Sauna Talk

n this live panel from Sauna Days 2025, Glenn welcomes two of the most thoughtful voices in sauna research, Dr. Ashley Mason of UCSF and Earric Lee of the Montreal Heart Institute, for a candid conversation about the current state of sauna science, where the evidence is strong, where it is still emerging, and why integrity matters when talking about health benefits in the sauna world. This episode goes far beyond the usual wellness headlines. Ashley and Earric dig into the real responsibility that comes with promoting sauna for health, especially in a moment when many businesses lean on scientific claims to sell sauna experiences, home builds, and products. Rather than oversimplifying the message, this discussion brings nuance, humility, and rigor to the bench. Earric shares insights from two major projects: a cardiac rehabilitation study exploring whether regular sauna bathing can improve outcomes for patients with coronary artery disease, and a sweeping review of roughly 80 years of heat-therapy research, covering everything from traditional sauna and infrared sauna to hot water immersion and foot baths. One of the big takeaways: despite all the enthusiasm around sauna today, the actual number of long-term published studies is still surprisingly limited, and the field has a lot of room to grow. Ashley brings the mental health lens, drawing from her work on depression, insomnia, and body-based therapies that do not rely on drugs. She explains how heat exposure may relate to thermoregulation, serotonin pathways, and mood improvement, and describes the striking relationship between body temperature and depression. In her research, some people with depression appear to run "hot," not because of fever, but because their bodies do not cool as effectively. That opens a fascinating question: can changing body temperature help change mental state? Together, Glenn, Ashley, and Earric explore the difference between clinical research and practical sauna use. They talk about why researchers sometimes use intense protocols that are not meant to be copied at home, how long heat exposure may matter more than many people realize, and why dosage, frequency, and total heat load are still not well defined. The conversation also touches on the challenge of translating laboratory findings into real-world sauna practice, especially for people seeking guidance they can actually use. A major thread throughout the panel is the distinction between traditional sauna and infrared sauna. Earric shares data from the literature showing a fairly even split in long-term published work between the two, while also noting that many infrared studies come from the same Japanese "Waon therapy" tradition. Ashley explains why her own clinical work uses controlled infrared whole-body heating: not because it is culturally superior, but because it allows researchers to isolate heat as a variable and reliably elevate core temperature over time. The panel also gets refreshingly honest about what remains uncertain. Can a traditional sauna session raise core temperature to the same levels used in clinical depression studies? Maybe, but probably not easily. Is cold plunging necessary? Not necessarily. Does contrast therapy add something meaningful beyond helping people stay in the heat longer? The science is still catching up. Are there clear protocols for children, older adults, athletes, or people with type 1 diabetes? Not yet, at least not with the level of certainty most people would hope for. There is also a strong practical thread in this episode. Earric encourages sauna bathers to keep a sauna log, much like an exercise log, tracking time, temperature, frequency, and personal response. The idea is simple but powerful: if sauna is a stressor that leads to adaptation, then paying attention to your individual dose matters. Ashley adds an important layer to that idea by reminding listeners that human beings are not static. Age, fitness, depression, stress, sleep, and general health all influence how the body handles heat. Audience questions help widen the discussion even further. The panel touches on core temperature versus skin temperature, wearable technology, the limits of common thermometers, the role of sweating and blood redistribution, how cold exposure may or may not complement sauna, the possibility that some sauna benefits come not just from heat but from social connection, rest, hydration, and ritual, and why future research needs better control groups to separate these effects. What emerges is a thoughtful, grounded, and deeply useful conversation: sauna science without the chest-thumping, without the overclaiming, and without losing the wonder. This episode is for sauna builders, bathers, researchers, health professionals, and anyone who wants a clearer picture of what heat can do for the human body and mind, and what questions still deserve honest study. In this episode: Dr. Ashley Mason and Earric Lee discuss the current state of sauna research, long-term heat therapy studies, traditional sauna versus infrared sauna, depression and thermoregulation, cardiac rehab, body temperature tracking, dosage and duration, cold exposure, aging, children and heat, diabetes considerations, and why the future of sauna science depends on asking better questions with more rigor.

