Listening to America

Clay welcomes one of his favorite guests, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, to talk about America at 250. Many Americans are bewildered and frightened by the current state of the Union, unsure how things got so partisan and paralyzed. Instead of offering our personal opinions on the current crisis, we, as historians, attempt to contextualize the present moment within the broad sweep of American history, beginning, of course, with the Founding Fathers. What would Adams and Jefferson say about the world of 2026? Would they be disappointed with us? And what would they urge us to reform as we move forward into the next fifty, one hundred, and two hundred fifty years? And Clay asked Lindsay to point to the Golden Age of American life. You may be surprised by her answer.

From Devils Tower in northwestern Wyoming, Host David Horton and Clay Jenkinson discuss Theodore Roosevelt's conservation achievements. When the National Monuments and Antiquities Act was passed in 1906, President Roosevelt lost no time in setting aside what would become 18 National Monuments, starting with Devils Tower just west of the Black Hills. Roosevelt had little to do with the creation of the Antiquities Act, but he made the most of it, culminating in his colossal designation of Grand Canyon National Monument in 1908. In the course of his two-term presidency, Roosevelt set aside a whopping 230 million acres of National Park, National Forest, National Monument, National Wildlife Refuge, and National Game Preserve. No president has done more. David asked Clay to outline his three-phase Roosevelt conservation tour for 2026. First, South Dakota, Wyoming, and Colorado; later, Montana and Idaho; and in the fall, all of Roosevelt's conservation designations in the Four Corners region of the Southwest.

Host David Horton interviews Thomas Jefferson about freedom of expression in America. Did the Founding Fathers know what they were doing when they ratified the extraordinary First Amendment of the Constitution? What limits, if any, should there be in the expression of ideas in a free society? When, if ever, can government suppress press freedom? What protections do American citizens have against malicious attacks on their character? When Jefferson retires and humanities scholar Clay Jenkinson takes the microphone, Horton asks Clay about the final episode of Stephen Colbert's Late Show, which among other things, gave Paul McCartney the last word with a fabulous rendition of the Beatles song "Hello-Goodbye."

Clay's conversation with Italian journalist Marzio Mian about his new book, Volga Blues: A Journey into the Heart of Russia. Mian and his photographer spent four weeks following the Volga River from its source northwest of Moscow to its mouth on the Caspian Sea. The Volga River is considered the mother and the flowing heart of Russia. Traveling by car with two sometimes dubious Russian guides, Marzio and his partner attempted to stay below the radar of the paranoid Russian government, now grinding through its fourth year of war against its neighbor, Ukraine. In this extraordinary interview, Marzio explains that the Russian people don't see the world as we do in the West. They believe they are fighting a defensive war in Ukraine against NATO, Europe, and the U.S., defending the sacred homeland from western aggression, territorial ambition, and cultural decadence. His goal was to encounter ordinary Russian people, to learn how they see the war in Ukraine, how they view Vladimir Putin now, in the 26th year of his dictatorship, and how they regard the Volga River, the spiritual artery of an ancient and mysterious civilization. This episode was recorded on February 14, 2026.

Clay interviews the award-winning historian Joe Ellis about America's tragic legacy of slavery, and about the dispossession of American Indians from their sovereign homelands. Professor Ellis has often argued that what happened with respect to African Americans was Shakespearean tragedy — in other words, if the better angels of American life had prevailed, things might have turned out differently; but that the dispossession and cultural genocide America wrought with Native Americans was probably inevitable. Clay has repeatedly challenged that view, and Joe Ellis suggested that Listening to America feature a serious discussion of how things might have turned out differently in both cultural intersections. The problem of what Clay calls "the Myth of Inevitability" is that it lets white America off the hook. If it could not have turned out any other way, perhaps we don't need to wring our hands too much. It's a critical discussion of agency and complicity in America's problematic history. This episode was recorded on December 15, 2025.

Clay interviews the adventurous Brits Nat and Mikey, school teachers who got it into their heads to float the entire Missouri and Mississippi River corridor. They began on August 5, 2025, and completed their journey in the second week of January 2026. They floated more than 3,000 miles from Three Forks, Montana, to the Gulf of Mexico, where they pulled their canoe out of the water for the last time. When Clay caught up with them in mid-January, they were luxuriating in a New Orleans hotel. But the big news is that Nat and Mikey's great adventure is not over! They are now going to hitchhike to California, then fly to South America for further exploration. Towards the end of the podcast, they tried Velveeta for the first time, with the usual British condescension towards one of America's great food groups. This episode was recorded on January 18, 2025.

Clay joins author John U. Bacon of Ann Arbor, Michigan, whose book, The Gales of November: The Untold Story of the Edmund Fitzgerald, takes a new look at the sinking of the Fitzgerald on November 10, 1975. Four years in the making, Bacon's research unearthed new material on the catastrophe, in which all 29 crew members (all men) perished when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. Was there crew error or hubris in Captain Ernest McSorley? Was the great 729-foot ship structurally unsound? Or was it just a perfect storm? The winds rose to 100 miles per hour that day, and the waves were sometimes 60 feet or more high. The Fitzgerald settled on the bottom of Lake Superior more than 500 feet below the surface. It has been visited several times since, but the Canadian government, whose territorial waters the incident occurred in, severely restricts visitation because it regards it as a gravesite. This episode was recorded on November 24, 2025.

Clay welcomes one of his favorite guests, Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky, back to the program to talk about political theater in American presidential history. Thomas Jefferson walked to his inauguration, met visitors to the White House, including diplomats, while wearing his house slippers. George Washington was able to quell a potential military coup (the Newburgh Conspiracy) by taking a pair of spectacles out of his pocket and apologizing that his eyesight had deteriorated in the long years of the War of Independence. How calculated were these moments of political theater? Were they planned and maybe even rehearsed, or were they more or less spontaneous evocations of presidential character? We talk about all of the early presidents, but end in a discussion of Lyndon Johnson taking the Oath of Office on the tarmac at Love Field in Dallas on the afternoon of JFK's assassination. This episode was recorded on November 19, 2025.