Joy Lab Podcast

Humility is one of the most quietly powerful practices for positive psychology and mental health. It's also one of the most misunderstood. Here's the heart of it: humility is not a weakness. It's not about making yourself small or performing modesty for social approval. It's an accurate, grounded sense of self, what Dr. Daryl Van Tongeren calls "right-sizing." You own your strengths and weaknesses. And you hold your worth steady through all of it. We explored four types of humility this month: relational, intellectual, cultural, and existential. And we worked through three core ingredients to build humility up: Know Yourself. This is where self-compassion becomes essential. Self-knowledge without self-compassion tends to slide into rumination — that harsh, looping self-focus that keeps us stuck. Dr. Kristin Neff's research reminds us that genuine self-reflection requires feeling safe enough to look clearly, without bracing for an attack. When self-compassion is in place, honest self-awareness becomes possible. So does recognizing things like the better-than-average effect, which is our tendency to unconsciously and inaccurately position ourselves as a little more right, and others a little more wrong. Humility gently corrects that drift. Check Yourself. This is ego territory. When we feel threatened, the ego rises up. We deflect, deny, shut down, intellectualize. It's a very human, very normal response. But it doesn't have to run the show. One of the most practical tools from this series: when you feel defensive, pause. Breathe. Then ask yourself, "What would I think if I weren't feeling defensive?" That question can create some space for the ego to stand down and lets emotional regulation take over instead of reactivity. Go Beyond Yourself. This is where the magic of humility really shows itself as we build a genuine curiosity about other people and life's bigger questions. The self-forgetfulness that C.S. Lewis describes as essential to humility puts it all into action. When we're not so consumed by ourselves, the world opens up. And that's where connection, meaning, and joy actually show up in more noticeable, lasting ways. If you've worked through this series and feel less certain than when you started, that's not a problem. That's the practice of humility in action. Sitting with uncertainty, tolerating what's unresolved, resisting the cultural pressure toward easy answers and performed confidence is peak courage. It's often uncomfortable and it's always worth it. If this work has stirred something that feels bigger than you want to carry alone, please reach out to a therapist, a trusted friend, or a support community. Seeking support isn't weakness. It's an act of humility and one of the most courageous things you can do. And for Joy Lab Program members: your Episode Experiment includes a guided meditation and journal prompts to help you harvest and integrate the work you've done this month. We close with Rilke (we know, we close with Rilke a lot!): "Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves." Keep tending to your humility. It grows good things. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program (get your 7-day free trial!). Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Sources and Notes for our Element of Humility: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Start your 7-day free trial now. Episodes in this Humility series: Humility Can Be Stressful... But Worth it for Mental Health [ep. 268] Know Yourself: The Humility Practice That Quiets Rumination and Builds Emotional Resilience [ep. 269] Check Yourself: Ego Threat, Stress Relief, & Needing to Prove Yourself [270] Book: Humble by Daryl Van Tongeren, PhD Tara Brach's website Find more about Neff's work on Self-compassion at Self-Compassion.org More on C.S. Lewis from the C.S. Lewis Foundation. Hagá & Olson. 'If I only had a little humility, I would be perfect': Children's and adults' perceptions of intellectually arrogant, humble, and diffident people. Access here. Nielsen & Marrone. Humility: Our current understanding of the construct and its role in organizations. Access here. Porter et al. Predictors and consequences of intellectual humility. Access here. Van Tongeren et al. Humility. Access here. Weidman et al. The psychological structure of humility. Access here. Wright et al. The psychological significance of humility. Access here. Wendell Berry's book Standing by Words Common Questions: Q: How do I stop being so hard on myself without losing self-awareness? A: Self-compassion and self-knowledge are partners. As researcher Dr. Kristin Neff puts it, "You can look clearly at yourself when you're not afraid of what you'll find." Self-compassion creates the psychological safety for honest, accurate self-appraisal, replacing harsh rumination with compassionate self-reflection. Humility is the result: an accurate, grounded sense of self that's neither inflated nor deflated. Q: Why does being humble feel so uncomfortable and countercultural? A: Because in many ways, it is. We live in a world that often rewards certainty, self-promotion, and being right, even when those things don't actually nourish us. Building humility means opening up to uncertainty and the unknown, which takes real courage. The good news is that discomfort is also building something called uncertainty-tolerance, a form of emotional resilience that reaches across every area of your life in really nourishing ways. Key moments: [00:00] Welcome & orientation — Aimee frames the three-part humility arc (Know Yourself → Check Yourself → Go Beyond Yourself) [01:30] Henry's realization: humility, like every Joy Lab Element, is ultimately about learning to love well and connect more deeply [03:00] Why humility is the antidote to loneliness — the difference between being surrounded by people and being genuinely seen; how isolation is really a form of alienation [05:00] What it feels like to be with a truly humble person — and why humility makes us safer, more trustworthy, and more magnetic in relationships and communities [06:30] The traffic circle of defensiveness — Aimee on why the risk of being burned by someone is still better than a lifetime of self-protective looping [07:30] Epistemic humility explained — the idea that your understanding of reality is always partial, always filtered, always a vantage point. And so is everyone else's. (Plus: a pronunciation debate.) [08:45] Why disagreement doesn't mean someone is wrong, and how truth is larger than any one person's grasp of it [10:30] William James on the deepest craving in human nature: to be appreciated and seen [11:00] Two practical strategies for going beyond yourself: (1) deep, active listening as a humility practice — not formulating your response, but truly receiving another person; (2) seeing the innocence of others [12:30] Thich Nhat Hanh: "Listen until they empty their hearts." Henry shares this as a guide for showing up and listening [13:30] Seeing the innocence in others — Henry's 30+ years of clinical wisdom distilled: most people are doing the best they can with what they have, right now. How holding that awareness softens judgment without eliminating boundaries [15:30] Aimee reflects: "That's the wisdom I'd want somebody to hold when they see me messing up." [16:00] Experiment preview for Joy Lab Program members + closing Rumi quote: "You are not a drop in the ocean, you are the entire ocean in a drop." Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram Linkedin Facebook YouTube Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Humility and mental health are more connected than you might think. And if you add self-compassion to the humility-ego mix, then you have a recipe that can support mood, offer stress relief, and give your mind and body a break from constantly trying to defend yourself. We'll dig into all this with the "Check Yourself" step of the humility framework, unpacking ego threat, defensive thinking patterns, and the very human stress response that kicks in when we feel criticized, wrong, or uncertain. Spoiler: the ego is not the villain here. It's more like an overzealous bodyguard, and humility is how you can teach it to stand down. This is Episode 3 of Joy Lab's Element of Humility series, following Dr. Daryl Van Tongeren's framework: know yourself, check yourself, and go beyond yourself. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram Linkedin Watch this episode on YouTube Sources and Notes for our Element of Humility: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Episodes in this Humility series: Humility Can Be Stressful... But Worth it for Mental Health [ep. 268] Know Yourself: The Humility Practice That Quiets Rumination and Builds Emotional Resilience [ep. 269] Book: Humble by Daryl Van Tongeren, PhD Tara Brach's website Find more about Neff's work on Self-compassion at Self-Compassion.org More on C.S. Lewis from the C.S. Lewis Foundation. Hagá & Olson. 'If I only had a little humility, I would be perfect': Children's and adults' perceptions of intellectually arrogant, humble, and diffident people. Access here. Nielsen & Marrone. Humility: Our current understanding of the construct and its role in organizations. Access here. Porter et al. Predictors and consequences of intellectual humility. Access here. Van Tongeren et al. Humility. Access here. Weidman et al. The psychological structure of humility. Access here. Wright et al. The psychological significance of humility. Access here. Wendell Berry's book Standing by Words Key moments: [00:00] Welcome and episode framing — checking ourselves means we accept that we don't know it all, recognize our own cultural lenses, and can sit with uncertainty without losing ourselves. [02:00] Henry on accepting uncertainty as a form of letting go of control — and why the self-knowledge work from last episode makes this possible. True inner strength means being secure enough to admit when you're wrong and hold your ground when you need to. [04:00] Enter: the ego. Aimee makes the case that the ego isn't the root of all evil. A healthy ego helps us maintain a coherent, positive sense of self. The problem isn't the ego itself; it's when the ego runs the whole show, making every decision from a place of fear. [06:30] Ego threat explained — when criticism, mistakes, or uncertainty shake our sense of self, a stress response activates. This triggers cognitive distortions: black-and-white thinking, confirmation-seeking, and rigid beliefs. It's common, it's wired in, and it doesn't have to take us down. [08:30] Henry's bodyguard metaphor: the ego is a zealous protector that sometimes overreacts wildly — treating a questioned idea like a life-or-death threat. Humility doesn't fire the bodyguard. It just teaches it to relax. [11:00] Signs the bodyguard has overstepped. Aimee walks through the obvious ones (counterattacking, deflecting, blame-shifting) and the subtler ones (shutting down, overexplaining, people-pleasing, doubling down on beliefs to avoid uncertainty). If you're nodding, you're in good company. [13:00] Henry adds the physical signs of ego threat to watch for: chest tightness, heat rising, clenched jaw, shallow breathing. Your body knows you're in ego threat before your mind does. Also: the urgency to respond immediately, spinning narratives to justify reactions, needing the last word. [15:00] The good news — and the real mental health payoff. Admitting mistakes makes us more liked and respected. Humility builds psychological safety in relationships, keeps small harms from becoming earthquakes, reduces thought distortions, and separates self-worth from performance. It's a genuine resilience-booster. [17:00] Henry's three-step in-the-moment practice: pause (especially when it feels most urgent), take one slow breath (gives your brain a chance to come back online), and ask "What would I think about this if I weren't feeling defensive?" Shift from threat response to curiosity response — and still hold your ground if you need to, just from a grounded place. [19:00] Aimee adds supportive touch as an emotional regulation tool — hands stacked gently on the body, a breath, a moment of self-compassion. Getting out of the traffic circle doesn't require a response or a win. Sometimes you just drive on your way. [20:30] Closing wisdom from Tara Brach: "The ego is not your enemy, it is your partner. Make peace with it." Full transcript here Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Humility is not a weakness or a sign you're a pushover, instead it's a mental health tool that just might be exactly what our loneliness epidemic and anxiety culture are desperately craving. Humility is an accurate, grounded sense of who you are. And that grounded sense of self is a foundation for confidence, deeper connection, and holistic mental health. Here's what we'll explore this episode: There are four research-backed types of humility to focus on: Relational humility — how you hold yourself in relation to others; not above, not below Intellectual humility — holding beliefs with openness; curiosity over certainty Cultural humility — recognizing the limits of your own cultural lens and genuinely welcoming differences Existential humility — making peace with uncertainty, impermanence, and the big unanswerable questions of human life You might be doing great in one area and struggling in another (that's normal). These types aren't perfectly clean categories, but they offer areas for self-reflection and focus as you work to boost your humility and emotional wellbeing throughout the month. With these areas in mind, we'll use researcher Dr. Daryl Van Tongeren's framework to build humility through three core ingredients: Know Yourself — honest self-awareness of strengths and limits, without self-preoccupation Check Yourself — reducing defensiveness and the need to protect your ego Go Beyond Yourself — cultivating empathy and humility as a deep relational practice These three ingredients aren't just a nice framework for self improvement, they're a pathway to reducing loneliness, increasing connection, and building the kind of holistic healing and joy that Joy Lab is all about. If you're in the Joy Lab Program, your first Experiment will help you locate yourself within these four types and start the work. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram Linkedin Watch on YouTube Sources and Notes for our Element of Humility: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. More on C.S. Lewis from the C.S. Lewis Foundation. Book: Humble by Daryl Van Tongeren, PhD Hagá & Olson. 