Recorded live at Sauna Days 2025, this episode of Sauna Talk brings together a thoughtful panel of doctors who sauna for a grounded conversation on heat, health, and the real role of sauna in modern life. Glenn is joined by Dr. Jeremiah Eisenchenk, Dr. Brandon Dotson, Dr. Brittany Kimball, and Dr. Ashley Mason for a lively discussion on what we know, what we don't know, and why sauna continues to matter for both personal well-being and community connection. This conversation explores: cardiovascular health and the most-cited sauna studies sleep, mood, depression, stress reduction, and mental health sauna and respiratory health recovery, inflammation, and everyday wellness detox claims, hydration, and where the evidence stands the difference between lived sauna experience and overhyped wellness marketing why more rigorous sauna research is still needed What makes this episode special is the balance: medical perspective, personal experience, Finnish-American sauna tradition, and a shared respect for sauna as both practice and place. Recorded lakeside with the Sauna Days crowd in the room, this is a conversation about more than research. It's about why people keep returning to sauna—for clarity, healing, friendship, and that feeling that some things still can't be improved by screens or speed.

In this special episode of Sauna Talk, the tables are turned as Adam Pambatanaka, COO of Therme Group U.S., steps into the interviewer's role and puts Glenn on the bench. Recorded live at Sauna Village in New York City in February 2026, this conversation dives into Glenn's own sauna origin story, from getting hooked in the Baltic archipelago to helping champion mobile saunas, sauna building, and public sauna culture across North America. Adam guides the discussion through the big themes that have shaped Glenn's work with SaunaTimes: the rise of sauna in the public domain, the DIY sauna movement, floating saunas, sauna villages, and the growing momentum behind authentic bathing culture in the U.S. Along the way, Glenn reflects on how far sauna has come, what still matters most, and why both home sauna and public sauna can thrive side by side. This episode also explores the spirit of sauna itself: fewer rules, more listening; less protocol, more presence. For newcomers, enthusiasts, builders, and operators alike, this is a wide-ranging conversation about heat, cold, freedom, and the human connections that happen on the bench. Stay tuned through the end for bonus coverage with Sami Ranta, Finnish sauna designer and builder of the village's flagship performance sauna, who shares thoughtful perspective on sauna design, freedom in bathing culture, and why beautiful "mistakes" can lead to great sauna. In this episode: Glenn's sauna origin story From backyard sauna to public sauna movement The rise of mobile saunas and sauna villages Home sauna vs. public sauna SaunaTimes, sauna circuits, and DIY resources Guidance for first-time bathers Bonus conversation with Sami Ranta on sauna design and innovation A heartfelt, wide-open episode that offers listeners a rare chance to hear Glenn's own story, in his own words, from the other side of the microphone.

Welcome to this episode of Sauna Talk recorded on multiple sauna benches at the Culture of Bathing Sauna Village in New York City. I'll keep this introduction brief as we turn the microphone over to four pillars behind the second annual Culture of Bathing gathering. This year, the gathering was layered adjacent to the opening of New York Cities first sauna village. A village of 15 architecturally-distinct saunas set along the Williamsburg waterfront. Featuring: Mikkel Aaland: The Godfather of Sweat Cosmin-Nicolae Cîrîc: King of the Sauna Experience Robert Hammond: President and Chief Strategy Officer, Therme Group US, United States Adam Bamba Tanaka: Chief Operating Officer, Therme Group US Event Info: Culture of Bathing Sauna Village, New York City NY 15-17 saunas, NEW YORK'S FIRST EVER SAUNA FESTIVAL DOMINO PARK, WILLIAMSBURG FEBRUARY 12 — MARCH 1, 2026 7AM TO 10PM DAILY. More information is here.

