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Recent episodes
S4 Ep9 Sexual Diversity with Kent Webb
Jun 23, 2026
Unknown duration
S4 Ep8 Sexual Abuse Scandals with Kathleen Cotter-Cauley
Jun 9, 2026
Unknown duration
S4 Ep7 Politics with Dr. Robert L. Davis
May 26, 2026
Unknown duration
S4 Ep6 Religion with Matt Steele
May 12, 2026
Unknown duration
S4 Ep5 Sports with Amie Post
Apr 28, 2026
Unknown duration
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| Date | Episode | Description | Length | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/23/26 |  S4 Ep9 Sexual Diversity with Kent Webb | This episode discusses Bowen family systems theory and sexual diversity. Kent Webb joins to share his personal journey and research on the topic. The conversation explores how curiosity and open dialogue can encourage understanding and growth in relationships as well as in Bowen theory itself.Kent Webb works in both the organizational and mental health worlds with practices in each field. He is an executive coach and a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, who has obtained broad experience and education as both a chief executive officer and a mental health coach. Kent trained in the Postgraduate Program at the Bowen Center and became a faculty member there in 2020. His publications include a chapter in Chronic Illness and Death in the Family, two articles in Family Systems Forum on Sexual Diversity and a chapter in The Emotional Side of Organizations: Applications of Bowen Theory.Resources:Kent Webb: Chronic Illness and Death in the Family (Ed. Titleman & Reed)Kent Webb: The Emotional Side of Organizations: Applications of Bowen TheoryKent Webb: Family Systems Forum articlesFrans de Waal: Different: Gender Thru the Eyes of a PrimatologistBowen Center Spring 2025 conference link: Sexual Diversity & the Human FamilyNathan Lents linksInterested in the Submitting an Abstract for the International Conference? Email: conferences@livingsystems.caLiving Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #SexualDiveristy #Gender #GenderDiversity #LGBTQ+ #Curiosity #Conversation #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast | — | ||||||
| 6/9/26 | S4 Ep8 Sexual Abuse Scandals with Kathleen Cotter-Cauley | Today’s episode looks at how Bowen family systems theory is useful in the complex area of sexual abuse scandals. Kathleen Cotter-Cauley joins this episode to discuss the many groups involved in scandals and how an eye on the family and relationship systems is a lens that can add clarity and understanding to this complicated and relevant topic.Kathleen Cotter-Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist who has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s been a faculty member of the Bowen Center since 2012, was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network, and has been on the faculty of Extraordinary Leadership and Systems Leadership seminars. Some of her community service efforts include working with guide dogs and being part of review boards for sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church.Resources:Dr. Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Walter Smith: Child Abuse in Family Emotional Process, Family Systems Journal 5.2Interested in submitting an abstract for the 2027 International Conference? Email: conferences@livingsystems.caLiving Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Abuse #SexualAbuse #Scandals #Secrets #WomenTalking #SpotlightMovie #Epstein #EpsteinFiles #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 5/26/26 | S4 Ep7 Politics with Dr. Robert L. Davis | In this episode of Elevator Systems, we explore politics and Bowen family systems theory. Dr. Robert L. Davis is our guest as we zoom out across time and zoom in to the influence on family life, as well as the challenge of maintaining objectivity in politically polarized environments.Dr. Robert L. Davis is founder and Executive Director of Seasoned With Grace UnBoxed, a nonprofit committed to helping develop strong authentic leaders, as well bringing communities together to develop solutions around public safety and policing. Seasoned With Grace UnBoxed leads two community-centered projects: The Task Force to Reimagine Policing and Public Safety and Transforming Our Communities Alliance (TOCA). He has over 20 years of experience as a senior pastor, Family Life Educator, hospice chaplain, bereavement coordinator, and community leader.Resources:Dr. Robert L Davis, Transforming Our Communities Alliance (TOCA) Dr. Bowen, 1970 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives ProjectKatherine Gratwick Baker: Emotional Process in Society, Family Systems Journal, 13.1 W.E.B. Du Bois “Why I Won’t Be Voting in 1956” - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr, “Why I Oppose the Vietnam War” Family Matters, “Political Reactivity and Self Regulation”Family Matters “Making Decisions in an Emotionally Aroused Social Environment”Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #Politics #Polarization #Democratic #Republican #History #Leadership #Differences #Curiosity #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 5/12/26 | S4 Ep6 Religion with Matt Steele | Today’s episode looks at religion and relationships. We are diving into a hot topic and seeing how Bowen family systems theory is a resource to thinking about and observing religion and how people function around religion - within and between religious communities. Matt Steele joins us to share his thinking and experience on the topic. Matt Steele is a Bowen theory coach and pastoral supervisor who grew up in Sydney Australia. Matt is also an ordained Anglican minister and worked in a range of church ministry roles before shifting into his current work. Matt is an associate faculty member at the Family Systems Institute in Australia and now works primarily with Christian pastors, leaders and communities through his business changeroom. Last year he delivered the keynote talks at the Family Systems Institute’s Systems In Ministry Symposium titled, The Emotional Ecosystem of Ministry: Navigating The Relationship Jungle Without Becoming a Predator Or Being Eaten Alive.Resources:changeroom: http://changeroom.au/FSI Ministry Symposium recording Dr. Bowen 1966 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives ProjectRabbi Edwin Friedman: Generation to Generation Derek Thompson articleLiving Systems programs: https://livingsystems.ca/Thriving in Ministry conference recording: https://www.thebowencenter.org/conferencesWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Religion #Faith #Belief #Doubt #Questions #SpiritualGrowth #Differences #LifeTogether #Congregations #Church #God #Christianity #FaithCommunity #Community #Friedman #Mindfulness #Values #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk | — | ||||||