'If I only had a little humility, I would be perfect': Children's and adults' perceptions of intellectually arrogant, humble, and diffident people. Access here. Nielsen & Marrone. Humility: Our current understanding of the construct and its role in organizations. Access here. Porter et al. Predictors and consequences of intellectual humility. Access here. Van Tongeren et al. Humility. Access here. Weidman et al. The psychological structure of humility. Access here. Wright et al. The psychological significance of humility. Access here. Wendell Berry's book Standing by Words Key moments: [00:00:00] Welcome + intro to Joy Lab's Element of Humility — solo episode with Dr. Aimee Prasek [00:00:30] Clearing up the bad takes: what humility is not — not weakness, not martyrdom, not dismissing your talents [00:01:00] The social science of humility: why we're drawn to humble people from mid-adolescence on, and why it primes us for connection [00:02:00] Humility as antidote to certainty culture and self-destructive perfectionism; the formal definition unpacked [00:02:45] C.S. Lewis on humility as self-forgetfulness — and the powerful paradox it reveals about hyper self-focus [00:03:30] The reframed Lewis quote: "Humility is not thinking less of yourself — it's thinking of yourself less often" [00:04:15] Introducing the four research-backed types of humility: relational, intellectual, cultural, and existential [00:05:00] Deep dive into intellectual, cultural, and existential humility — leaning into curiosity over certainty [00:06:00] Why humility is harder than other Elements — and why it's worth it anyway [00:07:00] The obstacles: certainty culture, fear of being wrong, pressure to perform vs. just be [00:08:00] Ego protection, the stress response, and why humility can feel like a physical threat to the nervous system [00:08:45] Dr. Daryl Van Tongeren's three ingredients for building humility: Know Yourself → Check Yourself → Go Beyond Yourself [00:09:45] Humility as medicine for the loneliness epidemic, anxiety, and depression — why culture is craving this right now [00:10:30] What's coming next: knowing ourselves, plus your first Joy Lab Program Experiment [00:11:00] Closing poem: The Real Work by Wendell Berry Full transcript here Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

We're in our Element of Resilience and we're going somewhere most mental health conversations completely skip: the heart. Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek unpack why mental health has been so brain-centric for so long, what the field of neurocardiology is revealing about the heart's role in how we feel, think, and connect, and why ancient healing traditions were frankly ahead of the curve on all of this. Then they walk through three practical, research-backed heart-centered practices to support your mental health: self-acceptance, loving-kindness, and compassion. Henry also shares a simple, portable exercise called The Three Kindnesses that you can do anywhere, anytime. Whether you've been with us throughout this series or this is your first episode, this one is a great entry point into what Joy Lab is really about. Try It Free 🎉 The Joy Lab Program is free for 30 days — offer ends May 31st. Head to JoyLab.coach/program to sign up. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, ease anxiety, and uplift mood. Join Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek for practical, mindfulness-based tools and positive psychology strategies to build resilience and create lasting joy. Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with the Joy Lab Program. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts! And... if you want to spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free, then please join our mission by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram Linkedin Watch this episode on YouTube Sources and Notes for our Element of Resilience: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Joy Lab Episodes referenced: Last episode: From Surviving to Thriving: The Science and Soul of Resilience (ep. 263) Chemistry of Calm (Dr. Emmons' book referenced in this series) Dr. Catherine Panter-Brick- Yale faculty page Resilience definitions, theory, and challenges: interdisciplinary perspectives Annual Research Review: Positive adjustment to adversity -Trajectories of minimal-impact resilience and emergent resilience Adaptive growth of tree root systems in response to wind action and site conditions. Brain meta-state transitions demarcate thoughts across task contexts exposing the mental noise of trait neuroticism. Effects of a 12-week endurance training program on the physiological response to psychosocial stress in men: a randomized controlled trial No man is an island: social resources, stress and mental health at mid-life How does the brain deal with cumulative stress? A review with focus on developmental stress, HPA axis function and hippocampal structure in humans Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind (this is the study of people shocking themselves out of boredom) Emotion Suppression and Mortality Risk Over a 12-Year Follow-up Cumulative Stress and Health Ordinary Magic, Resilience in Development Summary of the Project Competence Longitudinal Study The Times of Our Lives: Interaction Among Different Biological Periodicities Full transcript here Key moments: [00:00:00] — Welcome back; introducing the focus: cultivating a good heart as part of resilience training [00:01:00] — Why mental health gets stuck in the brain and why that's a problem; the science is pointing somewhere bigger [00:02:00] — Henry's early inspiration from Jon Kabat-Zinn; the "larger container" and "water cooler" metaphors for resilience. Keeping your resilience reservoir full; why self-care alone isn't always enough. [00:05:00] — "Easy and natural" — what cultivating a good heart actually looks like in practice [00:06:00] — Aimee's viral morning routine breakdown: biohacking, ice baths, and 14-step routines vs. what actually moves the needle [00:08:00] — The heart-first theory of sensory processing; introducing the science of neurocardiology. The heart's complex neural network (the "heart-brain"); the heart produces hormones AND neurotransmitters including oxytocin [00:10:00] — Vagal nerves and the parasympathetic nervous system: the heart tells the brain what to do in this case, more than the other way around [00:12:00] — The mind-heart-gut connection; what creates blockages (grief, trauma, isolation) — and how to release them. Why we can't think our way out of depression or anxiety; working with the whole system. [00:14:00] — Introducing three heart-centered practices from Henry's work: self-acceptance, loving-kindness, and compassion [00:15:00] — Deep dive on self-acceptance: a continuous, all-day practice for releasing self-judgment. Loving-Kindness meditation: why this might be the single most powerful self-care practice you're not doing [00:18:00] — Compassion practice: holding others' suffering with an open heart; deepening our sense of shared humanity. Introducing The Three Kindnesses practice from Henry's book Chemistry of Calm: simple, portable, and effective [00:20:00] — Pattern One: noticing kindness between others [00:21:00] — Pattern Two: noticing when someone is kind to you — even in micro-moments — and what it does to your inner experience [00:22:00] — Pattern Three: noticing your own acts of kindness [00:25:00] — "With our heart, we make the world"; closing quote from the 14th Dalai Lama on kindness as religion Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Calming the mind sounds simple, right? And yet most of us would rather do almost anything other than sitting quietly with our thoughts. In this episode, Dr. Aimee Prasek and Dr. Henry Emmons dig into the science of Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANTs), the surprising research on just how much we think, and the powerful practice of the observer self: the part of your mind that can step back, see what's happening, and choose differently. This episode makes the case that our relationship with our own minds might be the most important resilience work we do. Try It Free 🎉 The Joy Lab Program is free for 30 days — offer ends May 31st. Head to JoyLab.coach/program to sign up. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, ease anxiety, and uplift mood. Join Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek for practical, mindfulness-based tools and positive psychology strategies to build resilience and create lasting joy. Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with the Joy Lab Program. