The 18STRONG Podcast

Guest: Bo Watson & Shannon Shuskey (In the Zone Mental Training, Authors In the Zone Secrets)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 371Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we explore the intricate dance between the mind and the golf swing with mental training experts Bo Watson and Shannon Shuskey of In the Zone Mental Training. Together, we unravel the significant impact of mental coaching in conjunction with golf instruction. Hear about Bo’s personal struggles with golf and the pivotal role Shannon’s expertise played in not just refining his game, but transforming the way he—and any golfer—can harness the power of visualization. From the tee box to the final putt, this conversation is a treasure trove for those looking to elevate their mental game and savor the joy of golf like never before. Listen in as we discuss the transformative power of mindset in sports performance. Shannon opens up about his journey from anxiety-ridden to confident, culminating in becoming a national champion speed skater, and how that mental shift can be equally effective on the golf course. Skepticism meets evidence when Bo applies a custom mental trigger, leading to astonishing improvements in his game after a two-year break. This dialogue will leave you pondering the potential for mental techniques to revolutionize sports and how a single change in perception can be a game-changer. We round out our conversation with an insightful look into mental imagery’s role in sports performance and technique, the concept of ‘caveman golf’ for achieving flow, and the psychological intricacies unique to golf. Discover how legends like Tiger Woods and Sam Snead leverage mental imagery to perform under pressure and how these techniques can empower you to reset mentally on the course. As Bo and Shannon share their book insights and their passion for the game, this episode is not just a lesson in golf—it’s an invitation to transform how you approach every shot, mentally and emotionally. Bo and Shannon’s Background Bo is the Co-Founder of In The Zone Mental Training and Co-Author of the new book called In The Zone Secrets. He has been a host of 2 Consistent Golf Summits and the Road2TheTour Golf Summit, which collectively drew over 20,000 registered attendees. These Summits featured some of the world’s best coaches such as Sean Foley, James Sieckmann, David Orr, Mark Broadie, Scott Fawcett, Nick Clearwater, Dr. Kwon, Andrew Rice, and many others. The primary purpose behind these summits was to help golfers shortcut their path to consistent golf! Shannon was the Operations Manager of the largest Golds Gym on East Coast and Mental Performance Mastery Coach for 20 years, Sports Performance Specialist for 30 years, specifically working in the sport of speed skating, coaching hundreds of high level athletes in including several Olympic qualifiers and medalists. It was Shannon’s mental training techniques that helped his athletes achieve such high levels that intrigued Bo to try them on himself for golf. The success of this “experiment” led to the partnership that is now the helping golfers all over the world shoot their lowest scores ever. Bo and Shannon’s mission is to help 100,000 golfers shoot their new lifetime low rounds. They currently work with Tour Players, College Golfers, and the everyday golfer who wants to play their best golf yet! Main Topics (00:03) The Mental Edge Mental coaching and visualization can enhance golf performance and enjoyment, discussed by In the Zone Mental Training. (11:06) Triggering Performance Excellence Transformational journey in sports performance, from anxiety to confidence, using custom triggers to improve without practice. (21:45) Mental Imagery in Sports Performance Nature’s mental imagery in sports includes basic visual and kinesthetic techniques for skill acquisition and muscle memory. (29:02) The Power of Caveman Golf Nature’s “caveman golf” focuses on target and flow, contrasting with pursuit of perfect swing. Psychological aspects and influence of Alex Morrison also discussed. (36:26) Mental Imagery in Golf Techniques Exploring mental techniques of top golfers like Tiger Woods, importance of protein for athletes, and power of positive mindset in golf. (47:14) Mental Imagery and Performance Enhancement Mental approaches in golf, interest-curiosity mindset, anxiety and reward value, “ball reset” technique, positive self-talk and imagery, Sam Snead’s success. (59:00) Golf Book and Course Recommendations Bo and Shannon share insights from their book, discuss impactful books and dream golf foursomes, and recommend inspiring social media accounts. Follow Bo Watson & Shannon Shuskey Instagram Bo Watson: @schooloflifetimelowrounds Shannon Shuskey: @shannonshuskey Links Mentioned Website: IntheZonementalTraining.com Book: InthezoneSecrets.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff Pelizzarothe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 371, with bo watson and shannon Shushkey of in the zone mental training. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode we have Bo Watson and Shannon Shushkey, the creators of the In the Zone mental training and the authors of the recent book In the Zone Secrets. And today’s episode is awesome because we’ve got the mental side, we’ve got the golf side. Bo’s background is in golf instruction and is a high level golf coach and went through a period of time where he was a little frustrated with the game, ended up actually leaving the industry. But when he met Shannon Shushkey, who is a mental game coach, performance coach, but really his background is in speed skating and working with speed skaters, but learned how to teach them and work with them on getting in the zone, when the two paths crossed, they started to figure out that this could be a game changer for the game of golf. So in this episode we go deep into visualization and what it looks like to really visualize to help your performance on the golf course, what it looks like when you step on the tee box and what that mental rehearsal and work really should look like and ends up looking like if you’re going to shoot lower scores. We also talk about how you can accelerate swing changes. Often we hear that when you’re working on the mental game, should you be looking at the shot or should you be looking at what your body’s doing? So we talk about how working on your mental game and your visualization can actually help accelerate your swing changes and how you can drop your scores without physical practice. So we’re going to go into depth on controlling the images that you see, controlling your emotions out on the course and ultimately enjoying the game even more. You’re going to really enjoy this episode with Bo and Shannon. Our partners over at Link Soul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview Bo Watson, shannon. 0:02:51 – Bo WatsonShushkey, welcome to the 18STRONG Podcast. 0:02:54 – Shannon ShuskeyThanks for having us. Yeah, thanks for having us. This is exciting. 0:02:56 – Jeff PelizzaroAbsolutely. This is going to be an exciting one for me and our 18STRONG crew. I know, bo, I kind of heard of you guys through your connection with Carl Morris and being on Carl’s show and Carl’s one of our favorites over here at 18STRONG and you guys did a great episode with him that I’m also going to encourage everybody to listen to and we’ll put that in the show notes. So I know that just by listening to that episode going through your book, the philosophies are so aligned with what we believe here at 18STRONG, just as far as the intention of the game is really for us to really enjoy it. And I think that you know, obviously by playing better you enjoy it more. But you guys go so much into the idea that you know putting this intention into playing better allows you to really enjoy the game more. And it’s about even bigger things than the game too. So first of all I just want to kind of preface that to our audience that they’re in for quite a ride here with you guys. I would love to start out with and, bo, I’ll kind of throw this at you I’d love for you to start out with a little bit of the background of how you two met because I think the story of your connection and where you were mentally in your career and everything, bo, is really crucial to the story. And then how Shannon came in. 0:04:10 – Bo WatsonYeah, it’s always a funny story to tell, because where I was is where I think a lot of people are kind of in their game right now or have been at some point in their golfing journey and so kind of give a little bit of a context behind that. In 2016, I actually stepped away from the game Like I closed down my golf school. I was a very successful golf coach up to that point. I’ve been blessed to learn over some of the best in the game. You know the who’s who, so to speak, and mainly that’s because of my relationship with David, or those of you of you that aren’t familiar with David Orr. David’s considered the best putting coach in the world. Him and Phil Kenyon are kind of battling neck and neck for that title. But the thing is, because of that relationship, because I was at school at Campbell and I fell in love with teaching a game, I left school, opened my own golf school and I’m having a lot of success. But the problem was, as a coach, I’m a type, a type personality. Every person that comes and sees me I want to help and, you know, kind of give you some background on our track record. We were averaging 4.7 shots dropped across handicaps, uh, for every student that we worked with, on average in about a six month time span. So we were doing a little bit better than the industry average at the time. You know, golf Tech prides themselves on seven strokes in a year. We’re doing a little bit better than them. So I kind of like to say that and rub that a little bit in the Clearwater space a little bit. But the thing is, at the end of the day I still had, you know, a few students coming to me and I couldn’t help them. And the ones that I couldn’t help, jeff, were the ones that were like hey, bo, why is it that I always start terribly on the front side but then I play amazing on the back? And it could be vice versa. I mean it could be. You know, they play really well, shoot like 36, 37, 35 on the front, and then they go to the backside and shoot 46, 48. And you know, some of them would have this trouble of getting to this one hole and it’s a negative habit loop and that’s like no matter what they do, they always hit in the water. And it was those kind of students I didn’t have an answer for and I’ll tell you. It came to a head in september 2016. I’ll never forget it. It’s september, it’s late in the evening, he’s my last lesson of the night and we we basically had an honest conversation where I said you know what? I can’t help you and the the interesting thing about this one particular student was that, on paper, strokes gain data. When we go out and be playing lessons together, we go out and play a few holes, the data is showing that he should be in the 70s and even on top of that when we do lessons and we’re working on his game ball striking wise, this guy should be a low, single digit handicapper. But the issue was, when you go and play in tournaments, it would be high 80s, low 90s every time he goes out and plays and I, finally, I just I don’t have an answer and we decided to part ways. I got fired that evening and, uh, that was like the final straw for me because it finally came to head, where I was so frustrated, not only not being able to help my students, but the biggest reason was because, personally, as a player, I still had yet to overcome these obstacles in my own game, and then I, when I left that evening, I shut down the golf school. I started putting out resumes and I started applying to different jobs, and then I left the game of golf for good and had no intention of ever coming back into the game until two years later. I meet this guy, shannon Shushkey, at a dinner one night. And then, you know, I got to say and be honest, my game changed, but then my life also changed as a result of it. 0:07:52 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that’s why I’m now here and loving what I do on a daily basis. So, Shannon, if you could kind of pick up where you met Bo. 0:08:02 – Shannon ShuskeyI know you guys went out to dinner, I believe, and it had nothing to do with golf, right? No, absolutely. I was over the ministry team at our church and I was leading prayer class and he was wanting to be on the ministry team and stuff like that, and so I wanted to go out just to get to know him. And what’s crazy is you can’t make this up he was working at a place where I just quit, probably about two years prior to that or a year prior to that, and so I was like, okay, this is first and foremost. That’s uncanny, you know, but you can’t make up the story of how we met and because, once we got there and at the restaurant we were eating and with how, everything, we didn’t even get to know each other. I was sharing with him the things that I’ve experienced when it comes to speed skating and being able to trigger my body to get in the zone on demand at the flip of the switch, and he was like there’s no way. And I was explaining to him where I was in my speed skating, how it literally transformed me as a competitor. Um, for example, what happened with me was, um, my background. I played soccer, played semi-pro, so I was pretty fast with shoes on, but then you put skates on. What in the world was going on? It’s a different monster that was out there, and I was getting last off the starting line, um, every single time. Now, here’s the thing the team that I skated for we had 22 national champions in the prospective age group, so it was kind of like me going out against a who’s who I was like a 30-year-old, you know, going against these kids, however, and so I’m getting last off the starting line in practice, not just in practice, but at meets and everything like that. But I knew that there was a mental disconnect, because whenever we were playing around and we’d have our shoes on or whatnot and we would race, I would beat them hands down, hands down. So I knew it’s just like in golf. You know how often um, you did, does your listeners and everybody’s listening this podcast, for example. You know you can play lights out on the golf range, but yeah, when it comes time to any kind of pressured situation or just going out to the golf course, the change in atmosphere, the environment and stuff like that, and it’s like, okay, where did my game go? That’s what was going on with me and so I was getting mental reps in and literally after I figured out with this concept and this system that I developed, literally within one month I started beating. I would say I was probably getting about halfway through off the starting line and then, within a little over a month, I was winning every single start. And then a month and a half I was winning every start, not just practice, but at meets. And then there was a huge shift, even like literally my I was not nervous before any race. That changed. I was going in more confident and as a result of that, on top of that and it was like, okay, a name is, is just a name. But when I stepped up to the stop of mel, whether this is true or not, a name is just a name but mentally, going up to the starting line, I knew that I was the one to beat. Now, whether that was true or not, I mean I would race world champions knowing that I wasn’t, you know, on the same level as them, but mentally, a whole shift. And so I’m sharing with Bo on this system I literally the whole, I mean probably an hour and a half and I’m sharing with him how to trigger his body and stuff like that. Now his reaction was not what I thought was going to happen, because he was laughing at me. He was like there’s no way, you can’t do this, not for the game of golf. And then he’s laughing. He’s like I’m going to go out and I’m going to prove you wrong, right? And so then I was like, well, I pulled out my phone and I started showing him a few things. But now I’m going to transition. I went, you know, uh oh and by the way, not just, not just me when it starts either becoming national champion and breaking the record in speed skating, and so that was a huge game ship game changer for me. But then I’ll let uh both kind of finish the story on what happened the rest of that night and then the next two months yeah, I’ll see what everybody is is probably thinking right now at this point, and that is this is totally full of crap. 0:12:52 – Bo Watsonand that’s what I said to shannon that night when he said, you know, I wasn’t able to get my speed skaters or trick their bodies in the zone down. To get some context for you guys, he had coached 142 national champions, eight world champions, two Olympic medalists. Now that’s a hall of fame resume. And that’s what prompted me to be like well, that’s amazing, like what did you do? And then that’s when he dropped the bomb on me, so to speak, and he said I was able to get my speed skater stricter by his end his own and I I literally laughed, and I still laugh because I feel like there is absolutely no way this could be true. Because I said look, from my own experience, you know, when I struggled in high school and when I started, you know doing everything under the sun like getting, you know, training days, reading all the books and living on Golf Channel Academy Live and I’m trying to do everything I can to get the edge in my own swing. You know, again, kind of falling into the trap of the search for the perfect swing and unfortunately that made me worse and then, as a result, it sidetracked me to a point where I thought everything was mental. So I read all the mental game books out there and you name it, I read it and I read those outside of the game of golf. And I said, shannon, you realize that sports psychologists and these authors have all said what the zone looks like, but nobody has ever found a step-by-step process on how to get there. And you’re telling me that you figured that process out. And he said yes, and I said I still don’t believe you. And it was at that point when Shannon said earlier, he pulled out his phone and he starts like going through and he’s finding these text messages of all of his world champions, the Olympic medalist that he coached and these other national record holders, and they’re all saying the same thing Jeff, custom trigger, custom trigger, custom trigger. And I said you know, okay, this may work for speed skating, but I said, jeff, it’s not going to work for golf. I said there’s no way. And he kind of pushed me a little bit further and then he walked me through an exercise and we can get through that in a second. But it really opened my eyes and I said, all right, this may work. And I said, Shannon, if this does work, this is going to change a game of golf overnight. And I said you know what? I’m the best prime candidate that could prove this, if it does work for golf. And I said here’s why. I said I haven’t touched a club in two years, I haven’t played around in two years and nor do I even really have a desire, but this is intriguing enough to where I will come out and go and play and see if this thing actually works or not. And I said here’s what I’m gonna do. I’ll take what you’re gonna teach me. I’m not gonna practice. I’m not even go to range, I’m only gonna go straight to the first tee. I might hit a few pots on the day of the time I’m playing, and that’s it. That’s what I. Eight rounds in the second half of 2018. I go six out of the eight rounds under par. I go from an index before the 2.4 plus 1.7 within that same time frame, and the rest is history. We’ve done some amazing things ever since, but yeah, that’s kind of a quick run around how we came together. 0:15:40 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean it’s such an incredible story and I love hearing it again. I mean it’s such an incredible story and I love hearing it again, and just like I can only picture you sitting at that dinner table, you know, just kind of like laughing, like, yeah, okay, this guy, you know, and then he starts rattling off. You know like who he’s worked with and you start to see those, and then it’s kind of like, okay, let’s. But you were saying that you thought it’d be different from golf, because golf is so different from other sports, right? And so, shannon, first I want to ask you it sounds like you first kind of figured this out for yourself and started to implement it into your own practice speed skating, into your own endeavors athletically, then started to teach it what, like where did the shift come from? Or what is that missing ingredient that so many other coaches have not been able to put their finger on, that you were able to just kind of inherently figure out for yourself. 0:16:35 – Shannon ShuskeySo what’s interesting is? It’s funny because this is even mind blowing to me, because all the books that I read up until that point I was doing it plain wrong than what they were saying. But it actually goes down to when Psychology 101 actually took that in college and if anybody’s ever taken that as an elective or as a psychologist, we’ve worked with doctors and psychologists and stuff like that too. They’ve heard of Pavlov’s dogs and which is so in the, in the study. With Pavlov’s dogs there would be a light or a buzzer, a sound or anything like that, and then what would happen is food would drop down for the dog to eat and then what happened is they noticed two different things in classical conditioning. They noticed the behavior of the dog, but then also salivating. We hear a lot about the salivation part of it, but we don’t really necessarily talk about about the behavior, and everybody has a dog can do this. You, as soon as you get food out, what’s going on? The dog starts jumping around, it starts doing in circles and stuff like that. Right, that’s the behavior, but also the salivation that was going on with the dog. The light would come, the food, and then what happens is a week later they were come the food. And then what happens is, a week later they were training the dog. So then what happens is two couple weeks later, or a short term, spin came they. They noticed that when the trigger went, that the light or the buzzer went off, and then that would not drop food, the dog would. Behavior would be the same thing, but also the dog would be salivating. And see, that’s what I was doing. I was figuring out okay, I’m going to do a trigger to get my body there, but then I’m also going to put the pieces of the puzzle together using kinesthetic mineral imagery. And where, at the time, I didn’t know anything about kinesthetic mineral imagery, it just so happened that the definition of it actually is exactly what I was doing, right, um? And so the important thing is like, when you’re doing mental imagery, um, you have to have all your five senses activated, I mean at a high level. You know, you want to be attention to detail, like, for example, if the wind is blowing, can you feel the wind? You know, and not just that, you know the sights. What are you seeing? Can you see the dimples in the in the ball? Can you hear? You know when you swing your club, you know, going to hit it, uh, and stuff like that. So then I was that’s what I was doing with my mental imagery was I was making it so real, getting all five senses, uh, involved. But however um, I like to use it this way when it comes to mental imagery, there’s actually seven senses and getting seven senses involved. The reason why I say that is because, number one, you got to have limb movement, your arms, your body, body movement going into it. You got to feel it, you got to do it and, matter of fact, the more that you do it, matter of fact, there’s been numerous studies when people have been hooked up with electrodes and EMGs and stuff like that. And when you’re doing mental imagery, the ones that are making it real, they actually their muscles are twitching, they’re firing and stuff like that. But then also that the seventh sense is adding emotion to it, because your emotion can change, how focused you get, how dialed in that you can get, for example, making the target feel like a magnet pulling you to it. You know what I’m saying when it’s almost like okay, even though aim small, miss small, but it seems like that target is huge because you’re just so dialed and locked into it, and so that’s what I was doing. I was getting those three pieces, the trigger with the emotion and the mental imagery in there. So then, when it came time for me to perform, I was doing it. So that’s what I was sharing with Bo that night. But I was going step by step by step on how to do it, and so that was basically a long answer to your question there. 0:20:47 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, that’s great, and I want to get as much as we can out of this short time that we have together so we can give some people some actionable steps. And then obviously you know we can’t put a whole book in an episode, so then they’ll want to go get the book and, you know, dissect every single piece. But you talk about kinesthetic mental imagery and psychoneuromuscular imagery, psychoneuromuscular training, and I want to kind of break those down a little bit. But what’s the difference between kinesthetic mental imagery and mental imagery? You guys make a distinction in the book, because I think that most of us hear about visualization and, like you just said, we picture what we’re trying to do and I think we’ve all tried this as golfers. But you guys go into so much more detail about those kind of things. But can you differentiate really between kinesthetic and mental? Is that simply bringing in the emotion and the movement, adding those pieces? 0:21:44 – Bo Watson100%. Mental imagery is in its most basic form. It’s just simply just seeing things Like there’s no emotion that’s attached to it. It’s just, I would say, visualization 101, kind of like what most people are doing on a very basic level that they’ve been taught. I’m a big fan of Vision 54, what Len and Pete have done, and so when the people are standing back in a think visualization box, I think the simplest way to describe what mental imagery versus kinesthetic mental imagery is is. Mental imagery is you’re just simply just close your eyes and you’re just seeing the shot, like there’s nothing else that’s really attached to it. Kinesthetic mental imagery is where you’re taking it to a totally different level, meaning you’re now putting in all the awareness what you’re hearing, what you’re seeing. Maybe you can even see yourself like tasting like Gatorade, or if you’re drinking a beer in the round and you’re just walking up to the tee box, you’re hearing your playing partners over to the side. You know you’re also more engaged with the detail, like what Shannon just shared. But the other piece of this is again what Shannon just shared when moving. So you’re actually physically feeling the movements as you’re doing it and then, last but not least, the emotion that’s attached to it. And so when you look at the two types and then you look at all the studies there have been numerous studies and we have a lot of those referenced in our book at the end of the book but I guess it’s really fascinating when you see what kinesthetic mental injury is doing for people when it comes to like rehab, when it comes to, you know, even strength gains. You know there have been numerous studies out there where people are just doing uh, shannon can reference that in a second but like there are numerous studies where people just do tennis, study mental injury of them doing an exercise or workout and yet they’re still seeing amazing strength gains versus just doing it physically only and so like when you do the combination of two, I mean it’s like a massive, like knockout punch, so to speak, and so you can really accelerate things. And this is true even when it comes to the swing and how you want to improve your swing and you want to do a swing change. This is how you would do it and you can accelerate in a shorter time span. But I will say this about kinesthetic mental injury because shannon kind of alluded to it earlier. One of the best early examples was in 1980. The author of the study was Suinn S-U-I-N-N. You can go look this up. And what was so cool about the study is they studied an Olympic downhill skier and what they did was they had him actually physically go out and do the actual training of the course, where he was running down the slopes and everything, and they had his muscles hooked up and so they’re measuring off the ekg I think that’s what it’s called and they’re seeing the muscle activity. But then they sat him down and he is physically sitting completely still and they’re having him go through the course in his mind and he’s engaging all the sensors and what was fascinating is that his muscles were actually firing at a even higher level than when he was doing it physically well so that was one of the big I guess you would say um hallmark studies, that kind of like got a lot of other people on board and so this has been a big, heavily researched topic over the last like 40 years, uh, since that one study came out. It has been really fascinating. People go down a rabbit hole really quick when you get on the kinesthetic mental imagery. 0:25:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So, shannon, when you’re talking about the kinesthetic and feeling the limbs moving, you’re not actually standing up and like practicing a swing. You’re literally just trying to tap into the feelings that you would have when you’re out there. Is that correct? To tap into the feelings that you would have when you’re out there Is that correct? 0:25:25 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, absolutely. However, what we want to do is because, for example, a beginner, when it comes to doing mental imagery, what we would have them do is physically do a swing and then do mental imagery of that swing and go back and forth. So then that way you’re getting the feeling of it dialed in right, because it’s fresh on your mind. You know, we always say when you’re going out, you know, when you’re on the golf course, you’re doing your swing twice, you’re playing the round at least twice. It’s sometimes three times or four times, not just once, because mentally you’re rehearsing it over different, different shots over and over again in your head. And so that’s one of the things that we’re doing when it comes to that like and and then you. Then there’s levels of mental imagery that we actually talk about in the book. We call them five levels of mental imagery, and that’s the basic level, and the elementary, preschool level is all right. Let’s get the feeling dialed in, and that’s how you get it done. Like you can go out to the range, for example, get your balls there, go through your pre-shot routine, hit the ball and then do mental imagery of what that felt like, and then just keep alternating back and forth and then do more mental imagery going in there. So then you’re actually feeling it. So then, but then when you get your mental reps away from the course, that’s where all your gains are. A lot of people think that their gains are on the golf course. No, that’s just, that’s like taking your test right. You’re getting everything away from the golf course before you even get there. Because if you wait till you get there, it’s too late. Your body’s going to react to what you’re, what you’re, what we’re saying here for. So you got to get your reps away from the course. It’s just like you know, going to the gym, you know somebody is trying to lose weight, they go to the gym, you know, to the gym, you know somebody’s trying to lose weight. They go to the gym, you know. And then they come home and then they look at uh, look in the mirror. They’re like, well, nothing, nothing happened, I’m done. No, that’s not how it works, right, you have to give your body time to start reacting to it by going to your mental gym and getting those reps in and getting the feeling of that swing. Um, not just that, because here’s the thing your driver’s gonna feel a lot different than your putter. So you gotta get them all dialed in, not just one, and it takes some work, don’t get me wrong. But here’s the thing is it hard work? Absolutely not. It’s actually pretty easy. You know you’re not going out and breaking sweat and suffering when you’re doing it, it’s just, it’s easy work, but you just got to get the work done. 0:28:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you mentioned there’s different levels of this and obviously we start at the beginning level and most people have tried to go and visualize, right, I think we’ve all been there and I would say that one of the big dilemmas that people come into is well, am I visualizing this shot or am I visualizing internally what my body’s trying to do? And I know we’ve had, you know, carl and Gary on the show and they talk a lot about well, does the shot create the swing? Does the swing create the shot? Is it internal focus? Is it external focus? Bo, I’m going to leave this one to you. How do we differentiate where that focus is? Is it both? Is one helping to foster the other? And what direction do you give people when they’re kind of stuck between, I don’t know, am I working on me or am I working on what that shot looks like? 0:28:55 – Bo WatsonYeah, it’s a fantastic question and it really depends on where the player is and their journey and where they’re at in the system. So, like one thing that we always want to get a player to is ultimately what we call caveman golf. We know our best performances are going to come from caveman golf. So what does that look like? It’s C target, c ball, hit ball. That would be basically a caveman’s approach to playing golf at a high level. And you know what’s funny Every time I have a conversation with a golfer in our community, you know the common denominator I always hear from every single one of them when they tell me like their best round was, or their lifetime low ground. The common denominator across every single one of them was I was in a zone, I was in a close state. Okay, let’s go down a little bit deeper. Did you have swing thoughts throughout the round? You know what every single one of them said no, I did not. And then I go and press a little bit deeper. I’ll say what was your main focus, my target? And that’s why, like, one of the most important things that people can write down and always remember is where your attention goes energy flows. And there are so many studies out there in multiple different sports that have backed up this idea that even though your technique could be off, for an example, but if you intuitively know that this is your target, your body will compensate in a way to get a ball, whatever sport it is, from point a to point b, and I mean they’ve done it in so many different studies and so many different sports. But it’s true for golf too, which is why, like, yes, working in a swing is important. You’ll never hear me say that technique is not important. It is um. But at the same time, there’s got to be a healthy balance and unfortunately and I think this is what will help a lot of people listening to us and give me a little bit more context behind why what we’re teaching is so powerful is because, unfortunately, over the last 50, 60 years, this game has gotten this unhealthy pursuit of the search for the perfect swing, and that’s not the answer. You will never hear a major champion in a press conference after they just won a major championship, come back and say you know, today I won because I was able to hit my P3 position extremely well and then I was able to get my wrist flexion at 22 degrees at the moment of contact. And then I had my weight pressure, you know, with ground reaction forces and getting everything to move back into my left heel, and that’s where I had to snap and get the left lead leg. No, you never hear a major champion say that. What do they say? They said I was really dialed in, I could see my shot clearly today. And what do they say? They said I was really dialed in, I could see my shot clearly today, and it’s all those things. Even when you look at basketball, for example, you’ll never hear you know, kobe Bryant a late Kobe say yeah, I was, uh, I was able to get my knees bent at 24 degrees at the moment of my release and then I felt my pressure go back to my right heel when I actually landed and I knew that was my way of making shots. No, it’s always like I saw the shot and anybody that’s ever shot basketball, you know that if you think about mechanics, you’ll be looking at the backboard or much less at the rim at all, but when you shoot your best, it’s always because you had a clear vision of the arc, of the approach, of the ball going into the hoop and where you want it to go in at a certain Unfortunately. Yes, it is the hardest sport in the world, which is why I had to argue with Shannon early on when we were at dinner that night and why I said this couldn’t work. But what’s fascinating is over the last two years I’ve been on a lot of research and so to kind of give context to everything we’re doing, for those of you that are very scientific-minded and still skeptical, this is a system that is a blend of classical conditioning and what’s called operant conditioning. So it is psych mesmerizing. It is blending the custom trigger with the CPR kinesthetic, mental imagery. There you go. Those are pieces. But I want to go back to why this game has gotten away from its roots when you look at the best players in the game Sam Snead, tiger Woods, phil Mickelson, ben Hogan and then Jack Nicklaus and Mickey Wright on the LPGA Tour side of things. But I want to just focus on these four players just for a second. Sam Snead, ben Hogan they both shared the same coach. Who was that coach? Henry Pickard, jack Nicklaus first childhood coach, his name was Jack Rowe. Now Mickey Wright worked with a coach named Harry Pressler. Those were the three coaches Harry Pressler, henry Picker, jack Routt, who was all three of their coaches’ mentor. It was nameless Alex Morrison. Now who is this Alex Morrison guy? When you do research you find out this Alex Morrison guy was actually way ahead of his time and, honestly, we hope our work is actually paying a tribute to him, because he was actually the godfather of the one that wrote the book in 1940 called Better Golf Without Practice and, if I’m not mistaken, harvey Pinnock said Alex Morrison was one of the absolute best swings he’d ever seen in person. And that’s amazing when you consider all the people that he’s been around right Now. Here’s the thing about Alex Morrison. In that book, better Golf Without Practice, there was a comedian. He tells the story of a comedian, lou Lohr, and this guy could not break 90 to save his life. So everybody that’s listening, you’re struggling to break 100, you’re struggling to break 90. Well, you may want to pay attention to this part right here, because Lou Lohr tried everything under the sun, could not break 90 to save his life. And finally comes Alex Morrison and he said hey, I need help. What does Alex do? The total opposite of what everybody else does in this game. He didn’t go get training aids, he didn’t go and do full. You know so many hours of physical practice and do lessons physically on the range. Now what does Alex do? He sets them down in a chair and over the next two weeks all they do is basically kinesthetic mental imagery of him rehearsing what out of the system is called the five Morrison swing keys. That’s all they did, plus while actually playing around in his mind. Now what’s interesting is Lou Lord goes out his first round back and he actually shoots 87. Now here’s what’s crazy about that. Let’s go back to Sam Snead, those of you that are Bob Rotello fans, and Jeff. I don’t know if you’ve read Bob Rotello books. Did you ever read the Golfer’s Mind, that particular book? 0:35:07 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t know if I read that one. I read Golf is Not a Game of Perfect and a couple of the other ones. Yeah. 0:35:14 – Bo WatsonYeah. So in the Golfer’s’s mind book, in chapter two. This is so fascinating to me. Bob Rotella is giving a seminar that can make or break his career and he details it pretty, pretty bluntly, so to speak, because he said if Sam Snead gets up and says this guy’s a crook, you shouldn’t listen to him. Bob Rotello’s career would have ended right then and there in the game of golf. That’s what was on the line for him. Now he is nervous because Sam Snead does stand up after he gives his talk, but what comes out of Sam’s mouth was actually shocking to everybody in the room. Sam says we need to listen to this young man because he has a lot of truth of what he just shared, and what was interesting is what sam shares. Next he said the reason why I was so successful in my career was because the night before I would play my rounds, I would visualize it and do mental imagery of what I would see, my perfect shots. For the next day’s round, he said, I’d fall asleep between like hole 10 and 14, wake up next day, feel, go through my normal routine and I go and play a great round. And what’s so crazy about that is that he’s tied with Tiger with the all-time PGA Tour wins. Now, why did I say Tiger? Tiger won an early 2000s clinic and it’s also in his book. Tiger shared something that was really, really interesting and it’s the key to why he has made some of the most iconic putts on Sunday final round in majors and some of these events that he’s won over the course of his career. He said on the outside it looks like I’m calm and collected, but on the inside I’m extremely nervous, like when the pressure’s on. Now we would think that would be totally, you know, untrue, right? But this is what Tiger said. And he said when I’m nervous, when I’m going through these uh putts, this is what I do, and he’s walking everybody through it. And he said when I’m standing to the side of the ball, I’ll look, and then what I’m doing is I’m taking a picture. So if you go back to those old like polaroids, you know those little click pictures, right, the cameras, and that’s what he’s doing. And he’s like I’m looking, I’m taking a picture, and then I get up over the ball, I’ll take another look, I’ll take a picture. And then he said I’ll take one final look, I’ll take a picture, and then he’ll say all right, tiger, let’s putt to the pitcher, like Papa used to say. And that’s what is basically. I mean, that’s mental imagery right there and that’s a big key of why he’s made some of the most amazing putts over the course of his career. 0:37:36 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s unbelievable. Let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at First Form, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym, but also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your First Form Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free First Form products. So again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18strong. You know you talked about how with the game of golf being different than other sports and you know we don’t focus on the techniques when we’re basketball players and, shannon, I know you have a background in soccer. I played a lot of soccer growing up and I always go back to that. Or even baseball, like you never think about. If you get hit a ground ball and you’re at shortstop, what does it take to throw the ball to first base right versus if you were in center field and still had to throw it a second base? Like you’re never making calculations in your head, or I always find it amazing that if, even if I’m going out and messing around with my son’s soccer team and helping coach and I hit a pass and I put it right to a kid’s foot, that’s like running down the line. I’m like, how do I still know how to do that? Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t happen all the time, but you do that and you’re like why is golf not like that for most of us? But you’re saying that that’s really what you’re teaching it to be by implementing a lot of these techniques and these tactics of mentally rehearsing. Shannon, what does it look like when we’re actually on the golf course? So we’ve talked a little bit about. You know, like some of the training off the course but Bo mentioned the custom trigger earlier and I know that you know when we’re on the course, how do we then take some of this and what does it look like when we’re physically implementing day of game day? You know you’re standing on the tee box. 0:40:00 – Shannon ShuskeySo yeah, and so, um, standing on the tee box first, there, there’s several types of imagery that you do. Um, what I mean is is one is you want to see your shot pattern, how it’s going to go, the trajectory and stuff like that, but then you want to do your mental imagery before you know. Matter of fact, jason I believe it’s Jason day. He was notorious back when he was a PGA champion that, I mean, it was obvious. He’s there holding his club, he got his eyes shut and he’s going through his mental imagery, and so that’s one of the things that you do, because what it does is it’s teaching your body to react to it. Matter of fact, phil Mickelson I love in the interview that he was talking about, he makes it reactionary to when he makes the shot surrender in his brain. Like if you look at him and he’s staring off off and it looks like he’s in la-la land. That’s what he’s doing. He’s doing mental imagery making that shot surrender. So then when he’s confident and committed, he reacts to it, and then that’s when he steps into the play ball and then he goes and plays. That’s the important part. When you’re, when you’re going through your shots, is seeing that, and here’s a part. Here’s a thing you have to always vision the perfect shot. You don’t want to envision a bad shot, because what you’re doing is you are programming your brain and wiring your brain to perform negatively. A great example is Jacqueline Hernandez. She was in the Sochi Olympics. She was a downhill snowboard cross racer. And what was happening and you can actually look this up in the New York Times there was an article that was written because there was going around talking about mental imagery. Everybody’s doing mental imagery and all this stuff. However, when they got to her, she said that she kept seeing herself fall in this particular turn over and over again. And then what happens is she’s setting herself up as like a self-fulfilling prophecy. But here’s the thing she’s training her mind and body to react that way, going into that turn when she goes down. So here she is she’s going down, she’s making it, she’s taking her turn going down the hill and as she gets to that turn, guess what? Her muscles start reacting the way that she’s programmed it to do so many times before going into it. Where what happens is she starts feeling shaky. She starts oh no, here’s that turn. Mentally, she’s dreading going into that turn because she’s done it so many times negatively and she’s fallen. Well then, unfortunately, the hate that this happened. She actually fell and then she actually got knocked unconscious and had to carry her off because of it. Now that is like an extreme example of it. But just think in golf. It’s different. You’re shaking the ball, you’re topping the ball, you’re doing this. You know what I’m saying. So you want to actually visualize the perfect shot, but here’s the thing you can visualize coming out of a bad situation, going into a good situation. What, what? So this is the thing like when you’re going doing you know, for all the listeners going through your mental imagery. Don’t just think about you’re hitting the perfect shot off the perfect line every single time. No, you know you. Your limitation is in your imagination. What kind of lie are you in? Are you in a bad rut, deep grass? Are you hitting it off of near a root or something like that? You know what I’m saying, where there’s all these things that can actually take place. But then you’re actually performing the shot perfectly, seeing the shot shape and also as it reedmen, as in reading it. That’s the other thing too is like, when you like, answer your question again coming up, visualize the perfect shot where it goes to the, to the exact place where you want it to go every single time. And then that way, when you’re stepping in number one, you’re going to be a lot more committed, you’re going to be a lot more confident going into your shot. But then you got to trust your athleticism when it comes to when you address the ball that’s what Bo was talking about. Caveman golf, that’s what it is, it’s the less thoughts that’s going in your brain and literally trust your athleticism to pull off that shot that you just visualized. 0:44:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m picturing standing on a tee box and we’ve all got a hole that we kind of dread, or, you know, we’ve hit a couple bad shots and we’ve got these, these mental images of you know letting that ball fly out to the right and drop into the water or whatnot. And you guys talk about controlling that image and you warn that you know you have to. You have to pay attention to what image you’re putting in. What if we find ourselves stuck on that though, Like we are, we know, like, okay, the second hole at Boone Valley has water on the right. That second shot is daunting and I’ve seen my ball go in there a couple of times, right. So how do we stop perseverating on that image and break ourselves out of that chain, Even though you know, okay, you’re staying over the wall, All right, I think we all say don’t go in the water, don’t go in the water, and so it’s, you know, focus on putting it on the green. But how do we really break that? And I know that’s not an easy question to answer right here. 0:45:25 – Bo WatsonNo, that’s where we have to visit with two things. One, we have to mind map the negative habit, so like when we see a pattern. This is why journaling is so powerful and it’s one of the biggest reasons why we’ve seen a college team that we work with that was outside of the top 50 and now trending into the top 20. And, honestly, if we keep on the same path you know they were averaging over 305 as a team in the fall. Now they’re averaging 284 and they just set the third lowest scoring average in school history on their most recent tournament. So we’re trending in the right direction. But I’m going to tell you the biggest reason why that’s been possible is because of journaling and being very mindful to these details, because when, when we start seeing those kinds of negative, how to lose? Like you said, when we see shots over and over on this one particular hole going to water, we have to first become aware of what behavior and what thoughts are entering our minds when that’s happening. So when we shot a spotlight on what’s going on that triggers it, we can identify the old behavior and autopilot behavior that people just seem to. For whatever reason, we just keep doing the same thing over and over again, and that’s why we like to have these hard conversations. Once we identify there’s a negative habit loop, there is, for an example, let’s say, on that hole you hit it in the water like five times out of the last seven rounds and what we identify is you tense up and you’re trying to control your swing right. There’s always a reward value in our brain where whenever we do some type of behavior, there’s some type of reward for it. Even if you have a very low success rate, your brain will always take that part. Like that one time, four rounds prior, where you are still tense and you still try to control your swing, but yet you hit it 10 yards in from the water’s edge, but you’re safe, right. You will still keep doing that over and over and over again until finally you come to grips with. I like to ask this question to our players hey, out of the last 10 times you do this, what’s your success rate? And what they’ll come back and tell us is like 10%, 15%. I’ll say, okay, now we go deeper in this in the book. But that’s where we kind of teach this interest-curiosity approach that we want to take, and there’s a lot of research to back this up. That’s really, really cool. But when we take that approach where it literally updates reward value in our brain, so to speak Dr Rick Judson talks about this in his anxiety book it’s an amazing resource for that. But what we’ve done is we’ve kind of taken that and we applied it to the game of golf and we show it how it can be even more practical for this and that’s what we’re doing with our players is now we’re able to go. That’s interesting. I’m about to engage in this behavior that only has about a 15% success rate and what it does it gives you permission to go. Wait, that doesn’t make sense. Why would I do this? And then what we can do is is okay, let’s choose a better path. And that’s where the ball reset, which is in the very next chapter in a book where we go deep on that, and what that does is it literally I’ll help shannon’s uh way to explain it but it literally becomes a washing machine, so to speak, for the brain to do a hard reset. So we can take a player from a red light state. We can go deep into this if we need to, but we can take a player from a red light state. We can go deep into this if we need to, but we’re going to take a player from a red light state in the brain where there’s so many faults happening right after another. So just give a quick understanding of what the red light state is. You know, basically your brain has multiple different wave activity going on in the brain. So, like when there’s a lot of conscious level fault, your brain can basically become inflamed, so to speak, on some of these brain scans and it’s so fascinating because whenever we miss, like a three-foot putt or something like that, we got so many negative thoughts happening right after another after another. So just think of it that there’s a lot of activity going on, but when we do a ball reset, we can get a player back to green light state within about 10 seconds. That is about the equivalent of them doing 20 minutes of meditation or 20 minutes of yoga in the brain. Now that’s powerful because what we’re doing is we’re resetting the brain, so to speak, back to a green light state where they can process things. And you know you hear people say this all the time. You know you have what’s called a fight or flight response. You know some people call it the alligator brain, and so it’s like you know, now there’s a threat and the whole prefrontal cortex kind of goes offline, so to speak. And what this reset is doing is bringing on the parts of the brain that actually can function and do things at a normal level, so to speak. And that’s what we’re doing is we’re taking them through a process where we do the hard reset, getting back to a green light state. Then we’re falling out of power talk, and then on top of that, we’re having them relive an amazing shot in the past in a similar situation. And when they go through it in that process, they’re now excited when they get to the last L of the ball reset and look forward, and they’re excited to play this next shot. Now I’ll give you an example, and this is why Sam Snead was so dang good. Not many people know about this story, but we cover it in a book and I’ll share it for everybody here on this podcast. This is really cool. Those of you that struggle with anxiety, those of you that struggle with nervousness, listen to this. Sam Snead. He is in 1936, the week before he’s going to play in his PGA Tour debut tournament at the Greenbrier. Now he’s playing at the Greenbrier the week before. Now he’s playing with Greenbrier the week before. The head pro organizes an exhibition match. It’s got two former US amateur champions, one former US Open winner, now Sam Snead’s a rookie. Now word gets out there are so many people coming to watch this match and so there is a ton of people that’s surrounding the first tee Sam’s turn. Sam gets up. He is so nervous he is having to use both hands to steady the ball on the tee. Like can you imagine? Like that’s basically on the verge of a panic attack, if we’re being completely honest. Right, so he is trying to steady the ball on the tee with both hands. That’s how bad he was shaking. Now he collects himself, he walks back Probably lucky that he actually was able to walk back in that situation. But he’s standing behind the ball and what he does is he closes his eyes, and what he does is he then relives all of his amazing shots in the past on that same hole. He gets up, goes through his routine, hits the shot the crowd gasps. And when he looks and sees his ball flying, hits the shot, the crowd gasps. And when he looks and sees his ball flying through the air, not only is he outdriving his playing opponents by about 20 yards, but he hits it about 15 yards further than all of his most successful drives that he had hit on that hole in the past. Now wait a second. How does a guy go from on the verge of a panic attack to then hitting his most successful drive ever on the same hole? It was because what he did was doing mental imagery and that’s why it’s such a major piece for a ball reset in the first L when we do a look back that right there. We just had a conversation with one of our college players just yesterday. She had a scoring average of 77 from her first two seasons and right now she just threw the first three tournaments in this spring season. She’s averaging a 72.8. She said the ball reset has blown her secret weapon and it is one of the biggest, most powerful tools that people need that have been able to get people out of these negative habit loops and actually get them to a place where they can attack these things head-on wow. 0:52:31 – Jeff PelizzaroYou talk about how you know he he was able to relax and saw his ball go so much further. I remember you guys talking in the book about how so much of this is first of all changing your state to be in a more relaxed state, but then also helping to produce a better rhythm and tempo in your swing. And I, uh and that’s really where a lot of the extra distance and power comes from. We tend to get so focused on trying to muscle through our golf swing, trying to hit a ball further. But I think we’ve all experienced that relaxed swing that just you’re like whoa, how did that swing produce that effect? And I’ve even been doing a lot of research lately just on the body and fascia and how the tempo and the way that our body reacts with contraction versus relaxation and how those things play together with the rhythm. So it’s like so many things that you guys talk about, and then even the physical components from a training side of things, how they all mesh together, and it’s just fascinating to me things how they all mesh together and it’s just fascinating to me. One thing that I heard you guys talk about on Carl’s podcast was that along with your book, you have a workbook, and I think that that’s important to mention, because so many of us have read books along the lines of what we’re trying to do here, but we tend to read the books and then go on to the next book and go on to the next book. And so, shannon, if you could tell us a little bit about, kind of, the whole structure of your program and why the workbook was so essential to this piece and for people really getting results, I like to say this Our book will put your game on steroids, so to speak mental steroids. 0:54:17 – Shannon ShuskeyBut the workbook will put the book on steroids Because here’s the thing you’re going to learn everything a lot faster, first and foremost. But then also, we have activations that are in the workbook, because I mean, goodness, our book would be like a novel, would be huge, if we put everything in there, then downloads and everything like that. That’s in the workbook. And so we have certain activations like going out, doing certain things, playing, um, uh, we also give them like a schedule, it’s in the workbook. Like, for example, you’re like. We also give them like a schedule, it’s in the workbook. Like, for example, you’re like this mental energy, what, where do I start? What do I do? What are the guidelines? You know what am I working on? And here’s the thing we get. We set them, we set everybody up to for success. For example, like Bo mentioned, about the college coach you know I played soccer in college. About the college coach you know I played soccer in college. Um, I would be extremely let down if my soccer coach did not have a plan. And the same thing on speed skating. You know, with speed skating, that if my coach didn’t have a a thought, well thought out process on what I should be doing now and then not just now, but two months from now and in order for me to peak or to get to a certain level, and stuff like so then what we’ve done is we actually created schedules and things like that in there. All right, what are you working on? What do you need to work on? And then you know you, you can’t neglect any golf club. For example, we actually had one of the one of our tour players that we’re working with. Um, you know, after about two months, the the putting started struggling was because they neglected putting. You can’t, you can’t neglect anything, any part of the game, and so you basically got to do maintenance work, going through and doing it. But we, we show you, like, a lot of that stuff that’s in the workbook as well, going in there. And and here’s the other thing too um, I’ve noticed, like when it, when it comes to certain, uh, certain books, that you can go out, somebody will create a workbook that goes with it, right, and it’s like oh man, I’m gonna get that, there’s a workbook that goes with it. And then you look at it you’re like, wow, that’s not even by the author, right, right and then, and there’s, there’s no depth to it whatsoever. So we actually created a deeper depth so we can learn it faster. But then you, you, it’s, you’re, you’re becoming what the book is wanting you to be and you’re walking in your true identity awesome well, anything to add to that? 0:56:50 – Jeff Pelizzarolooked like you were. 0:56:51 – Bo WatsonYou wanted to add a little something that that last statement right there, is like the nail on the head because you are becoming the book at that point. And that is the main purpose behind why we created the workbook that way. They have something that is practical and that that’s always been all right. Some context there me personally and what I’ve seen a lot of other golfers complain about, and when it comes through the mental side of the game and these mental books that are out there and don’t get me wrong, like there’s a lot of good things out there, but one of the biggest comedy denominators I kept seeing over and over and over again and it was also true of me is that it’s very high philosophical, so to speak, but yet there’s no like practical, like ABC step one, two, three, and when it came to applying these things, that’s why you know when we created the book and then, more importantly, the workbook, it is like hey, here, start here, do this, do this, do this, and that way it’s like a clear path. But even better, you can actually measure Are you actually getting better? Because we have a business test that will actually measure your ability to visualize how good is your mental imagery, and we’ve taken people that have had like a low score of 24 and get that increase all the way up to as high as like 72, 73 over just like a couple months. And so that part is exciting, because now we have something that can actually measure are you getting better at the mental side of the game? And so that’s a big piece to it. 0:58:15 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, we also have like an anxiety test. Who would have thunk it? You know, when it comes to golf, you know what I mean. Like you know, like you had mentioned, like you got this hole that you dread or you got a tournament coming up, you know how do you change the nervous to exciting, but then you know what is your gauge that you’re going by. In other words, how are you going to do a check engine, like check for your brain, and then so we have an anxiety test. We’ve got a lot of self-evaluations that are in there that’s not in the book as well to where you can kind of see, if you’re transparent with yourself, it’s going to give you a much better performance because you know where to start, you know what I mean, and so it kind of gives you that. It kind of puts you in the starting blocks, ready for you to take off. 0:59:01 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and you guys do have quite a few downloads in the book too that I’m sure are part of the workbook as well. If they don’t have the workbook that they can go and do some of those things. Awesome, Bo. Where can they go find? 0:59:16 – Bo Watsonwhat’s the best place for them to find the book and everything that you guys are doing? Yeah, the best place it just goes simply to the website. It’s indesignsecretscom. So you just go to indesignsecretscom and what’s pretty cool is we created a really special offer. They can also get the book on Amazon and they can do that, and you go get a full price of $24.95 on Amazon. But if you get it through our website, it’s actually a personalized, autographed version of the book from both Shannon and I and we’re basically buying a book for you. All you have to do is just pay shipping and handling and it’s only $9.95 for that and we will send it out personalized, signed copy and there’s a couple other bonuses there too. So, yeah, you can get the book at either location, but if you go to our website, it’s onthezonessecretscom. 0:59:56 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, awesome, and we’ll make sure that all that’s linked up in the show notes and everything, fellas, we could. I mean, there’s so much in this book. Obviously, people are going to want to go and grab this and dig in a lot more after our conversation. There’s so many different avenues we could go down here, but unfortunately we don’t have the time to do that, so we’re going to finish up with the, the questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. Have a little fun with you, fellas. 1:00:23 – Shannon ShuskeyUm, shannon, I’ll throw this one out to you first, caddy shack or happy gilmore. Oh man, that’s tough. I would say I’m probably happy g Gilmore just because of that. You know, I’ve dealt with some of that stuff in the middle aspect. I thought you know we can overcome them. 1:00:42 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about? 1:00:44 – Bo Watsonyou Bo? Yeah, I thought about that. It’s definitely happy, gilmore, although it’s such a close tie. It’s just so funny, it is funny. 1:00:53 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, bo, if you could pick a walk-up song to the first tee box. What are you picking? 1:00:57 – Bo WatsonYou know, I still cannot figure out the name of the song, but it’s the. It’s the most popular Darude Sandstorm, that’s what it was. 1:01:08 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, shannon. 1:01:11 – Shannon ShuskeySo it’s by a Christian rap artist. His name is Andy Mineo, it’s called you Can’t Stop Me. I like the. And then he also had one that actually has been in a lot of commercials and it’s called Coming In Hot, okay, awesome. 1:01:28 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, shannon, what’s a book that you would recommend to the listeners? It doesn’t have to be golf, it doesn’t have to be anything related to what we’ve even talked about today, but something that means a lot to you, that you tend to share with people, that has made a big difference in your life. 1:01:45 – Shannon ShuskeyI would say the Power of One More by Ed Milet, just because it literally pushes you to a nother level in every single area of your life. You know um very similar. I would say like that’s, that’s what our book does as well. As far as like um, because you can apply what we teach in our book to everyday life, um, and actually champion um every area of your life as well. 1:02:14 – Jeff PelizzaroFantastic. 1:02:15 – Bo WatsonBeau. Well, besides God’s word, it would be probably Dale Carnegie how to Win Friends and Influence People, because that is an all-time classic and I love it because it just kind of expands on what it truly means to understand people and serve them, and I love that aspect of it. 1:02:38 – Jeff PelizzaroOne of the most popular recommended books we’ve had on the show so far. No All right, bo, if you could pick a dream foursome to go play golf with. Who are you picking and what’s your bucket list course that you would want to take him to? 1:02:53 – Bo WatsonWell, some of these guys would obviously be dead, but it would be Bobby Jones and one. It would have to be Alex Morrison and then probably Tiger, so I’d be the foursome. And then the course we go to, that’s not St Andrews or Augusta, would be the new, most talked about course right now in the Bahamas or the Caribbean, st Lucia, whatever it’s called. Can I go to St Lucia, play hardy golf? 1:03:21 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, yeah, yeah, that’s a. That’s a good little trip. 1:03:26 – Shannon ShuskeyYes, okay, yeah, yeah, that’s a good little trip, yeah, so my dream would be to walk with Bo and watch them play, because when it comes to golf, left-handed, right-handed, it don’t matter, it’s like I’ve got a third foot or something you know. 1:03:42 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. Well, I’m going to throw it back to you, though. Let’s say you just get to walk with the foursome. I want to hear your foursome that you’re picking, or three other guys that you would like to walk and just hang with. 1:03:55 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, I would say Phil Mickelson, just because of his history. It took him 14 years before he won a major and now he’s actually been very transparent more about his game and what he’s done. Um, and then obviously, uh, tiger, um as well, but um, yeah, those would be the two. And then, um, I would, I would, I’d have go, but Bo will go with me so he can teach me more. 1:04:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, Awesome. What’s a social media account that both of you guys follow? You don’t have to both follow the same account, but one from each of you. That, and again, doesn’t have to be anything related to golf or anything we talked about that you just find fascinating and think the audience would benefit from checking it out. 1:04:45 – Bo WatsonBo All right, I got to say two. It’s going to be Ed Milet and Dr Andrew Huberman. 1:04:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. 1:04:52 – Bo WatsonBoth favorites of the show here. 1:04:54 – Jeff PelizzaroOnly one has been on the podcast, but would love to get Huberman on one of these days. How about you, Shannon? 1:05:00 – Shannon ShuskeyYeah, well, definitely Andrew Huberman, for sure. Matter of fact, a lot of our studies came from his. You know that’s in our book, that came out of Stanford and basically some of the stuff like even like we talked about mental imagery, just the basics of mental imagery just kind of getting back onto that and getting at least 50 reps in, you know no longer than 20 seconds you know that came from studies out of Stanford and stuff like that. But definitely when it comes to that, yeah, I would say by Ed Matalette and Andrew Huberman. 1:05:40 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Last one, and Shannon, I’m still going to throw this at you, even though you said you’re not much of a golfer yourself what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given, shannon, you, I’ll have you go first trust it saved it and did that come from Bo? Yes, I’ve had a yes, how about you, bill? 1:06:10 – Bo WatsonYou know, I really believe the best golf advice and this is going to help everybody on here is surrender the shot before you play it, love it. Surrender your shot. So the outcome of the shot, surrender it. No matter what happens, good or bad, before you play it, man, you can just move forward much faster fantastic fellas I’d have to agree 100. 1:06:32 – Shannon ShuskeyThat’s one, one of the things this, this that we’ve seen, is like. If you, if you, see golf as a game of mistakes, it makes it easier to you, know, you know, to surrender the outcome before you even walk into your shot. 1:06:49 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, fellas, this has been fantastic. I’m really excited for the 18STRONG Crew to dig into your work. I know that you guys are on a mission to help 100,000 golfers shoot their lifetime low, so hopefully a lot of the 18STRONG Crew can be a part of those 100,000 golfers. Any last pieces that you want to share with us before we let you go, bo? 1:07:13 – Bo WatsonThe biggest thing I can say is, when you look at the game of golf, a lot of people say game of golf is 90% mental and 10% fiscal. But here’s the thing why is it that everybody is spending 100% of their time on 10% of the game? Now I understand different people like, say, beginners. It might be more like a 60-40 ratio, it could be 70-30. But the problem that I’ve seen over the last 40, 50 years is that so many people are going after technique, technique, technique, and then they feel like once they get to a point where their technique’s okay, then they start working on the mental game. It’s already too late. And I’ll just say this really quick there was a beginner golf study that they did that measured an approach shot, and what was so fascinating is that they found that with the three groups, one did physical and mental imagery, one did physical practice, the other one did something totally unrelated. What was fascinating was that the group that did physical and mental imagery outperformed the one that did physical, and the totally unrelated obviously didn’t even have any benefit whatsoever. But what that goes to prove is that if you put mental work on your game on the back burner, it’s going to hurt you like down the road, and so you gotta gotta get ahead of it, and that’s one of the big reasons why we wrote the book, and so people can actually see a breakthrough very quickly. 1:08:49 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about? 1:08:49 – Shannon Shuskeyyou, shannon? Yeah, so actually that’s a loaded question. I love it. It’s not what’s happening around you, it’s not what’s happening to you, it’s what’s happening on the inside of you. It’s how we respond to certain events. You know how we actually cause. You know your emotions can change your moods. You know your movement can change your emotions and stuff like that. And so I think that’s a huge game changer and to realize that it’s I like to say it like this it’s our response ability. It’s our ability to be able to respond to certain events that can take it, to take our life to a whole other level, not just our game, but knowing that it’s not what’s happening around you, it’s not what’s happening to you, it’s what’s happening on the inside of you and it’s how you respond to those things that actually change it. It’s not thoughts determine what you want, actions determine what you get, but it’s your behavior that can actually change it. It’s not thoughts determine what you want, actions determine what you get, but it’s your behavior that can change your future and it’s how we act, in that you know decisions determine your destiny, you know, and your focus can determine your future. 1:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s so good. I’ve never heard it put like that response, response ability. It’s just, it’s perfect. It’s perfect. All right, fellas, can’t thank you enough for the time and really look forward to, first of all, seeing you guys accomplish this goal of a hundred thousand golfers and beyond. Um and just. I’m excited to put this into my own practice, my own game, and shoot my lifetime low as well. So thank you for coming on to both of you guys. 1:10:25 – Bo WatsonAbsolutely. Thanks for having us, Jeff. 1:10:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Bobby Holland (Founder Hoolie Golf, Retired Navy Seal))Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 369Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us as we sit down with Bobby Holland, the retired Navy SEAL whose love for golf blossomed into the creation of Hoolie Golf, a golf apparel brand embodying hard work, grit, and resilience. Listen in as Bobby shares his remarkable transition from an elite military operative to a passionate golf entrepreneur. His story is not just about picking up the game later in life, but how the competitive drive and discipline learned from the SEALs fueled his determination to improve his swing, even leading to the construction of a driving range during a combat deployment. Bobby’s journey is a vivid illustration of never being too late to chase new dreams and how skills honed in one aspect of life can profoundly impact another. Our conversation with Bobby is a tapestry of tales from action movies sparking a young boy’s dream of becoming a SEAL, to the mental toughness and training insights necessary to endure the challenges of BUD/S. Bobby brings to light the crucial role of relentless optimism and breaking down massive goals into manageable steps, a philosophy that not only saw him through the rigors of military training but also serves as a foundation for his entrepreneurial spirit. His reflections on the nostalgia of 80s action films and the camaraderie found in both military units and sports teams paint a picture of the interconnectedness of his past passions and current pursuits. In our discussion, Bobby doesn’t shy away from the personal challenges he’s faced, such as rebuilding strength after an injury or embracing the intricacies of golf fitness. He takes us through his commitment to mobility, functional range of motion, and how these have influenced his performance both in the gym and on the golf course. Through Hoolie Golf, Bobby is not just offering apparel; he’s fostering a community for golf enthusiasts and those with a growth mindset. So tune in for a dose of inspiration, a glimpse into the synergy between entrepreneurship and golf, and perhaps even pick up a few recommendations for your next walk-up song or must-read book. Bobby Holland’s Background Bobby Holland is a retired Navy SEAL Chief Warrant Officer who retired from the military in 2021 after 21 years of service. He joined the Navy in 2000, graduated SEAL training in late 2001, and spent the next two decades in the SEAL teams, deploying nine times around the globe. Halfway through his career, Bobby was introduced to golf and has been a passionate golfer ever since. After finishing his military service, Bobby went to graduate school at UCLA’s Anderson School of Management and it was there that he found the inspiration for his next career. In the Spring of 2023, Bobby co-founded and launched Hoolie Golf, a golf apparel company that offers uniquely badass golf polos, and golf hats for diehard golfers. Bobby hopes that through Hoolie, he can share his journey with golf and inspire other active-duty military and veterans to connect with this great game. Main Topics (00:04) Navy SEAL Turned Golf Apparel Entrepreneur Retired Navy SEAL Bobby Holland’s passion for golf led to building a range during deployment, showcasing hard work, grit, and resilience. (07:39) Journey From SEAL to Golf Entrepreneur A former SEAL’s unexpected journey of integrating golf into military life, leading to the creation of Hoolie Giolf apparel company. (15:29) From Action Movies to Navy SEALs Childhood passions shape our future, from action movies to SEAL training, with a nod to 80s nostalgia and camaraderie in sports and military units. (23:27) Mental Toughness and Training Insights Relentless optimism and progressive training in Navy SEALs, addressing media portrayal and underwater tests with humor. (29:59) Hoolie Golf Hoolie Golf brand’s origins, ethos, and appeal to resilient, growth-minded individuals who use mental discipline techniques from Navy SEAL experience. (41:31) Improving Mobility and Fitness Progress Overcoming physical limitations, setting fitness goals, and utilizing social media for ongoing development. (46:19) Fitness and Business Resilience Incorporating new fitness routines, grit and resilience, and the future plans for a golf community. (52:07) Entrepreneurship and Golf for Veterans Entrepreneurship and military service, therapeutic benefits of golf for veterans, pop culture debate, personal insights, and book recommendations. Follow Bobby Holland Instagram: @hooliegolf Instagram: @leadbobholland Website: HoolieGolf.com Links Mentioned @DelusionallyConfident Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18 Strong Podcast, episode Number 369 with Bobby Holland from Hoolie Golf. What’s up, guys? Welcome back to the 18 Strong Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode we have Bobby Holland from Hoolie Golf. Bobby is a retired Navy SEAL that started a golf apparel company, so this episode we get to talk about all of his stories from overseas and his deployments, his training for buds and seals and how that has really impacted not only his golf game but also building a business in the world of golf. And we definitely dive into his addiction as a golfer so much of an addiction that he built his own driving range on one of his combat deployments, where he literally had to go out and shag golf balls in the moon dust to go pick up the range balls. So this episode is all about hard work, grit and resilience, which is what the Hoolie brand is all about and really what we’re all about here at 18 Strong. So you’re really going to enjoy this one with Bobby Holland. All partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. Go again 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, bobby Holland. Welcome to the 18 Strong podcast. Hi, jeff, thanks for having me. Absolutely, this is going to be awesome. I’ve been digging into the brand Hoolie a little bit, but rumor has it that you never really played golf until what it was 2011, and then took just one round and you were all in. 0:02:19 – Bobby HollandThere’s it, man. I think a lot why I created this brand was this kind of out of nowhere love that I found for the game. And there’s a lot of other people like me that you’re not all Hoolie’s pick up golf late, but there’s all folks like us, like me, that did pick it up late and fall in love, man, and it just triggered that. Being a seal, being an athlete, being a competitor and then finding this thing that you can’t do very well Kind of drove me nuts and got hooked and yeah, man, it’s been a fun journey and I mean so passionate about the game that I opened up my own golf apparel company, right. 0:03:00 – Jeff PelizzaroCrazy, that’s awesome. When I first saw, I saw a post about you when you were on Jaco’s podcast and I was like, oh my gosh, I got to get Bobby on the show because this is just. This is so cool to hear a guy that was in the seals, just like the rest of us. This game boggles our minds, completely right, and it’s so frustrating, it’s so hard and I could only imagine that you as an elite level operator coming into something. It’s just this little white ball sitting on a tee and all I got to do is hit it down there. That’s got to be easy, right. How frustrating was it coming into the game at that level, coming out from your background? 0:03:36 – Bobby HollandYeah, I mean you’re hitting the nail on the head. Two weeks back at the Pebble Beach Pro-Am I’m not sure if you caught the video of Tom Brady Duffin it off the tee, I mean that says it all You’re talking about arguably one of the best competitors of our generation picks up a golf club and having a hard time. And yeah, man, it’s one of those things that I still struggle with because I want to be so much better. Unfortunately, life and business and other things get in the way and I just do what I can. But I love the challenge. I mean, that’s really what drives me is, every time you show up to the golf course is a legit opportunity that you can have your best round, and it can happen like that. Both of my best rounds were exactly like that. Never saw them come in. It’s not like my swing was in super great shape, so there’s a little bit of that kind of gambler mentality. But the chase, the hunt, yeah, I love it, man. 0:04:38 – Jeff PelizzaroSo for those of the listeners that don’t know your story, don’t know the story behind Hoolie and everything, give us just a little background on you, obviously Navy Seals, but kind of tell us a little. I know you played football, so give us a little bit of that. And about some of the tours, how many tours you went on, and then we’ll dive into where Hoolie came from and go from there. 0:04:58 – Bobby HollandSure, I’m a California kid, born and raised up in a place called Fresno, Actually lived in Clovis that’s the same hometown as Bryce and DeChambeau, by the way but yeah, just kind of a wiry kid, you know. You’d like to mix it up a little bit. I played football and in wrestling. Those were my two big sports up until high school and then I was all in on football and that was just a big part of my upbringing as an athlete and it’s where I got into fitness in general. So I mean, we started strength training, powerlifting back there in high school and I’ve been doing that ever since, so kind of grew love for that as well. Well, anyways, I found myself at the end of high school the big so what that most of us face. What am I doing now? And I didn’t quite have it figured out, I went, Peter, around in a community college for a couple of years and it was in that time that I, you know, the idea of becoming a SEAL came to be and I basically devoted the next 18 months of two years to train to be a SEAL and that was like the first time I had, you know, set a goal really, and it was quite a lofty goal, had to teach myself how to run, swim, all those things. I ended up joining the Navy in January 2000 and went straight in, went to boot camp, went to A school, which is like your specialty rating, and then I went to Buds, which is the SEAL selection course, and then got through 9-11, hit and then I graduated SEAL qualification training two months later and then went to my first SEAL team and from there I just did a bunch of deployments, was pretty active. I did I think 9 deployments total. Not all of them were combat sandbox deployments, but did a bunch. Did 5 to Iraq, did a really really short one to Afghanistan, bounced around some other parts of the world, but had a really good career. Like you know, good timing. Some people may disagree but I came in the SEAL teams to do that job and you know, right after 9-11, we were busy last two decades, pretty damn busy. And yeah, we were talking before the show started. You know about picking up golf about 12, 13 years ago and kind of wasn’t meant to be. It was one of those things that I didn’t have an aversion to golf, I just didn’t get it. Yeah, you know what I mean. I mean that was it. I was cut from this cloth. I like hardcore music, I like punk rock, I like in the gym, I like doing things pushing myself. I just didn’t get it. And we had an opportunity. We were actually waiting to deploy. One of the guys suggested hey, let’s take the boys out. We had some time like our deployment got delayed, so we went out and I mean it literally happened in the course of I’m sure it was a god-awful long round of a five-hour round. I fell in love with golf. I hit a couple of shots out there and it was just perplexed Like you know why can’t I do this every time Went, got clubs and then it just metastasized from there, you know. So I was halfway into my career, being at SEAL, still operating, doing all the stuff. How do you make this work? But yeah, I traveled with my golf clubs everywhere, took them on some combat deployments. One deployment wasn’t in the combat zone but it was in the Middle East. We had this compound, this giant like moon dust compound, huge, open. Well, I ended up building myself a range there. So I got like a some plywood and I built a platform like in the middle of nowhere basically, and I brought 300 range balls with me that a golf course was nice enough to donate and I would just go. Anytime I had some off time I’d go hit in my range, you know. But yeah, so you know, fast forward. Some some years later did another decade or so in the teams and then found myself you know, my time in the teams. It just basically expired. I was at the end of my career, you know, around the 15 year mark. I transitioned from what we call an operator, which is someone who’s in a SEAL platoon being deployed to do SEAL missions. I got pulled from that and basically was in various managerial leadership positions, running training et cetera. So did that for the latter part of my career and then was trying to find something to do. Really, I mean, that’s that’s where I found myself. I knew it was my time to get out and I ended up going to business school. Ucla has a executive MBA program, so had some buddies who had gone through that and said really great things and I thought that would be a good kind of you know, runway out of the teams into real life. So went to that and or started that, I should say and near the start of that program I had the epiphany for what would become Hoolie, because it wasn’t exactly what it looks like now, but I had an idea and I brought it up. It was a concept that I brought up during a. Basically, they have an entrepreneurial pipeline, a series of classes that you take either you have to join a team or you have to build a team. So I said, to hell with it, man, let’s, let’s give it a go, see what I can do. So I had to recruit my team, had to pitch the idea to them, and then basically, we took it through a series of classes and kind of graduated from one class to the next, end up being our capstone. And then, by the end of it and I should back up, this is where I met my partner, Kevin Lee. He’s got a background in apparel, garment, sourcing operations, so perfect fit for where we are. But yeah, we, we basically built Hoolie in business school, you know, out of a shared passion for golf and in wanting to do cool things and and to create fun stuff, man. So, you know, fast forward another year. We launched last April. And here we are, man, some ten months later, you know, first year in business. Yeah, man, kind of ran through that pretty fast but uh. 0:12:06 – Jeff PelizzaroNo, there’s so many jumping off points that we’re gonna dive into. And you know most people they say like their golf addicted or they’re addicted to the game. But but you literally took your clubs on combat missions, you built it, you built your own personal driving range Overseas. You brought bucket, a bucket of balls. So like then I assumed you had to then go pick up, go shag those golf balls and bring them back and topple. 0:12:31 – Bobby HollandAmazing moon dust dude. So like I would be wearing these combat boots Because that stuff was like all over. Yeah, it was. I did not come back with 300 balls. 0:12:41 – Jeff PelizzaroI probably came back with, you know, 30 by the end of it now Did other guys like start to catch on with you and like, hey, bobby, can I go hit hit balls at your range? Or like, was it just you, you? 0:12:51 – Bobby Hollandknow it started that way. Well, when, when we first picked up golf, like a lot of us picked it up and it slowly, you know, they they kind of lost their interest, a lot of them. I continued that, but no, I was solo on that deployment. I was in a a staff position essentially, so I was. I was in staff hell some of the time. I would basically get out of the joint operation center and just to clear my mind and and, and, just you know, tried to stay in touch with golf because, you know, when I picked up golf, I ended up doing another Five deployments. These deployments can range in time. Some are pretty short. Yeah, I did a couple that were two or three months, but I did some that were seven months. So it’s a long, long ways to, or long, long time to be away from the game, especially when you’re trying to pick it up and you’re trying to build that momentum and all that like. So, yeah, I had a decade worth of like, making progress, making progress and then losing all that and then starting Rebuilding and it wasn’t until I had some stability in my job Around 2017 that I was actually able to to practice and to play pretty regularly and, and and. Then I mean shocker. I got like a lot better yeah. 0:14:15 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah. I want to go back a little bit to to when you Were kind of transitioning and decided to go into the seals. Is that something, what made you even Decide to pick that path? And when you do like, do you decide then like, as you’re going in, like I’m shooting for the seals, or is it once, once you get through like the initial initial boot camp, that you then decide to go that direction? 0:14:39 – Bobby HollandYeah, I think it’s true. I mean it’s basically true today, as it was back then. But essentially my path was well, there’s one slight difference. My path was directly to the teams or to seal selection training buds. I had a ticket that was written in my contract. I did have to go to a, a you know school to. Basically, back then they used to give you a regular and I don’t mean this like in a bad way a regular Navy job, like there’s plenty of Navy jobs out there. Back in the day you had to have a Navy job in case that you don’t make it through seal training, you’d have something to fall back on. That has since changed. So now people can go basically to boot camp and then go straight to selection training. But yeah, for me, you know I Was raised on action movies, you know I it sounds silly as hell. You know a lot of people have this epiphany that, of course, like these, you know, wanting to serve, wanting to be on an, on the lead team. But I’m just, you know, a fan of action movies and just intrigued by the military in general. And you know I started looking into that. You know, obviously the military isn’t Isn’t 80s action movies, but nonetheless, you know that that took me down the path to start checking it out and looking into it, and the more I looked into it I was just really intrigued by it, you know. So back then, post Vietnam, there had been a couple conflicts, but it was just kind of clandestine missions and and working with, you know, in elite group of highly trained individuals, you know, being on that type of team, especially playing team sports, was very attractive to me. And again, I’m a young man in my early 20s, like what else am I doing? I Didn’t have some other path that I was like weighing my options. I’m sure I would have figured something out, but it seemed intriguing, seemed exciting. I was looking for a little bit of action man. 0:16:52 – Jeff PelizzaroSo there we go, yeah complete side note, but have you watched the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on Netflix by chance? Yeah, that, the second portion, when they go back to all the 80s action movies, it like just brings back such a good feeling of you know, just watching him. And Sylvester Stallone is like the movie Predator and you know Cobra and all those movies. So when you said that it just brought flashbacks of that, it made me feel so good to watch. Those dude brought me back to the childhood Dude that. 0:17:20 – Bobby HollandThat’s it, man. I mean, you know they used to say he view will rot your brain. Well, I mean, if this may be a case where rot in my brain, but hopefully in a good way, where I was a productive member of society, in the military, you know awesome. 0:17:35 – Jeff PelizzaroSo Then, when you are getting ready to go to the seals, you said you trained for 18 months or beyond. How did you even know what to train for, how to train? I know these days I think there’s actually like training programs built for you know if you want to be a seal, but I’m assuming back then there probably weren’t no, it was still at the early I say the early stages of the internet. 0:17:57 – Bobby HollandBut, like my awareness of the internet, I guess it started, you know, 80s or early 90s, but People weren’t really using that like they do today until the early 2000s, you know late 90s. So late 90s is when I was starting to train and, no, there wasn’t a whole lot of information out there. So there were a couple books. I picked up a couple books and that was kind of it, you know. So I had an understanding they had published what the requirements were for buds training. So it’s like you know what the run times are, you know what the swim times are, you know what the pull-ups are, you know what the test gates are. To a certain degree, you know that there’s a 50 meter underwater swim, you know that there’s a drown proofing evolution. So it’s like, okay, I will just go do those things in abundance until I feel super, super confident about it. And so when I was saying before, this was my first time, you know, making a goal and achieving it, this was also my first time building a fitness plan, you know, because to this point I had done what was prescribed to me during training. You know football, wrestling, what you know, right, Whatever that is but being able to figure this out. So I ended up doing, you know, I we were running close to 30 miles a week and we built up to it. So we started doing three miles at a time, three became four and then we were doing six miles a day, doing a lot of overtraining too as well, but I was also doing a lot of calisthenics, so a lot of push-ups, a lot of pull-ups, a lot of body weight stuff and then a lot of water stuff. You know we were doing just swimming, just god-awful swimming. One of the strokes that that they mandate for seal training is called the side stroke or the combat side stroke, and it’s, it’s super boring. Had to learn that and I would swim for two miles in a you know 50 meter pool, which, oh, it’s awful. 0:19:56 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s, what is that, sir like? Can you describe that stroke to us? 0:19:59 – Bobby HollandYeah, it’s uh. I mean, you know, basically you’re on your side and so what you’re doing is you’re Basically gliding through the water. It’s it’s meant for to be able to swim someone out, Like a bloody, like if there’s a. You’re trying to swim out of a combat situation. You can, you can tow your buddy and basically swim one-handed, but essentially you’re you’re kind of swimming on your side and you’re just reaching, gliding through and basically trying to do it. You know, in a way, that your, your head is just barely Coming up, your mouth is just basically barely surfacing above the water, because the more that your head’s upright, the more drag that you’re creating. So you know you’re trying to glide through there. It’s a very effective stroke. I mean, I I Don’t swim that often but I could go, do you know I I could go crank out a long swim right now, just because that is a pretty efficient stroke that you can just do for a long time. But yeah, I had to teach myself that. And then, you know, had to get into all the other stuff the breath holding stuff, the, the underwater swims, the not tying, all those things and really there wasn’t a whole. I mean, if there was YouTube this would have been so much easier, because it’s like now on YouTube there’s all this stuff about breath holding techniques. You know how to get that heart rate down. You could just watch free divers, watch what they do. Yeah, this guy’s got it made. They got all the information. But yeah, you know was one of those things that I Didn’t do it perfect, but I did a lot of what I did and I was in damn good shape and I was very, very much prepared for for buzz training. So mission accomplished there. 