Bad Idea #44 "Vegi products are unhealthy’" with Nesli Sözer

About this episode

Nesli Sözer discusses the misconceptions surrounding ultra-processed foods and the flaws in the NOVA classification system.

Are ultra-processed foods really the enemy? In this conversation, Mark Lynas sits down with Nesli Sözer, research professor at VTT Technical Research Centre of Finland and founder of NAPKIN (Nordic Alternative Protein Knowledge and Innovation Network—yes, the best food acronym ever). Sözer dismantles the myth that processing itself makes food unhealthy, revealing why the NOVA classification system is scientifically flawed and how it threatens the future of sustainable protein. The UPF panic labels whole grain bread, cheese, and plant-based burgers as "ultra-processed" while ignoring what actually matters: nutritional composition. The irony? UPF fear-mongering pushes consumers toward "natural" meat—more expensive, less sustainable, fiber-free, and genuinely linked to cancer and disease. We over-consume protein and under-consume fiber. Processing can fix both problems. The real bad idea isn't ultra-processing—it's letting pseudoscience derail the food system transformation we urgently need. 🧠 Topics Discussed: 🔬 NOVA classification: divides foods by processing degree, not nutritional quality 🍞 Absurd UPF examples: whole grain bread, cheese, canned foods…

People in this episode

Host: Mark Lynas

Guest: Nesli Sözer

Topics covered

• NOVA classification
• ultra-processed foods
• nutritional composition
• sustainable protein
• fiber crisis
• fermentation

Keywords

• ultra-processed foods
• myth dismantling
• food processing
• sustainable protein
• pseudoscience

Mentioned in this episode

Products: Solar Foods, whole grain bread, cheese, plant-based burgers

Places: Finland, EU, Singapore

More episodes of Saving the World From Bad Ideas

• Bad Idea #49 "We can stop worrying about the climate" with Zeke Hausfather · April 23, 2026 · 1h 13m
• Bad Idea #48 "Vaccines are overrated" with Seth Berkley · April 16, 2026 · 46 min
• Bad Idea #47 "Geothermal energy is niche" with Terra Rogers · April 8, 2026 · 56 min
• Bad Idea #46 "Conspiracy Theories" with Calum Matheson · April 1, 2026 · 1h 4m
• Bad Idea #45 "Eating wildlife is more sustainable’" with Sylvia Earle · March 25, 2026 · 1h 48m
• Bad Idea #43 "Fishing in the Antarctic" with Matt Savoca, Ted Cheeseman, and Lucia Morillo · March 12, 2026 · 1h 16m