Legwork

A focused guide to using heat training during winter—why it works, what adaptations you’re actually chasing, and how to implement sauna, hot water immersion, or layering protocols safely and strategically.Heat training is usually framed as something you do before a hot race. But the physiological adaptations don’t care what month it is. Plasma volume expansion, improved thermal regulation, and cardiovascular efficiency can all support training during winter—even if race day will be cold.This episode is an edited and streamlined version of Episode 4, where we originally covered heat training in depth. Here, we’ve removed the broader discussion of racing in hot environments and narrowed the focus to one question: How can runners use heat protocols intentionally during winter training to enhance performance?Episode DescriptionThis episode is a practical, research-backed breakdown of how to apply heat training protocols during winter running.Matt and Molly revisit the primary studies that shaped their understanding of heat adaptation, then walk through:Why heat training matters beyond hot race preparationThe physiological mechanisms behind heat adaptationsThe three core methods for inducing heat stressHow to implement layering, sauna, and hot water immersion during winterHow long adaptations last and how to maintain themWhen to schedule heat exposure within a training cycleKey safety considerations to avoid digging a recovery holeRather than treating heat training as seasonal, this episode reframes it as a tool. One that, when applied carefully, can support cardiovascular development, resilience, and recovery during winter blocks when training quality matters most.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding01:11 Context for Episode And Focus On Heat Training Protocols During Winter Training02:23 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For This Episode03:57 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training06:39 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging11:41 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances13:30 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training14:37 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations16:46 Protocol by Protocol Analysis17:09 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment36:28 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps38:39 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations41:01 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations46:03 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations48:26 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training52:31 Safety Considerations When Heat TrainingTop 5 TakeawaysHeat training is not just for hot races.The adaptations—plasma volume expansion, improved cardiovascular efficiency, and thermoregulation—can support winter training blocks as well.Layering and passive heat exposure are often the most practical winter tools.You don’t need a hot climate. Strategic layering during runs or post-workout sauna/HWI can induce meaningful adaptations.The goal is controlled stress, not exhaustion.You’re chasing adaptation, not dehydration or glycogen depletion. Overdoing it can compromise recovery.Adaptations are transient but quickly re-established.Benefits can fade within roughly two weeks without exposure, but can often be restored in just a few sessions.Safety matters more in winter than people think.Heat protocols layered onto hard winter training can create cumulative stress. Hydration, fueling, iron status, and recovery awareness are essential.

A live conversation with Nick Thompson on curiosity, endurance, and a complicated relationship with both a father and the simplest of sports: running.This conversation between Nick Thompson and David Alm, a Brooklyn-based journalist, professor, and runner, offers a window to Nick’s process in writing The Running Ground, and to the people, stories, and moments that made it into the final draft and what didn't. Recorded live at Bakline’s HQ, the episode captures Nick in dialogue rather than interview, reflecting with David on the journalistic process, the discipline of editing, and the characters in his life, most notably his father, who shaped the person he has become.There is much to be gained from reading or listening to The Running Ground, the audio version of which Nick himself narrates. Its opening chapter alone should be required reading for anyone preparing to step onto the New York City Marathon starting line. What emerges in this rare and candid conversation, though, is something broader: a meditation on perspective and curiosity, and on how our understanding of our own abilities shifts over time.Along the way, Nick