0:21:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So let me ask you this obviously, with YouTube, we can watch and learn anything on YouTube. Now, right, and there’s so much more information. Guys and girls can go and learn a lot more about what, what the techniques are. But then and I heard this on when you’re on Jaco’s podcast and talking about like, you can have all the information, you can have all the techniques. But going into buds is different. Like being able to get through buds, I guess it requires way more than just knowing techniques and stuff. So what would you say is the differentiator between the guys that make it through and the guys that don’t make it through? 0:22:28 – Bobby HollandYeah, it’s, it’s interesting. It’s not fitness level, I mean, it’s all. It’s all in between the years and it is. It’s a Grid and resilience. That’s what it is, you don’t know. There’s tall, skinny guys, there’s short, fat guys, there’s everything in between. There’s these stilly-eyed beast You’re like that that dudes for sure gonna make it through and equates day one one. So like you can’t tell just by looking at someone and really and you can’t tell by talking to someone, because I’ve also been on the instructor side you have to put them through this crucible and you know you have guys who had some troubled childhoods and then you have guys who are elite athletes and everything in between. But I think all bring a certain amount of grit and resilience that Is baked into them. Either they were born with it or they developed it, you know, prior to coming to the teams. But yeah, that’s it, man. I mean, if you can imagine Having the worst day of your life, every single day, I mean that that is what, that is what gets people, because that’s what buds is. You were having the worst day your life and it’s even worse than the day was yesterday, and At the end of the day you get to go back to your, your barracks. You get to eat, you know dinner, and hang out for a little bit at least early on training, before you’re doing other tactical type stuff, and Then you just sit there in your bed thinking like I’m gonna have the worst day of my life tomorrow, you know, oh, my god, yeah, and that lasts for six, seven months of that. So I mean it’s kind of that mental torture of and you know, please don’t don’t focus on the word torture there. Buzz training is not tortured, but there is that mental component which is torturous, I should say of like man, how am I gonna get through this program? And the old adage how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time? And that’s it, these things. And one thing I hope that I get to do more of is talk about mindset. I think that’s one thing that we can contribute. We’re not the only ones who share this mindset, but that’s it, man. I mean it’s been able to have this relentless optimism that I’m going to get through whatever comes next. I just know I am, I know it’s going to suck, I know it’s going to hurt. I’m going to try to find a way to make it fun or do whatever I got to do to get through it. Some people can’t do that, these people who are over-programmed they’re excellent runners, excellent swimmers, elite athletes coming into the program. They’ve never been pushed that far and they can’t get through that mental component of being able to reconcile like, oh my God, I’m having the worst day of my life and it’s just going to keep going like this. Not only the worst day of your life, but it gets progressively harder in terms of the things that you’re tasked to do. You’re constantly having to do more and more and more. Aside from the mindset part of it, going through seal training and career in the seal teams also taught me how to take on goals and other things In a similar manner of you can’t run a marathon overnight. It’s not like I can just turn that on and all right, I’m going to run a marathon tomorrow. No, but you know what you can train today. There’s a methodical way to train to develop the strength, the endurance, the confidence and to get yourself there. That’s essentially what seal training is is. I mean, we start people would laugh man like for where we end up and we’re talking like tactical training, where we’re busting into rooms and firing off rounds within close proximity inches of each other, highly, extremely dangerous and making life and death decisions. All in a split second. We get there from training I mean this really progressive training pipeline to where you take off these little bites of the elephant and then one day you end up there and you look back and it’s like man, how did I get here? 0:27:11 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s unbelievable. I mean just hearing some of the stories that you guys talked about on the podcast that I listened to and, obviously, just watching different theatrical portrayments of what you guys do, and just to think about the training that you go through. Now, refresh my memory, were you in the documentary that they did? Did I hear you guys talking about that? So for those of you that haven’t seen anything about Bud’s training, there are videos and documentaries that you can go watch, and I heard that you were even kind of like a mis-portrait in one of the scenes. Is that right? 0:27:50 – Bobby HollandYeah, I definitely was and I make sure that every opportunity I can to clear my good name because I was very proud of in second phase. Second phase is the water competency phase and I believe it was two months back then. But there’s a series of grueling underwater challenges that you basically do where you’re threatening yourself to drown underwater. I mean, that’s basically just it. You’re doing things that are beyond your ability to without error. How long can you survive underwater, given this challenge here? So I was very proud that all those I think there were seven different tests that we did I passed all those the first time. So I was the first time. Every time guy. But yeah, you know it is what it is. They got someone else failing in evolution, but it’s all. Just man, I really don’t care. I think it’s funny, but I do give that guy shit every time I see him. That’s awesome. 0:28:58 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in a gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18 strong to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18 strong. So let’s talk about the name Hoolie and your role, and I mean I only know a little bit. So, from what I understand, you were a breacher, and that’s kind of where the name Hoolie came from, right. 0:30:13 – Bobby HollandYeah, that’s it. So you know, I’m getting ready to start business school and I had this epiphany. It actually started out as a golf bag, so it was this idea for a golf bag. Within that, basically, I had the idea. I spent a whole weekend ideating and drawing on it but within that like five hour period I had come up with the name already a variation of the name, but I like the way that Hoolie sounded and, yes, like to backup, Hoolie is. It’s a tool that we use. I was a breacher. It was my job to basically gain access into enemy compounds. So using explosives, torches, mechanical tools, manual tools, Hoolie tools, basically this giant pry bar thing. Firemen use a halogen tool, Hoolie tools kind of a bastardized version of that, but it’s just normally looking crowbar thing and you know backing up before we even get to. You know the symbolism of that. It was just the name. I was like man, it just sounds kind of cool. I wanted something that connected my prior background and then something that you know connected to golf and I didn’t imagine that there would be any connection there, but I liked how it sounded. You know, and in terms of the symbolism, it’s this tool that we’re using to break open doors, to break through something being disruptive. You know I like that. And then I ended up researching the word and, lo and behold, Hoolie is an obscure Scottish golf term that means blown a strong wind. So and I got to go to Scotland last spring and I was really nervous because you read things on the internet but I was able to confirm. I was like like hey, what does Hoolie mean to you? And sure enough, man, that’s, that’s a phrase that they use in the old country and that’s the symbolism. Is just it married? I thought it was perfect and that’s how Hoolie was born. 0:32:24 – Jeff PelizzaroSo earlier you mentioned you know we were talking about getting through buds and you mentioned that getting through buds it’s grit, resilience, and that’s something that I wrote down from your website specifically is like the Hoolie golfer. It’s something that believes that hard work, grit and resilience will conquer all. So give us a little bit more about you know. Who is the Hoolie golfer? What, what is that ethos, what’s that mantra and who? Who is it? 0:32:49 – Bobby HollandYeah, so we are a golf brand for hardcore golfers, ok, you know, maybe folks that don’t fit into the cookie cutter mold of what you know a traditional golfer is, you know, although golf has changed a lot last couple of years so you have a lot of other different types of personalities out there. But, you know, I mean really Hoolie is for minibaction, growth minded folks who are competitive about life, who like to get after it off the course as much as they do on the course, you know. So, basically, guys, you know, I don’t, I don’t see like myself in that, like, ok, how many Navy SEAL golfers are there? But there’s a lot of guys like me out there, you know, whether they’re gym rats, athletes, former athletes, hunters, fighters, surfers, these guys who are passionate about, you know, conquering life and they’re equally passionate about conquering golf. So it’s people who are essentially in the hunt, trying to find the best versions of themselves, trying to try to find that on the golf course and trying to find that off the golf course. And you know, one of the things that I love about golf, which is it’s sneaky, like you know, backing up to our earlier conversation, I didn’t get golf, you know, 20, 30 years ago. But when I got it it’s like, oh man, there’s so many parallels to all the things that I was doing, you know, as a SEAL in terms of being able to master your mind, your body, the environment, your strategy involved. Let’s talk about the golf swing. You know the intricacies there of the golf swing. You know kinematic sequence and all these fun things. But, yeah, man, that’s, you know, that’s really the spirit of the brand, and I also want to caution anytime I’m talking about who these now is. We have truly customers who are, you know, every walk of life. So I think it’s more of a shared mindset than it is a particular background. Yeah, people who have a certain spirit and, you know, just like to get after it, I guess. 0:35:08 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s what really drew me to you guys is, first, just the idea and the mindset of you know this is about more than just lowering your handicap or you know, like, how far you can hit a ball although watching some of your videos looks like you can hit a ball quite far Never know. But you know it’s about the mentality of going out, having a great time with your buddies, telling to your best you want to be the best at whatever you do physically, mentally. I’m curious just from the mental side of things, because golf is such a mental game and we kind of can make ourselves crazy about it. But obviously you guys are known for your performance under pressure. What are there any techniques that you could relay to us that you go through when you’re out on the course and maybe something’s a little frustrating you hit a bad shot and you’re trying to get yourself focused and back in the game. 0:36:03 – Bobby HollandYeah, I think box breathing is huge. So being able to, you know, reduce your sympathetic response, and that literally just means getting your heart rate down. You know one thing I love all these fitness tracker tools and so you know I have a fitness watch and that’s a great indicator I could look down and I know what my resting heart rate is, I know what my, like, active heart rate is and you know, being able to breathe, being able to get that heart rate down and control that kind of at will is extremely helpful. Because, look man, this may surprise people, but I get nervous on the golf course, like when I’m on the first tee. You bet your ass I’m nervous. I got the little barflies. I don’t want to. You know, I’m just as likely to shank a ball as anyone, you know, as the next guy out there. It happens. So being able to do that, that’s key. I mean, breathing is really, really important there. The other thing, from a mindset perspective, is just trying to approach it like like I don’t care what happens, I don’t care about the outcome, and that was something that I used, I mean, in, you know, being a seal all the time, right, so like we do things to where obviously, the more you do like like jumping out of an airplane, the more, the more you do that, the more you get comfortable with that. But yeah, especially when you’re new to that, the thought of jumping out of an airplane can be quite a nerve in, right. Yeah, but finding these little kind of mental tools that you can dig into for, you know, a variety of things whether you’re on the golf course or off the golf course, are useful. That’s. That’s kind of one of the things that you know. Just trying to take the, you know, the result. Try to take don’t worry about the result because you can’t control the result. Control your controlables and whatever is going to happen is going to happen out there, right, and you know, I think having a positive mindset and not focusing about the negative outcomes would help out a lot of people and any major swing issues that folks have, such as myself. 0:38:24 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat about the physical side? Obviously you’re still very fit and that’s a big part of your life, I’m assuming. I would also imagine you’ve got some, some issues being banged up and injuries that you’ve, you know, gotten over the years, whether that be in football or combat or whatever it is. How big of a role does that still play in your everyday life and and for your golf? 0:38:48 – Bobby HollandIt’s huge, yeah, and I, you know, I’m starting to evolve how I train and a lot of that is a product of a. I think I’d mentioned to you I went through a program this last month to address some of those injuries and things that I’ve accumulated over two decades of not only being a seal which is a pretty damn hard job, especially carrying heavy loads, jumping out planes, injured landings, you know, running, gunning, falling down, whatever, but being an athlete for that long Fitness has been. I fell in love with fitness, you know, back in when I started sports and it just never stopped. So, absent my love for golf, I would still be doing that and it has proven to me time and time again to be extremely, you know, beneficial to you know, I mean just your mental state of mind and avoiding illness, injury, et cetera, but so extremely important. I am having to evolve how I do things. But yeah, man, you know, in terms of how, how I think it benefits golf, I’m really excited about the program I’m starting right now, to be honest with you, because the last couple of years I’ve been training in a very linear way fitness, like basically doing straight up power lifting moves, squat, you know, pressing pulls basic stuff squat bench you know, very linear and I have been throwing in a little bit of golf things here or there, but you know, nonetheless, I think having having a natural ability to summon power right through power lifting, I think it’s helpful in all things and of course it is helpful in the golf swing if you know how to harness it. But you can look at some of the golfers out there who are skinny little beans, who do it a much different way. So you know it’s more important to have the right technique and and to have the right mobility and flexibility, and that that’s an area where I’m just starting with this new program. So, to back up, I’ve dealt with a whole host of injuries and I won’t spend much time talking about them because I could go on and on. But you know my shoulders are jacked. You know my knees I’ve had multiple knee surgeries. My back looks like an S, like my spine, you know. So, despite all this stuff, fitness has allowed me to be extremely active and to keep pain at bay. Right, and I really attribute that because I’ve had periods like man, circa 2022, I couldn’t lift anything overhead. I could not lift a bar overhead. I could not bench press, which has been like my favorite exercise since, since youth, but I was able to build up all last year. I was. I really wanted to just fight through it. I was doing physical therapy, but I was determined to build strength. I ended up putting on some weight, so I’m a little bit heavier. When you say I’m, I’m a fit guy Thank you for the compliment. I’m relatively fit. I got some work to do. I got some goals. I’m on a good track now to get better, but mission accomplished last year. My strength like went like really you know really well, and I got through you know that issue I was having there. I went from like 20% to like 90% with shoulders, same with with me. So I’m in a good spot. But what I’m really excited to be doing now, and where my fitness is evolving, is I’m doing a lot of rotational stuff, mobility stuff and trying to get more function, range, emotion out of my hips, out of my shoulders. So I’m really excited. My golf swing I golfed this morning. It’s kind of a mess because a lot of this work I did through this. The Warrior Fitness program is a month long program that I just went through. It’s a ran by the or sponsored by the Navy Seal Foundation, run by a group called Virginia High Performance. It’s an outstanding program for spec war veterans but basically it’s a holistic approach to diet, nutrition, mental health. It’s like full optimization there, went through that, was able to regain some mobility and function through that program and I’m going to keep working on that. I’m really excited Now, now that I’m able to rotate more and do some other things. I’ve got to figure out how how my new swing is going to work, you know. 0:43:45 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s interesting. So you actually have seen so much improvement in some of your mobility that you’re noticing that, hey, my golf swing is almost a little loosey-goosey now. 0:43:54 – Bobby HollandYeah, yeah, yeah, it’s a little bit. I have some things I’m trying to work out on my swing, but I’ve got some improvement with my hips and my kind of pelvic rotation. There and my right shoulder we made a lot of ground. It was, you know, again like I’ve been moving very linear, but you put, you know, certain parts of my body in awkward positions and I lack mobility. So I think some of the swing faults that I have right now are really really because of some of these deficiencies that I have. I’m unable to rotate in such a way that I have to compensate with my arms or whatever. So, tbd, man, we’ll see how it goes. Hopefully it’s not a train wreck for too long. But you know, I look forward to starting that out. But, man, I just feel better. You know, you kind of don’t know, especially as you age, sometimes the decline or the lack of mobility, it just kind of slowly tapers off. And it wasn’t until, you know, we’ve been doing a lot of back and core work, manual therapy, cairo type stuff, and then mobility exercises, and it wasn’t until I did about two weeks of that that I’m moving around. What the? It feels good. You know, it’s not like I was walking around like the hunchback and Notre Dame. You know I didn’t feel that bad, but I didn’t know what good felt like either. 0:45:20 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, that’s interesting. So you and I talked a couple of days ago and we were talking about the Rotex motion stuff. Were you introduced to them through Virginia High Performance or was that? Did you meet Dr Joe separate? 0:45:34 – Bobby HollandI met Dr Joe separate, yeah. Yeah, one of the cool things I’ve been surprised by social media and one of the pleasant surprises has been I’ve been connected with some really, really neat people and people that just reached out, that found the brand and you know much like you did. And Joe was the same. You know he’s. He’s a old retired frogman so and we actually served in the same SEAL team not the same time, different times, but great guy, he reached out and fully support what he’s doing. He’s doing some really neat stuff there. I just started the Rotex program, really excited for that, to augment the program that I’m already working on. But, yeah, go check them out at, you know, rotexmotioncom Great products there. 0:46:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, so, and we love, we love Dr Joe and the Rotex. I’ve got one sitting right outside the door here was just using it with the client this morning. So just give us a little idea. How are you using it? What, what are you guys working on, or what did he kind of go through with you a little bit? 0:46:30 – Bobby HollandYou know, I’m just using their app, so you go through their app and they have. So what I’m working on? The there’s a shoulder mobility set of exercises there, and then also I don’t remember what the other one is called, but you know, basically the rotational stuff, the kind of hips, pelvic type stuff, so that that is the kind of floor, floor based stuff or the floor models and the. Yeah, there’s just some great exercise man, like I love the handheld one. There’s some really cool stretches being able to, you know, internal rotation, I guess it is. 0:47:14 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, yeah, getting getting an external rotation where you kind of like kind of going in up on the wall like that. 0:47:19 – Bobby HollandYeah, there’s some there’s some really good ones there. So the program that that I I got out of the Warrior Fitness program has some other stuff in there, you know, non-rotex type stuff, and I think it’s really good compliment. And again, man, I just just started this program but I’m, I’m like, really excited. You know, I have a garage gym which I’ve carefully, you know, built over the last 12, 13 years I guess. So I have everything that I need here. But I’ve been working out with a new, renewed sense of purpose and energy of you know, doing doing something fun and new, and it just feels good, man, I can feel that I’m activating things that had been neglected for too long. And yeah, you know, it’s like I’m really strong at squats and bench and pressing. But these other things, you know, I think for longevity and just for all around fitness and mobility are pretty damn important and there’s huge crossover. So, aside from, obviously, the benefits I get from my daily life, I’m now doing things that I know are going to have an impact the rotational stuff, the core stuff. Yeah, pretty psyched on it. 0:48:32 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and to be able to do it for that’s the coolest thing about golf to do it for decades. Right Like this. This is a. This is a long gameplay. 0:48:41 – Bobby HollandWell, there’s no doubt in my mind, like my best golf is is ahead of me, and I’ve there’s plenty of. You know, guys, that I’ve seen staying plenty fit into their fifties. So, and, and you know, look at Phil Mickelsand he’s been able to keep up speed. So you know, if you can keep up strength speed, you can play. You know, I’m not going to play at an elite level, but I can play with enough swing speed to play the type of golf that I enjoy playing, and fitness is the path to get there. 0:49:11 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. So what’s on the horizon for Hoolie as you’re moving, you know we’re getting into 2024 and moving forward. I mean, it sounds like things are cranking and you’re you’re busy, as can be. So what’s? What’s going on over there? 0:49:23 – Bobby HollandYeah, you know we are cranking man, but we are still a first year business. We’re still relatively new, um, you know we’re not a known entity nationally yet. So the goal is to just get the message out and, uh, get more people to fall in love with us. And you know our goal, aside from selling stuff, is to create this community of like-minded you know, golf obsessed, gross minded folks out there. I’d like to get after it and you know we’re looking to get the message out there more. You know doing, doing, uh, shows like yourself, um, continue to push the brand out there, um, get more traction where we can. And to continue to grow and to, you know, expand our, our product lines. Um, that’s it, man. You know just kind of doing what we’re doing, more of it. And again, like just very optimistic because you know we’ve reached a lot of people, um, a lot more than I thought we would in the first year, but we’re just getting started here. So, like so much room to go. And, um, we have a new spring line that comes out here in a couple of weeks, excited to launch that. We got some really, really neat designs. I’m wearing one of them right now. Um, so really cool there and it’s a. You know, that’s one thing that I’m very passionate about is creating stuff. So, uh, we have a great designer, um, kevin give a quick shout out to to Kevin there who helps us out. Um, but you know, we we also I have a creative interest in in what we do and what we make, and so being able to think of these new things and and watch people fall in love with like it’s just a really neat thing to do, um kind of scratches my creative ish as well. Uh, so we got some fun stuff to launch here and I think people are going to love it and we’ll just see where it goes. Man, yeah. 0:51:17 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat would you say is something that you’ve taken from your your time as a CEO and just all of your training that has really helped you from the business aspect of things. 0:51:25 – Bobby HollandI think what we were talking about earlier, that grit and resilience, is key. There’s a lot of parallels to my career as a special operator, to what I’m doing now. If you look at, I’m in a ambiguous environment, you know. Maybe Don’s are stacked against me. Um, you know, over task, under resourced. That’s what every startup, uh, you know, experiencing the same thing. Right, how do we figure out this problem? How do we get better from our mistakes? How do we develop capacity to do more? Um, I mean, they’re all parallels. It’s the same thing, it’s a different environment, it’s a different application. That’s part of why I fell in love with this whole thing. I I didn’t see myself as being an entrepreneur, but I had this idea and I had this kind of creative itch. I started scratching that and then then I started recognizing like, oh man, this isn’t really that much different, you know. So, for, for the veterans listening out there, you know, I I think you’ll get a lot of entrepreneurship. It’s not easy, it’s very challenging, it’s very rewarding. Um, and then backing up, talking about the grit, resilience aspect of it is not every day is easy. You know it’s. Uh, there’s ups and downs. You know when, if you’re a new business, new business. You are going to make mistakes, things are going to happen. You’re going to have to overcome If. If you can’t get through that, you just won’t survive. So, yeah, it’s all about overcoming those mistakes, getting better, improving and then, you know, just kind of head down, chin up, get after it. 0:53:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYou mentioned. You know, speaking to the veterans, I know you guys do a lot of work, or you personally do a lot of work with veterans with golf, and there’s a crossover there that and I’ve seen this with several different organizations that are utilizing golf to help veterans, whether they be wounded vets or just, you know, re-acclimating into society. What have you seen? What kind of positive benefits have you seen from golf that has really helped that population. 0:53:31 – Bobby HollandYeah, you know, and this is an area where I would continue to love to do more. I mean, like I’m very passionate about golf and very passionate about the veteran community. I think, you know, one of the things that I hope to do out of all this is to get more veterans into golf. You know, whether they’re, you know, veterans who moved on from service, who are looking for something to engage with, or they’re you know the wounded veteran population, there’s so much to get from the game. I think one thing that veterans struggle with in general is finding purpose after service right, and purpose comes in many different forms, obviously in the form of a career, having some sort of purpose that you can connect. You know that’s. You serve your country and you do so for however many years you serve, and then you leave that some struggle with. You know what’s next. How do I replace that feeling that I had of service of purpose? And though I don’t have that answer in terms of career-wise, everyone’s different there I think golf serves this little niche here. You know, I’m not saying golf is a purpose, but it’s like a micro-purpose. You know what I mean. 0:54:54 – Jeff PelizzaroLike it’s a reason. 0:54:55 – Bobby Hollandit’s something that gets you excited to get out of bed. It’s something that gets you excited to go outdoors, to go hang out with your buddies, to have this very difficult goal that you want to work towards, that you can improve, and that it’s just it’s going to be there for the rest of your life. I didn’t golf with these two gentlemen this morning, but I often get paired with these older gentlemen that are in their 80s and 90s, you know. So there’s this just love and spear for the game that I think veterans, you know more than others, would really benefit from. And aside from that, I think the therapeutic benefits of just being outdoors I think I golf early in the morning, so that’s a whole different experience. Like this morning we saw coyotes, you know. We saw deer, it’s beautiful. We saw the sunrise. Like it’s calming. I know saying calming and golf in the same phrase and get people riled up, but I mean for me it’s a. I never really thought about it, you know, over the years I was doing it until now, but it’s kind of like therapy out there, especially if you’re out there, you’re playing, walking on a course, you know, just squeezing it in out there. It’s good man. So, yeah, I would love to connect veterans to golf. Hopefully we can do that in the process and, as we grow the company definitely look forward to partnering with more of the folks that are, you know, doing that as well. 0:56:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. I just think that that’s such a neat objective and you see so many different organizations that are doing it and I’ve seen a couple of things that you guys have done and alluded to and, yeah, it’s just such a such an incredible game. There’s so many benefits. Like you said, it’s out in nature, You’re. You’re kind of fulfilling your competitive spirit, all these different pieces, and you’re constantly challenging yourself, you know, trying to get better. So that’s really cool. All right, my man, we’re going to close up with just a few of our traditional questions that we have here on the 18 strong podcast. Very curious to hear your answers. What’s in foremost? Caddy shack or happy Gilmore? 0:57:15 – Bobby HollandHey, both classics, but happy Gilmore. Oh, all right, All right, I was kind of expecting you to go the other way, tristan all right, what’s like, like, like if there was split with you know what percentage of people vote which way. 0:57:31 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m going to say it’s been. I don’t have an official tally. I would say it’s been mostly more caddy shack than happy Gilmore. I find that a lot of our guests who come from overseas across the pond are more happy Gilmore than a lot of the Americans and I typically find that if if anybody’s around my age and beyond, they’re usually usually cat caddy shack. So I’m 45. So it can be shot. But happy Gilmore, I love both of them. Love both of them All. Right, this one. I’m very curious to hear your answer. What would your walk up song be to the first T box? 0:58:09 – Bobby HollandDomination Pantera, not even a question. 0:58:11 – Jeff PelizzaroOh man, going hard, I like it. I like it. Is there a book that you like to recommend to people, or a book that has really meant something to you, that you’ve read or read multiple times and have even given as a gift? 0:58:23 – Bobby HollandAbsolutely it is. It’s called endurance and I think it’s a I’m not sure if there’s like a a different part shackled in is incredible voyage. I mean the book is endurance. It is my favorite book and I can’t believe they haven’t made a proper movie out of it. I think it’s the best, one of the best survival tales ever told. So those themes we were talking about, about grit, resides. It follows the 1915, shackleton expedition to Antarctica and I went to spoil it for your viewers, but some stuff goes down. It’s a tale of survival. It’s amazing. I love it. I mean there’s, there’s a you know some stuff about leadership, teamwork, grit, resilience. So good, go read it. 0:59:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, awesome. All right, if you could pick a celebrity for some and by celebrity that’s a loose term, could be anybody past present could be dead alive. Who are you picking for your for some? 0:59:25 – Bobby HollandAll right, man, I’m a child of the eighties, right? So Arnie Sly Corussell. 0:59:34 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. I mean straight action movies, yep, awesome. All right, exclude well, I won’t. I normally say excluding Augustine and St Andrews, but you’re welcome to pick one of those. But I’ll ask you for a second one. But if we had the 18 strong jet fueled up, ready to go and I said, bobby, we’re going anywhere you want, we’re taking your celebrity for some and you get to play any course in the world, where are you going? 1:00:02 – Bobby HollandWell, you took my number one. It’s Augustine National man. That’s it. Number two would be Piners. Number two Awesome, I’ve been very fortunate. This last spring I got to play the old course, st Andrews. 1:00:16 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you really I? 1:00:17 – Bobby Hollanddid yeah and would you shoot? I didn’t shoot very well. I think I shot like a. I think it was an 89. But I had a strong finish at 17 and 18. His darkness set in. Yeah, that’s good. 1:00:34 – Jeff PelizzaroI love it. Setting the scene I love it. Okay, what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? 1:00:42 – Bobby HollandThis is a Bob Rattella quote. So damn, I don’t even remember what book it is, but it is love the challenge of the day, whatever it may bring. I think that’s very, very sound advice, that if you’re going to be a golfer, you need to embrace that, because if you’re spinning out of control every bad shot, every bad round, I mean why would you spend so much time being miserable? Right, it doesn’t help. 1:01:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYep Doesn’t help at all. Okay, is there a social media account that you like to follow that you think the 18 strong crew should check out? Could be golf related, could be anything. 1:01:23 – Bobby HollandYeah, I’m going to give you some random stuff, all right. So on YouTube, go check out. I know you’re going to like this, jeff Space Ice, and I expect you to text me back later because after five hours of binging that you’ll be like dude, so good. The other is there was a former Navy SEAL, was it John Allen? His handle is Mr Ballin and he does spooky, weird stories on YouTube. Really really good, mr Ballin, b-a-l-l-e-n. Really good. And I’ll give a shout out to my guy, the DoD King Carter. He got bounced off of his CBA golf handle from Meta for some reason. But he is that delusional confident. He got bounced off of that. Really he did. Yeah, Not sure why, but they booted his account, they shut him down. So go check out. 1:02:28 – Jeff PelizzaroNo way that’s delusional, confident Yep. Unreal. So, just for background, that’s exactly how I found out about Bobby and Hoolie Golf is because when Bobby was on the Jocko podcast you guys talked about, I think, Jocko brought up the DoD King and then I followed him for a little bit and I saw that online. So that’s crazy that that got booted. Okay, well, we’ll definitely put that in the show notes and give him a link there. For sure, bobby, this has been awesome. I can’t thank you enough for coming on the show. I’m really excited to see what’s to come with Hoolie in the next year, two years and beyond, but I love everything that you’re doing. Obviously, thank you so much for your service, first and foremost, you and everybody that you served with. But taking that into the golf world, I just think it’s such a cool crossover and it speaks so much to the 18 Strong crew and the mindset that we have here just about self-improvement and working hard, the grit, the resilience that you speak so, so greatly about. So really really appreciate your time coming on. Yeah, jeff thanks for having me on, man, thanks for listening to the 18 Strong podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Dr. Jason Selk (Peak Performance Coach, Sports Psychologist, Best Selling Author)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 367Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Have you ever caught yourself stuck on the hamster wheel of negative thinking when facing a challenge? Dr. Jason Selk (Full Bio Below), a master of sports psychology and performance coaching, joins us to turn that wheel in a new direction with his game-changing concept: Relentless Solution Focus (RSF). Together, we unpack the transformative power of pivoting from problem-centric to solution-based thinking — a skill that not only enhances mental toughness but also potentially adds years to your life. Imagine your brain as an athlete; with the right training, it can muscle out stress-inducing thoughts and replace them with a winning strategy. Throughout our discussion, Dr. Selk provides actionable techniques to rewire your brain for success. These include daily mental exercises and success logs aimed at fostering positive neural pathways. Moreover, we explore real-life triumphs in the sports arena where a steadfast commitment to solutions has led to unprecedented victories, showcasing the profound impact of RSF in high-pressure environments. As we wrap up our chat with Dr. Selk, the conversation shifts to the greens, where golfers know all too well the mental game’s highs and lows. We talk about the importance of a clear mindset and structured goal setting, taking a leaf from Stephen Covey’s book on proactivity. Whether you’re looking to shave strokes off your game or elevate your professional performance, embracing an RSF mentality could be your ticket to resilience and success. So, grab your clubs and your headphones, and get ready to play your best round yet, both in life and on the course. Dr. Jason Selk Bio Dr. Jason Selk served as the Director of Mental Training for the St. Louis Cardinals, helping them win two World Series championships in six years. He assists athletes, business leaders, and salespeople in developing mental toughness, confidence, and focus. Dr. Selk is a licensed mental health professional with a doctorate in counseling and sports psychology from the University of Missouri. He has worked with notable companies like Morgan Stanley, Ernst & Young, Merrill Lynch, Bacardi, and Enterprise Rent-a-Car. Dr. Selk is a regular contributor to Forbes and Inc., featured in various publications, and has appeared on major television and radio networks. In 2022, he co-founded the Level Up app for performance coaching. His books, including “Relentless Solution Focus,” “Executive Toughness,” “10-Minute Toughness,” and “Organize Tomorrow Today,” have received acclaim and best-seller status. Main Topics (00:03) Mental Toughness and Solution Focus Dr. Jason Selk discusses the benefits of Relentless Solution Focus and practical strategies to enhance mental toughness. (12:39) Changing Brain Biology to Improve Performance RSF thinking can improve performance by countering the caudate loop and shifting from PCT, as seen in sports teams’ success. (24:04) Golf Performance Thoughts and Control Mental focus and thought patterns impact golf performance, including anger and negative thinking. Performance statements and avoiding negative discussions are important. (30:40) Being Proactive, Setting Goals Proactive goal-setting is crucial for personal and professional development, with process goals being the key to success. (40:57) Relentless Solution Focus and 18STRONG Dr. Selk discusses Relentless Solution Focus and its application to improve mental toughness and performance in golf and life. Follow Dr. Jason Selk Instagram: @drjasonselk Website: JasonSelk.com Relentless Solution Focus Book Dr. Selk’s other books Links Mentioned How to Win Friends and Influence People – Dale Carnegie Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG Podcast episode number 367 with Dr. Jason Selk, sports psychologist and performance coach. What’s up guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast where we’re here to help you build a stronger game because we believe every golfer deserves to play better longer. This week we have a special guest, Dr. Jason Selk in studio to talk about his book, Relentless Solution Focus. And really just to talk about the RSF mentality, which is getting out of the cycle of thinking of our problems all the time, which tends to get us in trouble on and off the golf course and learning how to truly focus on the solutions that are going to resolve those problems or at least pieces of those [00:01:00] problems. So it’s learning how to shift your focus from the problem over to the solution. This is the number one characteristic of mental toughness, which Jason’s going to explain in this episode. He also teaches us not just how to understand this. The knowledge of it, but also how to take action and truly train our brains to do that. Just like you would train your muscles. So you really enjoy this episode with Jason. Our partners over at Link Soul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course from polos to t shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach. There’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong. com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20 percent off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong. com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview.[00:02:00] Dr. Silk, welcome to the 18STRONG Podcast. Jeff, Dr. Jason Selk: thanks for having me. As I said, you gotta please call me Jason. Absolutely, Jeff Pelizzaro: absolutely. First and foremost, this book, your book, Relentless Solution Focus, has been recommended several times on our last couple of podcasts. And it just happens that you’re a St. Louis guy, you live not too far down the road, and you were nice enough to come into the studio. So I can’t wait to dig into this, literally just finished it this morning, and but I want to talk to you first of all and foremost about mental toughness. Define mental toughness for us to just kick off the show. Dr. Jason Selk: We’re going to get right to it, huh? Yeah, for sure. I have had, hundreds of definitions of mental toughness over the last 25 years, but I think the one for me that sticks the most is the mind’s ability, To stay focused on solutions, especially in the face of adversity. Nobody needs mental toughness when the scoreboard is in your favor.[00:03:00] It’s when you’re losing by two or three runs, you’re down to your last out. It’s when your bank account is dwindling and you’re not sure how your pipeline is going to fill back up. It’s when you’re in a relationship and it’s not as easy as it used to be. I think those are the times where People really need mental toughness. Jeff Pelizzaro: And one of the most crucial pieces of the book is the fact that most of the time we tend to focus on the things that are going wrong the problems that we have. Can you speak a little bit to really the, that’s the big piece and some of the pieces that we can dive into to help. Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, I think it’s important to normalize for people that, unfortunately, the way our brains are built, it is completely normal, biologically speaking, to focus on the problem. It’s called PCT, [00:04:00] problem centric thinking. Hundreds of years ago, it was necessary for the advancement of the species. That, if we weren’t always worried about the threat that was lurking in the bushes, then we were more than likely going to end up in the lion’s den. And so hundreds of years ago, it was critical for survival, for literally, for our species to advance. Fast forward hundreds of years, and we live in a very safe time now, comparatively speaking, and so that same PCT tendency Even though it, hundreds of years ago, was so good for us, it’s now so bad for us. We just went through this worldwide pandemic, and the truth of the matter is, PCT will take more lives by far than any pandemic, hopefully, that we ever face. Certainly anything we’ve ever faced. Because we actually, when we allow our minds to do what’s totally [00:05:00] normal, which is Focus on the problem. The brain releases a neurotransmitter called cortisol. Cortisol, it’s the punctuation of fight or flight. And that is where, the advancement or the survival of the species was affected in such a positive way, was us living a lot of our lives in that fight or flight mode. However, when that cortisol goes in the bloodstream, it’s a toxin for us. It causes all feelings of stress. anxiety, fear, anger, depression, guilt, but it literally is like a poison. Now, the good thing is that when the cortisol goes in, it’s such a low dose, but shoot, if you inject yourself with low doses of poison, even if it’s just small amounts and low doses over time, that’s going to get you. And here’s what I tell you, people with. RSF and RSF is, it’s the title of the book, relentless Solution Focus. I think you could [00:06:00] interchange RSF for mental toughness. I really think they’re almost synonymous. So a person with RSF or a person with mental toughness, biologically speaking, is going to live on average 14 years longer. Wow. It’s crazy. You think about 14 years, think, what were you doing 14 years ago? That’s a long time. And. The kicker is not only will you live significantly longer, but scientifically proven again that you’re going to have measurable increases in health, happiness, and success, is if you can really learn to keep the mind away from that biologically normal PCT, which we know, with some training, doesn’t take major amounts, some, we can actually train PCT to go away And be replaced with RSF. So I could say PCT is mental weakness and I could [00:07:00] say RSF is mental toughness. With training, we can all become mentally tough, just as. When I’m born, my bicep is completely weak, but with training, I can make that guy pretty strong. With training. Yeah, and that’s Jeff Pelizzaro: the big piece that I took out of it is, mental toughness to me, that’s a noun, right? But RSF is you have to take action too. You can read all the books. And one of the big pieces of your book is that it’s not just about the knowledge. You’re actually giving a way for us to train. And I remember the story in there about when you were out on your deck and came up with the idea of Hey, we train our bodies. We have to train our mind. And so speak to how important the action piece is. We can hear it all though. We hear it all the time, but it Dr. Jason Selk: really hits home. Yeah, I think it’s why I’ve had so much success in my career. I know it’s what got me the job at the St. Louis Cardinals back in 2006. That, I think you get a lot of people in the mental health field. [00:08:00] And, maybe you say in the sports psychology world where it’s very much, let me teach you certain things. And I learned a long time ago, knowing something does nothing, doing something does. And again, if you look at, The biology of the brain. That’s the part I think people must understand that all day long I can pep talk you to be strong. Jeff, you know a lot about making the body strong That’s really your bread and butter. You could teach me so many things about having strong biceps or strong legs But until I get my butt up off this chair and go out there and start doing some of the exercises nothing changes and I know You know with my approach, a mental workout, it is a, when I was working with the Cardinals, it was three minutes and 40 seconds. People in the business world, it’s a minute and 40 seconds. And there are biological reasons, I need to, with an athlete, do enough visualization where it actually starts to create muscle memory. And we know [00:09:00] you can do that. In the business world, we don’t need muscle memory. We just really need that mental memory. So we don’t need to have it as long. But, again, it’s not a pep talk. Mental toughness is no more a pep talk than physical toughness is. However, you got most people like me. are going to tell you a pep talk will do it. And I would just challenge you. And I think this is why in my career, the people I’ve worked with have had a lot of success that we don’t talk about it. We do it, we train it. And once you train it, you really can’t. Not have it there when you want it. Jeff Pelizzaro: Can you break down a little bit of what RSF stands for? How do you go from that PCT thinking to more of the solution focused thinking? Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, so just definition, RSF is Relentless Solution Focus. And the definition I use is within 60 seconds replacing all negative or problem focused thought with Solution focused thinking, the reason we want to do it [00:10:00] quickly, the 60 seconds and I don’t know that people need to get their stopwatches out or protractors out, but the whole idea is to move your thoughts from problem to solution and do it quickly because the longer I stay focused on the problem, the more that cortisol is being pushed into the bloodstream. Now, I told you, cortisol makes you feel like garbage, but it also makes you stupid. If you think about fight or flight, your brain, the essence of fight or flight is your brain is just losing its ability for detailed thinking. Translation to me is, you become dumb. And I know this, if I’m trying to solve a problem, I need to be as smart as possible. So I want to, as quickly as possible, start working on the solution. But again, it’s completely abnormal. It’s biologically ingrained for me to think about the problem. And then most people believe, and I call this the great myth, that most people believe if you start thinking about a problem, it will naturally [00:11:00] lead you to a solution. And there’s just no empirical evidence anywhere to support that. When I first started I was doing a lot of marriage counseling. I was taking any, anyone who needed my services. I specialized in sport, but I had to pay the bills and I was doing marriage counseling. I was doing drug and alcohol counseling. I did anything any mental health person could or would do, I was doing. And so I had this couple and they were two physicians. They’d been married 30 years. Living in separate bedrooms for the last 10 years. . But I thought, okay, no problem. I, they train you something in, in in graduate school for marriage counseling. It’s called the ABCs of Communication. They’re still teaching this today. By the way, the A is you learn to say to your spouse, I feel B is when you see is in this situation. So these two come into the office and I’m really optimistic. [00:12:00] And I know they’re not doing very well, but I’ve got the ABCs, I’m gonna have them back in the rack in no time, no problem, right? So they sit down and I lay the ABCs on them, and World War III broke out. And I couldn’t control it, and they left the office, and I was very concerned. I thought I’m trying to build a practice here, and if people come in and they have 10 problems, and they leave and they’ve got 14 problems, They’re going to stop coming in pretty quickly and above and beyond that, I just, I want to help people. And so I started thinking, what did I just do? And thankfully I had this training with PCT and understood that PCT was this thing. And the ABCs are forcing people into that PCT mode. And I saw it in real life. You talk about the problems, you’re going to keep talking about the problems. And if you look at the brain, how the biology works, it’s called the caudate. It’s a little piece of your brain, and it’s built to loop, and that’s really that safety of the species [00:13:00] that I know there’s a lion over there, and I’m trying to build a shelter over here, but my brain keeps looping back to the lion, so that I don’t forget about it, because people are easily distracted, but we have a built in loop that will keep driving us back to our problems, so it’s pretty cool. What we have to do to be able to leave the PCT thought is we have to actually train the brain. Now the good news is there are certain elements of training mentally speaking that you can actually stop that loop from happening. You can cause it to have atrophy, if you will, and then you strengthen another neural pattern. And really it is, there’s a couple of things. One would be the mental workout, which is, I talked about a little bit before. It’s probably a little bit too heavy to get into, but it’s only a minute and 40 seconds daily. And I try to do it at least three times a week. And then you’ve got what are called success logs. And this is 30 seconds, and if you do those three times a week, biologically speaking, if you look at the science, you can’t stop the brain from [00:14:00] moving forward with its ability to be more RSF than PCT. So for me, because I’ve been doing this stuff for so long, When I’m around PCT, it’s just like a, it’s like somebody, I, it’s, I’m so aware of it now. It’s all over the place. So I try not to let it bother me, but I’m very aware of it. And even in my own world, when it shows up, it feels now foreign to me. I will not put much time or energy thinking, talking, behaving in that PCT mode. Here are the three questions. One. What did I do well today? Write down on a daily basis, do it three times a week, three things you did well. I’m just curious. When’s the last time you actually recognized what you did well? It’s pretty abnormal. Okay? Second question. What’s one thing you want to improve? Third question. What’s one action step you can take to make the improvement? And if you ask those questions three times a week, you create neural pathways. Your brain starts to lean into those neural pathways. That’s RSF thinking. What’s going [00:15:00] well? What do I want to improve? How am I going to make the improvement? The normal brain thinks, overlook all the good stuff, and zero in on your imperfections. You want to screw yourself up? You want to ruin your performance? Let yourself do that. I guarantee you, give me two athletes. One that doesn’t have any training, and one that will just start doing success logs and mental workouts. If they have the same skill set, there will be no comparison in two to three months. No way. And the more pressure you put on it The better my guy’s gonna perform. Sure. No doubt about it. It’s just changing the biology of the brain. It’s like you, take two athletes with the same skill set, make one of them physically stronger. Who’s gonna do better? Yeah. It’s not even a fair fight. And again, I’ve been really lucky in my career. I was with the Cardinals for six years. We win two World Series. I started with Auburn baseball a couple years ago. Predicted to be last in the SEC. We took fifth in the country. Started working with SMU’s football team last year. I’m not trying to get [00:16:00] back in the sports world, so people watching this, please, that’s not my goal. But it was a personal thing to get me back in with Auburn and SMU. But SMU hadn’t won an AAC championship in 40 years. 4 0. And we won it this year. Oh my gosh. Congratulations. Thank you. I’m not saying it to pat myself on the back. I’m just saying, it’s biology. If you change biology for the better, You’re going to have a much better chance of winning in head to head competition. Perfect. Jeff Pelizzaro: When we get focused on problems, and I’m speaking for myself too, it’s really easy to perseverate on it, like you said, the whole loop, but I feel like it’s also really easy to let that kind of snowball, and you tell a couple stories of how it snowballs from one little thing, and then all of a sudden My life is in a terrible place and I’m, and then the whole neurological and psychological physiology starts to happen too. So when, one thing that was refreshing to me, that You point out in the book is you don’t have to solve all your problems [00:17:00] either is pick one thing and you don’t have to solve that problem. You have to just take that one little piece and move forward. No Dr. Jason Selk: doubt. And if you think about whether it be competition or a relationship interaction, you’re right. It starts with one little mistake and then you’re done. Gets a little bit worse. Your performance gets a little bit worse. Performance gets a little bit worse. And every time performance gets a little bit worse, obviously the problem gains more and more momentum. So all you have to realize is And this is the hardest part is, you got to be able to recognize when it’s happening. That’s the hardest part because biologically you’re trying to recognize something that you’re built to do. It’s very difficult. It’s so normal to just get pulled into that caudate loop and let that one little problem or mistake start to snowball. So what we really want to do is, as quickly as we can, [00:18:00] interrupt that loop. And it’s simple. The interruption, but again, you first have to recognize, Okay, I’m focused on a problem and there is absolutely nothing positive that’s going to come from this. And I want to be very clear when I say this. Because some people believe. That by focusing on the problem, that’s where the value is. You do your own homework. Find some empirical evidence anywhere. If you find it, please email me because I need to see it. I’ve been searching for 20 years now and I’m just going to tell people there is no empirical evidence that focusing on the problem is going to lead to the solution or improve the performance. In fact, it’s the absolute contrary. It’s gonna totally start to devastate you. The first step is you gotta recognize, okay, my mind’s focused on the problem. And as easy as it sounds, it’s actually quite difficult. That’s where the training comes in. That’s if you have a little bit of that mental toughness, that neural patterning of the other stuff, this problem [00:19:00] centric pattern starts to seem a little bit foreign. And then you just simply, with one simple question, you What’s one thing I can do, right now, that could make this better. And I’m a big believer, I tell the Nando Parado story about one inch. Just look for an inch of improvement. Because if there’s a problem, and you can break the problem loop, And start to create momentum forward, then we start to have momentum moving in the right direction instead of momentum moving around in circles, or in this case, the wrong direction. What is one thing? Start looking for two or three things, we’re screwed. Start looking for the mile of improvement, we’re done. Find one thing, one inch, and you become relentless about one thing, one inch. You’ll love the results. Love the results. You were talking Jeff Pelizzaro: about the physiological changes, the cortisol, and I would imagine, and this kind of, since reading this, [00:20:00] what I’ve tried to pay attention to is, when I do start to get a little bit of that feeling starting to wor that’s almost you can use that as your trigger, right? Oh, I’m heading in the wrong path. At least for me, that was like, okay. I gotta, I got my 60 seconds. I gotta now pull out my sheet and figure out what’s the one thing. Dr. Jason Selk: Yeah, so if you just think right now, in the last 24 hours, how often have you experienced stress? You don’t have to answer. It’s a little bit rhetorical, but I want the listeners to think too. Were there three or four times that jump out? Was it one time that lasted for a couple hours? Was it 20 times, and anytime you experience that stress, you know your brain’s focused on the problem. We’re not even biologically able to experience stress, anxiety, fear, anger, depression, guilt. Those are what I call the nasty six. You can’t experience those without the cortisol. And the cortisol doesn’t go in without the [00:21:00] mind first focusing on a problem. So the alarm system, really the built in biological alarm that we all have is, The experience of any negative emotion and you think anytime you experience stress is an opportunity For you to start working on a solution. You just you know, you got to start looking out for stress and don’t give yourself permission stress gets a really bad name stress is actually if you think about it on a one to ten scale one two, three and four levels of stress Without them, we’re dead. I drove over here and I’m not the, I was on the phone playing on the radio on the way over here and without two or three, on that level of stress. I’m going all over, smashing into things. So 1, 2, 3, 4, I would say are healthy levels of stress. You’re not going to feel any negative emotion. It just keeps you on the correct decision making path. 5, 6, 7, [00:22:00] 8, 9, 10, all that. I want people to start viewing as unacceptable. It’s unhealthy. When you start to feel that 10, that’s when you’re self injecting cortisol. It’s like putting a poison or a toxin in you. That’s when you got to say, okay, wait, stop. I know I’m focused on a problem, I don’t even need to know exactly what the problem is, just here’s the question. What’s one thing I can do right now that could make this one inch better? And start putting your energy into that. Jeff Pelizzaro: Let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at FirstForm. And this week I want to highlight their Formula One Post Workout Protein Shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym, working all the time with clients. putting on a podcast. It can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post workout shake, the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger, and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But [00:23:00] also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to FirstForm. com. So let’s shift it now to, to the golf world. I know you’ve worked with tons of athletes, I’m sure you’ve worked with quite a few golfers. So how does this show up in, in our lives? On the golf course, in our training sessions, in our practice sessions and, what’s, what are the things that first get us stuck, and then how do we start moving with the Dr. Jason Selk: RSF? Alright, so two, and I’ll just generalize here, but have you ever broken a club, Jeff? No. Have you ever thrown a club? Jeff Pelizzaro: I don’t think so. Okay. But come, but maybe a little, Dr. Jason Selk: You understand the ground. Yeah, absolutely. That’d be [00:24:00] one thing. Anytime you’re showing anger, where do you think your brain is? You’re not PCT for sure. There’s no doubt. It’s got a hold of you and you’ve let that, if we’re looking at anger on the one to 10, you’re at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. When you’re throwing clubs, you’re screaming cuss words, you’re grouchy. , any of that stuff, you’re on PCT here. Here’s the other one. The don’t thinking, don’t. Hit it in the water. Don’t go left. Don’t slice. Don’t screw this up. Here’s another one. Now, it’s not quite as evident, but when you’re starting to calculate the final score. You’re on 16 and you’re saying to yourself if this, then This is where I’m going to be when I get in the clubhouse. Anytime you’re doing that sort of stuff, any of those three, I would tell you, you got your brain focused on the wrong stuff. And so you, okay what am I supposed to focus on? Because I could say to you all day long, Don’t think about a pink elephant with blue running shoes. And I know people listening, [00:25:00] I just said, don’t think about the pink elephant with blue running shoes, and that’s probably exactly what crossed your mind. So you gotta, instead of thinking about the pink elephant, you have to have something to think about. So I’ll do it again. This time I’m going to tell you, don’t think about a pink elephant. This time I want you to think, what’s your favorite color? What is your favorite color? Green. Alright, I want you to think about a big, beautiful, green, hot air balloon. Yeah. Alright, so don’t think about a pink elephant with blue running shoes. Yeah. You got the hot air balloon? Yeah, got it. Don’t let a pink elephant with blue running shoes get into your mind. Yeah. Okay, so RSF is the green hot air balloon. But you obviously, there is value in just not thinking about your problems, but I don’t want to be that professional. I want to know what’s the most valuable thought control. Part of thought control is stop thinking about the negative and I think when you have like gratitude journals, That’s really good stuff. [00:26:00] Anything other than your problems is a good thing. Because you’re not pushing the cortisol in the bloodstream. But if I can get the most appropriate solution focused thought, or thought control. So I would, for an athlete, for a golfer, we would come up with what’s called a performance statement. So let me think about a guy I work with who’s actually on the tour. Okay head down, tempo 7. Supinate. Okay, so he just, he wants to look at one dimple on the ball, even when the ball’s gone, his tempo of the backswing for him, he likes it at a seven, and then supinate is just follow through. So instead of thinking about all the don’ts or all the things that went wrong or all the things that could happen, I want him focused on that one thought. That most causes success for him, and that, in the sports world, would be what I call the performance statement. Every athlete I work with, [00:27:00] we’re going to come up with a performance statement, and then we review that performance statement. You heard me talk earlier about the mental workout. So we’re just reminding ourselves on a regular basis, we’re training ourselves. To be focused on that one thing throughout competition. Jeff Pelizzaro: And are there times when you have different performance statements for different, say, different parts of the game? Putting versus being on the tee Dr. Jason Selk: box. For sure. So I would want, I would just want a full swing and then putting. So typically with a golfer, I want to have two performance statements. One for each of those. Jeff Pelizzaro: You mention in the book that we tend to bond with each other over our problems, right? And I’m thinking of golfers, and I’m thinking of being on the golf course, and the way that we talk to each other, the way that we talk to ourselves, and many times it’s jokingly. But is that impacting how we play? Dr. Jason Selk: Absolutely, no doubt about it. And it’s no different. You guys are on the 18th hole, but think about, at the workplace. People are hanging around the, the coffee [00:28:00] break room. What do you think they’re talking about? How great life is? Or are they complaining about problems? Here’s another thing. What about the news? Yeah. I had to, literally, I had to quit watching the news 20 years ago. And it’s a real problem in my house. My wife wants to turn on the today show and it’s just like fingernails on a chalkboard for me because. All the people want to talk about are the problems. And I’m not saying we don’t have problems. I don’t put my head in the sand. I just know this, that when a problem enters my life, I’m not going to think or talk about it. I’m going to kick its ass. And that’s not what happens on the Today Show. And that’s not what happens when people are on the 18th hole, ruminating about all the things that went wrong out there and laughing about how bad we are as golfers. I would just tell you. Don’t participate in any of that stuff. That’s not making you better. It’s making you worse. And what you’ll find is your life’s going to be a whole lot better when you stop. Hangin around all these people who all they want to talk about is problems. Which is, [00:29:00] for the most part, just about everybody out there. So you gotta be a little bit careful with that last piece of advice. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, last little thing I want to touch on before we jump into our final segment of questions is goals. You break down, specifically, long term goals, short term goals. And how long term goals, it’s important to think big, it’s important to, really shoot for the moon, shoot for the stars, but short term goals have to be a little bit more realistic. And this is the first time that I’ve really seen somebody break it down and talk about why. Your short term goals need to be a little bit more realistic, and you can’t, make some crazy thought of what you’re going to achieve in a short Dr. Jason Selk: period of time. Yeah, and I really, it’s, everything I do is all just science. And not textbook science. Textbook is the first place, but then it’s got to be proven in real life. Empirical evidence. I was just watching Stephen Covey. His work I didn’t love the book Seven Habits, but he has a speech, hour long speech on each of the seven habits and it’s the most mind opening. John Wooden. And Steve and Covey have opened my mind more than any other two [00:30:00] people, but I just watched Covey’s first habit. It was proactive. Be proactive. And I didn’t fully understand it when I first started studying him years ago. And really, what Covey says with the pro, be proactive, is if you don’t have a game plan when you wake up, you’re gonna be just blown around by the wind. And I think, we’ve talked about PCT and there’s all kinds of reasons that if you don’t have a direction to start the day with, It’s quite likely you’re going to end up in the wrong spot. And so Covey, his concept of be proactive. And he says, it’s the most important of all seven of the habits, which I actually agree. It’s what I call, you must have a winning game plan. Now he doesn’t really talk about the specifics of what you need to do to be proactive. He’s just saying that if you’re not, you’re going to have real problems. So what I’ve tried to do is again, take science and performance science and really figure out, okay, what. What really does it mean to be proactive? And [00:31:00] there’s three levels of goals you talked about. I got vision, product, and process. Vision are result oriented goals three years or longer. And I know you have this concept, people have this concept of with goal setting, set it high and hope to get close. You got to also be really careful of this. There’s no empirical evidence to support that’s a good thing unless it’s in three year or longer periods. In less than three year periods, it’s like the New Year’s resolution. You set a high goal, you have no chance of reaching it, and then you end up just quitting on it. And that’s a really bad thing, because without goals, we are not proactive, we’re reactive. So you have to have goals. Most people don’t. They don’t know, they’ve never been taught how to effectively set goals. So they’re just, by default, not using goals, which means they’re really going to be starting each day reactive. It’s a really bad thing for the human condition. Anyway, vision would be a product goal, three years or longer. [00:32:00] Result, when I say product, I mean result. And then your second level of goal would be a product goal, twelve years or closer. And then your third would be Twelve months. Excuse me, I’m sorry, did I say twelve years? Twelve months or closer. And then your third level would be process goals. Process goals are the daily activities that are most important that will cause product and vision results to occur. Alright, so you might say, if I give you an example, I might say, okay, I’m in sales, and let’s use a golf example. I might say, okay, three years from now, I want to have won three majors. All right, so my product goal this year is I want to win one major. My process goals, and this is where you either win or lose is process. And most people as they get so focused on the product and they forget the process. Coach Wooden, he popularized this [00:33:00] 30 years ago and science has since confirmed this is your number one way to control for results. Focus on the process. And I would just say, you never want to have more than two or three process goals, but they want to be the most important activity. So it might be, I’m going to commit to mental workouts and success logs five days a week. I’m going to do strength and conditioning five days a week. And I’m going to follow my coach’s training plan six days a week. And we want to be, in the athletic world. With process goals, you really gotta be close to 100%, especially if you’re trying to compete at the pro level. In the business world I just tell you, it’s a lot easier if you can get two or three really good process goals in the business world, you go 90%, you’re going to win a major, you’re going to win multiple majors every year. But back in the sports world, the main thing I’d tell people is, when you set goals, vision, product, process, make sure you put the most energy, emphasis, focus, by far, [00:34:00] no comparison on those process goals. Jeff Pelizzaro: I love it. All right, a couple of closing questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. Just have a little fun. Caddyshack or Dr. Jason Selk: Happy Gilmore. I’m a huge Chevy Chase fan. I love Bill Murray, so absolutely no doubt about it Caddyshack. But, Adam Sandler held his own in Jeff Pelizzaro: Happy Gilmore. If you could pick a walk up song to the first T Box, do you play a lot of golf? Do you play Dr. Jason Selk: much? It’s interesting. You’re not going to like my answer. The last time I played golf was three days before I opened my private practice, so it’s been, 25, 30 years. Okay, wow. I just, I have spent so much time working, and I also felt, you know what? I’m going to have a lot of clients that are on the tour, they’re trying to get on the tour, and they’re going to want to go play golf if they know I play golf, and I’m going to look like a real fool. Just I’m not going to go out on the baseball field with any of my players, or the football field, I’m going to keep it on the sidelines no I don’t play. If I had a walk up song, oh I don’t know what’s that Eminem song? I, over the years I’ve had some walk up [00:35:00] songs for speeches what’s the Eminem song? Lose Yourself? Yeah, Lose Yourself. I really like that one. There was an ACDC song my good friend Cole Hillen put me on to, Thunderstruck, that was a good one. I’d probably go with one of those too. Okay. Maybe Hell’s Bells even, ACDC there, get people rocking a little bit. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is there a book, aside from the books that you’ve written, that has really meant a whole lot to you, that you tend to recommend to people, or that has just been special for you personally? Yeah, I Dr. Jason Selk: think from social standpoint, really from a professional or personal standpoint. Number one book I’ve ever read is Dale Carnegie’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. It’s written in 1926. The title, I think, Is a little off putting for some people. It’s not about manipulation, right? It really is about influence and the different, manipulation is I get what I want, but you don’t influences. We both get what we want. That book is so good at teaching social skills of how to get anyone involved. [00:36:00] to get what they want. Everybody wins, the more people that understand those concepts. I literally just bought that Jeff Pelizzaro: book for my 15 year old son. It’s about as Dr. Jason Selk: in my opinion, it’s the best that there is. Best book ever written, in my opinion. Awesome. Jeff Pelizzaro: If you could pick a dream foursome that you could go play golf with past historical figures, celebrities, whoever it might be, who would you put in your Dr. Jason Selk: foursome? I’d definitely put Coach Wooden in there. I was able to spend a little time with him before he passed away. It was enough to make me want so much more. I’d love spend a little time with Lombardi. I think that’d be interesting. I’ve studied him pretty deeply. And if I could get a round of golf with my dad. He passed away three years ago. I’d take it any day of the week. I’d go out and as long as it could take, I’d be out there swinging those clubs. I love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up and you could take those guys to any course in the world, where are you going to go? Dr. Jason Selk: I love going to Vegas. They got some good courses [00:37:00] out there and once we get off the course, I can show everybody a good time. I don’t know I wouldn’t mind spending a little time in Ireland. I heard they have some pretty good courses over in Ireland and Scotland, but Ireland, Scotland, or Vegas. I’ll let those three pick. Perfect. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is there a social media account that you follow in any realm that you think would be good for the 18STRONG crew to check out? I’d Dr. Jason Selk: love to say yes, but honestly, I haven’t been on social media for even one second for the last 12 months. Personally, and I’m not telling people not to be on social media. Personally, my life’s better because I’m not on it. I know I have an account myself, and I know it’s pretty active, but I You know, people manage it for me. I literally couldn’t even get on if I wanted to because I don’t even have passwords to get on. I don’t follow anyone, not to say that people shouldn’t, but me personally, I’ve found my life’s a little bit better without Jeff Pelizzaro: social media. No, I think that says a lot. That’s awesome. Alright, last one, and I know that you haven’t played golf in over 25 years. Yeah. But what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been Dr. Jason Selk: given? I [00:38:00] think I’d put it The best advice I’ve ever given that I’ve heard people say as a pattern, and it’s a centering breath. Remember, when you’re on the practice range, you really have very little pressure on you. And so it’s easy to hit the ball long and straight. You walk over to the first tee, and all of a sudden, the club’s not quite the same. And a lot of that has to do with your heart rate. See, when you put yourself in a pressure situation, your biology is built. to elevate your heart rate. When the heart rate elevates, it changes all kinds of things, including the timing of your swing. So what we want to do is keep your heart rate under control. And I would tell you before, every actual swing, maybe not every practice swing, but every time you’re going to actually swing the club, make contact with the ball, try taking a centering breath. Breathe in for six seconds. Hold for two. Breathe out for seven and chances [00:39:00] are it’s just going to make it so much easier because you’ve trained to swing the club Successfully at let’s say 80 beats a minute and when you put pressure in there that 80 turns into 88, 92 pretty quickly Centering breath will put you back at the 70 so it’ll make it a little bit easier for your training to cause success under pressure. Six, hold, count. Not as fast as you can, but do the old one Mississippi, two Mississippi, in for six, hold for two, out for seven. Jeff Pelizzaro: Dr. Sock, thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing. Everybody go check out Relentless Solution Focus. You can find it pretty much everywhere, I would assume. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast. And if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And of course, go follow us over on Instagram, at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart, and play better golf.[00:40:00]

Guest: Jeff Flagg (2014 World Long Drive Champ, Founder of Flagg Performance)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 365Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Unlock the secrets to enhancing your golf game with the wisdom of Jeff Flagg, the 2014 World Long Drive Champion, as we traverse the significance of rotational strength and athleticism on the fairway. Our conversation is not just a swing analysis; it’s a full-fledged exploration of how to invigorate your game, regardless of whether you’re in your prime or enjoying the sport’s golden years. We tap into Jeff’s expertise in functional training, using tools like PurMotion, to fortify your strength, mobility, and ultimately, your performance. This week’s episode is a treasure trove of insights for the discerning golfer who recognizes that power drives are just the beginning. Jeff and I pull back the curtain on the nuanced interplay between sport-specific exercises and our body’s mechanics, challenging the status quo of traditional workouts. We share stories from both the tee and the gym, illustrating the importance of a comprehensive training regimen that acknowledges the unique demands of golf – from honing rotational movements to fostering endurance for those challenging back nine holes. Finally, we chart Jeff’s inspiring journey from baseball to the links and how a philosophy rooted in functional movement revolutionized his approach to fitness. Our discussion underscores the need for tailored training that respects the intricacies of different sports, advocating a holistic strategy for strength and injury prevention. So, whether you’re aiming to lower your handicap or simply wish to infuse your lifestyle with vigor, this episode is your caddy to a more athletic and assured presence on the green. Join us as we help you shape not just your game, but an energetic and enriching life beyond the course. Main Topics (00:03) Building Athleticism in Golf World Long Drive Champion Jeff Flagg discusses rotation in the gym, social media engagement, and embracing individual perspectives in fitness and nutrition. (12:16) The Importance of Rotation in Golf Rotation is crucial in golf, impacting mechanics and endurance. Physical deficiencies can be exposed, requiring more rotational exercises in training. (14:59) Rotational Strength for Athletes Rotational strength is crucial in sports like golf, and sport-specific training with dynamic movements can prevent injury and enhance performance. (25:11) Transition to Exercise Education and Driving A former baseball player found a new passion in golf after studying philosophy, working with a swing coach, and seeking functional movement training. (28:36) Building a Rotational Athlete Nature’s interconnectedness in sports training, emphasizes rotational exercises, fascia’s role, and individualized approaches for injury prevention and performance. (36:25) Gym Equipment and Protein Supplements Proper post-workout nutrition, innovative fitness equipment from PurMotion, and the benefits of ground-based tools for functional training. (49:35) Golf Training for Strength and Confidence Nature’s versatile fitness program for golfers of all ages and skill levels, using movement variety and alternatives like bands, to eliminate weak links and build confidence. (56:44) Favorite Golfing Moments and Advice Debating golf movies, walk-up songs, book recommendations, and dream celebrity foursome with generational talent. Follow Jeff Flagg Instagram: @jeff_flagg Links Mentioned It Takes What It Takes – Trevor Moawad Getting to Neutral – Trevor Moawad PurMotion Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 365 with Jeff Flagg from Flagg Performance. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. This episode, we have a return guest from episode number 170, Jeff Flagg. Jeff was the 2014 World Long Drive Champ and is the founder of Flagg Performance. Jeff has been working with golfers on their fitness, on their game, for several years now, and we bring him back on the show to talk about building the athleticism in your game. And he’s actually here making the case for golfers rotating more in the gym and not just rotating more, but rotating better in the gym, utilizing some different pieces of equipment. Especially, we talk about the pure motion pieces of equipment that he used a lot in his training program that helps his golfers, whether they be teenage golfers or all the way up into their 80s, move better and hit different areas of the body, different angles, different forces, to make sure that they’re able to handle everything that the golf course could ever throw at them. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with Jeff. Right after this, our partners over at Lynx hole have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So you’ll get 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. What’s up? Yeah, man, thanks for doing this. This is cool, not too much. I was just kind of scrolling through your Instagram and realized, holy shit, he literally just kind of started posting that. 0:02:18 – Jeff FlaggI’m so bad. I’m so bad at it. 0:02:20 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m so bad at it. 0:02:25 – Jeff FlaggIt’s like provided me so many opportunities in the past and it’s like I just got to tell myself that like it matters and like I just post and like get in the rhythm of it. Yeah, so that’s my 2024 goal is to get on it, because it’s just like it’s just just where people find you. It’s just like it’s kind of dumb not to. 0:02:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, can I give you one suggestion on yours, because the black and white that you have of you just doing some exercises just do nothing but that like, keep it simple for yourself and that will look sick and people will. 0:03:10 – Jeff FlaggIt’ll come, just it’s fun, like people just the look of it feels cool and I’m sort of played with, like the you know you talk about, like the art and science, right, like and I sort of tend to lean towards the art side of it and like my dad’s artistic, and it’s like I looked up, like I just kind of like the look of black and white and it’s like you know what makes black and white phones different or whatever, and basically like the science or whatever says you know, it’s like your, your, your eyes drawn more towards the subject and not like crazy colors, and the other part of it is like our gym at Bears Club is the ugliest shade of yellow so it’s like that was the main reason, but. But it was like, yeah, it, and that’s kind of what I want to try to do is like like focus your eye on like what’s happening with the body and not like peripheral stuff. 0:04:08 – Jeff PelizzaroBut yeah, like I was just kind of scrolling through and looking, I’m like this just looks cool, plus, the movements that you’re doing are cool and eye catching. You know the pure motion stuff that you use. So I’m like, yeah, if he just does this and it’ll keep it really simple myself to just shoot those kind of videos. 0:04:24 – Jeff FlaggYeah, and it’s just like trying to take all the friction points out as much as possible because I’m a classic like over thinker, like all right. But you know I’m showing this, but it’s like somebody’s gonna say this and it’s like, and I know there’s nuance and it’s like in social media, it’s just not. It’s not a place for nuance. You just you post it and you’re falling across the room. 0:04:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, we just had Jeff Levecchio on recently and you said you’d listen to that episode and like talking to him, he’s like man, you just gotta you put it out there. You say what you know your audience is gonna need to hear in the way that they need to hear it. And, yeah, people are gonna chirp you. They’re gonna say, oh well, your glutes don’t actually activate that way, you don’t turn muscle, you know whatever. 0:05:07 – Jeff FlaggBut it’s like no, I’m talking to the people that need to hear this, need to understand it and everybody else just it brings up and it’s like everybody’s got you know everybody’s got their you know takes, getting older and stuff like that they realize like everybody’s got their own bias, like everybody does. It’s like you’re not gonna be completely gonna make everybody happy and it’s just like you know everybody’s got different experiences and and you know view points on things and lenses to look at things and it’s like to me that’s that’s unique and that’s like it’s not something to like go, oh, it’s right or wrong. I mean, you know our field is just shades of gray, you know, and it’s like there’s nothing established really much on any end of you know exercise, nutrition, like there’s so many factors. It’s like unique perspective I feel like is is, you know, that’s kind of yeah, that’s one man’s opinion. It’s kind of like how I see things this way and you know, thank you for what it’s worth. 0:06:07 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s like anything any golf pro, any fitness professional you could ask somebody to create a program. You could ask ten different professionals to create a program and they could be the smartest people in the world. They’re all gonna do something different and they could all probably critique a little bit of what the other person, what the other trainer or coach or whatever, did it. That’s just, it’s our natural inclination. 0:06:26 – Jeff FlaggSo, yeah, for sure you’re doing it, you know, and that’s it’s funny, like just going through, you know, I’ve been primarily in person and then, like you know, kind of launching an online product here shortly, and it’s like all those things going through my head and it’s like, and obviously there’s like all the you know scientific justification and you know swing speed and injuries work around it’s like. But it’s also like the other day, it’s like we’re training. It’s like you know there’s obviously boxes we need to check, but another box that I feel like is important to check is like it’s gonna look cool, I think like I mean look at, look at look at any golf swing, you know pro golf swing, let’s say amateur, the pro golf swing, you know, in slow motion or a cool different angle, it’s like it looks cool, it’s like a cool athletic, coordinated, you know body, it’s just twisted up and it’s like it’s cool. Look at watch and it’s like eye catching and it’s like you know. Why don’t we bring a little bit of that into training, not only to prepare for what you’re trying to do, but also, like you just want to move cool, like you don’t want to walk around like a brick, you don’t want to walk around. Like you have the, you know, as we all get older, the old man shuffle. Like you know. It’s like you, you just, whatever you do, however, whatever your talent level is with golf, it’s like, at the end of the day, I think you want to move, you know walk in. And like you walk in, you know you carry yourself well, you move smoothly, it’s like you flow. You look at all the greatest athletes. They’re all just like a swag to them and it’s like, bring it a little bit of that into into your training. It’s like, why not work on that a little bit, you know? 0:08:00 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, you know, that’s the athleticism part to me, right, like we talk about. You know you want to be an athlete when you train you want to be an athlete. Golfers are athletes, but like so. For instance, I just had a gentleman in here the other day. He’s a year younger than me, 44 years old. He if he’s listening to this, he’ll know who I’m talking about having some back pain. I worked with him years ago when I was in the physical therapy clinic. But he came back and he, you know, played high level football, played a lot of high level sports, loves golf, and he’s been having so much pain recently that he’s like dude. I literally feel like an old man and almost to the point where it’s. It’s become depressing because he feels like the pain may never go away and this may. He may be just on the down slide right and I was like dude, you have so much athleticism in your history, in your background. Yeah, you beat your body up so we got to fix some things, but like it’s not over, you’re 44 years old, like we’re going to get this back, we’re. And I saw like the weight fall off of his shoulders and be like are you kid? Like like, oh, that’s all I needed to hear. And now you know he’s doing some things and we’ve only met one time but like I have very high hopes of where we’re going to go with him and just to make him feel like like he’s a strong, powerful dude again. You know, he’s like a 6’3 big guy and like and he said he was golfing with his dad not too long ago and his dad’s like what’s wrong with you? You look like an old man. He’s like I feel like I’m your age, you know so, so it’s that kind of thing. It’s like, yeah, I want to be able to move and do things. And you know, like, move around and not just stick in a box. You know, like Levecchio said, like do all my exercises in a phone booth, right like you need to be able to move like a, like a cat, you know. So I’m glad that you said that, because it’s it’s the athleticism and we we hear that word all the time, but to me that’s like really. 0:09:48 – Jeff FlaggWhat that means is like no, I’m it’s not downhill, I mean, that’s like I actually had so much, like you know, being at a golf club and you know my day to day is a lot of the older, you know, club golfers and it’s like it’s almost when they first come in. It’s like there’s a little bit of like that wall up that you got to break down. Like you know, the gym is, it’s intimidating call these weights, like all these things you know. And it’s like I, you know my doctor told me this I got this hip replaced, I got this bad knee, I got this shoulder, I got this neck fusion or whatever. And it’s like I’ve sort of I’ve worked with all of that and it’s like, okay, great, and I’m not here to diagnose you, that’s not my lane. It’s like I’m here to find what can we do. You know, as opposed to you told me all the things you can’t do, right, so it’s like what can you do? That’s where we start. And then you just built from there and it’s like, and you guys are in your playing golf three, four times a week. You know how hard a golf swing is on your body, like, if you can swing the golf club like, you can do a heck of a lot in the gym and it’s just again it’s like we’re here making the gym, you know, a, a, a, you know not a intimidating place, start here and then you just build it out and I think it’s yeah, it’s one thing I always try to do when trying to put myself in people shoes, being there in the past, injuries and you know kind of that feeling of I mean I was 20, you know, playing college baseball, and like I felt fragile, like I was big, strong, but like I felt fragile because I love training. It’s training hard and getting I’m not gonna anything, but it was a lot of the Olympic stuff, a lot of the square stuff, a lot of that it’s like. And then I always had to do a bunch of hip mobility and all that to get my body ready and it’s like had you know the little, you know the little oblique strains, little you know rhomboid strain, things like that, it’s like the little connectors and stuff, and it’s just like it got to the point where I was like I’m on paper I’m strong, but I don’t feel strong and it’s like there was just a disconnect there. So again, over the years of got athletic career taking its course, you know being exposed to different things over the years and you know competing myself, obviously in a different sport long drive and swing a stick for a long time and it’s like just trying to find what’s gonna. It’s never gonna be one-to-one, but like bringing you know all the benefits of training right. We all know to be healthy, resistance training is great, cardiovascular health and all that like that’s all like we get it. But golf is like my luck and I play it a lot and it’s like no-transcript in the traditional sort of approach is like you gotta do this, then go play your sport. But it’s like can we? You know, like we have to do the basics right. But what if the basics were a little more, kind of speaking to me and what I like to do and the rotation is a huge part of the golf swing and like that’s kind of where I kind of looking at the landscape and like when everybody comes to me, it’s like you know what is. What does every golfer say? When I get tired, I quit turning. You know I go to the golf pro. I can’t turn. Like I need more. I need more turn, I need more backswing, I need more like with. You know I’d say everybody says it and it’s like, okay, well, like, let’s work on that, you know. Let’s like let’s you know, if you, if you got it, let’s keep it, train hard and let’s keep it, and if you don’t have it, let’s sort of try to cultivate it and like, little by little, everything you do sort of goes into that bucket of like it’s helping me turn better. And and that’s where I, you know, when you think of next stuff, low back, you know, hip to knee, any of the you know pick your, pick it out of a hat, a lot of it comes back to it. For me, for golfers, it’s like it’s that’s, it’s not turning fully or inefficient, sort of mechanics and sequencing and and comes from, like you know, physical capacity not being able to rotate right, left, you know, or some you know, the golf swing will expose. If you have a, if you have a physical deficiency of any kind, the golf swing is going to expose it. 0:13:48 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, it’s interesting. You know, when we were communicating back and forth, you said something to the effect of you know, there’s a lot of of professionals out there saying that you know, like, and and I’m I’m one of them I’d said it in the last couple episodes that you know, golfers rotate all the time, and so one of the things we need to do when they’re in here is is not necessarily have them rotate, but you’re like, actually I’m here to like make a case for a little more rotation for these golfers, and what you just said about you know, at the end of their round, them losing their rotation, like that makes a lot of sense to me. We just had Mitch Sodowski on talking about the fact that golf isn’t explosive sport, but it’s also an endurance sport. No matter what level you’re playing, if you’re riding in the car for four hours, maybe five, or if you’re playing for four days, but yeah, at the at the end of a round, you still have to have the same mobility and capacity of the endurance of that rotation. So you know that that definitely kind of changes my mind a little bit on the idea of, yeah, maybe there we do need to, maybe I do need to start putting a little bit more of that stuff and and a lot of the unilateral stuff that ends up going in has some rotation to it. I’m watching a lot of your videos and seeing how you utilize the cables and things like that a lot. But yeah, so you’re here to plead the case for more rotation. 