| 4/28/26 | S4 Ep5 Sports with Amie Post | What does Bowen family systems theory have to say about sports? A surprising amount! Amie Post is on the podcast again to think about the emotional processes of sports and how athletic performance can mirror relationship dynamics. Learn more on how automatic reactions, anxiety, and differentiation of self influence both the game and real-world relationships, offering insights into personal growth and group functioning.Amie Post, MA, LCMFT is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership who began studying Bowen theory in 2001. She is the Interim Director of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family in Washington, DC, as well as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York. Previously Amie held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. Amie is also a wife, mother, and grandmother.Resources:Dr. Bowen 1973 letter, The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeKathleen Smith, The Anxious OverachieverFamily Systems Forum The Bowen CenterThe Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New YorkCenter for Family Consultation (Chicago), Midwest Symposium informationWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #HotTopics #Sports #Team #Player #Athlete #Teamwork #Game #TedLasso #TomBrady #Football #Basketball #Schoolsports #TeamSports #Workout #Practice #Growth #Coaching #Coach #MentalHealth #AthleticPerformance #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk | — | ||||||
| 4/14/26 | S4 Ep4 Family Expectations with Maybo Lui | This episode is a conversation about culture and family expectations from a Bowen family system theory perspective. Counsellor Maybo Lui joins us to discuss how cultural norms and environmental contexts influence family expectations, and how curiosity and flexibility are important to better understanding one’s own perspective as well as the family narrative. Maybo Lui, MS, RCC is a Registered Clinical Counsellor and faculty member at Living Systems Counselling. She works mainly with adults and couples navigating relationship challenges, anxiety, and life direction. She has been studying Bowen Theory since 2015 and enjoys making these ideas more accessible through visuals and storytelling. Having grown up in a Chinese immigrant family, she often reflects on how family roles and cultural expectations influence how people show up and relate to each other. Resources:Maybo Lui’s practice: www.couplesontheroad.com Dr Murray Bowen, Commitment to Principles: https://murraybowenarchives.org/boyd-book/chapter-5/Peggy Chan: Bowen Theory, Culture and Therapeutic Applications to Asian Families, Australia and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 2024.Kathleen Smith: Overfunctioning? Try Leaving Instructions for AliensCenter for Family Consultation (Chicago), Midwest Symposium informationWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes are be released every two weeks.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Culture #Family #Expectations #Differences #Communication #FamilyStories #Narrative #Flexibility #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 3/31/26 | S4 Ep3 Artificial Intelligence with Dr. Patrick Stinson | In our latest podcast, we explore how Bowen family systems theory is useful in navigating the world of artificial intelligence and how artificial intelligence may inform Bowen theory. In a world increasingly influenced by artificial intelligence, understanding how we relate to technology is more important than ever. How does one go from jumping in the deep end or panicked avoidance to thoughtful engagement? Dr. Patrick Stinson, Psy.D. combines 25 years as a software architect with clinical training in family systems. He is a Doctor of Psychology who studied at the California Institute of Integral Studies and has done pre and post-doctoral internships at The Bowen Center in Washington, DC. Patrick founded Alaska Family Systems, developed the Family Diagram App, and is currently an AI Engineer/Architect at Micron Technology. His 2020 dissertation on problems in psychological science provides the intellectual foundation for this workResources:Alaska Family SystemsFamily Diagram AppDr. Stinson's Open Source ProjectsWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #HotTopics #AI #ArtificialIntelligence #Technology #TechEthics #Ethics #Values #CriticalThinking #SocietyChange #IndustrialRevolution #Communication #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk | — | ||||||
| 3/17/26 | S4 Ep2 Mental Health with Dr. Samantha Stokesberry | Today’s episode explores the application of Bowen family systems theory in understanding mental health. Dr. Sam Stokesberry is our guest looking at the role of the counsellor in navigating their own emotional processes while supporting clients and differentiation of self in therapy. The discussion highlights a nuanced understanding of mental health that considers the interplay of individual and systemic factors.Samantha Stokesberry, PhD, LPC, NCC is a licensed professional counsellor, consultant, and speaker. Her professional path was shaped by four years living in South Africa, where playing professional soccer and coaching at a futsal academy led her into nonprofit work and her first real world exposure to the human trafficking industry. Today, she provides counselling to individuals and families in Texas and offers consultation and training services internationally. Sam specializes in working with trafficking survivors and their families, as well as families impacted by incest, sexual abuse, and chronic anxiety. Sam has trained at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and her doctoral research, which will be published this upcoming year, examines the relationships between differentiation of self, family unit functioning, and post-traumatic growth in adult female survivors of trafficking