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts! And... if you want to spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free, then please join our mission by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram Linkedin Watch on YouTube Full transcript here Sources and Notes for our Element of Resilience: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Joy Lab Episodes referenced: Last episode: From Surviving to Thriving: The Science and Soul of Resilience (ep. 263) Chemistry of Calm (Dr. Emmons' book referenced in this series) Dr. Catherine Panter-Brick- Yale faculty page Resilience definitions, theory, and challenges: interdisciplinary perspectives Annual Research Review: Positive adjustment to adversity -Trajectories of minimal-impact resilience and emergent resilience Adaptive growth of tree root systems in response to wind action and site conditions. Brain meta-state transitions demarcate thoughts across task contexts exposing the mental noise of trait neuroticism. Effects of a 12-week endurance training program on the physiological response to psychosocial stress in men: a randomized controlled trial No man is an island: social resources, stress and mental health at mid-life How does the brain deal with cumulative stress? A review with focus on developmental stress, HPA axis function and hippocampal structure in humans Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind (this is the study of people shocking themselves out of boredom) Emotion Suppression and Mortality Risk Over a 12-Year Follow-up Cumulative Stress and Health Ordinary Magic, Resilience in Development Summary of the Project Competence Longitudinal Study The Times of Our Lives: Interaction Among Different Biological Periodicities Key moments: [00:00:00] — Welcome Back to Joy Lab & Resilience This month's focus is Resilience, and today we're tackling one of the most deceptively simple things — calming the mind. [00:00:20] — The 4-Year-Old and the Balloon: How Convincing (and Wrong) Our Thoughts Can Be Aimee opens with a story about her daughter, who came to her in tears over a thought that she'd float away in a balloon. When asked if it was true, her daughter said yes — because her brain was thinking it. With her feet planted firmly on the floor and not a balloon in sight. [00:01:45] — Introducing ANTs: Automatic Negative Thoughts Building on last episode's tree metaphor, Aimee introduces ANTs — Automatic Negative Thoughts. These are recurring, often unconscious negative thoughts, so deeply patterned through repetition that they arise automatically. They show up about ourselves, our futures, and the world around us — and they're strongly linked to anxiety and depression. The good news: everyone has them, and we can learn to navigate them. [00:02:20] — Categories of Cognitive Distortions Aimee connects ANTs to the broader framework of cognitive distortions familiar to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) practitioners. Common types include black-and-white thinking, overgeneralization, and emotional reasoning (feeling like an imposter, therefore being one). Essentially: seeing scary balloons that aren't there, grabbing onto them, and letting them carry us deeper into worry and rumination. [00:02:55] — The Numbers: How Many Thoughts Do We Actually Have? Aimee shares the research: approximately 7 thought-changes per minute — meaning a completely different thought roughly every 9-10 seconds. Accounting for sleep, that's around 6,200 thoughts per day. Henry wonders how many of them are the same thought. (Spoiler: a lot of them.) The real problem isn't just the volume — it's that we believe so much of what we think. [00:04:30] — The Internet, Our Collective Brain, and the Power of Belief Henry draws a parallel between the internet and our minds: just as we know the internet isn't always true but somehow still believe it, we treat our own thoughts as if they're sourced from some objective ground truth. He connects this to the Buddhist teaching from the Dhammapada — Buddha's opening lines: "with our thoughts we make the world" — written 3,500 years ago and still holding up. [00:06:30] — Aimee's Counter-Take: Idiocracy and the Stakes of Mental Autonomy Henry takes the optimistic philosophical turn. Aimee takes the Idiocracy route. Both, somehow, arrive at the same conclusion: now more than ever, we need to reclaim the power of our own minds — for our inner worlds and the world we create around us. [00:07:45] — Why We Grab Our Phones Instead of Facing Our Thoughts If we're not actively training our minds, it's infinitely easier to reach for a phone and chase dopamine than to sit with difficult thoughts. Aimee and Henry name this dynamic honestly — not to shame anyone, but to make the case for why this work matters. [00:08:30] — Learned Optimism: The Skill of Choosing How You See Henry introduces Martin Seligman and his landmark work Learned Optimism — one of the foundational texts of positive psychology. A key finding: pessimists often do see reality more accurately. And yet pessimistic thinking is strongly correlated with depression. Optimism, whether or not it's always technically accurate, is a learnable skill — and training it is one of the most effective preventive tools against depression. This isn't toxic positivity. It's a practice. [00:10:30] — The Observer Self: Your Most Underused Mental Superpower Henry introduces the concept of the observing self, a part of the mind that is fundamentally different from the part doing all the thinking. The observer doesn't get swept into the thought. It simply notices. It steps back. It stays above the fray. And once you can access it, you have a choice: do I want to believe this thought, or do I want to choose a different one? [00:12:00] — Awareness Is the First Step (and It's Harder Than It Sounds) Aimee affirms: becoming aware that we are thinking sounds obvious but is genuinely difficult. Most of us are oblivious to our own thought process most of the time — and until we're not, we're at the mercy of it. [00:13:00] — The Electric Shock Study: Why Sitting With Your Thoughts Is So Hard Aimee shares one of her favorite studies from Dr. Timothy Wilson and colleagues. In brief: 55 participants were left alone in a room with nothing to do They were instructed to entertain themselves with pleasant thoughts for 15 minutes A button in the room would self-administer an electric shock 42 of 55 participants had previously said they'd pay money to avoid the shock 43% of those 42 people shocked themselves anyway The conclusion: being alone with our thoughts is genuinely, measurably uncomfortable. We sometimes choose pain over mental stillness. This isn't weakness — it's the reality of an untrained mind. And it's exactly why this work matters. [00:16:30] — Learning the Observer Self: Like Riding a Bike Henry reassures: this skill is learnable, and once you've got it, you've got it — like riding a bike. It seems impossible until it suddenly isn't. Practicing the observer self gives us back our freedom: the ability to see a thought as just a thought, and choose what to do with it. [00:17:30] — Energy Vampires: Negative Thoughts as a Drain on Resilience Henry extends the resilience metaphor from the previous episode (the container of magic elixir) to a new one: a battery. Unconscious negative thoughts are energy vampires — like cords left plugged in around the house, silently drawing power even when you're not using them. Awareness lets us unplug them, stop the drain, and start recharging. [00:18:40] — Anne Lamott, Unplugging, and the Power of Simply Noticing Aimee brings in Anne Lamott's wisdom: "Almost everything will work again if you unplug it for a few minutes, including you." The goal isn't to silence all thoughts — it's to notice them, step back, and stop letting the automatic ones run the show. [00:19:15] — Joy Lab Program Invitation Aimee invites listeners to join the Joy Lab Program — free this month — where the practices in this episode are applied step-by-step. Head to JoyLab.coach to sign up. [00:19:45] — Closing Quote: Brené Brown on Owning Your Story Aimee closes with Brené Brown: "When we deny our stories and disengage from tough emotions, they don't go away; instead, they own us, they define us. Our job is not to deny the story, but to defy the ending — to rise strong, recognize our story, and rumble with the truth until we get to a place where we think, Yes. This is what happened. This is my truth. And I will choose how this story ends." Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

