Management Café

Yes, this is Tim and Pilar's last episode, so we talk about moving on and the importance of wrapping things up. Interview with Andy Gotts photographer that Pilar mentions: https://youtu.be/G0CF6FKR1qk?si=xLp_OSTjvcAlXULj Find out more about Pilar and Bree's book on loneliness in remote teams: https://www.virtualnotdistant.com/coming-soon

Hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti have a good chat about the nature of loyalty, who we should be loyal to at work and what happens when we get the balance wrong.

Who knew that talking about pessimism could be so much fun... even if most of the laughter is self-deprecating. In today's episode, hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about what happens when we let our "inner pessimist" come through. For more information, visit www.managementcafepodcast.com

As co-hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti wrap up the Manager Emotions series, they explain why they're moving onto mindset, and how this is different from cognitivie tendencies (and why they might well be mixing the two up!). Plus, some feedback on our episode on Emotional Contagion, and Pilar shares an episode from Workplace Geeks where one of her connections talks about living with long-covid and how this affects her work life. https://www.audiem.io/podcasts/work-life-and-long-covid Get in touch with Pilar and Tim through the https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

For the sixth episode of our series on manager emotions, Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about Compassion. Good leaders don't just remove obstacles and show their people the way forward. People also need to know that their leaders will support them in the hard times. And importantly, they need leaders to demonstrate compassion when they are in difficulty. This is distinct from sympathy - where the leader might acknowledge someone is suffering but not do anything to help or even really align with their emotions. Empathy is closer - it helps when leaders can demonstrate that they understand and relate to their employee's feelings. But compassion is, in effect, a more active form of empathy. It requires the further step of wanting to reduce the other person's suffering. This can be very nuanced for managers. It does not necessarily require them to solve the problem, support can manifest in many different forms. It might be stepping in and solving the problem. Or coaching the person through it. Or even just offering companionship. Compassion is not just something for managers to demonstrate to others. It's also important to be compassionate to ourselves. The Management Café often talks of the isolation that manager's experience. Our hosts are grateful that their management journey was made easier by the support and care of compassionate people within their teams. 01:30 mins We open with a definition of Compassion from Greater Good: "Compassion literally means 'to suffer together.' Among emotion researchers, it is defined as the feeling that arises when you are confronted with another's suffering and feel motivated to relieve that suffering. Compassion is not the same as empathy or altruism, though the concepts are related. While empathy refers more generally to our ability to take the perspective of and feel the emotions of another person, compassion is when those feelings and thoughts include the desire to help. Altruism, in turn, is the kind, selfless behaviour often prompted by feelings of compassion, though one can feel compassion without acting on it, and altruism isn't always motivated by compassion." 2:30 Sympathy expresses caring for the other person but it also maintains some separation from the person and their emotion. Empathy means we share the other person's emotion. Compassion means we see from the person's perspective but also adds another element, we want to help them. Compassion and sympathy are tied to the other person's suffering or discomfort, whereas empathy is not. 4:00 Compassion is an important attribute for leaders who want to build trust. People want to know that their leader will support and help them during hard times. 5:30 Compassion is not offering solution after solution. It is saying "This is hard. I know how you are feeling. What do you need? How can I help? I'm here for you." 7:00 This requires a high level of self-awareness and knowledge of our team members so that attempted compassion doesn't backfire and lead to helplessness. 7:30 If a solution is offered without empathy it can actually just demonstrate how little the manager understands about the situation and the other person's emotions. 8:00 We also need to be careful that we're solving their problem instead of our problem - where we offer help just so we don't have to deal with their suffering anymore. 8:45 Tim experiences this often, especially early in his leadership journey, where he gets into problem solving mode and tries to fix issues as quickly as possible. Often before the person has really had a chance to share their experience and needs. When he doesn't act with compassion and jumps to solutions, the other person becomes defensive and closes down. Tim is not creating the sort of safe space the other person needs in order to open up and receive support. 