reflects on his relationship with his father and the role running has played in his ability to build and maintain a truly exceptional life, offering insight on how the sport can not only facilitate escape and drive, but also help us make sense of the world.At its core, this conversation speaks to the importance of paying attention: to our bodies, to the relationships we build, and to the quiet ways we can learn to embrace all that makes us who we are–rather than trying to outrun it.Special thanks to the Brooklyn Greenway Initiative and The Atlantic for their support of this event.Chapter List:00:00 Introduction and Background04:43 The Journey of Writing The Running Ground10:14 Exploring Personal Connections and Themes21:16 The Editorial Process: Structure and Format24:14 The Editorial Process: The People Who Have Entered Nick's Life and Imparted Key Lessons30:18 Writing About Yourself Journalistically36:50 The Pain of Running and Broader Life Lessons 42:19 The Endurance Of Running and Its Impact on Nick45:20 Approaching Running with Undying Curiosity50:23 Pushing Limits: Personal Records and Race Experiences53:54 Cultural Influences on Running and Personal Growth55:13 Q&A: Current State of Running Culture58:51 Q&A: Fatherhood, Relationships, and Emotional Connections01:02:09 Q&A: Media Industry Insights and the Role of Running01:02:44 Q&A: Nick's Personal Pursuits and Current State of Media01:07:55 Q&A: Exploring Personal Archives and Memoir Writing01:11:18 Q&A: Recommended Running Literature01:12:44 Q&A: Evolving Running Goals With Age01:18:25 Q&A: Favorite Greenway Runs and Community Engagement01:20:58 Promoting the Book and Final ThoughtsKey TakeawaysPerspective shapes ability One of the central insights of the conversation is that limits are often internal before they are physical. Nick’s experience shows how a shift in perspective can unlock capacities we didn’t realize were still available.Endurance is less about toughness and more about attentionRunning emerges not as an exercise in brute force, but as a practice in listening to your body, and to your pain. The same attentiveness applies beyond sport, shaping how we can move through work and stress.Understanding a parent often requires time, distance, and reconstructionNick’s reflections on his father are not about resolution, but context. Through diaries, archives, interviews, and memory, he comes to see how running helped his father hold together a complicated life.Curiosity sustains long arcs better than optimizationWhether in running, writing, or navigating change at a major organization, curiosity proves more enduring than a fixation on outcomes.

A clear, grounded look at strength training for runners—what to do, how to start, and why the gym doesn’t need to feel overwhelming.Strength training is supposed to make running feel better—stronger legs, sturdier tendons, fewer injuries. But for a lot of runners, it does the opposite: it sparks stress, uncertainty, and that familiar urge to skip the gym entirely. The machines look confusing, the weights look heavy, and the fear of “doing it wrong” becomes its own workout.In this episode, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to make strength training feel genuinely approachable. They break down how muscles, tendons, and bones adapt, why “bulking up” isn’t something runners need to fear, and how simple, consistent lifting can support your running without adding pressure.`From navigating the weight room with confidence to choosing weights, reps, and routines that make sense, this conversation reframes strength work as something you can fit into your training with a clear and practical roadmap—not something to stress over.Exercise Cheatsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18lD9J0t1QrNQXjoqioAkNn1xav_LSUoycuuMSZcBcng/edit?usp=sharingEpisode DescriptionIn this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with physical therapist Cuyler Hudson to cover a ton of practical information for newbies and reminders for veterans. Together, they demystify strength training for runners—what to do, how to start, and why the gym doesn’t need to feel intimidating. Together, they explore the fundamentals of building stronger muscles, bones, and tendons, while breaking down the mental and practical barriers that keep so many runners from lifting in the first place.They cover:Why strength training helps runners from tendon stiffness and bone density to fatigue resistance and better formMyths that hold runners backHow to feel less intimidated in the gymUsing machines vs. dumbbellsSingle-leg work and why it matters with increased stability, and better balanceHow to pick weights and reps when understanding your RPEPlyometrics made simpleHome