Today on the bench, we sit together with Keegan Kittock, co-founder of Deep Wave Sauna. With the rising tide of sauna also comes marketing talk, pedantic chatter, and graphs and charts about how air supposedly moves in the hot room. So it's extra special and refreshing to visit with someone like Keegan. In this episode, we start at the beginning—picturing Keegan after elementary school, dragging a magnet around a building site, earning bubble-gum money working for his father's contracting company. And like many of us, catching the sauna bug at a young, impressionable age up north at the family cabin: long rounds, long dock time, and plunging in the lake, splashing around with neighbors, friends, and family. Love of sauna and love of construction are two powerful forces pointing toward building saunas for others. Add to that Aaron—Keegan's lifelong friend, collaborator, and business partner—and you have Deep Wave Sauna. Ask them at Sauna Days or outside one of their builds how the company got its name and you'll get right to the heart of it. Deep Wave. A nod to the nerdiness without the pedantic edge. Keegan can talk in great technical detail about different wavelengths of heat and steam, but he's well past trying to impress. He's relatable and genuinely fun to Sauna Talk with. Deep heat. That wave that feels so good on the bench. That's enough. When we consider the holy trinity of good sauna (heat, steam, ventilation), the first two we can get our arms around, but ventilation is oblique—impossible to see, harder to feel, and easy to misunderstand. But Keegan has earned the title of "thermal whisperer" among fellow sauna aficionados. He's the one who taught me that air is a fluid and should be understood as such. So when we talk about good ventilation, we talk about the lazy river. Stay tuned for more in this episode—why this is what we aim for, and how many saunas can achieve it naturally and passively without the mechanical buzz-kill easy street. Keegan brings it down to earth. And I'm overjoyed to have made my way out to his prairie-style sauna on his property west of the Twin Cities. I love his sauna. Spiritual Patina rating: solid 9.0. Within this article on SaunaTimes are a few photos taken from Keegan's sauna. And you can check these out and it'll likely bring you right there with us, on the bench, where we recorded this episode for you.

Today, on Sauna Talk, and almost on the sauna bench, I'm pleased to bring you the folks behind the three major American sauna stove makers. American manufacturing at work! Garrett, Lamppa Manufacturing, Tower, Minnesota, Population 421 Philip, Nippa, Beulah, MI, Population 303 Lynn, Ilo, Dollar Bay, Michigan, Population 1,070 We talk through what their company looks like, their community, and what their opinions are on the North American sauna industry. Small town manufacturing. Direct to consumer, factory direct. Products Made with quality with longevity in mind. A couple of terms: Cost engineering: Designed in a way that reduces manufacturing costs—sometimes at the expense of quality, durability, or performance. Margin stacking: When every step in a product's journey — manufacturer, distributor, wholesaler, retailer — adds a profit margin, and those margins compound into a much larger final price. More here.

Today on Sauna Talk, we are joined by the dynamic duo of researcher from Emery University, Deanna Kaplan and Roman Palitsky. Deanna Kaplan Deanna Kaplan, PhD is a clinical psychologist with expertise in digital health technologies. She has more than a decade of experience using wearable and smartphone-based technologies to study the dynamics of health processes and clinical change during daily life. Her research is grounded in a whole-person (bio-psycho-social-spiritual) model of health, and much of her work focuses on investigating the dynamics of change of integrative interventions, such as psychedelic-assisted therapies and contemplative practices. Dr. Kaplan is the Director of the Human Experience and Ambulatory Technologies (HEAT) Lab, a multidisciplinary collaboration between the Department of Family and Preventive Medicine and Emory Spiritual Health. More information about the HEAT Lab is here. Dr. Kaplan is the co-creator and Scientific Director of Fabla, an unlicensed Emory-hosted app for multimodal daily diary and ecological momentary assessment (EMA) research. Fabla is an EMA app that can securely collect voice-recorded, video-recorded , and photographic responses from research participants. More information about Fabla is here. Dr. Kaplan holds an adjunct appointment in Emory's Department of Psychology and is appointed faculty for several Emory centers, including the Winship Cancer Institute, Emory Spiritual Health (ESH), the Emory Center for Psychedelics and Spirituality (ECPS), and the Advancement of Diagnostics for a Just Society (ADJUST) Center. She also holds an appointment as an adjunct Assistant Professor at Brown University in affiliation with the Center for Digital Health. Dr. Kaplan received her PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Arizona, completed her predoctoral clinical internship at the Alpert Medical School of Brown University, and completed a postdoctoral research fellowship at Brown University, where she received an F32 National Research Service Award (NRSA) from the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Her research is funded by the NIH, the Health Resources Services Administration (HRSA), the Georgia Clinical and Translational Science Alliance, the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation, and the Vail Health Foundation among others. She was named as a 2025 Rising Star by Genomics Press for her work in mental health assessment innovation. Roman Palitsky Roman Palitsky, MDiv, Ph.D. is Director of Research Projects for Emory Spiritual Health and a Research Psychologist for Emory University School of Medicine. His research program investigates the pathways through which culture and health interact by examining the biological, psychological, and social processes that constitute these pathways. His areas of interest include biopsychosocial determinants in cardiovascular health, chronic pain, and grief. In collaboration with Emory Spiritual Health, his research addresses cultural and existential topics in healthcare such as religion, spirituality, and the way people find meaning in suffering, as they relate to health and illness. His work has also focused on the role of religious and existential worldviews in mindfulness-based interventions, as well as implementation and cultural responsiveness of these interventions. Dr. Palitsky's academic training includes a PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Arizona with a concentration in Behavioral Medicine/Health Psychology, and a Master of Divinity from Harvard University. He completed clinical internship in the behavioral medicine track at Brown University Warren Alpert Medical School, where he also completed a postdoctoral fellowship. Deanna and Roman were in town attending and speaking at the 2025 SSSR Conference, Society for the Scienific Study of Religion. And as you will hear, we get deep into the spirit of sauna, a spiritual connection we allow ourselves to have, presented to us through the wonderfulness of time on the bench and chilling out in the garden, all misty wet with rain.