0:15:00 – Jeff FlaggYeah, I mean again, it’s like I’ve only snicked my whole life and it’s like you know, and it’s one of those things like over the years it’s just like aha moments and again being and it’s kind of like I feel like a lot of you know fitness professionals and trainers and things. It’s like we have, whether we have an athletic past or like have an injuries in the past, and it’s like that’s like sort of you know pushes us in this direction of like I want to help people not have those injuries and things. And and yeah, it’s just like it’s you know. It’s kind of how I see it is like it’s just preparing. It’s it’s you know we talk about building strength and it’s like rotational strength and that’s sort of where I sort of I guess you know my viewpoint sort of centers on, because obviously, with like power and speed you know I used to be a long drive champion like yeah, people kind of you know want to hit it further. It’s like I see the recipe being, you know, trained and get yourself strong and ripped drivers like do the thing Right and and again, we try and yeah, and I, I, I. I utilize the all kinds of tools but, like you know, medicine balls are kind of in the middle. But again, what I see, the limiting factor a lot of times is that rotational strength portion and, like you said, a lot of the you know, unilateral stuff. I mean, I just see rotation as it’s not just twisting right, it’s like you know it’s. You know what do we do right at golfers, right, we’re loading to the right, unloading to the left, right, okay, well, like what if we loaded to the left and unloaded to the right? And what if we, you know, right in a golfers, are side bent to the right at impact kind of creating force in a sort of right side bend, you know, impacting through the ball? So what if we create force side bending the left, like it’s just that the golf swing is very specific, so what? And I just I love again I sort of the the my dad’s architect and like I sort of gotten this eye over the years of like just looking at, like the architecture. You look at the body, you look at the lats and look at the obliques and you look at the pecs, look at the groin, like how they, they all like sort of wrap and and the architecture of it all, like okay, like you know, and I don’t know, not a penguin broad brush, but, like you know, bench squat and deadlift are like not hitting those like I use them, you know, and and it’s there’s a disconnect of a feel, right, and so it’s kind of again, I talk about it like it’s rotation just like ties everything together from a physical standpoint and from like I think when we talk about athleticism, like you know, you see, I mean the example that once comes up in my head is, like you know, you look at an unbelievable athlete like I just I remember this from years ago Adrian Peterson, right running back. I remember watching like a celebrity softball game and he was like swinging and missing Like dude, looks like a Greek God when he’s standing there he’s running on the football field but then like that rotational coordination and awareness and just looked like he was just like you know he was that fit out of water and it’s just like. Okay, so like the athleticism demands are different. Obviously he’s a great football player, but, you know, obviously a rotational athlete has different demands, right. So it’s like that’s kind of again all goes into like my, my sort of view on things of like you know it’s definitely not loading up a cable machine and holding it with a golf grip and you know, pulling down, like working on your downswing, that’s just that. But I just see, you know, with different implements. You know, I know I’ve kind of been told in the past that like the movements that I do with the foot, the feet pivoting, it’s like they kind of chuck that up to like baseball footwork. But to me it’s like you know we get so you know golfers get so planted in the ground right Again the like globally, sort of looking at the golf swing. It’s the feet are planted, the body’s rotating on top of sort of solid legs, right. Obviously there’s more involved, but so basically in the gym sort of flipping that. So those exercises are sort of getting the hips, the groins, lower leg, everything a little more active. Looks like a baseball swing, but it’s just, it’s kind of again, looking at it from a balanced perspective of like all right, I can rotate my feet planted, I can rotate my feet, movement, I can rotate with my yo and with those moves it’s like the chest is pretty square to the resistance and then it’s like, okay, I’ll do stuff where. It’s like, you know, feet are solid and the upper half is rotating, so it’s like it’s all. It’s kind of just just looking at all the different directions, it’s kind of like you know, or or from from pure motion, it’s like we’ve, we’ve, we sort of you know the whole planet and orbit, sort of analogy. It’s like you, when you look at the planet and you look at how the planets go around, it’s like you know, you got, you got here, you got here, you got here you got all the different angles and they’re all different. Like all the muscle activation is different. It’s different. You know parts you know harder than others and it’s just like it’s at the other day. It’s like I want to be able to cover all those bases to be just, you know, a complete rotational athlete. You know, that’s kind of kind of what I’m trying to try to build. You know, when I’m working with people yeah, I mean watching your videos. 0:20:30 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, there’s some some cool things that I had never even really seen before. You know, like some of the bar movements where you’ve got the bar overhead and you’re either pulling or rotating and you’re in kind of that split stance, and I’ve always liked the idea or mentally just kind of seen the idea of like, yeah, we’re just trying to hit different angles, different vectors, and, and if my body can handle, or my client’s body can handle, forces in all different directions they can, they can find their balance, they can create some sort of force and and direction and movement against resistance. Like then I feel like we’re doing our job, like you said. As far as making them more well rounded, yeah, we’re not working specifically on what their downswing feels like in that motion, not to say that I never goof around with that kind of stuff too and play around with some of those things, right, because that’s also what they want they come in and they want the same. But, yeah, watching your, your different movements, I’m like that just makes so much sense and and some of the different you know apparatuses that you guys are able to use. 0:21:29 – Jeff FlaggWell, and it’s like you know, like I said, kind of with the, you know it’s like pro guys or or you know, college players, high level players, it’s like you know they have it right. They have rotates like we’re trying to get more the whole Western way more weight, more range of motion, more, more, more, more, more. So it’s you know it’s it’s cultivating that right and sort of solidifying that and stabilizing that. That’s their range of motion. They own it right. And then you know, for the older clubs, I mean I do like again some of the you know more extreme stuff, I sort of pose the me do under stuff like that. Like that that’s there’s obviously progressions, but I mean I do it with 75 year old ladies and I do it with, you know hope again guys that have neck fusions and it’s it’s it’s it’s a systemic sort of you know strengths that I want to build where it’s it’s. Yeah, maybe you do have, you know your, you know a couple cervical vertebrae fused. All right, you’re not getting anything out of that, right, you’re next to me a little stiff, but we got to get as much as we can out of thoracic. We got to get as much as we can out of our hips, we get as much as we can out of your shoulder blades, like we got to be able to like work with what you have. And it’s not just like it’s, it’s, you know it’s, and that’s where it’s like I talk about it more systemically where it’s not just sitting there doing isolated exercises, kind of like you’ve seen, it’s like it’s, it’s I’m on my feet coordinating everything and it’s it’s. Everybody in the boat is rowing the same direction and apparently you know some people are going to be limited, but it’s, I’m trying to. I’m trying to build it where it’s not just one area that’s getting connected to a lot of injuries happen. Right, it’s like you’re too loose in some areas, not strong enough in other areas, and it’s like the one spot that kink in the hose gets hammered and trying to again open everything up where it’s. And again, with the older clientele not even if I love the cable so much because you can, you can play with resistance and it’s like you can put them in athletic positions and it’s, you know, kind of work in resistance that they’re not really used to and you know kind of you know they’re so used to golf swing rotating. You know loaded rotating. You know, I take all my lessons, do all that and it’s like just getting them to rotate the opposite direction. It’s almost like the whole, all the benefits of like walking backwards. Right, there is the brain benefits, of what it’s like just getting them rotating in a different direction or having, you know, loading on one leg instead of the other or sort of just it’s sort of you can see their brains sort of light up where it’s like, and that’s where, again, a lot of tightness and stuff comes from just awareness and like you know, a you lock up because you don’t feel strong and you don’t feel comfortable with your balance or your strength or your you know. You kind of devolved this way, right, so to be able to sort of not only, obviously, you know, strengthen the tissues and things like that, but it’s given the brain that information of like hey, like you’re safe here, like you can turn here, like you can go there, like it’s, it’s all just feeding, trying to feed good information into the system and let the athlete do what it wants. Everybody swings different ways, everybody’s got different ways to do it. It’s just like let’s just try to bulletproof you so you can be, you know, free to do it, use it, how you use it, you know. 0:24:58 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen did your kind of philosophy mentality on training shift so for for people that are listening that don’t know your background, professional baseball won the 2014 Long Drive Championship. Then was it after Long Drive that you went back for your education in exercise. 0:25:17 – Jeff FlaggI finished baseball and then I had a semester of school left so I went back I think it was 20, 2013, went back to school and then that’s when, like you know, didn’t have baseball. You know, I was like my spring, my spring is freed up. You know, it’s nice to have a spring time, so I was going to go to school and start philosophy and just spending more time to golf course just because I was, you know, kind of I’d always kind of grew up, I just kind of self taught growing up playing. And then I met a swing coach there and you know, we we got on technology the first time, I think first time I, you know, measured my swing speed of, like you know, 132 or four or something like that. So it’s like you know I was, I was a power first baseman, like I had. I had I’ve always had a little bit of juice. You know, being six foot six helps too, but but, but, uh, and just started, you know, long Drive there, and then that was 2013, then one in 2014. But, um, yeah, I met Jorge from Pure Motion in 2010, I believe, when I would play baseball, and and he just he had this warehouse and he, I like it was an off season job, um, I like I worked there and was able to work out there and, like, sort of, was exposed to sort of his way of looking at things. And you know, it’s cool just thinking back. I mean, it’s been a long time now. But like the development of you know, some of the products and stuff that you see, it’s like it’s kind of fun to be in the lab with the crazy guy that he is, um, but that sort of started to shift my focus of like. It’s like, yeah, I mean I honestly remember having like an epiphany of like, yeah, I forget I was in the car and driving. I was like man, I just wish I could find something like because I love training, you know, with the school, just like you know, you know, at the high school, like Getting into weightlifting, getting hurt, and then you know like having the old, like the old, like Hershey Walker, like the calisthenics, like you know pushups and the side like a body weight stuff, yeah, like doing that as a young kid. And then like getting and getting the college and lifting heavy and like getting big and strong, like I loved it all. Okay then, I loved it Just the fact that you know it’s preparing me For the sport and because you know baseball was life and it’s just like over the years, get beat up, and it was just like sort of having this little reservations and I’m like on paper I’m strong like bench in 315. Like you know I’m not I know what. I backslotted power clean and stuff like that, but like strong, but like just felt like I was you know kind of stiff when I was going to swing and run and Things like that, and it just like it was like the more I did of that, the stiffer I was getting, you know and without having to do a bunch of, like you know, hip mobility stuff. So that just is a seed that was planted in my head and then getting exposed to to Jorge and like. Oh, like this is different, like this is like it’s the same stuff, like it’s squatting, it’s the basics, right, it’s squatting, it’s benching, it’s, it’s it’s pushing, it’s pulling, it’s rotating and it’s like oh, like this feels different and it was one of those things like it. Just I Work there as an offseason job like shipping orders, and then, like then started, then started kind of finishing my degree and then started training intern there and then sort of was going around it and so was there, you know, director of education, that going overseas teaching it and and then just again getting winning a long drive, getting in the golf world, sort of looking at through the golf lens and and just getting putting all the pieces together. It’s been a bit of interesting, like, looking back, it’s always pretty interesting to see how it all falls together, but it’s it just always goes back to like, yeah, it’s funny, the people that I I exposed to it myself, included Jorge, like Jorge’s in a five-time Olympian In in in martial arts. So it’s like it’s rotational athletes, it’s just like it just it fits for for for that approach and I’ve sort of you know again, kind of doubling down on Stickin ball, sports, golf and baseball, like I’ve sort of you know, tweaked some things and and you know it’s it’s evolved, but it all goes back to just building a rotational athlete. And it’s like I’m use this with NFL players, like you think about you know I can get making the case right now I’m making the case, but like if I was to to talk to an NFL guy, like if you’re running cutting change of directions, like you got to be able to get in that hip, you got to be able to rotate the torso, or it’s like those forces in your, in your, your knee and back, or like our. There are a lot for big and strong guys. So it’s that ability to be soft but also training hard, lifting heavy, you know good. Again, it’s like those sort of traditionally sort of Opposing viewpoints can try to meld those and bring those a little closer together. 0:30:29 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine with somebody like that, that maybe has trained kind of that you know straightforward way their entire life. Just Implementing some of these rotational pieces just you know different angles and directions, I mean just having them do a little bit of that stuff could Really really increase the effectiveness of them. Out on the turf and running and cutting and and you know, jumping, I mean everything and in and injured and that’s like it’s the. It’s just that, it’s that it’s a piece of the. 0:30:59 – Jeff FlaggIt’s just that. It’s that. It’s a piece that I see is missing. I feel like it’s just again. You see, and this is, you know, rotational athletes included, I mean again working with some college guys. It’s like to see, it’s like what I went, like it’s it’s, you know, it’s kind of a football workout and then let’s throw some med balls or let’s do some like immobility stuff and there’s a golf workout now, you know, but it’s like kind of Looking at all of it and being like all right, do we should? Does a golfer really need to like barbell bench? That’s all it’s got like. You know, pressing strength is important, but like if you have a cable or band or a suspension trainer or something like that, like to be able to do unilateral work, to be able to like it incorporates some of that. It’s just our bodies are just you look at everything’s just twisting and wrapping around. You like it just again. It’s like I just feel like there’s gaps, you know, and I don’t know if you felt it, or or just when you, when you sort of add some of that stuff in it, it it just ties everything together, right, and that’s a kind of my goal with anybody, right. But you know athletes that you know make a living doing it, it’s, it’s. You can’t be injured and you know we can’t leave any stone unturned as far as you know your health and your performance and we, there’s a lot of things that you, you know. It’s that the benefits of loading the body and Doing it in a way that you move, and you know flow and move in your sport and it’s kind of just again trying to Check both of those boxes and not one or the other, and it seems like we’re learning so much more about the body and really like the fascia and how that connects everything. 0:32:40 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you know, when we went through school we saw our anatomy charts and we saw the muscles and they the origin is here, the insertions here, and and we kind of thought, straight planes and okay, this muscle moves this, this muscle moves this. And now it’s like, oh my gosh, everything’s connected and we’re seeing that some of the most effective ways of training for Athleticism and just to have that we like call that elasticity or hyper elasticity is you have to move in these different directions. You have to to build the, the fascia and the connective tissue so it it’s able to move differently and accept all these different stresses for injury prevention, but also for that, that speed and that explosiveness that you’re so yeah, absolutely. 0:33:19 – Jeff FlaggI mean, it’s just it’s that, that that interconnected and it’s like just kind of tapping into, like, yeah, and it’s kind of what I preach to people too is just that that, yeah, I want people to like push back on, like this is what I think, but I’ll, you got to feel it like, you got it like and that’s like, again, a lot of the feedback I get is like I’m I’m freed up a little bit like and it’s like and then I’m not talking like, you know, 25 year old professional athletes, I’m talking like you know, 70 year old men and women. It’s like they’re, you know, because we had golf and I feel like you can, you can just everything is, you know, I need to be tight with my, with my form. I can’t take the club out, I can’t take it in, I got to take it here and then it’s like I got a, you know, I got to have, I got to have the posture and everything’s almost like shrinking, shrinking us a little bit In the sake of VR, in the name of control, or, you know, it’s just to be able to, because, again, training is important and it’s like for overall health. But if we can make that training, help them dude, because obviously you’re working with golfers like myself and it’s like that’s such a huge part of their life they’re going to spend, they’re going to invest some time with you to get healthy. But it’s like you want I always preach, like you should be able to hit balls when we get done, like I don’t care how many pounds we’re moving over the course of 30 minutes or an hour, it’s like you should be able to walk out and, because golf is the sport you play every day, like I can’t blast you, take three days to get that sort of out and then blast you again. It’s like that’s not a sustainable practice and the more it again what I’ve seen like the more you train in this free. It’s controlled, but it’s free. We’re not just rolling around the ground and some of those free flowing workouts which, again, if that’s your jam, go ahead, but it’s freedom, but you’re low in the body and then again it’s going to in applicable ways to how you use it. That’s where, with the golf swing, I kind of look at it like get zooming out. What are we doing? Right, we’re leveraging a tool, we are rotating and we are have to sync all that up and we’re interacting with the ground, right. So it’s like all right, let me check those boxes while I’m training and I can lunge, push, pull, rotate and then check all those boxes as well. It’s like, okay, we’re preparing for imposed demands. So that’s kind of. Again, that’s what I have tried to and I’m always sort of tweaking it and trying to poke holes in it. But it’s been fun to sort of apply it across all populations and as people enjoy it and get better. 0:36:26 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post-workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in a gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis. And so I know that with the post-workout shake the Formula One, first of all, it’s fast-acting. So right after your workout it’s a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So again, go over to 1stphorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. For those of you listening, check out Jeff’s page so you can see some of the stuff we’re talking about. For those that are just listening, jeff, we’ve mentioned pure motion and some of their tools a little bit. Just give a little bit of an idea so people can kind of understand what’s different about what you guys have or what Jorge has built. 0:37:45 – Jeff FlaggIt’s also kind of funny about that is when you really distill it down. It’s literally what the Egyptians used the most primitive tools. Obviously they look a little different in a trading setting, but it’s literally like pulleys, levers and free weights. That’s literally it. And honestly, the cable machines is like that’s my favorite piece of equipment in any gym and it’s hilarious because you go in a lifetime where you go in an equinox or something like that and you go in. It’s like the dual cable machine is like sitting in the corner, like nobody’s using it, somebody’s doing chess flies on it. It’s like to me it’s the most personal piece, just because you can change vectors, you can change angles and it’s like a more of an applicable angle to how we’re moving. In sports it’s like in golf. I mean that golf club is moving diagonally around us and it’s like nothing is like the play of the glass that we learned in school. I’m like you know sagittal play. It’s like we’re interacting with the ground differently. We’re interacting with an outside resistance. So it’s like the cables and the attachments. With the cables that get simple stuff. It’s a longer bar so you can have two hands on it. It’s a longer bar so you can kind of increase the leverage and get that resistance away from you a little bit, which forces the core to work more. The landmine, called the renegade in pure motion terms, but the landmine system, like in all the attachments that go with that, it’s like it’s so funny because it’s so simple. It’s like the attachment that goes on the user end. Literally it’s just allowing you to have the width or the grip of an Olympic bar, just on that end. It’s just a handle and it’s all it is, and then a longer one so you can load it on your shoulder and do lower body stuff, the different. I know I’ve used the Omega a lot. That’s kind of a little more advanced, but it’s the same sort of thing. It’s just increasing leverage, kind of get your arms out of the way from you a little bit. Some of the Olympic variations are pretty sweet just because it’s the handle swivel kind of on that landmine setup where it’s just allowing you to keep your wrist neutral, like I mean, working with football guys are like you know, our hands are like linemen and stuff Our hands at risk get crushed in practice. And then it’s like I’m going to go in the gym after practice and do cleans and have to catch it and it’s like, again, the form of cleans is super important and it’s like cleans are valuable but it’s like can we do it in a way that’s like not going to beat you up as much, you don’t have to learn the skill as much, and that’s kind of what you know he’s accomplished there. And then, like suspension trainer, it’s like you know it’s got a pulley so you can do one arm, you can do rotational stuff you can do. You’re free to move a little bit where it’s like it’s just like you know the straps aren’t going to rub your arms raw, like it’s just giving you like more options out of like kind of simple tools. The mopping bar is a great one. I don’t know I haven’t posted down in a while. I got to. I got to. 0:41:17 – Jeff PelizzaroI remember seeing that I haven’t seen it recently. I got to show you that one. I got to post something. 0:41:22 – Jeff FlaggYeah, yeah, which, again, it’s like it’s just your ground based. You’re having to like load your body rotation. I mean it’s really nothing that I’ve ever done that hits the trunk like that. We call it the short bite, but like it’s, you load that up and I don’t care. Like it’s a, it’s a different kind of strength that you need to to do some of those moves and it’s like, and that’s again to be able to like load it up and again like to train those patterns hard. And it’s like nothing, nothing on the golf course is going to like put you in a vulnerable spot, like it’s. It’s like you know the foot pivoting movements and the wide stances and the big. Like you know rotational arcs and bending and flexing and it’s anything else. That’s like if I can do all that or build myself up to do that, it’s like you know hitting 500 golf balls is not going to, not going to move the needle. It’s like it’s just so. It’s again, it’s just building your building that engine to to withstand what you’re, what you’re trying to do, what you, where you want to go. 0:42:31 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I love it. The, the one that I’ve been seeing, the it’s like the elbow slings where you’ve got them like in a plank position. So is that just a? 0:42:39 – Jeff Flaggpulley that’s attached. It’s called the air fit, but yeah, it’s like. So it’s. It’s suspension trainer, but it’s got a pulley right and it’s like it’s. And the slings again are sort of designed to just sit on your arms. So again, pushing exercises and I use it. I got clipped off and used on a cable machine too, but the whole idea and it’s like a seat belt material where it’s not going to rub your arms like like, like another, like sort of strap would on some suspension trainers, so it’s like you’re able to put your shoulder in a stronger position. One and then two, the core stuff that the sling allows you. I mean that like that’s like I got to. I got to, I got to come out there in person and like bring you through some of that. Cause it’s like that’s another, that’s a strength, that’s a core strength that it’s so untapped, I guess to say cause. It’s like. There’s not many things that I’ve found that that can you know some like hanging leg raises maybe can, but it’s like there’s a. It it’s those lower abs and hip flexors and it’s kind of it’s in a supported position, right. It’s not like I’m isolating that specifically. It’s like I’m. I’m technically, I’m on my feet Right. But and when I talk to you know, and usually across the board, when I put golfers on that initially, it’s like they they can do five and they’re crushed and it’s just like cause. It’s just a different strength and it’s like it’s and how I explain it is like it’s it’s a strength where you can. When you build it up, it’s like you’re you’re supporting your back from the front and you think about, I know some of the bass, I kind of a reverse sit up move where you sort of like a pike is kind of you know for not having video of it it’s, it’s kind of a pike motion. But what I’m sort of what accentuates is that sort of eccentric lengthening of the abs on the way out and that redirects into flexing the hips and the trunk. And when you think about the golf swing, I’m you know everybody’s talking about speed, you know ground forces, extension and busting up and through it. It’s like I don’t want all that go, I don’t want just my spinal extensors to like be fired, that I need to have that eccentric strength on the front to protect, you know to, to build that armor. I think I I was kind of the theme last time I was on here is, like you know, building that armor to be able to because, again, you want to increase speed, you got to bang drivers like, and you got to like get crazy, you got to like step into it and you got to like recoil and like do all kinds of crazy stuff and getting your body in a position to withstand that. Like we got to layer those, those, those sheets of armor on you, and that’s especially one that that I’ve found, like guys, a little back and hip stuff sort of I’ll say it’s not immediate, but sort of melt away when they have that strength that that that can protect. 0:45:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I, I could see that being super beneficial and and I so, for those of you listening and hopefully watching, we’ll have some videos. But you know, you’re like the one that I watched. You had one of your guys in a plank position and you’re there, their elbows are in like straps right and you had them doing kind of that pike. But then you also had them do like a rotation like getting their shoulder blades like rotating, and I was like, oh, that that looks so good, cause you’re stabilizing with the shoulders, you’re getting the the shoulder blades moving, you’re rotating that thoracic spine, but again you’re on your feet still, you’re, you’re in a plank position, so you’re having to hold everything still and and taught, and you’re teaching them how to just separate that upper, upper torso. Really get in the serratus, Like I well. 0:46:26 – Jeff FlaggI call it the riblets, but the riblets. 0:46:29 – Jeff PelizzaroI like it. 0:46:30 – Jeff FlaggAnd yeah, it’s just it’s. It’s kind of you know you hold that it’s. It’s forcing you to sort of keep the hips up, cause a lot of times it’s that feel of it. It’s kind of you’re in a you know a horizontal plank position. But I still like to think of it as, like you’re, you’re engaged with the grounds, like your, your feet are active, like holding yourself up and contributing to that, like a lot of times people get in those slings and the back sort of sags, and so it’s like it’s. It’s just a you know you get the feel of it and it’s like that it’s. It’s you know then go ahead and do you know 50, 100, 200 reps of it, you know good luck, yeah. 0:47:09 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m going to come. I’m going to come. 0:47:10 – Jeff FlaggIt’s miserable and awesome at the same time. Well, I’m going to bring some of my toys. 0:47:16 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s set it up. We’ll definitely do it. We’ll get to have a little 18STRONG seminar here from with Jeff Flagg. That’d be, that’d be awesome. So you’re down at the Bears Club now in Jupiter, right? When did, when did you shift down to there and tell us a little bit about what’s going on? I mean, you’ve got a new training program coming in. That was 2018. 0:47:32 – Jeff FlaggI was in Chicago, I think, the last time I talked to you. I don’t know how I have to get one. The last time was long yeah. Episode episode 170. And where we? What is this? 0:47:42 – Jeff Pelizzaro This is 365. Full year, yeah, yeah. 0:47:51 – Jeff FlaggSo I was. I got the opportunity to come down here and I mean it’s just, it’s it’s not very lucky to be here. It’s pretty fun. Our members are great. I mean just to you know, again, it’s like kind of you got to pin yourself to like you know I’ll be in there working with somebody and Jack walks through like it’s kind of it’s like, you know, get to pick his brain on you know golf courses or yeah, it’s, it’s. It’s it’s pretty wild but they give like membership is great, you know it’s out for it. It’s it’s, you know, not bad this time of year and I don’t want to rub it in, but yeah and and kind of you know it’s taken me longer than it should, but I probably talked about it last time I was on this, but I getting finally getting an online program up and running, launching that in the next short little bit, hopefully. And yeah, it’s just kind of how I guess kind of how I framed it was you know what no-transcript If I was to work, if somebody’s gonna walk off the street right and and and work with me, and kind of all the things that I look at. Kind of like we talked about. It’s like what, what can, what can I do to sort of, you know, coach that and and Push that like what, what? What would be the ideal scenario? It’s like, hey, they came in and like they’ve done all these things are good. All these movements like Okay, like now we can roll, like so it’s like it’s. It’s again, it’s my mind online program. I’m sure you can relate like I can think of every way people do it wrong. I can think of all the things. I think of all that if somebody’s got a bum shoulder, like all right, you gotta change this, tweak this, like the in-person, the art of it in person, you sort of got it back off of that a little bit. But but yeah, hopefully, hopefully, people like it. It’s again a lot of the movements. Again, at the end of the day it’s like kind of Kind of a tagline. But you know you’re just moving different, right, like you got to move different. Like you know kind of Setting it up where it’s simple again, everybody’s got cables at their gym, everybody’s got free weights. Like if you don’t have cables, use bands. Like kind of giving those solutions to Get your body. It get sort of your mind wrapped around training differently and loading the body differently and just did not only get, obviously, build strength for what you’re doing, but given that confidence and you know it, that bleed over into, you know, into your golf game, into your, into regular life, it’s like it’s it’s sort of, you know again, kind of wrapping it all up when you don’t have any gaps, you don’t have any weak links like that’s. That’s that’s my goal for, for this. So, you know, can kind of I kind of positioned it as, like you know, you know, you know it can be standalone, it can be, if you love, you know, power cleaning and and barbell benching, you can add this to what you’re doing and and Round out, round out everything. So you have tried to make it as like, versatile as possible, just because I think it’s just, it’s valuable ways to load the body and and I’ve had success with it and hopefully more people can, can try it and and you know I don’t know if say, enjoy it, but you enjoy it when you’re done, yeah. 0:51:05 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, well, definitely let us know when it. When is the launch officially to be? Next to heaven day for it? 0:51:11 – Jeff FlaggI believe I got a double check, but hopefully at the see Masters at the latest, I would say. So that’s, that’s that’s. 0:51:21 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s. That’s at the latest. Yeah, it’s a good launch time. 0:51:24 – Jeff FlaggSo, uh, yeah, and it’s, and it’s kind of we get it sort of designed in a way like from a sustainability perspective. It’s like it doesn’t have to be all season, right. And it’s another sort of kind of viewpoint on it that I have is like you know, if it’s important, you got to do it consistently and it’s not just like I’m sure you see that a lot. It’s like I want to come in and work out for the next three months when it’s snowing and then when it’s golf time, I’ll see you. 0:51:47 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ll see you in October, november, you know, and it’s like that’s not no, no, you, usually it’s, usually it’s golf, golf’s coming in two weeks. Like what can we do in these next two weeks, because I haven’t done anything all winter. 0:51:59 – Jeff FlaggYeah, so it’s like it’s it’s designed to, to be like whether it’s the middle of the season. It’s like you can plug it right in and it’s not gonna you know it’s, you should feel like you could go hit balls when you’re done, but you can also train hard and that’s those are kind of the two big rocks that I it’s not interfering with the skill at all, so, um, trying to Really be kind of as precise as I can with you know, being able to implement at any point, um and for again, as for as many people as possible, like I said, I’ve sort of stress tested it from, you know, 15 years old, 80 years old, pro golfers, club golfers, kind of everything in between. So, um, so yeah, so again, I hope I hope people like it and I hope, uh, hope, it’s received well, hopefully, um, you know we can, we can get people moving different. 0:52:57 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. You know it’s, it’s tough and I don’t know that the the general public understands how tough it can be to create a program like that. For Because golf is such a broad spectrum, like you just said, you know high schoolers up to 80, plus your old golfers and and as a coach, and you can even hear it when you’re talking about. It’s like You’re going through all those little things like, oh, but I don’t want to do this because this you know, because it could influence this person or that person. So it’s tough. So kudos to you for for putting together a family poem trigger because, um, it’s a lot of it’s a lot of work behind the scenes that people don’t, yeah, I mean you, you know better than anybody. 0:53:34 – Jeff FlaggSo, um, so yeah, I mean it’s like, again, it’s, it’s, yeah, and I think one thing that I ran into is like there’s a, there’s a freedom to Kind of you know, using a cable machine. It’s like it’s, it’s the the, the movement is, is free, but you have to sort of impose, sort of the the, the barriers yourself. Right, you got to, you got to load in that front leg and you can’t let it pull you around. You got to control your spine angle. You can’t like, you know, if you’re pulling or pushing you can’t be like wobbling all over the place. So it’s like it’s, it’s sort of it’s there’s, there’s freedom in it, which again, on the other hand, is like you can do a lot wrong, um, but but I think, I’ve tried to Distilled it down, um, and so hopefully presented it in a way that is going to. You know, it’s easy to. I kind of one of the taglines or I just find myself saying it a lot with people in person is it’s intuitive once you get it. It’s kind of an oxymoron, but it’s like. It’s like yeah, it’s like, yeah, you feed here, you just dance here, you hold it like this, then it’s like then, when they start moving, it’s like, oh, okay, like I, it feels right. 0:54:45 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know, it’s not like you have to Stay braced up or it’s like a really strict form, so it’s like there’s always wiggle room in gray area, um, but uh, yeah, it’s intuitive once you get it, awesome before, before I forget to ask you we’re gonna jump into these last questions here but where, where will people be able to go get it, or what’s the best place to kind of keep track of of you and find you and so, um, instagram, probably because you’re you know. 0:55:10 – Jeff FlaggNow you’re watching me like a hawk, so now I gotta. I gotta, I gotta post consistently now at your, at your advice so, yeah, instagram, and then it’s gonna be Flagg performancecom, real, original, but yeah, and then you get just kind of launch and get it out there and then you know, hopefully it grows and and you know iterations of it and you know, kind of have in my mind I want it to be as as high touch as possible. Um so, um, you know, I got it set up in a way where, like people can give their feedback and like they can, yeah, it’s almost like you know, I’m ideally I’m coaching them, um, remotely. So because it’s again there’s I I love the, the coaching part of it and seeing it, that ability to open up for people, like that’s that’s sort of why I’m doing this. So, to make sure that, like you know, it’s even to the, to the yeah, I even got something built in there. We’re like, yeah, you kind of Let me know what Stuff you’re working on your sling, if you want to put swing video in there too. It’s like a sort of like I kind of had those options because it’s just like I just want to make the gym is like Seamless as possible, like your goal is it’s to be a better golfer and and again, at, like the gym should, you know, be pushing you in that direction. So, um, so, yeah, yeah, that’s where, that’s where. That’s that’s my story. I’m sick of doing. 0:56:42 – Jeff PelizzaroVery cool. All right, my friend, we’re gonna close up. I know we asked you these on episode one seven. 0:56:46 – Jeff FlaggYeah, some. Of them. 0:56:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSome of them are a little bit changing difference. Yeah so, uh, so let’s have some fun with it. First of all, caddy shacker happy, go more. 0:56:54 – Jeff FlaggI mean I got a stick of caddy shack. I think that’s my. That’s just so good, so good. Yeah one of the best ever. 0:57:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat would your? What’s your walk-up song to the first I got? 0:57:06 – Jeff Flagga question on this. So are you talking like a competitive rounds, or like a like a, like a round buddies, like you’re like a sort of hanging out? 0:57:15 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t want to both now, now that you maybe specify Well. 0:57:18 – Jeff FlaggI got, I think, the one like, if it’s it’s competitive, I mean I don’t want to be that guy that hard though that like has a bunch of like yeah, because I’m like I’m like a you know gym, like rap guy, like you know, sort of like it’s you want to have a little bit of you know something with swag to like put you, you know, to get you, you get them right mindset. But it’s also, I think, what I said last time, my last year baseball call me baby, call me babies, like it’s like yeah, oh, like this big guy’s coming to play and like Call me baby, just a banger anyway. So I got the timeless banger. So I think I might have just stick with that. I looked it up and I’m like dude, I’m wondering if you’re gonna change it. This is all the opponent, all right. Oh, it’s like. 0:58:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI like it. 0:58:04 – Jeff FlaggSix, six monster coming in, call me baby. 0:58:07 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, the crowd loves it. The crowd loves it. All right, and if, if you’re just, if you’re just hanging with your boys, oh, man um. 0:58:17 – Jeff FlaggYou know, like Country’s pretty chill, like you know, you know, let’s say, rap’s not really appropriate for golf course. Um, you know, get, uh, you know I like Eric church, um, yeah, probably something along those lines. Like country kind of chill, like nothing too too too crazy, because we’re not, we’re not Trying to be crazy, we’re just just having fun. But yeah, um, perfect, yeah, that’s what I’m going with. 0:58:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’ll have to come on our Nashville trip next year. You have to get right in. All right, is there a book that you like to recommend to people, something that has meant a lot to you Golf wise, fitness, wise, life wise that you have, uh, have like to recommend, or even given it is a gift, to somebody else? 0:59:01 – Jeff FlaggOne that I liked, um, that I’ve sort of recommended to some people like young players and stuff. It’s funny because the the title almost sort of doesn’t ruin it but it sort of gives it. It sort of um, framed it for what it is is, uh, it takes what it takes. I don’t know if you, if you’ve come across that, um, the guy, I think the guy in the last couple years actually Passed away Trevor boad, it was his name Um, it’s like a performance coach For, like any Russell Wilson like wrote the the forward or whatever. But it’s like and I know nix saven has a blurb in it, I think, or has referenced it, and and and it’s you know, it’s basically like kind of talking to guys you know, young pros and stuff. It’s like you know. It’s like I think there’s a quote of saven, you know, I guess kind of talking along the lines of you know, you, you think you have options, Like if you want to be good or great at something, like you think you have all these options, all these things to do. It’s like the you. It takes what it takes, like it’s kind of this, the simplicity of it, it’s pretty uh, it’s pretty incredible, but it’s you look at the greats and you look at what all they did and it’s like anybody in any realm. It’s like it’s it’s sort of laid out for you and it’s like you can’t, especially golf, I mean. It’s like you know, setting expectations. It’s such a big part of it. It’s like you want to be here. There’s people that have been there before. You can see what they’ve done and you’re not willing to do that, like, okay, but that’s what it takes, like it takes what it takes. Again, they can be applied any, any role life. I mean it’s talking about um, there’s another book that I from him that I haven’t read, but it the concept is in this book too. It’s like give, like stinking neutral, you know not. 1:00:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, getting in neutral, yeah. 1:00:51 – Jeff FlaggNot, you know, bad or good, high or low, it’s just, it’s neutral. Being able to assess sort of where you’re at and what you’re doing, where to go, like that’s going to give you the best chance. So, um, yeah, that’s like I find that I’ve I’ve referenced that to people a few times. I got it on the bookshelf somewhere, but uh, yeah, yeah, that’s a good one. 1:01:14 – Jeff PelizzaroCool, all right. Who’s your dream celebrity? For some these days, you could pick four guys. 1:01:21 – Jeff FlaggWe’ll give you four, three or four, whatever you want. Let’s see, I was thinking about this and like, obviously it’s like ideal for some. I got a. I got a almost three year old now, so it’s like he’s definitely going to be in it with me. But if you’re talking celebrity and like historical, like why don’t we get what? Do we think? We got Tiger Jack and what’s another? I guess one more all time great. We talking Hogan, because we’re arguing. Everybody argues about all the different generations. Right, it’s like put them all together, put them in a group. 1:02:00 – Jeff PelizzaroPut them in the prime. 1:02:01 – Jeff FlaggYou know, I mean, jack, it’s a long, and like do it out and I’ll just watch. I’ll just keep the clubs in the cart, like I don’t even need to play and just to watch, just get all the arguments. It’s like the LeBron MJ, like let’s just have a play and see, see the best of the best and kind of see who comes out on top. It’s like that would be if I had to get a magic lantern. That would be my group. 1:02:31 – Jeff PelizzaroI like that one. What are they Hogan, snead? All right If we probably I throw Hogan in the mix, yeah, throw maybe Snead in there. I think those are probably the. I’d say Hogan, tiger, jack, if I had to pick three, three dudes there, yeah For sure, all right If we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up ready to go. I’m like, jeff, we’re going wherever you want to go. What’s the bucket list course that we’re going to today? 1:03:06 – Jeff FlaggI’m, I guess, pulled towards like terrain or like parts of the world that I’ve like, I’ve never been like or like you know, I’m never been abandoned. I’ve heard band is amazing. I just saw recently that new course. There’s a new course, see, lucia. Like on the ocean, like that one’s pretty sick, looks sick. Yeah, I mean, there’s just so much like, I guess, to me I’m like a big like, I guess nature guys, not nature guy, but like you know it, if it’s, if it’s a golf course sort of tucked in the terrain of mountains or ocean, or like that’s just like that, that’s like, that’s it for me, like any, any and all of those, everybody stops you want to make, I’m good. As long as it’s on your tab, we’re good. 1:03:59 – Jeff PelizzaroI dig it, I like it. What’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? 1:04:07 – Jeff FlaggProbably have to say play golf, not golf swing. You know we can. We tend to get super technical in our, in our, in our profession and you know when, when you think about you know, I was sort of self-taught grown up so like being able to just think it back and like what was I doing? I was just like hitting wiffleballs in my front yard, just like trying to hit it over that tree and trying to hit it around the house, like you know, and it’s like I wasn’t been care where I was the top, like I didn’t care what my takeaway looked like, and it’s like that could just that could just like overpower us sometimes and when we work on it and we want to get better, but it’s just like go out there again, you’re in a, you’re in a beautiful, keep the property, like don’t just like go play golf, go hit shots. 1:04:57 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine like me when I was a kid you know you, especially being a baseball player like just going on pretending like you were a different guy at the plate, you know, and like you could, you could mimic different swings and and it’s like why do we not do that with golf, where it’s just like have some fun with it, you know? I mean, yeah, there’s technical things that are you know better ways to swing, but like being able to go and just and just act like you’re Andre Dawson at the plate, you know, and you got his high, you know. King of Virginia. 1:05:28 – Jeff FlaggLike King of Virginia, like I remember that, and it’s just like, yeah, what are we doing? I have to get like I mean, I love, like the old, like, and I never really was kind of into golf, like you know or watch Seviply, but like to watch, like the, the short game, like the, the, the, the. There’s like hitting flop shots with a four iron and, like you know, curve it like bubble Watson. Now he hits ball and it’s just like, yeah, you can be the robot or attempt to be the robot. It’s like, and that may work for a select few, but it’s like have fun, try to hit it over that tree, like, try to. You know, it’s just hit shots and I feel like the enjoyment of the game, like it’s a game at the end of the day. So, so, yeah, just go go play. 1:06:19 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, last one what’s a social media account that you’ve kind of been into lately that you think the 18STRONG crew should go to check out? 1:06:28 – Jeff FlaggAnd I actually looked at this earlier and I think you had him on early, early on. I followed him for a little bit. now that Austin Einhorn oh yeah your notes, I think, is how you’d say. He’s like, hey, it’s like his, his posts and his blog and things like that. It’s like it sort of makes you think it sort of has a little bit of an outside view of things, like you know, and it’s like kind of doesn’t look traditional. But, like you know, it’s like you get results and it’s it’s again sort of a different lens, like you were talking about earlier, like looking at things and that’s a good one. What else? Oh, I mean it’s like I got another guy. I met him at a photo shoot. He’s great. Christian Hafer is his name. He’s a. I get the 18STRONG crew we’re all golf nuts, right. So like he’s like a. He’s a photographer that works a lot of tour events and goes around all these places and it’s like that he’s part of the the golfers journal. So he does a lot of the photography for that, and it’s like man, like some of the like swing videos he gets, and it’s like I get the art of golf and that like he’s really showcasing like the, the, the properties and the, the, the, the holes, and just looking at it from different angles, and it’s like the, the art of it, and it’s like, yeah, I feel like, if I’m not like an architecture nerd by any means, but I’m, I’m learning, but like it’s just, I’m just cool, like a cool account to follow, like he’s the man, so great dude too. So that’d be my two. 1:08:06 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s one of those things that I wish I had, just that, that artistic view, the ability to use a camera, like some of those guys do video and and just still pictures. It’s just they make things look so great and cool. Dude, you know, I’m trying to. 1:08:18 – Jeff FlaggI’m wracking my brain, putting my pictures in the black and white, like that’s all I got. That’s the extent of my photography knowledge, so, so, yeah, I would say I’d learn a few tips from him, but I got no chance, so I’ll leave it. I’ll leave it to the professionals. Yeah, same here. 1:08:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my man. Well, it was great catching up with you. It’s great to have you on. I can’t wait to see the program that you put out I know it’s going to be great and to see all your Instagram posts that are that are coming up all those black and whites. But congrats on everything you’re doing. Sounds like things are going really well down there, and just just keep it up, thank you, man, thank you for helping me. 1:08:54 – Jeff FlaggThis is, this is always fun. Look forward to doing it again and again. Like all, congrats on all your, your success too. I mean 365. That’s, that’s a lot. That’s a lot. That’s a lot of episodes. That’s a lot of episodes, it’s a lot, it’s a lot. 1:09:09 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd we’re just getting started, baby, just getting started. Thanks, thanks, jeff. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. Thanks again, we’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Jeff Lovecchio (Retired Prof Hockey Player, Performance Coach)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 363Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join me as I welcome Jeff Lovecchio, a retired professional hockey player turned esteemed performance enhancement coach, to share a wealth of knowledge that transcends the ice and influences athletes from various sports, including golf. Jeff’s unique insights into the intricacies of hockey training, which includes balancing gym routines with the demands of ice play, offer invaluable advice for avoiding overuse injuries and keeping the main sport in sharp focus. We also explore the rigorous life of professional athletes, delving into their schedules and travel, and how these factors affect their training and overall performance. Listen in as Jeff recounts his personal journey from a promising young hockey talent to a transformative coach, shaped by the trials of a severe concussion and the consequential shift in his playing style. His story of resilience, determination, and the transition to coaching offers a compelling narrative that emphasizes the role of mentorship in athletic development. Jeff’s approach to training, which revolutionized traditional methods, underscores the need for functional, sport-specific regimens that improve balance and strength directly related to performance on the ice. Wrapping up our conversation, Jeff and I tackle the broader topics of goal setting, self-talk, and the importance of fostering a positive mindset. We discuss how defining clear objectives and engaging in positive affirmations can drive success, both in sports and life. Moreover, Jeff’s mantra “give more, be more,” which he promotes through his social media and website, invites us to consider the profound impact of generosity on personal growth. Whether you’re an athlete looking to enhance your game or someone seeking motivation and inspiration, this episode offers a wealth of strategies and stories that will leave you energized and ready to tackle your goals. Main Topics (00:02) Performance Enhancement and Mentoring for Athletes Retired hockey player Jeff Lovecchio shares expertise in fitness, nutrition, and recovery for athletes, discussing the challenges and demands of professional sports. (07:32) Hockey Career and Missed Opportunities A professional athlete’s journey from playing hockey overseas to revolutionizing training methods, his early start in hockey, and his interest in fitness. (11:50) Building as a Coach After Injuries A hockey player overcomes a severe concussion to continue his career, adapting his playing style and becoming a successful coach. (17:33) Importance of Athletic Training and Health Nature’s lessons in sports: discipline, self-investment, parental support, and holistic fitness for all ages. (28:35) Revamping Training for Hockey Performance An athlete’s journey to improve on-ice performance through functional training, including unilateral exercises, visual and vestibular work, and spatial awareness. (39:00) Improve Sports Skills and Find Motivation Skill and technique, position-specific power development, individualized coaching, and sustainable fitness routines for New Year’s resolutions. (43:02) Goal Setting and Self-Talk Importance Reverse engineer goals, establish a strong ‘why’, use daily affirmations, and practice positive self-talk for success. (48:42) Hockey Career, Leadership, Starting Company A hockey player’s journey, commitment, community support, personal growth through hardship, and transition to entrepreneurship. (52:50) Give More, Be More Adopting the mantra “give more, be more” and promoting it through personal and professional endeavors, emphasizing the importance of positive contributions and meaningful connections in a society that is becoming increasingly disconnected. (01:01:04) The Importance of Reading and Goals Mindset, books like “The Secret” and “Relentless Solution Focus,” dream golf and hockey foursomes, and social media recommendations for personal development. Follow Jeff Lovecchio Instagram: @jefflovecchio Website: GMBM Links Mentioned The Secret Book Relentless Focus Solution Book Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode number 363 with Jeff Lovecchio, retired professional hockey player and performance enhancement coach. Hey, what’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that every golfer deserves to play better, longer. This episode is going to be a great one for you. We have Jeff Lovecchio on. He’s a retired professional hockey player and I know that sounds a little strange to have a hockey player come on a golf podcast, but, as you’re going to see, with Jeff, he’s much more than just a hockey fitness coach. He is a mental game coach. He is a mentor to a lot of the athletes that he works with, and it’s all about not just the fitness side but the nutrition, the recovery, the mobility, the stability, working on all of the different pieces of the game to train more like an athlete, whether you’re a hockey player, whether you’re a CEO or whether you’re just somebody looking to train and become the best version of yourself in the gym and outside of the gym. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with Jeff. We share a lot of the same philosophies when it comes to training and his Instagram account has been very influential in some of the things that we do at 18STRONG and the way that we train, the way we work on mobility and the way we work on getting the golfers moving the way we want. So stay tuned. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview,…Jeff Lovecchio. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast, man. 0:02:19 – Jeff LovecchioHappy to be here. This gym, this office, everything’s very, very cool. We’re excited. 0:02:24 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we’re slowly but surely getting the studio set up and just kind of getting it a little fancy here. Yeah, it’s fancy. 0:02:29 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s super clean. Man, I love it here. Well, it’s kind of brand new. Yeah, everything’s dope, don’t stop, you might fall off the wall. 0:02:37 – Jeff PelizzaroIt looks awesome. I love it. So it sounds like you got a bunch of hockey guys back in town for the winter break and everything, so you’re running like a madman, right now. 0:02:44 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, yeah, guys are home. I got some guys that are home for a week, some of them are home for three days, some of them are home for two weeks, kind of depending on the school or the team if they’re playing juniors. So just trying to get everybody in and feeling good so they go back to their second half confident and ready to go. 0:02:59 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what does that look like in the gym right now? Is it like teams coming in? What’s the flow like over there? 0:03:06 – Jeff LovecchioBasically it’s just like my. I have a couple of different like businesses, I guess within my own business it’s like subheadings, I guess, I would say. But these are all like my off-season guys. They’re the guys who in the off-season for anywhere from four to six months, depending on what league and when they get home. They’re with me four days a week and we go to battle every single day and that’s where in the off-season, you really get your body like not only healthy, but like you try to make performance gains and stuff like that. You work on your skills on the ice. I only do off the ice now because I’m in there all day. Excuse me, but during Christmas break hockey’s kind of it’s kind of crazy, like it’s not like other sports. I was just explaining this to at the doctor’s office. I was just at like, if you play golf, football, basketball, lacrosse, any of these other sports, you train on ground, you play on ground, yeah, and hockey you train on ground, you play on ice. Walking and skating are not the same. Running and skating are not the same. So, like in season, when they’re doing all this athletic stuff on the ice, I actually peel back like the athleticism in the gym because I want the main thing to be the main thing. I don’t want to ever take away from the main thing. Also, you know these guys who play hockey now in juniors you’re playing so many games, they practice so much. So I also have to think about, like, what empty buckets are they not hitting? I want to fill up those empty buckets and I don’t want to overflow. The buckets are already getting More strength, you know, like prehab mobility core, making sure they’re healthy, and more GPP. Honestly, it’s way more general because what they’re doing out there is so specific. I don’t want to double up on the specific and then create overuse, injuries or anything like that, you know. 0:04:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, that’s a good point. We see that a lot with the golfers too. Like golfers, all they’re doing rotation all day long, right, and so when they go in the gym a lot of people think, oh, I got to rotate, I got to rotate. It’s like no, actually you need to do the other stuff you get stronger and that makes a ton of sense that they got to come in and they got to kind of reset and do a lot of the things that they’re not getting when they’re playing. What does the schedule look like, because you’re a former professional hockey player, when you guys are traveling or when you were traveling, what does that look like? And what’s it look like for these guys as far as, like, practice time, what are they doing workout wise, on the ice or on the road. 0:05:27 – Jeff LovecchioIt really depends on the organization and if they and pro is so much different than college and everything up to pro is very structured for everyone on the team. For the most part you get to pro and you know I’ve been retired, for this is my seventh year being retired at. My last year was 17, 18. But, like, when I got to pro it was like pretty much you’re on your own, like the game you get into a city practice tomorrow is at 10am, the game’s at seven. You got to be at the rink at nine and five and then after that I do do whatever you want. Really. Yeah, you know you have to work out stuff, especially at the higher levels, right, some teams will do some like workout stuff on the road. It’s not a lot of workout stuff, but now the NHL signed a deal with anchor anchor two years ago, so every NHL away locker room has to have two of those. So I would work out after games because, like, you can only get so much working out during the week because games are kind of like all over the place. So after a game, if you don’t have a game the next day, a lot of guys will do like something like bands or body weight If they’re on the road. I always had like a bag inside my hockey bag with bands and sliders and just so I could rip out like 12 minutes and then I looked at it as okay, like I just played the game. I do the workout immediately after, when all that’s only one thing my body has to recover from, instead of waking up on an off day and then going in and training. Well, now it’s like recover from this, I’m tired. I’m tired of recover from this. So I try to stack them whenever I could. So I think pro hockey guys work out in the week when it makes sense and then, after the last game of the weekend or whatever, a bunch of guys will put in at least a little bit of work. 0:07:11 – Jeff PelizzaroSo did I hear that when you were playing pro hockey, you started training your teammates. 0:07:17 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, oh yeah, man. I became the unofficial strength coach on almost every team I played on in Europe. So I played three years in the US. I had a year I was injured. I missed a whole first year of my NHL contract with a concussion. Well, we’ll get to that. Yeah, yeah, that was awful. And then I went overseas and so after my third year pro, the summer going into my fourth year, I started my training company here in St Louis and then I was already training myself. I trained myself my whole pro career and I just started training a couple of kids and then all the teams in Europe European people probably won’t like to hear this, but at least every team I played on and all the guys I played with that were on the national teams of the countries I played in. Their training was so far behind, like what I think, where it should be, very like 1980s, like kind of a mixture between powerlifting and bodybuilding. It’s like you don’t do that, you know, like that’s really not helping that. So guys would see me and I’d win testing. Everywhere I went, it always isn’t the best shape I had to be. I wasn’t skilled enough not to so like I had to be, or else I would have been there. And then they you know I don’t like what we’re doing, I’ll work out of Vex. And then all of a sudden, everybody’s working out with me and then the coach is like, all right, you just write the workout, so I just started. And then I’d become friends with the strain coaches and talk to them about my philosophies. We go back and forth. I was never like pushing it on them, but it was always. It always turned out like a month in All right, we’re going to do what Vex is doing. 0:08:50 – Jeff PelizzaroSo give me, give us a little background. I mean, I know your story but for the people listening watching so you’d left home at like fit age 15 to go, and that’s kind of how hockey is right. Yeah, I mean you’re probably surprised. Did you ever think you’d be on a golf podcast, by the way? 0:09:05 – Jeff LovecchioNo, obviously because I’ve never golfed, I’ve never done a full round of golf and I’ve only hit the ball a few times. And funny, now I look back, I wish I would have learned it because I know that it would have helped me be a better athlete. And the mental side of golf I think that helps any human being at anything they want to do. You hit a crappy shot. You can’t let that crappy shot affect you. You’ve got to calm down, re-center, focus up, hit the next shot, make sure that’s good. The past is the past. You can’t change that. That would have helped me immensely in my sports psychology journey of being a pro athlete. So I wish I would have. But we would leave the gym when I was training in like juniors and college, even pro, and like all the guys were training with me, whatever, like they’d go golf and I’d either do more in the gym or I would be like I just sweat for three hours. I’m going to go take a nap, you’re going to go sit outside at 100 degree weather in St Louis. But looking back, I wish I would have learned. 0:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, yeah, because several of the guys like Wides, I know like those guys they go work out in the summertime, go work out, go play golf and they’re all sticks too. 0:10:07 – Jeff LovecchioThey’re all good. Wides is good. Freddie Roushoff I got a guy who’s like 6’7, 240 and I think he’s almost a scratch golfer. 0:10:15 – Jeff PelizzaroOh my gosh. 0:10:17 – Jeff LovecchioI’m going to go for another really good golfer. A lot of hockey players are good golfers, probably because the swing is very similar, where the power is coming from and things like that. I think, yeah, I wish I would have golfed man, but I’m going to get into it. 0:10:29 – Jeff PelizzaroI might be hitting you up for lessons. We’re going to test that swing out today a little. You saw the pit over there, oh God it’s going to be terrible. So back to your start. You left home at 15, went to Chicago. I went to Chicago to play midgets. 0:10:45 – Jeff LovecchioThat’s before junior. So for anybody who doesn’t know, basically to get a scholarship to play hockey, you go from amateur hockey to junior hockey, which is going to be probably not in your hometown I mean, there are some people who play in their hometown and then you get your scholarship out of there to then go to college. So like football, baseball, basketball, golf, it’s like high school into college. A lot of players in hockey have to take one or two gap years where they’re playing this junior hockey before they get to college, and I had. So I went to Chicago to play midget hockey when I was 15 and 16, but it was one year, and then I went and played in the USHL in Omaha, nebraska, for three years before I got my scholarship to Western Michigan. 0:11:26 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then so the pro career comes in three years at Western Michigan right, and then, drafted by the Bruins, I signed with them as a free agent. 0:11:34 – Jeff LovecchioSo I wasn’t drafted. So I was able to sign with any team in the NHL if they wanted me. Obviously I had a really, really good sophomore year in college and a lot of teams in the NHL wanted to sign me. I decided to stay one more year and then I wound up signing with the Bruins and left school. 0:11:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, so tell us a little bit about what happened that first year. Sounds like you’ve had multiple injuries issues. So tell us a little bit about that story, because I think that really leads into, in my personal opinion, just watching you from afar, into like, really what has helped build you, into the person, the coach that you are today? 0:12:09 – Jeff LovecchioYeah. So the way that it works for almost every guy who signs in the NHL from college, almost all those guys. Now some guys will go straight to the NHL for some games. I have a couple who have done that of my clients. But usually they put you in the AHL for the rest of that season to get your feet wet, to learn what Pearl Hockey’s like, just kind of get introduced into the systems so that you’re ready to go for the first real year of your contract the next year. And so I did that and because I was at Western and we didn’t have a good year that year, we were bounced into the playoffs right away. I signed with the Bruins and I was on a plane two days later. I went to Boston, got testing, done all that, signed my contract, go down to Providence, rhode Island, which is only like 45 minute drive, and I finished the season there. And I was there for like three or four months because we had the best team in the AHL ever at that point. They was the most winningest team in the regular season ever and I got to play a pretty, pretty significant role as a new guy coming up and I did really well and they’re like you know, I really like you. You know you’re going to play in the NHL one day, all this stuff and I go home in the summer to start my training and I just had like a freak accident and like practice basically was skating full speed, I went to stop. There were bubbles all over the ice because this crappy ice rink in town the ceiling dripped and there’s these like massive bubbles and I don’t. I remember vaguely being on the ice that morning and being like guys, we got to like cut the bubbles out so we don’t hit them and I guess I hit one going full speed head first of the boards, unconscious. I lost, I lost over 12 hours on my memory that I have nothing, zero memory, almost zero memory whatsoever from um. I lost memory from the day before and uh, so that happened like end of June I want to say it was mid, mid June, maybe beginning of July and I didn’t play a real game in hockey again until a full year. And then, like end of September the following year, yeah, I thought I was never going to play again. You know I could have taken insurance payout that was like really high for you know, just really not even playing yet and they gave me 10 games to decide. Like you get, you can play nine games, but if you play your 10th game this is the insurance company. You’ll never be covered for concussions again and you obviously won’t get this payout. If you take the payout, you can never play pro hockey again. Um, and that’s a really tough decision after sitting You’re how old at this time I was, I was probably 23. And so, and it was like 400, 450 grand, tax free, like into your bank account and uh, really hard decision, just as far as I haven’t worked out. Like for eight months six to eight months I didn’t work out. I Lost all my muscle mass because I was not eating, because I was worried about getting fat, and then if I came back it would take longer for me if I gained a bunch of weight, just like all this stuff and and but me, who I am. I remember that the insurance guy who called actually was a former NHL player Captain, one of my pro clients, later on, mm-hmm in my business because his dad’s played in for the Blues. He’s the one who called me and I remember where I was in the rink and he’s like okay, jeff, like you got a game tonight with the Bruins, you’ve got nine more games, or eight more games. If you play the tenth game, you’ll not be covered. If you want to retire now, we’ll give you this money. Blah, blah, blah. And before even finish a sentence, I was like nope, I’m trying. And he’s like you don’t want to ask your doctors your pain? Nope, you want to ask your pet no agent? Nope, I’m trying and work my whole life not to try. Yeah, and although my career was different than it would have been, because, like it was always in my head, I was always thinking about it, I had to play just slightly differently of a game because I used to play kind of recklessly and kind of just like Do whatever I had to. I had to kind of change my style, but it did allow me to get paid to play hockey all over the world for nine more years after that and I am who I am today because of that and I’m a better coach because I played in different countries and had to get around cultural, language barriers, ideological barriers and so all of that stuff that I that I Went through after because of that is why I’m where I am, where I am today, why I am the coach I am today, why I approach things from a different lens maybe than other people. So you know, I always say to people if you shoot for the stars and you land on the moon, it’s a pretty good place to be. Yeah, and I think that’s kind of what happened to me. 0:16:38 – Jeff PelizzaroEverybody that. So you know you’re here in St Louis, I’m here in St Louis and we have several mutual friends and every this is the first time we’ve ever met sat down with each other. But everybody that I’ve talked to you has said, like Jeff just comes in and he’s just like a force to be reckoned with. Like his Attitude, his mentality is different than any coach you’ve ever worked with and and I think that that just speaks to you know, like the experiences that you’ve had and the way that you train and what I’ve seen you do online it’s really, really impressive to see how you work with not just the pro athletes but the kids too. So I want to talk a little bit about the, the youth hockey players that you work with and Just the mentality you have going in working with them, because I know it’s about more than just their fitness to you. It’s about way, way more and so give us a little bit of your philosophy. I love, I want to get into GM BM, what that means, yep, so if you could just kind of start about you know, when you start working with the kids and the mindset mentality you start working. 0:17:33 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I mean first and foremost was and I don’t like saying this to people because I it sounds discouraging like the amount of athletes that play hockey and probably all sports, especially ones where there’s more people playing, the odds of you getting a scholarship are extremely low. The odds of you going pro in any sport are Astronomically even lower than that, even right and so and I don’t like saying that to discourage people because, like I played pro hockey, I train all these guys in st Louis that have played pro hockey and stuff like that it’s possible. But if we look at numbers, just the way they are, the odds of your son or daughter playing professional sports is very, very low. But the the learning to invest them, learning to invest in themselves through learning to eat right, learning to go to bed on time, discipline, responsibility, pushing yourself to do things you didn’t think you could do, pushing yourself today, knowing that it’s not going to pay off for a week, a month, a year, multiple years, like, yeah, you know when I used to start with young players your nine, ten, eleven yeah, you’re not gonna look like my NHL guys for ten years, yeah, but like, if you do show up every day, we’re making strides, we’re making strides and that delayed gratification and learning how important that is for life after sports. I think it’s massively important for kids to learn all that and it’s not like I’m like hammering them with that stuff, like talking about that in the gym all the time, but I am talking to them about that stuff. Hey, later in life, like I’m so proud of you that you teaching them to go talk to their coach. Yeah, little kids, especially in today’s world I don’t know how golf is with coaching and stuff like that but parents want to step in. They want to talk to the coach. They want. Why is any not in the power play? What can Johnny do? No, no, no. When they’re in their job, when they’re out of college or whatever, you’re not going to their work to talk to their boss. So you’re literally handcuffing them later in life by you doing everything for them. So, like I had a guy yesterday who decommitted to a college because he’s gonna go to maybe a more prestigious one and he asked what can I do it over the phone and I said hey, man, you can. And I know this sucks and I know this is hard, but I promise you you doing this in person right now, at 17 years old, is gonna allow you to do so many things, yeah, in life that are hard for you. Because he was nervous, he was shaking, he didn’t want to do it and I was just like I you can do it over the phone, but I would really really love you to do this in person. Look coach in the eye, shake his hand, that type of thing, because I know what that’s gonna do for him walking into a meeting in College. If the coach is sitting him right now, it’s him going in. You can’t call a college coach If you’re a mom or dad. They’re gonna cut that kid, they’re gonna be like this guy get out of here. Same thing with work later in life. So by me kind of making sure they’re doing all these things that I know are gonna help them both in hockey and in life after hockey, I just want to make sure that, like I’m always focusing on that stuff and then just health for the rest of their life. Our country is embarrassingly overweight, embarrassing obese, embarrassingly obese, embarrassingly Metabolic syndrome. Like we just we’re just so unhealthy. So also, if we can use Sports as a leverage as leverage to get them to learn how to be healthy here, I think we should use that because it will help them there, but also it’s gonna get them into good routines. They’re gonna like fitness, they’re gonna like working out and stuff like that. So I think that’s really important for little kids. My philosophy of little kids is, first and foremost, they have to want to come back Mm-hmm. So for me, I’ve got to make it fun. You know like I can have you do what pro guys do, but pro guys are getting paid a million dollars to be in shape. This little kid is not. So I’m gonna hide a sprint in a game. I’m gonna hide a coordination in a, in a game where they’re playing with their friends they don’t even know that they’re working on all these things and then they want to come back, and if they want to come back, they’re gonna get better results, especially on a long enough timeline. 0:21:26 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re working with the adults, the non professional athletes because you work with a lot of them too but the whole thing is training like an athlete, right? Do you find that sometimes it’s difficult to get those people into that same mindset of like, hey, we’re not just here to lift weights, we’re here to talk about the whole piece of it? 0:21:44 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, it usually like people who Come in the first time and they know people who’ve been in, they’re kind of like, oh, this is gonna be hard or whatever. Because, like, I don’t show we, we lift more weights than anybody. I know my volume is very high. I I do a lot of very high volume days, but it’s not traditional weight lifting. As far as barbell bench press, barbell back squat, barbell deadlift okay, so you’re not doing those, but you’re still lifting a lot of weights. But I don’t show that stuff because a lot of people know about lifting weights. So on social media I show a lot of the other things we do because I literally just want to teach people what I’m doing. That’s working. Hey, try, this is works for 10s. Over 10,000 people I’ve worked with yeah. So like I’m just showing you and if you want to try it, try it, see what how it goes. So I show that stuff over the lifting. So when somebody new comes in and they’re kind of like, yeah, oh, it’s gonna be easy, and then they’re like holy shit. And then I didn’t know I couldn’t do any of these things that to me are very basic fun to like a lateral lunge, mm-hmm. The amount of people that come to me that aren’t athletes and can’t do a lateral lunge to me blows my mind. Yeah, but it’s because they either aren’t Exercising, haven’t been, or they’re in a phone booth with all their training. Is what I call it. Like if you could do all of your Exercises inside of a phone booth, you’re not training for life or to be an athlete on the whole. It doesn’t mean you never do those exercises, as you know, because it’s hard to explain this to people who don’t understand training, right? Mm-hmm, I’m not saying never do any type of deadlift. We trap our deadlift but like we do other things more often than we do that thing, right, you know? You know what? I mean yeah, for sure hard to go into this, unless I like took 20 minutes to explain the philosophy. Yeah, you know, but but. And then as soon as they come in, like they enjoy it, they have fun. They’re sore in places that they’re never sore, even if they go work out every day, because they’re just in the same pattern, the same plane of motion, and I get them out of that. 0:23:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, you get a moving in all the different directions and really that’s one of the things that why I wanted to bring you on, because just watching so many of your your videos and we repost a lot of your stuff and like, because all of this applies to Whether you’re a golfer, whether you’re a hockey player, whether you’re a CEO, whether whatever you are, you need to be moving, get your body moving, stay healthy, sleep, recover. One of the one of the pieces I heard you talking about on Jillian’s podcast was the importance of the warm-up. Yeah, and I’ll be honest, like that’s one of things in my own personal workouts. It’s really easy to skip right, like just I just want to go and get it done. You’re busy, you know you run around all day You’re working with clients. It’s like let me just get to the meat and potatoes. Yeah, but could you talk a little bit about the importance of, because this, this goes into not just the golfer’s workout but playing golf itself too, so going to the importance of the war the warm-up, yeah, I mean. 0:24:38 – Jeff LovecchioSo like there’s people out there who are like, have you ever seen a tiger warm-up? You’ve ever seen a lion warm-up? And I’m like, but are you a tiger or a lion? No, you’re not. You is a tiger or a lion eating McDonald’s every day and sitting at a desk like this for 12, nine hours, 10? No, they don’t. They’re walking around all day. So they’re, they’re warm all day, you know, and they’re outside and it’s hot. So like they’re also warm. Their, their core temperature is elevated. So like it’s such a stupid argument, but I think I use my warm-ups as not only is it a warm, it’s like not just, oh, you’re just doing things to warm up. Like you’re warming up, I’m also focusing on prehab. You know, trying to bulletproof the joints obviously can’t bulletproof your joints, but it’s an easy saying to the get the client to understand why we’re doing it and that’s all I care about. So like we’re gonna work on everything around the joints. We’re gonna work on mobility, we’re gonna work on prehab, we’re gonna heat up your internal temperature, we’re gonna get some core exercise going. We’re gonna get your brain and your body talking to each other, because, odds are, you’ve been sitting in the car, sitting at a desk, doing all these things, not like thinking about Movements and how your toe connects to your finger when you’re doing a throw or something like that, right? So it’s like there’s a lot of reasons that I do the warm-ups that we do and and I just everyone who does it is like I always lift more when I do this and I’m like, yes, I know, that’s why we do this you know, Lift more and you feel better, you move better. It’s not like we’re just like doing like a five-minute dynamic and it’s the same thing every time. You know you, just if you’re warm, you heat it up before you beat it up. 0:26:11 – Jeff PelizzaroI don’t know. 0:26:13 – Jeff LovecchioLike you, just gonna feel better, and for me, if somebody feels better, that’s a win, even if nothing physiologically changes. It’s like, okay, I took a placebo of a medicine, but I got healthier because of it, so that placebo worked Right, like it wasn’t a pill, it was a sugar pill. You didn’t know that, but your body did something because you thought you were taking a pill. So part of the warmup is part of that. This is a routine. This is what we do every day. They know what to expect and obviously the main part is internal core temperature going up. Prehab, mobility, stability, work on stability, before that stuff. Also, when you turn on all those proprioceptors running, jumping, agility, lifting you got everything turned on. I know not everything turns off. All right, I use language that the clients understand and that’s all I care about. I know you’re not turning muscles on, but to say that to somebody who doesn’t know what we know, they’re like yeah, I’m turning my muscle on. I get why I’m doing this. It’s all I care about. 0:27:10 – Jeff PelizzaroI can tell that you’ve gotten comments on social media of people saying you’re even turning off. 0:27:15 – Jeff LovecchioYou’re back in the day when I started putting my stuff out there and even, like, I used to have Twitter. I didn’t have Instagram when I played, but I had Twitter and you know. You just see people that say stupid things, don’t understand, or they want to use big words all the time and it’s like man, if your client doesn’t want to be here, if he doesn’t understand what you’re saying, like you’re not accomplishing what you think you are. You’re not getting 100% buy in out of the client and they’re not, because they’re not bought in. They’re not getting everything out of whatever system you’re running. So, like I don’t care, like we need them to be in the place that’s going to get them the most out of this training session and that’s all I care about. That’s it. I don’t care about what you use. That’s it. Are you in the best place? Do you want to come back? Are you giving your all every time? That’s what I care about. 0:27:58 – Jeff PelizzaroWhere did and when did your perception of what training was shift? 0:28:03 – Jeff LovecchioMike Boyle, yeah, mike Boyle. Well, okay, so the first thing that changed my mind. So I started working out at 15 and a half, right before I moved to Chicago for like two months. And then I went to Chicago and I was super weak compared to my cousin who was the same age as me five, four and probably 40 pounds less than me, and I remember he bench pressed at his house 90 pounds, 25s and the bar, and I’d never bench pressed yet and I’m like five, four, my little cousin. I get dropped out of my chair. Oh, my God, what. Okay, I got to start working out. So I got into working out then and from then on I won testing everywhere I went. Everywhere I went I was the most in shape guy. It was my calling card. I also, like I said earlier, I had to be because I wasn’t skilled as all of my teammates, like it wasn’t like a massive drop off, but like I was not good enough to be there if I didn’t do all this other stuff. So that kind of became a calling card of mine. I realized this is my in. You know, other guys aren’t training as hard or as as like intentional, so the more I do this I get like a little bit of separation and so I had to. But after my freshman year the Washington Capital has invited me to their development camp. That’s every summer, their draft picks, their new pros. They have come to camp. It’s usually anywhere from like 40 to 60 guys depending on the team, and I went there and was smoke testing. There was one guy who beat my bench press. I think I was 190 at the time. I think I did like 275, seven times barbell bench press. Hockey players don’t bench a lot, so they did back then a little bit more, but that was a good number, especially at 190. And one guy did beat me from Ohio State but after I go, 275, I think pressure seven times their fifth overall draft pick, nicholas Backstrom. I think he’s still in the NHL today. He won rookie of the year that year and the media was all over this guy, like he’s going to be amazing, and he was. He literally could not bench the warmup weight of 135. And I remember watching him after I went. He was right after me and he went and I’m just like that was embarrassing. And then I was like wait a minute, this guy is going to be in the NHL this year right now and he was the fifth overall pick and he can’t bench my warmup weight but he’s way better hockey than me and there’s roles in hockey and I’m not the same role as him but at its core I’m training the wrong way. Whatever he’s doing is helping him be a better hockey player. And I murdered you, can’t even bench my warmup weight and I’m not anywhere near the NHL yet. Like I was like pffft. And then the strength coach at the camp for the Capitol Zen. His name is Jack Blatherwick. He’s like the father of USA Hockey strength training. He was the 1980 Olympic teams gold medalist strength coach and he’s the one who said to me and this would have been 2000, after my freshman year, 2004 or 2005,. This would have been 2006. He said to me I just started asking him questions as soon as he said something to me. I was like this guy knows what he’s talking about and I’m just asking him everything. I’m standing by him everywhere. I could asking him why, how, when, when should we do this? And he was like Jeff, if you can do all your training in a phone booth, you’re training the wrong way. And I was like what do you mean? And then he like showed me all the exercises and what they look like, and all of them in a phone booth. He’s like, but is hockey like this? Or your feet still are you doing this? And I was like no. And he’s like then, are you training to be a hockey player? And I was like, well, that makes sense because I’m winning all these tests. But when I go on the ice my balance isn’t as good. I’m not the strongest guy on the ice. I’m the strongest guy in the gym, but I’m not the strongest guy in the ice. What’s with the disconnect? But like nothing, I was doing in the gym and you know it doesn’t need to look the same as the ice, but like the way that I was training with barbells, back squats, hang clean snatches, all dead lifts, all that stuff. No matter how good I got at it, I wasn’t getting any better at the ice. And then I read. The next year, after I signed, I bought Mike Boyle’s book advances in functional strength training and I read that book in two days, three days, and I literally was like that’s what’s missing, right there. And it was mainly unilateral training. And so from then on and that was 2006, 2007, when I read the book my philosophies on training, how I approached training programming, everything changed. And not only did my strength not drop, I got stronger in the weight room and on the ice, I immediately got better, immediately more comfortable, immediately, better balance, immediately, like just all these positive benefits. And then, from there on, I just try to add more and more into my training. Okay, well, like, yeah, lifting is training, but all we’re doing right now is lifting, running and jumping. That’s all it was. But, like, if I close my eyes and try to play hockey, I can’t play. So how important are my eyes? Okay, well, I should start training my eyes. Part of that came from my concussion stuff. Okay, vestibular system was manged. I had to do vestibular training three days a week for, like I think it was like four to five months, and as soon as I finished that, I kept doing the vestibular work and I was like holy crap, why is no one training their eyes? So in 2008, I’m telling everybody start training your eyes. And they’re like what are you talking? 0:33:07 – Jeff Pelizzaroabout? What does that mean? 0:33:08 – Jeff LovecchioRight. And so, like I started bringing in lots of coordination, lots of playing with depth and spatial awareness, because hockey is so much about. Okay, I know you’re this far, so what skills can I do here versus if I’m over there, versus if I’m right in tight, like all of that is happening on the ice every shift, but nobody worked on that in the gym and I’m like, oh my God, just lifting weights, running and jumping, like, yes, do all that, but let’s do more. And so in my warmups I do a lot of that stuff vestibular coordination, spatial awareness you know stuff like that too. 0:33:43 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I was wondering where you piece that in. So that’s, that’s mostly in the warmup, kind of stuff. 0:33:47 – Jeff LovecchioI usually do all that stuff within the warmup before we get going, because the guys have energy, the guys are fresh. I also think that, like your eyes, like I said, if you tried to play hockey with your eyes closed or golf, you suck. Or just stand on one leg right, people can’t stand on one leg, you know, so it’s like I put a lot of that in there. And then also it’s over 25 years old, but I use it with guys younger than 25 anyways, and they all feel better, so that’s all I care about. But over 25, neuroplasticity when you’re tired, if you work on it like it, helps way more. So like I started bringing in like neuroplasticity drills and vestibular system drills, eye drills while they’re tired. So, in between, you know, sets, I might, might be throwing balls or juggling or doing something right? Because, especially in hockey, everybody knows that if you get caught out in the defensive zone at the end of a shift, the first thing that goes is your brain. Like you just start going all over the ice, you forget the system, like you just stop thinking and like you just become an idiot. So it’s like I want to challenge their brain, their eyes, all this stuff while they’re tired, because that’s going to happen on the ice, you know. 0:34:56 – Jeff Pelizzaroso that’s yeah, that’s fascinating. I’m just thinking like when guys get to the 15 16th hole, you know they’re tired, they’re exhausted, whether they’re a pro golfer, whether they’re collegiate golfer, whether they’re just a guy on a golf trip on the second day, that’s in his 40s or 50s you know like right doing that kind of stuff, because then it’s a lot of dexterity stuff too. So like doing some some training, getting a putter out and yeah it’s not a time to really work on skills. 0:35:22 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s more like the capacity. 0:35:23 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, when you’re tired decision-making. 0:35:25 – Jeff LovecchioDecision-making when you’re tired and that’s like so important and it’s something that I think more and more Trainers are starting to add that stuff, but still most don’t and it’s like dude wire you go back to. Why are we training? Because when I was younger, the way I was training made me way better in the weight room, but at a certain point I stopped getting better on the ice. Yeah, I’m a pro hockey player. All that matters is the ice. I don’t care how much I bench press, unless an increase means I’m better out there, mm-hmm, and I want guys to bench press a lot. You know what I mean, but it’s like this is the main thing. So everything we’re doing here, all I care about is are your results better? Are you healthier? Are you getting injured less? You know, all of those things is the reason why we’re training so like if you get. I think that for all sports there’s a point of diminishing returns, focusing on chasing One specific skill or attribute or strength or something like that. You know, let’s work on the other things and let’s work on the other things in a way that you work on them on the ice when you’re tired. 