and hotel workouts that work when you don’t have access to a gymCreatine for runners and what it does and doesn't helpFootwear for lifting and why running shoes often work against you in the weight roomHow to fit strength into a training cycle including hard-day/hard-day pairingThe Necessity of Multi-planar movementChapter List00:00 Introduction to Cuyler Hudson02:24 Overview Of The Episode: The Benefits of Strength for Runners, Making the Gym More Approachable, And What To Do When You Get There03:53 The Benefits of Strength For Runners Across Muscles, Bones, and Tendons08:57 Debunking Common Myths About Strength For Runners: Bulking Up and Slowing Down15:06 Impact of Strength Training on Running Performance21:15 Reducing the Mental and Physical Barriers of Entry in Getting Into and Moving About The Gym22:23 Using Machines vs. Free Weights25:21 The Importance of Single Leg Exercises27:56 Addressing the Fear of Asking Questions About The Gym and Turning To ChatGPT for Answers33:28 Understanding Weight Selection for Beginners39:37 Progressing in Strength Training: Reps and Weights. How much is too much or too little.42:43 Home Workouts: Effective Exercises Without a Gym49:55 Bodyweight Exercises, Hotel Workouts, and Where Yoga and Breathing Fit In57:42 Fueling and Hydration for Strength Training01:02:21 Understanding Creatine and Its Benefits In the Weight Room Or On The Road01:05:26 Fueling for Performance: Nutrition and Hydration, What We Should Do and Avoid01:08:34 Choosing the Right Footwear for Lifting01:10:38 Understanding Different Workout Types And Workout Set Construction01:17:00 Layering In Strength Training Program Into A Running Training Cycle01:20:34 Off-Season Strength Training Strategies And Time Till You See Results01:23:34 Ensuring you Do Multi-Planar Movements01:26:38 Addressing Strength and Endurance Interference

Bakline’s guide to tackling the TCS NYC Marathon—section by section, from the Verrazzano to Central Park.It starts early—hours before the start gun—with runners moving through the slow ritual of getting to Staten Island. The ferry’s crowded and buzzing, the buses crawl through traffic, and everyone’s half awake, half anxious, wondering if they packed enough snacks. It’s all part of the race before the race. Matt and Molly break down what that morning really feels like, and how to handle every stretch of the TCS New York City Marathon once you finally hit hear the cannon that sets you on your way.Episode DescriptionIn this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly take runners mile by mile through the world’s most iconic marathon: New York City. Drawing on their personal experiences and coaching insights, they unpack every element of race day—from pre-dawn logistics on Staten Island to the emotional charge of entering Central Park.Matt and Molly cover the practical details that make or break a smooth race morning—timing breakfast, navigating transport, managing nerves, and adjusting for daylight savings—before diving deep into a section-by-section course strategy. From the Verrazzano Bridge to First Avenue to the final turn onto Central Park South, they share what to expect, where to hold back, and how to find rhythm amid the crowds.Whether it’s your first time running New York or your tenth, this episode gives you the insider perspective to approach the course with confidence, calm, and respect for the challenge.NOTE: This podcast episode is not affiliated in any way with New York Road Runners nor do we claim any association or ownership related to their trademarks. This is an informational discussion about the race by Bakline, based on our experience and not as an official spokesperson for the organization that puts on the marathon.Chapter List00:00 Introduction and Personal Experiences with the New York City Marathon06:58 Course Strategy Overview and Key Elements07:44 Getting to Staten Island09:02 Timing Your Breakfasts and Remembering Daylight Savings11:23 Race Morning Checklist13:30 Getting to The Start: The Ferry18:21 Getting to The Start: The Bus20:56 Navigating Athletes / Starting Village25:26 Starting Line Wave Times28:02 The Course: Overall Elevation Profile30:30 The Course: (1) Navigating the Verrazano Bridge34:51 The Course: (2) Exiting the Verrazzano, Converging with Others, and Fourth Ave37:49 The Course: (3) Lafayette Through The Half44:45 The Course: (4) Queens and The Queensboro Bridge50:36 The Course: (5) First Ave, Heading to the Bronx56:49 The Course: (6) The Boogie Down Bronx Experience59:08 The Course: (7) Returning to Manhattan, Marcus Garvey Park, And the Dreaded 5th Avenue Hill01:02:57 The Course: (8) Entering Central Park!01:05:42 The Course: (9) Exiting The Park, Central Park South, and the Finish!