in the United States.Resources:Dr Sam Stokesberry’s practice Dr Michael Kerr - Bowen Theory’s SecretsDr Jenny Brown - Worry Cycle Podcast EpisodeKathleen Kerr - (1999). The Projection Process in Health Care Systems. Family Systems, 5(1).Stephanie Ferrera - (1999) What is help: a theoretical and personal perspective. Family Systems, 5(1).Stephanie Ferrera - The evolution of helping: from altruism to empathy to differentiation of self. In P. Titelman (Ed.) Differentiation of Self: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives. Want to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #Trauma #HumanTrafficking #Abuse #Recovery #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #DifferentiationDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 3/3/26 | S4 Ep1 Polarization with Dr. Barbara Laymon | To introduce Season 4, Dr. Barbara Laymon joins the podcast to discuss the complex dynamics of polarization and the interplay between individuality and togetherness as described in Bowen family systems theory. This episode explores what individuality and togetherness look like in relationships, the impact of societal pressures, and the importance of maturity in navigating differences. Examples, including the Bonhoeffer family, prairie dogs, COVID-19, and the Olympic Games, illustrate natural tendencies towards both cooperation and competition. The conversation offers practical takeaways for managing polarization in everyday life.Barbara Laymon, Ph.D. is a family systems consultant, a writer and a researcher. Her latest book, “All the Families of the Earth” is a fictional piece imagining family therapists at work behind the scenes of Biblical stories. Her most recent academic article involved a validated scale of congregational functioning, published in the Journal of Pastoral Psychology.Resources:Dr Barbara Laymon - All the Families of the Earth Dr Barbara Laymon - Measuring Congregational Functioning: A Scale Based Upon Bowen FamilySystems Theory, Journal of Pastoral PsychologyDr Ronald Richardson - Polarization and the Healthier ChurchDenmark “boxes" Commercial - All That We ShareWant to speak with a counsellor? Click hereBuy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd.Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #HotTopics #Communication #Individuality #Togetherness #Maturity #Bonhoeffer #COVID-19 #Evolution #Prairiedogs #Group #Groupdynamics #UsandThem #Competition #Cooperation #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 2/24/26 | S4 Preseason Episode: Mild/Medium/Hot Topics | Welcome to the Season 4 kickoff of Elevator Systems! In this episode, Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White share a sneak peek into the themes and topics being explored this season: the tough conversations and topics we often avoid! Join us as we dive into what makes a topic ‘hot’, how to engage more thoughtfully, and how Bowen family systems theory is helpful when tensions rise. Whether you're familiar with Bowen theory or new to these ideas, this season promises lots of ideas and engaging discussion on managing differences in relationships. Dixie Vandersluys is a Canadian Certified Counsellor based in Manitoba, Canada. She has undergraduate degrees in history and philosophy and a Master of Arts in Counseling from Providence Theological Seminary. Dixie enjoys seeing clients across Canada in her private practice. Dixie is also a faculty member at Living Systems and the creator and host of the Elevator Systems podcast. Katie White is a Marriage and Family Therapist registered in the US and Canada. She has been working with individuals, couples and families in schools, clinics, and non-profit centres for twenty years in the US, Australia and Canada. In 2010, Katie began focusing her practice using Bowen family systems theory and has attended the Post-Graduate Program at the Bowen Center. Katie is currently the Executive Director of Living Systems in Vancouver Canada. Katie teaches and supervises interns there, as well as managing a private practice.Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd. Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3Resources:Living Systems Counselling and TrainingElevator Systems at the Bowen Center Professional Lecture SeriesSubscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #HotTopics #Communication #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
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| 12/16/25 |  S3 Special Episode: The Family Life Cycle with Dr. Monica McGoldrick | Welcome to Elevator Systems! To end Season 3, we are interviewing Dr. Monica McGoldrick about her book The Expanded Family Life Cycle, the importance of systems thinking, and some of her memories with Dr. Murray Bowen.Monica McGoldrick, M.A., LCSW, Ph.D. (Honorary), is the Director of the Multicultural Family Institute in Highland Park, New Jersey and Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. Monica has written and spoken widely on topics such as culture, gender, the family life cycle, loss, and genograms. Three of her most notable books include: The Expanded Family Life Cycle, Ethnicity and Family Therapy, and Genograms: Assessment and Intervention.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Viewing life stages not just as individual but as interconnected with the family life cycle.Family diagrams (genograms) as a tool to understand family patterns and history and the usefulness of contextualizing individual experiences.Practical application of Bowen theory in therapy, how understanding family systems can aid in addressing current issues by exploring family relationships and dynamics.Considering the perspectives of both ancestors and future descendants, growing a broader understanding of one's place within the family lineage and the impact of one's actions on future generations.Recommended Resources:Monica McGoldrick website: https://multiculturalfamily.org/Monica McGoldrick and Betty Carter: The Expanded Family Life CycleLouise Aronson: ElderhoodPatrick Stinson: Family Diagram App Living Systems online workshops and counselling information: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Aging ConferenceEmail info@livingsystems.ca to purchase Aging conference recording - mention the podcast and receive a discount!Email dixie@livingsystems.ca for podcast questions or ideasThanks for listening to Season 3! Look for Season 4 of Elevator Systems in early 2026. Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #MonicaMcGoldrick #Family #SystemsThinking #FamilyLifeCycle #LifeCycle #StagesofLife #Genogram #FamilyDiagram #FamilyHistory #Ancestry #Lineage #History #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcastDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 11/4/25 |  S3 Ep18 Death with Priscilla Friesen | Welcome to Elevator Systems! For the last episode of our season on relationships across the lifespan, we will be looking at Bowen family systems theory and death. Priscilla Friesen joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about her personal and professional perspective.Priscilla Friesen is a family consultant who trained as a licensed clinical social worker. She was introduced to Bowen theory in 1976 and has spent years at the Bowen Center where her responsibilities have included: administrator of Biofeedback Programs, Director of the Postgraduate Training Programs, developing meetings, presenting and teaching. Priscilla has a special interest in biofeedback and neurofeedback and how physiological reactivity is regulated in relationships. Priscilla has also worked to make Dr. Bowen’s archival legacy available to the world, working with the Bowen family since his death in 1990 and serving on the board of directors of The Murray Bowen Archives Project today.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:The many relationships impacted by the death of a family member.Ways death is regulated within the family system.The variation in how families handle death provides valuable information about the family system.What an open system is and how it’s useful to a family around death.The adjustment of roles in the family after a death and the emergence of family leaders.Examples include: personal stories, estate planning and family discussions, the grief of Queen Victoria and her family life.This episode is for anyone interested in thinking about death from a systems perspective and anyone who works professionally with families that are facing death, grief and loss. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpDeath and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. ReedLiving Beyond Loss: Death in the Family, Ed. Froma Walsh & Monica McGoldrickFamily Matters The Relationships We Live In podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/episode-1-the-relationships-we-live-in/Thanks for listening to Season 3! A special episode to wrap up Season 3 will be released in the coming weeks! Look for Season 4 of Elevator Systems in early 2026. Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Death #Dying #Grief #Loss #Mourning #Funeral #Goodbye #Communication #Estates #Plans #Aging #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk | — | ||||||
| 10/28/25 |  S3 Ep17 Aging with Selden Dunbar Illick | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Selden Dunbar Illick joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White as they think through aging from a Bowen family systems perspective on today’s episode.Selden Dunbar Illick has been studying Bowen family systems theory for over 40 years. Selden founded the Princeton Family Center for Education in 1987 and currently serves on the Board. She is particularly interested in the application of Bowen theory to family functioning in the present as it connects to the multigenerational past and to future generations, especially the concept of emotional cutoff between the generations and degrees of unresolved emotional attachment. Today, at the age of 85, Selden continues to be a consultant to those interested in applying a Bowen family systems theory perspective to their lives.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Aging is a lifelong process that begins at birth.The usefulness of maintaining emotional connections across generations. The idea of over and under-functioning and thoughtfully providing and receiving support.Emotional cutoff and differentiation as key concepts in intergenerational relationships.The importance of lifelong learning and curiosity.Examples include: personal and clinical examples of families and aging, historical and cultural examples, and the show “Call the Midwife” This episode is for anyone who is aging, has aging family members, or works with individual and families facing the challenges and opportunities of aging. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Murray Bowen: A Systems View of the Aging Process (Family Systems Journal 13.1)Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpMonica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life CycleDeath and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. ReedDr. Bowen & Kathleen Yanks: The Basic Series #7 - Emotional CutoffLiving Systems Oct/25 conference Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Aging #Seniors #Elder #Elderly #BabyBoomers #EndofLife #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 10/21/25 |  S3 Ep16 Family Rifts with Lisa Moss | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode is about something that can happen at any stage of life: family rifts. Lisa Moss joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to discuss family rifts and Bowen family systems theory.Lisa Moss is a licensed clinical social worker with 15 years in private practice. Lisa completed the post graduate training program at the Center for Family Consultation in Evanston, Illinois, and joined the faculty in 2013. Lisa has studied family dynamics, marriage, sibling relationships, and human behavior from a Bowen theory perspective for nearly two decades. Before private practice, Lisa worked in hospitals and community agencies, gaining a wide view of how people and families function in different settings. She earned her MSW from Loyola University Chicago after completing her undergraduate studies at the University of Kansas, and has been a licensed clinical social worker since 1995.