Welcome to this episode of Sauna Talk, where we head back to Farris Bad, resort spa and wellness retreat South of Oslo, Norway. We get to sit with Jerome, who is a long standing steam master at the resort. Here he leads aufguss ceremony and assists two time Sauna Talk guest Lasse Eriksen. 10,000 hours One thing I wish I had asked Jerome in this interview is to venture a guess at how many guests he's "entertained" (if that's the right word) over his 10-plus years leading aufguss sessions at this world-renowned facility. Some quick farmer's math gets us close: a few sessions a day, five days a week, for 10 years… that adds up to well over 10,000 people. I'm one of those 10,000—a repeat guest for a couple of years, attending several of his aufguss ceremonies. An Aufgussmeister, in my view, is best to not be lead into temptation. For like a church paster, there could be that ego boost that comes from standing in front of an audience, performing. Controlling the movement of steam, and the administering of essences and microclimate manipulation could give one a feeling of power, dominance even. Aufguss master responsibilities Yet Lasse instills some deep and powerful education with his students. He gives them freedom to be creative with their art, yet he also instills true message that the sauna is the teacher. The stove and the heat and steam it creates is to be respected. The duty an aufgussmeister has to those sitting on the bench is an important one. Safety is critical. For the under educated, pushing steam and controlling time in the hot room is a noble and great responsibility. Each session is led with an important statement. You are welcome to leave the session, but once you leave, do not come back in. The door to the hot room opens in one direction during an aufguss ceremony. But back to Jerome. After producing over 100 Sauna Talk podcasts, I've learned what makes a guest unforgettable: someone who can take us right to the edge of the box. During my visits to Farris Bad, Jerome would casually share insights about aufguss—and every time, I'd think, people need to hear and feel this for themselves! Today, we get that chance, right now. Let's step behind the scenes into the fascinating, ever-evolving world of aufguss. Please welcome Jerome to Sauna Talk! Podcast summary Jerome Farris, a sauna master at Farris Bad in Larvik, Norway, discusses his role and background. He has been at Farris Bad for eight years, having moved from Switzerland. Jerome speaks multiple languages and has a Montessori teaching background, which he applies to his sauna master role. He emphasizes the importance of sensory experiences and the therapeutic aspects of sauna rituals. Farris Bad has seven saunas and offers courses for aspiring steam masters. Jerome highlights the collaborative and non-prescriptive nature of the sauna experience, aiming to connect guests with their roots and elements. He also shares insights into the sauna's cultural significance and its benefits for well-being. Key Moments 2:36-3:48 Jerome explains how his background with kids at Montessori and performance art helped him with his current job in sauna- so interesting! 8:44-9:03 Jerome talks about proposing to his wife! 30:12-31:00 Jerome discusses people pushing themselves/ MMA fighters- this was interesting