We're in our new "month of renewal" format. We're essentially exploring this question throughout the month... what if growth required less effort? This is an encore episode that helps us answer this question. Reminder that we'll be back with new episodes May 1, 2026. "Joyless urgency." Two words that probably just hit a little too close to home. In this episode, Henry Emmons, MD and Aimee Prasek, PhD dig into the Element of Fun — and why so many of us have so little of it. Drawing on the writing of Marilynne Robinson, the surprising decline of kids biking, and sobering research on social media's role in what researchers call problematic engagement, Henry and Aimee make a compelling case that fun isn't frivolous. It's foundational. And reclaiming it might be one of the most radical — and effective — things you can do right now. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app: Spotify | Apple | YouTube Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram | LinkedIn Full transcript here Watch this episode on YouTube Sources and Notes: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. More about Marilynne Robinson from The Poetry Foundation Farivar, S., Wang, F., & Turel, O. (2022). Followers' problematic engagement with influencers on social media: An attachment theory perspective. Computers in Human Behavior, 133. Access here. Joy Lab Episodes referenced: Worrier? You're Not Alone. Here's Why We Worry... [ep. 213] Unmasking Your True Self: Exploring Authenticity and Awe [ep. 216] Embrace Your True Self: Accepted, Connected, & In The Game [ep. 217] The Road Most Travelled: Awakening Through Suffering [ep. 218] Follow Your Bliss: Awakening to Joy [ep. 219] The Still Small Voice: Awakening with Soulfulness [ep. 220] Key moments: [00:00:00] — Welcome & The Quote That Started It All Henry and Aimee open with a striking passage from author Marilynne Robinson's essay collection The Givenness of Things: "The spirit of the times is one of joyless urgency." Aimee unpacks why those two words land so hard — and how Robinson's observation that this urgency serves "inscrutable ends that are utterly not our own" is the quiet crisis underneath hustle culture. [00:02:00] — The Question We're Too Busy to Answer We've all had that moment of clarity — what am I doing this for? — only to immediately rush past it into the next task. Aimee names the pattern: sometimes urgency is more comfortable than sitting with the possibility that all this striving might not actually be for us. [00:03:00] — Henry's Childhood Take on Boredom (Wisdom From the Old Wise Rat) Henry reflects on being a kid who dreaded boredom — and how that boredom turned out to be necessary. The inactivity between moments of play is what made the play so rich. Think of it like the pause between musical notes. [00:05:30] — Aimee's Dollar Ice Cream Cone Moment Aimee connects bike riding to early experiences of autonomy and confidence — biking to the corner store with a dollar felt like being a real adult. A sweet illustration of how unstructured play doubles as a training ground for real-world social skills, self-confidence, and approach behavior. [00:07:00] — Social Media and the Architecture of Joyless Urgency Here's where it gets science-y. Aimee connects the joyless urgency framework directly to how most social media platforms are designed — not to satisfy us, but to keep us in a loop of stimulation and momentary relief. The mechanics: activate anxiety, ease it briefly, activate again. Repeat. Sound familiar? [00:08:00] — Problematic Engagement: What the Research Says Aimee introduces the research concept of problematic engagement — used in studies on social media addiction and gambling — which describes the cycle of engaging with something that momentarily eases dis-ease but ultimately causes harm. Key finding: social anxiety is a primary driver, and these platforms are algorithmically built to exploit it. [00:09:30] — The Most Ironic Research Finding People who believe they have complete control over their social media use — who think they could stop at any time — actually show the most signs of problematic engagement. They're absorbing the most harm while feeling the least concerned about it. [00:10:00] — Dr. Samira Farivar Quote + What We're Up Against Aimee references research by Dr. Samira Farivar: "You can't action a problem you don't even know exists." The platform isn't incidental to the problem — it is the business model. We're not weak for falling into this loop. We're human, and the trap was engineered specifically for us. [00:11:30] — The Simple Truth About Adding More Fun Henry brings it home: adding more fun to life is theoretically simple. If we just slow down enough to let our awareness catch up, we'll almost naturally fill that space with something we enjoy. Kids don't need instructions for fun — and adults don't either, once we clear the noise. [00:13:00] — Listening to the Voice That Wants to Play Henry offers a quiet but urgent reminder: our inner wisdom needs to be heard. If we don't honor it, it either goes silent — or gets louder until we can't ignore it. The invitation is to pause, ask what am I doing?, and actually wait for an answer to surface. [00:14:00] — Play Is an Offensive Strategy Aimee closes the conversation with a reframe: fun and play aren't a retreat from the hard stuff in the world. They're a way of moving through it. Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

We're in our new "month of renewal" format. We're essentially exploring this question throughout the month... what if growth required less effort? This is an encore episode that helps us answer this question. Reminder that we'll be back with new episodes May 1, 2026. Solitude and fun in the same sentence? Stick with us. In this episode, we'll explore how intentional alone time — free from devices, distractions, and the pressure to perform happiness — can actually be one of the most powerful tools for mental wellness and, yes, even joy. From the neuroscience of arousal states to Trappist monks in rural Iowa, this one is equal parts science and soul. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app: Spotify | Apple Watch on YouTube Full transcript here Sources and Notes: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Podcast episodes referenced: #73 Lonely in crowded places (this isn't a country music song) (this is the episode that originally played before this one) #28 Common Humanity vs Isolation Related podcast episodes: #72 Blame-It, Overanalyze-It, Should-It, & Separate (BOSS Dominoes) #71 Uncovering Your Playful Nature (guided meditation) #70 Update and Special [Super fun!] Replay #19 The Power of Play: Clocks vs Clouds and Taming Your Wild Things National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine. 2020. Social Isolation and Loneliness in Older Adults: Opportunities for the Health Care System. https://doi.org/10.17226/25663 Loneliness and Social Isolation Linked to Serious Health Conditions Brain systems underlying the affective and social monitoring of actions: An integrative review How BIS/BAS and psycho-behavioral variables distinguish between social withdrawal subtypes during emerging adulthood Solitude as an Approach to Affective Self-Regulation What Time Alone Offers: Narratives of Solitude From Adolescence to Older Adulthood The Handbook of Solitude: Psychological Perspectives on Social Isolation, Social Withdrawal, and Being Alone, Second Edition Descartes' Meditations Maya Angelou's website Key moments: [00:01:00] — Defining Solitude Aimee offers a working definition: solitude is the voluntary experience of being alone, without devices or stimuli pulling attention away from oneself. Key distinction: solitude feels full, while loneliness feels like lack. [00:02:30] — Solitude vs. Loneliness: A Useful Parallel Henry draws a parallel between solitude/loneliness and grief/depression — experiences that may look similar on the surface but lead to very different outcomes. Healthy solitude, like healthy grief, can free and open us up. [00:05:00] — Obstacles to Solitude: Social Pressure Aimee calls out the cultural pressure to be perpetually social. In US culture, extroversion is rewarded, "table for one" is framed as sad, and choosing alone time can feel like going against the grain of good mental health — even though meaningful solitude actually supports it. [00:06:30] — The Paradox of American Individualism Henry reflects on how a culture that prizes individualism can simultaneously use constant social activity as a defense against the loneliness that individualism breeds — a potential downward spiral. [00:07:00] — Solitude as the Outbreath: Rhythm and Nature Drawing from his resilience retreat work, Henry introduces the breath as a metaphor for healthy life rhythm: activity needs rest, stress needs recovery, depletion needs renewal. Solitude, he suggests, is the outbreath after the inbreath of companionship and extroversion. [00:09:00] — Descartes on Peaceful Solitude Aimee shares a passage from Descartes' Meditations on the freedom solitude offers — a chance to release rigid opinions and find spaciousness. [00:10:00] — The Neuroscience: Arousal States Explained Aimee breaks down the arousal state spectrum — from deep sleep (lowest) to stress and agitation (highest) — and explains why US culture's incentivizing of high arousal states keeps our nervous systems chronically buzzing. [00:11:00] — High Arousal Positive Affect & Toxic Positivity A nuanced look at the cultural pressure to display high-energy happiness — "high energy on top of high energy" — and why that contributes to nervous system overload and, in Aimee's view, is where toxic positivity lives. [00:12:00] — Low Arousal States and the Healing Power of Solitude Research on how solitude can bring us into lower arousal states — awake, at ease, peaceful — and why that matters for overall balance. Aimee notes that individual differences matter: some people may actually need more activation, not less. [00:14:00] — Henry's Story: Trappist Monks and Medical Training Henry shares how the chronic high-arousal state of his medical and psychiatric training led him to a Trappist monastery in rural Iowa — with no prior knowledge of Catholicism or contemplative practice. He found daily rhythms of work and contemplation, centering prayer (similar to mindfulness meditation), and came out renewed. [00:17:30] — You Don't Need a Monastery Solitude doesn't require a silent retreat or foraging your own food in a cave (though that's an option). It can be 15 minutes in the garden — including relocating a very fat caterpillar eating your parsley. [00:19:30] — What Solitude Can Look Like for You Henry shares his current practice: time in nature when possible, journaling, quiet reflection on what feeds him and what steals his joy. Not productivity — sometimes a crossword or simply zoning out. A.A. Milne gets a well-earned cameo. [00:21:30] — What You'll Find in the Quiet Henry's invitation to those new to solitude: it may feel daunting, but what you'll encounter beneath the surface is worth it. "It's all love." [00:22:30] — Closing Wisdom: Maya Angelou on Solitude Aimee closes with a passage from Maya Angelou on solitude as a desirable condition — a space to listen to yourself, describe yourself to yourself, and hear something deeper. Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

We're doing something a little different this month — and a little more of nothing. This is our new "month of renewal" format (happening three times a year in April, August, and December). We're essentially exploring this question throughout the month... what if growth required less effort? Drawing on the wisdom of nature, Parker Palmer's framework for inner work, and a haiku that Henry clearly loves more than he's willing to admit, this episode invites you to stop cramming, sprinting, and self-improving your way through every month of the year. The truth is that growth requires rest. And this month, we'll create the conditions for what already wants to grow in you to actually grow. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app: Spotify | Apple | YouTube Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram | LinkedIn Key moments: [00:00:00] — Welcome & The New Renewal Calendar Henry and Aimee introduce Joy Lab's new format: three months per year (April, August, December) dedicated to renewal. Less doing, same impact. [00:01:00] — Parker Palmer, Nature's Metaphors & Seasons of the Soul Henry shares his training in Parker Palmer's model of inner work and why aligning with the rhythms of nature is one of the most underrated roots of resilience. [00:03:45] — The Activity-Rest Trap of Spring (And Summer) Henry highlights the often-missed counterpoint to spring's energy: the need for alternation between activity and rest. [00:05:00] — What Renewal Actually Is (Hint: It's Not a Makeover) Renewal isn't about consuming more external content or self-improvement projects. It's about creating space for what wants to grow within you to actually take root. [00:06:00] — The Seed Metaphor: Everything You Need Is Already Inside You The seed already contains everything it needs to grow — it just needs time, water, warmth, and soil. [00:06:30] — Why "Always-On" Culture Works Against Renewal Overloaded schedules, content consumption, overscheduled kids, overperformance — our culture makes it structurally difficult for new growth to emerge from within. [00:08:00] — Henry's Favorite Haiku: "Spring Comes and the Grass Grows By Itself" Henry's go-to quote gets its moment. The insight: effortless growth isn't passive — it's not getting in the way. [00:09:00] — The Month's Intention: Allow, Don't Force Instead of effort, what if you just gave a little attention — a little watering, a little light — and let things emerge on their own terms? [00:09:30] — Three Options for Your Month of Renewal [00:10:00] — Option 1: Go Deeper With Past Practices Return to a Joy Lab Element or Experiment that sparked something in you. Revisit it with fresh eyes. Notice what's different, what's ready to grow. [00:11:00] — Option 2: Integrate What You Already Know Addition by subtraction. You don't need more — you need room. Take things off your plate: information, others' opinions, the news (which Henry diplomatically calls "awfully compelling right now"). [00:13:00] — Practical Tips for Creating Mental Space Silence phone notifications, set active screen time limits, reduce your kids' overscheduled activities, create "psychic space" to hear what's calling you internally — by choice, not by algorithm. [00:15:00] — Option 3: Rest. Just… Rest. Renewal through rest. Like soil thawing in spring, we need to soak in warmth and nourishment before another season of growth. Permission granted to do absolutely nothing. [00:15:30] — The Digital Detox Prescription Go offline as long as you can each day. Research is increasingly clear: even having your phone nearby impairs cognitive functioning. It doesn't have to be cold turkey — just a little less, a little more each day. [00:16:30] — Mary Oliver's Wisdom: "Are You Breathing Just a Little and Calling It a Life?" What would a full breath look like for you this month? [00:17:00] — What Rest Can Actually Look Like A nap. A bath. Watching birds. Coffee with a friend. A game with your kid. Cooking a new recipe. Journaling. Basketball. A walk. [00:19:00] — What This Month Looks Like: The Schedule One curated episode from the Joy Lab Library releases every Wednesday this month. Members have access to all Experiments. New content returns May 1st. [00:19:30] — Your Three Paths (Or Create Your Own) Go deeper. Integrate. Rest. All of these are renewal. Trust your wisdom. [00:19:45] — Closing Wisdom from Wayne Muller "In the relentless busyness of modern life, we have lost the rhythm between work and rest." Sources and Notes: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Full transcript available here Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