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Bowen theory’s concept of “cutoff” as well as the use of family rifts, estrangement, and distance in relationships.Cutoff may relieve immediate tension and it has short and long-term consequences for the individual and family.Estrangement can lead to difficulties in other relationships, including the transfer of emotional intensity from one relationship to another.Understanding family dynamics through systems thinking can help individuals to manage themselves in challenging relationships.Examples include: TV shows “The Bear”, “Everybody Loves Raymond” “Gilmore Girls” and what drove the story line in every 1990s sitcom, as well as clinical examples. This episode is for professionals and non-professionals alike, especially those thinking through the cost and benefits of breaking away from challenging relationships. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpDr. Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory’s SecretsCatherine M. Rakow: Making Sense of Human LifeAnne McKnight (Ed): Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical Practice Anne McKnight, Family Matters: Cutoff in Family RelationshipsAnne McKnight: “Two Perspectives on Family Rifts: The Concepts of Estrangement and Cut-off”, Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 45(2)Kathleen Smith: When You’re Too Close to the ProblemKathleen Smith: Living Outside of ConflictHasan Minhaj podcast with Gabor MatéElevator Systems, S1 Ep5 DistanceElevator Systems, S2 Ep6 Emotional CutoffNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caKey Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Anxiety #FamilyRifts #Cutoff #NoContact #Distance #Avoidance #Conflict #Separation #ToxicPeople #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 10/7/25 |  S3 Ep 14 Grandparenting with Amie Post | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today Amie Post joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about grandparenting from a Bowen family systems theory lens. Amie is the keynote speaker at Living Systems’ conference, Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity on October 17th and 18th. Details below.Amie Post, is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership. She serves as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York and previously held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. A dedicated student of Bowen Theory since 2001, Amie is a faculty member and board director at the Bowen Center in Washington, DC. She is also a wife, mother, and grandmother.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:The basic invitation of growing yourself up and being thoughtful about how to participate in family relationships with intentionality.The significance of observing multi-generational patterns and how they influence family relationships. How generational anxiety affects current family dynamics.Recognizing automatic expectations of grandparenting roles, doing “differently” than previous generations, and the usefulness of the "beliefs paper" exercise.The role of grandparents in providing wisdom and support without overstepping boundaries.The importance of meaningful relationships across generations and the resource of the family.Examples include: the movies Minari and Moana, childcare, family vacations, the various ways grandparents show up, and “treats at grandma’s house” with a personal example.This episode is not only for grandparents, but for adult children navigating parenting, grandparenting, and grandchildren, as well as clinicians working with families. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeDr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpRoberta M. Gilbert, M.D.: Connecting with Our ChildrenVictoria Harrison: The Belief Paper Assignment, Family Systems Forum, Fall 2022, Vol 24, No. 3Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Grandparenting #Grandparents #Grandchildren #Expectations Resources #Transitions #Goals #Generations #GenerationalPatterns #Anxiety #Aging #Parenting #Boundaries #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 9/30/25 |  S3 Ep 13 Empty Nest with John Bell | Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode will explore the empty nest stage from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Joining Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White today is John Bell.John Bell is an ordained United Methodist pastor who became interested in Bowen theory after hearing Peter Steinke say, "Good leadership rises about the anxiety of the group." He has spent the last 30 years putting these theoretical words to practice in congregational, family, and civic life. In addition to training and mentoring clergy, John works with non-profit leaders and organizations who have an interest in sustainable and adaptive practices. John and his wife Alison work and live near Chicago and have three grown children.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:The balance of dependency and independence in relationship, and the usefulness of parents working on maintaining a supportive yet independent relationship with adult children.How other family changes can influence functioning in the empty nest phase, such as divorce, remarriage, grandchildren, retirement and aging of parents.The transition to an empty nest can reveal the roles children played in the marriage and allows for a reevaluation of relationships.The importance of open communication and curiosity about each other's goals and aspirations.Examples include: analogy of a plate spinning routine, the family cellular plan, and variation among families navigating changes and independence.This episode is useful for families going through the empty nest stage or professionals wanting to think more systemically about this time of life. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpMonica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life CycleKathleen Smith, “Where’s All Your Energy Going?”Eric Brenn Plate Spinning on Ed Sullivan ShowLiving Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Transitions #Goals #Aspirations #Communication #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 9/23/25 |  S3 Ep 12 Launching with Erik Thompson | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode looks at how Bowen family systems theory is useful in thinking about the launching stage in a family. Erik Thompson joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White for a lively and informative discussion.Erik Thompson is a licensed leadership psychologist with three decades of experience helping families. He founded Thompson Leadership Development and is the Executive Director of the Vermont Center for Family Studies. He created a 6 episode podcast, “To Honor and Cherish”, designed to support couples in achieving a sparky and sustainable relationship. He also has an interview podcast called "LeaderSight" which captures the wisdom of some of Erik’s favorite founders and executives. Erik lives in Vermont with his wife and together they have launched four daughters. What You’ll Learn in This Episode:The importance of preparing for the launching phase of children throughout life and thinking through parenting mindsets early onExplore the concept of over-functioning and under-functioning in relationships and how over-helping may not be helpfulThe influence of culture on the specifics of the launching process and the variation that exists around norms and expectationsKeeping in mind the balance between connection and independence when children leave homeExamples include: personal stories of our families’ launches, summer camp, animal behaviour, and cultural variationThis episode is useful for parents at any stage, as well as professionals looking to support a family’s launching journey. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpMonica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life CycleDr. Daniel Papero: Developing A Systems Model for Family Assessment Vermont Center for Family Studies To Honor & Cherish: A Marriage PodcastLeaderSight PodcastNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Helpfulness #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 9/16/25 |  S3 Ep 11 Stepfamilies with Kathleen Cotter Cauley | Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode explores all of the complexities of when families combine in stepfamily relationships and how Bowen family systems theory can be a resource. Kathleen Cotter Cauley is back on the elevator, sharing her thoughts and experiences with Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White.Kathleen Cotter Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s a faculty member of the Bowen Center and was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network. Her thinking on triangles has been published in the book “Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Perspectives” by Peter Titelman. Kathleen has been married for almost 40 years, is a stepmom, a stepdaughter, and a grandma. What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Stepfamilies provide a unique opportunity to apply Bowen family systems theory to the complex dynamics Managing anxiety and working on self-differentiation are important in navigating stepfamily challengesUnderstanding the roles and expectations for each member of a stepfamily can help in managing transition and integration processesThe importance of curiosity about each family member's perspective and experienceThe useful framework of the family diagram and family history Examples include: personal experience and Hollywood examples including the movie “Stepmom”, the classic “wicked stepmother", and “The Brady Bunch”For anyone who is connected to a blended family. This episode offers a unique perspective and framework to think through and manage the complex dynamics of stepfamily life. Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life CycleRoberta Gilbert, “On Stepparenting” Family Systems Forum, Winter 2009, Vol 10 No4Dr. Daniel Papero: Developing A Systems Model for Family AssessmentKathleen Smith: The Cycle of Overfunctioning and DistanceFamily Matters: Navigating the Blended Family MazePeter Titelman, Ed: Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Theory PerspectivesNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Marriage #Remarriage #Divorce #Death #Widow #BlendedFamily #Stepfamily #Stepparent #Stepchild #FamilyChallenges #Challenges #Complexity #StepfamilyLife #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 9/9/25 |  S3 Ep10 Divorce with Dr. Carrie Collier | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode discusses divorce from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Dr. Carrie Collier is back thinking alongside hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White.Dr. Carrie Collier is a researcher, lecturer and family therapist specializing in Bowen family systems theory. She earned her PhD in Counsellor Education and has over 25 years of study and practice as a Licensed Professional Counsellor. She is on the faculty of The Bowen Center where she serves on the Board of Directors and was Director for two years. She published and validated a Family Unit Functioning Questionnaire used by therapists and researchers to gather information about families. Her most recent research on the language of nature in Murray Bowen's archival papers can be found in The Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:The usefulness of knowing family history and family patterns of functioning in marriage and divorce and how divorce can intensify patterns.Understanding one's role in the family and how divorce can be an opportunity for personal growth and redefining relationships within the family system.How the intensity of emotional fusion in a marriage can mirror the intensity of separation during divorce.The resource of a coach or therapist for individuals to think through their functioning in the family.Family leaders who maintain open communication, clear thinking and connections with both parties in a divorce can positively influence the broader family system.This episode is recommended for people and professionals who are navigating divorce.Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical PracticeMonica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life CycleRoberta Gilbert: Extraordinary RelationshipsEdward Beal: “Child-Focused Divorce” in Clinical Applications of Bowen Family Systems Theory (Ed. Peter Titelman)Family Matters: Divorce and Adult ChildrenDr. Carrie Collier: The Language of Nature in Murray Bowen’s WritingsNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Marriage #Remarriage #Divorce #BlendedFamily #Stepfamily #Partner #Conflict #Mediation #Separation #FamilyChallenges #Challenges #Complexity #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #Intensity #Patterns #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk | — | ||||||