Today on the sauna bench, we head to Oslo, Norway, and visit with the folks at Oslo Badstuforening, (Oslo Sauna Association). This is my second trip to Norway in as many years. They say that you never step into the same river twice, and I'll contend that we never sit on the same sauna bench twice. For last year, I took many saunas in the Oslo Harbour, as well as published a Sauna Talk with the Oslo Sauna Association team – and you can listen to that episode which is #99. And this year, I get right back into the Oslo sauna spirit, yet with more focus on the "behind the scenes" history, construction, operation, and warm hearted people who make it all happen. Because frankly, I'm overwhelmed with the Badstu Boom, as it's called. I really dig the Norwegians! The Norwegians They have sauna (badstu) deep in their Viking history. They approach it width depth and culture like the Finns, but with the open minded collaborative artful attention and appreciation of the Brits. AND without the capitalistic franchise money to be made CEO Instagramification land grab of many Americans. Take this Sauna Talk as example. Main guests on this show are Ragna, Secretary General, Oslo Badstuforening. And Aslak, who also has an official sounding title at Oslo Badstuforening, along the lines of "chief operations manager" which could mean loading firewood in the morning and replacing a burned out stove in the afternoon. A few different countries And we get to sauna serendipity also, as Hannah Mary Goodland joins us from Haar Sauna which is located way up north in the British Isles. Haar Sauna is the first mobile sauna in Scotland. Hannah Mary is also in Oslo and so what better than a bunch of sauna business folks from different a few different countries Sauna Talking it out on the bench, while over looking the fjord in Oslo. For those familiar, and for those who keep up with SaunaTimes and sauna travel, Oslo Sauna Association has an every expanding fleet of floating saunas. Each one unique, named after a particular bird, and pretty much guaranteed to have local Oslo residents with a few foreigners sprinkled in for contrast social therapy. For our Sauna Talk, Ragna chooses for us the Seagull Sauna. And you'll soon get to hear why she chose this particular sauna, out of the 24 or so floating nearby. I think about the floating sauna revolution. I wrote about it here over two years ago. And since then, I have written and reviewed several other floating saunas, such as my friends Nick and Jess at Löyly floating in BC Canada, who now have three more floating projects in development. David, of course, from Von Sauna in Seattle, who I met at Sauna Days aboard the Viking Floating Sauna. And has what many report to be incredibly great heat on Lake Washington. But the thing is, floating saunas are all over the place in Europe, and you can check in with Sauna Sam who takes us dockside in Amsterdam, for example. Catching the floating sauna bug Many of these floating saunapreneurs caught the bug and inspiration from their times in Oslo, including the just christened Alex and Gabe's aptly titled Fjord Sauna, the first floating sauna in San Francisco Bay Area. And soon to be launched, we will visit with Kate Butchart, an American who lived in Oslo for seven years, who is introducing Kos Sauna, the first floating sauna to open on Saratoga Lake in Saratoga Springs, NY, scheduled to debut in September 2025. Kos "koos" translates from Norwegian as a concept meaning cozy joy—simplicity that fosters small delights and community. Sound familiar? Well, let's get to it. From the floating sauna bench in Oslo Norway, I am pleased to bring you this episode of Sauna Talk!