0:36:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know when, when, whatever, you know when, when you have your guys in the gym or girls, at what point you talk about kind of the risk, the reward. You know I’d see on on line Coaches working and getting people just trying to deadlift as much as possible. I know you and I we’re not back squat guys, right, but even even the hex bar deadlift, right, it’s a great exercise. But I see some of these golfers online 400, 500 pound deadlifts and I’m like Like at what point is it just like yes, there’s the risk. 0:36:59 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, you’re spying your your hips if the risk does not equal the reward and we get. I never want to scare anybody into trying things in the gym or doing things if they make sense, but like, like I’m saying, you’ve got to realize that that what’s the reward? If I have 400 on the bar versus 450, and if 400 is my absolute most I’ve ever done, and now I try to jump up and keep jumping, well, what point does that not really help golf and we could spend that time on other things. And now maybe we move the bar faster or we do a tempo lift or we do this or we do that Because you’re not getting paid for your frickin PR on the trap bar. Yeah, you’re getting paid to win at golf. So, like, how much is that helping? And is there? Could our time be better spent? Mm-hmm, that that’s what I care. How much time do I have with you? Okay? Well, that’s gonna decide another factor of what we’re gonna do, because we want to do things that will help the most with the amount of time, the resources, your body, all those types of things. 0:37:58 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at first form, and this week I want to highlight their formula one post workout protein shake. I use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym Working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the formula one, first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym, but also, if you don’t know if you’re gonna be able to get your protein in in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So be sure to go over to first form dot com forward slash 18STRONG to get your first form Formula one protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is gonna be put into a drawing every single month for free first form products. So, again, go over to first form dot com forward slash 18STRONG. Going back to when you were talking about the guy that was in the combine and you know, 135 pounds couldn’t, couldn’t let the hundred and 35 pounds. We see the same thing in in golf. Right, you see these, these guys that are five, six, 140 pounds, but they’re hitting a ball 330, 340. You guys see it with guys with slap shots. And yeah, what do you? Where do you see the most benefit as far as being able to improve Something like that? Like I was always amazed when I would see some of the hockey guys at a gym that I used to work at and Like the speed of their hands. It didn’t matter how big and strong the guy was. But you see, those guys let a wrist shot go or a slap shot. It’s like holy shit. And then you know, but it’s not because of how big and strong he is necessarily technique right. 0:39:43 – Jeff LovecchioSo much of sports is Skill-based. So, like, the reason you’re training is so that you can Present your skill for longer at towards the end of the game, 16th hole, 18th hole, whatever it is when you’re tired, like things like that, like, and then obviously to increase your power output and things like that. But Power development is very Position-specific. So like, yeah, a hand clean is working on your power, but does that look like anything you do in golf or hockey or almost any sport? Well, how about a med ball throw for a shot or a golf swing? That’s power and it’s very position-specific and you’re working those specific muscles and you can go over speed, you can go heavier, you can do all these things. So for me it’s like, well, let’s focus, let’s start with that trap bar, whatever it is, to get some general strength and then let’s advance into more Specific things that will help with whatever the skills that you need to Demonstrate in your sport. You know it’s hard. Everybody’s different, you know. And it’s also also in like sports that have Multiple, like big rosters where every guy has a different role because, like you got 12 forwards on a team that are playing in a game in hockey, but like every player. Every forward of those 12 has a little bit different role. They play a different style. So, like you can also get into that. But there’s just so many ways you can go about it. There’s so many ways to skin the cat. You gotta find what works for you. Your body, what do you like, what do you like goes a lot into it, do you? I? I, everybody Will get at me. For this was like do you want to be there? We were talking about it today with all my college guys Do you want to be in the gym? Because a lot of them will tell me, like I hate our lifts at school, I hate them, my body hurts. You know all this stuff. And to me, I’m just like what is like? What if that guy wanted to be in there? What if he enjoyed the lifts he was doing? How much better would, how much more would he get out of that? You know what I mean. Like it’s so that is such an important piece to training, because all of these people coming to train with us are training, not to train. They’re not trying to get better at the gym, they’re trying to get better at something else. Yeah, and we as coaches have to keep that in mind. It’s not what we want to do, necessarily. It’s it’s what do you, what do they like doing? What do they want to do? Past like the things we know they need to do? Yeah, but it’s our job to let, to get them to understand why they need to do it and why they need to Like it. I think that you know. 0:42:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean we’re getting into the point right now. End of the year, january is coming up, and so it’s like New Year’s resolutions all around, right, and people are trying to figure out Okay, what am I going to do to get better next year? But I think to your point. Like if you don’t find something that you really want to do, like if you’re just going to try to do something for 30 Days or 90 days, and it’s like it’s going to be a grind every single time you do it, I mean, how realistic is that for you to stick to? that so what do you, what would you say to somebody that’s that’s looking to make some changes next year? You know, going into January, going into 24, that you know maybe is not quite sure how to really start to get into building those habits or making those changes, because I know that that’s a big piece of what you do too. 0:42:55 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I’m, I’m, I don’t care what it is if it’s the gym, your body, your health, your business, your relationships. I’m a huge advocate for always trying to reverse engineer whatever you want to do. So if you’re, you got that, like you, you also. You have to decide what you want to do and your why. Because if you don’t, it’s like getting in your car and Not putting anything in your GPS and hoping you get to the destination. Even pick the destination. You have to pick a destination so that I know, okay, this is what I want, or I want to be, or I want to do, or something, and now we can Reverse backwards to January 1st and now we can create steps to then work towards that. But if you don’t say what your goal is, you can’t reverse engineer it. And so the what is the goal, the why, then, is even more important. Why do you want that goal, and is that actually the goal you really want? Like you, you have to be very honest and specific with your why, because if you don’t, you’re not going to show up on the hard days. You’re not going to do, you’re not, you’re going to make bit more bad decisions. You’re, you’re gonna, you’re just not going to do everything with intention because you haven’t established a strong enough why. Your why is fake and a lot of people are embarrassed to say their why because it’s like something deep down, but it’s like you’ve got to connect to that. That is your purpose for why we’re gonna lay out all these steps and you’ll want to do these things because you know when it’s hard there, you’re making them. Put them on the bike or the treadmill or whatever, and they’re halfway through and they want to Quit. But if you’re the coach and you’re saying, hey, you told me, is this your goal? You told me, this is your goal. Yeah, this is why you’re here. Don’t you forget that they’re gonna do it. But if they don’t have that strong why, it’s easy to quit, it’s easy to take days off, it’s easy to let that go, because you just haven’t created a strong enough reason why you’re gonna do all these things that are usually like harder to do. Making good decisions it’s harder than making bad decisions. Yeah, you know, I mean, it’s just it’s it’s. It’s really important to do the what, the why, reverse, engineer, create steps. 0:45:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIs that something that you go through specifically with some of your guys? I know you you’ve even got, you’ve got that on your wall, right? What is your why yeah? 0:45:09 – Jeff Lovecchioand all the time I’m telling the guys look up there, we’re doing something hard, we’re doing shuttles. The guys are tired, it’s the middle of summer and they’re kind of hitting that first lull or funk. Look up there, why are you here? Why are you here? And I know what their whys are and I also make them go over their whys Every single day before every single session. Really. So, to start every session in the offseason, not the season in the offseason After they do the guys come in, I have a board where it’s like I wanted to do, like it’s anywhere from five to ten things that day that I just because some guys get there 20 minutes early, some guys show up right on time. I want them to get through these things Quickly, with intention, so then I can focus on all the stuff that we’re gonna do together. And right before we we start together, I lay them down on their mats. I don’t turn the lights off in the beginning, but I’m telling the closer eyes and tell yourself why you’re here. Why are you here, not out loud, just to yourself why are you here? What are your goals? What are your long-term goals? What are your short-term goals? What are your goals for today in the gym what do you want out of hockey this year? And then I want you to tell me, tell yourself the specific number of goals that you have for the season. Whether you’re a goalie and it’s like I will have a 93, say, percentage this year, I will play in over 55% of the games, or a forward, I will score 20 nights, I will. I have a tattoo down me, I will, I will, I want, I will. Statements, not I want or not, I hope, because that’s bullshit language like I want it very specific. I believe the words we use in our own head matter Because they are gonna be deep down inside of us. And then when we come to a fork in the road where it’s like the way I should go or the way I shouldn’t go, if you’re always saying I will, I will, I will, I will, you’re just gonna naturally make that good decision. That’s gonna get you towards the I will statement. If you’re not doing that, it’s easy to take the easy road, you know so. We do that before every single session in offseason. 0:46:59 – Jeff PelizzaroI love that, man. It’s like rehearsing that when you get to a tough spot, you already know this is the direction I’m taking you, because you’ve already kind of seen that you already played it out. It’s like I don’t have to waver which way I’m. 0:47:12 – Jeff LovecchioI’m moving in that direction. It’s the positive self-talk of like there’s days where we don’t want to train, right, and then that stuff happens. But like getting through those days though I mean getting through you know language I should probably shouldn’t say it that way but finding a way to battle on those days. Those are the days when you leave the gym and you’re like I didn’t give up a ton of people my age guys I play with, guys I played against. They would have left early, they would have, they would have, you know, done eight reps instead of ten. I did all friggin ten. And part of that comes from the self-talk that you’re always saying to yourself. If you’re always doing that, you don’t even know when a decision comes up, you’re not even thinking, it’s just second nature. This is what I’m gonna do, because this gets me to my goals. But if you’re not always telling yourself why am I here? What are my goals? I will do this. I, I’m doing this because I want that and I’m gonna get that. No matter what, you’re gonna make those better decisions. You know and I’ve seen it. But it’s not like. This is like all you know. I tried it once. Like trying this with thousands of athletes at all levels and it works, so let’s keep doing it so you obviously are. 0:48:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re helping coach all of these kids. You’re really helping kind of steer the way that they mentally approach the game, mentally approach their training, how hard they work. Who did that for you when you were young? Because it sounds like since you were 15 years old, you were a hard-working kid, right. 0:48:33 – Jeff LovecchioWell, I just I got to a point where I wasn’t good enough and I literally had to like fortify my mind or else I wouldn’t have been there. And hockey was everything to me, it was ever. It’s all I ever wanted to do, it’s all I ever thought about. And so, like it was kind of like shit or get off the pot for me, like you either have to go all in and do everything or else your hockey career is over. And I had coaches who told me that, and I had a coach who wanted to cut me, and if I would have said I’m done, he would have cut me that second right there, I would have went home, but I didn’t. No, I’m here, I’m going, I’m going, I’m going. And I just kept having to find a way. And then I realized that, like when I I was always a leader on teams too, and so like I’d always try and bring guys with me and like I just realized that like the guys who are better than me, when they would come with me to the gym or they would come with me and I’d teach them about nutrition, like they would get better, and so I would just start seeing like yeah, guys, like look how, like I’m one of the better players on this team, but it’s not because of my skill. You’re all more skilled to me, all of you. So what if you guys start doing the things I’m doing? Or what if you guys start talking to yourself the way I am? And I started working on that with teammates and younger guys who I would take under my wing, who are going through a hard time like I did two years before, and I would see the change it would have in them and I kind of like selfishly look at it as like I’m always like man. If I would have had me saying this when I was younger, how good would I have been. I would have figured it out sooner. And if I figured it out sooner and I had more years to develop, how much better could I have gotten. So it’s like something where I’m like I wish I had me when I was younger and in St Louis we didn’t really have that growing up, and so, like I took a lot of pride from 17 on, coming back every summer and helping guys out. Hey guys, I learned this this year. You got to be able to do this in two years. Let’s start practicing it now. The kids who are coming up behind me, and I love doing that, and I was a leader on every team, so I’d also do it on my teams. And then when I started my company, it was like, well, now I’m going to do this like for real. And then it just, you know, has gone more and more people every year. 0:50:39 – Jeff PelizzaroSo tell us about the company you got your GMBM on. Yeah, what’s it stand for? 0:50:44 – Jeff LovecchioYes, so it was actually my first year when I retired, so 2018 was my last season in Austria and I came home and obviously I walked into, you know, a business that was already pretty pretty set up, pretty established in St Louis here, and but I was still like trying to decide how, where do I want to go with this? Where do I want to go with this? But do I want to be an only hockey like trying to figure out and how can I be better for my clients, for my family, just like all these things? I want to be better. I went through a divorce which also made me look inward and just be like I just want to be better for everybody around me and myself. And I was with a supplement company at the time and they flew me out to Arizona and it was. It was like one of those movies where it’s like there was 3000 people in this huge banquet hall and the person on stage at Seyosanth and everybody’s like oh yes, yes, pretty like that. But it was like about supplements making people healthy and at first it’s kind of like this is ridiculous, but then I was like I got to know those people and they all genuinely wanted to help people and they genuinely wanted to help people and they made money off helping people and I was like, well, that’s the best thing in the world, like everybody’s winning, like that’s really cool. And I was just like man, like I need to do more for my guys, I need to do more for my family, I need to like give more of myself. And my flight got canceled. So everybody from the conference flew, flew home on like Sunday. Mine got canceled two days in a row so I wound up being in Arizona two more days. So I have no car because, like I got flown out there. So I’m just like walking around this downtown area I don’t even remember what city it was, one of the big ones out there, scottsdale, I don’t know and I came to this like random, like business park, and this sounds so out of a movie, but it’s 100% true. Come to this random business park, like a mile away from the hotel and it was like beautiful, it was super quiet, it was a Monday in the middle of the day, so everybody’s working. I’m guessing there’s all these beautiful glass buildings and like all these trees and bushes and like a little pond and like little fake rivers running through it. So I was just sitting there and I meditated my last few years. I got into meditation in my career. I’m sitting there meditating, thinking about this conference, of all these positive influences that just were around me and the energetic feeling and vibration I was having and I was just like I need to be more, I need to give more to everyone in my life and I’ll be more. And it just like came to me and I was like, well, if I give more, I’ll be more. And I was like I’m going to go get that tattooed, I mean right now. I Googled Nier’s tattoo shop. I walked two miles got a tattooed on my arm right here and then two months. So I started talking about that on my social media, as I just started social media back then and my podcast. I just started a podcast that year too, the hockey think tank podcast, which is now pretty big, and because of that, give more, be more. And I was saying it to people hey, if you give more to hockey, you’re going to. If you give more to training, you’re going to be a better hockey player. You’ll be more on the ice. If you give more to nutrition, you’re going to be more on the ice. If you give more to your family, you’re going to be a better son, brother, husband, whatever. And so, in saying that and saying that on the podcast, this company who I now makes my clothing line reach out to me and they were like we love your message, we make, we have this clothing line. We’d love to just send you some GMBM stuff, but actually I think this was one of the first things they sent me in 2018. Still one of my favorite shirts. It was the first and the stuff was awesome and I was like guys, I would love to like make a shirt and sell it to my guys just to remind them every day when they come in, like I’m here to give more, like, give more. Okay, other people are given this much, give more than them, because in the end, you’re going to be more. And then it just like kept going, kept going and the clothing line got bigger and you know, and then I had to give more be more podcasts. For a while it did well, I got clothing line and I’m actually going to change the name of my company probably to like GMT. Give more training. Be more is like my speaking side. I do a lot of speaking now and stuff like that. So it’s just, I just think it’s a good model for anybody who wants to be better than anything Like you’re not going to get anywhere by giving less, whether that’s sleep, nutrition, reading, being a better person. Just go out there and give more to strangers. You’re going to, I promise you, if you’re nicer to the guy in the Chipotle line, you just made them have a better day and you’re going to feel good that they are like wow, nobody’s asked me how my day is. The amount of times people at gas stations, grocery stores, restaurants where the first thing I say is how are you doing today? And they look up and they’re like nobody’s asked me that in a month. That’s crazy and it’s like man, what happened to society? So I just think if you give more to everybody, whoever’s in front of you, give more to that person, give more to your studies, give more to school, give more to your family, give more to relationships, give more to your training, you’re going to be better. It sounds so simple, but it’s like I’m really big in like sayings and like things like that. They help me stay. They’re like the bumper things in bowling. Like sayings help me refocus and stay in the lane. Like my grandma always said, like if it is to be, it’s up to me. Like she would write it every time she’d leave she’s from Chicago, every time she’d leave her house in St Louis, she’d leave little notes in my bathroom If it is to be, it’s up to me, jeffrey, if you want to be better, no one can help you. You need to go get better, you need to go train, you need to go to sleep on time, and so that was just like instilled in me, and I love sayings and I thought GMBN was easy and just reminds me to be better. I love it, man. 0:56:07 – Jeff PelizzaroWe could sit and we could sit and chat about this stuff all day long. I’m thinking about even just walking around the park walking the dog. I intentionally try to lock eyes with people and just smile and it’s like some people are just in their little zone and they walk by and they almost like don’t want to look at you, but you smile and say hello and they’re like oh, oh hi. Catches them off guard almost. 0:56:30 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s weird. It’s weird where society is gone. I think, and what kind of scares me is the younger generations now. They’re always like I work with a lot of kids and so many of them can’t look adult in the eye. They don’t meet somebody and shake their hand. They’ve always got air pods in Like I don’t like dude, where, if this keeps going like this, where the disconnect in society? I mean we’re seeing it with politics and all these things where everybody’s at each other’s strokes all the time but nobody ever looks up, looks someone in the eye and talks to them. That’s so much of all these bad things in the world. Would just be better if we were polite, nice. 0:57:12 – Jeff PelizzaroIn a room next to each other like talking. 0:57:14 – Jeff LovecchioI don’t care what your views are, but let’s talk like human beings and not kill each other. We’re in the same country, the same world, the same universe, same everything. We don’t need less connection, we need more connection. Yeah. 0:57:28 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s funny. Your grandma was such an influence on you. My grandpa was always the one he’s like. When you meet somebody, you look them in the eye, you shake their hand, you squeeze their hands Even my 10 year old were like what does grandpa Val say? Look them in the eye, shake their hand, squeeze. So it’s awesome, that’s where he takes on the moment. 0:57:43 – Jeff LovecchioEvery kid who comes to me, who’s new, and their parents are coming in and I stick out my hand and no, no, no, no, no. Look me in the eye, shake my hand like you mean it, make me believe that you want to be here. You know and like every kid, and it’s like you do that out in the world. And for me now, one of the coolest things ever is when scouts call me and go and you work with this guy. Yeah, I knew you did because of this, this and this because of the way you talked to me, the way that he shook my hand, the way that he showed up to our meeting he had a collared shirt on and nice pants and he combed his hair and other kids are showing up like they’re going to a concert and so it’s like a weird, like parenting moment from here. 0:58:20 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m like, yeah, I love to hear that, you know, yeah, we have there’s so many coaches that are listening in this podcast right now that I know are like man, that’s that’s what I want to do with my students, with my clients, with my golf. 0:58:29 – Jeff LovecchioIt doesn’t take a lot of extra effort. It’s a little bit of effort every day and it’s just hammering home those details. Be a good person. No, no, no, no. Like a simple one for me, and I say it to all, especially when I have new teams or new clients coming in, I’m like, hey, everybody grab a mat and I watch and I see which guys grab multiple mats and pass them out to our teammates and then I stopped the room every single time. That was a test. See what he did right there. What did he do? It’s a good teammate right there. Why is he good? I don’t know, because I asked you all to do something and he went up and he helped everybody else. That’s who we want on our team. That’s who, if I’m a business owner, I want that guy and all the business owners out there, they want that guy. Don’t be the guy who only thinks about himself. Think about the other people in the room. Think about you know all these things, and it takes five extra seconds every day doing that. And now all these kids. What’s really cool is my guys who didn’t don’t make it to pro or play lower level college or whatever, and to see them be successful in life after hockey is, and they’re doing the same things we did in the gym. Right, it’s very cool. Yeah, it’s very cool. It plays out in everything, everything. How you do anything is how you do everything, absolutely. 0:59:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, my man, we’re going to finish up with some, some fun questions here. I got a feeling I know your answer to this one, but Caddyshack or happy Gilmore. Happy Gilmore, obviously. 0:59:47 – Jeff LovecchioI love Caddyshack, but happy Gilmore 100%. 0:59:50 – Jeff PelizzaroI heard you once say that your skating style was much like happy Gilmore. 0:59:54 – Jeff LovecchioYeah, I was really fast but really ugly, and so I always tell guys hey, you’re better than me, do what I did, and you’ll be even better because I skated like happy Gilmore. 1:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroSo early. You were talking about how different guys have different roles on the team. I’m just curious, what was Jeff Levecchio’s role? 1:00:09 – Jeff LovecchioI’d say I was like a power forward, so like I had to play down low heavy minutes, lots of penalty killing If I was on the power plates in front of the net, getting beat up trying to stream the goalie, kind of unselfish stuff like that, putting myself in danger areas, like just that type of stuff. Like I could score goals but I wasn’t like a goal scorer and like it was finesse it was usually ugly, but what I would always say is they don’t ask how, they ask how many. 1:00:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYep, that’s all that matters. Absolutely All right, if you could pick a walk up song. I’m going to say to the first T box and you haven’t played a whole lot of golf. 1:00:40 – Jeff LovecchioWhat’s your walk up song? Live your Life by Rihanna and TI yeah, specifically Rihanna’s part in that. Before every single speech, I listen to that song. Awesome, yeah, every speech. 1:00:51 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I have a feeling you’re gonna have a couple answers for this one, but is there a book that has meant a ton to you? We’ve already talked about Mike Boyles but, a book that’s meant to a lot to you, that you recommend maybe to your guys. Don’t have to be training, don’t have to be happy whatever. 1:01:04 – Jeff LovecchioThe secret is the first one. I want all my guys reading the law of attraction, just like attracts, like where your mind goes, energy flows. I think all of that is very, very important and it changed my life. I read that book on the plane right after I signed with the Bruins going to Providence and I had coaches and people being like you’re not ready to play pro? And I read that book cover to cover in a day and a half and I scored a goal and assist and I was first star in my first pro game and usually I was like known for celebrating really hard when I would score because I was just so happy and I stood still and just looked at like the sky and I was like I knew I could do this and it was like I attribute to my feeling going into that game a lot to reading the secret the day before. I really believe in that stuff. So the secret the other one that I read recently I’m not a big reader, I should be way better is RSF and it’s written by a guy from St Louis Relentless Solutions, focus. Oh, jason Selt. Yes, that book. I’ve been dialed ever since I read that book last year. 1:02:03 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s going to be in here in three weeks, no way dude, I’ve never met him. 1:02:08 – Jeff LovecchioA buddy of mine was like you got to read this book and my wife will say she doesn’t love it because we’ll go on walks or we’re talking and she comes up with a problem and I’m like you got 60 seconds, 60 seconds go. You can talk about it for 60. What’s one thing we can do right now that’s going to move the needle and like that’s how my brain thinks and that is. I was already in that kind of like don’t sit in, sulk and whatever, but like RSF, read that book. 1:02:32 – Jeff PelizzaroRead that book I literally just ordered. Oh, you’re going to love it. 1:02:36 – Jeff LovecchioIt’s the same thing, hammering you over and over and over, and then you get to end the book and you start practicing it in your life and you’re like, oh my God, yes, like you’re going to love it. 1:02:45 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s awesome, perfect, all right, if you could pick a dream for some to go play some golf with. Could be celebrities, could be historical figures alive, dead, doesn’t matter who it is. Who are you picking? 1:02:55 – Jeff LovecchioI’d say Joe Rogan, Conor McGregor, Dana White probably Weird that they’re all like fighting guys. It’s not because of fighting, it’s not because of golf course it has nothing to do with like fighting Conor McGregor, because his mindset when he was Conor McGregor before he lost his first fight to Diaz he was RSF. He was the secret. He embodied all that. He talked about the secret and the law of attraction all the time and he believed it and he lived it. When he went into his fight with first fight with Diaz that he lost and that changed his career trajectory. From then on, I knew at the weigh-ins that he was going to lose and that he wasn’t the same because of, like his eye contact and stuff, and I could tell that like he didn’t believe in himself. But like I say to people, it doesn’t even matter, Do the guy had like probably $400 million at that point. $300 million how do you go in and fight for your life when you got $400 million in the bank? I don’t know how anybody could do that. But that’s why him. Joe Rogan, because he’s just interviewed some of the smartest people in the world, his perspective on things I love. And Dana White for things that he’s done during COVID and things that, like I align with him on. I really respect what he did and I think he’s a true American. So, and I think those three together would be hilarious. 1:04:09 – Jeff PelizzaroOh my God, that would be quite a time. All right, I don’t know if you know many golf courses, but you know our typical question is if there’s a bucket list golf course for you to go to, like if we could fuel up the 18STRONG jet. You can go anywhere you want. Where are you going to play? And then I have a follow up question, a hockey version of that, so I don’t really know a ton about golf, but this past summer a couple of my clients went. 1:04:36 – Jeff LovecchioWhy just one of them went to a wedding, and I think it was either. I think it was Scotland. Is there like a really good course in Scotland with like a castle on it? 1:04:44 – Jeff PelizzaroSt Andrews, that’s what it was. 1:04:46 – Jeff LovecchioI saw pictures and I was like, and they were telling me how beautiful it was and how like prestigious it is, and I was like I’ve never been to Scotland. That would probably be it. Yeah, that one’s like, that’s the home of golf. Oh really, yeah, St Andrews is the home of golf. 1:05:00 – Jeff PelizzaroSo hockey version of this? In your pro career, is there a place that you never got to play in that you want? That is, like the number one place that you would have loved to get your skates on the ice? 1:05:15 – Jeff LovecchioLet’s see, in the NHL and preseason I got to play in every Canadian rink, which was really cool, and I got to play in Boston, so that was cool. I’d probably say just like against the Blues in St Louis. Yeah, just because, like, I grew up here at a time where, like not almost no guys were going pro very, very few, and now it’s a lot different and I me, if I could have played a game in St Louis, that would have been very, very cool. Just to have been a kid who grew up watching the Blues and didn’t see a lot of guys from St Louis making it, it would have been cool to play there. Awesome, yeah. 1:05:53 – Jeff PelizzaroNow that you have a monster following on social media, is there one social media account that you think the 18STRONG crew should check? 1:06:02 – Jeff Lovecchioout Good question. 1:06:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhether it’s, you know, training wise mentality, whatever who’s somebody, we should follow. 1:06:07 – Jeff LovecchioI have a couple. Number one, vernon Griffith. Yeah, okay, love him. Trying to get him out to St Louis this summer. Yeah, I’ve talked to him. I think he’s going to come out. Vernon Griffith, because I think that with golf, a lot of his hip, a T spine I think all that stuff could really help golfers and like how they work together and then adding in the shoulder, I think he’s just phenomenal for anybody who rotates. So everyone, also my buddy, clifton Harski, cliff Harski I think his Instagram is Clifton Harski. He does. He’s not only a kettlebell guy but he shows a lot of stuff with kettlebells. He’s a really big. He’s like a coach of a lot of coaches. You probably know, yeah, and follow like that are big time and he does a lot of stuff with kettlebells that I’ve never seen and I really really like I just did a one of his certifications in Nashville, like three weeks ago, worked out with him at first form this past Friday with a new client of mine who’s a pro pickleball player from St Louis, and I just think that the way that he uses kettlebells traveling, moving, while he’s using them, not just standing still I think that that will help anyone who moves and any athlete with acceleration, deceleration, rotation, fluidity, all these things, I think would help any athlete in any sport. Very cool yeah. 1:07:24 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, we’ll check it out. All right, any last pieces of advice for the 18STRONG crew and then tell them where they can go, find you and everything. 1:07:33 – Jeff LovecchioPeace of advice. Just give more Whatever you want in life, like, reverse engineer your goals. Like, for the love of God, take time to write down what you want out of life, I don’t care how big or how small it is. Write it down and then decide why you want that. Do I really want this? Why do I want this? Because if you connect that why with the what you’re going to want to reverse engineer the steps from today, day one, to where, how, what can I be doing to get to my goals, you can never get there. If you don’t decide the what and the why, you’ll never get there. So decide that stuff and it will change your life, because then you can see I’m off course. You don’t know if you’re off course if you don’t know the destination right, you don’t know you’re over here when you’re trying to go to here, unless you decided you’re going here. So you’ve got to decide that stuff and then really connect with a strong why. Because if you connect with a strong why, nothing can stop you. Then, as far as finding me, I just send everybody to my Instagram. It’s my name at, Jeff Levecchio, the word love cchio, or my new website, gmbmcom. Really, and what’s really cool about my website is that two of my clients that I’ve had since they were little kids who are freshmen in college this year, at 20 years old, they built my website. It was one of the best websites of anyone in my space I’ve ever seen because of them at 20. And I just think it’s really cool that I was able to teach these kids all these things that I’ve learned in life. And now they’ve taught me about the website and they’ve built it and I got to pay people who paid me for a decade. I got to kind of pay that back to them. So for me it’s really cool and it’s been a fun project working with them. 1:09:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome. Well, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to come on today. I mean speaking personally. I’ve been following you for a long time and I know we’re in different worlds the hockey world, the golf world, a lot of that crosses over the tune right, especially in St Louis there’s a lot of cross over there, but I just want to say that I really appreciate what you’re doing, not just from the physicality of the fitness side of things, but the mentality side. I think that there’s so much that everybody listening to this show, everybody that is interested in fitness mindset, needs to go follow you. So thanks for coming on. 1:09:43 – Jeff LovecchioI appreciate it, man. Thank you. Now let’s see how I swung the ball. I’m going to close the club here. 1:09:47 – Jeff PelizzaroLet’s see how it goes. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG Podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again, we’ll catch up with you next week. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Mike Carrol (Fit For Golf)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 361Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Listen in as we welcome Mike Carroll, the mastermind behind Fit for Golf, to the 18STRONG Podcast. Our conversation takes a thorough look at fitness within the realm of golf, exploring how strength and speed training can lead to significant improvements in your game. Mike brings his unique insights into training golfers and shares valuable dos and don’ts for consulting with professional golfers. He shares how he primarily works with them remotely, showing the flexibility and adaptability of his methods. As we continue, we explore the significance of physical training in golf, focusing on swing speed and its relationship to the technical aspects of the game. We discuss the importance of understanding the biomechanics of the swing and how to enhance the physical qualities that contribute to it. There’s a focus on prioritizing physical training to improve physical qualities while using practice time for skill development. Listen closely as we caution against getting too wrapped up in specific exercises that may not significantly impact performance. Our guest Mike, a prominent figure in the world of golf fitness, offers his insights on long-term physical training structure. He recommends three training sessions per week focusing on strength training, cardiovascular exercise, and explosiveness or power work. Listen in for a discussion on golf injuries and recovery, highlighting common injuries and emphasizing the importance of rest. Wrapping up the episode, Mike shares his favorite golf books, social media accounts to follow, and the best piece of golf advice he has received. So, whether you’re a seasoned golfer or a beginner looking to up your game, this episode is packed with valuable insights and actionable advice. Main Topics (00:04) Fitness and Golf Interview with Mike Carroll on simplicity in golf fitness, training professional golfers remotely, and improving game performance. (11:07) Physical Training’s Importance in Golf Proper biomechanics and physical training are crucial for swing speed in golf, while skill development should be prioritized during practice. (20:37) Effective Long-Term Physical Training Structure The ideal training program for golf includes strength, cardio, power, mobility, and scaling for injuries to improve physical function. (31:51) Mobility and Speed Training in Golf Mobility work and warmups improve golf performance, incorporating dynamic movements and swing speed for average golfers. (36:28) Speed Training for Golfers Speed training for golfers leads to improved swing speed through physical capabilities and skill practice, with the potential for significant gains. (49:08) Benefits of Training for Golfers Resistance and speed training benefits health, fitness, and longevity. Start slow, warm-up, and incorporate into golf routine. (57:16) Golf Injuries and Recovery Importance Golfers should gradually increase speed training, prioritize rest and recovery, and avoid overtraining to prevent injuries. (01:07:05) Golf Recommended books, dream golf foursomes, bucket list courses, social media accounts, and best golf advice from guest Mike. Follow Mike Carroll Instagram: @fit_for_golf Twitter: @Fit For Golf https://fitforgolf.blog/ Links Mentioned The Stack System Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:05 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 361 with Mike Carroll of Fit for Golf. What’s up, guys? This is the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe every golfer deserves to play better, longer. In this episode, I’m super excited to finally have Mike Carroll on the show from Fit for Golf. Mike has one of the most popular social media accounts and golf fitness apps out there and is really just some great things for not just the high level golfers but really the golf population in general. And so in today’s episode, we get to really kind of talk about the in and outs of strength training, building speed in your golf game, and really how keeping things simple is really the best way for you to make significant gains without overdoing it. But also, if you’re just starting out, then you’re going to be able to make much more significant gains than you think you are. And then we’re going to talk a little bit about the dos and don’ts of strength training and speed training, and so we’re going to really help you figure out what you need to do to make your game better and make yourself stronger. Right at the best, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. Go again 18strong.com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Mike Carroll, welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. 0:02:06 – Mike CarrollThanks very much for having me, Jess. I look forward to chatting. 0:02:09 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, honestly, I can’t believe that it’s taken me this long to bring you on the show. I feel like we should have had this conversation years ago, but I just love everything that you’re doing. I think when people think fitness and golf, you are definitely one of the people that they come to mind, especially in the social media world and in the fitness world. So congrats, first of all, on all your success and everything you’re doing. 0:02:34 – Mike CarrollThank you very much. I think the fact you haven’t gotten me on is probably the same that you’ve got far more interested guests to talk to, which is probably a good thing. 0:02:45 – Jeff PelizzaroSo where are you now? Obviously, people can tell from your accent that you’re not from the States, but you’re in the States now, right? 0:02:52 – Mike CarrollYeah, I’ve been in Southern California for seven years around Huntington Beach, newport Beach, irvine area. I’m from Ireland. I was born there, all my family is there, was there until I finished college and then a couple of years afterwards and I moved out here to work for, like I called Mike Hansen in a juke called Hansen Fitness for Golf. Mike’s been kind of specializing in training golfers for probably maybe 20 years now definitely over 15. And there was a job opportunity in his gym that I saw online and applied came over. So I came over in 2016 and started working for him. At the same time, I started up the Sid for Golf I had. About three years ago I stopped working for white and white full-time with Sid for Golf, which is 95% the app, and then I traveled to work with a couple of professional players a little bit, but only a few times a year. So kind of an interesting. In the last two years I basically stopped being an in-person trainer, which I had been for the 10 years previous. I’m now much more so like running an online business and, I guess, consulting with some high-level players trying to help them with their physical preparation. 0:04:26 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you said you’ve traveled to a couple tournaments. Do you have any? Are there any pros in your area that you see on a relatively normal basis, or is it all just consultation stuff? 0:04:37 – Mike CarrollSo there’s not a single PJ Torpler in Linsen, california, to the best of my knowledge, because the state taxes are so high. I think Phil was the last one and then, when his daughter finished high school, I think even he left. Obviously he’s one of the guys who’s made enough money where he wouldn’t think it would matter, but I honestly don’t think there’s any of them based here. So I currently work with three PJ Torplers and none of them live here. So I tend to see them at tournaments and what’s nice about that is I go to a tournament and I get to see two or three of them in the same week, so it’s a nice way to catch up. And how do I do that? A few times a year and then most of it is just talking to the regularity by phone and text and checking up on things that way. 0:05:30 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So, yeah, a lot of online stuff. When you first meet with them, do you do an in-person assessment, like do you travel to go see them even before a tournament or anything like that, or is it strictly pretty much at the golf tournaments? 0:05:45 – Mike CarrollNo, we usually get started after a phone call, to be honest, like a nush huge on, like regimented screaming, was our assessments. To be honest, and because I think we can usually kind of start training and making progress without doing that, based on sort of the information they were made to me in a phone call and we started maybe looking over some of their trading records and some of their stats and things like that. So, honestly, when a lot of them I could be training them or, I guess, consulting with them remotely for months and like many months before I see them in person, it’s definitely nice to see them in person from time to time. You get to check up on things. It’s definitely good to sort of build a relationship as well. But, to be perfectly honest, I just don’t want to be on the road, kind of traveling like around week to week. So, yeah, that’s just the way my input is going to work. To be honest is I’m going to be mostly remote and then when I do go to maybe I don’t know three or five tournaments a year and maybe see them once or twice outside of that, if we happen to be in the same location for whatever reason, it tends to work quite well. 0:07:06 – Jeff PelizzaroNice. So you said that you came over to work with Mike, but obviously that’s a huge jump going from Ireland over to California. Were you looking to move, change locations? Or was it simply you came across that opportunity and you’re like yeah, I got to take this. 0:07:25 – Mike CarrollYeah, it was mainly I just saw the opportunity and it suited sort of what I was doing or what I was interested in at the time, like I think I was only maybe 24 or so, maybe 25. So I was shortly finished. It was only a short time after college. I was working as a trainer, like working for myself, based in a gym, and just didn’t really have any commitments. So it was just, I was very mobile in terms of I didn’t have any ties keeping me at all, basically apart from family, but ordered matters. It was easy. So, yeah, once I was able to kind of secure work and get a visa taken care of that’s always the biggest stumbling block for anyone outside the US who wants to work in the US and I was happy to come over. 0:08:18 – Jeff PelizzaroWere there any like big surprises when you came over here? Had you been over to the States before? Were there any different big cultural shifts when you got over here? 0:08:27 – Mike CarrollI’d been to the States for two summers before that, both on the East Coast, and I did the summer caddy in New Jersey and I also did an internship with Eric Cressy in Cressy Sport Performance. But that’s a little bit different when you know you’re only coming, for they were both three periods. That’s a little bit different to kind of moving over and trying to work and get properly set up here. I wouldn’t say there was any huge cultural shifts because I had spent some time here, you know anyway, and life in Ireland and the US isn’t that different, to be honest, like the cultures and things are reasonably similar and obviously there’s no language barrier. Well, the accent is nearly a language barrier. But no, there’s nothing too major, to be perfectly honest. 0:09:22 – Jeff PelizzaroI would imagine that most people that are listening have heard of you or heard of Fit for Golf. What would you say is kind of the how would you describe your mentality when it comes to fitness and golf? I think that there’s a lot of different ways that people look at what fitness should look like when it comes to golf, and I know that you have some very strong opinions on just the way that you like to train, the way that you run the app, the way that you get you maximize your golfers potential. 0:09:55 – Mike CarrollYeah. So I think if you’re trying to work with people in physical preparation for any sport, you need to be able to determine what are the limiting factors in that sport from a physical perspective. If we look at golf, what are the demands of golf when there’s two main things that are happening in the sport from a physical perspective? Number one is we’re making golf swings and number two is we’re walking. There’s some standing around as well, but it’s mainly walking and swinging and walking. The ability to walk a golf course and sustain that is very rarely a limiting factor unless there’s a serious injury or a major medical problem. Those things are generally not particularly hard to get to a level where there’s going to be no further benefits and performance. Like there’s tons of regular everyday club players that are at a level that would be more than sufficient to be PGA tour standard in terms of walking the golf course because they’re fit of people. But then if we think of the physical qualities that are involved in swinging a golf club at a level that the best players do, then we start to see that there’s a huge golf when people tend to lack the mobility, the strength and power that higher levels of players do and club at speed has the biggest relationship between differences and playing levels. When you look at, a big population of golfers across a wide range of scores saw that as due to technical mastery for sure just differences in literally quality of swing. It’s a technique broader than a physical thing. But even at the highest level of the golf we see that that’s one of the big differentiating factors. And that’s the thing to where a wide, big interest is essentially understanding the biomechanics of the swing. What goes into a now in golfers swing faster from a mechanics standpoint, and then how could we enhance the physical qualities that underpin that? And I guess that’s it in terms of working with real high level players. But probably what I’m just as interested in is essentially trying to help people get to a very high level of fitness and physical function and then be able to maintain it for as long as possible. And what’s sort of really nice for all of us that are interested in both golf and that is that there’s huge crossover in that the things that you need to do to be in a position to swing very fast also have great transfer to just stay fit and strong and healthy and everyday life. I am thinking that for decades really. 0:12:53 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s what really resonates with me when going through your stuff and watching the way that you present information online, is that while it is totally geared towards the golfer and really a lot of it is geared towards increasing their strength, increasing their swing speed you do a great job of crossing it over into the lifelong aspects of it too, because golf is a unique sport that, unlike any others, we can play when we’re five years old and we want to continue to play until we can’t swing a club anymore, and so to really work on the longevity piece I think is so important. But you mentioned really kind of diving into the mechanics of what does it take to build swing speed? What are the pieces of the body, the movement pieces, and there is always the technique side, there’s the strengthening side and, from my perspective, where it can get kind of muddied is how do we utilize the? Are people using too much or trying to use the exercises too much to work on the technique stuff as opposed to just working on their body and the athleticism? 0:14:06 – Mike CarrollYeah, that’s something that I kind of think about and talk about a lot. Really, how I usually describe it is that I think there’s a gray area where a lot of people get stuck in and in that they try to improve their swing technique and their physical characteristics like strength and power at the same time, and what often happens not always is that they end up choosing exercises that are not specific enough to the golf swing to improve their mechanics and they’re also not stressful enough to cause any type of physiological adaptation that’s going to improve the physical quality. I know they’re way better than not doing anything, like not exercising at all, but if we’re trying to get the most out of, like our hardly limited, let’s say, training time, I think we always kind of need to ask the question like what adaptation is this leading to? Is this enhancing the function of my nervous system? Like how well I can recruit muscle fibers and get them to contract? Is it a strong enough stimulus where it’s going to increase the size of my muscle fibers? Is there enough mechanical tension? And in a lot of those exercises there’s not, and the argument that could be made sort of to refute that is well, I’m doing something that he’s going to enhance my swing technique, but oftentimes I think it’s nowhere near as effective as actually practicing your golf swing with a golf club or with drills that are way, way more specific to that. So in January, I think most people are much better off trying to use their physical training time to enhance their physical qualities, use their practice time to work on their skill and allow those two things merge together, especially when it comes, I would say, to strength exercises. If we tried to get too cute with, like, simulating movement patterns, which is where a lot of people kind of would go down the specificity of route, we started running into problems very quickly in terms of not being able to load them heavy enough or have many options for progressing the long term where we can actually make progress in the long run and like, if you think of something like, say, like a cable pulley rotation or a medicine ball throw or something like that, sure they could be used to strengthen muscles that are used in the golf swing in a reasonably similar fashion, but in terms of like the coordination and speed, they’re still a million miles away from the actual golf swing. So they’re not specific exercises really. They’re slightly more specific than something like a bench press or a deadlift, but I still wouldn’t consider them very specific. They’re definitely not like technical drills that are going to have a direct impact on your golf swing. And then the other thing is like they just get challenging to load in the long term in a way that you can make a lot of progress and compare it to things that are more general in nature, are much more similar to being loaded and building strength and power of the long term. I still incorporate them a little bit because I think they’re value, but it just needs to be, in my opinion, a very clear rationale for why you’re doing a certain exercise and there needs to be a good understanding of, like what is the goal of the training and because otherwise we can just kind of fall into the trap of doing things that, no matter how much we improved at the exercise we’re doing, it just doesn’t have much potential to move the needle at terms of our performance. 0:18:06 – Jeff PelizzaroI would totally agree that you know, not asking that simple question of what’s the goal here, and I love even further going into what’s the adaptation that I’m really trying to work on and so many of our golfers I know personally in our community and I’m sure those in the fit for golf community and I would assume a lot of there’s a lot of crossover there are. We’re all stressed for time. We’re all looking to make things as efficient as possible, and that’s a message that I keep hearing from from you is you know, how do we really make the most sense of what we’re doing with the time that we have? You know, we got to practice, we got to, we got to train, we got to eat, we got to do all of these different things that are going to move us, move the needle, move us forward. But how do we, how do we help people not waste time on, you know, things that don’t really matter quite as much? So if you could, what’s a bit of a structure that you would tell people like, hey, these are the things that you really should be working on, thinking about as you’re getting ready to jump into your golf fitness training program. 0:19:12 – Mike CarrollYeah, so, generally, if I’m advising somebody with their overall let’s say, physical training, and if we take an average, you know, let’s say working person that’s maybe 60 or 60 years old or whatever, or it doesn’t really matter what age any any adult, I would say and our older adult, I’m a big fan of trying to get people to have a slot for exercise pretty much every day. The reason for that is, I think, that if people can do that, they’re much more likely to build a habit and stick to it. It doesn’t mean that every day is going to be a long training session or a very hard training session. What like is, if you think of it in terms of long term health and physical function. There’s really two elements of training that that people have to be on top of. Number one is cardiovascular fitness, what both people refer to as cardio or aerobic training. Like there’s kind of no way of arguing with the amount of research that shows how important VO2 maxes for longevity, which is basically how aerobically fit you are, and there’s also no arguing with the importance of muscle strength. So there are the two things that I get people to focus on mainly and how. I think a really nice way to structure it is is simply have three training sessions a week for each element and that might look like something like on a Monday, wednesday, friday, somebody is going to do their strength training work. It’s going to be three total body strength training sessions where they do a little bit of lower body, a little bit of trunk and a little bit of upper body. In each session, or each one of those sessions, they’ll go through dynamic warm up so that they’re getting to work out the mobility and flexibility stuff that everybody kind of wants to work on and says they need more of. Then, on the days in between, they’re going to do some cardiovascular exercise and that might be depending on what the person enjoys. They might be on a bike, they might be jogging, they might be inclined walking on a treadmill, they could be on a roller and elliptical, they might be like pick up basketball or hockey anything that gets your heart rate elevated for a sustained period of time. It’s honestly pretty much that simple for long term physical function in an ideal world. I’d also like people to incorporate some sort of what would generally be called like explosiveness or power work or race of force development work. That’s touched on pretty well by intense strength training. Well, most people don’t know is that as we get older, obviously we have a decline in physical function kind of across the board. We’ll show a like force production standpoint we lose speed and power faster than we lose strength and we lose strength faster, lose muscle mass. So we should have make our training set up in a way to help be proactive against that. And so what it tends to look like in a training session on the one day Wednesday, friday is dynamic warm up to get warmed up and work on your mobility. A little bit of lightweight, high speed power work, which might be things like explosives kind of swings, things like box jumps, lateral jumps. You can even do like short sprints or very short sprints on a bike. For the upper body it might be some medicine ball trolls or some band work that’s very, very fast in nature. There’ll be something like hitting a punch bag as hard as you can for 10 seconds and then moving into some strength work which would be kind of in general, because it’s just very efficient is bigger cup out lifts and like swatting, hinging for the lower body, pushing and pulling for the upper body and trying to get progressively stronger in those movements and then on the dick. That’s that covers really nicely mobility, explosiveness or power and strength, and those things also cover your muscle mass. And then on the days in between, do something for your cardiovascular fitness. It makes sense to vary up those things where you have maybe one one day that’s a longer, slower day where you’re trying to get the duration up. You have another day where you’re getting the intensity up and more of make an interval type fashion, and then on the other day you could do a little bit of a mixture or something like that, and that’s that’s honestly pretty much what people need to focus on from a from a physical training standpoint. Obviously it has to be scaled to their current level. You need to take into account injury concerns. They might have to choose the bold of the exercise or exactly which exercises they’re doing. And then if somebody is also really interested in getting better at golf, they need to have some time for practice and play. They need to squeeze in some time where they do like specific swing speed training, where they’re swinging as fast as they can, ideally with a radar for speed feedback, and pretty quickly the time requirement there can start to add up. So just completely depends on how much time someone’s able to commit. What cool is that? Like, even with that, say, three day of each template, even if you only had 10 minutes each of those days, the improvements that you would make compared to not doing it is absolutely enormous and so, yeah, that’s that’s kind of the way that I’ve been sort of structuring training for a long time. I think it works quite nicely for most people and gets them a nice balance across the various different elements and there’s no variety in there that it keeps people interested. 0:25:39 – Jeff PelizzaroI love how you break it down so simply and in my personal experience, talking with so many of the different coaches that we’ve had on the show, it’s when somebody like yourself breaks it down into very simple ways of doing it, that that’s when you know we can get really caught up in the flashy exercises and doing all of the different pieces. But really it boils down to getting simplified and doing the things right. Doing the strength training, doing the warm ups, doing all of that when do you because I always find this a little troublesome sometimes with clients and working in some of the corrective exercise stuff Like, if you do have people that you’re working on some other more accessory kind of things, some isolation movements where would you throw that in in kind of that template that you just laid out for us? 0:26:32 – Mike CarrollAnd honestly, I think that I think that say, like, if we’re talking about somebody who’s who’s has an injury that they need to rehab, I train you. Rehab as much as possible the same as training, because all that you’re really doing is scaling an exercise or an activity to whatever the person is currently able to tolerate and then gradually increasing the intensity to bring them towards whatever goals that they’re trying to get to. So like, for example, if someone has a shoulder issue, their upper body pulling and pushing exercises are probably going to need to be scammed back to something that’s, you know, pretty, pretty nice, maybe a slower tempo, with lighter ways and higher reps while they’re recovering from that injury and gradually build up to where they want to get to. And another element that I think is really important there for people who do have some sort of specific issue that they’re kind of rehabbing or that is having an impact on their training is don’t let an issue in one specific body part or one specific movement derail the rest of your training. Like, for example, if you have a shoulder or knee issue, train everything around that as best as you can. Why are you bringing that level? Why do you really need that area back up to par and like I would even go so as far as, like if someone like it’s really common for senior golfers to maybe get like a rotator cuff surgery or something like that Like they I you’d often might get an email from there or something saying you know, oh, I need a, you know, six week break or whatever While I get this surgery, and I’d be kind of trying to encourage them. Like six weeks of not exercising for someone in that day range like is is not good in terms of what they’re going to lose and how hard it is to build that back up. And that’s where things like machines in the gym are so, so useful because it allows you to knowledge of muscles without having to pick up any weights. So, like you could do calf raises and leg presses, you could even do upper body pushing and pulling on the uninjured side. You could be on, you know, things like bikes and rollers that you could use, you know, without using that injured body part. So I try to not, I guess, like worry too much about getting ultra specific with corrective exercises and more so. Just scale the training plan in whatever way a person needs and gradually build it up over time, like I think the person who coined the term is Charlie Weingroth, a pretty well known like physio and strength coach, and I think the phrase he uses is that rehab is training, training is rehab. There’s no difference between them. You’re just scaling them to the, to the level that the person can currently color it. 0:29:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know, anytime you have somebody even just working on things like posture and, and you know, getting a little bit more of the the upper back and, like you said, the rotator cuff, some of those different pieces, the hips just putting a little more focus on it, and I guess you talked about even in, like the dynamic warmups. You’re doing some of the things that maybe, like the smaller exercises as you would think of, I think it’s very easy to get caught up in like I just want to go, get to the gym, I want to do, you know, for for some people I want to go do my bench press or my squats or my, and get into the bigger things, but talk about how important it is to do that beginning piece and to get your body primed and ready to go for the bigger, stronger exercises. 0:30:19 – Mike CarrollYeah, that’s a good way to put it Like if you have a well designed training program that’s covering what you consider to be, I would say, like important muscles or literally just human movement, that human function in general, and then you’re you’re making sure that all of those are covered across a training week. If you could also follow a training program like that for any reasonable period of time, that’s going to be very corrective for any issues that they have like because getting stronger, getting more mobile and getting into better physical condition is going to be, like, comprehensively corrected. There’s not going to be things that aren’t getting touched on. And yeah, I think like one of the big things about a dynamic warmup is like we have to warm up before we train anyway to reduce the risk of injury and to improve the performance in the training session. So why not do it in a way that also improves our, our long term mobility? And if you can have some stuff that works on mobility of areas that need to be mobile and commonly get stiff things like the hips, spine, shoulders, neck and a little bit of mobility work on those before each workout and just adds up really nicely over time as your mobility work, and then you don’t need to. You know, devote a lot of training sessions to mobility work. And I haven’t. I haven’t done a mobility session in 15 years. I’ve been granted it in my 30s. Some people will say, wait till you know your ex age or whatever. But on the flip side, I do a dynamic warmup pretty much every day where I’m going through full ranges of motion for my spine, hips, shoulders, neck, because I’m doing that before and practicing, or playing, or before and working out, so like there’s been improvements in mobility there, without actually ever doing specific flexibility sessions. And then the other thing is that if your strength training program is well designed and you have exercises where you’re going through a full range of motion, that’s also highly effective for improving mobility. 0:32:42 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I even saw I think it was a post that you made either on Twitter or Instagram and this might have been talking about even before a round of golf. But you said, instead of thinking of it as a warmup, think of it as a little as a mini workout. And I love, I love that, right, because you see these golf, the tour players, and when you see them in the tour trailer, they’re not doing just like a stretching routine, they’re actually kind of getting after a little bit. 0:33:10 – Mike CarrollYeah, so what it actually said was think of a warmup less as stretching out. 0:33:16 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. 0:33:17 – Mike CarrollAnd more like a mini workout. That’s right Because, like, the simplest way to look at a warmup is its preparation for the activity that’s about to go ahead and, like anyone who’s listening to this podcast is, you know, probably interested in the golf swing and being better at swinging the golf club. It’s clearly a very fast, dynamic activity. Like you go through rapid stretches, rapid contractions. It’s at high speed. Static stretching is not good preparation for that it’s. It’s very, very different to what you’re about to do. So we want to get warmed up by by moving, starting with slow movements, gradually building up to movements that are much faster and closer movement pattern to what we’re about to do with that. And what’s nice about that is those types of warmups compound over time and can actually make improvements in our physical qualities, like mobility and power, like the higher level players that I work with granted, they have more time and they have a fitness trailer at the golf course Like they all have a warmup that takes about 20 minutes Some of them actually like to do. One of them in particular likes to warm up for a little bit longer and almost, like you just said, turn it into a mini workout. But they go through their dynamic warmup routine which gets the heart rate up a little bit. It also gets them moving their hips and spine and shoulders through a full range of motion. But then they actually really like to finish the workout with things like vertical jumps, med ball throws, med ball slams, maybe even swinging like the stack or their driver like maximum speed, a few times to get really, really warmed so that when they go down to the range they don’t have to go through, like you know, 15, 20 minutes of trying to warm up and loosen up, hitting wedges and things like that. They’ll seem like that when they go to the range they could take out their driver and be ready to go without, you know, needing to get through that stiffness. And it also has the compounding effect of, if you’re doing that a few times a week before rounds, you’re going to be getting much, much more exposure to mobility and power work, which would benefits lockdown. 0:35:47 – Jeff PelizzaroTalking about swing speed. Obviously you’ve got your your stack system shared on and I know you work with those guys quite a bit and we just had Marty on the show a couple of weeks ago. You said in kind of the layout of your program if somebody is interested in the golf swing and they’re interested in getting better, that that not only practicing their golf is going to be very important, but working on their swing speed is important. And what does that look like for you and the programs that you put together for, let’s say, not the tour level guys, but just you know more of the average golfer. That’s on the fit for golf app and what can people expect if they’ve never experienced any kind of speed training before? 0:36:28 – Mike CarrollHonestly, like speed training could not be simpler, and the reason why is that there is physical capabilities, like physical characteristics that are very important, like strength and power and mobility, but it’s also there’s also a big skill element to it, and skill requires frequent practice to improve. So speed training is literally as simple as practicing swinging as fast as you can with the goal of going faster. So if you can guess a radar I think the PRG or is like I don’t have any affiliation with them I think it’s by far the best value radar on the market for speed trading. If you could do something like two or three days a week where you get warmed up and for people starting out, I think about 16 swings is a good number. As you get more advanced, you’d probably need to, like anything, build up the amount you’re doing a little bit more and maybe up to 30s or D is probably enough for the vast majority of people over in the course of like a number of months. But I keep it on the low end for as long as you can with still seeing progress. And obviously it’s that simple Like get warmed up, start taking some swings, have the radar for feedback, and having the radar also really boosts motivation and track your results and, like you, will naturally start to wrap up the speed. There’s things going on in your nervous system in terms of how well you can recruit fast twitch muscle fibers. It’s called motor unit recruitment. You’re able to send signals to the muscles faster it’s called rate coding. There are two things that happen as a result of speed training that are really beneficial. They tend to happen quite quickly. We improve the coordination of how our different muscles work together and there’s just the pure steel element of we figure out more efficient ways to swing the club, based on our bodies. Basically, and for people who have never done speed or strength training before, like for, let’s say, recreational adult golfers, it’s really common for golfers to gain 10 runs an hour club at speed in. I would say six to 12 months of training for sure. What’s interesting is that, depending from what I’ve seen, is that people who are untrained and they start speed training they can gain five months an hour in like a few weeks. The initial gains are really really quick and like the difference from gaining five miles an hour to gaining 10 miles an hour is usually like a big tougher. But it completely depends on what the person is done in the past. Like, for example, if you take the two opposite ends of the spectrum. If you take someone who hasn’t done much physical training and they have poor swing technique, they have huge, huge room for gains. Because if you only got that person to say, do workouts and didn’t work on their swing speed directly with speed training, they could probably gain five or six miles an hour with that, without really trying to work on their swing speed at all. If you got that same person and they didn’t do any workouts and they just did speed training, they probably gained similar or, to be honest, a little bit more. But if you combine both of them, like you have someone who works on speed training which is going to impact their technique. Maybe they work with an instructor that also helps with their swing and they’re doing training that’s going to prove like their strength and power. Like there’s huge, huge rule there that person might gain 12 miles an hour, maybe even more, depending on what their lowest target point is. But then if you consider, like someone on the opposite end of the spectrum, like a tour there, they already have pretty good swing mechanics. They probably already, like are aware of the benefits of being faster and have practiced some speed training and they probably already have done like workouts. They’re rather reasonable. You know level of appropriateness. So with someone like that, like if you can gain, like honestly, two or three miles an hour in like a season or two, would be hugely impressive. Like if you look at the PGA tour website where they list players, club head speeds, like there’s not many players at all gain a significant amount of speed. Like it’s impressive there’s a player gains, let’s say, two miles an hour from one season to the next, or I would say even more that three or four miles an hour from when they come out on tour to when they’re to when they’re at their fastest. That will be like really, really impressive Players your average 60 or 60 year old or 40 year old club golfers. They might gain that in a week, you know they might gain. Like, they might honestly they like actually gain that in like 10 swings because they realize, oh, I can actually swing well seven, but I’ve just been swinging 101 all the time because that’s just how I’ve been swinging. I didn’t realize if I actually tried harder there’s way more speed here. Yeah, that’s that’s what I would say. Like the people who have basically been doing less, less coaching, and have technically, let’s say, poor golf swings, have the most to gain. Like 10, 15 miles an hour is not a herd of. But then at the upper levels, like, if, like, if you’re totally engaged, three miles an hour from one season to the next, like that would be I really, unless they’re coming off, let’s say, some sort of injury or something like that, where they were clearly down from their normal, something like three miles an hour is big. I read those guys. 0:42:50 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I think that’s pretty refreshing for the that more, maybe more recreational golfer or somebody that hasn’t been working on any of it, to know. Like you know, sometimes it’s a little intimidating to get involved in some of these things and to start these things, but know that you just doing a little bit is going to give you a lot of gain 100% and, honestly, the training doesn’t even need to be hard, because when you’re a beginner to this stuff, or if you haven’t done it, not tight. 0:43:15 – Mike CarrollThe initial gains are really really easy Like they come. You honestly don’t need to work very hard at all to get initial gains and, to be honest, that’s actually what I recommend. I recommend not trying to push too hard early on, because that needs to, people either getting injured or burned out. So, yeah, like it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s nice that way. What’s interesting with training too, like and you see this across like whether it’s all in you know who, let’s say, loves to get the gym and they’re interested in you know getting their barbell it’s up or it’s. You know a runner who’s trying to get their five or 10 K times. Now, Like, there comes a point in training it’s really interesting, Like where that the early gains are very large and easy to call away. As you train more and get more advanced, they start to slow down. When that happens, what’s interesting is it’s extremely easy to maintain the progress you’ve made. So you’ll be hugely improved from where you started and maintaining that level is pretty easy, Doesn’t require much work compared to the amount of work that’s required to keep improving even a little bit. That can be huge and oftentimes like it gets to a point for people, honestly, where it’s like that’s just not work, like getting that out of this, how much I need to do it’s just not worth it. Because you know this is a hobby and doing it for fun, and it’s a case of it actually gets to a point really like where maintaining basically is progress, because as people are getting older the naturally is to decline. So if you’ve built up a high level from a few years of training, honestly being able to maintain that then for a long time and not decline is a pretty good deal, you know. 0:45:18 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, that’s exactly what Marty Jertson from Ping in the Stack told us. He said that after the age of 40, typically you’re going to see a decline of like one mile per hour per year and so just maintaining if you maintain that for 10 years that means you’re going to be 10 miles an hour faster than your cohorts. 0:45:35 – Mike CarrollYeah, and what’s important to know too for, let’s just say, more seniors, like the older golfers, is that they often ask, like, am I too old to see improvements? And they might be 50 or 60 or 75 or whatever. And I think we’re conditioned because, like, we base almost our assumptions of, say, athletes declining from watching professional sports, and we see, you know the picture, the soccer player or whoever starting to decline. You know, maybe it’s in, depending on the sport and the position, maybe it’s their late 20s, maybe it’s their big 30s or maybe sometimes it’s their late 30s or 30, 40s. So what we need to remember there is, like those are people who have been training to reach their genetic potential for a couple of decades and then they start to see a very small decline. If you’re 50 or 60 or 70 and you haven’t been training, or you’ve been training kind of lackluster, without a good program and no real direction, when you start training, you know I would say like much more efficient matter, the rate of progress that you can see can be much larger than the rate of the natural biological decline. So that’s why he’s with people when they’re 70 or 80 or he’s an older, is that people are often thinking like, oh no, that’s an age when you start to, you know, get worse and slow down. Well, yeah, if you’re not doing anything, for sure there’s going to be a decline. But if you’re training in a pretty good fashion at that age, like you can 100% get stronger, get faster and make improvements at any age. Like one of the like coolest areas of research that I see coming out is like they do strength training studies in nursing homes with people who are in their 80s and 90s and like you see enormous increases in strength in people in their 80s from like six, like even like four or six eight week training programs. Like like 50% improvements and say like quad strength and stuff like this. Like that’s really important, for if you plans of, say, be able to play golf to a reasonably high level as you get older or even just have a high level of physical function, you know let’s take a second to thank our sponsors over at 1st Phorm, and this week I want to highlight their Formula One post workout protein shake. 0:48:13 – Jeff PelizzaroI use this thing pretty much every day after my workouts because, let’s face it, being here in the gym working all the time with clients putting on a podcast, it can sometimes be tough to get my protein in on a regular basis, and so I know that with the post workout shake the Formula One first of all, it’s fast acting. So right after your workout is a great time to get your protein in to help build your muscles, get yourself stronger and repair what you’ve done in the gym. But also, if you don’t know if you’re going to be able to get your protein in your regular meals, it’s just a great way to make sure that you’re supplementing and hitting those marks. So make sure to go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG to get your 1st Phorm Formula One protein shake, and everyone that enters through that link is going to be put into a drawing every single month for free 1st Phorm products. So, again, go over to 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG. It’s funny. So we just had the Thanksgiving holiday and I was over at my parents’ house and they’re both 69, getting ready to turn 70. And I was telling them how I want to order them a hex bar for their house, because what better exercise for them to just be lifting something a little bit heavy, putting low through their joints, putting low through their bones, because so many of the studies talk about not just for any kind of sports related function, but, yeah, just general health, general fitness, longevity, and they were open to it. It was kind of cool and obviously I just order one for my house. I have a 15-year-old son who’s getting into some competitive golf and I’m like you need to start lifting some stuff that’s a little bit heavier and he doesn’t get to the gym that often. And for all of you listening, you can get a hex bar at Walmart for $75. And it’s a thousand pound capacity. It doesn’t cost a whole lot. It’s a very simple exercise. I know you’re a big fan of it Just helping the population understand that just starting to lift some and heavy for you could be 65 pounds, right. 0:50:20 – Mike CarrollWell, yeah for sure, even like. First of all, I love that. That’s the exact type of thing I like to hear. Even easier than that that I try and encourage people to do is like I love to have everybody set up with bars and plates at home and things like that. It’s a hurdle, though you can have. The easiest way, I would say, to develop a high level of leg strength at home, if you don’t want to have a lot of equipment, is do split stance and single leg exercises where you can put your body mass onto one leg. Practice like step ups or step downs off of foot stools or something like that. Do some split squats, holding like any type of weight you have available. Your muscles don’t care what they’re being loaded with. They just respond to the tension that’s put on them. You can find ways to load them pretty well without elaborate equipment. That the response to that, compared to not loading them, is huge. Yeah, like if there was one message that I could send with my social media platforms and what I try to do more than anything, it’s to guess Like I’m trying to target golfers, I guess, because that’s what my demographic is, but it’s basically just to get the average person to understand the benefits and value of resistance training. Slash strength training and golfers have created the double whammy of that. It’s really beneficial for golf and like they get two benefits out of it. 0:52:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, definitely Back to the speed thing real quick. Are there any cautions that you would have for people that are just getting started or really anyone in general, as far as, like how frequent they do it? You know how you mentioned, you know not going crazy with the amount of swings, but any other cautions for somebody getting involved? 0:52:31 – Mike CarrollYeah, and it’s not an exclusive to speed training. It’s the same thing for pretty much any activity is that you should ease into it conservatively and no matter what activity you’re doing, if you start something and you do too much too soon, that’s when there’s a high risk of injury Like that can literally happen with walking and with speed training. Obviously it’s a reasonably intense activity, but we also need to remember that people who are going to be starting speed training, they generally do have a decent background of swing, like they are generally conditioned to swinging because they practice golf and they play golf. But I like the idea of if you’re going to say to two or three speed training sessions a week, I like the idea of treating your first, maybe four weeks or so as like an induction into it and not really worrying about trying to like set and break personal records and just get your body conditioned to swinging and then gradually swinging a little bit faster than you’re used to. And if you could do that like the whole gist and exercise like is that you put a little bit more stress on your body than it’s used to and adapts to it and then gets stronger. Where that goes wrong is when we put too much stress on our body and it can’t adapt to it. And then we keep doing that. That’s when an injury usually starts to pick up. So, like slow and steady, and then what you’d probably find is that you feel better and better doing it and, naturally, like you can then start to ramp up the speed. I would say that, combined with a very thorough warm like like I mean reasonably good physical condition, I can’t imagine going from like sitting at a desk for a day’s work to swinging a golf club as fast as I can. Like that would be bad idea. So you need to have like a pretty good warm up routine and the same one that you do like. I literally do the same warm up routine before every single practice session, speed session, workout and it’s just automatic. And then before you start swinging as fast as you can, spend a couple of minutes. Take practice swings where you start medium and gradually build up to full speed. Like you could do something like a set of eight medium to like normal and then a set of eight that’s like pretty fast or close to full speed, and then you should be ready for like going as fast as you can after doing your kind of dynamic warm up. The one like thing with speed trading that’s interesting, I would say like, is that the warm up and the speed training session would probably be about equal in like like. I would say like you could get a really good like, say, speed trading session done in like 10 to 58 minutes, but the warm ups probably have to be that long too, and that’s to help not get injured and you’ll also just do way better in the session. Like. You’d be amazed at how much faster you are and how much more benefit you can get when you’re only warmed up for a session as opposed to not really being ready to go. 0:55:59 – Jeff PelizzaroWould you say that three times a week is the limit of what you would have somebody do. Speed session wise. 0:56:05 – Mike CarrollYeah, like I don’t, like I don’t know the perfect answer to this, but I would be very skeptical that there is any benefit to going more frequently than that. And even if there’s potential for very, very small gains compared to three by week, I would say that it’s probably not worth this for the rate you’re increasing, picking up an injury and like there won’t be a direct relationship between how much we do and how many gains we get. Like the amount of gains we get will start to level off and then actually get to a point where we can’t recover from it. You might actually get less improvement compared to if you did less. What we need to remember in terms of, say, stress and loading on our soft tissue, like that’s a linear relationship in that the more we do, the more it’s multiplying. And that’s where I’d be worried about picking up like big goals. Like I’ve noticed in the last maybe say four or five years, that, from what I can see, more common in golfers is injuries in like the elbows and forearms and wrists. So you let me hear a lot more of golfers elbow, tennis elbow and some wrist issues, and I think it’s primarily for two reasons. One is speed training has gotten way more popular. I think we’ve died into it headfirst without really taking, you know, the kind of gradual build up that I was talking about, and oftentimes it’s combined with. People now have way more access to practicing indoors, you know, with, say, cheaper sims and large models and stuff like that, so they have a way bigger volume of practice than they’re used to and their speed training and the volume is just too high, too soon and yeah, so in the soft tissue just can’t keep up. So, yeah, I don’t think that there’s going to be. I don’t think more than three days a week is going to be worth it, to be perfectly honest. And even two days a week people make a lot of progress with. I think we’re one. So beginners will be fine, you’d probably see some progress. But what would happen is like you say, do a session, it would take maybe a day or two to recover, but then you’re going to have like two or three days of almost like using it before you get back on it, whereas if you can do a little bit, take a day off a little bit, take a day off. Or do a little bit, take two days off. Do a little bit, take two days off from speed training. I think that tends to work quite well, but that will be certainly dependent on the person. But yeah, what I definitely don’t want someone to do is like might just be training is a good idea. I can start tomorrow and I’m going to reach 50 swings a day Like a person. I would put money on them, probably running into an issue, and that would derail their progress quite quickly, as opposed to the person who sat the two or three a week for like 50 swings. I’d be gradually built up over in the course of weeks and months. 0:59:33 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m sure you’ve had this before too, but I’ve actually had a couple clients or people reach out and say hey, I’ve been doing my speed training six days a week and I’m not really seeing a whole lot of gain anymore. Well, how about we go back to two and I bet you’ll start to see some gains again, or maybe, or maybe not, but at least you’re not going to hurt yourself. 0:59:53 – Mike CarrollYeah. So what’s interesting about like speed training and city? I learned that I don’t know if there’s some video with Chris Beardsley, the striking conditioning research guy. So he’s an English guy that does a lot of like mentorship and education for coaches, but he’s written a lot about fatigue and the different types of fatigue and how it impacts, how training while we’re still under fatigue from a previous training session or training sessions kind of inhibit progress. And one of the things that he talks about which is really interesting is that when we have central nervous system fatigue which can be built up from and not a different types of workouts, and it’s primarily related to muscle damage. So muscle damage sounds scary. That basically what happens, like after an intense workout whether it’s like if you ran for you know whatever, like 30 minutes or 60 minutes or whatever someone may do like you’re going to have some muscle damage in your calves and quads and things like that. It’s not a big deal. It’s one of the signals for your muscles to repair and get stronger. And if you do a hard workout in the gym, you’re going to have some muscle damage. And when we have muscle damage, that’s going to lead to some central nervous system fatigue. And when we have central nervous system fatigue we can’t do as good a job at sending the signal from our grade through our spinal cord to our fast twitch fibers and telling them to recruit. And that’s a problem when we’re speed training because they’re the exact muscle fibers that we’re trying to get better at using. So that’s why we like over time when we’re past the beginner stage and getting to get hired. So we need to be a little bit smart with our speed training and learning that we need to find windows when we’re as fresh as possible to do the training. That’s probably not a huge concern for people just starting out, but definitely when people start to hit plateaus or if it’s people who train a lot, like you said, and they’re wondering why they’re not approving. It’s one of the hardest things for a motivated, let’s say, athletes or people to do is that when they’re not seeing the progress, they want is to stay back the amount they’re doing. It’s really hard and I think golf attracts a lot of, say, type A personalities because it’s hard and you need to put a lot of work into it and you know the feedback is very objective in terms of like your score and your handicap. Those people have done well in other aspects of their life, like school and business and work and things like that from working harder. It’s like if this isn’t going well, I need to work harder. And I get so many emails from people and they lay out you know, I’ve been training hard, I’ve been in the gym, I’ve been doing my speed training, I’m plateauing, I’m getting worse. Like what exercises do I need to add? Or like what are the workouts do I need to do? And it’s like show me your schedule. It’s like you know probably need to like cut out some of this stuff and take like more days of rest in between things. And it’s hard because they’re used to like but now I feel like I’m not doing enough, like how am I going to get better? But generally what it does is gives them a chance to recover between their workload, because the whole like a mechanism of training is that like this is kind of the oldest cliche there is. But like we don’t improve from the training session that we’re doing, generally we improve from the stimulus that that puts on our body and then when we recover from that is when we see the improvements. But if all we’re doing is applying the stimulus and there’s not enough time to recover. We can’t make that like step by step progression and that can get hard to figure out after a while. But that’s that’s one of the things that I would I would say is important to be mindful of. Is is if you’re serious about speed training and you’re not seeing the proper suit like is, don’t be afraid to play around with doing doing less basic. 1:04:14 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s such a great point and one that I hope the people listening take to heart, and that goes for their strength training, that goes for you know, running, walking, all of it, that you know sometimes you you can just be putting too much stress and stimulus into the body and you’re never giving it time to go through that repair and recovery period. 1:04:34 – Mike CarrollYeah, and that’s that’s also like when people start to get peaks and pains or get an injury and like injuries are by far the quickest way to derail progress, generous fitness and health or getting better at golf, because when you ask when you’re forced to take time out, there’s nothing more you know insuring and there’s nothing, obviously, that ruins consistency like an injury. So there’s there’s a certain faction of people where they struggle with the motivation to exercise Like they’re more. They struggle with actually showing up and doing it and getting into a routine. But then there is definitely a faction of people where they really struggle to not push themselves to act. They’re in the mindset that more and harder is always better than that’s also a problem. And when those people are basically given like some extra time to recover and maybe they put more of an emphasis on, like their sleep and nutrition rather than just how hard they’re doing their training sessions, that’s when they really start to make progress. But they struggle because you’re literally telling them no, like two days in this week or whatever, like your job is to is to not exercise Like I want you to do, like you can go for a walk or something like that, but I want you to stay like relaxed and give your body a chance to recover. I don’t want you doing another like hit session or I don’t want you, you know, doing an extra workout for whatever reason, like that’s just delaying the recovery and you can’t make, you can’t get benefits from it. 1:06:15 – Jeff PelizzaroTotally, mike, this has been awesome. I got a couple of questions that we ask everybody at the end of the show to wrap up here so we won’t take up too much of your time. So, just like we asked everybody on the show, caddy Shack or Happy Gilmore. 