| 8/26/25 |  S3 Ep 8 Parenting with Lauren Errington | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today Lauren Errington joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White as we think about parenting from a Bowen family systems perspective.Lauren Errington is the Executive Director of the Family Systems Institute in Sydney, Australia. She is also a Mental Health Social Worker and Clinical Family Therapist and Supervisor at the Family Systems Practice. She has written articles on the application of Bowen of theory in family therapy for multiple journals including co-authoring a soon to be published article for the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy. Lauren is married and a parent of three school-aged children.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:A parent’s effort to manage their own reactivity and provide kids developmental spaceDifferentiation of self, balancing individuality and togetherness, in parentingGetting clear on one’s own parenting beliefs and values amid the many perspectives and pressures in parenting todayHow viewing the family as a system can help parents manage challenges by understanding multi-generational patternsThe importance of humour and flexibility for parents to step back and see situations from a different perspectiveExamples: the humorous side of emotion coaching, the movie Parenthood, parenting in other species, and thinking through “taking off the training wheels” at different stages This episode is for parents, anyone who works with parents, and anyone who has parents! Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Parent Hope Project podcast and resourcesDr Jenny Brown: Confident ParentingRoberta Gilbert: Extraordinary RelationshipsAustralian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy (Vol 45, Issue 2), Special Issue: Bowen Family Systems TheoryWhite, Errington and Ruggier, “Promoting Parent Agency Across the World through the Parent Hope Project: The Difference Bowen Family Systems Theory Makes”, Journal of Marital and Family Therapy - in revision. New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Parenthood #Children #Kids #ChildDevelopment #Development #Help #Resources #Helpfulness #Individuality #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 8/12/25 |  S3 Ep6 Co-Workers with Jake Morrill | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today we are riding the elevator at our places of work. Jake Morrill joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to look at the many ways a Bowen family systems lens can be useful in the everyday, big and small situations and challenges of work life.Jake Morrill is the founder of Generation to Generation Leadership Coaching, which works with family businesses, congregations, and nonprofits. A longtime student of Bowen Theory, he’s on the faculty of the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family, where he’s one of the teachers of the course, “Differentiation at Work.” What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Differentiation of self at work and the usefulness of a "this is me, who are you?” postureOver and under-functioning and finding balance in your role in work dynamics Professionalism vs. pseudo self and leading with personal integrity in the midst of external pressuresThe importance of one-to-one communication and open, curious conversationsDefining work roles while considering personal values and family commitmentsReal life examples from middle management, consulting in challenging situations, and finding a work/life balanceFor anyone at any level in the work world. This episode will offer insight into how work systems function and how to manage you! Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice Jake Morrill: The Boundaries WorkbookLeslie Ann Fox & Katherine Gratwick-Baker: Leading a Business in Anxious TimesKathleen Smith: Everything Isn’t TerribleThe Anxious Achiever podcast: How Family Dynamics Play Out at WorkThe Anxious Achiever podcast: Is People Pleasing Hurting Your Career?Ruth Riley Sagar and Kathleen Klaus Wiseman, Ed: Understanding OrganizationsNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Work #Leadership #Management #Career #Boundaries #Balance #Triangles #Professional #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 8/5/25 |  S3 Ep5 Dating with Joe Berger | Welcome to Elevator Systems! Therapist Joe Berger joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to think about how Bowen family systems theory is useful in the dating world. Joe Berger is a therapist who works with individuals, couples, and families and previously worked for several years in community mental health. He received a Masters in Social Work from the University of Vermont in 2012, and has completed two years of postgraduate training at the Bowen Center in Washington. He is currently a faculty member at the Vermont Center for Family Studies.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:A Bowen theory approach to dating emphasizes focusing on oneself rather than the other personBeing clear about one's goals and guidelines in dating helps maintain authenticity and self-awarenessThe influence of societal and familial expectations on dating behaviours and relationship choicesKeeping a sense of fun and curiosity is important in the dating process, alongside serious considerationsExamples shared from personal experience, clinical cases, and the entertainment worldCounsellors, parents, and anyone navigating the dating world will find useful ideas for further thinking in this episode.Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself UpDr Ronald Richardson: Jane Austen’s Guide to Good RelationshipsDr Kathleen Smith: Everything Isn’t TerribleAvrum Nadigel: Learning to CommitAvrum Nadigel: It Takes More than LoveEsther Perel: Mating in Captivity New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Dating #Couples #AuthenticDating #RelationshipInsights #RelationshipGoals #Single #Love #Marriage #BeingLiked #Monogamy #Polyamory #Divorce #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 7/15/25 |  S3 Ep2 Friendship with Dr. Guillermo Cancio-Bello | Welcome to Elevator Systems! In Season 3 Episode 2 hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White are joined by special guest Dr. Guillermo Cancio-Bello to talk about the many aspects and facets of friendship from a Bowen family systems perspective.Dr. Guillermo Cancio-Bello is an Assistant Professor of Counseling at Barry University and integrates Bowen theory into his clinical, academic, research, and organizational work. His teaching and scholarship focus on systems thinking, leadership development, and the personal and professional growth of counsellors-in-training. Guillermo currently serves as President of the Florida Association of Marriage and Family Counseling (FAMFC) and is also a board member of the Florida Family Research Network, which works to advance the science of human behavior based on the natural systems theory of the family developed by Murray Bowen.