More than America’s oldest ultramarathon, the JFK 50 endures because of the kindness, community, and love that Mike Spinnler has nurtured across generations.Most races don’t last six decades. Every November, the JFK 50 unfolds across the Appalachian Trail, a canal towpath, and country roads as a 50-mile test that has become the oldest continuously running ultramarathon in the United States. But what makes it endure isn’t just the course or its history. It’s the people who return year after year, the community that shows up in droves to ensure this race will not quit, and the race director who has quietly shaped it for more than three decades as only the second in its history.Mike Spinnler has been at the heart of the JFK 50 as runner, champion, and steward, carrying forward a tradition that continues to inspire generations. He is, in many ways, the archetype of a role model. In this conversation, we reflect on how the course has shaped the athletes who run it, the volunteers who support it, and the man who has devoted his life to directing it.Episode Description:In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly sit down with Mike Spinnler, race director of the JFK 50, the oldest continuously run ultramarathon in the United States. They explore how the race has endured for more than 60 years — and why it continues to inspire across generations.Together, they cover:Mike’s journey from 12-year-old participant to champion, and eventually to race directorThe stewardship lessons he learned from Buzz Sawyer and Greg Shank, and how he carries their legacy forwardHow kindness, community, and love have shaped the race as much as rules, permits, and logisticsThe role of volunteers, families, and local communities in sustaining the JFK 50The balance between tradition and change — from aid stations and cutoffs to super shoes and evolving strategiesThe challenges of race directing: from financial risk to government shutdowns, blizzards, and even the Beltway sniperWhat inspires Mike personally, and how he knows, without any doubt, the JFK 50 will thrive long after he steps asideWhether you’re a seasoned ultrarunner, a first-time marathoner, or someone who simply cares about what makes communities strong, this episode offers an inside look at why the JFK 50 is more than just a race — it’s a living legacy.Chapter List00:00 Introduction to JFK 50 and Mike Spinnler Journey08:51 Mike's Early Running Experiences and Influences13:52 Transitioning to Competitive Running, And Winning the JFK5023:47 Becoming the Race Director of JFK 50, And How Having the Best Partner Helps30:39 How the JFK Keeps Going35:58 The Importance of a Team Behind You And Delegation39:13 Resilience and Persistence in the Face of Persistent and Resilient Challenges42:56 Navigating Change and Tradition45:33 The Role of Aid Stations in Leveling The Playing Field53:58 The Famous 3 x 10m Marathon Paced (In a Day) Workout01:00:57 Approaching Mike's Directing of the JFK50 More As A Coach Than An Administrator01:05:10 Impact of Shoe Technology01:06:52 Weaverton Cliffs And Watching Your Step01:08:10 Navigating the Appalachian Trail01:10:09 The Magic Of JFK50 Aid Stations And Volunteer Community01:18:02 Advice for New Runners of the JFK5001:24:37 For Mike, the JFK50 is like Christmas Morning And He's Excited To See What Will Happen01:27:09 Supporting Runners Through ALL Paces, Not Just The Leaders01:30:00 The Personal Impact of Race Directing And The Obligation Mike Feels To Those That Have Not Experienced The Race01:35:08 Spontaneous Selflessness and Humanity Is All Around01:39:38 Reflecting On How JFK50 Has Changed Him, The Power of Sports, And Giving Back01:48:38 Advice Time: The Inside Tips On A Successful JFK5002:02:23 Final Reflections

A practical guide to heat training for endurance runners —why it works, the science behind it, and how to apply protocols to boost performance year-round.Most non-elite endurance athletes are leaving performance gains on the table. Heat training—often dismissed as something you only do before a hot race—is one of the most misunderstood and underutilized tools in the sport. Done right, it can boost cardiovascular capacity, improve recovery, and prepare you to train harder for longer—no matter the conditions on race day.In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly explore the overlooked benefits and surprising versatility of heat training. Through stories from their own racing and coaching, they show how it can be more than a summer survival skill—it’s a year-round performance weapon hiding in plain sight.Episode