9:50 When managers demonstrate compassion it helps people to be honest about what's happening and how they are feeling and what they need. And this environment of psychological safety encourages better performance. 10:45 Empathy is companionship without support. Compassion is companionship with support. 11:00 We need to also show compassion to ourselves. If we are compassionate to ourselves it helps us be compassionate to others and also to receive compassion from others. How can we expect people to be compassionate towards us if we're not even compassionate to ourselves? 12:15 It is important how we talk to ourselves and how we frame our internal dialogue. If we have a compassionate mindset internally it will naturally extend into our way of being and how we express ourselves. 13:30 Management can be lonely. But having a compassionate team around you can be an enormous benefit. Compassion doesn't require them to take on your problem or even experience the exact emotional state that you're in. But it does mean that they care and they try to help. Tim and Pilar have been blessed to work with some very compassionate people and it helped enormously. What about you, dear listener? Do you think compassion is an important attribute for good leadership? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

For the fourth episode of our series on manager emotions we talk about Emotional Contagion, as it's something that keeps coming up. Emotional Contagion describes how one person's emotions can induce similar emotions in others. This is often happening at an unconscious level, for example, we mimic someone's facial expression and start to feel the same emotion. Managers should be especially mindful of this phenomenon and its potential impacts. When a leader gets angry or happy or sad, everyone around them also feels a bit of that same emotion. Leaders are a focal point of interaction meaning they are more susceptible to emotional contagion than followers. This brings both challenges and opportunities. Whilst emotional contagion often operates at a subconscious level, leaders can take deliberate steps to guide the emotional state of themselves and those around them. 00:20 mins Emotional contagion is an important concept for managers to understand - that your emotions impact those around you and vice versa. 1:20 Tim shares an example (possibly an urban myth): your co-workers become less happy if your partner has a bad boss. Even though the workplaces are separate, the bad boss means your partner is less happy. And this means you are less happy. And this unhappiness spreads to your co-workers. 2:00 As per the example above, the effects of emotional contagion spread beyond the workplace. Tim became conscious of this when running Shield GEO where many of the employees worked from home. What are the emotions and influences that a digital workplace brings into the sanctity of someone's home? 4:00 Pilar references a 2002 study by Sigal G. Barsade of the University of Pennsylvania titled "The Ripple Effect: Emotional Contagion and Its Influence on Group Behavior". It talks about emotional contagion as the transfer of emotion between individuals. 5:20 Tim shares an embarrassing story of grumbling about his workplace being negative, only for a co-worker to point out that maybe it was Tim's own negativity that was infecting the workplace! This valuable feedback helped him better understand his role in creating the work environment that he wanted. 6:50 Sometimes emotional contagion happens unconsciously. But other times we can deliberately spread an certain emotion. Going back to the Barsade paper it talks about moods as compared to emotions, making the point that these are easily influenced transient states. Our emotions change with time and different environmental stimuli. 8:45 If we are mindful of emotional contagion when going through challenging events like layoffs, it can change our behaviour. e.g. Perhaps we take steps to reduce anxiety. 9:40 Pilar points out that we don't just influence a group's emotions by interacting directly with the whole group. We can also work at a one-to-one level with individual members who will spread those emotions back through the group. 10:20 Emotional contagion gives a powerful argument for managers to moderate their emotional responses. When managers express emotions like anger it doesn't just impact the people they interact directly with. The effects ripple out. This also means there are wonderful opportunities for the manager to model helpful emotional behaviour and reactions. 11:55 Barsade's research showed that the spread starts with mimicking. People spontaneously mimicking each other's facial expressions, body language, speech patterns and verbal tones. And the mimicking triggers people to feel the emotions. Perhaps an argument for cameras off on some video calls? 13:30 Pilar shares that people who have had Botox injections in their face are perceived as less empathetic because they don't mimic, and so, their body doesn't prompt them to feel others' emotions. 15:00 There is also a conscious level of emotional contagion where we compare our mood to those around us and adjust accordingly. Am I the only one who is angry or happy in this group? 16:30 Tim found the ripple effect of emotions to be a helpful guide. When you treat someone with kindness or care, it doesn't end there. They carry that with them and spread it further. 