This is it — the finale of our 10-part series on grief, and we're closing with a Gate that might be the most quietly powerful one yet: Other. That's right, the catchall. The one that says: if your loss doesn't fit neatly into a framework, it still counts. If you're feeling it, it counts. Losses that fall into this category include: Identity shifts, infertility, retirement, faded friendships, the life you thought you'd have — and anything else. We also reflect on the full arc of the series, sharing four essential takeaways about grief, and perhaps most importantly, making the case that grief and joy aren't opposites. They're companions. And working with one deepens your capacity for both. If you've been putting off your grief because it seemed too small, too strange, or too hard to explain to anyone else — this episode is your permission slip. This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready. p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app: Spotify | Apple | YouTube Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram | LinkedIn Watch on YouTube Key moments: [00:00:00] — This is the final episode of Joy Lab's 10-part Grief Series, beginning with episode 248. Overview of the framework: Francis Weller's Five Gates of Grief, with additional gates from other practitioners. [00:01:00] — Introducing the Ninth Gate: Other. Examples include: identity transitions, infertility, miscarriage, abortion, aging, retirement, relocating, faded friendships, missed opportunities, a diagnosis. The message of this Gate: your grief is valid, even if it doesn't fit a category. [00:02:00] — Why the "Other" Gate matters: it gives permission to grieve things we didn't think were grievable. Henry reflects on grief he carried about the life he imagined for his later years. Sometimes the losses that linger longest are the ones we felt we weren't allowed to name. [00:03:00] — The Ninth Gate as permission: no framework, however good, can contain all of grief. If it feels like a loss, it is a loss. This Gate honors grief's vastness and individuality. [00:04:00] — Connecting grief to our Element of Joy for this month: Equanimity. Real equanimity isn't about avoiding highs and lows — it includes grief. [00:05:00] — Real equanimity is the ability to stay present with whatever's happening — joy, fear, sorrow, love — without being swept away. Grief can be a storm, but we can learn to work with it rather than be destroyed by it. [00:06:00] — How grief becomes workable: by practicing with smaller emotions when they're less overwhelming, we build capacity. Touching grief lightly, letting it move through — that's how the storm becomes survivable. The whole series has been about building exactly this capacity. [00:07:00] — Four Key Takeaways from the Grief Series: Takeaway 1: Grief is not a problem to solve or something to get over. It's a natural response to loss — and loss is part of living. Takeaway 2: Grief is communal. Billions of people are working with these gates. You are not alone. Takeaway 3: Grief is a skill we have to practice — consistent, regular grief-hygiene rituals help us work with frequent losses before they accumulate. The small "Other" griefs percolating in the background? Name them. Work with them. That's great training. Takeaway 4: Grief isn't just about death or obvious losses. Curiosity about how loss touches us is itself a powerful mental health skill. When we're willing to see and hold our losses, we can also see and hold the love around us — and within us. [00:09:00] — The gifts of grief, Part 1: Henry reflects on what this series — and his own prolonged experience of grief — has given him. Grief opens us to compassion. When you've been through real loss, you recognize it in others. You understand their struggle at a level you couldn't before. That's profound connection. [00:10:00] — The gifts of grief, Part 2: Grief brings wisdom. You learn what really matters. You stop wasting time on what doesn't. Henry shares something personal: "I am more tender now. More permeable. I feel things more deeply." And because of that, he's more open to joy — because you can't close yourself off to pain without also closing yourself off to beauty, love, and wonder. [00:11:00] — Grief and joy are not opposites — they're companions. The deeper your capacity for grief, the deeper your capacity for joy. Both require an open heart. Henry's closing encouragement: "Don't be afraid of grief. Let it be your teacher. Let it make you more of who you really are." [00:12:00] — Closing wisdom from Kahlil Gibran: "The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." Full transcipt here Sources and Notes for this full grief series: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Grief Series: The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248] Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249] Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250] Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251] Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252] Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253] How Facing the Harm You've Done Can Set You Free [part 7, ep 254] How the World's Pain Enters Your Body and What to Do Next [part 8, ep 255] Related Episodes: Savoring the Present and Overcoming FOBO (it's kinda like FOMO...) [ep 45] Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller The Four Things That Matter Most by Ira Byock, M.D. Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here Beckes, et al. (2011). Social Baseline Theory: The Role of Social Proximity in Emotion and Economy of Action. Access here Bunea et al. (2017). Early-life adversity and cortisol response to social stress: a meta-analysis. Access here. Eisma, et al. (2019). No pain, no gain: cross-lagged analyses of posttraumatic growth and anxiety, depression, posttraumatic stress and prolonged grief symptoms after loss. Access here Hirschberger G. (2018). Collective Trauma an d the Social Construction of Meaning. Frontiers in psychology, 9, 1441. Access here Kamis, et al. (2024). Childhood maltreatment associated with adolescent peer networks: Withdrawal, avoidance, and fragmentation. Access here Lehrner, et al. (2014). Maternal PTSD associates with greater glucocorticoid sensitivity in offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here Maier & Seligman. (2016). Learned helplessness at fifty: Insights from neuroscience. Access here Sheehy, et al. (2019). An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here. Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. Call the NAMI HelpLine: 1-800-950-6264 available Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. – 10 p.m., ET. OR text "HelpLine" to 62640 or email NAMI at helpline@nami.org. Visit NAMI for more. You can also call or text SAMHSA at 988 or chat 988lifeline.org.