DescriptionThis episode is your practical, research-backed guide to heat training—covering nearly everything an endurance athlete needs to know to apply it effectively and safely.Matt and Molly break down the most up-to-date science on how heat affects performance, the physiological adaptations you’re aiming for, and the three proven methods to achieve them:​Training in hot environments to closely mimic race conditions​Layering to simulate heat when the weather won’t cooperate​Passive post-workout heat exposure like saunas or hot-water immersionThey explain how to choose the right method for your situation—or make the most of the method you have available—and how to time it so benefits carry through to your race. You’ll also learn how long adaptations last, how to maintain them, and what to watch for in hydration, fueling, and recovery to avoid setbacks. Whether your target race is hot, cool, or somewhere in between, this episode gives you the tools to use heat training with precision—and see results when it matters most.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Heat Training and Personal Experiences Driving Our Understanding05:49 The Primary Studies We Reviewed In Preparation For Our Heat Training Episode08:05 Major Reasons Why You Should Care About Heat Training12:42 Why Running In The Heat Is Challenging20:21 Anecdotal Experience with Heat Training In Recent Ultra Performances23:28 The Three Heat Training Methods We Cover and General Physiological Benefits of Heat Training28:32 Thermal Regulation and Adaptations31:12 Protocol by Protocol Analysis32:53 Protocol 1: Training In A Hot Environment46:06 Protocol 2: Adding Layers to Augment Heat of The Natural Environment01:06:39 Protocol 3: Hot Dry Sauna and Hot Water Immersion (HWI) - Actual Implementation Steps01:10:48 Protocol 3: Hot Sauna Benefits and Considerations01:14:17 Protocol 3: How Water Immersion (HWI) Benefits and Considerations01:19:35 Maintaining Heat Training Adaptations01:22:56 Timing and Strategy for Heat Training01:27:20 Safety Considerations When Heat TrainingTop 5 Takeaways​Heat training is underutilized by most non-elite athletes—and can deliver benefits year-round, not just for hot races.​Three general methods to consider, some with higher efficacy than others but all can practically aid you: hot-environment training, layering to simulate heat, and passive heat exposure post-workout.​Core adaptations include increased plasma volume, earlier/more efficient sweating, electrolyte conservation, and lower core temperature.​Adaptations fade quickly—often within two weeks without exposure—but can be restored in as little as two days.​Safety is critical: hydrate before and after, adjust fueling for greater glycogen use, and be aware of individual risks like anemia.

In this episode of Legwork, Matt and Molly go beyond the numbers to unpack what makes a training plan actually work—and why most of them miss the mark for the average runner. Built as a companion to our in-depth blog series on the Bakline site, this episode is a practical and honest guide to evaluating your plan, understanding the purpose behind workouts, and making modifications that are both smart and sustainable. Whether you’re a first-time half-marathoner or a seasoned marathoner chasing a PR, this conversation gives you the tools to stop blindly following plans and start training with intention.We also introduce a four-step framework that anchors the episode: assess the course, evaluate your current fitness (and physiology), build the right mileage and long run structure, and then add intensity with purpose. Along the way, we tackle misunderstood concepts like the 80/20 rule, threshold training, and why “advanced” doesn’t always mean “faster.” From injury prevention to long run strategy, fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch muscle types to recovery timing, this episode is loaded with practical examples, real coaching insight, and lessons we’ve learned the hard way. The full chapter list is below—so feel free to jump around, but we think it’s worth the full listen.