17:45 Pilar points out that this is a good reminder that even small actions have an impact. And even if we don't see an immediate impact our efforts will be making some difference. 18:45 Interestingly the research found that negative emotions don't spread any faster than positive emotions. And in fact sometimes strong positive emotions can be too much. Tim speculates that this is a British attitude but alas, he's quite wrong, the paper came from the University of Pennsylvania. 20:40 Perhaps negative emotions are more inward focussed and therefore less likely to spread. But positive emotions are generally outward focussed. 22:30 The paper showed that most people were unaware of emotional contagion. Both unaware they were impacted by other's emotions and unaware they were impacting other's emotions. 23:15 Our hosts speculate on what to do when they see emotional contagion at work. It starts with awareness and bringing it into the open. Most of us have experienced the opposite - environments where certain emotions, generally "negative" ones, were not able to be expressed. And it can just lead to these forbidden emotions thriving and spreading behind the scenes. 25:00 Leaders also can't be the only ones responsible for the emotional state of the group. Some research has suggested that leaders are actually more susceptible to emotional contagion than "followers". 26:00 Pilar shares that some of her work in the pandemic left her soaking up the emotions of the group. 27:00 Tim has a shocking realisation. When he sold Shield GEO he tried to talk to all the employees about the transition. These 70 odd conversations left him exhausted, which he thought was due to many of the people feeling anxious and afraid. But he now wonders if he was actually the person spreading anxiety and fear through the group... 28:00 Pilar, as always, reframes this learning into a positive light. 29:30 Emotional contagion isn't just a face to face, real-time experience. All our behaviour is underpinned by emotion. So even in a distributed, primarily digital workplace emotions are still spreading. 30:30 We need self awareness about the impacts of our behaviour, both individually and in groups. What about you, dear listener? Do you think about emotional contagion and how you are impacted by the feelings of those around you? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

We continue with our Manager Emotions series. So much of our work culture is about productivity. Traits like productivity, positivity, drive and a strong work ethic are idolised. We are often expected to overcome obstacles through pure hard work or "grit". This doesn't leave much space for hopelessness! Hopelessness is a difficult emotion for us to experience directly or be exposed to. It's a draining, demotivating state that can spread quickly. This is especially difficult for managers who are limited in how, when and where they can safely express their own feelings of despair at work. It's also tough to manage someone who feels hopeless. We should acknowledge people's feelings and be supportive. Within the context of work we can help people shift perspective or even guide them back to a sense of control. But there are limits to what we can do. Managers are not therapists. 01:20 mins We open with a gentle reminder that there are limits to what managers can deal with in a work context, some things are best dealt with by a mental health professional. In this conversation we'll stay within the context of what can be done at work. 2:00 With the help of Claude AI we define hopelessness as "a state of mind characterised by a lack of hope, optimism or belief that one's situation can improve. It is often accompanied by feelings of despair, helplessness, and a sense that the future holds no positive prospects. When experiencing hopelessness, an individual may feel overwhelmed by their circumstances, believing that their efforts to change or improve their situation are futile. This mindset can lead to a loss of motivation, decreased problem-solving abilities, and a general sense of negativity." 2:45 Even talking about hopelessness causes Tim to tense up and try to wriggle away. It's a very uncomfortable feeling. Pilar reminds us that our "body is a barometer" - bodily sensations can help us understand our emotional state. 3:40 Hopelessness can be pernicious, sneaking up on us and becoming all-consuming. 4:00 So much of our work culture is about doing and being productive. The feeling of hopelessness is not something we're meant to feel at work. It can be discombobulating. And it's a very difficult emotion to express in the workplace. 4:30 Managers in particular are expected to be in control. But hopelessness shows things are out of our control. And what about emotional contagion? Hopelessness is a particularly troubling emotion for a manager to spread to the people they are managing! 6:00 Going back to part of the definition of hopelessness, that a person might believe "their efforts to change or improve their situation are futile", this can be a real risk in hierarchical organisational structures. Individual contributors and middle managers might not have the power, authority or influence to change their circumstances. 7:00 Tim shares a story about a large group of IT workers at a British bank who had a deep sense of despair about their work. 9:00 One way we can limit or shift our experience of hopelessness is by shifting our perspective. Looking at things from a different perspective, changing our priorities or even moving towards other tasks. 