1:06:28 – Mike CarrollHappy Gilmore. 1:06:30 – Jeff PelizzaroI figured strength speed. You know, it’s all all about hitting bombs, right. 1:06:34 – Mike CarrollYeah, exactly. 1:06:36 – Jeff PelizzaroIf you could pick a walk up song to the first T-Box, what’s your song? 1:06:40 – Mike CarrollYeah, DMX X, gonna give it to ya. Nice, I just thought my Spotify rapped. You know that everybody was posting yesterday. Yeah, and two of my top number one of two songs were both DMX. 1:06:58 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t even opened mine up yet, but I’m gonna guess Zach Bryan’s probably at the top of mine, but there’s some probably 90s hip hop and rapping there for sure. Yeah, is there a book that you like to recommend to people, one that maybe you’ve read, that means a lot to you and that you tend to recommend or have shared with a lot of folks, whether it be golf, fitness or just something else. 1:07:19 – Mike CarrollI go with two for like everyday life stuff. I would say Katalina Cabots by James Clear. I think it was really good. Probably a popular answer, I’m sure, but it’s really good. And then for golf, I think that everybody every like teen golfer that’s better interested in understanding golf better and improving should read every shop counts by Mark Brody. Arguably nobody has had a bigger influence on the direction that golf has went in the last 10 years or so in Mark Brody. 1:07:56 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would totally agree with that for sure. If you could pick a dream for some celebrities, athletes, whoever it might be, that you could go play golf with who’s in your for some. 1:08:07 – Mike CarrollSo I never got to meet either of my crowd sawters and they passed before I was born. So I had picked both of those and probably Rory I’m a big Rory son. 1:08:22 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, can’t imagine. Why. 1:08:24 – Mike CarrollYeah, well, when I was so Rory is, I think, maybe two years older than me so like when I was a teenager playing in Ireland growing up, rory was kind of getting what he was. He was already famous in Ireland. He was famous in Ireland from when he was quite young and then obviously his progression was very, very fast and high. So, following him for like a long time I’d love to play with him Excellent. 1:08:52 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a bucket list course that if we said, Mike, we’re flying the 18STRONG jet, we’re taking you anywhere you want to go. We have access to go to any golf course on the planet. Where are you going? 1:09:03 – Mike CarrollI think I’d really like to play at Royal County Dau in Ireland, under the condition that we get a good day of weather. There’s so many really good courses in Ireland that I haven’t played because I moved here like shortly after college, which is kind of when it’s only there when you can start before the play, that when you kind of have your own card stuff. I got to play Cyprus Point last year, which was really cool, which is probably one of the more popular ones, and I went to the Masters last year as well to watch. So I’ve seen both of those places. I think I’ve seen some pictures of what can get out and heard reports and it looks really nice. So that’s probably top of my list right now. But I’m not a huge golf course. You know sicko. Some people are like, oh my God, have you seen this place? Or they’re really interested in like golf course architecture or layouts and stuff like that. I’m not huge for that. Like I appreciate a good one if I’m there, but I don’t really have a list of courses where I have to go play here. 1:10:10 – Jeff PelizzaroGot it All right. You obviously have a very robust social media presence. Is there a social media account that you like to follow, like to watch and this doesn’t have to be in the golf realm at all that you would recommend to the 18STRONG crew? 1:10:25 – Mike CarrollSo yeah, it’s funny. I immediately thought of, like educational ones. People who listen to this show, I think need to check out Chasing Scratch and they have a podcast, youtube channel, social media presence, their podcast in particular, chasing Scratch. I would say that people would really, really enjoy. Yeah, it’s basically about two guys in their late 30s with regular jobs, families there are never any gaps and they kind of come up with an idea one day Could we get to scratch in a year? And they start to document their progress and, yeah, it goes from there and they’re both hilarious, but it also has times where it’s serious and there’s some soul searching. That’s very good. I highly recommend it. 1:11:24 – Jeff PelizzaroAwesome, We’ll definitely check it out. And last piece what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 1:11:41 – Mike CarrollIt’s pretty cliche, but I saw it depends. I’m going to go with two. So number one is that you can’t get away. If you want to get really good at golf, you can’t get away from the importance of ball and striker. 1:12:00 – Jeff PelizzaroYou have to hit a lot of greens. 1:12:03 – Mike CarrollIf you look at the statistics between greens and regulation and average store hand-to-hand count, that relationship is very true. You have to get good at hitting the ball. You have to get used to making a lot of boring cheap-blood prayers. Obviously that requires a lot of work and time to put into it, but in terms of how somebody could maybe improve tomorrow is just trying to be present and actually follow the mantra of one shot at a time. What that means is that you’re not allowing how previous shots in the route have wiped or what the outcome of the upcoming shot might mean for your score or your handicap or place in the tournament affect how you approach the current shot. Hearing Try and treat each golf shot as a separate entity. Something that I try and do when I’m playing it might sound kind of weird but I guess like a land-shot or something that I have is I try and be the world’s best caddy to myself. I try and essentially talk to myself in a way that if I was working for my best friend or my player and trying to have them do as well as possible over each shot in the round, that’s kind of the way that I try and approach it. 1:13:26 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s probably helped save you from trying to make a few of those hero shots out of the trees cutting a ball around 100%, like I would say. 1:13:36 – Mike CarrollAn area where I’ve had to get better on the golf course and I still fall into a trap is getting too aggressive with second shots on pair of fives, what I’d not in a great position off the tee or there’s trouble over on the green because you’re thinking these are the holes where you should make birdie, should be up around the green in two, and then all of a sudden it can be really hard to make prayer. Scott Flossus has a product system called Decade which has some really good stuff about that for any kind of very keen golfers. 1:14:18 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, we actually just had Scott on the show just a couple of weeks ago. 1:14:22 – Mike CarrollYeah, his stuff is really really fantastic. 1:14:25 – Jeff PelizzaroReally. Yeah, it’s awesome. All right, my friend, this was awesome. I’ve been sitting and talking to you for another couple of hours, but this has been so great to finally meet you in person, kind of, and get to know you. But pick your brain a little bit and I know the 18STRONG crew is totally going to go check out all of your stuff if they’re not already on your platforms. But can’t thank you enough for the time and just keep up doing the great work, man. 1:14:48 – Mike CarrollThanks, jeff I appreciate it. 1:14:53 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and if you found this episode helpful, don’t forget to share it with your friends. And, of course, go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG. Thanks again. We’ll catch up with you next week. Stay great hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Eric Schaetty (Schaetty Strength & Fitness)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 359Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Welcome to another exciting installment of the 18STRONG Podcast, where we have the pleasure of hosting our good friend Eric Schaettyy from Schaettyy Strength and Fitness. Tune in as we navigate Eric’s remarkable journey from a 12 handicap to a 4.9 handicap golfer within a year, highlighting his background in the fitness industry and his unique training approach tailored for golfers. Discover how his passion for fitness and golf influenced his professional world and led him to work with more golfers. Get ready to immerse yourself in a discussion about the intersection of golf, fitness, and sobriety. Eric shares how golf has become a therapeutic outlet for one participant who has been sober for 12 years. We also stress the power of consistency in achieving fitness goals and highlight the strong friendships formed within our community. Later, we explore the significance of strength and balance training in golf, and how these elements enhance the overall movement in the swing. Listen as we break down the benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, sharing personal experiences of how simple practices like walking have yielded better results than intense workouts. We share our thoughts on starting small and gradually increasing intensity, as well as the benefits of strength training for overall health and injury prevention. Finally, Eric reveals his bucket list course, Riviera, and recommends following Barbell Medicine on social media. Get inspired as Eric encourages us to start today, emphasizing the importance of seizing the moment rather than waiting for a “do-over” in life. This episode is packed with valuable insights that every golfer, fitness enthusiast, or anyone looking to improve their physical and mental well-being shouldn’t miss! Main Topics (00:03) Golf Transformation and Fitness Journey Eric Schaetty’s golf journey from 12 to 4.9 handicap, consistency in fitness and golf, adapting training for golfers, and understanding tendencies on the course. (10:50) Training and Background in Sports Equipment and athletic background shape a golfer’s swing and success, as seen through a guest’s experience with a stiffer shaft and background in hockey and martial arts. (19:38) CrossFit, Strength Training, and Fitness Goals Fitness and golf are discussed, emphasizing individual goals and incorporating weightlifting for strength and fat loss. (32:08) Balance and Strength in Golf Training Vertical jumping, lateral rotation, and balance training are crucial for golf fitness and building relationships through the sport. (37:22) The Benefits of Golf in Sobriety Golf, fitness, and sobriety intersect in our community, emphasizing consistency, strong friendships, and the power of walking for physical and mental well-being. (40:16) The Power of Consistency and Walking Nature’s benefits of walking and consistency in fitness routines, starting small and incorporating strength training for long-term health. (47:55) Start Today Fitness and golf expert Eric Schaettyy shares his journey, training program, and love for Caddyshack and recommends Barbell Medicine. Follow Eric Schaetty Instagram: @eschats82 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 359 with Eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This week is an exciting one for me. I have a really good friend of mine, eric Schaetty from Schaetty Strength and Fitness, on the show. Eric is one of my really good friends. We play a lot of golf together. We actually work together. He actually works outside of this facility with me, and we get to talk to Eric about his golf transformation. Not only his golf transformation, but Eric has an extensive background in the strength and fitness and conditioning world as well, and so we’re talking a lot about both his journey as a golfer and his fitness journey, but also how he has then taken that into his professional world and what he’s doing now, working with a lot more golfers compared to his initial start in the fitness industry, which really began with him working in martial arts and crossfit and a lot of traditional weightlifting. So today’s episode is great because we’re talking about not just different training styles, but we’re talking about what Eric did himself to go from a 12th handicap last year at about the same time, down to a 4.9 handicap, and it involved much less in regards to practice and technique than you would likely think. And so we dive really deep into what he did, how his workouts impacted that, but ultimately, from a golf standpoint, what he did. Then we discuss different training styles and how he’s kind of changed his tactics from his initial start to now working with golfers and how that impacts what you do yourself in the gym. And what’s really neat is that we talk about how, if you’re somebody who’s just kind of getting started again or getting back into the gym, how you’re going to benefit so much more than somebody that’s been working out for a long period of time. So if you’re nervous about doing that, we talk about why it’s so important that you just get started. And then, lastly, we talk about the importance of consistency over everything and how being consistent with the goal is naturally just going to produce the results. But oftentimes we don’t dive into being consistent. We rely more on our motivation, which can wane, and ultimately that can lead to failure in your goals, failure in your training program, failure in your golf practice. Whatever goal you have, you have to be consistent in the process to achieve the goal. So you’re going to really enjoy this episode with, as we call them, buddy E. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strongcom slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strongcom, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview Eric Schaetty, buddy E. Welcome to the 18STRONG podcast. How are we doing? Good to be here, glad to be here, great to be here, great to finally have you. This is cool. So this is episode 356. For those of you that watched it or listened to it, we had our buddy, bobby Drummond, on in our first GoForge Yourself episode. This episode, I think, is going to be a little bit of a hybrid. You haven’t gone through the forge or anything, but I want to kind of tell your story, but your expertise is also in the fitness industry many, many years 15 plus years in the fitness industry. We work together on a daily basis. We’re running these in this podcast office Unbelievable. But you are also part of the 18STRONG crew and one of the most golf obsessed people that I’ve ever met in my life but have made a huge transformation in your golf game over the past year and then in your fitness over the past couple of decades. So we’re going to talk about all of that. So again, welcome, and I’m excited to dig in this. Finally, glad to be here. This is made it to the show. So tell the folks listening at home, the crew, a little bit, just about your golf journey just this last year, just because I think we’ll start there and then we’ll dive in everything. 0:04:45 – Eric SchaettyIt kind of started more. We was in the pit here and I was all winter banging balls in the pit, hitting, hitting, hitting, trying to shallow the club, shallow the club it’s all you hear. Now that’s the craze. I was like just trying to like make the perfect swing, record my videos over and over and over and was really trying to get after that and was really like just trying to develop a good swing, finally developed some elbow tendonitis and my elbows were bothering me. But I play hockey too. So I was thinking maybe is it from hockey, Is it from a wall to my hockey stick. I really didn’t know what was going on so I was like, all right, well, spring comes along, we’ll get out of the pit, we’ll go start playing some golf. I joined a club, pretty much playing every day I would say Almost. I was so happy. My wife can find out for that. Yeah, so can my kids. But just started going and just playing golf, got out of the pit and went and just started playing golf, finding out what my misses were, what my yardages were, and just started to kind of get around the course instead of being in a pit and not really seeing where the ball was going or anything like that. So it started out with just all right, what are your misses, what are your tendencies, what am I doing wrong? And it started from the tee and then worked my way towards the green. So it was like all right, what do I do with my drive? Started with that and then started kind of chipping away. All right, let’s get closer. What are my yardages for all my clubs carry. And then from a hundred yards in, that’s where, like right now, I’m truly trying to like the bread and butter of the game is from a hundred yards in. I think it was. It was a Gary player said he gets like a 15. Any cap led him hit a tee shot and will be a three tomorrow if he plays the rest of the shots. So kind of took that and just played all summer and went from probably a 12 last year to now about 40 at 4.9, which I’m not sure I could this morning 4.9. 0:06:57 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you know, as an outsider kind of looking in on this, I was able to. You know we were here. We’re banging balls together and talking, swing and, and you know, doing all this in the gym here. But it feels to me like one of the turning points was you booked a lesson with our buddy, casey, who, casey Cox, has been on the show as well and I’ll let you tell the story. But it almost and kudos to Casey Casey was almost like dude, yeah, like you don’t need, you don’t need a bunch of lessons. 0:07:26 – Eric SchaettySo Casey, great, great coach, great instructor, I mean, he is literally like, he makes you feel so comfortable, Like as soon as the lesson starts you want to say a word, you just you just start hitting balls and he doesn’t. He just sits there, it’s got his thing going and got you all hooked up. He’s banging balls, banging balls. I’m hitting balls and he, all of a sudden he goes hold on. He’s like why, why are you here? He’s like what, what are you doing? He goes you hit the ball. As far as I do, your path looks fine. There’s something like crazy going on. He’s like what are you here? So, and that’s why I was like well, listen, my driver distance does not correlate to my irons. I’m hitting my iron. You know my. You know seven iron, 165 carry. Why am I not hitting my driver 275 yards? I see guys hitting 165 for their seven iron. They’re blasting their driver and I’m only carrying mine 225 yards. So he’s like all right, we’ll get your driver out. So we hit a few. He’s like all right, all right. He’s like he grabs the club. He goes give me that. Looks at it for a second. He’s like you’re playing with an old man shaft. He’s like and this head is doing you no justice. He’s like you need to get a different driver shaft, you need a different head and I think that’ll help your driver. So it was like okay. So then Andrew, our other friend, he he’s like well, I got an extra driver. If you want to buy it off me, it’s stiff shaft title list. You want to give it a try? And then, kind of after that, I was like all she wrote. Yeah, I was all she wrote. So the driver got dialed in and then it was like let’s just take those next steps. 0:09:04 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, for those of you that aren’t watching, and even those of you that are watching, give me, give me the dimensions. How tall, how heavy are you? 0:09:13 – Eric SchaettyI am about 55 and a half and 135 hundred and 40 pounds on a good day, and that’s on a good day and in our group so we you know mandatory golf Friday. 0:09:24 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’ve had our trips down in Nashville. We play with a wide array of guys, a lot of different levels of golf, and I mean I’d say you’re in the top three or four guys as far as distances, and that includes, you know, a couple former professional guys that that we play with. Yeah, so did you see, and I’m one of the reasons that I love having you on here is because you’ve done what so many of the listeners and all of us have really want to do. Right, like we all say, we want to get faster, we all say we want to do all these things, but ultimately we want to score better, we want to play better, and we want to do that having fun with the game too, and go from a 12 down to below a five handicap, right. So over the course of this last year, when you first switched out that driver I know you immediately liked it Did you see, over the course of a year, just your distance just kind of slowly get longer and longer because you got more comfortable? Was it a confidence thing in your swing? What was the change there? 0:10:17 – Eric SchaettyIt was, it was really honestly, it was a confidence. And then the feel, like the feel of the club and knowing that like if I transfer my weight, this club is not going to be whipping around and doing crazy things, and because I could feel with my other club like I would have it in my backswing and I would go to transition and it would literally feel like I had a noodle in my hands. I just did. I was yeah, I did and I just had no confidence to transfer and get to my left side and get turned over and transfer all that weight. I was just so just scared to do it. So once I got that stiffer shaft the better than different driver it was like all right, just swing, just swing. You know that you can swing fast enough, just swing the club. So there’s more or less like all right, you got the right equipment. That’s partially sometimes issues. I was like you just don’t have the right equipment. Yes, I had no idea that I was playing with the wrong equipment. So I think it was more confidence and knowing that my body can just go and you don’t really have to think about it. 0:11:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So I want to talk a little bit about your background in sports because, you know, obviously training is what you do on a daily basis. I see what you do in the gym for yourself, I see what you do with your clientele and you start even working with a lot more golfers too. So I want to kind of talk about a little the transition of maybe how you are training them a little differently than some of the other folks you have in the past. But your background, you know, is in hockey, some martial arts, and when I watch you swing a golf club it’s a super smooth, almost feels a little effortless kind of swing. It doesn’t look like you’re trying to swing out of your shoes. But I mean your smash factor has to be so good because of the distance and we were talking the other day swing speed wise. 0:12:03 – Eric SchaettyI mean it’s not crazy speed either, right, no, no, what your speed is Go no off the top of my head, but I would say probably 105 somewhere in there, 105, 110. Yeah, you know I’m worried if you’re really getting after probably yeah, nothing wild, yeah, and I’m not swinging like a Torpro or anything wild like that, but yeah, it’s probably around 105 to 110. 0:12:26 – Jeff PelizzaroSo your background in those sports and I’m really curious to. We’ve talked a lot about hockey players on here but I’m even curious about, like, the Muay Thai and kickboxing and like I would imagine that that that quick hips, you know hip driven stuff, that makes a big difference. 0:12:42 – Eric SchaettyI was thinking about that and I was like you know, the crazy thing is that you talk about the hockey and that I’m a left handed hockey player. The only thing I do, left handed, as I shoot a hockey stick the opposite direction that I swing a golf club. So it’s like that. You know people would think, oh, I will, you do. You’re swinging the opposite direction of your golf club. So I was like you know what? What is it that made my golf swing so much different than any anybody else’s or the guys would play with? And then I thought about it. There are so many leg kicks that I have thrown, or punches that where you have to rotating your hips and it’s fast, it’s over and over and over and over. Throwing leg kicks over and over and over. And I think it has a lot to do with throwing the leg kicks, throwing the punches that you’re, you’re jittering that hip, that torque and all of that speed and through your hips and through your legs. 0:13:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I would imagine that really never really thought about it this way. But of all sports, something like that where you’re striking on a continuous basis, you know, when you’re you’re training, you might not be going boom, boom, boom, you know, but you’re, you’re striking, relax striking. That’s a little bit more like the golf swing compared to almost any other sport In movie tie. 0:14:02 – Eric SchaettyThey actually like you’re not. It’s not like kickboxing, and in that kickboxing you know it’s a lot of volume throw kicks and you want to throw them hard. In movie tie you are hitting to hurt. Like you throw a leg kick, you’re trying to chop their leg down, like that is literally what you’re trying to do. You’re trying to kick their leg as hard as you possibly can. So I think there’s a lot of that like transfer. It’s like, well, as soon as you get that pattern laid down, it is almost effortless. When you throw a leg kick it’s, you don’t even think about it. I mean, there’s some great MMA fighters. There was an interview I saw the other day. It was a Pereira, this guy who just fought and he was messing around Daniel Cormier and he goes all right and Cormier goes. He was Brazilian guy goes, throw 30%, 30% and he literally just barely tapped him and it looked like Cormier was going to fall over. And so it is. There is that transfer, but it’s a forceful power transfer? 0:14:56 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you think that that plays into? You know, talking about kids growing up and playing and we talk about speed all the time now, but kind of talking about the way that Jack Nicholas talked about this getting kids to just swing as fast as they can in order to gain speed early, because that that, Like you said, the pattern gets ingrained, the muscle memory gets ingrained. 0:15:19 – Eric SchaettyYeah, absolutely, and it’s you need to. When you’re young, when you’re a kid, there is no fear, and when we get older, it’s like I don’t know what’s going to happen in my back. I’m like I’m throwing my shoulder out and you know like you’re so worried about how hard you’re going to swing because you might hurt yourself. So I think a lot of it when you’re a kid, you know just as well as I do, like our kids are fearless. They do not, they will do anything. So I think, as when you’re really young and you get them into something, just let them start to say sweet spashes, you can’t go ahead. I mean because the odds of them getting hurt, I mean, are fairly low. We just swing your golf club, right? 0:15:54 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd, I think, repercussion wise, on the golf course they don’t care as much either. Right? So they’re losing dad’s golf balls, they’re not losing their own golf, they’re not typing their gin hand out. Yeah, so let’s talk a little bit about your world of fitness. What? What got you really involved in the training side of things? When did you start with the martial arts? Did you do that as a little kid or was that something? No? 0:16:17 – Eric SchaettySo growing up it was just hockey. I mean I did you know COIC, soccer and all that growing up, but it was mainly hockey, did a little bit of D2 club hockey in college Really was just hockey I did. I really didn’t lift weights in high school. We didn’t have like a like you know, these kids nowadays you have like an after school training program. You’re going oh, why is conditioning Isn’t that? We had none of that. I mean, it was basically you were on the ice and that was it. I didn’t touch weights. I mean. Besides, you know curls in your basement, you know, get started under the bar. Yeah, the, the, the sit around, double. It’s like it really was just that. And then basically it was in my around 2007, when I was out of college 2008, a friend of mine who worked in the bar industry with me. He was a trainer at club fitness and the old Rock Hill location, which is like a gymnastics place now, and I was just one in there one day and he kind of showed me a few things and I was like I just want to start lifting weights I’m not trying to and it was kind of the time I was getting into the martial arts a little bit and I was just like I need to learn how to lift weights, can you help me? And he helped me a little bit and through the course of like that year, I like just transformed myself. I transformed my body. Um, it was kind of like wow, this is, this is cool. Like I feel great, Like I love the way I feel, I love what I’m doing for myself, like I was like this is really uplifting. And then me, at the time I was working in bars, I was like so that same guy. I went to him one day. I was like, hey, how, how do we get a job doing this? Like I love the way I’m done this for other people. Where do I start? Like. And he was like all right, well, we’ll get you signed up or whatever. And we, you know, you got to get this certification or that certification. So I went and got to do NASM and a little trial period. But it was literally I was basically walking in the door talking to an old friend and just kind of like you know, dove in head first, yeah. 0:18:09 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd you I mean you made a pretty significant transformation in your body, in your fitness, your lifestyle, you know so. You’ve done all of that. What was your journey then into the training side? I know you worked in CrossFit. Do you weight lift? You know weight lifting certifications. What was the journey then, kind of you know, up until where we are now? 0:18:29 – Eric SchaettyYeah. So when I was a little lot younger I mean, I was not even like towards the beginning of my training side, my training career I was still like even when I was doing martial arts, like some of that, I would go out after practice and I was still smoking cigarettes. I was like I’m drinking beers, like I was not the fast food, just not the bastion of health. So once I got into the training side of it, I’m like all right, this doesn’t correlate with my image. I can’t walk in smelling like cigarettes, I can’t you know be eating fast food and whatnot. And it was like, all right, well, the Muay Thai, that training was over and I was like I need something more competitive. Like I’m really ultra competitive, I’m over competitive. So I’m like what can I do? And that’s when I found CrossFit a buddy of mine, it was the old CrossFit St Louis when I was over in a hand-lead industrial. It was like a swag when they say a box. Yeah, it was literally. It was a pull-up bar, some weights and that was it right. So I got into that. That’s super competitive. With it, you know, I got my first muscle of them. I was after that like it kind of took off and that was like all right, I really love this. I did CrossFit for a long time. I did CrossFit for five or six years something like that you ever take and I got ultra obsessed, started coaching it like was studying USA weightlifting certifications and just like was really like just engulfed in CrossFit. And I will say, like CrossFit, that’s the one thing CrossFit has done is A, is or two things actually. Community, yeah, totally Like you cannot put their community up against well, maybe ours, but you can’t really put it up against any other like community out there. Like they are so close, they’re so tight. And two, what it’s done for just fitness and weightlifting in general. You can go drive down the street now and buy barbells, yeah, and buy weights and buy plates. Without CrossFit, none of that is possible. You wouldn’t have show me weights. You wouldn’t have a lot of these different places where, like, you can just walk down the street and like I’m going to go squat today and I’m going to go drop in while I’m out of town. I’m done that. I’m going to Florida and be like, hey, do you guys mind if I just, you know, back over in the corner and squat. So you know, got to CrossFit, you know, got into these different certifications and just like, basically the CrossFit helped me a lot with the CrossFit, with like learning all the basic foundational lifts and all that, and then some of the other certifications are great, but it’s the experience I’ve acquired over the 15 years and it’s like I’ve just learned so much over the past 15 years as far as just in the gym experience and then just kind of like all right, what actually does work? What actually you know what anecdotal stuff actually works? So it really wasn’t. Oh well, you know I’m done with CrossFit. It was more like all right, let’s dive into the strength side of this a little bit more. And that’s when I kind of got into the strength side of it. That’s where I’ve been at kind of ever since, you know strength side and then kind of getting away from the hard cardio and diving back into the golf world. 0:21:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah. So you and I have been working together on a year and a half year, something over two years, over two years now. So one of the things that I noticed because we didn’t know each other at all before then was just the way that you train with your clients. You know a lot of barbell stuff, a lot of strength related stuff and, obviously, small gym. We listen to each other’s conversations, how we talk to our clients, and I really like the way that you explain to your clients. You know why you’re doing this. You’re really big on teaching them accountability, on learning their lifts themselves and being able to do this stuff on their own right, and so I want to kind of go into some tactics on different goals that I think a lot of the crew has, because with golf it’s different than any other sport, because we could have somebody listen to the show that’s an 18 year old male or female, we could have somebody that’s a 75 year old male or female, and all of them want to get better at golf and if they’re listening to this show, they want to figure out what’s the right thing for them to do body wise, fitness wise. But, as I know that you have told so many of your clients, you have to really focus in on. What’s the main thing that you want to focus on, right? Is it your strength? Is it your fat boss? Is it you want to just move better, to swing the golf club better? Is it you want a better golf swing? All of those different pieces are different. What would you say are some of them? And we’ll just kind of talk big rock things regarding the differences between if you want to get strong, if you want to lose some weight, and maybe the third one, if you want to just get moving better. What are some of the things that you would say like, hey, for strength, you got to do this, fat loss, you got to do this. There’s a lot of variables, yeah, yeah. 0:23:27 – Eric SchaettyThe majority of people, though I think that a lot of times a everybody is terrified to a lift weights, to go into a gym to do any of that stuff. So, first off, that you know, reassuring people that the rate of injury for weightlifting is that of non contact sports you can get hurt just as much swimming as you can, lifting weight and like. So that’s the first thing I would say to people is, like, listen, you’re not going to get hurt doing this, Just commit to it. And then most of the people that are listening are probably I’m just assuming most are not lifting weights yet, right? So most of them are going to get the best of both worlds You’re going to get stronger and you’re going to build muscle at the same time. Right? You don’t need, you, don’t? You don’t have to pick and choose which one you want to do, Because once you get more trained as you well know, is that you have to pick one another. All right, am I going to get stronger or am I going to build muscle? That’s your point. So I would say, for the strength side of it is that I would start with just basic things as far as just picking something up off the ground, some type of hip hinge, some type of squatting and it doesn’t even have to be squatting If you would rather do a leg press because you feel more comfortable doing a leg press start with that for strength. The thing is is that strength? The definition of strength would be for your bodies to contract against an outside resistance. It doesn’t matter what it is to start, just put something in your hands, get a bar on your back if you want, but it doesn’t have to be anything like you see on TV or you hear about. So, as far as strength goes, just start doing something that’s going to put your body against an outside resistance. 0:25:12 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are a couple of things you mentioned leg press or squatting and hinging. I mean, are those the big ones for you? 0:25:19 – Eric SchaettyYeah, most of my training and the most of the way I do train people, is that there’s always the three main lifts. You’re going to do something like a hip hinge. You’ll do something about squatting, whether it’s split squat or something like that and then you’ll do something like a horizontal or vertical pressing based on their limitations. A lot of people struggle with overhead pressing or an overhead press, so you can always modify those things, but you just start with those things foundationally and then find out what drives a person, because the results, the success of a program, is 100% adherence. If you’re not going to adhere to the program, you’re not going to have success. So, find something that you want to do. If somebody says to me hey, eric, yeah, squatting is cool and all, but I want huge arms, cool, I’m going to sprinkle on some arm stuff. Or you can sprinkle them for yourself, if you wanted to sprinkle on some arm stuff, or you want to do all of my back to get bigger, and you can do that. You know, sprinkle on things that you enjoy, because if you don’t enjoy those things, you’re not going to adhere to it. You’re not going to adhere to it. Fat loss Fat loss is dependent on, you know, changing your metabolism right, the way you change your metabolism change your body composition. If you build muscle, you’re going to change your body composition. So, just starting out with just some strength training builds muscle, which changes your metabolism, and you’re already ahead of the curve because you’ve already killed two birds with one stone. You’ve built some muscle. Now you’ve changed your metabolism. Well, guess what? If you’re changing nothing else, you’re going to change how you look, yeah, and you’re going to burn some fat, yeah. 0:26:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd the mean time, more muscle means more, more burning of calories, which means, you know, a bit in calorie deficit, or you know. And then obviously the there’s the food component to to the fat loss, right, but Jeff is, it is a is a chat that we have in this gym many, many times and ultimately, you know, once you get past that the initial phase where just strength training is is doing the trick, then you have to start to dial that in. 0:27:26 – Eric SchaettyYeah, yeah, I think a lot of times people get very, I think, over the, you know, I would say, the past few decades there’s a lot of like earmongering of you can’t have this, or you can’t have that, this diet’s the best, or this diet’s the best or no, no, no, don’t touch that. Or you know, and people just like, literally, if you went through all the things people tell you you can’t have, you would almost have an empty plate. If you like, oh, there’s pesticides on those leaves. Or don’t drink that soda because that has aspartame, or, like you would literally be able to eat that tomato because it’s got yeah you’d be drinking water and that is it. So the nutrition side of it would be pick something that you want to do, because all diets have one common factor and that’s a caloric deficit Yep. So if you want to do intermittent fasting, cool. If you want to do the keto diet, cool. If you want to do high carb, low fat, that’s fine as well. Just start picking one thing and work on that. I’m going to eat better for breakfast, I’m going to wake up every day and I’m going to have enough protein to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, which is the process of building muscle. So start with that and then just start small goals and just work your way up the ladder instead of like all right, here we go. First of the year, I’m doing it at all Right, and before you know it, like two weeks down the road, you’re like all right, that didn’t go too well, what am I supposed to do next? So I think it’s nutrition is a lot about small goals. Work on one thing at a time after you have the you know, the strength side dialed in and just little building blocks along the way. 0:29:00 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them, them helping their customers get real results, aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually living them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. Bring your other website, 1stphorm.com/18strong, forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stphorm.com/18strong that’s P-H-O-R-Mcom. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that is purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. I know that you just recently have started working with a lot more golfers, a lot of people from your club, which is really cool. When you’re now taking a lot of your traditional training style and you’ve been doing this for yourself too, working in some things for your own golf game. Have you changed anything specifically in the way that you’re training them or in the way that you’re training also for the golf purposes? 0:31:24 – Eric SchaettyYes. So as far as the training goes, so foundationally and I’ve noticed this is that strength is a vital component of the golf swing in you and it doesn’t have to be the sense that people think they need a strong squat, they need to put 315 on the bar and be squatting 315 for multiple reps. No, you don’t. If you come in and say, alright, I was squatting my body weight three months ago, now I’m squatting a kettlebell that weighs 53 pounds, guess what you’ve gotten strong. Yes, and that is going to correlate over to Training. So I don’t necessarily have to do barbells with them, I don’t. I just try to get them to do some type of squat, hinge press. We’re just gonna get them a little bit stronger and then we’re throwing in. I’m trying to and I’m doing a little more research with this is that you see a lot of correlation to Vertical jumping, height, how high somebody can jump, or the vertical force and a golf swing. You also see a lot of lateral rotation, static positions, things like that. So I do like to sprinkle in some lateral rotation stuff. I like to focus on, you know, slamming whether it’s side slam, whether it’s an overhead slam, rotations, front leg, and then the really the big thing that I am new to, especially with my clients that I’ve taken from the club, is balance. A lot of them just don’t Understand how to transfer from the right side to the left side or a left and a golf, yet left to right. Is that a lot more balanced stuff? Transferring one leg, being on one leg, focusing on finding your balance in your feet and then being able to transfer from one side of the other so it’s still the foundations of strength. But then you’re throwing in a little snippets of like alright, we’re on balance today and you we’re gonna work on your. You know your vertical, your vertical jump or and when I say vertical Jump it doesn’t mean that I know how I’m doing like crazy box jump, right, I think. But just get them to a move faster and Be get them to move a little more powerfully, yep, so I think I’ve incorporated a lot more of that into the golfer side of it. Worse, most of my other clients were really not like I’m not gonna do a lot of that stuff with right, a little more traditional, with strength stuff. 0:33:38 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, what I found with the you know, the balance stuff. I mean initially, when somebody says balance, they think, oh, standing on one leg, those. But it’s more than that. And I find that a lot of golfers feel like they’re not flexible enough to get into whatever position. But a lot of times it’s it’s more their balance, like they just don’t know how to hold a position or the body hasn’t been there. And so once you start to put them in these different situations when you’ve got them in a split stance and then they’re throwing a ball or they’re rotating with a cable, they’re like, oh, they’re a little unsteady. But as they do that week after week, then it’s like, oh, I can actually move better through my motion. It’s not because you do a bunch of stretches and you do. You know a lot of these long duration holds where or you’re working on getting them all the way into the backswing or position holds. It’s no, you’re just more balanced and you’re comfortable and you’re understanding what your body needs to do in a swing. 0:34:27 – Eric SchaettyYeah, and that was another, as he was Lee Trevino. Remember watching the video about having. He said you could take you know he lives at the driving range and looked at the range. He said take all these golfers, I could work on their swing right now, we could do all these things to it. He goes, they’re gonna show back up tomorrow and they’re gonna do the same thing they were doing before I said anything. So a lot of these people like I’m not, I’m not trying to change your swing, I’m just trying to get them to understand. Like, listen, when you get here, this is when this goes. Like I had said something to John sharing the other day. I was like you do you understand? Like, before you start the downswing, your body’s actually moving in the opposite direction. And they’re like what, wait a minute, with what do you mean? Like your body’s moving in two different directions at one point and died. So it’s things like that, like you said, getting to understand that your body’s gonna be moving in two different directions and you’re gonna have to find that balance in between those two. 0:35:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, this is mentioned. John and Sharon. It’s kind of cool to see that you have people from your club. You mentioned it. Randy is yeah, randy Ray, one of the first clients that came over from the club. Tell the story. Oh yeah, randy’s all the client. 0:35:32 – Eric SchaettySo I ended up in the club championship this year first round. I just got back from Florida. The first round went well. You know, knock the guy out in the 19th hole in the first round. So the second round had a play Randy. Nobody really knew it. It’s not like we had him bar fight. 0:35:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s about the guy on the night? 0:35:51 – Eric SchaettyThe guy out. Yeah, you know I got a little iffy out there, but uh, but yeah. So I beat Tony in the first round. So I had Randy. Nobody knew anything about Randy either. So you know, these guys like, oh my god, randy’s such a nice guy, he’s such a cool guy, you’re gonna love it, like great. So I know, plan Randy. Randy goes on a heater last four holes, shoots three under on the last four holes, comebacks, beats me. So they’re walking up back to the cars. He’s like, oh so your trainer, huh, he’s, you know, kind of shakes his head. He’s like well, have to get your number. He’s like I might have to come see you. So he’s like, after I get back for my trip, give me a call. So I texted him and next thing, you know, here I have a client now. So it was like I I lost the match but I gained a client. I did, I gained a friendship. You know we played, you know, random golf together. Now like we’re friends now. So it’s like that Bridging the, the golf was kind of like the entry into, like this friendship and the relationship and like I see a lot of it Like with our crew, is that it’s. It’s more than like CrossFit. When I left CrossFit and went home, that was kind of it right, like, yeah, you spent an hour with them, now was a. You went home, you know some people you got close with, but a lot of these guys like you’re spending four hours Together rent just talking about whatever, shooting the crap you know, like whatever you’re doing and it’s I think the community in golf is so it’s it’s it’s way different than anything I’ve ever like through myself. That I think it’s really opened my eyes, like it you can do, and especially with my sobriety I don’t think we’ve talked about that very much. Is that especially like yeah, I’m like 11 years, that well, 12 years, 12 years sober is that I Can go out with people that are drinking, that are on the golf course and Still have a good time and that even like on my own, it’s therapeutic for me to go play 18 holes, walk 18 holes by myself, clear my head, even if I have a bad day. It is literally like the most therapeutic thing I think I’ve ever done for my sobriety. That’s awesome. 0:38:00 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think that that’s what’s so cool about you know the community that we’re building here. You know you and I and the gym and Dave here at Empire Fitness Academy but 18STRONG just in general in our mandatory golf Friday. It’s like it’s taking a little bit of that that CrossFit feel. You know some of the workout stuff that we do, but then the golf stuff. I mean so many friendships have developed outside of just you know, mandatory golf Friday start out with a lot of Myself, ryan and different people that we knew that came and played with us right. And now it’s it’s cool to see like guys in our group, like you and Bobby and Brian going and playing in these tournaments and you know getting together outside of any kind of affiliated events and it’s just so neat to see it all come together and everybody you know enjoying and I gotta give I chill it’s talking about. Yeah, like it’s so cool. I had some of the best friendships that I think a lot of us have had in recent years because you know you can, you could talk about a lot of stuff on the golf course or you can learn nothing about the guy that you’re playing with right, like, like. 0:38:58 – Eric SchaettyI don’t know me. You’re like you guys said talk about that divorce. Oh and it’s all. How many count? 0:39:02 – Jeff Pelizzarodoes he have? I don’t know idea, but he hit a great three wood, yeah, you know, in the dark, oh, so kind of. The last thing I want to talk about before we close up with our last questions is and I think this is one of the biggest things that I hear you discuss with your clients and is probably the most important You’ve kind of alluded to it already is the consistency factor, and I’ve heard you say over and over and over again to your clients the consistency comes before the motivation, right? So I want you to just kind of explain that a little bit and what that means to you and how it’s helped you, but how it’s also helping anybody out there. 0:39:36 – Eric SchaettyThe big thing that I had heard that quote somewhere recently, but it was for me. It happened before that. It was I was killing myself with cardio. I was rowing for an hour and a half. I was waking up at two o’clock in the morning, rowing for an hour and a half, then going to my job at five am, working all day, and then I would come home and like I guess I’ll do CrossFit, I guess I’ll live some way to take a nap. And I’m like I was a year we’re talking about the walking or something happened. And I was like you know what, let, maybe it worked. Yeah, might have been on the forge, yeah, I don’t know what it was. And I was like you know what? You always see these bodybuilders like walking. And then a friend of mine, jordan Fagan, mom barbell medicine guy, he had always talked about walking. How it’s like, yay, the key to fat loss is walking. I’m like this can’t be right. And I listened to this guy and I was like, all right, well, let’s give it a try. So I scrapped all that and I’m like, all right, I’m just gonna walk for 40 minutes every morning, wake up, no matter what rain or shine. I’m walking for 40 minutes. I walked for 40 minutes and like three months I had lost like 10 pounds and I was like, wait a minute, this is weird. Like I’m in better shape, I look better and feel better than I did when I was killing myself with this hour and a half of rowing three or four days a week. And it’s like wait a minute, like what am I? I’m walking every day, though Now I’m doing seven days of 40 minutes, plus, when I’m done working out or working, I’m like all right, I’m gonna be the kids, we’re gonna go play, we’re gonna go play golf, we’re gonna go do this. And all of a sudden it’s like wait a minute, like I’m more active, I feel better. Like walking is the secret because you can do it over a long period of time with no repercussions. I’ll be if you can. Like there might be some, well, some limitation, do the elliptical or whatever. But it’s all of a sudden, this consistency was like wait a minute, this is really working. And then you get motivated. Nobody walks into the gym. It’s like, yeah, I’m gonna do this for three months straight and it’s gonna be awesome. Like most people walk in like the second or third time, like I’m gonna be so sore, this is gonna hurt. Oh man, like I know it’s time for this. Yeah, like, what am I doing? And like it’s like just keep coming back, just keep doing it, just keep doing it and the consistency comes and then, before you know it, like you get your results and then you get motivated. Then the train’s on the tracks, it’s heading downhill and you’re like all right, what’s next? Like put a bar on my back right, Put a bar in my hand. Let’s do something crazy, like right. So I think the consistency people don’t understand it’s like you will get consistent, then you will get motivated. You know, just go to the gym to start going. Whether you want to or not, I promise you in a month you will change. 0:42:21 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd it works for everything too right. So it works for strengthening, it works for walking, it works for nutrition. Not trying to do it all at once, because you know that that’s just gonna fail in a week. Even if you’re the most you know motivated person initially, you go through a week of trying to do everything every single day. It just it fades, the life gets in the way. But that’s what we’ve noticed with the Forge is we don’t tell people what to do when they work out, we don’t tell people what diet they need to choose. But you have to do it for 40 days straight and it’s like just trust the process, pick these couple of simple things. Or, if you’re one of you, it’s stronger. Okay, I’m gonna go to the gym two times a week and I’m gonna lift something kind of heavy right and do that for two times a week for 52 weeks and you’re gonna see a totally different person. 0:43:09 – Eric SchaettyAnd there’s I mean there’s research and anecdotal evidence and personal experience Like that produces results two days a week or what you will see results from two. You don’t have to go to the gym every day. Just don’t do a full body workout twice a week. You will get results and there’s evidence to prove it. There’s anecdotal stuff, there’s clients that we’ve had or you don’t think the proof is in the pudding. You don’t need to go every day. It doesn’t need to be as hard as people kind of make it sound. 0:43:38 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd, as you said earlier, if you’re somebody that hasn’t done that a long time, you’re a little nervous about going or you’re just kind of dreading getting that ball rolling. The cool thing is like you’re the person that’s gonna get the most out of it initially. If you’re somebody that has been training for a while, it’s harder to dial those results in. But if you are kind of starting fresh, simple little things are gonna do a lot. 0:44:02 – Eric SchaettyYeah, I mean, even like a couple hours a week, you’re gonna transform your body, you’re gonna do things and feel things, and I think that’s the other big thing is, like, most of the people that come in and like I think, like our crew, it’s like, yeah, they wanna hit the ball further, but they don’t want their back to hurt, they don’t want their knees to hurt oh man, I’m sick of my shoulder hurt and my back hurt. It’s like just do these fundamental things. I mean your back will start to feel better, your knees will feel better, you’ll walk nine, 18 holes and be like I feel pretty good, yeah, do it again. Right, like so. I think that’s the other side of it with the strength training is that there’s other benefits to it besides just hitting ball farther or getting stronger. Like there’s lifelong things that you can acquire down the road. 0:44:47 – Jeff PelizzaroThe most of the people, I think, that are in our crew listening, that are in our local crew playing, playing men’s tour golf Friday, probably the 35, 40 plus, mostly male, right, like the guys that we play with and, to your point, like it, it’s not all about golf, and 18STRONG has really never been about just lowering handicaps, right, it’s about so much more, especially with my background in PT and injury and just moving better. But tell me if you see the same thing. I mean we’re now inner 40s, I’m 45, you’re 41. Good to be foreign too. So like we have a lot of friends now that are kind of getting to that point where they’re well-established in their careers. They have kids that maybe are, you know, in late grade school, high school, some college, but they’ve been maybe at a desk for a long period of time. They kind of I feel like we get into this place, especially as guys, where you get into your career, you’re focusing on your family, you’re focusing on doing all the other things and you kind of let your taking care of yourself go a little bit. Have you found that that’s a big part of the golf community that you’ve seen and talked to work with? 0:46:00 – Eric SchaettyYeah, a lot of the times, and I mean even like my brother I mean my brother’s a little bit younger than me, it’s the same thing Like he’s very busy with his work life and you know, it’s like it’s like he’s a graser, really good golfer, very good golfer, but it’s like he prioritizes family and everything else over other things like that right, taking care of himself, I mean in fine shape. But I just see like little examples of like, like you said, like people letting you know their other, you know the rest of their life kind of get pushed aside or family or for whatever reason, work or whatever it is. But I mean especially my advice to them just get up and walk every morning. Yeah, just start with 15. Starts walking. Just get up and be like I’m gonna go walk every morning 15 minutes, that’s all. Just start with that For you. I like, oh, I’m gonna do 20 minutes, I might do 30 minutes, because even walking is going to build the muscles in your legs. You’re gonna get muscle strength just from walking. So even like that, just starting with that, you know, when you get through a little, five pounds. 0:47:08 – Jeff PelizzaroTell me how to go back, right, Like, just start to get a little bit of resistance, Pretty much some resistance, Exactly. I have a quick story before we jump in this last question. All right, these last questions. I’ve got one of my clients, Greg, who you probably know, but I’ll never forget. Like we met and started working with each other I don’t know six, seven years ago or so, and he is now, I think, 75, but was just kind of retiring, play, wanted to start playing a lot of golf. He’s a pretty decent golfer, but he said to me at one point, after we’d been working together for like six months, like man, I would give you a million dollars if you could put me in a time machine and we could have met 20 years ago. You know, like because of he just let his body get to that point and now he’s 67 years old or 68 years old, and it’s like you can’t get it back. So I guess this is my PSA to all you guys and guys out there like it’s never too late to start, but start today, right, and that’s kind of our whole mantra of no mulligans is like hey, you don’t get a mulligan for life, right, Like you don’t get to do this over. Yeah, you’re gonna go up and down with your fitness, but like, start today and start to do something, because you don’t get today back, right. 0:48:20 – Eric SchaettyNo, and then that’s I mean. I like I would say the same thing, like I wish I could go back. But the other thing is, is that people like that? What I have done in my life has led me to this point in time. So just take it for what it is and then just move forward. Right, like you wouldn’t be staying, I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you if it wasn’t for all these little things that have happened in my life. So just take it for what it’s worth and then you just move forward from there. Like you can’t, why change it? Right, it’s happened. You can’t go back. We can’t have a time machine. Right, it’s like, let’s think about, like, moving forward, the next step. So what are we gonna do next? Right, you can’t go back in your time machine. We can do something. We can get up tomorrow, we can go for a walk, we can go put a barbell in our hands, we can go to the gym, we can go find a strength coach, we can go do Pilates or bar or whatever you wanna do. But let’s move forward and not backwards, right, right, awesome. 0:49:12 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, brother, let’s get into these last questions. Caddyshack Happy. 0:49:16 – Eric SchaettyGilmore Caddyshack 100%. It was Christmas. It was always on, always on my grandpa’s house. We watch Caddyshack every year, Love it. 0:49:27 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, the third. So walkup song that you can pick first to the T-Box at Waterloo Country Club. Well, what are you picking? I don’t know, not really Whatever you want, but walkup songs to the first T-Box, Getting Hectic by the Urge. All right, is there a different one than you would pick at Waterloo Country Club? Um yeah, Probably. 0:49:48 – Eric SchaettyI mean it depends. Do I want to intimidate people or probably be corn blind? 0:49:53 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, how about Bill? I love it, bill loves it too. Yeah, all right, let’s see what’s our next one here. Oh, is there a book that you love, that you’ve read and that you love to recommend to people, whether it be golf, fitness, life, well, it’s an actual and it’s not a. 0:50:10 – Eric SchaettyIt’s Bobby Plaguer’s biopic Tales from the Blues Bench. It is some of the funniest stories. You like things about the 60s and the 70s and hockey that you wouldn’t even like, you wouldn’t think they would do it today and you’d be like you’re gonna jail, like some of the stuff they did, and it’s just, it’s a fun read, like it’s a great story. So yeah, tales from the Blues Bench, bobby Plaguer. 0:50:32 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, who’s your celebrity forcing if you could pick a forcing to go play with, you get four and a half to five hours to walk and just kind of shoot the shit with these people. Who’s he gonna be John? 0:50:42 – Eric SchaettyDaley, michael Jordan and my grandfather so my grandfather’s the one who helped me, like learn how to play golf, but we never played like a full round together. Really, for as long as you never played a full round Cause, when I was like like drinking days and like I would love to have that back to like what I like how I am now. I would love to have that back. 0:51:07 – Jeff PelizzaroIs he still here? 0:51:08 – Eric SchaettyNo, he passed away three, four years ago, right around there. 0:51:13 – Jeff PelizzaroSo we’d love to have that. Would your grandpa get in on the games too? 0:51:15 – Eric SchaettyOh, absolutely. He was the one in the Country Club. 0:51:18 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s absolutely he’d be at other games. We forgot to mention that you are the assistant to the chief gambling officer of the 18STRONG crew yeah man Turgoff, right. So I know there’s gonna be some serious games with MJ John Daley. All the games, I love all the games. All right, if we’re, if we’re loading up the 18STRONG jet, we’re flying anywhere you want to go? What’s your bucket list? Course, and I’m gonna throw this out, like I did to Bobby too, I’m gonna take it. You can say it if you want, but you’re gonna give me another one. I’m gonna take Augusta and St Andrews off the table. Riviera, all right, riviera. 0:51:50 – Eric SchaettyAnd it’s super hard. It’s Northern California, like it’s beautiful Riviera for sure, all right. 0:51:57 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a social media account that you think that the 18STRONG crew should go follow, whether that be golf or whatever, but big Barbell Medicine. 0:52:06 – Eric SchaettyBarton Barlow Medicine, jordan Barbell Medicine or Austin Barrocky at Barbell Medicine. All right? 0:52:12 – Jeff PelizzaroThere we go, all right, and last one what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 0:52:21 – Eric SchaettyTake your medicine, take, take your medicine, take your medicine. My grandpa used to tell me all the time just take your medicine. To get in trouble, take your medicine. 0:52:31 – Jeff PelizzaroGood advice, good advice. All right, brother, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you being on. Where can people go and find you? 0:52:37 – Eric SchaettyE-Shat’s 82 on Instagram. Eric Schaetty on Facebook Schaetty Fitness Consulting. Or come see us here at Empire Fitness Academy 0:52:46 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I’m going to try to twist this guy’s arm to do a little content for 18STRONG with us here too. So we’ll be. You’ll be seeing a little bit more of him as well. So all right, brother, thank you very much. Thank you, yeah. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast and don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong. And if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the mission of 18STRONG, please share with a friend. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Dr. Zac Cutler (Sports Performance Chiropracter, FGLC Performance/Golf and Training Institute)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 357Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Imagine having the secret to improving your golf game right at your fingertips. The key could be as simple as understanding your body mechanics better. That’s right, we’ve got Dr Zach Cutler, the lead chiropractor at Golf and Training Institute (formerly FGL Performance), spilling the beans on how body mechanics can be a game-changer for your golfing skills. Dr Zach will talk about his thrilling experience at the 2016 US Amateur and how his golf background is instrumental in assisting his patients. Fancy knowing more? We’ll walk you through the world of sports chiropractic and its impact on a golfer’s performance with the experts from the Family Golf and Learning Center. They cater to different age groups, building strength for kids, considering past medical history for adults, and helping everyone step up their game. We’ll shine a light on common golf-related injuries, specifically low back and SI joint issues, the importance of core stabilization, and breathing techniques to prevent these problems. You’ll also get to hear about the role of T-spine and hips in back pain, and tips to improve swing speed and distance. If you think that’s all, well, we’ve got more. We’ll be sharing our personal experiences, discussing the mental aspect of golf and how it influences other life areas, not to mention, announcing our partnership with First Form, a nutritional company committed to helping customers achieve real results. Hear the stories of overspeed training, postural exercises, and the challenges of finding time to practice and train. Lastly, a professional golfer will share his best round on the course, his favorite golf movie, book, and his dream foursome. So, put your golf caps on and let’s head on to this enlightening journey. Tune in and get ready to swing your way to success! Main Topics (00:03) Improve Golf Game Through Body Mechanics Dr Zach Cutler shares his golf background and how he helps patients improve their game through body care. (10:01) Chiropractic for Golfers at Learning Center Sports chiropractic improves golf game by incorporating physical health and wellness for kids and adults at Family Golf and Learning Center. (23:45) Golf and Fitness Chiropractor and physical therapist discuss combining manual therapy and exercise for golfers, and addressing posture.. (31:28) SI Joint Dysfunction and Golf Core Strength Nature’s injuries in golfers’ low back and SI joint, core stabilization, breathing techniques, T-spine and hip involvement, and overspeed training for swing speed. (39:55) Golf Training and Personal Experiences Over speed training in golf can improve performance by understanding body movements, but finding time to practice can be challenging for busy professionals. (47:58) Memorable Rounds and Golf Dreams A professional golfer shares his best round, mental game, favorite movie and book, dream foursome, and advice. Follow Dr. Zach Cutler Instagram: @drzachcutler Instagram: @golfandtraininginstitute Website: GolfandTraininginstitute.com Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 357, with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance.What’s up, guys? 0:00:36 – Jeff PelizzaroThis week, we are in studio with Dr Zach Cutler from FGL Performance. Dr Zach is the lead chiropractor. He’s a sports performance chiropractor over at a really cool facility here in St Louis, missouri called Family Golf and Learning Center, or FGLC for short. He’s the head of FGL Performance. Dr Zach also played very high level golf playing Division 1 at Valparaiso. He made it into the 2016 US Amateur, and so he utilizes his background in golf to work with his patients, specifically golfers just like you, to help them move better, help them improve their game through their body. So in this episode, we talk exactly about that how you can improve your game by working on your body, because it’s the only thing that you use on every single shot. So today we talk with Dr Zach about building speed, gaining mobility and really ultimately swinging the club better for a longer period of time. You have to control your body for 18 holes, 36 holes or even longer, and he helps us figure out how we can do that better. So we’re going to do that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel, for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, dr Zach Cutler. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. 0:02:24 – Dr. Zach CutlerI appreciate it. Thanks for having me. 0:02:26 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, for sure. So this has been a little bit of a long time coming. We met a few weeks or months ago and you’re doing some really cool things over at Family Golf and Learning Center that we’ll get to talking about. But let’s talk a little bit about your background in just golf athletics. I know you grew up playing a lot of hockey. Did you play more hockey or more golf when you were growing up? 0:02:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerGrowing up it was more hockey. My dad, most of my family, is Canadian. Hockey growing up was a sport and same with my brother, so played hockey for the most part of the childhood and then gradually golf into it and over at Wing Haven Country Club, right over here. 0:03:03 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat level of hockey did you end up playing Like? How late did you play through high school? 0:03:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I played until sophomore year of high school and it was a central states team through St Louis Selects. They’re called a kind of transition into car show AAA now, and so it wasn’t quite at that AAA level but just in between that double AAA level. So I met a lot of good people through that program, but also a lot of those players were golfers as well so it was a good mesh. 0:03:33 – Jeff PelizzaroGotcha. So your golf career then started just playing with your brothers, your dad, and just kind of grew from there. 0:03:41 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so golf grew up. My grandparents lived in Branson and so they were members of the course down there. So my brother and I we would go out on their golf car playing holes after in the evening and learning golf that way and my grandpa was a huge part of giving me into golf and really just kind of grew from there. You know, every time we’re down there playing, and then gradually transition to junior golf programs and then to some local events. And you know, just led to one thing another. 0:04:14 – Jeff PelizzaroSo then played in high school and then ended up going to Valparaiso and playing Division 1? 0:04:18 – Dr. Zach CutlerYes, so with high school Timberland High School, over in Winsville, and from there in 2013 we won the state championship. So that was a great experience with the guys. And then from there I committed to Valpo, played four years of small D1 school in Northwest Indiana up there, and that was a great experience. You know, I had a small win my freshman year you know some good golfers Division 1 program up there. And then, yeah, 2016 was able to come back down here at Old Hickory golf course and qualified for the US Amateur that summer and kind of a crazy ride to get there through that qualifier, but it was fun. And then later, I think it was July or August, and it was the US Am and just a good experience for sure. 0:05:17 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that was Oakland Hills. 0:05:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerOakland Hills Country Club up in Michigan. So two courses and I think just outside of Detroit, maybe up there, and it was a great layout, great course. 0:05:33 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what was it like going into that setting? Obviously a very big deal to make it to that setting, that level. Were you nervous? Were you excited? All of the above then how did you end up playing that week? 0:05:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I’ll kind of start at the qualifier. So first round wasn’t too good. It was a 77 and the last round ended up shooting 666 and got into a playoff and three guys and that actually took eight holes. So it was a long second day and I got that second spot and from there I didn’t really know what I got myself into. In regards to the US Am like I always try to qualify for that. Everyone in the area try to qualify for that if you’re an Am and then you don’t really know until you’re there. When you’re there, it’s really neat how structured and how everything is set up at this US Am. It’s so professionally set up and I was nervous when we were there you had the head of the USGA that was there at the time and going through and seeing all these really well known amateurs playing in this event and a couple well known ones I mean Skychefler, colin Morkawa, were in that and some high end names right now in the PGA Tour, which is really cool and it shows that it made it to that level, made it to that tournament, and so the nerves on the first tee were high, for sure, but gradually sunk into it a little bit, didn’t play too well, but great experience and it just shows you where your golf game needs to be to play at that level. And that experience has really helped me where I’m at now with my profession and helping golfers now. 0:07:19 – Jeff PelizzaroSo metal play is how many days is it? Three days in the US Am, and then you make it to match play. 0:07:27 – Dr. Zach CutlerTwo short play days. And then top 64 and I think it was plus one or plus two for the 36 holes. There were two courses, north and south. One was the championship course, the other one was a shorter, tighter course. Out there and I think there was like 17 guys for maybe six spots to get the last few spots for the match play. So it was, I mean, a lot of players. I mean there’s 312 players or so that make it and then only 64 go to match play so you know. But you know, even though not making the match play, it was a great experience for the guys that I played with, but also, you know, guys that were on the putting green, the locker room, all that, so met a lot of people through it as well. 0:08:11 – Jeff PelizzaroWho ended up winning that year? 0:08:12 – Dr. Zach CutlerIt was Curtis Luck, so Brad Dahlke came and runner up and then I’m not really sure how Moira Kawa and some other guys did that year, but you know it was some good playing for sure. 0:08:27 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you mentioned that. You know that experience and just playing collegiate level golf has really kind of helped shape your career. What made you decide to go into the chiropractic school you went here at Logan. 0:08:39 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, right. 0:08:41 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd did you always know that you wanted to kind of get in the medical world, or is that something that just kind of gradually, you know you worked out through the years in college? 0:08:50 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo I’ll kind of start off. In high school I was definitely driven in regards to the golf aspect well, golf and hockey, but gradually just into golf and so I was very focused. I really wanted to take that as far as possible. As I was in college playing both golf and the academic side, I realized I really enjoyed the body biomechanics. I want to help people and I felt like and I wanted to work with athletes as well and I felt like, originally, physical therapy was the way to go. Nowadays we’re becoming very similar PTs and chiropractors and but the entry into schooling is a little different. So I was actually originally taking classes to go into PT school and try to get into those and transition where I met a few guys that actually were in here down in St Louis that then go into Logan and I’m like you know what, it’s close to home. I shadowed some physical therapists, some chiropractors. I love both professions and just thought you know this is the route you know to go, being close to home here at Logan, and I’m glad I went that route for sure. 0:10:00 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome. I was expecting you to kind of say that maybe you had an injury that you know like that’s a traditional physical therapist story. 0:10:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerI had an injury. 0:10:08 – Jeff PelizzaroI went to rehab. I saw what they did there. I thought it was kind of cool and I want to work with athletes. But you know, to have that athletic background and wanting to go into that, seems to make. 0:10:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerI mean perfect sense, yeah, really not a whole lot of injuries growing up. And that’s the thing where you know the patients golfers I help with right now and not just golfers, some other athletes as well the routes and my experience that I’ve been through to kind of get away from those injuries, and along with just nutrition as well, along with the training, along with the treatment and management, injury management and it’s been really helpful for myself and I’m trying to help people as well with that. 0:10:50 – Jeff PelizzaroSo you work at one of the coolest places here in St Louis Family Golf and Learning Center. So first, just for people that are listening, we had Adam Betts on the show a long time ago, really right when Family Golf and Learning Center was getting ready to be opened up. But tell us about you know what’s going on over there, what the place is, because I think that you know when you hear that name you don’t really know what it is, but it really is like a premier spot for golf in St Louis. 0:11:20 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo family golf and learning center. It’s a great spot. Like you said, it has a par three course, it has two hitting bays, grass hitting bays on the side. It has a double tier range, along with a massive putting and chipping area. Not only that, where I’m inside it has a couple track bands where you can really look at your numbers, look at in and out speed, spin all that and then upstairs you have the fitness center where my office is located, helping with the physical aspect of the golfers game. So at this facility for really the average golfer, trying to get the full spectrum of the teaching pros, the chiropractic, pt, rehab side and trying to engulf the amateur golfer with every aspect that these pro and tour players have, and it’s just a perfect facility for that. 0:12:13 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you ever go there before it was taken over and redone and everything? 0:12:18 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo I’ve seen pictures. I’ve never been there, so Adam’s done a great thing to this place, so it’s a good spot right now. 0:12:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, if you were to see it. I mean, think of kind of your traditional old school driving range two tiers but small little shack and basically just a flat surface driving range. It does have a nine hole par three course out there. But then Adam the new owner came in and has just done so much tore down the old building, built a new with 10,000 square foot facility. It’s just, it’s top notch. And every time I go there so my son goes there now my son’s 15 years old, him and his cousins and buddies hey, can we go out on a Friday night and go up to family golf? When it’s 45 degrees out you can go inside and to the hitting bays or the heated bays. But it’s cool like there’s so many kids out there practicing and I think that there’s so few places and I think this probably goes for the states in general there’s unless you belong to a club, it’s hard to like go get real practicing and then to have a facility where you can go practice your short game and then you can go inside to hitting bays and then to take it another level and have somebody like you there where you know you can come and get assessed, you can come and get a training program, you can have doctors at work on you. It’s just it’s pretty cool to see that. You know it’s like the pros have their team, their medical staff, their, and you guys are kind of doing that over there. 0:13:50 – Dr. Zach CutlerTrying to hit every angle for you know the average golfer that’s in the area for sure. So you know it’s really neat too with the PGA teaching instructors there and, like you said, the kids, and it’s every age and skill of a golfer that’s there practicing and they’re able to get the instruction side but also able to get their body, their movements assessed and you know, like I said, attack all angles. 0:14:16 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I’d like to maybe break out into kind of two different groups, because you know we’re talking about some of the kids and then I think that a big demographic of our audience is, you know, guys like me I won’t throw you in the old man bus, you know, 27 years old, but you know us guys that are in our 40, 35, 40, 45 and beyond. We have our own issues that I think we’ll probably talk even a little more extensively on. But curious, when you’re working with the kids, you know, because typically you think of chiropractors, you think you know a guy that has back pain goes to a chiropractor, right? Well, you’re a chiropractor sports chiropractor that works with golfers, works with a lot of kids. What does that look like when you bring a kid in and what are some of the reasons why? You know somebody that’s listening, maybe would want their you know, 14 year old to come see somebody like you, even if maybe they don’t have pain or discomfort or things like that. 0:15:10 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so you know well, 13, 14, 15 year olds just entering high school. A lot of the golfers I work with they want to. You know they want to hit the ball further nowadays. Definitely that’s part of the game now hitting the ball further as they’re entering high school. The big aspect is just getting stronger. They’re gonna naturally get a little stronger as they get older, but strength is key and for those golfers we work on basic body motions and movements and you know we’re not doing a whole lot of weight here but we’re gradually stepping it up, progressing forward with strength, and so those game plans are a little bit different than someone that’s 35, 40 years plus that has some other past medical history going on. So, like you said, these golfers that are younger usually don’t have a whole lot of past medical history there and there trying to hit the ball further, get a little stronger and improve speed, power, strength, time, speed. So working on strength, working on speed, you’re gonna improve power and that’s the primary focus for those golfers and we’re already seeing, you know, huge improvement for the golfers I work with right now. So kind of veering into the 35, 40 year old plus golfers that I work with all skill levels. That’s where past medical history takes a little bit of a bigger play into the picture. So with the start of every session we go through past medical history and figure out, you know, any limitations before we go through the assessment. And that’s huge for the treatment side but that’s also huge for developing the program and personalized program. And then I can lead into a little bit the assessment. So with the assessment I look at mobility, I look at stability, I look at power and then I also take a look at their swing as well. So those four components we combine with these golfers goals to create a personalized program. So most of the goals are hitting the ball further and pain-free golf. Those are the biggest ones. But some people want to improve this mobility and we kind of veer that program towards what they want. So in regards to golfers, with the assessment we figure out mobility limitations, where what is moving well with the body, what’s not moving well, and that will also be able to tell us what are the stable parts of the body as well. Power assessment we’ll do a warm-up, we’ll look at upper body power, core power and lower body power. A lot of times you can kind of with doing this with a lot of people. You can tell right off the bat in regards if we need to improve different areas of power. The last component is the swing aspect. So we’ll look at some swing speed, but we’ll also look at how the movement of their swing looks. So I can compare it to the assessment and like okay, so for instance, they don’t have external rotation of their right shoulder for right hand to golfer. If we look at their swing, they’re bringing the club back here. They have no external rotation. They’re gonna be very laid off low, maybe come from the inside out and little aspects like that really correlate and it all makes sense and describing this to the golfer afterwards and they understand where I’m coming from, what we’re seeing in the assessment and what the clear picture of the game plan is moving forward. 0:18:29 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s awesome when you bring them in and you’re looking at those things and, speaking from my own personal experience, it’s really cool when you can kind of show them like, hey, here’s what we see on your physical screen and maybe even before you do any kind of a swing assessment or anything like, here’s what we’re seeing Now, let’s just see how that plays out a little bit later, if it does at all, and then, like you just start to see like these light bulbs turn on in their head. Are there any kind of like low hanging fruit or low hanging fruit or like really common things that you tend to see in that demographic? Are there certain parts of the body that you kind of have seen Like, yeah, there’s a lot of patterns here. 0:19:08 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. If someone comes in, for instance, with SI joint dysfunction or SI joint pain, a lot of times, most of the time, early extension is a big aspect of the SI joints so they’re not able to fully turn their pelvis. A lot of times they try to stand up or really extend their golf swing. So early extension is huge. So pelvic rotation is part of the assessment that I see probably failed the most and I don’t like the word fail. It’s a limitation that we can improve. It’s not going to be a fail all the time. We’re there to improve it and have the body move the most efficient as possible for the golfer. So I would say hip mobility. I primarily look at internal rotation. Just with, for instance, a right hand golfer, the backswing right hip internal follow through, you’re posting up on that left side. So internal rotation is huge. I find limitation with a lot of people with internal rotation. That could be so with the assessment, two different types. So, for instance, if we’re looking at lower quarter rotation, which is internal rotation of the hips, if someone’s not able to perform that motion, I actually check passively as well to make sure if there’s a true limitation in that motion. 0:20:23 – Jeff PelizzaroSo for instance Can you explain that a little bit, what that means? Passively versus. 0:20:28 – Dr. Zach CutlerVersus active. So active is with the lower quarter rotation, the patient. I’m not doing anything. The patient will actively try to rotate their hip into internal rotation and there’s a specific movement for that with the assessment. So they’re actively moving their muscles, contracting their muscles to get in that motion. So I assess where they’re able to go with that degree wise and then on the table, my chiropractic table, I check passively so that the patient’s not moving their leg at all. I’m passively moving their leg into that internal rotation and I compare if it’s the same or if it’s different. So for instance, if the golfer actively say, goes you know 40 degrees of internal rotation and I’m able to passly go into 60 degrees, then we know they don’t necessarily have a limitation. They have a mind-body connection limitation where I love those, where you know, do specific movements, golfers really able to get into those motion right off the bat, great. And then, for instance, stops, a case where if it’s 40 degrees of internal rotation, passively only able to get to 40, they have a true limitation and most of the time it’s muscular related, but sometimes it could be osteology and the bone where you know it’s gonna be a little bit tougher to get that internal rotation. Just wanna go into that a little bit. 0:21:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, yeah, I think that’s really important to distinguish is the fact that you can actually have the range of motion in your body, but you’re not executing it in your activity that you’re doing right. So, in your golf swing. So like you physically can do it. So if Dr Zach has you laying on the table and he’s able to rotate your leg to 60 degrees, but in your swing you’re only rotating your pelvis or your hip to that short or 40 degrees you’re like hey you have it, we just don’t know how to turn it on yet. So then let’s distinguish between what you would do in a situation like that. So in one situation you’ve got somebody. They’re just stuck Like right. They don’t have that full range of motion, they’re at 40 degrees, they’re stuck, but we want to get them to 50, 60, whatever it might be. What does it look like for that patient or client versus somebody that you’re like? No, you got it. We just need to kind of figure out how to make you use it, definitely so, the two different avenues. 0:22:47 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo in regards to the treatment side for a golfer that is truly limited in that internal rotation, this can be any range of motion shoulder mobility, it could be other aspects or parts of the body as well, but just, for instance, with the hip, I would do more soft tissue therapy. I would really work on the muscles and the tissue in that region to help them improve and loosen up that region. And with that, though, I would add in specific movements to help engage and move into that internal rotation, to add into it For golfers that just have a mind-body connection limitation, where they can get in that motion but they’re not used to really getting in that full range of motion. That’s where really just specific exercises and movements can help them get there. So that’s where I say it’s a little bit better when people have that range of motion but aren’t fully utilizing it. We can get them in there pretty quickly. 0:23:44 – Jeff PelizzaroRight, and that’s where. So there’s always this talk about golf and fitness and where do the exercises come in and how much should be golf-ish and how much should not be. But I think this is the exact specific point where being able to identify, like, the reason we’re doing this exercise, the reason we’re going into this motion, is not just because we want to make it look like a golf swing, it’s because we’re trying to get your body to be able to feel this position or move in this position Exactly, but knowing that you have that motion like, okay, we can do this. It’s not just let’s grab a cable and let’s start rotating, because I’m a golf fitness guy and that’s what we do. We just rotate, right. 0:24:25 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. 0:24:27 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I would think that the other individual that has the limited hip or they have the actual physical limitation. This, to me, would be where, like your expertise, really makes such a big difference for some of these people. 0:24:43 – Dr. Zach CutlerYes, definitely so. Just knowing the anatomy in that region as well, and a few other soft tissue techniques play well in these cases for sure, and this is again, it’s in combination of the exercise portion as well. So that’s where I like to utilize both chiropractic care, soft tissue therapy past modality and these techniques. There’s a few techniques I can name, but all of them are trying to. They have the same goal in mind. So, yeah, so. 0:25:15 – Jeff PelizzaroHow do we so? First of all, you know when people think chiropractor or at least that’s changing now as far as, like they used to think chiropractor oh, crack your neck, snap your back and move on. Come back next week right. So do you do much of the how would you describe it to the layperson? Subluxation, or. 0:25:38 – Dr. Zach CutlerManual adjustment, manual therapy or manual manipulation, so adjustment would be easy term. So for instance, for a golfer, if we’re doing an assessment T-spine rotation so thoracic spine rotation we’re looking for at least past 45 degrees bilaterally. If someone’s coming in and they have no past medical history of the thoracic spine, everything’s green light, no red flags, and they’re limited in T-spine rotation. Well, that’s where I’ll combine my chiropractic care knowledge, chiropractic knowledge along with exercise to help improve that. So we would adjust T-spine, we would go in and do a short little assessment of chiropractic wise, but our goal is to help gain a little bit more motion in those joints. So the spines made up of many different joints that could connect bone to bone, basically with the disc in there, and if we can create more motion in those joints along with these exercises, it’s going to have the optimal outcome and benefit for the golfer. 0:26:36 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd that’s the key right. It is creating motion but then backing up, backing up and fortifying it with your ability to strengthen, and I think that that’s where you know there’s. It’s great we have a chiro and a PT in the same room together and we do get along right and people think that natural enemies. But I think that that’s kind of initially where some of the differences occurred, where, like, the PT’s were always kind of the exercise rehab. You guys were always a lot more of the manual therapy and the adjustments. And now what I’m seeing is there a lot more crossover, not so much as far as the adjustments from the physical therapy side and again, I’ve been out of the clinical world for a while but it’s cool to go to these continuing education courses and meet so many different chiro’s and PT’s that have such similar ways of thinking and going through the same you know, education to really learn how the body’s working and you know just seeing what you’re doing with the combination of the manual therapy and being able to first of all relieve ailments but then, you know, really kind of utilize those skills and then back it up and work on strengthening and training and doing those things. So I assume a lot of your clients patients will you know, go home with some sort of homework or exercises or posture drills, or you know what are some of the biggest things that you’re constantly working on, and maybe for the kids and for the adults. 