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Matt + Molly As Coaches and The Perspectives They Bring05:35 Understanding Training Plans Generally and Their Importance08:59 Who this episode is for? (Hint: almost anyone can get something out of this)12:18 Understanding The Objective of The Workout, Not Just The Numbers13:24 Why Most Off The Shelf Plans Let You Down, And Why The Ability To Evaluate Your Plan Is Critical To Being a Better Athlete20:41 General Types of Modifications You Can Make Once You Have Evaluated Your Pln29:32 Four Key Steps: Assessing the Course, Honestly Understanding Yourself, Determine Overall Mileage, and Add Intensity 31:03 Step 1: Assessing the Course39:13 Step 2: Honestly Understanding Yourself and Assessing Your Current Fitness49:24 Muscle Fiber Types, Determining How You Might Skew (Fast or Slow Twitch) and Considering That In Your Training Plan Construction59:12 Step 3: Determining Overall Mileage and Your Long Run01:01:39 Incorrect Workout Execution Could Lead to Perception of an Incorrect Plan (And Injury)01:05:43 The 80/20 Rule. Why We Think It Is A Good Rule Of Thumb (Even Though We Don't Like Most Rules of Thumb) And Importance Of Easy Miles01:10:21 Two Major Levers To Pull That Increase Volume: Frequency (More Days) and Duration (Longer Runs)01:16:40 Long Run Considerations and Progression01:17:41 Adding In The Long Run: How Many, How Long, And What % of The Week It Should Be01:29:50 Step 4: Adding Intensity (The 20%), Key Terminology And Understanding Your Threshold Pace01:35:29 Digging Into Types of Intensity To Consider In Your Plan01:38:23 Coming Full Circle To That 80/20 Rule - Brining It All Together01:42:22 Use Case #1: Illustrating How We Get To 20%01:46:03 Use Case #2: Catching When an A Workout Does Not Make Sense01:47:15 Summary And Key Takeaways01:53:07 Looking Ahead To Part Two Of This Podcast: Specific WorkoutsTop 4 Takeaways1. Your Training Plan Wasn’t Written for You—So Make It YoursMost plans are generic. If you're not adjusting for your race, fitness, and schedule, you're following someone else’s roadmap.2. Understanding the Why Beats Hitting the PaceDon’t just follow numbers—know the goal. When you understand what threshold feels like, you can adapt without derailing your training.3. It’s Not Just Mileage—It’s the Ratio That MattersThe 80/20 rule works. Most of your weekly volume should be easy. Going too hard too often—even on low mileage—can set you back. We're ready to debate those who say otherwise.4. Know How You’re Wired (Fast Twitch? Slow Twitch?)Your physiology matters. Fast-twitch athletes fatigue and recover differently. Smart plans account for those differences.

00:00 Questions We Ponder00:51 What is podcast Legwork all about, and what types of conversations will we have?01:26 What does every episode of Legwork aim to achieve?02:03 When and where can you listen to Legwork?Every runner has had questions they didn't know exactly how to how do I evaluate a training plan actually life? What's the smartest way to in the heat? How do I get myself mentally through that last part of a race? And what does a crew really need to do and know when supporting an ultra marathon runner?We have those questions too! And as the owners of an apparel brand, as coaches and as members of the running community, we hear them all the time. How do you start and sustain a running club that doesn't just burn out after a season? What's the current state of women's running media and how do we make it better? And how can we support and hold on to more female coaches? Some of the most important work, whether it's the work we do as runners or as leaders that drive our sport, is not always visible.Legwork is a podcast that celebrates the unseen efforts that keep the sport of running moving forward. We go behind the scenes with club leaders, race directors, coaches, and scientists to explore the why and how of the work that makes running what it is.These are long form conversations that favor nuance over noise and intention over aesthetics. Because doing the work is messy and hard, but too often glossed over or made to seem easy. We're not here to deliver clickbait or sound bites. We're here to take our time, ask better questions and listen with curiosity.In every episode, we promise to bring you something practical, insightful, inspiring. Something that helps you think and run further and feel more connected to the work that matters, no matter who's doing it or where it takes place.We don't have sponsors, just us! And Bakline! It's where we've put in the work, building a brand, growing a community, coaching athletes and supporting great people and organizations. It's something we've built from scratch none of it has been easy. But that's exactly why we started this show, because the work that happens behind the scenes deserves more space, more credit and much more conversation.Episodes drop every other Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.So subscribe to Legwork because working hard doesn't always mean being seen, doing the Legwork without shortcuts is the forward.