10:25 Back in episode #65 we talked about building a support network outside of work. And this is a great example of when that external support can be really important. It can give us a way to get perspective and discuss our feelings of hopelessness outside our immediate work context. 11:00 Tim views hopelessness as an emotion that must be kept under control at work. He needs to limit where, when and how it shows up for him. 11:50 The manager potentially has greater exposure to hopelessness. Firstly they have two lenses, what is happening for them as an individual and what is happening with their team. Secondly their role requires them, to an extent, to plan for bad outcomes (as well as good). 12:30 Tim definitely felt overwhelmed by the challenges of running Shield GEO. But he found it to be a temporary reaction to adversity that diminished over time. 14:30 Tim talks about the setbacks he experienced whilst building a technology platform and how he felt unable to solve the problem. As Pilar points out, we can sometimes make bad decisions just to avoid this feeling of overwhelm. 18:00 When we feel hopeless we lose access to our creative problem-solving abilities. Which in turn heightens the sense of hopelessness and makes it harder to get back on track. 18:30 Warning signs for managers to look out for include negativity and the inability to see a positive future outcome. It is difficult to watch the people we manage suffer in this way. 19:45 Managers can help by finding out what is getting in the way. Perhaps giving the person more context or reframing their perspective can help them get unstuck. 20:30 Tim digs himself into a hole whilst giving an analogy about people in a hole. 21:50 We shouldn't deny people's feelings or experience. But we can set boundaries around how much hopelessness people express in a work context. 24:30 Tim shares how one of his friends sets boundaries with her husband. 25:30 Pilar reminds us that we can have a valuable role in guiding people out of their hopelessness. They need to climb out of their hole, but we can help them see the way out. This can give the person their sense of control back. 27:30 Pilar remembers a regular situation in where actors feel like they can't control their destiny, but a slight change in mindset can reveal that they can. 29:20 Sometimes a person feels hopelessness from their circumstances outside work and this comes into their work. But this is not really something that a manager can affect at work - it requires outside help. What about you, dear listener? What is your experience of hopelessness at work and in your management practice? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

This marks the first of our series on manager emotions, where we discuss some of feelings we experience at work. Anger is one of the more complex emotions for a manager to navigate. Anger is about a perceived wrong and our desire to find a resolution. On the one hand, anger can be energising and act as a powerful catalyst for change. It shows us, and others, what is important to us. But when expressed inappropriately anger can be a destructive force. Many people are uncomfortable being exposed to anger and when we show we're angry at work we can run the risk of reduced connection and collaboration. And so much of this is tied to our own experiences and history and interpretations... one person's "slightly frustrated" might be another person's "rage and fury". Being able to express our difficult emotions in productive ways is one of the hallmarks of psychological safety and a high trust work environment. To quote Aristotle: "Anybody can become angry; that is easy. But to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way—that is not within everybody's power and is not easy." 01:30 mins Definitions of anger and how different authors talk about it. We share definitions of anger from the "Emotion Thesaurus" by Becca Puiglisi & Angela Ackerman, the American Psychological Association and Claude AI. All of which highlight that anger comes from experiencing a perceived wrong or injustice. 3:00 Anger is sometimes a masking emotion disguising someone's true emotional state, for example protecting them from more vulnerable feelings like fear, sadness or shame. Anger can even be a defensive stance - in their book Big Feelings, Liz Fosslien & Mollie West Duffy share a quote from David Kessler that "Anger is pain's bodyguard". 4:50 Anger tells us that there is something we have to pay attention to. It's important to listen to as opposed to being controlled by your anger. 5:30 Many people feel the need to suppress their anger. There can be a lot of judgement about feeling angry or expressing anger. Tim knows people who never express anger, even when he knows that they have experienced injustice. But there are also so many examples of harmful expressions of anger. 6:30 What does anger look and feel like? Some of the ways we can see anger show up in a work context include: irritability, poor listening skills, jumping to conclusions, irrational reactions to inconsequential things, demanding immediate action, impetuosity, taking inappropriate action or risks. And these don't just show we are angry - in many ways they are also affecting how we interact with others. 