0:28:02 – Dr. Zach CutlerWell, number one for sure. Nowadays, everyone looking down at their phone anterior head carriage, rolled shoulders forward or anterior, and so a lot of postural exercises. So it’ll be chin retractions, it’ll be working on the rhomboids or the posterior muscles to help with those with the posture. So and I see that across the board for sure, and a lot of kids in school now too, sitting down hunched over I need to do a better job, I think everyone everyone does. And that’s where simple movements like this that I give golfers, patients and just getting on them daily will really help in the long run. 0:28:43 – Jeff PelizzaroSo the consistency is so important. Definitely. I want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually living them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partnered with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets All of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. You can go to FirstFormcom that’s P-H-O-R-M dot com. Forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. Let’s talk a little back pain, because obviously chiropractic and back pain kind of go hand in hand. What do you see, especially with the golfers, as some of the biggest reasons why golfers tend to have back pain? 0:31:01 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so two components. So in regards to putting the T in the ground, in regards to looking at putts, the lumbar spines and the flexion are, I guess, tucked underneath where you’re putting a little bit more pressure on the disc. That’s where you know you could have some disc bowls, potentially disherniation later on, and I see that with a good amount of golfers. Also, though, the second aspect would be the rotational aspect. So usually the trail SI in the low back, that bone back there for right hand to golfer, where you’re pinching it off through your swing, we see a lot of SI joint dysfunction. So there’s different parts though. So especially for SI joint, there’s hypo mobile and hyper mobile. So you got to kind of figure out which one’s what and then it would lead down different path for treatment. So you see, you know, looking at different parts of the spine, I would say a lot of times it’s more low back as opposed to just mid back and cervical spine discomfort with golfers. A lot of times it has to do with core. Stabilization is huge. I know a lot of people think when I say that they’re like, oh, the core is up here, not back there. If you’re able to really strengthen this region and I’m not talking about crunches all the time, isometric work where you’re in the neutral position, but still strengthening that core. That’s really going to help the whole torso and help that low back. So isometric dead bugs, bird, dogs and people ask as well. They’re very simple at first, but there’s many ways to improve and make it a lot tougher. And then breathing is a big aspect of it as well. So you want to breathe through the stomach as opposed to just breathing right through the chest. You want to make sure you’re expanding throughout the whole region here, not sucking in like a six pack. You want to actually expand out and really brace that region. So just veering off that, I would say isometric core exercises are huge for golfers with low back pain. 0:33:04 – Jeff PelizzaroGoing to the breathing a little bit, because that’s become something that I’ve really gotten fascinated with as far as how that can impact your bracing. It can actually impact almost like decompressing the spine a little bit, if done right. What are ways that you have people incorporate the breathing into maybe your training programs and what are some of the other benefits? Or how does it actually work to help brace the back as well as kind of decompress? 0:33:32 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so it’s called intraabdominal pressure. And when, for instance, someone’s in a dead bug position where they’re on their back legs up and they’re just bringing one leg out, one arm out, we really want to focus on the belly, breathing outward, so almost pretend this is a cylinder instead of trying to suck in like a six pack. You actually want to feel like you’re expanding out and bracing the whole region. So a lot of times when you’re during impact of the golf swing, the pelvis slowly tilts underneath itself and the posterior tilt. Having that brace in there is super important to help support that spine during impact and throughout the golf swing. 0:34:10 – Jeff PelizzaroSo are you trying to hold that pressure in there as you’re swinging through? 0:34:16 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so usually the motions in regards to we do some kettlebell work, we do some med ball work, obviously the dead bugs and the isometric core incorporating that intraabdominal pressure is huge and we see huge relief and really not just from low back, si joint dysfunction, you know, and overall this could be for the golfer but this is for really any athlete in any sport. Rotational sports huge. 0:34:48 – Jeff PelizzaroSo what about? Something that I found is the fact that you know we a lot of people will present with back pain and maybe they even have something on an MRI where you know you see some sort of disc herniation or something. But when you really dig a little deeper, it’s not necessarily the, it’s the result but, it’s maybe not the root cause and it might be coming from other parts of the body that, for one reason or another, where are some of the bigger pieces that you found? Like Greg Rose from TPI always says, like your low back is like the big brother, like other things are working, so the big brother takes on the load, and so you’re ending up loading your back in funky ways in your golf swing and your workouts because you know other things aren’t doing their job. 0:35:33 – Dr. Zach CutlerExactly so. The low back definitely takes the brunt of the force in regards to so if someone, a golfer, is not able to fully rotate in their T-spine, if someone has limited hip mobility, a lot of times the area it’s that low back that’s trying to take that and counteract that force and take the brunt of that force. If we improve areas above and below, that usually helps improve that motion and improve that discomfort in that low back. And that’s not only just low back, that’s lower extremity as well, upper extremity, so, for instance, the legs. If you have some knee pain, okay, let’s take a look at the foot, let’s take a look at the hip, not just that source. 0:36:09 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, yeah, kind of looking at the whole picture not just one or the other. 0:36:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerAnd that kind of leads into why I look at the swing as well. After the assessment. I want to get a picture of how they’re actively swinging the golf club, as opposed to just doing a simple move. 0:36:28 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I think you mentioned earlier like one of the biggest things that most of us want is more distance right, and distance comes from some more speed. What are ways that you are helping some of the golfers get more speed in their golf swing? Obviously there’s tools like the Super Speed Club, the stack system and just the overspeed training devices, which can be very, very beneficial. But from more the body perspective, your expertise perspective, what are some of the things that people can do and again that population of guys like me 45, 50, where you kind of expect like, hey, my swing speed is going to go down, but you need to get off the tee box. You’re like man. 0:37:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerI used to be able to swing faster. Hit it further. So exactly so when you’re getting a 50-year-old, 50-years-old and plus more past medical history tends to come about. So when we’re trying to improve different areas, you have to take in consideration Instead of you might not be able to do the standard motion that will help improve this aspect, you might have to compensate and veer around it to help and not lead towards that past medical history. So, for instance, with speed, a lot of band work and, like I said, I focus on the upper body, core and lower body for speed. So a lot of band work for upper body, if you want to do pushes and pulls or presses and pulls work in both sides. And then with core, I like to do a lot of banded isolation or oscillation movements where you’re really engaging that core and trying to keep the body stable while moving as fast as possible. It’s a very minimal motion that is actually well done by a lot of golfers I work with, even with past medical history, since we’re not really working the joint, it’s more of just strictly core speed. There’s many others you incorporate into your program, but I would say the biggest thing for myself and working with a lot of members that are 50-years-old and plus, it’s that past medical history aspect. So it’s very easy coming someone in where they don’t have any hit history with shoulder injury, hip injury, back and we can go right into the motions. I want, as opposed to if we have knee replacements, hip replacements, maybe some back, maybe there’s hardware in the spine fusion, so you’re going to have to veer around that to still try to accomplish that same goal. 0:38:55 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you can sway any of those people from any of the overspeed training devices or just kind of teach them how to maybe minimize what their issue or injury might impact? 0:39:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah. So in regards to, for instance, a gentleman with some hardware, lower lumbar spine, where we want to have a little bit more rotation in the spine, the hardware leads into more of the T-spine where rotation is going to be a factor. So we’re trying to improve we’re not going to improve T-spine rotation because there’s hardware right in there and we’re not trying to affect anything with that. So we’re going to look at different areas where we’ll work out maybe a little bit more shoulder mobility, a little bit more lat flexibility to get more depth in the backswing, maybe a little bit more internal rotation to that right hip for the right hand golfer. So we’re looking at we can actually compensate a little bit on different areas to improve the same motion or the same goal. And what was the question again? 0:39:58 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, just regarding like over speed training and helping people kind of figure out whether that it’s right for them. It’s not right for them. I don’t know how you feel about it. We approach it. Everybody approaches it a little differently. 0:40:10 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I think it depends on the type of golfer as well and their goals as well. I mean there’s some people that going through the assessment, everyone moves just a little different length than everyone else and so and it depends on two like past sports they play as well. It might be easier route to get into more of the speed training as opposed to someone that hasn’t really been involved with any sort of power or speed work before. So it might be an easier transition for some people. It might be a little slower from other people and we kind of see how the body really incorporates around that. 0:40:46 – Jeff PelizzaroSo that’s a good point. I mean, we’ve I’m sure you’ve had different people that you know. Some are like super coordinated athletic, some or not, and you can’t do the same things with those people you also made the note about. You know, like, if something is, we know that something stuck, like the T-spine that has hardware and sometimes compensation can be a good thing, right, yes, but knowing where that should come from? 0:41:11 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely exactly. So, of course, if we’re limited in T-spine, we want to work on movements for that T-spine because predominantly that motion is rotation in the thoracic spine and, like you said, if there’s any hardware in there that leads into these regions and we can’t improve that range of motion, there can be good compensation on. Okay, let’s, let’s take a look at the shoulder, let’s take a look at the, the lat, and see if we can get a little more depth in that backswing, not just from the T-spine, let’s try to get it up with the shoulders. And that’s where it depends on the person. If they had past shoulder history, medical history, then we’ll have to take it step by step and see what we can do. So, yeah, All right. 0:41:51 – Jeff PelizzaroSo how’s your game these days? And you’ve been playing a little more competitive stuff and kind of getting back in the in the game. 0:41:58 – Dr. Zach CutlerAnd so you know I’m playing college and then went to Logan University for almost four years, three and a half years, and so played here and there a little bit more not as hectic, you know, not not qualifying all this stuff. So more for fun golf and getting back into it now. Currently, metropolitan Golf Association and Missouri Golf Association hold a lot of great events in the area, in the metro area, along with the whole state of Missouri. Thank you, yeah, getting back into it, sitting at a 0.3 right now. So, you know, trying to get back a little bit better. But you know I’m pleased, you know, and that’s for two the golf side of it as well, then the golf experience and incorporating that with my chiropractic knowledge, working with these golfers has been huge and people really, really enjoy that. 0:42:52 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, I mean just being able to. Well, first of all, I’m sure that your clients are excited to kind of watch what you’re doing. You know when you go out and play like they’re excited to see how you did, but you know being able to talk the language, being able to understand what they’re talking about. When they go out and they come back and tell you how great they shot or how terrible they shot, what would you say are some of the biggest things that have impacted your golf game from your personal career, knowing what you do. Now you know maybe what would you have liked to instilled in younger Zach that you now know and you’re like, hey, this is a big deal and this is either helping or that was hurting. 0:43:29 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so. When I was in high school, leading into college, I definitely wish I went through this TPI process and really got to know how my body moves and what exactly you know what a personalized program for myself would look like. I wasn’t as knowledgeable back then, with that Understandable high school going into college not really sure what I’m doing. But now, knowing all this and continuing to learn, I’m incorporating into my workout programs and I’m incorporating into my golf game and you know I see results. So the biggest thing right now in college, my driving wasn’t the most, it wasn’t the best aspect of my game, it was more a short game. Now I’m actually incorporating a little bit more power moves into my workouts and hitting the ball actually further now than I did ever I did in college so, and it just makes it more exciting and more fun as well. 0:44:28 – Jeff Pelizzaroso what did your training program in college look like? Did you guys have a dedicated coach for the team? 0:44:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerWe had a strength and conditioning coach, not specifically for golf, it was a combination of a few other teams in college, so we did a lot of core work, we did a lot of legs, but it wasn’t totally designed for golf and that’s where I wish, you know, the knowledge I know now I could really help out. Thankfully, since then they’ve kind of re-amped the system in their strength and conditioning program that it’s veered more around TPI and exactly on what each golfer needs, and the team has really improved even since I’ve been there. So it’s really cool to see this stuff works. I incorporated my workouts and my routine and it shows results for sure. 0:45:21 – Jeff PelizzaroPractice wise. Since you have this facility at your disposal pretty much, you know what does it look like. Are you able to get out and actually put some practice and time then out there. Or I mean, I know you’re running crazy with sessions and clients and stuff like that too. 0:45:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo a lot of people think I have all the time to practice and this and that which. It’s a great facility, but definitely busy up in the office. And during lunch I try to go down the track man’s hit some golf balls and get some numbers that way. But most of the practicing is usually done on, usually in the evenings after I’m done with work and on the weekends. But I’ll try to get out when I can, so that’s for sure. 0:46:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s funny. We were talking about this big Nashville trip that we have coming up and I’ve got a buddy that’s coming in from LA to go on the trip and we haven’t seen each other in a long time. I think we’ve only played golf with each other maybe once a decade ago and we’re trying to figure out. I’m like what’s your handicap? And he doesn’t have one. And I’m like all right, we gotta get you sorted out. And he’s like what’s yours? And I’m like I’m a 12. He’s like, really. I’m like I’m perfect proof that working in the world of golf doesn’t mean that you play a lot of golf. And I think that probably pull any of the instructors over at FGLC and they’ll probably all say the same thing Like we’re working here all day, the last thing we’re doing is spending a ton of time. So for all of you out there that have friends that are golf instructors or golf fitness pros like realize that many times it’s working with the golfers most of the time and rarely is it us getting out, and so hopefully we’re trying to practice what we preach, but it doesn’t always happen that way 100%, 100%. 0:46:59 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo and I wanna go back to like in regards to thankful with my golf game and getting into that where it’s been now and along the help with my family, my friends, but also Nathan Carnes, pga secretary now. He’s been a huge help with junior golf and my tournaments growing up. So he’s over here at Wing Haven Country Club and a great person and a good golfer himself, so he’s been a huge influence growing up for sure. 0:47:30 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat do you have on your golf radar? Any trips, anything like that coming up soon? 0:47:34 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I have a trip with a couple golfers I work with, along with some family friends, and we’re gonna go to TPCD Run in two weekends and play there for a couple rounds and love that course, for the John Deere Classic is at not only a few hours away from here. So that’s the last really trip for this year and hopefully we can get out a little bit more next year. 0:47:59 – Jeff PelizzaroCool. Do you have an epic round that you remember as like your best day on the course? You’re kind of like blackout mode and went crazy. 0:48:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely so, actually that second round of the USAM qualifier. 0:48:11 – Jeff Pelizzaroso Good place to have it. 0:48:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, and I’ve shot 66 a couple times, but this one was definitely the best. So nine birdies, six under 66, but it kind of hurts me a little bit. Remember I double bogeyed that last hole so it was close. But you know, and that’s where the experience of that eight hole playoff I you know, looking back at it now I mean that was huge. So just the mental aspect of it and just keeping in that grind so helps me not only for golf but also for, you know, my job and work and life and everything. 0:48:47 – Jeff PelizzaroSo mm-hmm Cool. All right, brother, we’re gonna finish up with our traditional questions here at 18STRONG. So first one Caddy Shaker, happy Gilmore. 0:48:55 – Dr. Zach CutlerHappy Gilmore. Yes. 0:48:57 – Jeff PelizzaroHockey background young guy, that’s kind of the 100% the pattern that I typically see One of the movies you grew up watching, or A little bit, you know, not too often I actually. 0:49:09 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo yes, golf, but I’m a big miracle fan. So the hockey team there, usa, so that’s definitely a big part of it. But happy Gilmore, definitely the hockey side of it I enjoy. 0:49:22 – Jeff PelizzaroSo All right, so you can pick your walkup song. What’s your walkup song to the first tee box? 0:49:28 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo growing up it was hockey locker room kind of pump up music and some rap, some EDM. So now it’s actually by, I think, drake, and a little baby wants and needs it’s called, so you should play it sometime. It’s a good one so. 0:49:45 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ll have to ask my 15 year old son, yep yep, to play that with him. Side question I didn’t prep you with this one Hockey. Being a hockey player, what’s your favorite hockey movie of all time? 0:49:54 – Dr. Zach CutlerHockey movie. Oh a miracle. Yeah, that’s for sure. Sorry, you said that, Yep. 0:49:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAny, have you ever seen the movie Youngblood? 0:50:02 – Dr. Zach CutlerI haven’t. I’ve heard of it. Okay, all right, I have homework for you, okay, okay. 0:50:06 – Jeff PelizzaroSounds good. Sorry, I had. Youngblood on the mind and I knew you just said miracle, but I basically wanted to get to Youngblood. 0:50:13 – Dr. Zach CutlerYep, yep. 0:50:14 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. Is there a book that has meant a lot to you, something that you’ve read and that you’ve learned a lot of lessons from, or that you tend to really recommend to people? Golf wise, life wise. 0:50:25 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so this would definitely be more life wise, not just golf wise, and I think you can take different aspects of it of how you want, but a pretty well-known book Rich Dad, poor Dad and there’s so many different aspects of that book that you can take away into your own life and anyone’s life and it really opens up your eyes and your mind about things and I think that can really help you move forward and keep progressing onward. 0:50:53 – Jeff PelizzaroCool, still trying to get my son to read that one. 0:50:57 – Dr. Zach CutlerSo it’s huge now, audiobooks I read the book, the hard cover of it, but audiobooks now driving around pop it on in the car and that’s been huge for me as well. 0:51:09 – Jeff Pelizzaroso road trips huge Ride along university all right. All right. If you could pick a dream for some anybody in the world past present, who would that be? 0:51:19 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, I would probably do. I would probably have Rory Macaroy, tiger and my dad. 0:51:28 – Jeff Pelizzaroprobably would be the four of us, yeah, so All right, so say, we have the 18STRONG Jet, we’ve got it fueled up, ready to go. Your bucket list course that you’re like, I’m going there today. 0:51:41 – Dr. Zach CutlerMm-hmm. So it’s actually believe it or not like a tough one between, and pretty common, st Andrews or Augusta, so that’s probably pretty common. 0:51:52 – Jeff PelizzaroI mean, there’s many courses that I would like to play, but those are the two main ones for sure I’m giggling, because we recently had a guest in here and I said all right, you can pick your bucket list, but it can’t be St Andrews, can’t be Augusta. 0:52:07 – Dr. Zach CutlerBecause I know everybody wants that one. 0:52:08 – Jeff PelizzaroSo if you, had to pick a third one. What’d you think? 0:52:11 – Dr. Zach CutlerOh, let’s probably. It would be neat to play, probably Pebble Beach. Yeah yeah, pebble Beach yeah, I would say that so. Or maybe Shadow Creek. So Most expensive golf course on the planet, I would say so. 0:52:33 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, is there a social media account that you’ve really been digging lately? Doesn’t have to be golf, can be anything but that. You would say like hey, you guys should go follow this account for whatever reason. Funny, you get good info whatever you like for. 0:52:46 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so I’m kind of getting more into the social media side in regards to following accounts, and I like to follow a lot more of business and finance accounts, not only just golf, fitness and golf accounts, but there are a few out there that I enjoy looking at and it’s more of just like personal finance. It’s a podcast as well. It has its own Instagram account. I believe personal finance podcast would be it so, and that’s more just life and learning about finance, about business, any business, and I think that’s huge. 0:53:20 – Jeff PelizzaroSo yeah, as a entrepreneur, business owner, it makes a ton of sense. All right, last one what’s the best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given? 0:53:30 – Dr. Zach CutlerDefinitely. So all of it have fun, definitely. And I got into a point where I feel like a lot of golfers do, where you’re working hard, trying hard, you get on the course and it’s not really going how you want and you’re getting frustrated and you’re out here playing golf and you have fun. You’re out here, you’re supposed to enjoy this and I think once people realize you’re on the course, you have fun, you loosen up, you’re actually gonna play your best golf as opposed to being in your head. 0:54:04 – Jeff PelizzaroSo I would say have fun. Great advice, all right. Where’s the best place for people to go find you? Follow what you’re doing. I know you’re putting a lot of stuff on social media. Now these guys are getting it rolling. 0:54:14 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, so at FGLC Performance it’s on Instagram and then Facebook. Dr Zach Cutler on Facebook, so it kind of goes hand in hand. Put a lot of movement videos on there as well, a lot of videos in regards to what we’re doing in the office and treatment-wise, how we correlate things, and that’s probably the biggest platform I would say. I would say Instagram. So, yeah, awesome. 0:54:43 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, dr Zach, thank you for coming on, really appreciate your time and I loved it. Your servicing the people of St Louis in the golf world. It’s cool to have somebody here that to be able to collaborate with and work with, and I’ve heard such great things about the work that you’re doing and just the mission of helping golfers get stronger, play better and just be the best Tain free golf. 0:55:05 – Dr. Zach CutlerYeah, 100%, all right. Thanks brother, awesome appreciate it. 0:55:11 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18strong, and if you found this episode helpful and wanna help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Play355. GFY Ft. Bobby Drummond: The Road to Sobriety, Fitness, and STRONGER Golf Guest: Bobby Drummond (18STRONG Crew, 40-Day FORGER)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 355Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Get ready to be inspired by the story of Bobby Drummond, a golfer who made a remarkable transformation. His journey from struggling with addiction and weight gain to achieving physical and mental health will captivate you. Bobby’s conversion, which led him from an 8 handicap to a 1.2, is a testament to the significant role of a small swing path change, thanks to Ray Farnell, a teaching pro at Whitmore Country Club. Bobby’s triumphs, however, go beyond the golf course. Prepare to embark on a walk with Bobby as he shares how the tragic loss of a friend and a broken relationship sparked a profound change in him, leading him down a path of sobriety. His transformative journey through the 40-Day FORGE and 75 Hard Program, shedding a whopping 70 pounds in 99 days, has redefined his life both on and off the green. Hear how he discovered the power of a good routine, laser focus, visualization, and a supportive community to succeed in golf and life. And guess what? Bobby’s transformation isn’t just a physical one. He opens up about how sobriety and a fresh mental approach have turned his golf game around. His favorite golf topics and his dream foursome are bound to pique your interest. So join us, as we journey alongside Bobby through his highs and lows, demonstrating that change is indeed possible when determination meets a supportive community. You don’t want to miss out on Bobby’s story, a testament to the power of personal growth and the impact of a healthy lifestyle on golf performance. Main Topics (00:03) Bobby Drummond’s 40-Day Transformation Bobby Drummond shares his experiences with the 40 Day Forge and 75 Hard Program, discussing similarities and differences, and how it improved his golf and life. (03:33) Golf Game and Personal Transformation Bobby’s golf game has improved from 8 to 1.2, aided by Ray Farnell and sobriety, plus childhood experiences and competitive high school play. (09:42) From Partying to Sobriety Bobby Drummond’s journey of sobriety, spurred by his ex-girlfriend and a friend’s death, includes walking, sobriety podcasts, and a wellness coach. (15:38) Journey to Self-Improvement and Lifestyle Changes Bobby shares his experience of walking miles, changing his diet, and taking on the 75 Hard Challenge, aided by an 80-90% clean diet. (19:44) Weight Loss Journey and Lifestyle Changes Bobby overcame drinking habits, lost 70 pounds in 99 days, and found comfort in not drinking with help from an accountability partner. (29:39) Discussion on Fitness and Partnerships Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard to Forge 2, focusing on impactful 40 minutes, Sunday smash sessions, commitment to a healthy lifestyle, and joining EFA Empire. (36:06) Improving Golf Performance and Personal Growth Bobby shares his transformation journey, discussing physical exercise, recovery, resistance training, weight training, cold showers, and healthier eating. (48:20) Impact of Mentality on Golf Game Bobby shares his experience of mental breakdowns, the importance of routine, laser focus, visualization, 80-second moments, and recognizing the next shot. (56:50) Favorite Golf Memories and Recommendations Bobby shares his transition from 75 Hard Challenge to Forge 2, his appreciation for Dave Matthews, his favorite book, his bucket list course, and how physical exercise and recovery have impacted his golf game. (01:07:19) Finding Community and Belonging Bobby Drummond shares his journey of finding belonging through community, Forge 2 program, and golf topics such as his walk-up song and dream foursome. Follow Bobby Drummond Instagram: @bobby_drummond Links Mentioned: 40-Day FORGE 75HARD Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com (By using this link, you will be entered into our Monthly 1st Phorm Giveaway!) More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 355 GFY with Bobby Drummond. Hey guys, welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build a stronger game, because we believe everyone deserves to play better, longer. This episode is a groundbreaking one. This is our first ever GFY Go Forge Yourself episode with my good friend, bobby Drummond. The Go Forge Yourself episodes are basically going to be us talking to people in the 18STRONG community that have been through the 40-Day forge, our plan and program that is geared towards helping you improve and get stronger physically, mentally, both on the golf course and off the golf course, and so in this episode, we’re sitting down with Bobby, who has an amazing story that started several years ago His transformation from weight loss to stopping drinking to playing better golf. Everything that he’s done over the last several years has been incredible, and you’re going to hear more about that in this episode. Bobby’s one of my good friends, but he’s also one of the better golfers that I play with on a regular basis, and so you’re going to get an insight into what the experience was like, not just of the 40-Day forge, but Bobby also did the 75 hard program the similarities and the differences in mindset that occurred throughout both of those challenges and through both of those programs, and hopefully you’re going to get a glimpse into what the 40-Day forge has done, not just to for Bobby, but for other individuals in the 18STRONG community. So we’re going to be doing a lot more of these episodes over the course of the next year and hopefully we’re going to continue to build out how many people are going through the forge and making huge differences and changes in their lives, not just on the golf course, but really in every aspect of their life. I think it’s really easy to have the experts and the professional golfers on our podcast and listen to their stories, but feel like that’s a little out of touch for all of us normal people living regular lives, raising families, going to work every single day. So I think that these episodes are really going to be very cool to see that transformation and hopefully help you realize that you’re strong enough to do whatever it is you’re looking to do, whatever goal you are choosing to set. That this is hopefully just some sort of inspiration to help you make that decision and make that commitment, and we’ll get into that right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach, there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG.com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG.com, slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview, bobby Drummond. Hello, what’s? 0:03:20 – Bobby Drummondup man. Welcome to the 18strong podcast. Thanks, man. 0:03:23 – Jeff PelizzaroSo this is cool. This is going to be our very first ever GFY episode Go forward yourself episode talking about the 40-Day forge. So we’ll get into all of that. But first of all we’re just kind of bantering about your golf game. Sound like you had a pretty good round. How’s the game right? 0:03:38 – Bobby Drummondnow. So it’s funny it went. It’s gone in waves this entire season, from like a winter of simulator golf, which was just hammering as hard as you could into the screen and see how far you could hit us, to getting out on the course Remembering what it was like to hit off the grass, shooting like two rounds in the 90s, to getting the game better, mental game better. Shot two rounds under par this year, couple even round, even rounds out there as well and, yeah, it’s good. Right now it goes in waves, as the golf game does. 0:04:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAbsolutely so. For those of you listening watching Bobby and I, we get a chance to play some golf together. Bobby was part of our mandatory golf Friday and is definitely one of the higher caliber golfers in that crew, I’d say. So, over the last couple of years. What’s the what’s kind of the handicap been like? I mean, have you? So? What is your handicap? These, days. 0:04:32 – Bobby DrummondSo I know exactly. It’s a 1.2 right now. All right, 1.2. 0:04:37 – Jeff PelizzaroSo over the last few years have you been like, steadily declining. What’s the game in? 0:04:41 – Bobby Drummondlike a last couple of years. Yeah, so I. I was about in 2020 and this may be something else you want to talk about but whenever I stopped drinking back in 2020. 0:04:49 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, we’re talking about that for sure. 0:04:51 – Bobby DrummondI figured we might. But in 2020 is when I really thought, okay, now that I have a clear mind, I can probably start focusing on some other stuff that I really do love like, like golf, and I was probably about an eight handicap or so, okay, and it got it down joined Whitmore country club whenever the Piedadema kick because there was nothing else to do. So I decided to spend my money on that new clubs, I got fitted for clubs and stuff like that and I just started working on my game. I got one lesson with one of the teaching pros at Whitmore Shout out to Ray Farnell, who’s awesome and changed like one tiny thing and that changed my game, like at that point. But then over the last couple of years it’s really been my swing probably hasn’t changed at all, but I focused on getting stronger in the mental games. It’s been the biggest thing and honestly, this year, nothing except for the mental game, really kind of a couple of tiny, tiny things here and there, like, honestly, the tiniest little change in grip, like where’s my, where’s my left thumb at, how strong is my grip, how weak is my grip, and that’s been the biggest, biggest change. And then just my attitude on the course. 0:06:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat did so? I’m sure people want to know what. What did you and Ray? What was the one little thing that you and Ray worked on? 0:06:06 – Bobby DrummondSure, so, as Ray would say, it was my swing path, cause he’s got, I can’t do a good accent for for Ray and his Australian ways. But that was it. I was taking the club a little bit too far inside in what felt like me taking the club straight back, felt like I was taking it super far out. That was the main change that we made and other than that, just feeling like athletic over the ball. I played all sorts of sports growing up big ones, theme, basketball, baseball, and then most I still play a lot of volleyball. So just want to feel athletic whenever I’m doing anything, not feeling robotic or mechanical and outside of the swing path and just a couple like little cues here and there. Those have been my the biggest things that I’ve changed. 0:06:54 – Jeff PelizzaroDid you? Did you grow up playing golf? What was your like? 0:06:58 – Bobby Drummondchildhood golf experience like Sure. I was playing golf at like 10 years old and my grandma actually was the one who I played a lot of golf with. And not to discredit my dad, cause I played a ton of golf with my dad too. I was actually a member at hidden valley, whenever hidden valley. 0:07:13 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you ever also ski slopes here Also? 0:07:16 – Bobby Drummondnow only ski slopes, no more golf there, but that was the helliest course ever. I did a lot of my playing out there. Ian didn’t Florida Whenever I say that like I live there, but every time we went on vacation there I would play with my grandma and grow up watching Tiger Woods. So I think everyone who’s around my age I got into golf probably because of Tiger. They weren’t getting into it because of Phil, let’s be honest, right, even though Phil was great there for a while. But that’s how I got into it, started playing a bunch and grandma always said like she wouldn’t play with me if I threw my clubs, cause I’ve always ran a little bit on the higher side, which a lot of people have seen, just cause I’m competitive and I protect my own. But yeah, so that’s kind of how I got my start into. It was playing golf in early age with my grandma. I just trying to. I mean, I played so much out of hidden valley I almost never practiced. I feel like playing is my practice. 0:08:15 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, did you play competitively or just for fun? 0:08:19 – Bobby Drummondwhen you’re a kid. Two, so two years in high school freshman year, sophomore year, at CBC I played golf on those teams. Junior year I literally had the shanks and I could not hit a ball to save my life. You still didn’t try out. So I decided not to try out that year and that’s actually when I found volleyball Okay, and that’s the only reason why I got into volleyball, cause I had the shanks. And I still played a junior and senior year, but just for more for sport than anything else. And into college I played with my buddies, but it was more drinking and party and then, yeah, so it was cool, but for the most part it was just for the, for the fun, right. 0:08:59 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, so speaking of the drinking, the partying, so one of the reasons I wanted to have you on and really excited for you to be the first episode here is because I know I know a lot of your backstory. I don’t know all of it, so he will dig into as much as you want to share it, sure, and you know the forge and just your whole transformation, so give me a little glimpse into. Obviously this can be an episode kind of about your transformation, so kind of tell as much of the back story as you want to, yeah, and then maybe what was the catalyst of really making you kind of flip the switch and, and you know, make some of these huge, huge changes, right? 0:09:35 – Bobby DrummondSo there’s I could. There are so many short versions, a long versions of this, so I’ll try to keep it kind of medium In between. But I mean, I came from like just one school, Mizzou, and was like a party. You was always just something like it seemed like you did whenever you went to, especially at school, like Mizzou, it’s just, it’s a fun time. And after I graduated I just kind of continued to do the party and having the fun. And I graduated I lived in Seward, which is like its own little island of a, of a tramp Honestly Right If you don’t have discipline like me up until recently but then lived downtown and just always around all the action, always around all of the fun. So I wanted to just continue to just throw myself into those fun situations and I prioritize a lot of that over what should have been a lot more important to me. So I was a little bit of blinded by that. I actually come from a family of somatics and so I didn’t really think about any of that. I thought I was okay, because I had a good job and I did throughout that entire process, but it just got to a point where it was really bad. I didn’t really see it. I was almost too close to see it where it was. I mean drinking at lunches and I’ll be completely transparent like drinking and driving on the way home from work each day. And I got to a point where it was I mean, it wasn’t just a drinking, there were some drugs and stuff like that too. But I didn’t even see myself go from someone who was in shape and I worked really hard against my metabolism and got up to about 260-270 somewhere around there and I didn’t even really notice it. But I always said, hey, I want to do this, I want to make this change. But the compound effect of just doing the same thing day in and day out drinking and smoking, pot, stuff like that, eating like shit all just led to a point where I was really unhappy with myself, and in which case I also found myself in a pretty like unhappy relationship. No ill will or anything like that as far as that goes, but I just was too close to see that I needed to make some changes and then I’d all came to a head when me and my ex we decided we were going to break up. We still were living together and we were trying to figure out how to transition out of that. The two nights later, on a Monday night, actually got just loaded and drove home. Should not have. Ironically, the last place that I ever had a drink was Bobby’s place in Valley Park, and I don’t remember driving home, was in and out, was going. I just remember seeing the flash of me going over 100 miles per hour on the way home. So not cool, right? Obviously something that should not do. I could have hurt myself, I could have heard someone else, I could have ended up in jail and next morning ex kicked me out and said, hey, you got to leave. I left and that day I knew that I needed to stop drinking for good. I had been told that multiple times by some people before, but it wasn’t until that, just like with any addict, it doesn’t matter what someone says to you, you have to want it, and in that moment I knew that I had to make that change. So that was on a Tuesday morning, june 23rd, when I got kicked out of there in 2020. That afternoon, my co-worker’s son, I found out, was pronounced brain dead Over the weekend. I did not know this, but her son was hit by a drunk driver and on Tuesday afternoon she had to pull the plug on her son and then fast forward to Thursday. Thursday night, one of my best friends, cory, actually was killed in a drunk driving accident. So from I knew I needed to stop to seeing someone affected by it, and I knew I needed to make a change then to what happened with my buddy Cory. I knew that I was making the right decision to stop and I don’t know if those things wouldn’t have happened if I still would have stayed strong and not drank, but that’s when I knew I had to stop and that’s when I started my process of. That’s when I started also my wellness journey, really, and Kelly Baker or Kelly Bugger now she actually so I trained with her there for a while and I’m going through a lot of this, but I saw coast that she put up about walking like 10,000 steps a day and this was a couple days after everything had happened with my buddy and I was just like I need to start walking and I so much of the weight that I gained was all information and just stuff that I just needed to just go walk, totally right. So I started doing that every single day, sort of listening to a sobriety podcast called sobercast and there’s just literally recorded AA meetings. I never did any sort of formal like AA or anything like that, because it was COVID, there was no readings to attend, except for virtual ones, and I was not that I couldn’t do the virtual, but it just wasn’t as intimate and I didn’t feel like it would make a big impact on me. So I would listen to this podcast that was just recorded AA meetings from anywhere from like the 50s to today and I would find myself listening to these, going on these long walks, like literally in tears, like hearing other people tell these stories, where I felt that exact same way and I engrossed myself into not only walking and doing that, but then that’s when I started my first round of 75 hard back in 2020. 0:15:38 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, yeah, a lot of stuff happened in order for me to get there so that that first week you know and I didn’t know the story about the those two, your from your buddy, corey, and your co-worker son. I mean, man, how crazy. So you? You start this journey, you’re you’re starting, you’re walking, you’re starting to listen to these things. What are you telling yourself at this time, when you’re, you know, when you’re on these walks, when you’re not listening to these podcasts, you know what are some of the things go at your head? And then I want you to even go into the 75 part, because that’s that’s for the people that have listened to the episode about the forge 75 hard had a big impact on us creating the force, the way that it is created and and you know it was obviously a big catalyst for you and and how you kind of continue to go forward, yeah, so, uh, as far as I like thoughts going through my head and stuff like that, I don’t know, I just I couldn’t sleep. 0:16:36 – Bobby DrummondSo I and it wasn’t so much like I didn’t have any weird like withdrawals, where a lot of times when people come out of like if they’re drinking a lot of stuff like that, a lot of times they have some issues and actually need to. They need medicine. Fortunately and unfortunately, it was mostly beer that I drank, so it wasn’t like I was drinking a fifth of vodka day, but, trust me, I drank more than enough beers for everyone in this gym right now. It for a week’s time probably. But a lot of what was going through my head was just, I couldn’t sleep. I’d wake up at 330 in the morning. I would go on these long walks anywhere from two miles to 10 miles just would walk until I just felt like I didn’t want to walk anymore, cause it was the middle of the pandemic, I had no work to come back to, and whenever I, whenever I left, whenever I left my ex’s place, I stayed with my parents, so I didn’t really want to go back home. There’s shame in that, obviously. But there’s not at the end of the day, like I treasure that time that I had with them. But it’s not like a good feeling as a 30 year old to go back and feel like you’re stuck, especially for someone who was doing doing great in their job. But I but obviously had some other issues. And then from like how I I guess I started walking cause I saw Kelly’s post and really wanted to get into just taking better care of myself. I knew I had some weight to lose and that’s when I already knew about 75 hard because I would. I would tell my ex I said, hey, I think I want to do this challenge and she would say, yeah, there’s no way that you can do that. You’ll never be able to stop drinking. So kind of like that that Andy for sell out crabs in the bucket theory like, oh no, you don’t need to do that Cause you’re. You’ll never stop. And that’s not her fault, that’s me. But one of the things that I decided was okay, I can do this now I’m sober, I’ve that’s the hardest thing that was on that list before was the no alcohol for 75 days, and now I’m planning on making this a lifestyle change forever. So the next hardest thing on there was follow a diet plan. I’m like I don’t know what the hell that means. Follow a diet plan? I’m like, was that me? No carbs Like what am I? Just a rabbit for 75 days? So I I hired Kelly as by like a nutrition coach and went through a whole assessment and actually I don’t even know where those pictures. I had to get those pictures, but at that point I was already 35 pounds down. Just from walking, I lost a pound a day and not drinking, and that’s right. Yes, that’s a big part of it. I was still eating like Jimmy Johns and stuff, though I tell you I hadn’t had the diet arc figured out yet, but went to her, got that assessment, figured out what that looked like to follow a diet plan and make some good like lifestyle changes. And I even read your, your, what are you? What do you call those? like a daily newsletter your emails that you sent out this morning talking about like an 80 to 90% clean diet. That was today’s buzzer. 0:19:37 – Jeff PelizzaroWas that yesterday Okay? 0:19:39 – Bobby DrummondYep, I read that this morning and I’ve been. That’s been a really big guideline for me since. But with 75 card, the all the water following the diet plan, the the two workouts a day, those were walks. I, I couldn’t do anything else. I was too fat to run, so I walked and I never. That was the first time when I really understood, like that you have to walk before you run. And I’m like, oh, this makes sense, cause I literally can, literally had to walk. Yeah, and over the course of I actually did 75 hard for 99 days and the reason I did is because we started a separate bet with a group of buddies and I so did 75 hard for 99 days and in those 99 days I lost 70 pounds. Wow, but yeah, that was my journey, man Just reading, and I had not picked up a book since Harry Potter in high school and I know I mean that’s a such a. There’s so much knowledge out there with different books, podcasts and all that. So jumping into some different books that are helping better me, along with the exercise, along with eating better and just building a routine, I mean Andy Forsella changed my life forever. Yeah, and me and him don’t always agree, I don’t know a lot of the things that he talks about, but as he can be a polarizing guy, but like I don’t like fully credit him, cause at the end of the day I did it. But if it wasn’t for that program, I don’t know if I would have found everything that I found in my journey so far. 0:21:10 – Jeff PelizzaroHow, how difficult did you find it through those 99 days probably more so even at the very beginning not drinking and even the struggle of figuring out and I know you had Kelly to help guide you, which I think is a huge, is a huge thing to have somebody that, if you don’t know where you are, what, where to start or what to do, like, find somebody that knows, find somebody that can help you Right, how difficult was it for you to make those adjustments? Let’s maybe first go with the alcohol piece. Sure, because it’s, it’s great to say like, okay, I’m going to stop drinking. And then you know you go a month and then you go two months and like, is that something that kind of kept coming back to you? Or is it something where you know you were like nope done and I’m done for good? 0:21:55 – Bobby DrummondSo big believer in people made changes either out of inspiration or desperation and I was desperate. I think if I was just inspired to make a change, I can’t say that it would have stuck. But I know what I like. I saw what I did, the compound effect of it, and I was able to like be self-aware in that moment to say, look at what you did, look at where your body looks, look at how you feel, look at the way you’ve been acting. And then I was able to look at as far as just I guess, from the alcohol standpoint, I knew what it had done to other people just recently, so I think it was one of those. It just like a switch flipped and I was just like, okay, I’m done. It also helped that it was the middle of the pandemic where there wasn’t that pressure to like go to the happy hours and stuff like that, cause I didn’t live on the St Charles side where COVID didn’t happen. I lived on the side of Lake of the Ozarks, where it did happen and everything was closed down so there were no opportunities to go do stuff like that, which I think helped as well. But as far as like, just for anyone who’s especially. I have so many friends since then cause I shared my story very publicly out there on Facebook for people to follow throughout the process and I had a lot of people reach out to me saying that they were interested in stopping asking me about my story and I’d found a comfortability with, like I could go to the most crowded crazy bar right now and I’d have no problem just going up and ordering a clip soda with a lime and hanging out. They had a fun. That’s probably not gonna be my first choice of what I do, but I would be okay. But for a lot of people out there who are wondering, hey, how am I going to do this? I think I mean first thing you gotta do is find like an accountability partner on that. You know almost declare, hey, I’m gonna do this, even if it’s for 30 days or for a week or if someone wants to make a lifestyle change. It can be hard, but I never thought I would stop drinking. It’s wild to me that I’m three and a half years sober wild but yeah, that’s amazing. 0:23:59 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then, what about the food set? Because you know, the food, the food piece, and these are two pieces that are in the Forge IIs, right, this is talking to anybody that hasn’t been through any kind of a program where you have to stick to this for a long period of time, whether that’s drinking, the diet piece but the food thing is one of those where you know it’s not gonna cause harm to other people. It’s, you know, like. So there’s a different mentality there, right, sometimes and I think I speak for most people listening, I know I speak for myself sometimes you’re just like that’s it, man, I want that piece of cake or those chips or whatever. And so I would imagine it would be fairly easy to rationalize that, hey, I gave up drinking, I can have this. Yeah, did you go through a lot of that, dude? 0:24:47 – Bobby Drummondyes, I literally ate like half of a bed in Jerry’s pipe last night. That’s. My biggest problem is the sweets. So it’s really easy to then revert from something like alcohol to like, honestly, to any sort of sweet, because it still gives you a little bit of that like little domain or whatever it is. Yeah, for sure it’s exciting. Who doesn’t live chomping into half-baked bed in Jerry’s? I know I do. But so on the diet piece I really like, once I understood what like following a diet plan looks like and what to look for whenever I was shopping. And Kelly was an awesome accountability buddy for me where when I was grocery shopping, I would send her pictures of like the nutritional facts on there and just be like, is this okay? And she’ll be like, yeah for sure. And I was like, okay, good, but she gave me a really good outline of some things that would be good and some ways to kind of curb some of those cravings that I had. And then finding some substitutes for someone who does love sweets to substitute for like higher percentage dark chocolate or instead drink like a drink, a protein smoothie or a fruit smoothie, and find some joy in some of those like other foods that are still really good and taste great. They’re just never going to be banjiris. So that was. That was probably the biggest thing for me was just understanding what that looks like, because I think a lot of people’s heads go straight to a diet is going to be something miserable, where you’re gonna be starving all the time, where the way that she set it up for me with the goals that I had was like it was. I still had breakfast, lunch and dinner and I had like little snacks that I could have in between, whether those were almonds or a piece of fruit or something like that, to kind of curb some of those cravings throughout the day without feeling like you had to just completely stop eating. 0:26:37 – Jeff PelizzaroRight when you could kind of actually like live a lifestyle around the food, not some depravity kind of diet where you’re cutting everything out like no cooking, no carbs, eating lettuce. 0:26:48 – Bobby DrummondRight, yeah, didn’t have to do anything like that. I still got to enjoy a lot of really good foods. 0:26:53 – Jeff PelizzaroSo then, when was it that you did the forge? Because I know that and really, really that’s how we kind of connect, I mean separately you work with Kelly, I work with Kelly. But we didn’t really know each other, we didn’t really interact. At that point we kind of had set it a little or whatever. But it wasn’t until, I believe, that you reached out or we connected and you said hey, I’m thinking about doing the forge. 0:27:18 – Bobby DrummondYeah, so that would have been, I guess, december of 2022. Right right before the Ford start in January, and I was so in the mid. I was actually in the middle of doing the whole bit part program, all the different phases of 75 hard and I just was thinking, okay, I want something else. I knew this year I wanted to, like, I wanted to have a lot of focus on golf and even though I’m not playing to make any money except for some side bets, I just I’m Uber competitive and I want to be as good as I possibly can be. So I figured, with a good routine around, a group like community of some golfers would be a cool group of people to hang around with. Plus, like golf is one of those, even though, where you think you can play it, as you get older and older, I still see people that can’t go play golf, can’t swing a golf club, and even though I was in good shape, I thought my thought process was I want some another challenge. I’m very motivated by having like a finish line out there. I was, I think a lot of other people are too but then also just wanted to be in feel as part of a community with something which was definitely captured with what you have going on with the forge. 0:28:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is 1st Phorm. 1st Phorm is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’s a nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with 1st Phorm is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. But really it’s the dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices. But we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse. And it’s not just a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with 1st Phorm. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis, so you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game, the protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with 1st Phorm. You can go to their website, 1stPhorm.com forward slash 18STRONG and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to 1stPhorm.com that’s P-H-O-R-M.com forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products. It’s including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. A lot of people going into the Forge would balk at the drinking and the diet stuff, or those are kind of conceptually the biggest, hardest pieces for a lot of them. You had already tackled those to some degree. Obviously. The drinking, for you know, completely Right. The diet, you know we can all go in waves with that. What were some of the biggest and different challenges for you with the Forge as opposed to the last year and a half of what you already got, sure, so there’s some similarities in there, but also some big differences. 0:31:08 – Bobby DrummondThat a lot of times with the water, I wasn’t always good with drinking that right when I woke up. So 24 ounces, right, Is it 24 ounces? Right off the bat I had found myself drinking like 34 just because I had a bottle that was that big. So I found myself chugging that first thing in the morning. And the EFDs I’m assuming I can cuss on this. 0:31:27 – Jeff PelizzaroYes. 0:31:28 – Bobby DrummondSee, every fucking days. I literally did those this morning. I still do those all the time. That was just another routine to get into the swing of things. But the one thing with 75 hard versus the Forge two is you have just your one IPA right, your intentional physical activity. So where the two workouts was 75 hard, Sometimes I felt like, okay, I can just do recovery day, I can go, I can go walk twice, and there’s times where a walk like makes sense for recovery, especially if you went hard the day before. But I think it really allowed me to want to do something that was going to be more impactful, a more impactful 40 minutes of my day, rather than just going for a 40 minute walk where I could. I mean we did our Sunday smash sessions here and then, other than that, did some other, some other good lifts and and whatnot to some other workouts. But those were, those were a couple of the biggest things there. And then I mean having anything revolving around golf with the right handed and the left handed swings love doing those. So it was one of those things where I wouldn’t say it’d be. I’d feel like kind of a jerk if I said it was easy for me, but to an extent I had done so much of that already and I was coming off of like the last phase of I think I was coming off of phase one, so it just became a good part of a routine. Especially at the beginning of the year. It’s really easy to just say I mean, that’s when a lot of people want to make their changes but they’re not making them for 40-Days. Right, they might be doing it for a couple of weeks. And diets not always the cleanest. So I think I still think that no drinking and the diet’s got to be the hardest thing for anybody, anybody coming into this where, like you said, the drinking is easy. For me the diet’s not easy. I just told you I had to have a pint of Ben and Jerry’s last night what? I have for dinner. Now, I can’t remember what I had for dinner last night. I was focused on the Ben and Jerry’s. But oh, we had tacos. Yeah, and those were delicious. And yeah, not a taco bowl, it was straight up. We had the, we had the flour tortillas and all, but yeah and that comes and goes in waves, and that’s a. I think that’s a big thing that I learned this year, where I just recently like I just joined EFA Empire here what it was like three weeks ago, maybe two weeks ago and up until that, this entire summer has been me, from the time I finished phase three of the live hard program that was June 5th, to just a couple of weeks ago, dude I all I did was play golf, that was it so I guess in cardio and stuff like that. But I was into volleyball a little bit here and there, but I wasn’t lifting and I realized how big of an impact that made on my body. So I just everything with life in general comes in seasons, right, like you’re going to have, you’re going to have a moment, you’re going to have down moments. You just got to try and find that balance. If you ever feel like you’re out of sorts, go back to what you need and that’s where the forge is so perfect for that. Or getting committed to something for a set amount of time and see it all the way through. 0:34:33 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat really brings out to me is it seems like every time you’ve finished something 75 hard or one of the levels, you’ve kind of thrown yourself right back into something. Yeah, I’m assuming that’s by design. Have you has there been a stretch of time where you weren’t doing some sort of program, like the forge or one of the levels of 75 hard or something where you’re in the mix of moving towards a specific time? 0:35:02 – Bobby DrummondYeah, it was just this past summer here, right, it was from June to just a couple of weeks ago, and I let myself go. I mean, I got the pictures of. I started taking pictures again every single day to see what I look like. And, oh, you know, what I didn’t even talk about was the cold showers I’ll get. We can talk about that one for sure. But I love those now, but either way, so that’s that was it like really up until this past June, when I got done with the live hard program, I was like, okay, I can, I’ve heard it, like I’m just gonna do whatever I want for a little while. And, dude, I let myself go a little bit and I talked to Shelby, my fiance, about it too, and she knows how like important it is for me to like continue to move my body and stay in and stay in shape, and that’s why joining here again has completely changed my mindset, where it’s literally on my calendar getting back into our routine and making sure that I’m doing this stuff that helps me not only feel better physically, but lifting weights and stuff like that, it helps me mentally as well. 0:36:06 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat? What differences did you notice just specifically in your golf game? Maybe the both, the way your body feels and everything too. But over the course of this summer, when you weren’t doing this stuff, you weren’t, you weren’t getting in the gym, you weren’t doing probably the EFDs quite as much, you weren’t doing a lot of the physical stuff aside from going and playing golf and going to a lot of cool places. What did that? What did you notice? 0:36:30 – Bobby DrummondSo I felt like I did not recover quickly. So whenever I would go play, even though I’m relatively young, my lower back and my shoulder they were brutal. My right shoulder still does hurt a little bit. I know we were talking about that a little bit, but I’ve been doing a lot of different exercises for that now, with some resistance, band training and some some weight training as well. But going off of something like that and trying to still go do the physical stuff, you’re leaving yourself more susceptible to get injured. Your recovery is not going to be as good Like whenever you go, especially as guys, whenever we go. Lift weights or take cold showers, eat healthier and naturally boosts strength, boosting testosterone levels, without having to feel like you need to start doing steroids. Right, definitely like do the natural things that are going to help you get there and getting getting back into this, as I mean it’s always a huge help. So I mean shoot anyone who’s stuck and not feeling their best there and it’s likely because they’re just not moving their body enough. It’s. They don’t need to take a pill, they don’t need to take more ad bill. They I mean maybe some ad fillary now and then, but probably just need to get back to lifting some weights and doing the stuff that makes you feel good. 0:37:44 – Jeff PelizzaroTell me about the cold showers Okay. 0:37:47 – Bobby DrummondLove cold showers. Now Literally took one this morning, so that was part of. Obviously that’s part of the forge I started those originally. Whenever part of phase one is a five minute cold shower, okay. 0:38:02 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s five minutes, yes, and during the winter it’s totally different. Cold during the summer and St Louis in the wintertime is very different. 0:38:12 – Bobby DrummondSo taking those cold showers at first it was one of those things that, like, I dreaded and it was the thing that I was least excited about, but I would do it first thing in the morning, but now it’s become part of my. Every time I take a shower I’ll have, I’ll use hot water for all my normal stuff and then I’ll finish with at least two minutes of a cold shower. Now, but especially whenever you’re doing the forge, if you’re starting on January 2nd and the cold weather here in St Louis, those pipes are cold. And if you’re, if you’re truly doing a cold shower and you crank that to the lowest setting that it can be on without that shower being off, it’s pretty cold shower. 0:38:52 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, and I found that you know so many people are doing the cold plunges these days, which is, from a physiological standpoint and from what I understand, is more beneficial, sex wise. But there’s something about the cold shower because it’s constantly moving water, hitting some parts of your body and you got to turn around. It’s like every move you make is almost like I don’t really want to do this, but it was so for me, like just the mentality and the confidence of like doing that and overcoming those little challenges. I forget what Andrew Huberman called it. I think he calls it like getting over the wall, like there’s something to be said for the physiological response of the cold shower, but there’s also something about the different walls that you, that you hurdle over, that you don’t want to climb over during that piece, and that’s that’s the thing that I really, really notice with cold showers. I want to talk about your, just your mentality, speaking of confidence and everything. Now, looking back three and a half years ago, where you were, where you are now, I mean, what does it feel like to know that you’ve accomplished what you’ve accomplished? Like when you look at a picture of yourself back then and you think the things you were doing, how you looked, how you felt, like what did? First of all, do you appreciate how much you’ve you’ve changed and how much you’ve done, and just speak to that a little bit for sure? 0:40:16 – Bobby DrummondSo the first thing that I think of it is I’m barely scratching the surface and I’m never satisfied, which is bad, because I have gotten a lot better with practicing gratitude and being appreciative. So I mean, there’s even more that we haven’t talked about. With the forge, with the meditation, visualization, visualization, stuff like that. I’ve been really big on that. So every once in a while, I’ll find myself just like scrolling back through my Instagram to see these pictures of me like holding these cases of beer, like I literally have. I still have a video of me on Instagram chugging a bottle of fireball, and I’m not. I won’t take it down, we’ll have to pull it up, but I think I do appreciate how far I’ve come. I mean, it’s the reason I was able to meet Shelby and my now my now fiance and I. We would have never been able to work, I would have never been fit for a relationship if it wasn’t for me being where I’m at now. So I am very appreciative of that. It’s also allowed me to build my relationship back with my family, which it’s not that I didn’t have one, but I didn’t prioritize seeing them where I like I should. I called my dad in the middle of the day today just just to catch up with him and see how he’s doing, which I never would have done. So I have I have a lot of my priority. I believe I have a lot of my priorities pretty straight and it’s allowed me to build back those relationships with family and with friends, make new friends. I was best. One of the things I was worried about with not drinking was am I going to be fun anymore? And it turns out I’m still a huge weirdo and I still I can still excel in some social situations where I didn’t know if I was going to be able to. So, yeah, I guess from a I can look back and recognize how far I’ve come, I mean whether it’s golf game or just what I’ve been able to accomplish just from a. From a personal standpoint, I do feel great about that. But, like I said, things come and go in seasons and the one thing that I know is a constant is my my no drinking. So the book, the one thing have you read that? So the one thing such that by doing it, will make everything else easier or unnecessary for me. My one thing not drinking, different for everyone, but that is something that I will hold true to for forever. And I’ve had people ask me hey, do you think you’d ever like have a glass of wine or something like that? I’m like I don’t know if I want to find out what that looks like, but all I know is like I’m enjoying myself more than I ever have. I would hate I used to used to hate being by myself because I was kind of alone with my thoughts, and now I really do treasure that time where, even though I am extroverted and in these moments people probably be like, oh my gosh, that guy’s got to be the life of the party, he’s got to have so much fun. I love the time to myself, like wind down at the end of the night, just put my phone on, do not disturb, talk to no one, and I’m very comfortable now with with myself. 0:43:13 – Jeff PelizzaroIs that something that was, there was a challenge for you? 0:43:16 – Bobby DrummondYeah, for sure. I just I always just sought out like the next thing, rather than just being present, be where my feet are. And I think that was a big part of the problem too, was there were some insecurities there. That why I drank a lot and did a lot of things that I did was because I just wasn’t comfortable with who I was. 0:43:37 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat, if any, goals do you have, kind of even just moving through, let’s say, the wintertime, the all season or just kind of in general, with with the whole trajectory that you had? You know, you said you’re you’re barely scratching the surface which I just read, a book by Dr Benjamin Hardy. Okay, actually, having read this book, yet I read the other book that he was talking about on the podcast. He was on Ed, my lead show, he was on our buddy Sean Stevenson show recently, and the book is called the gap in the game. Okay, have you, have you heard of this? I feel like I have heard of it. So it’s just fascinating to me because it reframe the way that I ever really thought about, you know, setting goals, looking goals, how we kind of grade ourselves on our goals, and it talks about the most of us look at the gap from between where we are to the ideal person that we want to be. So, like at the beginning of the of the forge, we tell people like you know, where do you want to be at the end of your 40-Days? Right, what does that look like? Who’s the person that you want to become, the whole identity thing? Well, the problem with being in the gap is that you’re always looking from the standpoint of where you are. And so, even on the 40th day and I want to ask you about, you know, your 70 or your 99th day and your 40th day, when you get there and I do this myself typically we will say, okay, cool, I’m here, but I want to be there and instead of like celebrating, like the game is what it is, you know, looking back and saying, holy shit, look where I was, look where I was three and a half years ago. But I want to be there and like not not taking that time to just be like shit, man, I did some cool ass stuff, yeah that’s a tough thing because there’s there’s student from West people can go with that. 0:45:22 – Bobby Drummondthey either are, they’re never satisfied right, or it’s the add. My lead back to add the thermostat theory of okay, I got here, I got the, I got the thermostat set up to 80 degrees, I got this thing cooking right now, but like 72 is where I’m comfortable, right. So I feel like I’ve gone the other direction where I like if there’s a challenge in place it’s like one, I guess, when you’re typing then I’m good. But once something ends and once I have something set up to start, I feel like I am one who tends to fall back into some of the bad habits. So for me, I wish I had that problem, except Shelby might not want me to have that as much because she’s like hey, like you don’t need to be working out like eight hours a day but and it’s obviously not that much, but it can feel like that whenever I’m here, gone for two like two hour workouts a day. But no, I think you had. I mean, that’s a. That’s not something that I really thought about. Where my next journey is going to be, I think for me biggest thing is developing the better habits, getting back into the gym here consistently, like your your email set today like 80 to 90%, like if you’re at 80 to 90% of your diet on a weekly basis and you’re doing the lifting, you’re moving your body, you’re doing the stretching and taking care of yourself, I think that I mean I’ll get where I want to go If I build that consistency where my problem before was I work out hard for two months and then, or three months even, and the next thing I know it was like, okay, I gave myself like a three week break and I lost so much of what I worked so hard to get back to. So biggest goal for me is just developing that consistency and with a goal of like where I want to go being I want to be stronger, how obviously well it doesn’t hurt to look at me or and be like sup, you look good today. Especially looks great after a cold shower too. And then and then I mean golf game like a shoot man. I had two rounds under par this year, two rounds, one over two rounds at even par, and my goal next year is to shoot 10 plus rounds under par, and I know that I can do that from a mental standpoint. There’s a lot that goes into that, not only on the course but off the course, but from there it’s. It’s what am I doing to make sure that I can play a full 18 holes and my body can be there through all of it in my mental game, can be there through it all too? Plus, I also get a wedding to look awesome, for yeah, that’s right. Not that my shirt will be coming off at the wedding as far as we know, but yeah, yeah, don’t drink that, don’t drink that wine. No, I think it’ll be good on that, and I don’t need any grape juice to make it feel like I’m cooler. 0:48:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou like that, but yeah so what would you say was the effect on your? You know you talked about how, how shooting under par is going to be a ticket to your goal of 10 rounds, or whatever that is, for next year. That that’s a big mental mental game, part right. So how do you feel like your journey has really impacted mentally the way that you approached the game golf? I was there one day when you were about to shoot your lowest round ever and it’s all a little bit of a mental breakdown? 0:48:33 – Bobby DrummondI’m glad to wonder. With three years? 0:48:36 – Jeff Pelizzaroago, 203 to go, and I went a couple of bad decisions and even get went par bogey, double bogey, yeah. So shoot one out. I think so. Yeah, I think so. But nice, let’s wipe that one out of it. But that’s not maybe stronger. Honestly, what you know, what have you noticed when you know you’re obviously thinking clear, you’re not drinking, you’re eating better, but even just the tasks that you’ve complete, the things you’ve done, how has that impacted the way you’ve approached the game of golf, the way that you approach mentally out there, right, if it does it does. 0:49:06 – Bobby DrummondI mean, if you feel better, that always helps. I remember going out and playing, playing golf, whenever I was hungover or like not completely hydrated, didn’t have a routine before. So I think routine to me is everything, and I know one of the one of the rapid fire questions kind of goes into this, but I’ll speak to it a little bit now. But like, having a like like your free throw right, like a basketball player is going to have the same free throw, like, I guess, approach every single time they go do it If they. I remember Rip Hamilton. They want to. It was one of my favorite players and he would dribble twice in front of them, once to the side and then went up and shot us free. There’s players that throw it Like I think Yannis goes behind his back and does something weird twice, I can’t remember, but everyone has their thing now in basketball outside of a free throw. You don’t have time to do that in golf. Like if you I saw some sort of statistic on this that if you break down golf in like the moment that you’re actually hitting a ball, it comes out to like 80 seconds. Yeah, like there’s 80 seconds of moments that happen in an 18 whole round of golf. That is going to impact your entire round. So it’s all about the approach into it and the thoughts afterwards. So I think just from a from a sobriety standpoint like that makes I’m very clear, like just going into the day. Obviously I was listening to a, or actually was watching this YouTube video earlier with Shane Lowry and he’s talking about. I mean, shane Lowry looks like a guy that is just drinking pints. Yes, like left and right, like all day. He talks about how whenever he’s in a tournament he doesn’t have a single beer, has a single drink. He’s laser focused in on on that week and I think the clarity is one piece of it. But then feeling good, doing the stretches, knowing that you’re you’re getting your body warmed up in the right way, and then from there, like you still don’t know what’s going to happen in a round of golf, you can still mess up. I mean, shoot for for the 73 that I shot yesterday. Over the weekend I shot an 85, right, like it’s, there’s there’s a give and take to the game, so you can only do so much and then from there you just got to let the golf gods you know it from there. 0:51:06 – Jeff PelizzaroHas it played into how you react to those things? You said you know you can run a little hot. Yeah, that was that. 0:51:11 – Bobby Drummondget pissed Still kind of can still get pissed. But that’s a big part of it too is recognizing that then the only thing that matters is the next shot. It’s not the next hole, and a big part of what I’ve done is given myself. I’ll say it myself Like first round that I shot under par this year. I kept on giving myself permission to go low. Part of that is like the visualization of like and I can talk about that a little bit too but just like almost manifesting that that was going to happen and telling myself that I am a great golfer and I have the capability. I’m going to shoot under par this year. And I was doing that and I told my buddies you can ask a lot of my buddies I told them I’m going to shoot under par this year. Up until then, my best friend ever was too over par. Yeah, I’d never even shot even or one over at that point. And I just kept on giving myself permission to go low, permission to make birdies, permission to hit great shots and my only focus during the round of golf was is that specific shot Not? Oh gosh, I got the next one, you get birdie, get next par five it’s. I need to recover here. I need to get up and down from the sand or I just need to hit this sand shot somewhere on the grade to get me a chance and almost, like, almost playing the game of uh, like, where’s my miss? Like, no, I can’t short, I can’t short side myself over there, or else I’m leaving myself with almost an impossible shape If I’m going to miss. I got to miss right where I can play and I spun up there. Um, so there’s so much that goes into it and I’m not, like, the best golfer in the world, but, um, I I feel like I’m trending that direction. Where I have, I I’m very capable of playing some excellent rounds of golf, which will be, which can be a lot of fun. 0:52:51 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, what I think is really cool about you know, being able to bring you on in some of the future episodes we do is, you know, like you’re a guy that has a job, you’re a guy that is doing what most of the people listening to this podcast you’re trying to go from an eight down to a one right, or from a 15 to a nine or whatever. Whatever your level of golf you’re at, you’ve been able to do that and it’s it’s been through a lot of hard work, it’s been through a lot of dedication. Um, what would you say has been like the the biggest gratifying piece, golf wise, from this whole journey. Obviously, getting down to a one is cool, but yeah, you know, is there anything else other than any other piece that you would say is? 0:53:31 – Bobby Drummondit’s kind of like the quite a little crown like from, just like a like a result, same point. Like what was the moment? Yeah, and my first friend under par was the coolest thing ever. Man, I uh I was playing out of sand valley at uh mammoth dunes and the day before um me and the injured played, uh, aaron Hills. Oh yeah, and I shot a 92. Uh, we played from the tips there, which is stupid. 0:53:53 – Jeff PelizzaroHe’s 7,800 yards. 0:53:55 – Bobby DrummondLike Brooks Kepke, like the fact that he shot one like 18, 17 under at the US open there back in 17 is stupid that, um, but I saw I shoot a 92 the day before and going out to play the next morning morning on mammoth dunes and had a caddy that day. Um and uh, it was actually a caddy that we had had before because we we made two trips to sand valley this year. We made one in April and then one in July, so we can go play the Lido whenever that opened. And um, playing out of mammoth dunes I had uh shoot, I’m sure I know that I was playing great Like all throughout the entire day. I got to 300 with three holes to go and I kept on telling myself give myself permission to go low. Um, one of the things that Trent and chat up to Trent and Jensen, um, he’s actually not even on Instagram. 0:54:43 – Jeff PelizzaroSo if he, if he gets to see this. 0:54:45 – Bobby DrummondI’ll have the same to him. But he kept on saying throughout the round he’s like PMA, positive mental attitude. He’s like you get next shot, baby, be a goldfish. And um, I just took that to heart and just was so laser focused on what I was doing 300, three holes to go, um, I got to 300 by eagling uh, 15, uh out there at me with dunes, and then I went bogey, bogey and I’m in. I hit my, uh, my drive on 18 into the, the fairway bunker on the right there with super high left. I have to hit a pitching wedge out of it and I still have like two, 30 in the wind. I hit a three wood over the green, um, which there was a bunker right behind it. So I have to get up and down now to shoot under par. For my first round ever, I hit a shot to five feet and I have like a probably like a four inch slider left to right and bust in there for one under par and that was to me beating the course, was I mean, and that course beat me up that day, like there’s no doubt? But, um, I outplayed the course that day and I think under shooting under par to me was has always been such a big deal because it means that I beat the course, that I set out to go play Um, and that was probably the most satisfying moment. I mean I’ve had a few other great moments throughout the year, uh, throughout the year of playing, but that was the biggest. I mean it was I broke the seal right, it was um or it’s finally happened. Now it can happen again. Um, and then since then, um, two rounds, even par, another round, one under par, and uh, I mean shoot like a 73 yesterday, meadowbrook. I’ll take that all day, all day. So, uh, from there now, my next part of the journey is now I need to shoot a couple under par cause. Uh. The next step is 60s, right, get around in the 60s. So um, 69 or better is the next. Uh is the next target for like man with dunes was the. 0:56:38 – Jeff PelizzaroThe four minute miles broke that yes, so I allowed you to you know 10 and start breaking it down. 0:56:42 – Bobby DrummondAnd now my thought is like I need to go out and beat as many courses as I can. Yeah, so I love that All right man. 0:56:48 – Jeff PelizzaroWe’re going to finish up with our traditional questions. Sweet On the 18STRONG podcast Looks like you’re coming in hot and prepared. 0:56:53 – Bobby DrummondI have. I have a couple of them that I wanted to make sure I had written down, so I didn’t forget. 0:56:57 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right. So first and foremost, Candy Shack or happy Gilmore, yeah. 0:57:01 – Bobby DrummondSo uh, it’s a toss up, but I think I got to go happy Go why it’s a classic. I just watched her recently too, so I feel like I’m a little recency bias. 0:57:09 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t seen it in a little while. I think it’s about time for me to introduce my son, sam, to to. 0:57:13 – Bobby DrummondCandy Shack, heck, yeah, well, he’ll love the cool scene. Yes, he will. That’s a good one. 0:57:18 – Jeff PelizzaroOh, bob gone, Get something from the kitchen. Yeah, there you go. Probably a good call, all right, walk-up song. What’s your walk-up song to the first? He’s so I’m a huge Dave Matthews fan, that’s right. Yes, tell him how big of a Dave Matthews fan. 0:57:31 – Bobby DrummondHi, so it well. What’s funny is there’s people who are much bigger fans than me, just based on shows they’ve seen. But I’ve seen 81 Dave Matthews shows now, so travel all over to go see him and they’re one of my favorites. And you know, it was hard for me to pick a walk-up song because I love so much different kind of music and a lot of people think that that’s the Only band I listen to. But I would have you go warehouse by Dave Matthews. 0:57:55 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, yeah, is there a book that you’ve read that has meant a lot to you, or something that you’ve given to people as gifts, or something that you’d love to? 0:58:02 – Bobby Drummondrecommend. Yep. So I, every person who joins my sales team, actually gets the book a relentless solution focus, so written by dr Jason Selk. He’s actually well yeah, the same Lewis, do you know? 0:58:13 – Jeff PelizzaroI’m that. I know that want to get him on the show, yeah so well I can make an intro. 0:58:19 – Bobby DrummondHim and Ellen Reed yeah, I have that Ellen on the show. Okay, sweet I. So they. They tell a lot of the same story, right, but they have different I mean different versions of it. And I’ve read that book now all the way through, probably four or five times, and Every person on my team gets that book and the whole premise of that book is it’s kind of similar to. It’s similar to the one thing where you find stuff like okay, what’s the one thing that I can do? So set by doing it will make everything else easier unnecessary but relentless solution focus is a lot more looking at like what Jason calls the mental chalkboard. So you have the problem side and the solution side, and a lot of times people will try to do one thing to make something better and it doesn’t work and they never go back to the problem side, knowing that they’re still an issue. So it’s all about being relentless in your pursuit, to continue to ask yourself what’s one thing that I can do to make this better, no matter what the situation is personal, professional, mental, emotional, physical, no matter what it might be and the whole premise of the book is that you’re a happier person and I was supposed to be ratifier, so maybe I shouldn’t do that. I’m into this detail, yeah, but the whole premise of the book is that there’s the nasty six negative emotions, which are fear, anger, stress, anxiety and depression. And oh wait, that’s five. Fear, stress, anxiety kills, depression and something else. Well, we’ll figure it out later. But those different types of feelings cause your brain to release cortisol, which is that fear-inducing chemical that causes you to profound poorly, behave irrationally where people that are solution focus, and that will actually release dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. So to me that’s okay. Like, instead of just saying I don’t notice something, or Just giving up or complaining about something, instead, if you’re trying to move yourself forward and find solutions to a given problem, you’re going to be a happier person as as you look for those solutions that happen. So big thing for me, especially on a on a team that sells insurance. We, if I have happier people working for me, I believe that happier people are going to sell more insurance, which is always good. But I also just that book. It completely changed my life and it’s a big part of why I Really do feel like I was able to shoot under par this year’s because a lot of the visualization and the mental workouts that Jason silk has throughout there. So I would absolutely 100% recommend anyone read that book. What was an immediate, relentless solution focus? Yeah, I’m saying, louis guy. Yeah, all right. 1:01:00 – Jeff PelizzaroWho would be your dream for some. Yes, you got to pick anybody, any time, any place. You know who are the people you’re taking. So these are all goats. 1:01:09 – Bobby DrummondOkay, the way just so you know, tiger, yeah, obviously, yeah, they go play with tiger, even though he’s got one leg. The goat Michael Jordan because again we’re that guy has got to be just an absolute trip. And then my, my personal, I mean, I don’t even know if they Matthews golfs, but I wanted to that golf part with me, right? So, and he’s that, he’s the go to music. Same for me. 1:01:30 – Jeff PelizzaroCan you imagine Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods and their banter and nothing on the golf course? 1:01:35 – Bobby DrummondHe’s that’d be amazing. That would be an I’d love to be a part of that. That was a hard one to come up with, because there’s I feel like there’s so many people that I would love to play with, but I feel like that would be my dream for some, for sure. 1:01:46 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, bucket list course, if we could seal up to the 18STRONG jet we’re taking you anywhere. I feel like there’s a lot of people that say Augusta and St Andrews, god damn it. And so I’m gonna. I’m gonna make this rule now, yeah, okay. Here on out it’s like it will a fortune RST LNE. You can’t take you. We already give you the okay, okay. So I’m throwing you a little curveball. Yeah, but you know, but if you have a real reason why you know, yeah. 1:02:10 – Bobby DrummondWell, you know, what’s funny is I literally put those are the only two down, plus I got some the old course. So I’m like, I’m, I’m Scottish, so and I, my family, we trace our family heritage back there. So I, that’s definitely a huge one. But if I had to pick, so because I, I don’t know, it feels like I mean, you can’t get everywhere, obviously like you want to go somewhere where no one else, yeah, can play, which is why Augusta is obviously such a huge draw. But if we were to go somewhere right now, I’d say, and it’s gonna be somewhere, I haven’t played right. Yes, I’m supposed to play there this next year, but I’d say let’s go to be in the dens, yeah. 1:02:49 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t been there yet, but I mean, everything says that’s, that’s where you gotta go, yeah or like a, maybe like a Cyprus, I don’t know. 1:02:56 – Bobby Drummondsee, now is see if I would have had a little bit more time. That’s right, I’ll have to let you know later where? 1:03:00 – Jeff Pelizzaroso if all the places you played, where would you say I want to go there again today? 1:03:05 – Bobby DrummondSan Valley. Yeah, san Valley was super special not, and it was special before I shot one under par that course there, but it’s such a cool. Like you, your stay, you stay on resort there. I’m sure Bandon’s pretty similar to this as a lot of resort golf courses to you, but the people there were incredible the caddies, the food, the experience. You walk every single round of golf and you’re playing golf the way who’s meant to be played, which is walk 18 holes right. 1:03:33 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right, I think you alluded to this earlier. Yep, best piece of golf advice that you’ve ever been given. 1:03:38 – Bobby DrummondYep so I did create your own like kind of free throw routine. If you’re anyone who’s ever played with me, if they might start paying attention to it now. But I do the same thing before every single shot. Same different club twirls, same way I line up my shot. My footwork is the exact same thing. I have the same kind of approach every single thing that I do. My kind of like the hitch in my giddy-up is what I do to get comfortable over a wall and I have a lot of it too. Between creating a free throw routine a lot of it is like then just the trigger and go. So Once you have like a good routine that’s consistent, don’t stray from that. Even if you have a bug flying your ball, something messes you up, don’t feel like you have to rush back into that shot. Create the whole routine over all the way through. But you might have different routines for Driver, to irons, to bunker, to putter, but be consistent in whatever that is. You’ll find yourself be more comfortable over your golf ball. 1:04:33 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s great you guys are in. Is there one social media? Is there an account on social media? Is there an account on social media that you think the 18STRONG career should follow somebody? It doesn’t have to be golf, I’m not give insurance, could just be somebody cool mindset or anything, all right. 1:04:50 – Bobby DrummondSo I had two for this, but I’ll start with one because he’s saying Lewis guy, the part train, oh yeah, yeah, the Evans, an awesome, follow the end. I actually want a putter from them. This past year I don’t know if I told you that, no, I want a meridian putter from them on there. And then we went back and forth and we’re talking a little bit after I told my address was a st Louis one and then I actually Play golf with one of his like high school buddies not too long ago with Corey, okay. And so the part train is great. I’ve listened to a lot of their podcasts, a lot around the mental game and I think so many of my buddies that I go play with. And Actually, back to Jason Selkin, a lot with solution focus. He talks so much about the way you talk to yourself like you’ll start to believe that. So if you tell yourself that you suck on the course, if you tell yourself You’re terrible, that you’re gonna hook this drive, that you’re gonna slice it, whatever it might be, like yours manifesting it, yeah, you, if you say it enough, you’ll end up believing yourself. So I think the part train talks a lot about that. Yeah, awesome, you had another one. No, laying up. Those guys are just awesome. They’re they’re YouTube chain. I love their YouTube channel. They create a lot of really good content, but those are both great. Great follows, awesome. 1:06:07 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, brother, I can’t thank you enough for coming on. One last question would be so anybody that is is out there Looking to make changes and this is about the forging, not about the forge Somebody that’s maybe on the fence of doing something like that Sure, what would you say to them If they’re kind of toiling, you know, I think indecision is one of the biggest things that we have that regarding making commitment, not making or making a change, and I’m not making change what would you say to that person? It’s kind of on the fence or they’re thinking about doing something like the forge. 1:06:35 – Bobby DrummondYeah, I just a full band-aid off and do it. A lot of times people, I’ve talked to a guy here recently that is like me, I’m just prepared myself to go do 75 hard and I’m like, just do it, what are you waiting for? But I get it because I hired a nutrition coach and sometimes you got to get yourself right mentally. But Not only you have to make the decision. If you don’t want to do it, then you’re never gonna do it. So you have to really know that you want it and then from there you have to employ some like your support system on that. So whether that’s a spouse, a significant other, a friend that you’re doing that with every single day, if you don’t have someone that’s kind of there by your side, through it it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be tough and that’s where, like, the forge serves that purpose. And there’s a community of people right here in St Louis that we’re getting together on Sundays and sharing posts about it on on the forge community page on Facebook. So you just got to find your community and that’s where I know I mentioned it before and it it seems kind of silly because I know a lot of people, but I mean what the 18STRONG community has done for me is helped me so much this year, where I’ve gotten to meet so many cool people yourself included, obviously and it just kind of gives you a sense of belonging. And if you don’t have something like that right now, just dude, they need to come up here and and meet you first and foremost, and then do a mandatory golf Friday or start the forge and talk with someone about it. Awesome, all right man. 1:08:06 – Jeff PelizzaroThank you enough for sharing your story and everything, and we’ll be seeing each other on the links for sure. Awesome Cool. Thanks for listening to the 18STRONG podcast. Don’t forget to go follow us over on Instagram at 18STRONG and if you found this episode helpful and want to help us spread the 18STRONG mission, we’d really appreciate if you shared with your friends. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf.

