Listening to America

Host David Horton debriefs Clay on his recent cultural tour of the National Monuments of the Four Corners area. Clay teamed up with his friend Dr. Susan Ryan to visit Mesa Verde National Park, Bears Ears National Monument, and Canyon of the Ancients National Monument with a group of 20 participants from across the U.S. The goal was to explore the history and current status of America's National Monuments in the wake of President Trump's executive orders reducing the size of Bears Ears by more than 90%. Susan Ryan was an outstanding cultural tour lead, explaining how Southwestern archaeology is changing in the 21st century to show much greater respect for Indigenous communities. Clay performed as the 26th president, Theodore Roosevelt, and helped lead discussions of the 1906 Antiquities Act text and its several important ambiguities. This episode was recorded on October 9, 2025.

Author and explorer Denis Belliveau talks with Clay about his epic journey along the entire Silk Road in the footsteps of Marco Polo. Polo (ca. 1254-1324) traveled from Venice to the far end of China between 1271 and 1295 AD. He visited Kublai Khan in the legendary Xanadu. Denis Belliveau and his traveling companion, Francis O'Donnell, needed 70 visas to make the immense journey, none of it by airplane, much of it on foot, horse, camel, and such fortunate rides they could cadge along the way. They traveled with what Belliveau calls "reckless bravado and a lot of testosterone," through Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Tibet, and China, among other nations. They were, so far as anyone knows, the first people ever to retrace the entire Marco Polo journey. The result was a PBS documentary and excellent book, In the Footsteps of Marco Polo. You can also learn more at his website: In the Footsteps. This episode was recorded on April 8, 2026.

Clay's conversation with historian Jim Rasenberger, the author of "A Perfect Coincidence: The Extraordinary Friendship and Astonishing Deaths of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson." Jefferson and Adams collaborated on the Declaration of Independence in 1776, served together as diplomats in France for the United States in the 1780s, and cherished each other's friendship. Then the heated politics of their time came between them, until by 1800, they were enemies. Fortunately, they patched their friendship back together when they were safely retired from public life and died on the same day, the Fourth of July 1826, in lovely harmony, one in Virginia, the other in Massachusetts. This episode was recorded on May 22, 2026.

Clay interviews David Osborne, author of the 1992 bestseller Reinventing Government, about the challenges of the American public education system. How well are we preparing young people for the mid-21st century? Why is the United States slipping behind many other nations in educational metrics? David has spent the last few years focused on how we can reinvent public education. His new documentary film Turnaround: The Reinvention of the New Orleans Public Education System chronicles the astonishing success of charter schools in historically problematic school districts. How much does the survival of our republic depend on better schools for all Americans? This episode was recorded on April 27, 2026.

Clay interviews Richard Battle of Texas about his series of books about the can-do spirit of America. Three of the books tell feel-good stories of character and gumption in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries. Mr. Battle believes that the current malaise in the American spirit is caused by a weak education system that fails to tell the story of how much America has achieved and against what odds. When we are tempted to criticize America, Mr. Battle asks, "compared to what?" What other country has as much freedom and opportunity as still exists in the United States? He regards George Washington as the greatest American for holding the independence movement together against nearly impossible odds. He forgives Jefferson for his failures in the larger context of his achievement in the Declaration of Independence. This episode was recorded on July 21, 2026.

Clay interviews Dr. Ben Abbott of Brigham Young University about the crisis of Great Salt Lake. Great Salt Lake is a terminal lake, which means that water comes in but does not flow out. It's a remnant of ancient Lake Bonneville. The volume of the lake is now down by 70% and the surface area it covers is down 60%. Abbott believes we are not more than half a dozen years from the lake's ecological collapse, which would severely damage the brine shrimp industry, expose a large number of toxic chemicals to the Utah winds with devastating effects on human health, and severely impair Utah's important winter ski industry. The good news is that Dr. Abbott believes we can solve this problem and that the people of Utah are sufficiently aware of the crisis to make the lifestyle changes (none dire) that will save and refresh the lake. Ben Abbott says a U.N. agency has recently declared a Global Water Bankruptcy, but that saving Great Salt Lake can serve as a template for a much wider set of water-use reforms in the United States and beyond. This episode was recorded on July 23, 2026.

Clay's conversation with Italian journalist Marzio Mian about his new book, Volga Blues: A Journey into the Heart of Russia. Mian and his photographer spent four weeks following the Volga River from its source northwest of Moscow to its mouth on the Caspian Sea. The Volga River is considered the mother and the flowing heart of Russia. Traveling by car with two sometimes dubious Russian guides, Marzio and his partner attempted to stay below the radar of the paranoid Russian government, now grinding through its fourth year of war against its neighbor, Ukraine. In this extraordinary interview, Marzio explains that the Russian people don't see the world as we do in the West. They believe they are fighting a defensive war in Ukraine against NATO, Europe, and the U.S., defending the sacred homeland from western aggression, territorial ambition, and cultural decadence. His goal was to encounter ordinary Russian people, to learn how they see the war in Ukraine, how they view Vladimir Putin now, in the 26th year of his dictatorship, and how they regard the Volga River, the spiritual artery of an ancient and mysterious civilization. This episode was recorded on February 14, 2026.