7:30 Within ourselves we can feel hot, tense, fuzzy, shallow or fast breathing. It can really take hold of us. 8:00 Tim shares an example of when a friend demonstrated anger as a mask for embarrassment or shame. 9:15 Anger exists on a spectrum. It isn't always expressed so strongly that it takes over. 9:50 Anger can be helpful because it helps us understand what is important and it motivates us to take action. It can give us a way to express negative emotions. 11:50 Pilar has had to learn to moderate how she expresses anger, or behaving in ways that might be interpreted as anger, because it makes people uncomfortable. But we also can't bottle it up and then have it all come out. And sometimes to demonstrate that we are upset is more effective than telling people we're upset. 15:15 Tim's experience has been a bit different. He felt better about expressing his anger, but realised it was making other people feel worse. So he has to be careful. He might think he's giving a mild expression of anger but it can be interpreted very differently by someone else. 16:50 Tim talks about a time when just saying that he was feeling angry helped him feel less angry. This served him better in this situation than his customary angry response. 18:50 For Pilar, she needs to find a balance between tailoring her response without controlling everything about her feelings and how they are expressed. 20:15 Tim has another anecdote from a board meeting where one of the participants had experienced an injustice but wasn't allowed to properly express it in the meeting. It lead to a huge frustration and sense of disconnection for them, as Tim discovered when he spoke to the board member afterwards. 22:00 Just to be given the space to be angry and express their feelings can be valuable. This was a takeaway for Pilar in the example she shared at 11:50. 23:30 Managers can take a timeout if their own anger is getting in the way or someone else is expressing their anger in a way that is unproductive. It's important to return to the conversation at a later point. This is kind of what Tim tried to do in his board meeting. 24:30 It can also be helpful to paraphrase what an angry person is saying. This shows their anger is recognised and the injustice is understood. 25:00 It's very easy to skip past anger or frustration in written communication. It can easily escalate in an asynchronous environment. 26:40 We should repair and reconnect if we've expressed our anger in a way that was unproductive. We don't need to apologise for how we felt but rather we apologise for how we interacted. This can show someone that we value them and our connection whilst also staying true to our sense of justice. 28:30 Pilar remembers when a colleague's empathetic reaction helped her identify her emotional state. By choosing to turn towards her in a challenging moment, their connection was deepened. What about you, dear listener? We are finding it therapeutic to talk about our emotions as managers, does it help you too? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

A theme we keep coming back to in the Management Café is the importance of context. In each situation there are many variables that influence what happens. For example the company culture, our manager, our team, the particular task and our own capability. Sometimes we have to accept that the current context is not good one for us and we're not going to perform at our best. This can be hard to reconcile, many of us have an expectation that we can handle all challenges. But this realisation, that the context isn't right for us, also brings opportunity. The opportunity to be patient and understanding of ourselves (or others). The opportunity to change the context. Or the opportunity to save ourselves the wasted effort and pain from trying something that will never succeed in that context. So... how do you identify the context that works for you? And can we make progress even from the situations which don't work? Join hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti for coffee and find out! 00:15 mins In episode #74 Pilar shared a story of how a change of context, in this case working with a different team, improved her performance delivering training. 3:30 Acknowledging that the context isn't right for us can open the door to trying something different. 4:30 Tim had an experience recently with a colleague who decided that the organisational culture wasn't a good match. And so they made the decision to leave. This freed the person, and the organisation, to move forward. Pilar references Laszlo Bock's book "Work Rules" and how he incorporated this into the culture at Google. If someone wasn't performing well, then you could work with them directly but also change the context - maybe a different part of the organisation. Or maybe they were best suited to a different organisation. 6:25 Unfortunately companies and employees can sometimes misrepresent or misinterpret their preferred context during the hiring process. Ideally we'd be aware of what environments work best for us and aim for companies and roles that can accommodate us. 7:45 Things can also be quite different to how they appear on the surface. Pilar talks about a case study of a distributed company with a very flat leadership structure. However this organisation had an unofficial hierarchy and a founder dynamic that meant employees struggled to be heard. 