Who Pays? The Unfair Economics of Climate Finance

About this episode

The episode discusses the economic challenges of climate finance, particularly for developing countries like Indonesia, in the context of global fossil fuel dependence and the costs associated with transitioning to clean energy.

This week we acknowledge the US strikes on Iran and the escalation that has followed. The immediate human cost is what matters most right now. But this crisis is unfolding within a global system still shaped by oil markets and fossil fuel dependence - a dependence that amplifies regional instability and turns into global vulnerability. The same structural tensions sit at the heart of this week’s conversation, recorded before these events. Indonesia is the world's fourth most populous country, one of its largest coal exporters, and a nation with every natural resource it needs to transition to clean energy. The problem isn't will, it’s money. Who it's available to, and on what terms. Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson are joined by  Sri Mulyani Indrawati - Indonesia's former Finance Minister under three different presidents, former Managing Director of the World Bank, and one of the most credible voices in the world on exactly this set of challenges. She walks through what it actually costs to retire a single coal plant years ahead of schedule, why developing countries find themselves trapped by contracts they signed in good faith, and why the…

People in this episode

Hosts: Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, Paul Dickinson

Guest: Sri Mulyani Indrawati

Topics covered

• climate finance
• energy transition
• developing countries
• fossil fuel dependence
• international finance
• coal industry
• economic challenges

Keywords

• climate finance
• Indonesia
• coal plants
• clean energy
• economic disparity
• fossil fuels
• credit ratings
• Sri Mulyani Indrawati

Mentioned in this episode

Organizations: World Bank

Places: Indonesia, United States, Iran

More episodes of Outrage + Optimism

• Blocker or Blueprint? India on the World Stage · September 10, 2026 · 41 min
• What’s India Building?: Tales from the Biggest Transition on Earth · September 3, 2026 · 33 min
• India: Life Inside Delhi's 'Airpocalypse' · August 27, 2026 · 39 min
• The Clock is Ticking: Forty Seconds to Explain the Climate Crisis · August 20, 2026 · 34 min
• Beyond Politics: Should we take the heat out of the climate crisis? · August 13, 2026 · 46 min
• Cheapest Energy in History. Still Heading for 3 Degrees? · August 6, 2026 · 57 min