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Differentiation (staying connected and separate) in friendshipThe role of sibling position in friend selectionFusion, triangles, and anxietyHow family of origin impacts adult relationshipsBowen theory insights on digital vs. in-person connectionsExamples from the biblical friendship of David & Jonathan to sending memes! For counsellors or anyone interested in understanding relationships better, this discussion will get you curious about how you show up in your friendships.Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project The Relationships We Live In podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/episode-1-the-relationships-we-live-in/The Anxious Overachiever newsletterDr Ronald Richardson: Jane Austen’s Guide to Good RelationshipsDr Kathleen Smith: Everything Isn’t TerribleDr Roberta Gilbert: Extraordinary RelationshipsDr. Robin Dunbar’s loneliness researchNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment about how systems thinking is useful in your own friendships.Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Friendship #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #EmotionalMaturity #Differentiation #Relationships #BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #TherapyPodcast #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 7/8/25 |  S3 Ep1 Parents with Dr. Kathleen Smith | Welcome to Season 3 of Elevator Systems!In our first episode of the season, we're diving into our earliest relationship with parents/caregivers — a formative relationship that shapes us across the lifespan. Joining hosts Dixie Vandersluys & Katie White is licensed therapist and author Dr. Kathleen Smith. Kathleen’s books include Everything Isn't Terrible and True to You: A Therapist's Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself. Living in Washington, DC, Kathleen is a faculty member at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and author of the popular newsletter, The Anxious Overachiever.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:How our relationship with parents is “Olympic training for objectivity” How Bowen family systems theory broadens perspective to multigenerational patternsWhat happens when we see our parents as humans, not heroes or villainsThe role of blame, anxiety, and differentiation in adult relationshipsWhy cut-off isn’t always the end and the usefulness of curiosityReal-world examples: parenting, loss, tooth hygiene, and “Sweet Caroline” Whether you’re navigating family dynamics, interested in personal growth, or work in mental health, this episode has insights, humour, and practical tools to think differently about you and your family story.Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project The Anxious Overachiever newsletterEverything Isn’t Terrible by Dr. Kathleen SmithTrue to You by Dr. Kathleen SmithFamily Therapy in Clinical Practice by Dr. Murray BowenFamily Ties that Bind by Dr. Ron RichardsonGrowing Yourself Up by Dr. Jenny BrownNew podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment with your biggest takeaway or reflection about your own family relationships!Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.caLiving Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/Key Topics:#ParentChildRelationships #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #Anxiety #Differentiation #FamilyDynamics #CutOff #Parenting #SelfGrowth #GenerationalTrauma #Family #Relationships #BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #TherapyPodcast #BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Perspective #Generations #History #Humanity #Objectivity #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProjectDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
| 7/1/25 |  S3 Preseason Episode - Bowen Theory & Relationships Across the Lifespan | Welcome to Season 3 of Elevator Systems!In this pre-season episode, hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White introduce the theme for the new season: Bowen Family Systems Theory in Relationships Across the Lifespan. This season, we’re taking Bowen Theory out and about—applying it to real-life relationships including:ChildhoodFriendshipsPetsPartnered relationshipsCoworkersParentingLater-life relationshipsWe’re also joined by Elise Steenburgh from The Murray Bowen Archives Project, who shares how the archive’s resources will enrich the season. Founded in 2008, The Murray Bowen Archives Project is dedicated to preserving, cataloging, and promoting access to the archival legacy of Dr. Murray Bowen. The organization ensures that Dr. Bowen’s clinical notes, video & audio recordings, photographs, correspondence, and other artifacts are safeguarded and made available for scholarly research and public education. These materials reflect Dr. Bowen’s development of a new theory of human behavior known as Bowen theory.Explore: https://www.murraybowenarchives.orgTerms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.Recommended Resources:The Murray Bowen Archives Project Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2Growing Yourself Up by Jenny BrownThe Family Life Cycle edited by Monica McGoldrick & Betty CarterNew podcast episodes every Tuesday starting July 8, 2025!Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.Like, Comment & Share to support systems thinking in everyday life.Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/#BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #BowenFamilySystems #EmotionalUnit #LivingSystems #Therapy #Differentiation #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject #TMBAP #PersonalGrowth #Family #AgingLiving Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:https://livingsystems.caDISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk. | — | ||||||
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