10:00 How to identify the context that works for you? It's a big question, especially early in your career. Tim suggests that even a process of elimination, a trial and error process of identifying what doesn't work, is still good progress. 11:15 This is hard to recognise in the moment. But with hindsight we can make sense of what was or wasn't helpful to us. 12:50 We can save ourselves a lot of pain and wasted effort by understanding what will and won't succeed within our context. Pilar shares an anecdote of someone who tried to apply a productivity initiative within an organisation only to violate a cultural norm. This can be one of the big indicators that a context isn't right, when our vision of change is vastly different to the organisation's. We might need to find a new place to work! 16:20 Tim remembers a time when he badly misread the culture of his workplace because his manager had done such a great job of shielding him. A painful lesson which resulted in him being out of a job within 6 weeks of his manager leaving. 17:30 Nini Fritz of The Work Happiness Project shared something that helps her identify when it's worth applying efforts to bring about organisational change. When we see people share our desire for the outcome but they are struggling with implementation, we have the best chance to improve the context. What about you, dear listener? Is this something you think about? How can you tell when the context is right or wrong for you? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

A short bonus episode to let you know what's brewing in the Management Café. In about a month, we'll be starting a new series, on manager emotions. In each episode, we'll dive into a specific emotion, discussing what it feels like, its purpose, and how it can help or hinder us as managers. Our recent episode on regret resonated with listeners, and we both enjoyed it very much! It highlighted the importance of discussing emotions as a manager and how they shape our management practices. So we've decided to cover some other feelings and emotions. Throughout the series, we'll share our own experiences and those shared with us by others. We'll explore not only the manager's experience of each emotion but also their experience of employees who are going through those emotions. When you think about emotional contagion and the impact of being around someone experiencing a particular emotional reaction, you can see how there will be plenty to get our teeth into. Some of the emotions we plan to cover include: - Overwhelm - Disconnection - Hopelessness - Anger - Confusion - Joy - Compassion We'd love to hear from you, listeners! If you have any stories, thoughts, or insights related to these emotions or any other emotions you think would make for an interesting episode, please share them with us. You can reach out via email at managementcafepodcast[at]gmail.com or through the contact form on our website, managementcafepodcast.com. Additionally, if you come across any books, articles, or resources that you believe would contribute to the series, please let us know. Look out for the Manager Emotion Series, where we'll take a deeper look at the human side of management and explore how emotions shape our experiences as managers and leaders. Until then, coffee's over for us, now it's over to you!

Several times recently in the Management Café our hosts have talked about regrets. Those formative management experiences where they look back and wish they had acted differently. Making mistakes is part of our learning journey but some situations weigh on us more than others. Revisiting them can bring a range of challenging emotions like regret, guilt and shame. Regret is an uncomfortable feeling, it's something we avoid. The discomfort can be heightened for managers who have a duty of care over their team and the extra weight that comes with an official title and position within the hierarchy. Yet we can't just ignore it and move on. Regret carries valuable knowledge. It helps us understand what truly matters to us. It makes us aware of what behaviours need to change to in order to match our values. And it doesn't want to let go until we've acknowledged the lesson. This can be a slow and painful but very worthwhile process. Pilar and Tim share a few of their (many) regrets as managers and talk how these experiences changed them. For our hosts this conversation is, in the words of Hector Santiesteban, restorative and therapeutic. SHOW NOTES 00:30 mins In episode #74 "Leading in the Flow of Work", Pilar and Tim each talked about how they previously tried to live a life without regrets. But with age and more experiences this changed. Inevitably there are lots of regrets. 2:20 Regret can be a very helpful emotion for managers. It tells us that our actions in a particular situation weren't in line with our values. And it is important that in the future we handle these situations differently. Regret is a guide for our behaviour. When a situation comes up again we can be reminded of our regret. This helps us make better decisions in the moment. 4:15 Regret is uncomfortable but knowing that we can learn from bad experiences can make them a little more bearable. Regret wants us to understand why we feel bad about our actions and to try behaving differently in the future. 