Guest: Hayden Buckley – PGA Tour golferHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 353Podcast: The 18STRONG PodcastPartners: Linksoul, 1stPhorm Summary Join us for an exciting conversation with PGA golfer, Hayden Buckley, where we touch on his journey in the world of golf, the challenges he faced, and how he overcame them. Hayden candidly shares his experiences on the PGA tour, the effects of his rib injury, and how the new PGA tour structure impacts his participation in signature events. He also talks about his amazing hole-in-one at the iconic 17th hole at TPC Sawgrass. Listen in as we discuss how Hayden stayed competitive even after a break from the game due to his injury. He reveals the mental and technical aspects that contributed to his success and how his experience on the tour has helped him manage his thoughts and emotions in high-pressure situations. We also examine his golf strategies and his work with Scott Fawcett to optimize his performance. We delve into the balance between consistency and top-five finishes and the role of stats and analytics in golf. In our chat, Hayden unveils his unique approach to the PGA tour, limiting his time on the course and taking more rest days. Finally, he shares the thrilling story behind his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass and his experiences playing in front of large crowds. Hayden’s journey offers valuable insights for every golf enthusiast, so don’t miss this episode! Main Topics (00:03) Hayden Buckley’s Injury and PGA Return Hayden Buckley talks PGA tour structure, his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, and Lynxhole discounts. (10:47) A Golfer’s Experience in a Tournament Hayden’s success was attributed to his positive mindset, technical game, and Si Woo Kim’s chip-in on the 17th hole. (16:48) Mental Preparation and Handling Pressure Hayden Buckley used mental and golf technique strategies to manage emotions and stay competitive on the PGA tour, taking breaks and practicing differently. (25:31) Reviewing the Golf Performance and Strategy Hayden Buckley’s performance, consistency, top-five finishes, stats, analytics, driving, and rib injury are discussed, with focus on Scott Fawcett’s optimization of off-the-tee performance. (34:29) Improving Golf Performance and Partnership Announcement Hayden Buckley, PGA, is taking a break from the PGA tour, playing nine holes a day, taking Mondays off, and partnering with First Form to promote nutrition and wellness. (39:27) Impressive Partnership and Memorable Golf Moment Hayden Buckley’s success is explored, focusing on his mental and technical game, strategies, and new approach to the PGA tour. (48:38) Crowds’ Impact on Golf Performance Hayden Buckley recounts his PGA tour experience, from his rookie year to the US Open, and his hole-in-one at TPC Sawgrass, emphasizing the impact of grandstands on performance. (52:33) Golf Crowds and Future Expectations Hayden Buckley shares his experience on the PGA Tour, using crowds to his advantage, adapting to the new structure, and aiming for the top 10 on the FedEx Cup. (01:02:15) Sawgrass Redemption and Season Plans Hayden Buckley, PGA, plans to limit course time to nine holes a day, prepared for tournaments like the Memorial and FedEx Cup, and shared his story of a hole-in-one at Sawgrass. Follow Hayden Instagram: @hbuckley13 Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) 0:00:04 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG podcast, episode number 353 with Hayden Buckley, pga, to our golfer. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG the podcast, where our mission here is to help you build a stronger game, because we believe that everybody deserves to play better, longer. This week we have our buddy, Hayden Buckley, long-time friend of the 18STRONG podcast and 18STRONG community, on our show, and Hayden’s here to talk about his year. Last year he ended up number 60 in the FedEx Cup playoffs but suffered a bit of a rib injury or intercostal injury at the end of the year. That really impacted his year. So we talked about how that impacted his position at the end and then also what the new structure of the PGA tour is going to look like next year and how that impacts his ability to play in tournaments like the signature events we discussed. You know what it means for him for the FedEx Cup playoffs and also what it was like getting back to playing in the FedEx Cup playoffs after that injury. And then we really close out with talking about his insane hole in one that he had at TPC Sawgrass on the iconic number 17 hole, the island green and what that meant to him and really how that’s going to live on and in for me from here on out, so you’re going to enjoy this episode. Right after this, our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, whether that be casual, whether that be to the beach there’s all different options over there. So go to 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18STRONG dot com slash Linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. Hey, buckley, welcome back to the 18STRONG podcast. Buddy, sounds like it’s a little little toasty down there, huh yeah, it’s. 0:02:24 – Hayden BuckleyIt’s nice to be back. I wish I was maybe a little more north right now. I think it was 95 this morning out on the course, so I’m enjoying the AC right now. 0:02:33 – Jeff PelizzaroSo when, when are you back in competition? Now? I know this week is the as we’re recording is the Fortinet, so you’re taking this week off, but what’s what’s the first event? 0:02:43 – Hayden Buckleyyeah, I’m gonna start back at Sanderson farms. You know, the home state event in Mississippi, obviously a lot of good history there. I think that starts maybe first week of October, so we’ve got another two or three weeks. You know, I just thought, you know, I could have played an apple this week honestly, honestly, physically. But you know, with my injury at the end of last year I thought it was probably better. I came back a little early playing Memphis, I think, against doctors orders, I kind of. I may have ignored a few things, but I came back and, you know, felt great, I really I felt great sense, but I thought it’d be good to just get a full rest in and, you know, really hit like five out of seven term is this fall instead of all seven. 0:03:22 – Jeff PelizzaroYou know I’ll have plenty of chances to play good yeah, I mean, given the situation and we’ll talk about your injury in a sec here, but you know you’re going right into the playoffs kind of wanted to try to make a little bit of a run there and see what happens. So tell us, refresh it for anybody that doesn’t know what was going on with you. What happened with the injury, how did it happen? You, what was the whole, the whole thing? 0:03:46 – Hayden Buckleyyeah, you know, I think it was travelers championship I had missed a few cuts in a row. I played well to PGA championship, missed maybe two or three cuts in a row leading up to the travelers and shop four or five under on Sunday. On Friday maybe missed a cut by one, maybe two. And, you know, woke up Saturday morning, decided to fly home to Florida hang out with my wife, our dog, just, you know, a relaxing weekend. After three or four missed cuts. I needed something like that, you know. And woke up Saturday morning 6 am flight, which was pretty miserable, they all are. Got home around noon, you know, kind of complained about some pain in my ribs. You know, figured it was just from traveling, from playing kind of normal stuff for me. And you know, got home that night and I was like man, I still can’t. I still can’t really breathe. Well, it’s still hurting. Something’s kind of off, let’s sleep on it. Woke up some Sunday morning and I was like man, this is, this is the same same injury that I felt yesterday. Nothing’s improved. And sure enough, monday I was in an MRI machine getting it checked out and sure enough, it was a torn intercostal muscle. I guess it’s somewhere. You know it probably better than I do, but somewhere in the rib cage something tore and I was told you don’t really feel it. Maybe that day, because you know, again Friday I felt no pain. I played good golf, shot three or four under, kind of felt like I turned a little page in my struggling of three weeks and, you know, felt nothing at all. And then all of a sudden Saturday I’m like it was. You know we laugh about it now but I was telling my wife like I’m laying down in the bed and I can’t breathe and I’m like, look, I, I promise you I’m not out of shape or you know I’m not, I’m not getting old, I just something. Something is really happening every time I take a deep breath and it was. It was a pretty miserable week. I would say probably seven to ten days of just every breath. You know we were sitting there eating dinner. She made me last one day and I said you got to get out, I got to get out of the room, you got to get out. I can’t even laugh, I can’t sneeze, kind of those little basic things I couldn’t do. But after about ten days and started to feel better, got into Pete’s tea, found these really great doctors down here at HSS West Palm. They were just unbelievable. They I mean they. They told me about six to eight weeks was the time frame to come back and I was looking at the schedule. Like Memphis is in six weeks. You know I’m 42nd on the FedEx Cup playoffs list. You know clearly I’m in the playoffs but I’ve got a good chance of making Eastlake this year with a couple you know a couple good finishes to the year. And so it was pretty tough to hear that six to eight week minimum. But I went to PT, you know, three days a week. First two weeks was kind of relaxing, you know. As you know, you got to let the injury kind of calm down and slowly got back into it. I was a little bit scared but also I told myself you know what’s there to lose, you know I’m gonna do it right, but also I’ve got my card for next year, no matter what. So I mean, obviously I don’t know who knows the the new schedule, but the fall is not as can’t say, it’s not as important. But if you’re in the top 50 the fall really means nothing. And that was kind of where I was at the time in the top 50 and you know. So I kind of went in with like an all or nothing kind of attitude and, you know, started working hard and in about six weeks in I was at Memphis and hadn’t swung a club in six weeks, a little nervous. On Tuesday I went out and played nine holes for the first time and you know I hit some little, you know probably 280-yard drives out there right down the middle and I really felt good but I was nervous, you know, as you can expect, and you know I ended up playing well. It didn’t help that it was 140 degrees in Memphis, Tennessee, at the time. But you know, physically swinging the club I felt okay, but more physically like actually playing golf, walking 18 holes every day, that kind of hurt a little bit, I’d say. After the week, you know, I was saying I finished T40 or whatever I finished, had no chance of making the top 50. Unfortunately I’d fallen back to you know, 55, 56 at the time and needed probably a top 10 to get to the next week and you know it was one of those. Like you know, I got through it, played the playoff event like I wanted to, pretty close to home where I grew up. I’ve got, you know, as much time as I need in this fall to fully heal. So that’s kind of the goal now was let’s do as minimal golf from Memphis until now, which I’ve done. I’ve maybe played three times maybe. So on a club two or three times, let’s do a lot of PT, a lot of work. Now. Just get stronger and skip Napoli, let’s go to Mississippi and so you know, if you look at the calendar, a good, solid two months of rest, maybe a month and a half. I think that’s the recipe for me, at least long term, to get back, have success and at the end of the day I could skip every tournament this fall and still have a season next year. So you know, the goal is to be back in January and be healthy at Sony that’s. We’ve had a little bit of success there in the last two years, so that’s the goal right now. You know, unfortunate, I’m still a little upset about it. You know a lot of it’s my fault, sure, not taking care of my body for whatever reason. You know you can always be better, better food, better rest, you know, whatever it may be, but you know part of the process, I’ve been hurt before. Actually, when we met me and you was pretty much, I would say it was about a year after I got hurt, but my junior year of college I got hurt and ran into you about a year later. So good things come from injury sometimes so. 0:09:28 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you have any any issues with it at all? Do you feel it at all? Is it in the back of your head at all when you’re out there playing? 0:09:34 – Hayden Buckleystill. You know, every once in a while I and I talked to my PT about this. You might have some insight. But you know, if anything I’ve noticed, like a little bit of shortness of breath, you know it’s because it is in that rib region where you’re taking deep breaths and I, you know, I don’t know if there’s just a little damage still up there or what. But you know, I have noticed some issues with some cardio and maybe that’s just the rest that I’ve gotten the last three months and haven’t done as much walking on the golf course. But you know, besides that, not really I’m working out a lot. Even in PT we’re doing a lot of strength stuff, you know. You know, feeling kind of like myself, like I did three months ago, um, but you know I’m not trying to push anything, obviously that’s that’s. The hardest part is I don’t want to swing as hard as I can, like I used to, and, um, you know I’ll get there, though I think I’ll get there. But at the same time I’ve kind of noticed, you know, my iron plays improved a little bit, swinging a little bit smoother. You know, even at Memphis when I was hurt, it was probably the best I’ve driven the ball. I think I was top six or seven and strokes came off the tee that week. Really, I mean, it was some of the best I drove the ball all year and I know I wasn’t hitting it as far, but something, something kind of clicked, I don’t know what it was. Um, I think, yeah, I think we’re on the right track. You know, obviously you want to be cautious and not re-injure yourself. You know that’s the only thing that can keep me out of playing good golf. Um, but you know I’ll have, I’ll have good programs and I’ll be ready to go. 0:11:03 – Jeff PelizzaroYou’re in about three weeks so, looking back on last season, you mentioned the Sony. You’ve had some success there. Obviously last year came in second place. Um, you know you were right there all day on Sunday. Uh, See Woo Kim came in and shot a 64, I think on that that final day. Um, I mean just just came in but you had I mean I’ve got it written down here four, four rounds, I think, two, 64s, a 67, a 68. So, like, coming in on a Sunday, did you have the lead going into Sunday? 0:11:36 – Hayden BuckleyI believe it was a two, I think it was a two shot lead. I actually had a crazy Saturday round where I didn’t do anything on the front. I think I might have three putted for par on nine, a par five, and I was kind of like, you know, we, we need to do something. But again, I hadn’t played all winter. You know, last winter I got married, went on a honeymoon, we, you know, we moved to Jupiter. I didn’t touch a club all winter and showed up to Sony and it was like here we are with the lead on Sunday. It was kind of it was a little bit bizarre, but I did hole out for eagle on 10 on that Saturday round and then I think I made I want to say I parred the rest of the, the next seven holes maybe, made a bogey somewhere and then made eagle on 18. So I had two eagles and nine holes, took a two shot lead and I’m sitting there going. Man, this is like what’s going on. You know I haven’t played in a month and a half, maybe two months, it’s all kind of. But again my brain was kind of low expectations. You know, I was just kind of out there enjoying it and you know I played good on Sunday. I think I know I buried. I think I buried the first hole in Sunday and so I got off to a pretty decent start and played solid. I just I know down the stretch I made a bogey on 15. I knew I was like that’s gonna kind of hurt me, but I came back and burdened 16 immediately, had a look on 17 and had a look on 18. There you know I laugh. Now I’m working with a putting coach, eric Dietrich, down here in Jupiter, and Actually a guy I went to college with. You know we played college golf together and he’s now a putting coach and I saw him one time before I went to Hawaii. We cleaned up a few things and then we kind of joke, we look back at the videos that were on TV. You know the pot I made on 16. I had the worst stance, the worst Grip, the worst, everything made the pot. And then on 18 I had a pretty awful pot and missed it. But you know we look back at that where we were and I had a great putting week. You know looked awful from a technical standpoint but I had a great putting week and we we laughs about it a lot because now we’ve cleaned up a lot of things, my putting’s improved. I think I went from, you know, 175 and putting last year to maybe 85 this year. So we’ve, we’ve done a lot of great things this year. I’ve been really enjoying that work. But again, you know, I almost won a golf tournament Not looking great putting and I personally felt like I put a terrible, but the stats that I put up pretty good. So you know, I did everything I could. I made 30 footers for birdie all day Sunday and I didn’t lose by any means, I just got beat. That’s kind of the phrase I told myself is the guy shot six on your own Sunday and he was the last group, it’s really. He did chip in on 17, which hurt. I made a pot, I’m not kidding. You was a 10 second window. I made the puddle and 16 Everybody went nuts. You know, I’m kind of my heart’s racing, I’m feeling great. I looked up at the scoreboard and it literally adjusted. You could see it go from T1 to my name, just jumping on top and I’m like alright, this is, this is my time, you know. And then 10 seconds, I’m not, I’m not off the green yet on 16 and everybody goes nuts on 17 and so obviously I assumed he made birdie. I end up seeing the video he chipped in. You know Hit a great chip, made it and then made a good birdie on 18 and I didn’t, so just got beat. You know, looking back on it it set me up for a great you know a great rest of the year. Unfortunately it did keep me out of the Masters and you know a lot of different perks of winning, but I know that I’ll have. I’ll have many more opportunities for that. 0:15:14 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean I pretty much watched that whole, that whole day. It was awesome to be able to sit and watch pretty much every shot that you hit that day right and Text him back and forth with people. You know, people in the 18STRONG crew, they’re all, they’re all Hayden Buckley fans. So I’m getting text left and right and Literally watch you sink that putt and then you’re right, I mean it was within seconds. He chips that, that ball in. But what impressed me so much that day was just watching you and Like the way you carried yourself throughout the day and I want to get some insights into, if you remember, kind of your mindset, just kind of going through that day. You know, knowing that you’re tied for the lead, you’re in the lead, you’re, you’re right there for the lead. But you mentioned that you birdied after one of your bogeys. You had two bogeys that day and you both of those you birdied the very next hole and I thought that that was so cool to see because each time you just kind of bounce back and you’re like all right, right back in it and you know just having that mentality because we’ve all Been in our own games where you know one shot, one bad shot takes you down a rabbit hole. We see it happen into the pros, you know. I’m sure you’ve had experiences out there where you hit a bad shot or two and the round just kind of goes off the Rails. But this one you just bounce right back, you’re right back in it. So what was kind of your thought process through the day? I know you said you hadn’t played in a long time. It was kind of like getting back in the swinging things. But here you are getting ready to possibly win a pj champion or pj tournament and and you know what was it like. 0:16:45 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, I think it’s timing. Honestly, I mean, I really do. I think, it being the first term of the spring may not playing for a month and a half, I had no thoughts. You know I, obviously on Saturday night I had thoughts. I’m sitting there going, oh wow, I’m about to win a golf tournament. This is anything I was nervous everybody is. If they say they’re not, they’re crazy. And you know, I kind of fight that with myself, thinking like you’re not nervous, don’t worry about it. But it’s like man, just embrace the nerves. I Think the timing of it helped, you know, helped and hurt, right like I. You know it’s hard to find confidence when you haven’t played in a month and a half because there’s some shots that you need to hit that you know, if you haven’t worked on it in a month and a half, like you’re just swinging it hoping it works out. That happened to me on number 11. I made bogey on Sunday, a little par 3, you know I hit a shot. It was into the wind and I tried to hit a shot a little too hard, kind of forgot like hey, man, if it’s 185 into the wind, we probably can’t hit a seven. You know I kind of just from lack of, not experience but lack of playing for a month and a half. But at the same time and I’m a guy that I don’t believe in practicing every single day I do believe in, you know, trying to get better every day, but I don’t believe in like I have to swing a golf club every single day to get better. I mean, look at me, I’ve sat on the couch the last Four months and worked on my body and I feel better than I ever have golf lies. But again, I think timing, where you know that bow, you know Levin, came from lack of playing, but the birdie on 12 came from, you know, my head. I’m not pissed off, I’m just like let’s just send dry. It’s kind of a short hole guys lay up on. I said, look, let’s just send driver down there. Who cares, I’ve got a flip wedging, I make birdie and I think it was a little bit of Not playing for a month and a half. But also, you know that tournament being the first of the spring, everything’s kind of fresh because I mean, I’m not gonna lie, you know, look at my schedule. After that, I did nothing For a month and a half. I did absolutely nothing and it was frustrating. There was several rounds where, just like that birdie on or that bogey on, 11, I had a shot like that early in a round and my whole round was over and that was coming. And I’m you know I’m top 30 on the FedEx Cup. Whoa, what am I upset about? Like, if I miss a cut? You know I’m still top 30 on the FedEx Cup. You know I’m not fighting for my card. I that second at Hawaii almost locked up. I’d have to go look back at it, but it almost locked up a spot in Memphis. You know it’s 300 FedEx Cup points. I finished fifth in. Japan in the fall and though you know the fall was still counting in last year. So I’m almost in the playoffs in January and obviously you don’t know that you don’t want to just settle for that, but I do think you know you look at those two months after there were some struggles. So again, I don’t think there’s a secret code to you know, guys tell about sports psychologist and these mental people, whatever. I think I think it’s a little bit different. I think you know you’re gonna have moments that go high and low. I think managing them, managing them. And you know really, you know really turn in those like you know, if you look back at missing a cut by one or two and yeah, you’re pissed off, you know making that cut by one or two. Instead, it’s not like, oh, let’s turn this bogey into winning the golf tournament, let’s just turn this bogey into making a cut, getting 20 FedEx cut points and moving on. But again, I also am a guy that thinks missing cuts helps. I missed like six out of seven cuts last summer Before the us open and finished 12th, you know. So it’s like it’s a weird marriage of like I don’t believe in. You have to be the most positive person in the world on the golf course and if you make a bogey you should smile walking off the green. I’m actually the opposite. When I make a bogey, I want to be a little bit upset, but I want to use it. Like you said in Hawaii, I want to use that to make a birdie on the next hole. I you know a lot of people have said you know, by the time you hit your next shot, be over it Whatever. There’s a lot of things that happens when you’re in contention on a Sunday. You know your your mind’s racing if you’re not careful. And I think it’s just more experience. The more times you’re in those situations, the more you learn from it. You know from a for a regular Amateur that’s playing every day like if they’re like I want to break 80. I actually had a buddy of mine text me. I think he broke 80 for the first time, maybe two weeks ago. Uh, but the week before that he was saying man, I shot 81 today and I tripled the last hole and I said, well, what were you thinking about? and he was like man, I was thinking about breaking 80 on the last hole, 100%, and you know it’s fun to do that because, like in the same way, like I’m over here, like I want to shoot 64, and you know it’s not the same scores, but we’re all trying to do the same thing. And you know, I said why were you thinking about that? And he said, well, I’ve never done it. And I said, yeah, I’ve never won a pga tour event. But you know I was thinking about it coming down the stretch and I do think you know, did it affect me on 18 at Hawaii, when I was thinking about, hey, a birdie can win you a golf term or get you in a playoff. I don’t think it hurt me, I think it just made me realize the moment I was in. And you know I hit a great tee shot, a decent second shot, a pretty good chip, and missed a putt. You know kind of life goes on and it just so happened that that putt was for, you know, the win or for the playoff. You know I made two bogeys on that side. So you can look back again. I think timing of everything is important. You know when you make a bogey, if you make a bogey on 18 versus on 1,. You know everything’s different. So I think handling being able to handle each bogey the same way for me Is important, you know. Or each miss putt, you know the putt on 18, it’s no different than the putt I missed on 17. You know I missed a putt on 17 for birdie made par and I was pretty happy walking off the green. So again, it’s hard in tournament play to you know. Look at every little putt is the same, but at the end of the day they all are the same and they all count. So but mentally, I think you know Staying calm does help. But you look at Tyro Hatten and some other guys that are known to you know kind of express themselves. They’ll tell you this. John Rom, I play with him several times and he’ll tell you. You know he likes to express himself a little bit when he’s angry, but he won’t let it affect him on the next hole. And I think you know nobody really knows what’s going on inside of a player. I know I hear I watched a lot of golf, actually believe it or not, while I was hurt. I watched. 0:23:22 – Jeff Pelizzaroyou know this for me, I don’t watch golf at all. 0:23:24 – Hayden BuckleyUh, I wanted to watch a little bit. You know, I just want to watch the playoff. I want to watch eastlake, just kind of see how the courses were playing and smaller fields and guys got upset and they’re guaranteed to make $10 or $15 million and they’re still upset at making a bogey on the third hole of the tournament. That’s just how we are. We’re competitors and everybody wants to win. Everybody wants to play well. So I do think guys work hard mentally. I work hard mentally in different areas. Some guys like sports psychologists, some people like therapists, some people like me. I like to just talk to my wife sometimes and she does a great job of just calming me down a little bit when I’m upset after a round. That’s the hardest part is forgetting it, especially during the day, getting to the next day and having kind of a clean slate. I feel like I did that pretty well in Hawaii, but again I lost it for those two months after Hawaii. Maybe a little bit of extra pressure, like hey, all of a sudden you’re a top player, you’re in the top 30 on the FedEx, like Eastlake is calling you in six months. But it’s like, how are you thinking about six months from now when it’s January. So I think I got caught up a little bit in that last year. But again I’ll learn from that this year and not let it happen again. 0:24:45 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you look back on last year as a whole, you mentioned you had several missed cuts. You had some really great tournaments, a couple T5s, us Open, obviously the second place in the Sony Overall, and I know we know how the end finished out with the injury and everything. But when you look back at that, where do you say? What do you look at and say are you first of all happy with the way that it went, or are there things where you’re like I could clean this up a little bit? I need to clean this up a little bit. This I’m really happy about? Do you break it down like that and look at it that way, or just kind of yeah, 100%. 0:25:24 – Hayden BuckleyI think it’s probably like any business out there. You look at your end of the year statistics and say this is what we need to improve. My first year on tour was hey, you’re literally 180th in putting and there’s not 180 guys playing tournament. What’s going on? I think a lot of that had something to do with ball striking. I hit it really well, maybe had a lot more 30 footers than most guys. Whatever it may be, a lot of those things matter, but we looked at that last year. We cleaned that up again. We said if I’m ever a top 100 putter, I’m going to be a top 50 player on the tour every year. There’s no doubt. This year, obviously there’s disappointment, but I kept my job. I competed, I had chances to win. I think Hilton Head was one of my better tournaments. I really had a chance to. I think I birdied two or three of the last four holes on Sunday and really had a chance to do something. I had a close look on 18-2, especially in the elevated event that was coming off of a T9. The week before too, I had really great showings. But to me it’s kind of a balance of do I want consistency where I’m top 20 in every week or do I just want to have five top fives? It’s kind of a weird balance where you look at a guy like JT who I think he made almost every cut. He played in and didn’t make playoffs. He probably felt better each week on Saturday than I did because I missed about half my cuts. It’s kind of a weird balance of are you better off playing good two or three weeks out of the year or do you want to play? Obviously you play like Scottie Scheffler in top 12 almost every week. I think that takes care of itself. I would say, looking back, I’m impressed with the way I played. I’m a little disappointed Again. I think my strokes gained approach. My iron play was a little off. My wedge play was a little off. If you look at it I know it’s pretty deep in the hundreds, like maybe 150. Not good statistically speaking, especially with how I drove the ball. There’s no doubt that I’m not the biggest guy out there, I’m not the longest guy, but my strokes gained off the tee has been top 10, I think, two years in a row. 0:27:41 – Jeff PelizzaroI’ve got it Eighth strokes gained off the tee, which I thought was cool to hear. When you were saying that you were driving the ball about as well as you had in Memphis. It’s like that says a lot because you’re consistently up there with the tops. 0:27:57 – Hayden BuckleyRight, that’s what I was worried about was how am I supposed to make this driver swing with, if you talk about your rib, how am I supposed to make this bigger driver swing and really hit it? I was able to and it worked out. The drivers is just freed me up for so many opportunities to play. Well, your approach is not as good as it has been and your puddings improved. I’m almost sitting there waiting again. Going back to all the missed cuts, I drove the ball Napa. Actually I have this thing with Napa where I was first in strokes gained off the tee last year at Napa and missed the cut. I drove the ball better than anybody in the field and I missed the cut by a lot. It can be a lot of things, but bottom line have to improve some wedge play, a little bit of iron play. I’d say my long irons were pretty good, long par-3s. I’m making some birdies on into par-5s and two. I’m not having much trouble, just some of the shorter holes, the easier holes that guys are making birdies on. I’m not. I’m still competing making birdie from 200 yards. It’s just a matter of time, I think, until the wedges clean up a little bit. I’ve already seen improvement too, which is great. The wedges get cleaned up, the short irons get cleaned up. There’s a recipe for a lot of good golf coming, if I can get that handle. 0:29:16 – Jeff PelizzaroHow much are you guys looking at the stats and who helps you with that throughout the season? Are you looking at that and then saying, okay, this is what I need to go work on, or are you just kind of more feeling out what you need to practice and work on week to week in the season? I’m sure off season is a little different. 0:29:33 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, the tour has their database of stats that we can look at. I’ve done some of the decade stuff as well with Scott Fawcett. I think I try not to look a ton. I do let some of my team look at it and diagnose it and say this is what you really need to work on. But I also think that week to week can be so different, different grasses. I could have gotten the bad waves. Maybe I wasn’t feeling as good that week physically. I think it’s not like oh, this week I played terrible, my irons were awful, let’s go make a change. I might have just had a bad week swinging it. It’s not like if I ever have a bad week driving the ball, it’s like, hey, you have about 99% of the weeks Pretty good driving, so just kind of flush it. But I haven’t hired a stats guy officially. There’s a lot of them out there that they look at your stats every day. They come out with you and practice rounds and kind of say this is how you should play the course. But I use Scott Fawcett again with Decade. He maps out courses and kind of tells you how to optimize your off the tee especially. I think that’s one of the reasons why I’m top 10 in strokes getting off the tee is because I know exactly what club I’m hitting and I know he tells me why I should hit it. And usually it’s driver almost every time, especially the way I hit driver. But a lot of times you might say I need to lay up to 160 here because there’s a bunker on the right at 285. But based on his little program that he’s got, he’d say look, you hit driver, you aim it at this tree and you hit it every single day, no matter what, and I’ve noticed that it’s just freed me up and led to a lot more opportunities. Now, if I could just hit it closer to the hole. He can’t really fix that unless I start hitting a little bit better. But I do think everybody’s important. Everybody’s different. Some guys need every little thing detailed. You know, look at like a guy like Matt Fitzpatrick who’s got you know, he’s got his little notebook. I’ve seen it firsthand. He’s writing down notes every shot he hits and it’s like that’s different. You know, that’s something I don’t know if I could ever do that. I don’t know if I’m disciplined enough to do it, but you know, I used to do something similar in practice and I think I’m going to incorporate that in practice now just to kind of make sure what I’m working on is working. But you know, I’m kind of an easygoing, Like I’m just kind of getting out there and feeling it and trusting the people around me to tell me what to do. But you know, now that I’ve had so much downtime I’ve been looking a lot more into my stats and where I can improve. And I think you know I’m even doing a club fitting in two weeks with a guy, scott Felix, in Memphis, tennessee. So he’s just a club fitter that I’m just going to go in and say let’s make sure my arms are working and, you know, maybe adjust some lies and loss. And you know, never been to him before so kind of an unbiased just see where we are and see if we can improve. You know, again I hit the. I said don’t touch driver, don’t worry. I did tell him that. But I said look, let’s you know if we need to just swap out the four and the five iron for a different, you know a different style. You know they make. You know Tileless makes all kind of clubs now. But you know, whatever we have to do, let’s do it and get it settled before the start of this fall season, so then I can have confidence. So I’m looking forward to that. And just you know I recommend everybody do that, I think every, especially any anybody buying clubs. You know we’re lucky to not have to do that. But getting that sitting, I’ve never really had one. Really, to be honest with you, I haven’t. I’ve been out to TPI now two or three times so I guess technically that is a club fitting. But usually when I go I’ve kind of already had my clubs. You know I’ve played the same clubs for five years now. You know the AP2s and now the T100s. They’re all pretty similar but I’ve played the same stuff almost for five years. So you know we’ll get stuff figured out and hopefully by Sanderson we’ll be ready to play. 0:33:40 – Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you’re, you know, through your second year on the tour, what you know. What were some of the differences this year and what are you looking forward to next year, now that you’re not you know you’re not the rookie out there anymore, you’re, you’ve been out there, you know the ropes, you know a lot of the courses. Now what are some of the advantages of now being out there a few times, as opposed to the first year you went out there? 0:34:03 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know I think I don’t have to get out there and play the Monday Pro-Am every week. And you know, a lot of times as a rookie what people don’t understand is you don’t get to play the Wednesday Pro-Am. You know usually it’s limited to. You know it’s all based off FedEx the last year and you know as a rookie you’re down at the bottom. So you know Wednesdays were pretty much just practice days my whole year until you know I had a pretty good start to my rookie year so I got in some Pro-Am’s. But you know Monday and Tuesday are kind of your days to see the golf course physically and play it. And you think about travel. If you’re playing on Sunday you’re flying out Sunday night, maybe Monday morning you’re tired. You know I took several Mondays off last year and had to play 18 holes on Tuesday because I wasn’t in the Pro-Am and or two years ago, my rookie year. So even last year I saw you know I’m in the Pro-Am almost every week. You know Mondays I’m taking off a lot more. Maybe I’ll go hit a few putts or I’ll go to the gym. You know Tuesday’s kind of my day to play nine holes. That was kind of my rule which you know I thought I was doing everything I could not to get hurt. You know, unfortunately I still did. But you know I said I’m never playing more than nine holes in a day and I’m still keeping that this year. I’m not going to play more than nine. You know, maybe a rare circumstance there’s a new tournament this year in Mexico. I think we’re going to Cabo instead of MyCova. You know I might have to play 18 holes if there’s bad weather. You know whatever it may be, but nine holes a day take a lot more Mondays off. You know Pro-Am’s on Wednesday. You know most of the courses now. I think I even saw that last year. I’ve seen some of these courses once. You know I remember the pin locations. I remember places that I hit it. You know I’ll have even more of that this year. You know you can imagine Sanderson Farms. I’ve played the course a million times now but I have a lot of memories from the tournament as well, where I don’t have to go out there Monday, tuesday and Wednesday and play nine or 18 holes. I can go practice, I can relax, I can go to the gym, really take care of my body a lot more now and, you know, play a little less golf. But I think something I’m looking forward to would be you know, really I feel like I’ve really kind of put my mark in the tour now, where I feel comfortable. You know you’re rookie here, you’re not sure what’s going on. You tell yourself I belong out here, but you got to prove it. It doesn’t matter if you’re an all-American college or you’re number one in the world in college, you’re amateur. I don’t care if you won this tournament. You got to go out there and prove it, and most of the top guys do, but some don’t. And so the first year’s tough. That second year you’re kind of going all right. I got to have a better year than last year because I was a rookie last year. You know you got to do better and I saw that. And so now, on my third year, I really feel like, well, I guess the end of my second year into the third year. I really feel like it’s time to really submit myself. As you know, this is my job. I’m one of the best ball strikers out here. I’m going to have that confidence forever and it’s time to go compete in tournaments and not just be. You know I get funny tweets every once in a while. That’s like, or whatever you call them now post. 0:37:24 – Jeff PelizzaroX, I don’t know what they call it. 0:37:25 – Hayden BuckleyBut I’ll get some stuff now where it’s like I don’t even know who you are, like I’m tired of watching you on TV and you know funny stuff Like that doesn’t bother me at all, but you know it’s time to kind of go out there and really compete more. I think you know, when I show up each week, I know now that I’m pretty much one good swing away from having a chance to win a golf tournament. And you know, those first two years, even last year, there was tough moments and I think everybody goes through it. But you know I think we’re really turned to page. You know, after this injury, I think more focus is on the body getting stronger, getting back to, you know, 18STRONG, and I really think I’m going to go, I’m going to go to the next level physically with my body. I know that. I know that kind of the same feeling I had out of college and you know I think it’s going to result in a lot of good golf. 0:38:23 – Jeff PelizzaroI want to take just a second to thank our new partner, which I’m really excited to announce is First Form. First Form is a company that is here in St Louis, based in St Louis. It’sa nutritional company that is doing incredible things in the world of nutrition, and one of the reasons that we decided to partner with First Form is obviously we’re very impressed with their dedication to their products and the quality of their products. It really is a dedication to them and them helping their customers get real results Aside from just the products. We got a chance to go and actually visit the facility again here in St Louis and really walk the halls of the corporate offices, but we got to see the manufacturing plan or the warehouse, and it is a place where they’re packaging supplements and shipping them out. It’s a culture, it’s a community and you can see that amongst the employees. You can see that their culture and their core values that are not just pieces of art on their wall. They’re actually letting them there and they’re helping to expand those into the community and really that’s why we partner with First Form. Obviously, their products are incredible. Otherwise we wouldn’t suggest them either. We use them on a regular basis. So you’re going to be hearing a lot more about their products and what they can do for your fitness, what they can do for your golf game. The protein powders, the multivitamins, the protein sticks, the hydration packets all of those products we’re going to highlight in future episodes. But we just wanted to really celebrate our new partnership with First Form. You can go to their website, firstformcom forward slash 18STRONG, and we’re going to be doing a giveaway every single month with anybody that buys through that link. So go to firstformcom that’s P-H-O-R-M dot com forward slash 18STRONG. That’ll take you directly to their website and you can check their whole suite of products, including some of their fitness apparel and anything that’s purchased over there. You’re going to be enrolled into our list for our giveaway. So you had you know, speaking of going from rookie year to your second year and starting to even have people kind of recognize you a lot more, getting some funny tweets and stuff like that. You had a pretty special moment this year that really got the name Hayden Buckley out there. I’ve actually got a little prop here in the office. I don’t know if you can see that. 0:40:45 – Hayden BuckleyOh, I did that. It’s a little. 0:40:47 – Jeff PelizzaroThe whole in one on the Island Green at TPC Sawgrass. Tell me about that whole moment, tell me how crazy that was. Our buddy TJ was there to actually see it in person. I mean it was it was nuts and you were all over the news, you were on ESPN, you were everywhere that week. So tell me about that week, but specifically that moment. 0:41:13 – Hayden BuckleyIt’s funny. I actually had a friend of mine send me a picture of it on the TV at a bar last night. I guess it just popped up randomly as a highlight. You know it was. It was an early round. You know, I think I was third off, maybe on the back nine to start, which I mean the back nine out there is pretty brutal. It’s not really where you want to start in the morning. But it was calm. It was kind of cloudy, you know. I think it must have been somewhat cold if I was wearing a jacket. But you know I had a decent start, I was playing solid and I get up to 17. I think I may be three putted. I feel like I could have three putted for par on 16 or made par and I wasn’t very happy. Well, again, you know, not super happy walking off that 16 pole because that’s kind of a easier birdie on that side. And uh, you know, obviously that tournament’s huge. You want to play well and I walk up to 17. It’s a little front right pin. I want to say I watched I can’t remember who hit before me, but I watched two different shots and I said you know what? I think I need to just hold this ball. Maybe the wind was off the right and I just need to hold this little pitch and wedge. I think it was 132 to the hole. I need to hold this pitch and wedge just right at the middle of the green. I don’t even care where it goes, just give me on the green, give me a putt. You know I hit it in. When I first hit it I thought I hit it a little hard. You know, a pitch and wedge is usually 140. So you don’t really want to go on the back of that green and have that tough putt down the hill. And you know I watched it land and I thought, you know, maybe it’ll kind of trickle back down and it was softer. I can’t remember if it rained one day. It rained, but I think it was softer out there. So it kind of spun back a little bit. And I’m watching it the guy you can watch the video. The guys are kind of walking. You know most guys are walking to the, to the green, and I’m kind of peeking between them and you know it’s looking pretty good and it disappeared and I honestly didn’t know if it went in or not. It was kind of hard to tell, but I just assumed it did and I went nuts. You know, I really kind of forgot about everything that was. I don’t really care what’s proper in golf. You know, it’s like you make a hole in one on 17,. You should jump in the lake. I thought about it. Maybe it feel it was warmer. But you know, I really thought, man, this is like this, is it? This is like a dream and I think it’s payback for if you pull up. I had a tweet somewhere at Phoenix that year on. You know, 16 is pretty chaotic at Phoenix. I hit one about two feet and missed it and I’ve never felt so much pain. I actually had a longer putt coming back and I just went over and tapped it in. Luckily it went in for par. But maybe it’s a little payback from you know, or a little redemption from that kind of embarrassing two-footer I missed. But no, it was pretty incredible and I think the best part about it was I got it up on 18, hit it right down the middle. You know, I couldn’t feel my arms, I was still going nuts. There was only about 50 people there. It was kind of funny. I got a funny story about that. But I get up on 18 and hit it down the middle, hit it to like 20 feet, make the putt for birdie and I’m thinking, wow, that’s got to be 300 through 17 and 18. It’s got to be maybe a record and I think it was probably tied, you know, probably close to a record whatever. And then I make the turn to one. I hit it to five feet and make birdie and I’m like man, I’m about to win this tournament and we won’t talk about what it. We won’t talk about what happened after. And honestly, people you know a lot of people ask me, you know, did you get too excited or what? And I said no, you know, I made two birdies after. You know, I had about a 10 footer on number two for birdie. I missed, and then the rest of the course just kind of beat me up. I hit a couple of good shots. They got in some bad places, made some bogies and then, sure enough, I’m there on Friday and I still shot, you know, even par one under. I can’t remember what I shot on Thursday, but all of a sudden I’m just playing a new round on Friday and it’s like there’s a missed cut, you know. And that’s again going back to some of the tough rounds I had, and but that moment again you mean my wife actually joked about it we said you know what, I guess we’ll take a one on 17 with a missed cut over, you know, maybe making the cut and finishing 40th, you know we’ll just, we’ll take. I didn’t have my game, wasn’t there to compete that week. Obviously it looked like I was going to win. But you know the way I played the rest of the way. I just didn’t have it that week and it’s part of it. But a funny story is I was in dining on Thursday afternoon and you know this is nine o’clock in the morning when I played. So there was only probably 50 people. You’ve seen the video. There’s not that many people. They were all kind of behind the tee box, nobody was on the hill, nobody was in the grandstands. Yet John Rom comes up to me where he’d been lunch. He sits down and he goes hey, man, nice, one on 17. I said Thanks, man. You know he’s been really, really nice to me over the last two years. And he looks at me and he says he says you know, I was on the front line somewhere and when I heard it, you know I thought somebody just made birdie. It wasn’t very loud. I just said Thanks, appreciate it. But I said yeah, it’s probably because there was 50 people on there. You know, it’s just. I mean, you know, our buddy, tj, my wife, a couple of our friends were there. I mean, besides that there wasn’t a lot of people there and it was kind of to me it felt loud. I couldn’t hear anything because I was just blacked out. But he kind of laughed about it. He said yeah, it wasn’t as loud as I thought it would be for a whole in one. 0:46:35 – Jeff PelizzaroI said Thanks, john, appreciate it. 0:46:37 – Hayden BuckleyBut that was no. He took a little jab at me but you know it’s funny. I did an interview after the round and they brought up my scorecard and did the thing and I said, yeah, let’s just ignore this. Back nine here and you know, like the five over on the back let’s ignore that, but the one was nice. So you know, I’ll remember it forever. It was. It was, I think when I show back up there next year I’m looking for another one. You know I’m looking because that feeling was probably the best I felt all year. Better than Sony, better than the fifth that Hilton had, better than Japan. I mean, it was the best feeling I’ve had all year. It was incredible. 0:47:14 – Jeff PelizzaroI can’t imagine. I remember watching it over and over and over again on all the replays and just thinking like I mean as a young kid, a golfer, like there’s not many things that are more iconic than that green to be able to go out and get a whole in one on that. And people go. You know just the world kind of. I mean literally went crazy viral everywhere. So and we’re going to see it for the rest of time. Right Like that, that highlight will be will be there all the time. Funny story. I was there on Sunday with TJ and we were sitting in the grandstand and we got to see I think it was maybe Smalley they got a hole in one on Sunday. 0:47:52 – Hayden BuckleySmalley, I think he did yeah. 0:47:54 – Jeff PelizzaroSo first of all, tj saw two hole in ones, you know, with his eyes on that hole that weekend, which was nuts. But when Smalley hit his, it bounced and just hopped in the cup and it was like quiet because nobody we were like where’d that go? Like couldn’t tell if it went in the water. And then it was like a slow clap that you know. I think that actually went in the hole. But as that was happening, so that Sunday you know the grandstands are full now and I remember sitting there thinking about you, thinking like hitting a shot in front of all of these people, like just thinking about how nervous I would be. I got to play at the next day and there was nobody watching and I dunked mine in the water, but still like nervous you know like and it’s like I can’t imagine what’s it been like for you now that you’ve been on these big stages? You’ve been able to play, like at Phoenix 16th hole, you know some of these big, bigger tournaments, the US Open, and you’ve had some crowds around you. Now you’ve played in some, some pairings where you’ve got people following. Does that affect you at all? Are you able to kind of zone out and just do your thing? 0:48:55 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, it’s funny, I think actually the smaller crowds are almost worse. You know, I think you know I had, you know I probably had 30 or 40 people come out at Memphis for the playoff event and it’s almost like you can see everybody that’s there, especially when you know them. You know it’s almost feeling I’m thinking back to Cornfury. You got like three or four people out there, sometimes literally sometimes there’s just my wife out there and it’s like I almost feel worse when I’m by myself playing and there’s no one out there than I do. You know, walking up to, I’ll never forget Phoenix. Two years ago, my rookie year, I was the last man in the field at you know Waste Management and I get paired with Ricky and John Rom because you know Web Simpson pulled out or something and it was you just take their play. You know when the T-Towns come out Tuesday, if anybody pulls out, you’re taking their place, if you’re the first alternate. So I show up on that T-Box and I mean you can’t see the, you can’t see grass going, you can only see the fairway going down the whole first hole and you know, as a rookie, I’m sitting there going. This is going to be a great experience, obviously, and you know I was nervous for the first few holes, but you get settled into it and then you have more experiences like that. The US Open on Saturday I’m in the second to last group with John Rom again, and you know, again I can’t see any grass anywhere. I’ll never forget walking up 18 and like pitch black, dark we teed off at like four o’clock in the afternoon for some reason and walking up that tee in Boston or that green and you can’t see anything. I couldn’t find my wife I couldn’t find. You know, you couldn’t see anything. It’s just almost like a blur, and I think that’s a good thing for me now, as I see more of a blur than I do. Wow, this is such a big crowd. To me it’s like man, it’s kind of like a I hate to say a backboard, but it’s almost like there’s just a backboard around you. It almost frames it for you a little bit better. You know, I’ve always said grandstands people almost benefit us more as pros than you know. Next week I go to Tupelo, my hometown, and go play some golf and it’s a little bit harder to frame some of your shots because you’re not aiming at grandstands or you’re not. You know I had a shot of Memphis that actually hit a guy. You know I was in the trees right on 17 and I was trying to snap, hook one around the trees and kind of bring it into the green and caught a flyer and you know, out of rough balls don’t turn and hit a guy in the shin and kicked it in the fringe. I mean 30 yards left onto the fringe and I two putted for par and I’m sitting there going. You know, if this was a normal day, that ball is hitting the cart path, it’s bouncing probably out of bounds into a house and so there’s a lot of advantages, I think, to play and turn them into golf and having these crowds and I think maybe that’s why I enjoy it so much. I think you know you’re still going to feel nerves. I mean there’s no doubt you know Sanderson Farms. I don’t think there will be 100,000 people on the first tee, but you know you get a big crowd, especially for Mississippi guys and you know a lot of it. When they’re rooting for you really helps. You know a lot of the times they’re, you know probably there for you know John or somebody else, and that’s fine too. But I think you get a lot of support. You know you get a lot of guys that. You know I had a kid. Actually the other day me and my wife were vacationing in Amelia Island, florida, a little north of Jacksonville, played golf, got done. One of the bad guys said hey, man, just wanted to say like I was there on 17 at Sawgrass. I was like I just walked up, we weren’t even looking, we don’t know who you are. Larry said that to my face. He said we didn’t know who you were, but we walked up to 17,. You made it and it was the best experience of my life and I was like hey, thanks, man, I appreciate it. But again, you know it’s. There’s a lot of people out there that really care about golf. I saw that a lot in Japan. You should. The crowds in Japan were ridiculous. I mean it was. They didn’t care who you were, they were lined up on every fairway and they clapped for bogies. You know it’s like you make a bogey, they’re clapping for you. So I’ve had a lot of good experiences with big crowds, you know, with people. You know you get heckled a lot too right, you’re going to get some, some people that are probably gambling on you that week and if you’re not playing well, they’re not happy, and I’ve had plenty of that. But I do think seeing these bigger crowds it’s you’re not motivation to want to play good, but it’s one of those. Like you know, we are entertainers. In a sense we have a product to put out, but it’s. It’s pretty fun here in Roars when you make putts and you get Roars and you know it’s a different feeling than you get when you’re coming up in college and cornfairy and amateur golf where there’s not really anybody watching you. So it’s, you know, a part of the big stage. I think it’s every sport right, high school football, you got, you know, 2000 people in the stands, and then you get to college it’s 50, and then you get in the pros even more, everything kind of graduates into bigger crowds and bigger pressure. And I just think from my experience now I kind of thrive off that a little bit more, where you know maybe some tournaments that are smaller I’m not getting, you know, I have to watch myself to not, you know, fall into kind of that hole of like I’m not excited to play this tournament because there’s not 20,000 people out here, like who cares, you know, like even like Sawgrass on 17,. Like there’s 40 people out here but let’s make a hole in one. You know who cares, so that I think it’s balancing that and really, you know using the crowds as an advantage instead of thinking I hope I don’t mess up. You know, I think a rookie year. I’m sitting there going. There’s so many people watching me, I hope I don’t mess up the bottom line. There’s TV cameras watching you and there’s millions of people watching. So you know, at the end of the day, everybody’s going to see what you do. So you just got to own what you do. And you know I learned that quick at Phoenix when I missed a two footer. I went viral for missing a two foot putt and you should read the comment. You can still look at the tweet and read the comments. I got some stuff for it, but you know I shot I think I shot a buggy free 69 on Saturday in Phoenix. So, like I don’t care, I mean I played a great round of golf, I just missed a putt at the wrong time. So, yeah, I’ve enjoyed the experience of getting to. You know, play in front of crowds and most of the time it’s very positive and enjoyable experience. 0:55:10 – Jeff PelizzaroSo now that you’re, I think you finished up at number 60 on the FedEx Cup. So moving into next year’s season you mentioned, obviously some things have changed with the schedule. What impact does that have on you where you’re sitting? And then also, kind of, what are some of your expectations that you’re putting on yourself for next year? 0:55:30 – Hayden BuckleyYeah, you know, I think if you look at the new, the fall series they’re calling it now like the top 50 guys are kind of, you know, knocked out of the FedEx Cup. They’re locked into the signature events next year and you know that was the goal, obviously and didn’t work out. But now we have something, really all that. You know I’ve got my card for next year. Making it to playoffs guarantees that I’m in the players championship, got my full card. You know every event that’s not a signature event. So I’ve got a full schedule. It’s great. But I do have, you know, the top 10. Top 10 on the FedEx at the end of this fall, which you know I’m number 10, you would call it being number 60. That 50 through 60, those guys are guaranteed to play. I believe it’s Pebble Beach and Tigers event at Riviera, I think, those two signature events. So that’s kind of what you’re playing for. Otherwise your only way getting into that is playing well, like the three weeks before. So they kind of made it to where they call it like the, the swing five, I think they call it. You know where you play, maybe Sony open, american Express and what’s the other one, torrey Pines, and then the top five guys from those three events qualify into, just from those three. It doesn’t matter where you’re on the FedEx, the top three guys from those five events that aren’t in Pebble get in Pebble. So that’s kind of how they’re, you know they’re, they’re playing in the schedule to be like the hottest players at the time. Get these signature events. You know the top 50 guys have nothing to worry about. So at least, if anything, this fall I’m playing for. You know, obviously I’m just playing to gain confidence, to play well. I’ve been hurt for three months, kind of get back into flow, but also playing for that top 10. Because I’d like to. You know pebble beaches of elevated event this year and you know Riviera is Riviera, I love Riviera so much. Play to USM there, want to get back there, and also an elevated event. So I’m playing for those two events pretty much this fall. You know, obviously whatever happens I want to be in those. If not, then I’ll start my season at the Sony, you know, and again just start back from zero and and hopefully have another experience like Sony Last year, maybe a little better. But you know, just, I’m going to play a lot, I’m going to play as much as I can, obviously, with, you know, kind of built in off weeks now with these elevated events. If you’re not in them, you’re going to take those weeks off. So kind of feels like a rookie year again where I’m not getting in currently. You know, we’ll, we’ll, obviously we can answer this again in the fall, but I’m currently not getting in. There’s not guaranteed that I’m in the elevated events, all of them. And so you know I’m going to approach it kind of like rookie year. I’m going to play when I can, take advantage when I can and you know, wherever it takes me. I’ll be back in Memphis next year and and have a have a better chance of getting to Eastlake than I did this year. 0:58:33 – Jeff PelizzaroWell we’re. We’re expecting it on on our end for sure. You know the 18STRONG crew is pulling for Buck and we’re looking forward to seeing some more fireworks this year from your game. That’s definite. I want to finish up just a couple of little fun questions for you, a little different than the ones we normally do, because we’ve asked you those on previous podcasts. But is there any any kind of a book or anything that you’ve been reading lately, anything golf related, non golf related, that you would recommend to the 18STRONG audience? 0:59:02 – Hayden BuckleyOh gosh. 0:59:02 – Jeff PelizzaroI haven’t read a book in a while. 0:59:04 – Hayden BuckleyJeff, I need to. I really, I actually really need to meet my wife we’re talking about the other day, what’s that? There is one book that I do I will. From a golf perspective, every shot counts. Now I read that in college. I know I was recommended to read it. I think I need to reread it. It’s very it’s. It’s a pretty influential book, just from a golf world. It’s nothing else, but it’s going to teach you some things about you know golf statistics and all that stuff. So I I love that book. I can’t remember the author, but great, great book. 0:59:34 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat are you and your bride watching these days? On Netflix or one of the other streaming services? 0:59:40 – Hayden BuckleyWe’re, we’re big. You know we’ve been watching Bravo, the channel Bravo, so Below Deck, below Deck is one of our favorites. It’s kind of a little reality. It’s like chartering yachts, you know. It’s like their reality show and it’s. We’ve been hooked on that pretty hard. And you know I’ve watched Lincoln Lawyer was probably. I just came out with a new season. That was one of my favorite. I watched the first season. It just came out with season two, I believe. So I finished that in about a day and a half. My wife was gone for the weekend two weeks ago and I just sat on the couch watch football and Lincoln Lawyer, so really, enjoyable time. 1:00:18 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s is there? A course like a bucket list course that you have on your radar, that you want to go play, that you haven’t been able to play yet? 1:00:27 – Hayden BuckleyYou know somebody mentioned to me there, dave Pine Valley. That’s always been one that you know, I think. I know I’ve heard it so much about it, I’ve seen pictures, and you know Cyprus is another one that you know. Actually my putting coach said he was playing it next week or in a few weeks. He said he’s going out there to do a little five course thing with a buddy of his and so I’m pretty jealous of that. But those two are those two are up there. 1:00:56 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat is, or has there been, a kind of significant purchase that you’ve made? You know you’ve had a chance to make a few bucks. Now what has Hayden Buckley kind of spent maybe a little more on than he would have in the past? 1:01:09 – Hayden BuckleyOh gosh, let’s, let’s go with, let’s go with a home. 1:01:13 – Jeff PelizzaroHow about that? 1:01:14 – Hayden BuckleyA house. Well, I won’t disclose where it is, but there, yeah, a house purchase is definitely a big, a lot bigger of a purchase than I ever thought it would be. There’s a lot more to it. You know, I’ve enjoyed that process, that home buying process. You live in a condo or an apartment your whole life, you know, since college. Really, it’s pretty fun to finally, you know, get close to moving into the home. But the whole process of buying one and everything that comes after is it’s been fun, but it’s there’s a lot of work behind the scenes. But you know, again, I’ve been hurt for a few months. I’ve been able to, I’ve been able to do a lot of work on that. 1:01:52 – Jeff PelizzaroWhat’s the worst shot you hit last year? 1:01:55 – Hayden BuckleyNo, gosh. I mean there’s no doubt it was the two footer on at Phoenix number 16. It’s like it’s based on the comments. I think everybody in the world could have made it. So you know little, do they know? I couldn’t feel my arms when I got up there. I was so excited. You know I was like this is I buried it the day before too, but that was awful. 1:02:15 – Jeff PelizzaroThen you got your redemption on 17 at Sawgrass, so it’s all good. 1:02:19 – Hayden BuckleyThat’s right. 1:02:19 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s right. All right, brother. Well, I appreciate you coming on. Look forward to this upcoming season. I know it’s going to be a big one. You know the crews behind you and we’re going to see you at East Lake this next year. Thanks for coming on, brother. 1:02:32 – Hayden BuckleyI appreciate you having me. I look forward to coming back on soon. Sounds good. 1:02:39 – Jeff PelizzaroThanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG Podcast with Hayden Buckley. If you want any more information or any of the links from this episode, just go to 18strongcom. This is episode number 353 and you can find all the information on Hayden over there. Don’t forget to check out Link Soul and first form, our partners for this episode. Train hard, practice smart and play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Alex Bennett; Fitness Specialist PGA Tour Performance Center (TPC Sawgrass)Host: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 351Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast Summary In this compelling discussion, we’re joined by Alex Bennett, a renowned fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center. Alex shares his journey from playing professional golf to becoming a fitness specialist, discussing the importance of golf-specific training. He also gives us a peek into his experiences working with tour players like Billy Horschel and Sam Ryder, helping them maximize their physical potential on the golf course. You’ll be captivated by Alex’s insights on golf and fitness, from his unique assessments for mobility, strength, power, and endurance, to his creative use of technology and equipment to improve golf swings. Moving forward, we shift our focus to the extensive facilities at the PGA Tour Performance Center and the essential role they play in enhancing players’ performance. Alex offers a detailed view of his day-to-day interaction with the tour players and other fitness trainers. From discussions about how he’s worked with retired golfers and juniors to his approach towards individual goal setting and conditioning, it’s an enriching conversation that will leave you with a better understanding of golf fitness. Wrapping up, we chat about the application of biomechanics in golf and the importance of creating speed and power efficiently. Alex shares how he uses cues and activations to connect players’ learning to their golf swings, helping them stay injury-free and perform at their highest level. He also reveals his book recommendations and recounts his memorable experiences at TPC Sawgrass. Listen in for a wealth of knowledge and expertise from a top PGA Tour fitness specialist. Whether you’re a tour player, an avid golfer, or just a fitness enthusiast, this is an episode you won’t want to miss! Main Topics (0:00:03) – Golf and Fitness With PGA SpecialistAlex Bennett shares assessments and recommendations for golfers to improve mobility, strength, power, fitness, and endurance. (0:07:57) – PGA Tour Fitness and FacilitiesAlex Bennett discusses the PGA Tour Performance Center, its facilities, staff, and how he works with tour players, retired golfers, and juniors. (0:12:14) – Improving Golf Performance and Preventing InjuriesAlex Bennett explains the importance of assessment, corrective-based warm-up routine, consistency, and professional-quality website. (0:16:40) – Golf Conditioning and Individual Goal SettingAlex works with golfers to improve conditioning, emphasizing injury prevention and shorter rest times with specific goals. (0:25:37) – Fitness and Golf Performance ConversationAlex Bennett works with golfers, emphasizing acclimation and avoiding running and powerlifting to help them stay healthy and perform at their best. (0:29:18) – Improve Golf Swing With TechnologyAlex Bennett helps tour players improve mechanics, activate muscles, and feel changes in their golf swing. (0:35:21) – Biomechanics and Power in BaseballAlex shares experience using Kaiser functional trainer to improve swing sequencing, create speed and power efficiently, and cue players with alignment rod. (0:44:49) – Biomechanics and Balance in Golf ImpactAlex Bennett shares insights on tour player training, mobility, stretching, fast twitch speed, and the Kaiser functional trainer for golf swing sequencing. (0:48:52) – Golf, Books, and Social Media RecommendationsAlex Bennett shares his love for rap music, recommends books, reveals his dream foursome, and recounts his experiences at TPC Sawgrass. Connect with Alex Instagram: @abfitnessandgolf Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to LivPur.com (or click the logo above) and use the code “18STRONG“. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew) Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Transcript generated by Podium.page 0:00:03 – Jeff PelizzaroThe 18STRONG Podcast, episode Number 351, with Alex Bennett, fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we’re here to help you build up your strength. We’re here to help you build a stronger game. This week we’ve got Alex Bennett, the fitness specialist at the PGA Tour Performance Center, down at TPC Sawgrass and this week we’re talking with him about everything under the sun when it comes to golf and fitness, specifically working with his tour players, what he’s doing with them to make them as strong as possible, get them as fit and conditioned as well as possible to get out on the golf course. He’s working with Billy Horschul, sam Ryder and a lot of other tour players that play out of TPC Sawgrass, but he also works with a lot of the general public, either golfers that are coming down for the week or golfers that work in the area and play golf there. So he has a lot of experience with every level of golfer, from juniors to collegiate players to professionals. So we discuss how does he utilize an assessment? What’s his recommendations for people when they come in and they’re struggling with either their mobility or their strength or their power or their fitness or just their general endurance out on the golf course. So you’re really going to enjoy this episode with Alex Bennett. We’re going to get into our conversation right after this. Our partners over at Linksoul have been providing us with the best apparel for both on the course and off the course, from polos to t-shirts like the one I have on right now. Everything that they have is meant to be worn from the golf course to wherever you’re going next, so it’s very casual whether that be to the beach. There’s all different options over there. So go to 18strong.com/linksoul. You’ll get 20% off of anything in your cart over on Linksoul’s website. So again, 18strong.com/linksoul for our favorite brand of apparel for anything on the golf course and off. Now let’s get to this week’s interview. So how long have you been down at TPC? 0:02:20 – Alex BennettThis is year seven actually. 0:02:23 – Jeff PelizzaroReally yeah. How did that whole thing come about? 0:02:28 – Alex BennettSo I was actually so I played in college and then I was playing professionally and I had a bunch of injuries and I kind of fell in love with the whole physical side of it and the whole corrective exercise science behind it. I realized that I was doing a lot of stuff to look good at the beach and not play good golf. So once I got more into the physical therapy side, I fell in love with it. I realized you really need to train for your specific sport and there’s a big difference between training to just look good and training for your sport. So I ended up breaking my wrist. I was on a cast and I did the National Academy of Sports Medicine, I did Athletic and Fitness Association of America, I did TPI. I basically did all the training I could possibly do. While I was in the cast and just killing time, I was working at a place called Fitness by Frank Jeff. Frank was the head of that gym. He’s VJ Singh’s guy. He kind of hired me to do a lot of the golf training and I was there for a little while and then I just got lucky. This place was under construction, it was opening and Todd Anderson knew me a little bit from my playing days. I used to work with Jared Zach on my swing and he’s working at Sea Island. We had actually me and Todd had never met and Todd Anderson was the director of instruction here, appointed the director of instruction here. So I came here, got lucky, got an interview and me and him hit it off and then it was kind of funny, the interview process. I thought the first interview went really well and he was like I’ll be in touch. I didn’t hear anything for a few months and I was like, well, whatever, it didn’t go my way. I was kind of new in the business. I was young, so they’re probably looking for someone with more experience. He called me on a Tuesday. I’ll never forget. He called me on a Tuesday out of nowhere and I was like, oh man, I got to take this call. Hopefully he’s calling me on purpose and it’s not a but down. But he was like hey man, can you meet me at Fresh Market? There’s a grocery store here right outside of TBC. Can you meet me at Fresh Market? We’re going to hop in my truck and we’re going to go to a client’s house. I want you to do an assessment on them and kind of tell us everything you would do differently or whatever you see, tell us. So I get in the car and we’re driving and he goes yeah, I’m taking you to Billy Horshaw’s house. It was the week of the Masters. He didn’t qualify for the Masters. He had kind of had a tough year and I was like man, all right, billy Horshaw, it’s pretty big name, so we’re going there. He was not the most welcoming guy and I think they were kind of testing me. They were seeing if I was just going to kind of be a yes man or if I was going to tell them what I thought he could get better at. And I was like the first 10 minutes I’m like I’m not going to get this job. This is not going great. Billy’s barely even looked at me. This is tough. So I was like all right, well, if I’m going to go out, I’m just going to tell him everything I think he could fix or that’s wrong with his body. We did an assessment. I pointed out what I would change, what I would do, and they ended up liking it a lot and Todd offered me the job in Billy’s driveway as we were leaving. So I was pretty thrilled. It was kind of funny too. I had just gotten engaged and my mom I had like six missed phone calls because I ended up being over there for almost three and a half hours and they were just like, did it, how did it go? We were hurting them, where are you? So it was pretty funny, but it was great and I’m like very thankful obviously to Todd and Billy for giving me an opportunity when I was I think I was 25, 26 when I got the job, so I was definitely definitely very thankful. 0:06:13 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd you’re still I mean, I still see you working with Billy on a regular basis, right? 0:06:17 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean Billy, have worked together pretty much ever since after I got this job. I think he finished out that year and then in the off season I started working with him and I’ve worked with him ever since. Yeah, wow. 0:06:30 – Jeff PelizzaroSo your pros are actually down right in your area. Are they members at TPC, like? Does Billy play there on a regular basis and do the other guys that I see you working with? 0:06:40 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean there’s there’s a lot of guys that are members here that play out of here. I don’t work with all of them. I’ve got I think I’ve got eight guys this year on tour and they all pretty much live out of here. Yeah. 0:06:55 – Jeff PelizzaroOkay, Gotcha. So the performance center. Describe it to people a little bit. I had a chance to go there the week of the players championship and unfortunately our paths didn’t cross. I knew you were working like some crazy hours and just didn’t. 0:07:07 – Alex BennettYeah, I was running around that week. That week’s always busy, for sure. 0:07:10 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I mean, are you there like just sun up to sun down and then get out as quick as you can to get some shut eye? 0:07:16 – Alex BennettPlayers is tough. Yeah, I mean there’s a year I mean the year we had all the restarts when we had a ton of rain and it was cold. I think it was two years ago. I mean I don’t even remember that week. It was insane. I mean I was in here warming up guys at four in the morning and then hanging around because it was like we’d get a weather delay and then they’d want to warm up again at two o’clock for their you know, their restart. I mean that was a. That was a crazy week. This year was a little less crazy, but it was still. I mean, it’s always nuts Guys are wanting to warm up super early in the morning and then I’m kind of just hanging around and I had, I think I had six guys in the tournament this year, so it was definitely a busy one just kind of hanging around. I’ve got a whole new appreciation for the guys that travel nonstop on tour with their guys. I’m actually going to start traveling a little more next year, nice. So I know it’s, it’s definitely exhausting, but it’s it’s. I think it’s worth it just to get your you know, show your face out there on tour and kind of get some more eyeballs on you. 0:08:15 – Jeff PelizzaroI think when, when the players is going on, are the other guys that you don’t work with? Are they utilizing the performance center as well? Are they going to the fitness trailer, or how does that work? 0:08:26 – Alex BennettYeah, so we did a bit of both. Yeah, I mean guys were using the fitness trailer but guys were also coming over to the performance center. I mean we had a lot of players. You know, I’ve gotten to know a lot of trainers out there and now they’ll just shoot me a text like hey, can we come use the performance center, can we? You know trailers and little packed or hotel gyms, not as good as we thought. Whatever it may be, I’m always open to letting guys come over and use it. The PGA tour has been nice enough to let me keep it the last four or five years. When I first started here, they’d move all the gym equipment out and it would actually be like a headquarters for all the rules official. So it was insane. I mean we’ve had like doors broken just from people moving equipment in and out of the gym. The door still one of our doors to the gym still doesn’t work properly and everybody’s always like man, what’s that I’m like? Well, I was like five years ago the players and we had been bent to hinge and we haven’t fixed it still. But I mean now I’ve got so much equipment in there and it just became. It’s like you got this many guys playing in the tournament and I’ve got this many guys coming to the facility just to use the gym. I think you know the tour was like why don’t we just let them keep in? We’ll have that much extra space for players I mean, it is deep players. So let’s make it as good as possible for the players actually playing the tournament and give them as many options as possible. 0:09:39 – Jeff PelizzaroHow big is the place and what else is in there? Do you guys have hitting bays? Unfortunately I didn’t get a chance to go and really like so the performance center itself is pretty big. 0:09:46 – Alex BennettWe’ve got four hitting bays. I’m sitting right now, we’re sitting in our like break room kind of area. We’ve got four hitting bays. We’ve got the gym upstairs, we’ve got a putting lab upstairs, we’ve got a couple of offices upstairs, we’ve got a bunch of offices on the bottom floor, and then we just re-turfed our entire tee with a special type of Bermuda that they’re using. They used it in the Super Bowl and it’s supposed to like come back in half the time as normal Bermuda, because we’re we’re having a problem where we were running out of turf on our tee just because we were so busy, but this summer, luckily, like it’s been a little lighter. So our tee looks pretty good right now, but it’s. It’s a pretty big place. We’ve got a nice chipping green, nice putting green. We’ve got putting instructors, you know. We’ve got a few swing instructors. We’ve got Todd Anderson, obviously. So it’s it’s definitely a good place to work at if you’re looking to get better at golf. 0:10:39 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, Are you the the only fitness person in there? Are you the director of fitness? And? 0:10:44 – Alex BennettYeah, I’m the only fitness here, I’m the finals fitness specialist. The tours got some some interesting rules about what it takes to be a director. You kind of have to have two employees working underneath you. The problem with our space I don’t know if you got to see the gym, but I think it’s about 800 square feet, so it’s not like massive and it actually was originally two hitting bays that we’re going to be simulators, so it’s not the rooms, kind of like two rooms put together basically. So it’s not got the best like flow to it. So it gets crowded in there quick and sometimes, like I’ll have, especially when the cornferries off and the PGA tours off, I mean I’ll have three to four guys in there at a time and it’s it’s definitely gets crowded. So if we had another trainer and they were just we, it would be we’d really have to work on our scheduling right now. Like the tour players enjoy having the freedom of you know they book a time and they go. Oh hey, I saw you know so, and so is that eight. I’m just going to join them. So it’s like we try to keep it as fluid as possible around here, cause we’re always, we feel like we always say, schedule and pencil, cause you’re going to be erasing a lot. 0:11:54 – Jeff PelizzaroYes, yeah, yeah. So do you have other like just general public golfers that come in to see you too? 0:12:00 – Alex BennettI do. I have a lot of. I actually have a lot of just normal golfers that are either retired and they’re just looking to play three days in a row without being in a lot of pain, and I also have a lot of juniors that I work with as well. I really enjoy working with a lot of the juniors. Honestly, that’s kind of why I got into it, because I had all the injuries I had and I was doing the wrong things in the gym, so I was really like, all right, how do I help people not make the same mistakes I made? 0:12:25 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, let’s, let’s dive into that a little bit, because I think that there’s there’s so much like low hanging fruit kind of stuff that people just don’t realize. Just a few simple things can can make a huge difference. But talk a little bit about you know. You said you’re kind of more working out for the pool, working out for the beach, muscles kind of thing, like most of us guys do when we’re, you know, young and you know and so what are some of the things that you know, some of these, let’s say the young aspiring golfers, and even then just general John Q, public golfer can start to implement. they’re going to make some big differences. And what should they maybe start to kind of take away from the routine that they probably have adopted? 0:13:04 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean, the thing I always preach to people is just go get assessed like get assessed by a TPI certified trainer or functional movement patterns trainer, somebody and I’m a big fan of, like I said, corrective exercise science, I think somebody with an understanding, and that’s huge when you’re playing a sport that’s as one sided as golf is, because you’re just always going to be so imbalanced and seeing someone and being really, you know, accurate with what your issues are, and then seeing them to kind of be like all right, let’s design a warm up routine or a daily routine that’s corrective based. That’s going to really help me stay healthy and play consistently and not be in pain. All my players have very specific warm ups to them. I mean, there’s basic foundational things we do and all the warm ups, but each one of them has a little bit. There’ll be like three or four moves that are different from player A to player B and I’m just I tell amateurs all the time I say you know, working all day and then just driving 30 minutes of the course and then swinging two clubs and then trying to hit balls isn’t going to do it, like you’re going to be in pain and you’re not going to get better at golf and then they take, you know, they take 50 lessons and they don’t see much improvement. And I’m like, well, it’s great they’re telling you the right thing, but physically you just can’t do it. And then when you sit at a desk all day and you’re trying to get more external rotation on your shoulders or more thoracic rotation, and you’re sitting here at a computer all day like this, what makes you think you’re just bodies just going to naturally be like oh, I can go do this now. So seeing seeing someone getting assessed and like and then getting a, you know, in a specific routine to that individual that they can do daily, that’s not going to make them super sore, but it’s going to, it’s going to have, you know, core activation. It’s going to have glued activation and it’s going to have some thoracic rotation. It’s going to have, it’s going to address the issues that person has. I think it’s just so important for every single person, even if they’re not trying to play competitive golf, but if they want to just be healthy and play golf. 0:15:05 – Jeff PelizzaroWell in the consistency is so key too right? I saw on your website you have a great video and you talk about how, if you are somebody that’s that’s working at a desk, or really just anybody when you go to the tee, your body’s going to feel different every single time that you step up to swing a golf ball or to swing a golf club at the golf ball, and so having that consistency is just dialing in the body right. So having some sort of routine that you know day in, day out you’re, you know what you need to check off the list to get yourself prepared. 0:15:35 – Alex BennettYeah, the site. It’s a work in progress. Right now I just had this, uh, Sal Sincatus, his name. He’s like an expert in videography and photography and everything. He just like reshot everything for me and we’re reshooting all the like workout videos, because all the workout videos were just me shooting myself like doing moves and and we’ve broken down a bunch of programs and everything. But like I can’t I can’t thank Sal enough. The websites become, you know, really good quality compared to when I did it myself. He was like, dude, we got to make this. This looks real mom and pop shop. We got to, we got to fix this and I’m like, well, I, yeah, I did it myself on the computer on weekends, like with my daughter crawling all over me. 0:16:14 – Jeff PelizzaroSo that’s pretty funny. You’ve got some great B roll with all the guys you work with and everything. 0:16:20 – Alex BennettIs he the one? 0:16:21 – Jeff Pelizzaroshooting your YouTube videos too. 0:16:24 – Alex BennettSo he shot all the B roll and he shot all the footage for the site. His team, like, did everything on the site but I’m I’m still, I’m shooting all my own YouTube stuff. Uh, he’s, he’s doing enough for me. I don’t want to ask him to do too much, you know no, it looks good. 0:16:39 – Jeff PelizzaroIt looks good. I just kind of started. How long have you been doing the YouTube channel? 0:16:43 – Alex BennettNot long at all. I just started that. I mean I just started doing it seriously the last like month or so. 0:16:49 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I, just I, because I just started to watch them and started seeing them pop up. Really good, though it’s cool to get an insight on some of the other stuff that you do, like you know, out on the soccer field doing some conditioning stuff, and that’s that’s something I was going to actually ask you about the conditioning that you do with your golfers, cause you know we see a lot of the, the stretch. You kind of moves in the, the stuff that everybody sees on Instagram. But you know you were talking about different conditioning. Especially you’re down in Florida the heat, um, you’ve got guys that are playing four days in a row but also practice rounds. So what are some of your go-tos when it is when you’re working on conditioning for your pros and then maybe also for just kind of the regular Joe? 0:17:27 – Alex BennettYeah, it’s uh, I mean, yeah, I started doing those. Those work I like because I think I did a video with like Ben Coles, who’s he was number one right now on the cornfairy money list. I did with Chandler Blanchet, who won PGA to rely on American money list. I just liked doing that cause I like giving the people kind of the behind the scenes. Look at these guys so they realized they’re just, they’re just normal every day, guys like everybody else. And we were doing like the little soccer challenge and stuff like that. But I I’m a big believer, especially like Chandler we were talking about he was playing in Tulum, mexico, for the tour championship which he won. But we were talking about like look, it’s going to be, you know, over a hundred degrees down there. Like let’s, let’s either do some sauna this week or let’s do some outdoor workouts, because you need to have some acclimation to that heat. And I mean credit to him, he did it. And then he goes down there and wins in extra holes and it’s like that. You know that stuff pays off. But that’s the stuff. I think people don’t really see like that level of oh, wow, okay, when these guys are going to play in a hot climate. They’re doing some acclimation to that hot climate before. I mean those guys are, they’re walking a minimum 72 holes. That’s just their. You know, tournament that’s not the practice rounds and everything like you said it’s. It’s definitely like a grueling sport that people don’t realize. But I mean I’m a big fan of more. So just in the gym, keeping the pace up when we’re doing our strength training Like I’m not, we’re not doing a ton of, especially in season, we’re not doing like a ton of power lifting where we’re going to have to take three to four minutes off in between reps. Most of the time I like to superset things. So guys are going for more exercise, right to the other exercise, back to the other exercise, and they’re not. You know, I mean when I have three to four guys in there, they definitely take a little more break and they’re they’re talking some crap to each other and talking about whatever game was on the night before, whatever that is. I’m all for that because that’s just camaraderie and guys enjoy it. But I’m more of a fan of just keeping the pace up in the gym, you know, having your specific movements. I’m not a big fan of running. I’ve just found that it just beats guys. I mean they just get beat up and no one’s in perfect, you know alignment and hardly any of these golfers have proper running motions or gates. So they go for like a long distance run and they’re like man my hips, killing me my knees, killing me my backs, you know so it’s. I just don’t do a lot of that stuff. I am a fan we have like a skier here, we’ve got the Techno Gym Curve Treadmill. I like getting guys doing some like sled pushes, even even lighter, quicker sled pushes. Where they’re, they’re maybe not moving a ton of weight, but they’re having to move it fast. I’m a big fan of that type of stuff. 0:20:09 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I’m a. I’m in total agreement. As far as the running’s concerned, I think so many people lean on running it for conditioning or treadmill or whatever, just because it’s it’s easy to do. Right, it’s easy to just run. But to your point, especially for high level golfers that are earning a paycheck to send them out to condition and do that when their gate patterns might be off there they might do something that, just, you know, puts them out for the next week and they don’t necessarily need running capacity for for their golf, right. 0:20:41 – Alex BennettNo, I mean, I tell guys all the time the first, my first job is just not to injure you and and allow you not to get injured. So if there’s something like I have, guys show me like a you know Instagram clip, they’re like, oh man, look at this move, and I’m like, yeah, that’s great, but that guy’s a full-time crossfit athlete, like he’s not a golfer, he’s not going to play, you know, six weeks in a row and you know, and he doesn’t have he’s better shoulder mechanics than you or whatever it may be. So it’s like it’s it’s sometimes having to dial those guys back. They’re so competitive. It’s not all about pushing them. It’s sometimes being like, hey, let’s, let’s calm down a little bit, let’s not do that. That’s. That’s going to lead to some issues. So it’s definitely a different take relationship with those guys, though, too. 0:21:24 – Jeff PelizzaroSpeak, if you would, to the to the point of how important it is to have a specific goal in mind. So, like you’ve got Billy Horschel, you’ve got Sam Ryder. These guys obviously their, their goal is specifically for the PGA tour. Now you might have John Smith that comes in and he’s looking to you know, lose some weight. He wants his golf game to get better. But how might it be different that when you’re working with somebody like that, where you know they’re looking a little bit more for general health and a little bit of weight loss, that also helps their game? 0:21:54 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean it’s huge. I mean you got to have I don’t want to say an end goal in mind, because I feel like there’s never an end. You’re always just trying to get better but you got to have something. You got to have those those steps along the way where you go. Oh, I am getting better. My, my swing speed is up three miles an hour. I just played three days in a row and I just noticed my back doesn’t hurt. I’ve had guys, I mean, that are just like I just want to be able to bend over and tie my shoe, you know, and it’s like I’ve got. They come into the gym after a month or so and they’re like hey, alex, look at this, and they’re like pumped, as if, you know, somebody just came back and won, won a PGA tour event. It’s like that’s a big deal of them just to be able to bend over and tie their shoe with no pain. So I mean everyone’s got different goals and everyone’s starting with, you know, on a different scale. And it’s important to like realize that when you’re training them that hey, billy horse was here, but I’m not going to be able to push this guy to that level or I’m not going to be able to push them as hard. And I mean that’s something I’ve noticed, like Sam Ryder. Sam Ryder worked together for I mean I want to say it’s it’s probably been five years, maybe, maybe over five years. And and like this season going into this season, I noticed a huge difference with him, just knowing. He was just very focused and he was like look, I want to make top 70. That’s my, that’s my goal, I’m going to work hard. And he came out of the gates. I mean he didn’t miss a single workout, he didn’t show up late, like. And then he came out of the gates. He played great and it was. It was nice to see because he’s always been so talented Everyone around here that plays with him knows how talented that guy is and to see it finally like coming to fruition and him putting in the right work and and really just zeroed in. And we’ve been saying we just shot this thing for the PGA tour. It’s been on the golf channel the past couple of days and he makes a joke about it. But we’ve been saying all off season. We’ve been saying all the season you got to keep checking the boxes. And he’s like, yeah, when I wake up, I got to, I got to hydrate and then I got to do my warmup. That’s checking boxes, like he’s got to take the steps to be great and it’s, it’s. He’s finally, you know he’s over 30. 0:23:56 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd I think he’s like all right, it’s time for me to win, like it’s time for me to realize my full talent, and it’s fun to watch how much do you see that that little mental shift of even just the checking the boxes you know the process of, okay, I did this, I did this, I did this how has that seemed to impact his confidence level and just the way he carries himself? Because I know that, you know, you probably see with the juniors and anybody you work with, just when they start to to really see themselves doing the things that other people aren’t necessarily doing and they’re like, yeah, I’m, I’m doing this, I’m doing this, I’m doing this, it seems, in my experience, seems to make them carry themselves a little differently. Have you seen that in him and some of the other guys? 0:24:36 – Alex Bennett100%. Yeah, 100%. I’ve seen it. Just in the way he carries himself, You’re right, I mean he’s just much more confident. He knows, he’s putting in the work. So, like he knows his skill, can, can, just show, he’s not relying purely on talent. So I mean you definitely see a difference in the way he carries himself and he’s I mean he might be mad at me for for saying this, but in the years past he was always a guy who texts me on like, say a Thursday, and be like hey, I’m going to be back next week, Can you put me in Monday through Friday. So I’d put him in the schedule, you know I’d be fine. And then Monday morning would roll around and he was supposed to come in at 10 AM, at be like 10, 10, and I’d text him and be like, hey, you know where are you at. And he’d be like, oh dude, sorry, Like I’m in, I’m in Las Vegas right now, Like I’ll be back in a couple of days, you know. So this year he hasn’t done that at all and he’s just been, you know, super focused and I think he’s just finally like all right, it’s time for me to realize my full potential and it’s it’s, it’s fun to see. It’s been enjoyable to watch. 0:25:37 – Jeff PelizzaroDo you get out and play with any of these guys at all? 0:25:40 – Alex BennettYeah, actually I just played a couple of months ago with Sam and Vince Kivello. I don’t know if you know Vince, he’s got his future tour card. He’s been on a medical. I don’t actually work with Vince, but he’s a. He’s a great guy and he’s around here, he’s a member at a Lanny Beach country club down here and we got out. We got out there and played and I was actually 400 through seven and Vince was like man, what, what made you you know what made you stop playing? Like, the game looks pretty solid. And I was like, oh, just just hang around, man, we still got some holes to go. Next thing, you know, you know, I ship a few drivers out of bounds into some houses. And he’s like, oh, okay, all right. 0:26:16 – Jeff PelizzaroI would imagine, though, that going out with those guys and them seeing that you, you can actually play, you know you’re not just a just a fitness guy, you’re. You’re a fitness guy that knows the game, you know the body, you know that’s got to give them a lot of confidence in you, which, again, they they know like hey, I’m working with a guy, that that he’s got my back, and I know that what we’re doing is the right thing to do, to put my to, to put me at my highest level. 0:26:40 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean, I think it definitely helps. And I think it goes back to kind of what I said about sometimes you got to dial these guys back and it’s like, look, I’ve played, I’ve played a schedule where I’ve been on the road a lot and I’m trying to play my my best golf and I’m just not capable because my body’s not agreeing with the travel or the routine of playing that many days in a row. And I tell those guys, like, look, I felt those feelings before, I’ve had injuries, I’ve had back injuries, I’ve had shoulder injuries, I’ve had the wrist injury. And it’s like I’m going to set them up to where they’re, they’re healthy and they’re feeling good. We might not push it into the gym to the max, where they’re lifting as heavy weight, as you know, so-and-so, but I’m going to make sure that I’m setting them up for success. When it comes down to them being on the road for four to five to six weeks, I don’t want them I mean, they always come back a little beat up after being on the road that long but I want them to be able to play good golf deep into the season and feel like they can play consistent golf all season. So I think it helps being able to be a decent player and I mean I don’t get out to play as much as I used to and I mean we’ve got, we’ve got a kid now and she’s she’s almost three, so like weekends are definitely just kind of hanging out with the family, so I definitely don’t get to play as much. But I think I think those guys appreciate that I can actually, you know, swing the club and I know what I’m talking about a little bit when it comes to swinging the club and and I work, I work with a lot of different tour players that work with a lot of different coaches and I think it helps the swing coaches be able to call me and go hey, you know, we’re really working on him using the ground a little bit better, getting a little more internal rotation into his left hip. He’s kind of bailing out. You know me just knowing immediately, like what they’re talking about. 0:28:16 – Jeff PelizzaroWhen you’re working with the coaches and obviously you work very closely with Todd and the staff there, which I want to hear a little bit more about that dynamic too but when you’re working with a player and you do know like, hey, this guy needs, are the coaches saying like this is the move we’re working on, these are the things that we’re seeing, how do you implement you know what you’re doing in the fitness world, in the fitness side of things, into the skills or the mechanics of it? You know there’s there’s a lot of people and again my own personal experience people come in what’s a good exercise for this? You know what’s a good golf exercise? And it’s not quite that simple, right? It doesn’t translate directly from the cable machine over to to the 100% to the golf course. Yeah. 0:28:59 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean I just I just remembered I got a call, got back, actually a coach that called me earlier that I didn’t call back but he so like we have a player that’s on corn fray tour. He’s had a really good season. Um, john Scott Ratten is the coach’s name and he’s out of congressional. Really good guy, really good coach. And Jimmy Stanger is the player and he he started to see me this off season. He had a lot of like back pain and it was a lot of stuff where I didn’t even need to know the golf swing because I was just like listen, like we got to clean all this up. He’s got some issues Mechanically. He’s not got the right activations, he doesn’t use the right muscles at the right time. Um, so we need to clean this up before I even, like start thinking about golf swing and what he needs to do differently to help his body. But he’s a great guy. I mean he’ll, he’ll FaceTime me, he’ll show me video and like a good thing with Jimmy Stanger is kind of similar. Like he wasn’t, his left leg was extending way too early in the swing, so all his rotational force was pretty much just going straight up the chain into his back. Um, he wasn’t, you know, absorb it. He wasn’t using the ground to help him break. There was no absorption of that power. And it was left leg. His left glute was like non-existent. Um, so we did a lot of work just getting his glute medius better, getting his left glute better, getting him to use like his quad and hammy and glute when he’s coming down into the downswing. So, like, when I look at a guy like that, I’m going to go all right, we’re going to do a lot of split stance work, you know, especially focusing on that left leg forward and having him, you know, thoracically rotate into that hip while he keeps his big toe down. What I find a lot of times with those guys is they just want to. As soon as they start rotating into it, they just want to lift their big toe. It’s like a kind of a cop out of actually using their glue to rotate into it. Those fashion lines with your big toe and your glue to have a lot of late, like you know, a lot of correlation. Um, so I really get those guys like I’ll put a band under their big toe and pull it and I’m like, hey, don’t, don’t, like you know, don’t let that big toe come up cause his band is going to hit me in the wrist. So things like that I’ll tie into when I, when I hear from a golf coach, hey, we need to get him better. And I see in the assessment like, hey, this is a direct correlation to the pain he’s feeling as well. Um, so it’s always good too when the swing instructors, you know eyes, are matching up with what I’m seeing in the assessment. It makes everybody’s job a little easier, makes my job easier, and then I can make his job easier. But but that’s where I, you know, I get. I get some crap on social media when I use, like a disc or a bozu ball, or some people are like, oh, this stuff, and it’s like not everything is about creating power. Like when I, obviously, when I put a disc under someone’s foot, they’re not going to create a ton of ground force, like they’re using the disc, but like with him, his left leg wasn’t very active. So I want to put a disc on, I want to put some instability and make him use that left leg to stabilize as he rotates. So it’s like there’s different uses for things. Like if I had a guy and I’m like, oh, we’re going to try to create ground force. I’m not going to be having them doing cleans on a, on a bozu ball, obviously, you know. So it’s like I love social media and I hate it at the same time, cause it’s like I’m not going to explain everything I’m doing it and I’m not going to put all the steps that it took to get to this spot or why we’re doing it, but I’ll explain a little bit. But you always get those people that jump on there and they’re like oh, what are you doing? It’s like just relax, relax. 0:32:12 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, yeah, social media can be the best and the worst, for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, then do you then have any place for them to to maybe swing and like feel that immediately in in their golf swing? I mean, obviously you have a place to do it. Do they go out to the range? Do they just do some swings in the gym? And how do you kind of take that? Okay, here’s. Here’s what we just did, we just activated this, we got this, this work in your feeling this. Now do you then have them feel that in their golf swing? 0:32:37 – Alex BennettYeah, 100%, I mean we’ll have. We always take lunch here from like 12 to one, and a lot of times I’ll have guys from 1230 to one. We’ll be in the bay doing like swing catalyst, trying to get them to feel like we’ll do a lot of cues and activations and then have them swing and a lot I mean pretty much every time they go. Oh yeah, all right, I see what you’re saying now, like they connect it. I mean these guys are all good athletes too. That’s. The thing is, is you give them the proper cue? They’re going to do it in the swing, like they got to where they’re at for a reason. When it comes to the, the amateurs, or like the retired guy that’s trying to get a little bit better, it might take a little more coaching and a little more time, but it’s the same idea. Like I’ll give them some cues. Be like I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone and given a player a cue and they go oh, that’s supposed to be like this. I’m supposed to feel like my glue back here and I’m like, yeah, you’re not supposed to just feel your hip flexor when you rotate, but it’s great. I mean, I’m very lucky to be at a place like this that allows me to just go down to the bay and have guys hit balls and, like Carl you on, he’s also. He’s a PGA Tour player I work with. He’s a guy he loves just like going to the bay. He’ll do a full workout in the bay in the heat and he’ll just be like, hey, let’s, you know, let’s bring a few bands, let’s bring a few med balls, and I’m going to bring my clubs and, like you know, we’ll do a couple sets of some exercises. Then it’ll hit 10 balls and he’s just trying to. He’s a very feel based guy and he’s just trying to feel that connection and same thing. Like that’s a good thing. Todd Anderson is his swing coach and that’s that’s. The other good thing is. So, you know, todd can just pop in and be like, oh, I like that, that’s a good feel, I like. You know, whatever it may be, he doesn’t always like the feels I try to come up with, but I like to think he’s pretty open minded about him for sure. 0:34:18 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, I think that’s what’s really cool is having you guys so close there that you can bounce those ideas off of each other, and I assume you guys have all kinds of technology that you use to mention this swing catalyst and what else. Do you guys have there, any biomechanics kind of stuff and any biomechanics specialists there that are helping with some of those things? 