This episode of Sauna Talk comes to you from London, England—on the morning after the British Sauna Summit. I meet up with Stig Arild Pettersen, Secretary General of the Norwegian Sauna Association, at Hackney Baths. It's the perfect setting for a conversation about what's happening in sauna culture right now—not just in Norway, but across borders. Stig is also the host of Badstuprat, Norway's version of Sauna Talk, and together we compare notes on what many are calling the "Badstu Boom." From Britain's emerging bathing renaissance to Norway's deeply rooted sauna traditions, we explore how sauna culture is evolving in different parts of the world—and what connects it all. Stig and I share a common appreciation for good heat, authentic sauna experiences, and the positive energy that comes from a culture rediscovering itself. We talk about how sauna lives in the DNA of Norway, much like Finland, and how new generations are helping carry that tradition forward. We also touch on pockets of strong sauna culture in North America—places where climate, water, and heritage have long supported the practice—and how those regions compare to what's happening across the Atlantic. Just hours after this conversation, I'm on a flight from London to Oslo to experience the Badstu Boom firsthand—something special about talking sauna in one country, then stepping directly into it in another. The Sauna Talk global series continues. Good heat knows no borders. From the bench at Hackney Baths, please welcome Stig Arild Pettersen.

Welcome to this special episode of Sauna Talk, recorded at the Culture of Bathing gathering in New York City, January 2025. This is a bit of a two-part conversation. We begin with a behind-the-scenes discussion featuring Adam of Thermë USA, who moderates a panel of public sauna operators from across North America. Together, they reflect on the gathering itself and the growing interest in sauna as a shared, public experience. From there, we move into the live panel discussion, recorded in front of an audience of nearly 100 attendees. Joining the conversation are: Annette, from Tampa Bay, Florida Kelly, from Hudson Valley, New York Stephanie, from Montreal, Quebec Each brings a unique perspective on what it takes to build, operate, and sustain public sauna in their respective regions. What emerges is a snapshot of a movement in progress. Public sauna in North America is still finding its footing—shaped by climate, culture, regulation, and community—but there's a clear and growing momentum. These are the voices helping define what that future looks like. From New York City, please enjoy this special episode of Sauna Talk.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome back Jon Sabes. Jon first joined us on Episode #61, and in this conversation, we reconnect on the same sauna bench in Minneapolis. He's in town from Los Angeles for a winter weekend, and we meet after a cross-country ski on Lake Minnetonka—just as the sauna is coming up to temperature. There's something about talking with authors on the bench. The conversation tends to flow easily—like good steam in the hot room. Jon's new book, Healthy Wealthy Longevity, is at the center of our discussion. It's a thoughtful guide to living with intention, built on the idea that small, consistent actions shape the bigger picture of our lives. On the bench, we explore a few key themes from the book: How daily habits compound over time—for better or worse The connection between physical health, financial well-being, and emotional balance The role of intentional living in creating a fulfilling life Jon shares practical insights drawn from his own experience, along with perspectives that feel both grounded and applicable. I've also been using Jon's daily journal, which complements the ideas in his book—helping bring structure, clarity, and a sense of gratitude into the everyday. In addition to his work as an author, Jon serves on the board of the Sauna Research Institute, where there are some exciting developments underway in the world of sauna and health. From the sauna bench in Minneapolis, please welcome Jon Sabes.

This episode of Sauna Talk comes from a fireside gathering at the West Coast Sauna Summit, held at Loon Lake in the UBC Malcolm Knapp Research Forest. It was late in the evening on the second night. Some were still cycling through the saunas. Others had turned in. But about 25–30 of us gathered in a circle—some in sandals, some barefoot, some wrapped in towels or robes—for an impromptu Sauna Talk. No stage. No agenda. No script. Just a group of sauna people, settling in after a full day, ready to share thoughts, ideas, and a few laughs. This is the kind of moment that's hard to plan—and maybe impossible to recreate. By this point in the gathering, the formal presentations were behind us. The introductions had been made. What remained was a sense of ease, openness, and connection. Seven or so mobile saunas sat just outside, lakeside. The heat, the cold water, the fresh air—it all carried into the conversation. Co-producer Valtteri called us together: "Ok everybody, let's gather our chairs in a circle. Let's Sauna Talk." And we did. What follows is a free-flowing, sometimes wandering conversation—full of perspective, humor, and those small moments that tend to stay with you. There's something special about the West Coast sauna scene. Open, collaborative, and grounded in nature. No gatekeeping—just a shared appreciation for good heat, cold water, and the people who gather around it. A big thank you to Linda and Valtteri for creating the space, the energy, and the spirit that made this conversation possible. From the fireside at Loon Lake, please enjoy this episode of Sauna Talk.