5:15 We experience regret because we care about what happened. If we pay attention to our regret and explore why we cared so much about a particular situation, it helps us better understand our values and how we want to live. 6:30 Tim used to tell himself that he'd never regret something if he felt he'd made a good decision based on what he knew then. But he came to realise that a lack of knowledge or awareness didn't necessarily excuse his actions and decisions. He'd still experience regret. 7:15 If we reject our regrets and hide behind phrases like "it's just business" then we are denying ourselves a valuable opportunity to learn. 8:00 Pilar highlights two different learning experiences. The first is regret from doing something we know we shouldn't do. The second is more nuanced - we think we're doing the right thing but we aren't. We are lacking the knowledge or experience to know better. So regret comes in to teach us. 8:50 Tim shares a story of one of his big regrets, when he reacted poorly to one of his team members who was struggling during a difficult period. The way Tim handled this situation nagged away at him for a long time. Looking back he can see he turned away from an opportunity to connect with and support the person. As a result they both suffered more. 12:00 This realisation took a long time to arrive and revealed itself in stages. 14:00 Talking about these situations with others can help us see things differently. 15:30 Pilar has a big regret from her period teaching A level students for Theatre Studies. A situation came up where her natural approach of positive reinforcement didn't work. She can still picture her student's face when it went awry! But for Pilar, the lesson was learnt and she decided to get better at corrective feedback. 20:15 Another of Pilar's regrets came from ignoring her gut instinct when taking on client work. The next time her gut started to tell her "no", she listened! 21:30 If we listen to our regret and act accordingly, at least we shouldn't experience regret over it. But it's hard to change behaviour. It might take a few attempts. 22:15 Regret hurts. Our memories of those situations are so vivid. We have a visceral reaction to the negative impact of our actions. This is part of the process, the pain helps us change our future behaviour. In a sense the deeper the regret, the better the lesson. 25:50 Pilar references The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward by Daniel Pink which suggests people have more regret over things they haven't done versus things they have done. (Neither host has read the book, neither has regrets). Pilar suggests that talking about regrets over things you've done is harder than regrets over things you didn't do. Because we have a clear understanding of the impact from the things we've actually done. What about you, dear listener? What is your biggest regret as a manager? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/

Tim and Pilar discuss an article featured in the Jan/Feb 2024 edition of the Harvard Business Review: "Leading in the Flow of Work" by Hitendra Wadhwa, Founder of the Mentora Institute. Hitendra posits that "rather than (being) a trait to be acquired, leadership is a state to be activated" through preparation, self awareness and reflection. By managing our internal state and matching our actions to the context, we will function better and more authentically as leaders. The article especially focusses on conversations and how leaders can get better outcomes by making conscious choices about what to do. It's an attractive premise, to be able to skilfully navigate the challenges of fluid interactions by pausing and then choosing, in the moment, an appropriate action for the situation. This model lists five core energies: Purpose (committed to a noble cause), Wisdom (calm and receptive to the truth), Growth (curious and open to learning), Love (connected with those you work with and serve) and Self-realisation (centered in a joyful spirit). This is supported by 25 actions which help activate these core energies. For our hosts this discussion is bittersweet. There is excitement at the prospect of making better decisions during important interactions. And there is also regret that our past selves didn't have the advantage of our current knowledge. Ironically of course it is that same regret which makes us the older and wiser person we are today... 0:30 mins Pilar appreciated several examples from the article of someone turning a potential confrontation into a better situation via the person shifting their approach. 2:30 Tim had previously associated flow states with sports - quite a different interpretation which is about acting without conscious thought or decision, just using instinct and muscle memory. But within the context of the article the flow state is where we are "calmly aware of our inner and outer conditions and able to adapt our behaviour as needed". Pilar describes this as a split personality between being present and reviewing what's going on. And being able to shift behaviour based on this conscious awareness. 5:25 We can all relate to the feeling of something not going the way we expected. When we unpack it afterwards we gain new insight and realise we should have acted differently. Alas, the moment has passed. Certainly both our hosts have experienced this many times! 