fathers are trying to realize their desire to have children together with heterosexual or lesbian women in a multi-parent family. Several people come together here because they share their lives with children and want to take responsibility for them together. In addition to checking a possible fit, there are many uncertainties that need to be removed. This requires a differentiated exchange of ideas about upbringing, how to deal with possible conflicts as well as needs and claims in questions of closeness and contact with the child, as well as information on the legal situation. The legal situation of this multiple parent constellation is difficult, as there can only be two parents legally in Germany. For the mostly three to four expectant parents, the question always arises of where legal parenting should be mapped. As long as there is no legal framework in Germany that can represent a multiple parent constellation on an equal footing, such a family constellation always harbors legal risks beyond the personal challenges. All agreements under private law are based on the trust and honesty of those involved. Surrogacy in Germany Surrogacy is illegal in Germany and gay men who decide to have a biological kid have to go abroad to go through surrogacy journey, mostly to America. Our Guest: Kevin Silvergieter An actor and a blogger – in his blog, papapi.de, he gives insights into his family life with his husband and their two foster children. The blog received the 2017 "Special Award for Corporate Citizenship" of the parent Blogger Awards of the textile company Ernsting's Family. With a definitive lack of visibility for gay dads in the media, Silvergieter is one of the most known gay dads in Germany at the moment. Men Having Babies The pandemic has created people focusing their journey on a more specific geographic region and looking to avoid travel and unnecessary trips, tryong to be efficiant in time and keep things as close as possible. For a lot people it slowed down their journey or even put everything on hold or evaluating when it is absolutely necessary to be in a place and and when things can be done in a different way in a way that hasn’t been done before. Most commonly we see it when people want to ship their samples and not go to the IVF clinic in person. Organizations LSVD – the gay and lesbian associationfamilyship.org Gay Dads in Germany: Related Articles and News Zwei Väter für Susana und Luke (Der Tagesspiegel, August 26, 2019)On the Other Hand, Being Fathers is Great (German) (Der Tagesspiegel, 2016)Gay Couple Becomes First in Germany to Adopt Child (DW, 2017) Episode Credits Co-Hosts: Yan Dekel, Alex MaghenGuests: Kevin Silvergeiter, Lisa SchusterOpening Theme: Hercules & Love Affair, “Leonora” buy hereArticles Related to this episode:'American Song Contest' on screens in 2022Diggi-Loo Diggi-Ley - Herrey's (Yan's Eurovision Favorite)Diva - Dana International (Yan's Eurovision Favorite)Yan's Eurovision Corner on Instagram ReelsListen to previous seasons of Daddy SquaredJoin our Facebook groupConnect with us on Instagram