Grief doesn't wait for loss to arrive. Sometimes it shows up early — sitting beside you while someone you love is still right there. That's anticipatory grief, and if you've ever felt your mind drift to a future without someone while they're still in the room, you already know it. In this episode of Joy Lab, Dr. Henry Emmons and Dr. Aimee Prasek explore the Eighth Gate of Grief: the grief, stress, anxiety, and dread that can accompany an expected loss — whether that's a terminal diagnosis, a parent's cognitive decline, a marriage ending, or even broader fears about the world your kids will inherit. Anticipatory grief can be a mentally and emotionally exhausting experience, and it doesn't get nearly enough airtime in conversations about mental health. Importantly, this episode won't tell you how to stop anticipatory grief — because you shouldn't. Research suggests it can actually support healing. What it will give you: science-backed tools for staying present, a simple framework for saying what matters most before it's too late, and honest guidance on sustaining yourself through anticipatory grief. If anxiety, depression, or stress around future loss is weighing on you — or someone you love — this one's for you. This episode is part of a 10-part series on grief. You can jump in here and circle back to Episode 248 when you're ready. p.s. Find a Simple Joy practice for this episode right here at our blog. About: The Joy Lab Podcast is an Ambie-nominated podcast that blends science and soul to help you cope better with stress, anxiety, and depression. It's hosted by integrative psychiatrist Dr. Henry Emmons and holistic mental health researcher Dr. Aimee Prasek. The podcast is best paired with the Joy Lab Program. Bonus: spread some joy and keep this podcast ad-free by donating (Joy Lab is powered by the nonprofit Pathways North and your donations are tax-deductible). Listen & follow the Joy Lab Podcast on your favorite listening app: Spotify | Apple | YouTube Like and follow Joy Lab on Socials: Instagram | LinkedIn Watch on YouTube Key moments: [00:00] — Introduction to the Eighth Gate: Anticipatory Grief [00:45] — What anticipatory grief is: the grief we feel in advance of an expected loss — terminal illness, dementia, a marriage ending, fears about the future of our planet or our children's world [01:00] — The extra "frosting" of this gate: dread, helplessness, and worry about what hasn't happened yet [01:15] — Anticipatory grief and cancer [02:30] — Anticipatory grief and Alzheimer's [04:00] — "We are apprentices to our grief, every time" — on never mastering grief, only practicing it [05:00] — FOBO: Fear Of Being Over — an earlier Joy Lab concept that connects to anticipatory grief and the pull away from the present moment [05:45] — Normalizing anticipatory grief: the goal is not to stop it, but to understand it [06:15] — The science: research on anticipatory grief shows it can actually be helpful — those who grieved some before a spouse died tended to have better outcomes afterward [07:30] — The void that often hits a month after a loss, when others return to their lives; how anticipatory grieving can build a support network that remains [08:00] — Anticipatory grief and early-onset Alzheimer's [13:45] — What anticipatory grief is really about: acceptance; facing truth instead of pushing it away [14:15] — Recognizing avoidance [14:45] — Anticipatory grief as a gift: time to say what needs to be said, to be present differently, to love fully even while grieving [15:15] — Practicing loving fully amidst grief; being kind to yourself about grieving while the person is still present; holding both the grief of the future and the goodness of the present — they can happen at the same time [16:45] — The Four Things That Matter Most (Dr. Ira Byock, hospice physician): Please forgive me. I forgive you. Thank you. I love you. [17:15] — Why saying these things — even imperfectly — creates completion and reduces regret [19:15] — The gift anticipatory grief offers that sudden loss cannot: the chance to share grief with someone, say the four things, have the conversation together [20:00] — Tending to your own wellbeing during anticipatory grief; checking your energy and nourishment levels; you have to take breaks, let people help, do nourishing things for yourself — it's not selfish, it's sustainable [21:45] — Small ways to refuel: a walk, a phone call, sitting outside, noticing breath; don't wait until you're depleted — build it in now; Letting people support you; they often want to help but don't know how — be specific; "Can you bring dinner Tuesday? Can you sit with her while I go to the store?" [22:30] — Anticipatory grief is a marathon, not a sprint; pace yourself; stepping back to breathe and enjoy lightness is not denial — it's wisdom [23:30] — Closing quote from Rilke: "Let everything happen to you: beauty and terror. Just keep going. No feeling is final." Sources and Notes for this full grief series: Joy Lab Program: Take the next leap in your wellbeing journey with step-by-step practices to help you build and maintain the elements of joy in your life. Grief Series: The Grief Series: The Wholeness of Being Human [part 1, ep 248] Everything We Love, We Will Lose: Navigating the First Gate of Grief[part 2, ep 249] Welcoming Back the Parts of You That Have Not Known Love [part 3, ep 250] Why You Can't Escape the Sorrows of the World (and why that's a good thing) [part 4, ep 251] Born to Belong: Grieving What Should Have Been There From the Start [part 5, ep 252] Breaking the Cycle: Ancestral Grief, Epigenetics, and the Power to Change Your Legacy [part 6, ep 253] How Facing the Harm You've Done Can Set You Free [part 7, ep 254] How the World's Pain Enters Your Body and What to Do Next [part 8, ep 255] Related Episodes: Savoring the Present and Overcoming FOBO (it's kinda like FOMO...) [ep 45] Wild Edge of Sorrow by Francis Weller The Four Things That Matter Most by Ira Byock, M.D. Beckes & Sbarra, Social baseline theory: State of the science and new directions. Access here Beckes, et al. (2011). 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An examination of the relationship between shame, guilt and self-harm: A systematic review and meta-analysis. Access here Strathearn, et al. (2020). Long-term Cognitive, Psychological, and Health Outcomes Associated With Child Abuse and Neglect. Access here Yehuda et al. (1998). Vulnerability to posttraumatic stress disorder in adult offspring of Holocaust survivors. Access here. Yehuda, et al. (2018). Intergenerational transmission of trauma effects: putative role of epigenetic mechanisms. Access here Full transcript here Please remember that this content is for informational and educational purposes only. It is not intended to provide medical advice and is not a replacement for advice and treatment from a medical professional. Please consult your doctor or other qualified health professional before beginning any diet change, supplement, or lifestyle program. Please see our terms for more information. If you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. 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