6:25 The article shares a compelling example, from Jonathan Aitken's biography of Margaret Thatcher, about a pivotal meeting between Thatcher and Mikhail Gorbachev. At a crucial point Gorbachev was able to change his approach and in the process, change the course of history. He reminded himself of his intention coming into the meeting. He reframes his perception of how Thatcher is acting. And he finds alignment with her on principles. 8:20 Pilar shares that a realisation that has been transformational for her: that people are generally not acting with malice - they are trying to do what they believe is right. 8:50 We can practice and get better at understanding and acting within the moment itself. But it takes a lot of effort. And time. 10:50 Letting go of our everyday habits and ego can free us to choose the best way to act. It also requires the empathy of understanding what is happening for the other person. 12:15 Our hosts wrestle with the regrets that come with learning and evolving. But our experiences make us the person that we are today. 14:15 Leadership is not a static state: "The personality and behaviour of someone will change with the context that the person is in, the thoughts and feelings that individual is experiencing and who else is present". Pilar shares a story about how a change in context made a big difference in her performance. 17:00 This framework reminds us that our habitual behaviours aren't always going to work. If we are able to be aware and present in the moment, we have a better chance of navigating the situation. 19:40 Often conflict comes even though everyone wants the same outcome. There is just something else getting in the way. 21:45 Tim's experience aligns with the model in that he's had better outcomes when he has prepared, put effort into being open and aware, spent time unpacking and reframing interactions. 22:30 The five core energies are intrinsic to our core humanity. There is a close connection to authentic leadership. "Leadership in flow does not work by faking it". 25:00 One last reminder on the value of reframing. When aren't going to get things right every time. Instead of focussing on our failures, the article shares how we can still find pride in our intention and effort. What about you, dear listener? Does Leadership in Flow resonate with you? Do you wish you could turn back the clock and get a second chance? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ For the full show notes, head over to www.managementcafepodcast.com

Following on from coffee #71 about the impact of technology on our leadership practice, Pilar and Tim talk about emoji as a communications tool for managers. Tiny and ubiquitous, it's easy to underestimate their importance. But when used skilfully, emoji give us a visual language that can provide faster and more concise communication. Within the context of our teams and companies this communal language and interpretation can be another way for us to bond. Unfortunately when used without context, emoji can struggle to overcome ambiguity. Some reactions, like anger, can be jarring when delivered via a tiny cartoon. And in a world of "likes", the absence of an emoji can be felt as much as it's presence. "Did nobody read my message?" "Why did she like their post but not my post?" "They posted a slightly smiling face but why didn't they post the crying tears of laughter smiley face..." 01:00 mins Our hosts start with the question of whether to "thumbs up" or not "thumbs up". 02:00 Tim is very pro-emoji. 2:50 Pilar rarely uses the thumbs up, her favourite emoji is the thinker. 3:00 With the ease and popularity of quick reactions via emoji it can be addictive to "post for the likes". This can diminish communication if the primary aim is to get approval. This was covered by Basecamp on the Rework podcast "Please Don't Like This" and "Update: Please Don't Like This". 4:30 Pilar points out that because emoji are inherently playful it's not given the attention it deserves. And for Tim this is true, he primarily uses emoji in a light-hearted way. 5:50 Pilar shares an example of the dissonance which comes from using cartoons to express something serious. 6:45 Emoji are a very important tool that isn't given enough importance. 8:30 Pilar changes her position - Tim wishes he could give this a thumbs up in the café. 9:40 Mindless use of emoji is a problem but when used with intention they can help managers find new, nuanced ways to express themselves. 10:30 Emoji are, in each workplace, a language that is co-created. The person sending the emoji needs to know how it will be interpreted by those who see it. 11:45 Our hosts fantasise about a book "The Emoji Manager, how to manage your team using just 50 emoji". 12:45 How we use emoji in our teams is part of our team norms and culture. It can be a way for managers to bond their teams around a common language and behaviours. 13:45 Emoji make it easy for us to react. Pilar puts it best, that emoji allow us to "cut down on the time we're investing but not cut down on the effect of the communication". 16:20 Tim shares an example of how the managers in his leadership team started using emoji to facilitate their meeting preparation. 17:15 Much like an emoji, things get a little lighthearted and playful. What about you, dear listener? How do you use emoji? We'd love to hear from you! Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/