0:34:37 – Alex BennettSo we’re currently we’re currently getting gears, which will be great, yeah, which will be great. We had KVEST and we we ended up kind of getting rid of the KVEST. I mean it’s, it’s a great product. We just had issues with it getting like calibrated. And people are paying, you know, they’re paying a lot of money to come here for an hour and it’s like we don’t want to be calibrating something for 15, 20 minutes or them hitting one ball on us. How to you know, recalibrating. So we kind of went away from that. We’ve been, I mean, we really use swing cat a lot and then obviously we use video and track man. We’ve got all that good stuff, but the, the gears, will be a great, a great addition for sure. Have you worked with? 0:35:17 – Jeff Pelizzarothat at all before we have. 0:35:21 – Alex BennettI’m currently doing a lot of education just about like biomechanics and the gears and how to read all the data and everything like that and I find it. I love that stuff. I’m like a geek about that stuff, so I’m looking forward to getting it. It’s going to be exciting. It’s it’s cool to I. Right now I’m doing a bunch of stuff with a baseball guy just talking about rotation and power and it’s it’s cool. It’s cool to see the differences. I think there’s a lot of correlations in baseball and there’s also not a lot of correlations in baseball. It’s just totally different spine angles and you use your slings a little differently, but but it’s cool to see just different perspectives on how to create speed and how to create power. 0:35:59 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I heard a great quote a couple of days ago, I think it was a. Have you ever heard of Dr Kwan? Yeah, and he said something about you. Know, movement sequencing is way more important than muscle conditioning when it comes to creating speed, creating efficiency. And and and I’m like you I want to learn so much more about the biomechanics piece of it and understanding the sequencing a little bit better and just watching some of those things which I’m sure you’re ingrained in completely with the biomechanics research you’re doing now or learning that you’re doing about, and speak to that a little bit, about how you try to develop some sequencing and what you see with your tour pros compared to some of the amateurs Because I know what I see is amateurs it seems like there’s so much effort being put forth in our swings versus the pros. They make it look so easy but yeah, they’re obviously swinging way faster, hitting a ball way further. 0:36:54 – Alex BennettYeah, the actually it’s funny. You said the thing I just shot with Sam Ryder. We were talking about how Sam likes to do a lot of dynamic work before he plays to improve that sequencing and really get those like fast twitch muscles going. And I was saying, yeah, sam tends to get quick, but quick can be slow. And the lady was like the producer was like, well, wait, what are you talking about? Quick can’t be slow. I’m like, well, if his hips get too quick and his arms get left behind, it’s going to be slow because he’s going to stall at impact and try to catch up with the face. She was like shut, your mind was I don’t. I don’t know if she ever really understood what I was saying, but it’s 100% true. I mean, there’s so many players and you hear it from amateurs all the time that they’ll come down and like, watch some of our tour players just hit some balls and they’ve got the track man numbers on the board and they’ll be like he does not look like he’s swinging at 120. You know, it looks like he’s swinging at 100. And I was like, well, it’s because the sequencing is perfect, you know, and it’s, it’s so efficient. And you’re right. You see all these amateurs that are trying to create a lot of speed and you see them getting real like herky jerky at the top and it’s like, yeah, but when you’re trying to get the ball to the top, what you’re doing, an impact and especially if you get real tilted, you’re actually slowing down at impact. Your max speed is happening back here somewhere, so you’re not actually creating that much speed when you hit the ball. And it’s what I found. My favorite thing in the gym is the Kaiser. I use the Kaiser functional trainer nonstop and what I find is when I have players do different types of chops whether it be like a split stance, choppers, you know, just a regular stance is you’re going to sequence it because you have to pull tension. So I do a lot of work with that Kaiser, where I make guys do a lot of different chops. I have a, an alignment rod with a golf grip on it and I make guys do a lot of like quick swings and I go we need to hear this whoosh, you know, at impact, or or, if it’s, if we’re working on specific stuff, I’ll have them be like all right, I need to hear this whoosh back here and I need this left foot to kind of hop. At the same time you need to time those up, sequence those up. So I mean there’s a lot of different ways and I try to. The good thing with the Kaiser is, you know it gives you the, gives you the power output per rep. So guys can really see like, oh, that was a fast wrap and I felt more pressure into my big toe or felt more pressure in the ball in my foot when I did that. So it’s like those instinct cues. And then with the you know, the alignment rod, with the grip on it, it’s the same thing. They can hear the whoosh when it happens and it’s like an instinct cue. They go oh okay, I did this a little different that time and that was faster this time. So I like, I like things that give guys instant feedback. 0:39:26 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s almost like having a fitness launch monitor right, like being able to read the tension, or even just the audio cues, of being able to flip your driver over and swing, you know, with the handle and hear those same kind of whooshes and 100% and being able to do it in different spots means that you’re doing different things with your body, right? So just building up that awareness, absolutely. Let’s take a second to thank our partners over at LivePure. Livepure is the number one hydration drink that you need on the golf course, especially when it’s getting hot out there. You’re sweating, you’re playing lots of golf. You need something more than just water in your water bottle. So Dr Troy Van Biesen and his team formulated one of the greatest hydration products out there that is no sugar added, all natural ingredients and the top quality PGA Tour Pros, champions that you know are all using this on the golf course. So go over to LivePurecom that’s L-I-V-P-U-Rcom Check out all their products. You can use code 18STRONG and let LivePure champion your day Again with kind of more the not Tour Pros that you work with. But you know the people that just come and see you on a regular basis the country club guys, the. Do you have people that just come in like for a day they’re in town, they’re like, hey, I want to go to the performance center, and you know people that drop in like that. 0:40:54 – Alex BennettThat is. Yeah, that’s the cool thing about being here is you just never know who’s going to come in and you never know where they’re traveling from or whatever it may be. I mean we just did a big talk with 24 players from what’s called Pathway to Progressions. It’s a PGA Tour initiative to help players with diverse backgrounds to get noticed by college coaches, and I mean we do a lot of these types of clinics and stuff like that. And some of these clinics you’re like literally teaching people how to hold a club and like they come up to the gym and they’re like I didn’t know I was doing fitness, I don’t want to do fitness, and it’s like it can be brutal. But these guys, I mean I started with them and I was talking with them and they asked some like really good questions and I’m like man, these guys, I think these guys are pretty good players. And then, yeah, well and behold, we go out there and all our coaches were like man, these guys are like really good, these are like no joke. And it was cool to see, because I mean we had a couple of guys from like Argentina, that we had kids from Mexico. I mean people were coming from California, texas. They’re from all over the place and it was just it was cool to see how many. I mean it’s a cool thing that tour is doing, obviously, but it’s amazing they were just talking about a lot of these guys don’t get to play in like AJGA, so they don’t get noticed by coaches and they’re sending them out to Nevada to go in front of, like the coaches showcase and I mean it was cool because these guys are. I mean they’re insane. One of the guys shot 68 on stadium from the tips. Whoa, it was like and he just played in the US junior. I mean he’s, he’s, he’s a stud and it’s like he has no college offers and you’re like man it’s. But nobody, nobody’s heard of him, nobody knows him. 0:42:24 – Jeff PelizzaroSo, but that’s a cool thing. 0:42:27 – Alex BennettBut it’s, it’s definitely. I definitely have people, just normal people, that come in for a couple of days and they want to get an assessment done and they want like a quick you know program or two that they can do when they go back home, and I mean some of those it’s. I’ve met some really cool people that have come from all over the place to do those little like things. They follow me on Instagram or they just Google the performance center or whatever it may be. It’s always, I always enjoy it, I that’s. I’ve had people ask me like oh you know, would you ever just want to work with tour players? And I always say no, because I enjoy just meeting always different people with different backgrounds, the different experiences. It’s like it’s, it’s the fun part of my job. I know every hour is going to be a little different. You know that’s cool. 0:43:08 – Jeff PelizzaroObviously, I know everybody that shows up is going to have their own individual needs. You know they’re going to walk out of there with their own individualized program. But for the people that are listening, that are just looking for a couple things, you know, getting that, that idea of the low hanging fruit, what are, what are some of the biggest things that you see on a consistent basis, not for everybody, but you know that a lot of people are going to benefit from whether that be some sort of mobility or some sort of a little bit of a, some sort of mobility drill or, you know, warm up wise or anything along those lines. 0:43:37 – Alex BennettYeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing I see is people don’t realize how weak they are when it comes to lateral movement. So I’m a big fan of just giving someone a band and putting it in their golf bag and going, hey, just put this band, you know, over your shins, over your feet, over your quads, and just walk sideways and keep your toes straight, don’t let them flare out, don’t let them flare in. And it’s amazing to me like when people take a little band, that’s not much tension and how much their hips start burning and how we then they go Whoa, like I would have never guessed this. And I go yeah, you know, golf is a very lateral sport and we’re very linear people and when you don’t have that lateral stability, you’re going to have a hell of a time playing consistent golf or creating any speed. So I think that’s that’s like the the most common thing I see with people that have never done like much you know in the fitness background as far as when it comes to go off or or sport specific fitness is just how weak they are laterally. And then I have a lot of my tour players that have bands on their quads and they’ll be jumping side to side and I’ll make them keep the width between their knees. And and I mean A lot of my guys are good at it now. But when we first started there like how am I, how are my hips burning this bad, I’m like, well, we need to. We need to build them up, man. 0:44:49 – Jeff PelizzaroIt’s, it’s very surprising, and you know, back to the biomechanics, I mean People don’t realize how much of the the lateral forces impact the way that you rotate. We think everything’s rotation, rotation, but it’s like, no, there’s got to be lateral to create that right absolutely, absolutely. 0:45:06 – Alex BennettAnd I mean the other thing I see a lot of it’s just people not being able to like thoracically extend. So I mean I just I one of my favorite stretches just having someone take like a dialer or a pole and just put in their hands On top and just extending their arms straight, sinking their chest down towards the ground. And it’s like I mean, everyone I have is like, oh my god, this feels amazing and it’s like, yeah, it’s. It’s funny how such a simple stretch is something that, like, most people have just never done and you’re like, huh, I mean, but that’s like getting some lat length and like being able to get some extension out of the thoracic. Just everybody’s so rounded and they always, you know, they’re sitting there holding their phone, they’re looking down and so that’s. Those are two that I just see with everybody, that I think everybody should just do. 0:45:50 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd to your point like that’s why getting assessed can be so important. Yeah not even necessarily to get so specific on what you need, but like just to open your eyes. That holy cow I. I figured this stuff should be pretty easy and I can’t do it right like the bands around your ankles, how tight are your hamstrings? You know, can you touch your toes? Can you? You know how rounded are your shoulders, all of those little things. It’s amazing when you get put in a position that you haven’t done in a long time. You’ve been sitting at a desk and then all of a sudden, you’re, you’re tested and put in this Scenario where you you thought you’d be able to do something easily. Balance is one of those things, too, that I see a lot Like. People just can’t, can’t believe how bad their balance is they can’t stand on one leg. 0:46:34 – Alex BennettYeah, exactly to your point before. 0:46:35 – Jeff PelizzaroLike, balances, balances everything. 0:46:38 – Alex BennettBalancing you know, your, your corrections that you need, but also just balance to maintain yourself in the golf swing 100% and I think too, like I think parents One of the things I see that’s most common that parents get wrong is the hamstring test. Like they’re always like my son, he can’t even touch his shins, like what? And I’m like, well, you know, my first questions always have they grown a lot in the past? You know eight months and they’re like, oh yeah, they’ve grown, you know, three, four inches. And I’m like, well, that’s why, like the muscles so over stretched from the growth spurt that they can’t, they can’t. I’m like, just, you know, let’s do some active mobility and things like that, but let’s not just how to have them hold a hamstring stretch for a while and plus, you know, like you don’t want to take that, that speed away from them either, that quick twitch Speed. So I think that I mean that’s one of the things like low-hanging fruits that I see a lot with parents that they get wrong with, like their junior golfers is they’re like, oh, my son’s so tight. And I’m like, well, you know, he’s grown a lot, so he’s the muscles are overstretched already. But it’s also, you know, let’s not, let’s not take if the kids got a lot of fast twitch muscle, let’s not take it away from them. Let’s not turn them into a yogi. So it’s like what’s like? Like you’re saying, let’s do an assessment, let’s know the individual and what they’re good at and let’s I’m a big fan of Whatever you’re good at, let’s make it even better. And then if there’s some issues, you know limitations let’s obviously address those, but let’s not ignore what you’re really good at and try to make these limitations a strength, because I just feel like that never ends up in making the player actually better. 0:48:09 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s a that’s a great point. I think it’s a natural default for people to think that everything in golf has to be about flexibility and being able to. Rotate and get in these positions and and you’re absolutely right that you know if you’ve got, especially if you have that fast twitch speed that’s the one thing you definitely don’t want to rob a kid of yeah, let’s not do that. All right, man, before we close it up, I got some typical questions we ask everybody that comes on the show. So yeah, first and foremost, caddy shaker, happy Gilmore. 0:48:36 – Alex BennettSo I’m definitely a happy Gilmore guy. I mean I was, I was born in 1990 and I mean I just feel like Adam Sandler was like my childhood. You know all those movies. I like caddy shack it’s a classic movie and it’s funny. But I’m definitely a happy Gilmore guy. 0:48:52 – Jeff PelizzaroIf you could pick a walk-up song to the first tee box, what’s your walk-up song? 0:48:55 – Alex BennettOh, man, this was a tough one for me. I Was. I was bouncing back and forth, I mean I always. You know, I just I Grew up listening to rap, my whole life pretty much, and I grew up in metro Detroit playing, playing all these types of sports and that’s just what we listen to, and it was. It was either between Something I mean any song on get rich or die, try and 50 cent, or I’m a big fan of the song blessings by by big shot and Drake. That’s like one of my favorite songs, so I’d say I’d say one of those two love it? 0:49:28 – Jeff PelizzaroIs there a book that that has meant a lot to you or that has really inspired you that you’d like to recommend to either your players or just to anyone in general? 0:49:37 – Alex BennettUm, that was a tough. I mean I feel like I like to read. I mean I’ve read so many good books. Chris Doris is like a really good author. That’s not, that’s not well known. He’s a good mental coach. He’s got a lot of good books like daily affirmations. Um, I mean, he’s got one. I mean it’s all about just kind of finding your purpose and chasing. I can’t. I’m blanking on the name right now it’s an older book. Um, chris Doris is a really good author. I love I just love his, his mental coach work as well. And then I’m reading a book called inner excellence right now. I think it’s jim murphy. 0:50:17 – Jeff PelizzaroYeah, I got it right on the shelf here. 0:50:19 – Alex BennettReally good book. It’s awesome. Really good book, yeah. So I mean, right now I’d say that’s the best book and that’s one that I’m definitely recommending to my players, for sure, is that is that book. 0:50:28 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s a. That’s a huge one. I know that, like Shuffler has mentioned that book, some of the top level guys have mentioned that book and and just taking themselves to the next level. So, yeah, it’s. It’s unreal, really cool. Um, all right, what’s your dream for some? If you could pick a for some to go play golf with, could be anybody celebrities, historical figures, whoever who you picking. 0:50:49 – Alex BennettYeah, um, I would definitely say Michael Jordan grew up a huge Michael Jordan fan. Um, man, this was a Steve Iserman, Just I mean, you know, captain the red wings. My whole childhood I played hockey. My whole life is my favorite sport, so he was definitely like my hero growing up. Um, and the third one was was tough. I think I would just, I think I would just bring my dad, because I know you’d love to play with steve y and Michael Jordan, so I think I would just have to bring him. You know, very cool. 0:51:21 – Jeff PelizzaroAll right if we had the 18STRONG jet fueled up. We’re like Alex, we’re going anywhere you want to go. You got a free ticket where you heading. What would? 0:51:29 – Alex Bennettgolf course, oh, man, I mean, I feel like the automatic answer is augusta, just because it’s, it’s just this hollow plate, or you just, you know, you just want to go play, you just want to walk the grounds. Um, but man, I’ll tell you what I would. I would love to go to band and dunes. I’ve never been out there. I love, like I love, the pacific northwest and I’ve never really been there, but I just love the way it looks and I love mountains and I’m more of a mountain guy than an ocean guy, which kind of sucks living in florida because there’s not, there’s not even a hill here. But but I think I’d go. If it’s not augusta, I’d go somewhere out there. 0:52:09 – Jeff PelizzaroThat’s definitely on my list also. All right, I’m gonna throw another one in here. Um, that’s not on our normal list, but since you’re a tpc sawgrass. What’s what’s your hardest hole there and what’s your favorite hole there? 0:52:22 – Alex BennettOh man, that’s a good one man, mine. I mean, dude, my nemesis is number five. I’m just always, or you know what, actually, I take that back. My nemesis is number 14. Yeah, the par 4 with the water on the left, um oh yeah, I’ve just. I’ve made some birdies on five at least before teen. I just feel like I’ve never played well and I feel like the the wind is always just howling in your face and it’s just an absolute monster. I played a tournament here when I was a kid I was a junior in high school and my parents were standing on the car path about 30 yards right of the fairway and I almost killed them. I mean, it was like I just bailed out harder than you could ever bail out, and then the next day they were standing even further right and I almost got them again. I’ll never forget it. And it was just like my dad’s like hey, like what are you doing? There were 50 yards from the fairway and you’re always getting us and I was like man, I don’t know. I, this tbox just doesn’t add up to me. So I would say that hole for sure, and then my favorite hole out here, I mean I love, I love 16 that par 5. I think it’s just a cool hole and it’s it’s like you know you’re During the players. I think it’s one of my favorite holes because it’s the best view of 17, so it’s like you get, you get the, you get the stadium atmosphere as you’re walking down 16 and it’s like you’re just looking across the water at what’s to come and it’s, it’s just a cool, cool atmosphere. 0:53:52 – Jeff PelizzaroI totally agree. So I had a chance to play it the day after the players and I can remember, like driving up on 16, you kind of get past the grandstands in the fairway on the right hand side and then all of a sudden the water opens up. You see, 17, you got that big tree on the left hand side and it’s like man. It doesn’t get any better than this. 0:54:10 – Alex BennettIt was no, it’s awesome, so it’s awesome, all right. 0:54:14 – Jeff PelizzaroAnd then last one. Is there a social media account that you think the 18STRONG crew should go out and follow? Obviously, you’re doing an amazing job, posting a ton of great content. Is there somebody else that you’d like to follow, that you’d recommend? 0:54:25 – Alex BennettThis one. This one was really tough for me. I I feel like there’s just so many good golf fitness Guys out there now like I feel like if I name them, I’m gonna leave some people out. 0:54:37 – Jeff PelizzaroUm doesn’t that to be golf fitness could be, could be a totally unrelated account too. You want to go there, rat. 0:54:43 – Alex BennettOh, that’s tough. I mean honestly it’s, it’s. It’s gonna sound like a cop out, but when I’m not like posting stuff, I really try not to scroll. 0:54:52 – Jeff PelizzaroOh smart man much very smart man. 0:54:55 – Alex BennettI know I. I just find the more I scroll on social media the Less happy I am. So it’s like I really I really try. If I’m not on there, I’m not and I know I have there’s a lot of posts I probably should like from friends of mine that I haven’t liked and I always tell like a lot of my Close friends. No, I just don’t really go on social media. When I’m, I post and then I just kind of try to get off of it and I’ll respond to like comments on my page and stuff like that. But I just try to, I just try not to like, just start scrolling. Um, but man, there’s I. I mean I follow so many good golf. I mean you know all the golf fitness guys and I mean the ando, uh, andos of the world, um, athletic golf fitness, Jonathan Alvelos, I mean there’s just so many. Yeah, lots of good ones out there. 0:55:43 – Jeff PelizzaroLots of good, yeah, well, speaking of which, tell everybody where they can follow you, where’s the best place website wise, social media wise all that. 0:55:51 – Alex BennettSo so website and social media is just ab fitness and golf. Uh, youtube is alex Bennett fitness and golf. Um yeah, that’s, that’s where to find me excellent. 0:56:05 – Jeff PelizzaroWell, alex, thank you so much for coming on today. It’s finally nice to you know, connect and get a chance to chat, and I’m sure we’ll be chatting much more in the future. I love what you’re doing. I love the work that you do. Um, get some of those guys, some some wins, out on tour and we’ll be seeing much more of you. 0:56:21 – Alex BennettYeah, I appreciate it, man. Anytime I had a good time. 0:56:23 – Jeff PelizzaroYou got it brother awesome. Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with alex bennett. If you want any more information that we talked about in the show, any of the links to his social media or any of the other Topps we talked about, go to 18strongcom. This is episode number 351 and you’ll find it all right there. We’ll catch up again with you next week with another great guest. Train hard, practice smart, play better golf. Transcribed by https://podium.page

Guest: Tommy Kuhl, Professional Golfer and University of Illinois AlumniHost: Jeff PelizzaroEpisode Number: 349Podcast: The 18STRONG Podcast SUMMARYIn this episode, Jeff Pelizzaro chats with Tommy Kuhl, a rising star in the world of professional golf. Tommy shares his journey from playing collegiate golf at the University of Illinois to transitioning into the professional realm, specifically the PGA Tour Canada. The conversation delves into the challenges, learning experiences, and the support system that has guided Tommy through this significant transition. MAIN TOPICS Introduction to Tommy Kuhl Tommy’s recent transition to professional golf after a successful stint at the University of Illinois. His experiences and challenges in the PGA Tour Canada. Tommy’s Collegiate Experience The prestige and challenges of playing for the University of Illinois. Team successes, individual achievements, and the influence of Coach Small. PGA Tour University System The benefits and structure of the PGA Tour University system for college players. Tommy’s insights into the system and its impact on his professional journey. Challenges of Professional Golf The mental and physical toll of continuous travel and tournaments. The financial challenges and the importance of enjoying the journey. Support System and Future Goals Tommy’s reliance on Coach Small and other Illini alumni for guidance. His aspirations and goals for the future in professional golf. RESOURCES MENTIONED Linksoul – The preferred brand of apparel for golfers. Mentioned as a sponsor in the episode. PGA Tour University – A system that aids college players in transitioning to professional golf. CONCLUSIONTommy Kuhl provides a candid look into the world of transitioning from collegiate to professional golf. His insights, challenges, and the support system that has been instrumental in his journey offer a unique perspective for aspiring golfers and fans alike. Tune into the 18STRONG Podcast for more in-depth conversations with golf’s rising stars. Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG Podcast episode number 349 with Tommy Kuhl, professional golfer. What’s up guys. Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast, where we are here to help you build a stronger game. This week we have on Tommy Kuhl, recently turned professional golfer that played golf at the University of Illinois, had a great career there playing for coach small. He And he’s now transitioning over into the professional world, playing on the PGA tour Canada. And we talk about Tommy’s experience going from the collegiate game. And everything that goes on there with all the resources that he has there. And then now becoming his own, basically his own [00:01:00] business as a golfer. And now having to figure out and navigate through the professional world. Through the travel, through the fitness, and figuring out his routines. We talked today with Tommy about some of the experiences he’s already had. Playing in the John Deere Classic, which is his first. PGA Tour event that he’s ever played in. Also a bit of a situation that he was in, in a US Open qualifier, where he ended up having to DQ himself. You may have heard that story and seen that on, the Monday Q or some of the other golf publications. that put that out where Tommy actually called a penalty on himself after shooting a course record at Illini Country Club and had to DQ himself because of rules infraction. So we go through all of the different situations that Tommy’s been in, what it’s been like to transition, and it’s just a great conversation with a young up and coming golfer that is looking to make his dream come true on the PGA Tour. Real quick, I want to say thanks to our sponsors and partners here. at 18STRONG. First is Link Soul. Link [00:02:00] Soul is our preferred brand of apparel and we’ve been working with Link Soul for a long time. They now not only provide our basically entire wardrobe when we’re on the golf course in casual settings, but even our Ryder cups that we have with our college buddies, all the golf trips we go on, everybody is now wearing Link Soul in our crew. And that’s pretty cool to see. You can go check out all of Link Soul’s gear. At 18STRONG. com slash link soul, and you’re going to get a 20% off discount on anything in your cart. If you go ahead and click the link right there. So go check out link soul again. They’ve got everything from golf apparel, shorts, hoodies, polos, button ups, everything that you need for the golf course and beyond 18STRONG. com slash link soul. Okay. Let’s get into the conversation with Tommy cool. Tommy Kuhl: So Jeff Pelizzaro: are you back home right now? Tommy Kuhl: Are you sorry? Yeah. So I’m actually in Windsor, Ontario. we have an event this week up here and then, I have two off [00:03:00] weeks starting next week. We’re on a four week stretch. This is the last one. So I’m going to finish strong. All right, Jeff Pelizzaro: sweet. So yeah, you had a good weekend last weekend, right? Yeah, I Tommy Kuhl: did. Yep. Got back on track. just finally some good golf. So it felt good to put together some rounds and Jeff Pelizzaro: build off of it. where was that event? Tommy Kuhl: it was in Toronto, TPC Toronto. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay. Third place finish? third place. Yeah. All right. so where does that put you right now? Order of merit? And, if you could even explain to people, like where? How the PGA Tour of Canada, what gets you to the next step and what’s your Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: basically, PGA Tour Canada, you’re playing for the top 5. top 5 on the money list, or the points list, I should say, gets your Corn Fairy Tour card at the end of the season. And we’re on week, I believe it’s 6 right now, 6 or 7. and, I, last week, helped me a lot. this tour is very top heavy with points. First or third. I made a clutch [00:04:00] birdie on hole 17, which bumped me up to solo third, got me a lot of points. And, I moved up, I think, 46 spots and I’m on 19th right now. I was outside the top 60, didn’t play my best golf, early this season, but, felt good to finally get a good finish. And, like I said, just going to keep building off of it and carry that momentum into this week. Jeff Pelizzaro: Nice. so you said there’s Four weeks left. Is that right? yes, Tommy Kuhl: this week and then three more after this. Jeff Pelizzaro: so a couple good finishes could, could pop you up towards the top there. and then that you said top five order AmeriCos to corn fairy tour, right? Correct. Tommy Kuhl: I believe first place gets their full corn cherry card and then two through five get conditional status. So that should get you in the first couple events of next season. just, that’s the goal for everyone up here, and a lot of guys up here are playing for top 25 on the Order of Merit, which gets you into second stage of Korn Ferry qualifying. But, I’m actually already exempt in the second stage through, the new PGA Tour [00:05:00] University. System. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay, cool. so yeah, explain that a little bit to us. I want to get into, your time at Illinois and obviously that’s what kind of got you to where you are. You’re having a really strong year. Last year at Illinois, PGA Tour University, which I was just talking to, our buddy, Justin Barjay, who is now working with PGA Tour University. And, I know that you know him very well. It sounds like you actually saw him today. but tell us a little bit about like how does PGA Tour University, what does that do? How does that work? Because that’s a fairly new thing, right? Tommy Kuhl: Yes. I want to say it’s three years, three years old. they started, three years ago,they made this new PGA Tour University and it gives,college seniors, you stay in school, and you play for the rankings. they go off world amateur golf ranking points, wagger,and it only counts for college events and, PGA Tour events. Based on how you play in college tournaments, the number of lagger points you get based on the finish and that, that goes into the system. obviously, like [00:06:00] everything, the better you play, the higher up you’ll be. there’s not much to it, play good golf and you’ll be up on those Jeff Pelizzaro: rankings. And so the top spots at PGA Tour University. do they get their tour card? And then some guys go Corn Fairy. What does that break down? Tommy Kuhl: yes. they’re making changes always to it. But, this was the first year that number one on PGA Tour U got his PGA Tour card. this… Stud by the name of Ludwig Eber, went to Texas Tech, had a heck of a college career, and,he gained his full PGA Tour card, and he’s off and running, he’s killing it right now, and, and then 2 through 10 get, Corn Fairy status. I think 2 through 5 get their Corn Fairy Tour card, and then 6 through 10 get Conditional status, I believe. and then 11 through 20 get full status on PGA Tour Canada. Jeff Pelizzaro: Okay, awesome. Yeah, I was, that’s why I was texting with, Justin today. We’re gonna hopefully bring him on the show too, so he can go a little deeper into [00:07:00] what PGA Tour University is and really the whole program behind it and what that’s doing for Tommy Kuhl: the game. it’s funny you brought it up. I, like you said, I actually saw him today. I know he’s traveling to events. I think that’s his new role, just going to events, learning more about, what it’s like up here. and, this game, professional golf, amateur golf, it’s always changing. And, it was great to see him today. And obviously he has a better idea of what’s going on in PGA Tour University. But, what a platform for college players, but it’s, It makes players stay in college, work for something and have a job out of college, I was talking to him today. I was like, if I just graduated, two months ago, what would I be doing now? Probably just chasing the mini tours and, PGA Tour University gave me the opportunity to come up here and, get a jumpstart professional goal. Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: So at the end of this season, Canadian Tour, if by chance you do not make it in that top five. Are there other tournaments that you’ll then be, like, looking to play in the interim before you get to, next year’s Canadian Tour or [00:08:00] Corn Ferry Tour, going through Q School and things like that? What are the other avenues that you can then take, even just to earn paychecks and make money? Because, I know everybody out there is, you guys aren’t rolling in the dough like the PGA Tour guys. people think PGA Tour Canada, they think. That sounds really big, but I know that, it’s a struggle to get out there, stay out there, make money, and make all the ends meet when you’re traveling, how many weeks a year. Tommy Kuhl: Exactly, yeah. I’m sure, like I said, I’m new to this, so I’m learning as I go, but, I’ve heard, the guys up here who’ve been out here, grinding it out have said there’s some pretty good mini tour events during the off season, down in Florida. I know there’s a minor league golf tour down there, and then, out west, there’s a new tour called the Asher Tour, and they provide, players with good opportunities to play and some decent purses, I’m sure during the off season, I’ll, sign up for a couple of those and just stay fresh. and for me, more than anything, I want to be out playing more than practicing. Obviously, practice is important, but I think to go out and test your game and,that’s where [00:09:00] I see, the, Biggest improvement in my game is going out and actually doing it. So I’m sure a player knows and,see if that prepares me for Q school. I’m sure Jeff Pelizzaro: it will. What have been some of the biggest changes for you switching from, you’re playing at one of the most elusive collegiate organizations at Illinois University. you’ve got all tons of resources there. You’ve got crazy practice facilities. You’ve got an incredible coach. You have all of these different, things at your disposal and now you’re a business. You are Tommy Kuhl Incorporated, right? Like you’re now looking to make your ends meet and make your way onto the tour. What have been some of the biggest changes and were you prepared for some of these? Obviously you have a lot of guys you can lean on that have taken that step too. Tommy Kuhl: It’s been a huge learning experience for me, even these first… Six weeks, it’s I mean i’m playing for money now, which is One thing I mean at the end of the day, it’s golf, you know You still got to go out and produce scores, but playing for money and just the [00:10:00] travel That’s one thing i’ve learned is just you know How expensive the travel is as a professional golfer and you know how hard the travel is on your body. You know physically how hard that can be and I went through a stretch there. where I wasn’t playing great golf either and it’s hard on you mentally as well. you’re not making anything when you miss the cuts and it’s hard. So you just got to find a balance, mentally and just keep going. like I said, just a huge learning experience and I’m learning every single day I’m out here. it’s good to have guys I know out here who have, who’ve been through it. And obviously, Coach Small and a lot of the Illini moms, I lean on them for support, but,I think more than anything, you just got to enjoy it. Yeah, all of us up here in Canada probably don’t want to be, this isn’t where we want to be, playing for the rest of our lives, but you got to find a way to enjoy it and, enjoy the grind of it and, keep that end goal of making the PGA Tour and winning on the PGA Tour in the back of your mind. Jeff Pelizzaro: Have you had a chance to head home at all during this stretch? I know you had a couple [00:11:00] tournaments which we’ll get to in a little bit. You had a big tournament that you went and played in, some qualifiers and stuff. We’ll touch on that. But have you actually had a chance to do you get a couple weeks off or a week off in Tommy Kuhl: between? It’s been pretty constant going. I’ve tried straight from this college season. We had regionals, nationals. And then I actually had the opportunity to represent the United States in the Arnold Palmer Cup. So I went straight from nationals to Arnold Palmer Cup and then straight from Arnold Palmer Cup to Canada. So I’ve been on the road. I want to say this is my 10th week in a row. Sprinkled in one day at home in there, when I got the opportunity to put in the PGA Tour event, but man, it’s just the constant grind, it’s hard, not a lot of time at home, which, is hard, but, like I said, you just got to enjoy and embrace the travel. Jeff Pelizzaro: Who are a few of the guys that you’ve been able to, reach out to? Obviously, you’ve got some PGA Tour guys that went through Illinois, and what’s some of the advice that they’ve maybe given you? [00:12:00] Regarding this big change in the travel and all the different things that you’re going through. Tommy Kuhl: I said, I would say the biggest person I’ve leaned on is Coach Small. Obviously, he’s been a huge role model for me. he’s someone I look up to and someone I respect a ton and he’s been through it. I think that’s why you see the program have so much success and, it’s because of him. he’s been through it. He’s been through the professional golf grind and I found myself calling him. A lot, just reaching out to him. It’s always good to hear his voice and the biggest thing he keeps telling me is, this is what you work for. This is what you’ve wanted to play professional golf and just more than anything go out and enjoy it You know, I think that’s one thing with golf that sometimes players can get wrapped up in this yeah, it’s hard on you. Sometimes it’s very hard, but you just got to find a way to enjoy it Enjoy the challenge of you know being up here competing, and just really embrace Jeff Pelizzaro: everything. take me [00:13:00] back to your Illinois days. So you were there five years, right? what did that trajectory look like? I know you and I had a chance to actually work together a little bit before you went to Illinois. it’s been really cool to be able to follow you and keep up with, what’s going on in your career. And, from the time you got to Illinois, Give us a little bit of a highlight reel, Tommy Kuhle highlight reel of, where things started, how, what it was like going there, knowing you’re going into this huge program. obviously it’s a huge honor that, and showed that you had tremendous talent going in. When you got there, was there a little bit of shell shock, or did you feel like you fit right in, fit into the family? How did those next five years play out? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, as a junior golfer from central Illinois, it was always a dream of mine to go play for the University of Illinois and coach Small. as a kid, I remember going to the Illinois golf camps with my brother and, getting to know coach Small and, get familiarity with, the university, the campus, the facilities. I always told my parents this was, That’s what I wanted was, that’s what I [00:14:00] wanted to work for is getting a scholarship to play for coach in the University of Illinois. I had a decent junior career, committed very early. I think I committed my sophomore or freshman year of high school. I had a decent junior career, won the state high school championship twice. And,going into my freshman year, it was a wake up call. I got there my freshman year and I didn’t know anything. that’s one way to put it. I thought I did, as a young player and I did my, such a big learning curve, to figure out and,it took me a while to, to learn as a selfish junior thinking he knows everything, and as I started to mature and as I got older in the university and, in the program, I started to see results more or less just listening to coach and what he Jeff Pelizzaro: preaches. when did you really start to get into the rotation of playing there? how many guys are on the actual squad? And then how many play in the individual events? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, [00:15:00] so we, so golf teams usually have around, I would say, 8 to 12 people, on the team. Our coach usually keeps our team around 8 to 10. fluctuated in that number of people. Through my time there and, freshman year, I didn’t play much in the lineup, obviously in college events, you have, let’s say, 10 guys on the team, and you do qualifying when you get there and throughout the year to see who’s in the lineup, five play in the lineup, and then depending on the tournament, coach might have the opportunity to take a few individuals, and those individuals, don’t get to play, for the team’s success. Basically, you’re just there playing, by yourself, which, that was me a lot of my freshman and sophomore year. I had a few opportunities to be in the lineup, and it was a huge learning experience for me. but, actually, my freshman year, I didn’t play the Big Ten championship. And then one of our fifth guy got hurt right before regionals and I got subbed [00:16:00] in for regionals and then we made it through and I got in the lineup for nationals as well. that was really the first time I was in the lineup and,it’s, it’s hard, man. It’s just, it’s hard to make the lineup at a program like that. It’s, you got to bring it every day and, that’s one thing I Jeff Pelizzaro: learned. What were some of the biggest successes that you guys had, both as a team and then you individually, in your five Tommy Kuhl: years at? as a team, we made it to the national championship three out of the four years. Obviously, COVID year, they didn’t, that season got cut short. But, we made nationals three out of the four years. We, er, sorry, nationals, yeah, three out of the four years. And then we made match play in nationals two out of the three years we were in. And that was probably, the biggest stage of golf I’ve been in, in college or even amateur golf. so that was really fun. just getting to chase that national championship with a group of guys, that’s what you work for all year. we, we, gave it all we had came up short, but,[00:17:00] definitely a very cool experience. And then individually, I never won in college. That was always my goal is to, get that individual win. obviously for me, I was more focused on the team success, but you do want to see individual results, but,had a couple of runner ups, But never got that win. So still searching for it. Jeff Pelizzaro: So I know that,you had a very successful last year. I was told to ask you, which are you more proud of being a first team All American or an academic All American? And I think that question came from, Tommy Kuhl: Oh, that’s a good one. Man, school for me was always hard, so it’s an honor to get the Academic All American, to be honest. I honestly put in a lot of work towards school, and to see, see me get that award is pretty special, and I know it means a lot to me and my family, but,First Team All American’s also a very big. Big honor to have and, honestly, if you would have told me I would have been a first team all american [00:18:00] my freshman year, I don’t know if I would have believed you, I always dreamed of it, as a junior golfer and obviously in college and that’s what you work for, but, man, I really don’t think, it, just a lot of hard work, honestly, and, very special year. Jeff Pelizzaro: What was that balance like? School, obviously, you put a lot of time and effort into your schoolwork. But then, playing golf at a Division I school like Illinois, many people equate it to a full time job. So what was it like to balance those things out, and what processes or routines did you find that were most beneficial to help you do that? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, it’s very difficult, and I would say one thing that helped me more than anything is just the resources that the University of Illinois offers to student athletes, specifically golf. we have an athletic academic counselor, Sherry Clapp. I don’t know if she’ll listen to this, but big shout out to her because she helps our team, [00:19:00] more than anything of just staying organized and making, enrolling for classes and just adjustment to college very easy. So having her was a huge advantage. And, I can equate my academic success to her, but, just one thing with golf, too, is tournaments. You’re gone for four or five days at a time, during a week when you’re traveling for tournament. you’re missing class, you’re doing homework on the road, whereas other sports, let’s say football or basketball, you’re gone for a night or two, that was one of the biggest things I learned is just saying organized communicating with your professors and finding the balance of one when to practice golf and when to study so I always, I got into a very good routine in college, and just stuck with me. Jeff Pelizzaro: is it nice now that you don’t have all the classes and everything that you have to take? I would assume you probably feel like you have some more free time in [00:20:00] order to put the time into your training, your practice, those kind of things. And have you still maintained a pretty solid, regimented routine? Or do you find yourself almost being like, I’ve got… More time and trying to figure out how to really piece those things together to really get your plan together for the future Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, i’m glad you brought that up because honestly, that’s the thing i’m trying to Focus on right now and learn is what’s my routine and obviously it depends where you’re at up here in channel, it’s hard to get into routine because for me, I know you focus on the fitness side of golf, but that’s been very important for me in my routine and how I feel physically and mentally. so I’m trying to find a routine that works good for me and working out, nutrition, golf practice, and then my free time. The free time is the biggest. The biggest thing I’m trying to learn is just what am I going to do to fill that free time because you have a lot of it up here. and lucky to have a lot of guys up here to [00:21:00] be doing things with, but,I think having a routine is probably the most important thing. and if you talk to a lot of professional golfers, they’ll say the same. What does Jeff Pelizzaro: your fitness routine kind of look like right now? Obviously you guys don’t have The same kind of resources that the PGA Tour do. Do you have any kind of a trail or anything, or is it more local gyms that you guys have access to, those type of things? Tommy Kuhl: Correct. Yeah, the PGA Tour can actually gives us, they’ll have three gyms a week, maybe one that we have access to, but usually Those are for the guy. I’m able to use them, but a lot of guys do Airbnbs. I’ve been doing hotels, so I’ve been just working out in the hotel gym. Obviously, they’re not the best resources for, from the fitness side of things, but, I’m easy. I just find a way to, get my body moving and I like to just focus on more of the mobility side of things right now. I do a lot of stretching and mobility before I work out or, maybe the [00:22:00] Monday of the week just to, after travel, I like to get my body moving, the blood flowing and just like I said, just trying to find that routine, which, what works Jeff Pelizzaro: best for me. When you guys were at Illinois, was the physical training a big part of your season, or was that more, prior to, because obviously in season you’re traveling a lot, but, I assume you have a dedicated strength coach or trainer that’s helping you guys up there. Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: so we actually worked out, I want to say three times in the off season. we were in the gym mandatory, and then, In season, we were two days a week, but, for me, those were the, strength days. So I would go in, I would four or five times a week, on the other days and just get mobility work and get some cardio work in. And for me, as I mentioned, just the routine of it, I feel. best mentally when I get in, that rhythm of waking up early, going to the gym, and then I’m able to go to class and [00:23:00] practice. I just like to stick to what I like and what I know. So Jeff Pelizzaro: it’s working so far. So just keep dialing in that routine. Let’s take a little break here to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure is a hydration product. That you are going to want to have in your golf bag in your gym bag because it’s going to handle anything that you need When it comes to your hydration, it’s got the electrolytes you need It’s going to help replenish your system on the hot muggy days, which we’re already starting to have here a little bit in st Louis, but they’ve got the energy. They’ve got the hydrate and they’ve got the recovery They’re going to handle everything that you need whether you’re on the golf course. You’re in the gym. You’re sweating it out You want to make sure that you have live pure All you have to do is tear open one of the pre made little packs, dump it right in with the water, and you’re set. They’ve got incredible flavors, including making blue raspberry a flavor for all of the products. They’ve got you covered. So go to LivePur.com. That’s L I V P U [00:24:00] R. com. Use the code 18STRONG to get your discount on every order that you place. And use LivePur to champion your day. I wanna talk to, you had a little bit of, 15 minutes of fame recently. a couple of times actually. one was a bit of a situation that I think many people applauded you for in the US Open qualifier. So take me back to… to that event at Illini Country Club, is that right? correct. Yeah, so you, you shoot a course record in a qualify, U. S. Open qualifier, and, you take the story from there. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, U. S. Open local qualifying each year. It’s obviously every golfer’s dream to make the U. S. Open and compete, for a spot in that prestigious field. And, I had to go through the local process of it. And, a couple of teammates drove up there and, played a great round of golf. I shot bogey free nine under, My best run of the year and thought I had it. I thought I was in [00:25:00] One of my roommates was actually in a playoff to get the last spot and me and a couple teammates were walking Following him and I just mentioned to the guys like how hard it was to putt on the aerated greens You know the Midwest didn’t have a good spring as far as weather So a lot of the greens in the area weren’t Healed fully. and there were a few, or the greens were aerated and they weren’t filled in yet. The and I mentioned to one of my teammates how hard it was to put on the aerated greens and he mentioned, but yeah, it was hard ’cause you couldn’t fix ’em. And at that moment I honestly, I, it was the worst feeling ever. ’cause I, throughout the day I was fixing ’em and, didn’t know the rule. I didn’t know. with the new rule changes that you can, fix spike marks, tap down spike marks. I thought you could fix them, obviously, and you couldn’t, and, I went to rules official told him what I was doing throughout the day and Ultimately ended up dq’ing [00:26:00] myself. very unfortunate, but I tell people when they ask me You know, it comes down to me like nothing on the course nothing on the rules official nothing on the tournament i’m a golfer. This is what I do for a living. I should know the rules, so it falls on me. Yeah, it’s probably not the best rule, but that’s golf. That’s life. definitely learn from Jeff Pelizzaro: it. I can’t imagine that moment when that light bulb went off in your head and you’re like, just that sinking feeling of oh man, and I think myself, I remember sending you a text and I’m sure you got so many messages from other people like that. Just the integrity of that moment speaks so highly of your personality. but also just the game of golf itself, right? And that’s probably one of the reasons why you love this game why so many of us love this game and the fact that you did that i’m sure you got a lot of messages from people applauding that move You obviously got a lot of I had several articles written about it. What was that like, social media wise? Did you [00:27:00] get a lot of people reaching out to you and different interviews and things like that? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, I got so many people reaching out. It was almost very overwhelming and it was at a time right before we were starting, regionals. I had to shy away a couple interviews just because it was almost too much and I was focused on the team and making it to the national championship and winning the national championship. I answered a lot of people, but I just put it past me after a few days and I was just like, it happened, it’s in the past and let’s move on. But,I did have a lot of people reaching out and just, Sending their thoughts to me. I, and I told everyone it’s life, right? it’s on me. Let’s, definitely gonna learn from it. Jeff Pelizzaro: That’s awesome. And not only was it a, nine under round, that was a course record there, right? It Tommy Kuhl: was, yeah. So I don’t know if they kept it or not, but in my heart, in my head,I had the course record there. Hey, do you Jeff Pelizzaro: ever play there before? Tommy Kuhl: yeah, I’ve played there a couple times. [00:28:00] Gotcha. Yeah, and it’s a great course. And one thing with the media that I just was a little frustrated with was just a lot of it was towards a line at Country Club and, oh, they shouldn’t be aerating their greens. the matter of fact is every course has to aerate their greens for them to be healthy. it just, it was unfortunate, all the course in the area had the same problem. nothing on the line at Country Club. Great course, great venue for a local qualifier. Jeff Pelizzaro: so then not too long after that really, you had another pretty cool opportunity to play in your first, was this your first PGA Tour event, the John Deere Classic? Correct. Yeah, first one. And so how did that transpire? How did you get into the John Tommy Kuhl: Deere? the John Deere Classic does a great job of giving, young guys right out of college opportunities, to play. make… Make their first pj tour start obviously jordan spieth he was a winner at the John Deere classic as a young gun. And there’s been [00:29:00] Handful of illinois guys that have gotten the opportunity to play in the john Deere classic and start their pro career you know starting the year that was one of my goals that I had was Potentially get the sponsors exemption with john Deere classic and I knew that I had to you know Play well to get it. It wasn’t just going to be like I’m a local kid. They’re, hopefully they give it to me. I wanted to earn it. And, after I had a really good fifth year, at the University of Illinois, I sent in a letter and, they, they got back to me two weeks before the tournament and, it was pretty special moment for me and my caddy. Jeff Pelizzaro: Set the scene for us a little bit when you got there. What were the nerves like? What was, what did it feel like? and then tell us a little bit about how you played out there and how you feel like you performed on that stage. Tommy Kuhl: it was an incredible week. Obviously, it was my first PGA Tour event, so I didn’t really know what to expect. And I didn’t have many expectations going into the week. I actually missed the cut in [00:30:00] Canada the week before, so if I were to make the cut, which obviously I’ve, I’m never planning to miss the cut or hope for that, but it was almost a blessing in disguise of travel and getting there and just. Just the run I was on with tournaments, it almost worked out perfect that I could get down to Silvis, Quad Cities area on Sunday night, play nine holes on Sunday, and then practice around Monday, Tuesday, and then right into the tournament. what a week. a PGA Tour event, I quickly learned that this is the lifestyle I want to live and, it’s always going to be in the back of my mind just being there and with the fans and how tour events are set up. that’s what’s going to keep pushing me, to make it there. And, I’m glad I got the opportunity to compete. to compete there. And, just, and the support I had, it’s it was an hour and 20 minutes from my hometown, and central Illinois. And the amount of people I had out there supporting me, it was,pretty special. It just put in, put everything [00:31:00] into perspective of how lucky I am to first off be playing this game, but also how many people there are behind me supporting me and,helping me Jeff Pelizzaro: reach my goal. So unfortunately you didn’t make a cut, but how do you feel like you played? How do you feel like you, you stacked up to the competition out there? Tommy Kuhl: yeah, so I shot one under the first round, even the second round. Looking at the stats, I want to say I was, I think I was 8 strokes gained approach, which is a crazy good stat, which is not good, given the fact I didn’t make the cut, which means I didn’t make many putts, which I didn’t, that was frustrating, but,I felt like I played fairly well, T to green. and I felt pretty comfortable out there. Obviously, the first two nerves were there and just getting comfortable out there. but, I felt like I belonged. it was a pretty cool feeling, almost an addictive feeling being out there. And, just what an incredible Jeff Pelizzaro: experience. What would you say are the big strengths of your game? And [00:32:00] then, are there any things that being out there that you saw throughout the couple of days? This is what I really need to work on or that I see these guys doing this or that and you know We talked about the process and routine or there’s certain things that you took away from that you know Like all right. This is why I got to step up. This is where I’m actually pretty darn good Tommy Kuhl: huh. I my strengths are always ball striking I’ve always been a really good ball striker to the green and great long iron player, great driver of the golf ball. But I learned if you want to compete out there, make cuts, make a living. It all comes down to short game. and coach Smalls preached that to me for five years. and,I’m still working on it. that’s the biggest thing I learned out there is everyone can hit the ball, far or straight. It comes down to, Short game, wedges, getting up and down, making putts, and not a lot of stuff people see. Everyone gets, goes crazy about the 350 yard drive someone hit, but they don’t look at the small things that, that it takes to win out there. And,moving forward, I think that’s the biggest thing I need to work on if I want to compete out there. [00:33:00] Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, man, we just saw, what, last week at the Open Championship, Ryan Harmon, his putter was just… Incredible. Incredible. Tommy Kuhl: Yep. That’s what it comes down to is, and I think if you look at each week, the statistics on. The guys who went out there, they’re going to be top 10 in putting. It all comes down to putting. especially, with the scores they’re shooting now, it’s 20 plus under to win. And you just got to be making putts. You can’t be shooting those scores and Jeff Pelizzaro: not making them. What are a couple putting drills that you can give the 18STRONG crew that you’re working on or even short game stuff? do you have I’m sure you have tons of games you play any good ones that are pretty simple to describe and That anybody can go out to their own local putting green do the Tommy Kuhl: biggest thing I’m trying to learn with putting and talking to people just out on tour and coaches, making putting as athletic as possible, nowadays with coaching and [00:34:00] stuff, people can get so technical with putting, where the putter’s aimed, how my stroke is, what’s the perfect stroke. the matter of fact is everyone’s going to be stroking a different you, you look at. Some of the best putters on tour, they don’t do it conventionally at all, so right now for me Focusing on I use a chalk line. that’s one drill. I like for my alignment with my putter face where I feel comfortable alignment wise, and just starting the ball in line. I like to do that before, I tee off, the days leading up to the tournament. but other than that, just picking a target and reacting to that. It’s just people make the, the comparison, the shooting a free throw. it’s essentially the same thing. You have your routine, and do that every time, and having no expectations when you puff. Jeff Pelizzaro: Speaking of coaching,growing up, did you have a coach that you worked with a long time? Do you still, are you still working with a coach? what does that look like, especially with you traveling and everything? Everything’s a little bit more [00:35:00] remote these days. where are you there? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, I’ve worked with a bunch of people, a couple guys, obviously Brian Fogt, who you know, and, St. Louis guy, B Fogt’s the man, and, I still am in very good contact with, B Fogt, and, whenever I’m down in St. Louis, I love to go see him, and he helps me a lot. with my golf swing and he did growing up, but, not really working with anyone fully, there’s a couple of guys in the Champaign area, that have helped me obviously coach small and some guys, Chris Harder at Urbana Country Club has helped me a lot with my golf swing, but, I’m more of a field player, I don’t like to get too technical in my golf swing. yeah. just figure it out when I’m struggling by myself. Jeff Pelizzaro: And, yeah, I know, Coach Small obviously has a wealth of knowledge. Does he get into much instruction with you guys or do a lot of the guys already have their own coaches that they’re working with? And is that a bit of a balance there? Yeah, Tommy Kuhl: a lot of the guys come into school with swim coaches that they’ve worked with their whole life. and [00:36:00] he jumps in when he, when the When a player asks him to I wouldn’t say he forces himself in there But he does a lot of coaching on the short game side of things chipping he’s very knowledgeable with that and obviously the full swing too. He knows more than I can even wrap my head around But like I said, he’s not gonna tell you something if he doesn’t think it’s gonna help you So I think he Honestly, balance is perfect with his players, of when to help him with fundamentals and stuff like that. I Jeff Pelizzaro: know he’s a big, he’s really big on process. We had Dylan Meyer on the show a while back and he talked a lot about how, Coach Small is so big on process, and falling in love with the process, right? Knowing that he’s coaching all of these different athletes that have their own personal coaches. What would you say is his biggest role and where does he shine as far as, honestly, he’s one of the top coaches of all time in collegiate golf. what are the things that make it, him so special and make that program so special? Tommy Kuhl: I think the biggest thing [00:37:00] about coaching, what makes him so good is just how competitive he is. I think in any sport, that’s what it takes is just that competitive side, that competitive fire and,just going out there, giving it your all. And one thing I tell people is he sets the culture, he sets a very high standard in the culture. of the University of Illinois and he recruits players who buy in, if it’s, how we work in the weight room, how we work in our studies, how we treat people, how we go about our business, how we play golf. We’re gonna, he holds us to a high standard, and if we’re not doing it well, we’re gonna, we’re gonna hear about it. I think that’s what makes him, him so good. from a mental side of things and just, it’s not just golf, it’s everything. it’s how you carry yourself. And, as soon as I started to realize that, I started to see results and it’s crazy. You don’t even, you don’t even know it. and you’re playing better golf and you’re like, but it’s crazy. I wouldn’t trade my experience at the University of [00:38:00] Illinois for anything. he’s the best coach in the country for a reason. And, I think, I can’t speak highly enough about him and his role in my success. Jeff Pelizzaro: What about goal setting? going into your season, maybe this is something you guys did at Illinois as well and built on. Are you one of those kind of guys that sets goals specifically for yourself? I know, year in, year out, we’ll see Justin Thomas every now and then post, what his goals for the year were and whether he made them or didn’t make them. Is that kind of a process that you go through? Or is yours a little more loose or a little more tight and strategic? How do you go through that? And maybe what are the goals for, the end of this season and even looking Tommy Kuhl: into 24? Yeah, so yeah, I’m always goal oriented. I set my goals very high. I think anyone should, but,in college, I obviously set my goals, very high of playing well, a couple awards that I wanted to win, obviously first team all American, team goals, winning national champion, stuff like that. But I like to focus on process [00:39:00] goals. I think those are Jeff Pelizzaro: what Tommy Kuhl: are almost yeah. More important, what can I do to better myself to, to reach those goals? I’d say the process goals are something I like to focus on Jeff Pelizzaro: more. Can you give us an example of what that might look like? Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, so for example, let’s say,short game or putting, Statistically, we track our stats. Let’s say my putting stats weren’t all that I wanted. a process goal for me would be, so many three or four footers a day. Let’s, focus on alignment, speed, things like that. And ultimately, hopefully if you do the right things in those process goals, it’ll work out in the end goal. just little things like Jeff Pelizzaro: that. And then any, anything in regard to,how many tournaments you’re going to play a year, where are you going to be at the end of 24, or is it simply more, as long as I stick to the process, as long as I’m doing the things, in the gym, on the practice screen, on the drive range, on the golf course, I know that, that stuff will come. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah, you know what, as I’m, as I’ve turned professional, obviously I’m setting my [00:40:00] goals the same that I did in college, obviously I want to focus on PGA Tour Canada, what I can do up here and getting top five on the points list, getting my Korn Ferry Tour card and, just going from there, I think right now, obviously I have the end goal of making the PGA Tour and winning on the PGA Tour, but I need to focus on now and that’s PGA Tour Canada. Kind of just focusing on each week what I can do, you know The little things that we talked about and in my process goals Each week out here that coach preached to me every day and just focusing on those things and I know if I do Those every day, give it my all You know, at least I can look back and be like, at least I did the right things Jeff Pelizzaro: great answer All right, buddy. We’re gonna wrap it up with some of the questions. We ask everybody that comes on the show first one, I want to know, you’re obviously a different generation than I am. Are you more of a Candy Shack guy or more of a Happy Gilmore Tommy Kuhl: guy? Happy Gilmore. Happy Gilmore guy. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is that one that you have on repeat? do you guys, as a team, did you ever watch any of those kind of movies? [00:41:00] Tommy Kuhl: We’d turn it on here and there, but, I, honestly, I haven’t seen it too much. but, I always get a good laugh out of Adam Sandler and some of his lines in, in, in that movie. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if you could pick a walk up song to the first T Box. what’s your walk up song? Tommy Kuhl: I gotta go with Country, Morgan Wong, huge Morgan Wong guy, his new album, Sunrise. PGA Tour Canada asked me the same question, and I gave him the same answer. his new song, Sunrise, it’s a perfect vibe for me and my Midwest, Jeff Pelizzaro: Are you, are you a music on the golf course kind of guy when you’re out with your buddies? Or are you a little bit more… Tommy Kuhl: I’m not a big mus I love music, but once I’m on the course, I think just the peace and quiet of being out there and hearing the, sound of the club hitting the ball and just everything around you. that’s big for me, so I don’t really like listening to music on Jeff Pelizzaro: the course. Is there a book that you’ve read, that has inspired you or really given you some insights and something that you [00:42:00] might recommend that other people in the 18th Strong Crew check Tommy Kuhl: out? Yeah,I’m trying to get into reading more. I think it’s a big thing and I always love learning. One of, one of the books, I think a lot of golfers have read and one that helped me a lot is Golfers, Not a Game of Perfect. it’s by Bob Rotella, one of the most famous sports psychologists and such an easy read for a golfer wanting, to get… better and strive to be better. And, he just gives you a good insight on, the mental side of the game. some of some, he draws connections between some of the best players in the world. what goes through their head and, and I think the title is just says it all golf is not a game. Perfect. And it’s not great read and I’d recommend it to any golfer. Jeff Pelizzaro: Alright, if you could pick a dream foursome, and this could be celebrities, this could be influential figures, but basically a foursome that you would love to go spend four or five hours with, pick their brains and learn from, or just spend the time with, who’s [00:43:00] that? Tommy Kuhl: I’d have to go Tiger Woods, he’s a true competitor. obviously one of the greatest to ever do it. he, I’d have to throw him in there. Patrick Mahomes. quarterback. new documentary out on Netflix. It’s quarterback. I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet, but I Jeff Pelizzaro: haven’t seen it yet. No, I’ve heard good things. Tommy Kuhl: I’d check it out. after watching that, I got to throw him in there because it’s crazy to just see the type of competitor he is too and how bad he wants it, how high he sets his goals, how high his standard is. definitely throw him in there, and then, I’d throw Michael Jordan in there as well. He’s all, true competitors, and it’s what you want. Jeff Pelizzaro: A solid group of highly competitive dudes, that’s for sure. Yeah, exactly. Alright, is there a bucket list course that, if I told you, Tommy, we’re, we’ve got the 18STRONG G4 fueled up, we’re ready to go, we’re coming to pick you up, what golf course are we going to?[00:44:00] Tommy Kuhl: I’d say Pine Valley, out east, in New Jersey. I love that style of golf. That’s obviously Chicago has some of the best golf in the world, and so does, the east part, of the country. I’d say Pine Valley. Never played it. Always been a dream of mine to play there. if you have that jet fueled up, I’d say, Jeff, we’re heading out there to, for a quick Jeff Pelizzaro: 18. Sounds good. Sounds good. Alright, what’s the best piece of golf advice you’ve ever been given? Tommy Kuhl: coach always says golf owes you nothing. I think you got to go out and you got to earn it each and every day. and that’s something that’s stuck with me is, and it’s true. Golf does owe me nothing. I got to go put in the work each and every day and, create my own. Own blueprint of what, my story is going to look like and how I’m going to get there. I’m just, I think that’s one thing that’s stuck with me. Jeff Pelizzaro: And last one, is there a social media account, could be golf, could be fitness, could be kind of anything that you follow that you think is worth [00:45:00] agents for our crew checking out? Tommy Kuhl: I’d say one really cool social media account, that I follow is Monday Q info. I don’t know if you follow them on Twitter, but I think they give a group, the guy gives a, Great insight of what professional golf’s what mini tour life’s what, any professional golf tournament’s some of the stories from his content is pretty cool, and he just gives you a great, overview on professional golf. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, Ryan’s, he breaks a lot of the stories that end up coming out, stories like yours, from those kind of tournaments that don’t get the publicity that, Might from a golf magazine or golf digest or something, but then, he’s able to put it out because he’s got the inside track. totally. Yeah. Tommy Kuhl: When you hear some of the stories of just guys who, who don’t have much and who grind it out and get the opportunity to play and take advantage of it. It’s pretty cool just to see, some of the stories. Jeff Pelizzaro: For sure. All right, buddy. Where can everybody go to, to find you, follow your journey? Obviously, the 18STRONG Crew is going to [00:46:00] be backing and supporting you as you move forward and looking forward to you making it on the PGA Tommy Kuhl: Tour. Yeah, yeah, obviously, social media, I’m on social media, Instagram, Twitter, but hopefully, you guys can be following me on the PGA Tour app and climb my way up from PGA Tour Canada to Korn Ferry to PGA Tour and hopefully see my name on that number one on that PGA Tour app here in the next couple Jeff Pelizzaro: years. Absolutely, and that’s K U H L for you guys. K U H L, yeah. great golf name. Ever since I met you when you were, When did that, when did we first meet? Were you like 14, 15, something like that? Tommy Kuhl: I was probably, yeah, like 15 or 16, when I came down to St. Louis to, to see B Fogt. I stopped over to see you and we create, we created a great relationship and, I really respect You know what you and your team does over at 18STRONG. obviously your guys’ content’s great And you guys are the best in the business for a reason. Looking forward to working you guys working with you guys here in the next you know in the future and You [00:47:00] know decide to build this brand because like I said best in the business. Jeff Pelizzaro:  I appreciate that brother and and i’ve been saying since you were 15 years old or whenever you came in I remember telling my cousin Ryan, my circle of friends, like this kid is phenomenal. But what a great name for a golfer, Tommy cool, like cool as ice, cool under pressure. we’re rooting for you, we’re in your corner, bud, and, I know you’re going to do great things. You’re going to, you’re going to do some big time things on the PGA tour. So we’re looking forward to being part of that journey. Tommy Kuhl: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me. And, hopefully see you soon. Absolutely. Alrighty. Thanks Jeff. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18STRONG podcast with our buddy Tommy Kuhl. It’s gonna be really fun to see him grow and see him realize his dream on the PGA Tour. If you want any more information on Tommy or this episode just go to 18strong. com. This is episode number 349. We’ll catch up again with you with another great guest next week. Train hard, practice smart, and play [00:48:00] better golf. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to LivPur.com (or click the logo above) and use the code “18STRONG“. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)

Guest: Scott Stallings, three-time PGA Tour winner Host: Jeff Pelizzaro Episode Number: 347 Podcast: The 18 Strong Podcast Summary: Dive into this episode of the 18STRONG Podcast as we explore the world of professional golf with Scott Stallings, a three-time PGA Tour winner. We delve into Scott’s triumphant return to the Masters, his outstanding performance during the 2021 and 2022 seasons, and his unique fitness regimen that keeps him at the top of his game. Scott also shares his love for bourbon and challenges listeners with a 10-minute workout that requires no equipment. Main Topics Scott’s Return to the Masters Experience the thrill of the Masters through Scott’s eyes as he returns to the prestigious tournament after a seven-year hiatus. Learn about the importance of family in Scott’s journey and the challenges he faced playing in varying weather conditions. Scott’s Incredible Season in 2021 and 2022 Discover the strategies and planning that led to Scott’s successful seasons in 2021 and 2022, which ultimately led to his return to the Masters. Scott’s Fitness Regimen and Mental Game Gain insights into Scott’s fitness regimen that helps him maintain peak performance. Learn about the mental aspects of golf, and how Scott manages pressure and expectations. Scott’s Love for Bourbon Explore Scott’s passion for bourbon and get a glimpse into his impressive collection. Scott’s 10-Minute Workout Challenge Take on Scott’s 10-minute workout challenge that you can do anywhere, with no equipment needed. Are you up for the challenge? Resources Mentioned Linksoul – The preferred brand of apparel for golfers. Use the code “18STRONG” for a 20% discount. Conclusion In this episode, Scott Stallings takes us on a journey through his return to the Masters, his successful seasons, and his fitness regimen. He also reveals his love for bourbon and challenges listeners to a 10-minute workout. Tune in to the 18STRONG Podcast to hear more about Scott’s experiences and insights. Want the full episode transcript? (click the “+” ????????) Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:00:00] The 18STRONG podcast, episode number 347 with three time PGA Tour winner, Scott Stalling. What’s up guys? Welcome back to the 18STRONG Podcast where we know the stronger we are, the better we play. I’m your host, Jeff ero, and this is your first time listening to the 18STRONG Podcast. This is a show about golf, about fitness, and really about stories and experiences and guests that can come on and help us all play at our best play at our strongest, and this week the guest is no exception. We have Scott Stallings three time PGA Tour winner. Most people think when you hear the term golf fitness or a P PGA tour golfer that is. The epitome of golf and fitness. Most people will say Scott Stallings. He’s kinda become that guy in the world of professional golf. this week we get a chance to talk to Scott about everything. We talk about his return to the masters, after not being there since 2014. We talk about him having such an incredible season in [00:01:00] 21 and 22, which ultimately is what got him back to the masters. We talk fitness, we talk his mental game regimen, we talk his bourbon collection. I found out that he’s a big bourbon guy. So we discussed that a little bit. And then we have a segment at the end of the show that’s a little bit new that we call our crew NA section. So we had questions from our crew, the 18th strong community that were posed on social media and via email that we put out to Scott too. And then a last little surprise, Scott gives us a little bit of homework. 18th Strong is all about being actionable, taking steps to getting better at this game, getting your fitness ready so you can play your best golf. So I asked Scott to put together a little workout for us. So Scott’s gonna go through a little 10 minute workout that you can do anywhere, no equipment, and we’re gonna challenge the crew a little bit to do this workout and post some results. So before we jump into our episode with Scott Stall, and I just wanna say a quick thanks to our partners over at linzel. Linzel is our preferred brand of apparel, [00:02:00] whether we’re on the golf course, off the golf course, and I have a very cool surprise. Not really surprised, but very cool announcement that Linzel is now and has been for the last several months at least. They have a whole line of female apparel now. So I know that my wife has really been like, Lacking on being able to get on the links, all board, on the links, all train, because they didn’t have a whole lot of women’s apparel. And now they do. They’ve got all kinds of tank tops, sweats, a lot of leisure wear and comfortable clothes, just like the stuff that they have for us. Now they’ve got it for the ladies. So go ahead and get your wife a gift. I know that, mother’s Day has just passed, but never too late to share the link. Soul Love with the ladies. So in order to get your discount, go to 18STRONG.com/link Soul. You can click through, you’re gonna get 20% off of anything that you put in your cart, and go ahead and get yourself something while you’re there. So again, 18STRONG.com/link Soul. All right, let’s jump into our conversation with Scott Stallings. Jeff Pelizzaro: [00:03:00] Scott, welcome back to the show, man. Scott Stallings: Nice. I’m glad. the wonders of technology never cease. happy to be here. Jeff Pelizzaro: It’s finally good to get the, the Internet’s working here. It’s crazy, man. hey, I wanna start out with, I know you’ve probably had so many questions about, the whole debacle with the masters invite and everything, but I wanna touch base on you. Just going back to the Masters this year, after, I believe it was 2014, that was the last time you were there. What did it mean to you to be able to get back on the grounds, be there again, and be able to play in the Masters again? Scott Stallings: it was a incredible experience. I think that, at any person in my position, at this point in my career with my kids and everything, like I wanted, no matter, I didn’t know when it was, I just wanted to be able to participate in the tournament and have my family be able to experience it with me. That Wednesday, the part three, that’s prob that was probably my favorite day in golf in my career. I have no idea what I shot. I did not make a hole in one. I [00:04:00] watched Shamus make two hole in ones back to back. I watched Scotty Shuffler slide in the hole on the ninth hole, and he’s my son’s favorite player. and just the all-encompassing of like golf at a absolute best and family, just everything coming in together to celebrate the, the full golf and full swing. And, the masters kicks off golf season for everybody. And even though we’ve been playing for a long time, and just for my family and my kids to be old enough to remember and look back, it’s that’s a day hopefully we’ll never forget. and we’re, I have the picture of, this was when my son was, he was 14 months old. When he was at the master’s there, I adjust my screen where you see the little better. Yeah, I can see it in the left hand corner there. Yeah. But,so we’ve got some new pictures to be able to replace that. And, that’s probably my favorite, golf picture I’ve ever seen. I’m biased, obviously it’s my kid, but just all, everything about it and what it is in its purest form. the tournament was great. I felt very fortunate to get opportunity to play the weekend. struggled coming down [00:05:00] the stretch on Friday with some of that crazy weather that happened, the starting the stopping. just sorta at the wrong place in the course, at the wrong time with the weather. And, but was fortunate enough to get at some tee times on the weekend and I felt like I took advantage of them. I played a really good round on, had to go back out on Saturday and play. It meant it was brutal out there. the course that we saw on Thursday and Friday was not the course that we saw on Saturday. it was tough. I hit wedge and Gap wedge into, 17 on, I hit on Thursday or Friday and Saturday morning I hit seven wood. Oh my gosh. it was a lot different, but battled, able to work my way up to the leaderboard. Obviously feel like I, I left a few out there, like everybody probably feels the same way, but, being in the situation, it was a great week to be out there and, just deal with it, battle it at, the best golf tournament in the world. And so it was a awesome week for me and my family. Jeff Pelizzaro: How many holes did you have [00:06:00] to get out and play on Scott Stallings: Sunday? I had to play, had to play 10, so 28 holes, I deploy. I start, we, they gave us the option to tee off on 18 on Saturday, and it was, dead in, off the left at 45 degrees. And,just full rain. And I was like, we’ll see you tomorrow. We’re good. We’re good? Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: when you came out Sunday morning was, was it still cold? Was it still windy or was it dramatically different than Saturday? Scott Stallings: dramatically different. Honestly. I’m not sure where my drive would’ve gone on Saturday. because it was raining so hard. me, I was playing, with Charles Schwartel and we were just laughing as far as what the clubs that we were considering hitting off 18 because not none of us could hit a drive straight, just because the, there were so low spin and the, you couldn’t keep the ball dry. just like balls were going everywhere. So it was still chilly, but meant very manageable and it ended up [00:07:00] being an incredible afternoon. being able to play and, fairly. Mundane conditions compared to what we dealt with on Friday afternoon and Saturday. Jeff Pelizzaro: What, there’s a lot of talk about the course changes and obviously 13 was different. Did that play a big role in scores that weekend or just how you approached the course at all, or was it not that big of a deal? Scott Stallings: I think it, when the weather was as it was on Friday and Saturday, it was a layup like that. Was it like you, I don’t know, maybe some guys early in the day or whatever. But there was no, I, no one that I saw was getting there. so I think there, it made some of the, if you were in the, the process of going for the green, it probably made the decision and the shot execution a little bit more difficult because the ball lays in up slope as far as where the ball’s significantly above your feet. But it also makes it a lot easier to lay up too. It takes the indecision cause I hit three good drives and [00:08:00] one drive in the hazard on Thursday. I hit the top of the tree and came down, went in the hazard. I went twice. one was successful, one was not successful. But it’s just such a awkward shot from that length of distance with the ball so far above your feet to a green that really you don’t want to be left of. But obviously you can’t be right of it either. I bet in normal dry conditions, the ball kind of gets a little bit further out there and it creates that yardage where you’re definitely going for the green, but you have to deal where in years past guys were able to drive it past that second hill into a flatter spot, which made the whole significantly easier. It brought the slopes of the fairway way more at the play. What Jeff Pelizzaro: kind of shot is it, like distance wise and what club would you normally be hitting there Scott Stallings: if you were to go for it? it’s just kinda depending on pin location and stuff. Let’s just say like a normal wind, somewhere between like that, like 230, 240 down to 200. one of the practice station was straight down wind and the pin [00:09:00] was middle right. And I had, I hit eight iron, but that’s like perfect scenario down off the right, like high ball kind of pulling a little bit and it’s perfect. maybe some of the longer guys would hit it a little bit further than that. But it’s just amazing you, the line you could take from that up tee when the downwind was so much further left that you could take it just because the trees on the line now, like you can’t carry all of them no matter whether it’s down or not. Jeff Pelizzaro: You had a monster year in 2021-2022, season, and that obviously is why you got into the Masters. Just for people that don’t know, what are the qualifications that do get you back into that tournament every year? Scott Stallings: I got in, based off of making it to East Lake and competing in the tour championship. So that’s the ultimate prize that, the carrot that dangled at the end of the season. And, something we’re, striving for a chance to compete for the FedEx Cup at the very end of the year and, had a really solid regular season. super disappointed with the way that [00:10:00] I played at FedEx. I just did not drive the ball in the fairway like I needed to, to be able to play. The course, that’s probably one of my favorites. On tour, I shot, I think I shot one over, shot two over one under something like that. And because I felt like I was playing great and just didn’t really execute very well off the tee and had a couple practice days there in Memphis, made my way up to B M W,where, up in Delaware where we played Wilmington and the, we played a practice round in my, I’m like, I’m just figuring out different ways to just not like this course in my Cady and, hunter, the guy that we work with from a stats standpoint is just like putting it all together and he’s man, I think you can play great here. I don’t know if they were, if they necessarily believed it at the time, but whatever. But I’m like, man, we played our first practice round. It was windy and cool and we played it all the way back and I was just hammering four irons into these greens and I’m like, [00:11:00] man, you just can’t hit four irons into these holes and all this and that. And just progressively, as the weather shifted and the course played a little bit more like they had in mind, I started to see what my guys were saying. You play a lot of shots out of the middle of the bag, which, predominantly is the best part of my game. and there’s a few holes you just have to manage. be disciplined, have a good attitude, and go out there and take what the kind of course gives you. But then you have a good spot, especially the par threes that are in that, 60, 75, 200 range, which is, that’s where I’ve been able to stay out here for as long as I have to be able to do that pretty well. So it was a great week. Patrick clip me by one and then it, pushed me into Atlanta for the Tour Championship, which opened up a lot of opportunities for this year. Yeah. So when you do Jeff Pelizzaro: make that top 30, to go to East Lake, you get in all the majors, the players championship. what are some of the other perks that you guys get? Because I, like you said, that is the big carrot at the Scott Stallings: end of the season. [00:12:00] Yeah, it was, all the majors,player championship, invitationals, Kapalua, and then they added it on this year where you were a two, you were given a two year exemption. Oh, okay. For making it. So it was definitely a needless to say it was a big deal. Yeah. Jeff Pelizzaro: I would imagine just even scheduling wise, knowing that you’re in those, the majors for sure, Kapalua, all that stuff. how important is that to know that stuff a year ahead of time for you to be able to plan things around for the next year? Scott Stallings: It was funny, we had this conver, I did another podcast and we were just talking about just the planning aspect of how far out you need to do that. And I played the open at Hoylake, Royal Liverpool. We were playing, in, when Rory won in 2014. And I was, I was literally like the last guy in the field and my caddie and I joked that we stayed in, basically, we stayed in a different country. it was so long to get to the course based off of where we stayed. And you’re not driving, [00:13:00] you’re using a shuttle. And I remember going, I had like a. we were like first out and it was, seven o’clock or whatever, and we’re getting picked up at three 30 because we gotta drive like way far away to get to the course. And I remember driving to the golf course and I see these guys walk outta their houses, like right across the street from the course, like coffee, gym shorts. And I’m like, I am messing up something here. Cause this guy I have, we have not hit a shot and he’s five shots ahead of me. So the ability to plan and work on those things has been,a good opportunity and, gave it still like a good, a leg up and make the, plan your schedule around. I’m currently in two weeks off, took off, Vita and Wells Fargo as far as building up my schedule to know that basically after this stretch I’m home one week until August. I wouldn’t have had that freedom, to be able to do that. you try to find opportunities to be able to take two weeks off and at some point in the season, and this is my only opportunity based [00:14:00] off course fit preference, all the different things that kind of go along with that. it’s gonna be a big stretch, but it’s also something that I plan for and,some courses that really fit my eye in places. I feel like I have an opportunity to play well and compete and, look forward to being able to do that, here the remainder of the season. Yeah. the Jeff Pelizzaro: Wells Fargo, that’s one of the elevated events, right? And so I would imagine that’s a big decision to decide to take that off and, apparently is that one that just doesn’t suit your eye, even though last time you said that you came in second place at the BMW Scott Stallings: Championship. last time I played Wells Fargo, I was in the second to last group on Sunday. It really struggled. But I had a game plan throughout the course of the week that just made me look at the course a little bit differently. But my career best finished there, I think is 32nd. and the field was relatively weak, based off the, strength of field. And obviously this field will be very strong. and Byron Nelson and I’ve had the opportunity to win twice, of course that I like much better. [00:15:00] and just opportunity, you start thinking of FedEx cut points. I think, the financial incentive of elevated events is obviously a huge indicator for a lot of people. But,a course fit and, understanding that an extra week off in the grand scheme of things, for me to feel like I’m obligated to go play a place that doesn’t necessarily fit, what I like to see, especially off a t, I like it for about two and a half days, and then I stop the ability to be able to cut my irons and start just hitting big draws. And when I have to feel like I play, like that is where my game just goes to struggle. And so I can hang in there for a little bit and then as soon as that ball stops falling right, it, those left pins really start looking better and that thing starts slinging over. It’s oh my gosh, I feel like it takes me a month. I feel like it takes me like a month to get out of it. Jeff Pelizzaro: what has your thought been about, just the changes of the season this year with the elevated events, you think that things are working out well and then I know there’s some big changes coming next year. what are your thoughts there?[00:16:00] Scott Stallings: I think probably it, it, Liv pushed the tour to make some changes. They were planning on doing probably faster than they were wanting to the FedEx Cup and all that stuff. And, I feel like we get it to a good spot where people generally understand the FedEx Cup and what, whatever it is. And then we go a couple years where we don’t have any real turmoil and then all of a sudden we just had to change it, where not even the players really understand what’s happening. so I don’t know if that’s an overreaction or under reaction. I’m not in those meetings, but from a player’s perspective, it seems like the idea of, there’s two tours in one now. Essentially they’re creating three. And as a player that’s been at some point in my career, in all phases of those. To go from one to the next was difficult, but from go to two or one, which would be the newcomers, Korn Ferry guys. And to be able to go to that top tier, fully elevated, 700 point events, 20 million persons like to crack your way into [00:17:00] those out of the tournaments that those guys have an opportunity for. It seems very hard to get into, but also very hard to get out of because that’s the only tournaments you’re playing, your world ranking stabilizes. your FedEx Cup point allotment is so much higher and so your ability to play your way in some guy that came from. That newer category of tour player to that upper echelon, that guy has played incredible. And obviously they’ll be somebody that does that. the new crop of players are incredibly talented, but it, it does seem a little one-sided. and, but it goes to show that the financial incentive from a lot of things, is not necessarily the driving force for certain people. We saw Rory, miss out on Harbortown and, basically, forfeited 3 million bucks. I think that’s, that’s something that people look at as far as him being the driving force. Rory and I get along very well. and would, it could honestly could not say a bad thing about him, but when you start to look out from that [00:18:00] perspective,if it’s that easy to take, tournaments away, that basically you were given a. just by competing in the event, we’re guaranteed the full value of your PIP bonus. I think that it’s just more the opportunity to create that competitive environment for that many weeks as sponsors and different things can go along to it instead of just people are just looking at the pure financial aspect of it. And I think that’s where people see the money from Liv and the Elevated and start to look at it instead of like, why are we doing this instead of starting to see at it. Obviously there’s financial incentives in a lot of things that we do, but I think that is the, gets picked up by the media instead of the players as far as what we look at. It’s and we wanna play and compete against the best. and that’s something that,I think somewhat gets overlooked when everyone just focuses on the financial part. Jeff Pelizzaro: Is that something, just the whole scenario, is it something that the PGA tour really sits down and listens to you guys? I would imagine there’s a big contingent of you guys, players association and you guys are all discussing this in the locker rooms and there’s [00:19:00] lots of talks going on. Is it something that you guys come to the table and discuss or is it a little bit top down, this is what we’re Scott Stallings: doing? Yeah, it’s very top down, very much, after the fact. but to be honest, those guys have earned the opportunity to be a driving, driving force in the game. And, I’d be lying if I said I didn’t benefit from the opportunity of them, staying with their,loyalty to the tour and helping push it in the direction that it is currently. I’m not naive to that fact. I do think that they’re the way that the schedule and the things are played out, I think there’s. Maybe some things that are being overlooked. I think the fall schedule and looking back to early parts of my career when the fall banded together to be a part of the FedEx Cup and, to get some insulation and coverage from benefiting of being a FedEx Cup event, rather than when it was just the fall by itself. I think those tournaments have fought really hard to be very relevant, and have huge impacts on guys starting to the [00:20:00] season and now, I think it’ll be pretty wild to see how those tournaments are affected as far as, what kind of fields, opportunities, sponsor obligations and where the interest falls. I don’t think anyone really knows the answer. but I, it’ll be very interesting to see,what that plays out, coming forward, especially with the schedule once after the playoffs are over. Gotcha. Jeff Pelizzaro: As far as your personal goals for this season is are they something that you sit down and say okay, this year I want to, like East Lake is my goal, or are there different levels of your goals short-term, long-term? And do you sit down with a team or do you sit down, just in a quiet room by yourself and put these things on paper? Scott Stallings: A little bit of both. I remember I played with Sahi, Sala at. East Lake and he was griping. We played together on Sunday and he is the absolutely fantastic dude. and he was just getting a little bit chirpy. He was not necessarily hitting it what he is capable of. And I said, ma’am, I one thing to think about if you’re gonna play bad, he might as well play bad here. And [00:21:00] he just looked at it. I said, man, you’re a rookie and you made the tour championship. And he just looked at me and just started buying laughing. He goes, man, I never thought of it that way. but you don’t know what you’re missing until you have the opportunity to experience. And obviously East Lake and everything that came with it and all the stuff that the tour has done to create such a incentive to be a part of that event as far as everything that comes with it. And it was just very, eye-opening to man, this is something that I knew that I needed to strive hard to be here. But now even more, it’s here we go. Obviously it goes to that same, being a part of that event and all that comes to. but you have to, it doesn’t just happen in one week now, the seven, the big thing from 1 25 to seven is a huge difference. So consistent play throughout the course of the year, you have to accumulate week in and week out. I haven’t necessarily capitalized on Sundays as well as I should have. with that kind of being said, there’s a lot of opportunity to come with it being forward, but,I want that feeling. I want the opportunity coming down the stretch [00:22:00] on Sunday and see what I’m working with and, manage the emotion, anxiety and all that stuff that comes along with it and, have a chance to compete for a title and,I feel like I’m making the steps in the right direction to be able to do that. With your Jeff Pelizzaro: two weeks off here, what does this kinda look like? I’m sure it’s great to be home and be able to chill out, hang with the family, prep wise, do you take a little downtime? The first. Part of the time that you’re home, what do,what’s the schedule like? Are you pretty regimented with the schedule for these two weeks? Scott Stallings: Trying to do as much as I can, and basically from my time my kids are taking us, we, we take them to school and by the time we pick ’em up, I’ve got two young kids, seven and 10, and they’re full going extra school’s over with soccer, gymnastics, lacrosse, all these different things. So I wanna be as much of their lives outside of school as I possibly can. So that sort of dictates what happens, afternoon, morning, this and that. But, being that’s two weeks off, I train a little bit different,[00:23:00] than I normally do and practice a little bit different where, when one week off, I try to touch, each and every part of my game in a little bit, part of the fitness aspect, throughout the course of the week. And there may be like major focuses, but you’re still doing like the little things each and every day just to maintain wherein two weeks off, you can try to take bigger chunks and focus on and compartmentalize different parts of your game, different parts of fitness to be able to get the most opportunity to benefit from the most amount of time I’m gonna have for the remainder of the year. Jeff Pelizzaro: I saw a couple videos showing off the, the suite in that you guys put into your, at your house, and so you’ve got pretty much everything you need there. What do your workouts look like maybe this week, next week? we post on social media and we’ve got some questions from our crew later on, but so many people, obviously, this guy, you’re known as the fitness guy on the tour and people ever wanna know, what is Scott Stallings doing in his workout? What’s he doing when he is home? What’s he doing when he is on the tour? So what’s this look this week look like for you? Is it [00:24:00] just you in the gym? Do you have some buddies coming over? I know every now and then, at least during the covid times. You said you were having some people come over to the gym and do some group workouts, things like that. Scott Stallings: a little bit different. normally I follow a schedule of like tournament weekend stuff, heavier, slower, longer into shorter, faster, lighter. It would basically imagine like a Monday through Sunday, all depending on when I travel. And yeah, once Thursday through Sunday comes, relative to my tee times. try to get the vast majority of the heavier lifting done as far away from Thursday as I can. But with two weeks off, I. Traditionally mix, cardio and strength together, where with two weeks off, I have a little bit of opportunity to deal with, a little bit of soreness, a little bit of discomfort. So I separate, cardio and strength completely, and split it up into their shorter sessions, but they’re isolated to those like individual components, deadlift, squat, all the different stuff that kind of goes where you can definitely build in some strength, but Not necessarily incorporate the [00:25:00] cardio implement and do that separately. And, I’ve ran, I’ve rode, I’ve biked and just done everything either morning or afternoon and kind of compliment each other, based off what I’m doing. But as the week progresses, get back into a normal schedule. We had a big group workout today. had some University Tennessee guys come over this morning. They ran ’em through some stuff, like a team workout. And then I had some other buddies of mine come over and we ran through a little bit added bonus of what the guys did this morning. I don’t mind working out by myself. I don’t mind working out with a group. I was very fortunate to have a lot of people come alongside me and help push me in the right direction as far as in my, health and fitness journey, whatever that looked like. and so if I have an opportunity to speak in or show someone, what I had, what I’ve had an opportunity to learn from, I’m, you very open that opportunity and not something I take lightly. So we had Jeff Pelizzaro: you on the show back in 2017, I think it was episode number 1 25. And so now, five years later. I’m curious, how have [00:26:00] the workouts changed at all? A little bit. I know, you’re 38 years old now as opposed to 32 back then. the body changes a little bit. are there different emphasises, are there different focuses? What’s the recovery like these days? How have things changed since the last time you were on Scott Stallings: the show? I think,it’s still at that part in 17. I was still trying to figure out what fitness looked like. I really only knew how to met Conlin. I really knew only had a new, light and fast. Like I didn’t know how to really separate like. Heavy and slow, light and fast and like complimentary movements and like sort of protagonist antagonist pushing and pulling, up, down, left. A b ab what all that, how you’d put it all together. And, and to be honest, I was the training aspect was a huge part, but it was more just the health and trying to figure out what, where training was implemented throughout what I was doing day in and day out. And there was a lot of times where it felt like I was working out way more than I was practicing and my game [00:27:00] probably showed it, but in the time that I had made all those changes, like golf was not my priority. Eh, I felt like if I didn’t give the due diligence to figure out all those other shows, I was not gonna be able to play just because I needed to establish some habits that were gonna be lasting instead of just like flashing the pan. oh, maybe we’re gonna try fitness for a little bit and then see how it affects. no, we’re gonna figure out how this affects life and then see how golf fits in there. And so I think that’s a little bit where the story kind of gets backwards. oh, I did it for my game. It’s like I never thought about golf. like I was thinking of my wife and my kids and myself like, and just, man, if I got to play, that was a bonus. So I definitely feel like I got a second chance at my career and opportunity to go and play and compete against the best players in the world and have an opportunity to speak and tell some stories as far as how I neglected basically everything you could possibly neglect. blame everyone other than myself and take zero responsibility and then get smacked in the face and realized it was all on [00:28:00] me and I was the reason that I was in the situation. I was. And thankfully I had some people that were very willing to give their time and energy to help push me in the right direction and, make some changes that hopefully be lasting and have an impact that, you know, throughout the rest of my life, whether I’m playing or not. Jeff Pelizzaro: have you and I would assume, I know you work a lot with the guys at University of Tennessee and a lot of younger players. Are there some younger guys on tour that you’ve, had some of these candid conversations with or not, and I’m not asking for names or anything, but,where you’ve given them like, hey, this is what really helped me figure this out and this is the direction I went and, giving them the pros and cons of what they might be doing Scott Stallings: or not doing. Yeah, I had some guys this morning, and that guy was like, man, this is the most I’ve ever done before 8:00 AM And he’s and I looked at him and he’s what do you think about that? I was like, man, this is Thursday. And he just is like dumbfounded and just And this is just part of my day. Like I don’t really think about it like that. And this isn’t like a macho, like a beat [00:29:00] head thing. This is just man, I’m gonna train, I’m gonna practice. I’m like, it’s, I ha I had a really funny conversation with a friend of mine and he always starts like, what’d you work out today? Or Did you work out today? I was like, at some point you’re gonna realize that there’s training involved in every part of my day. throughout the entire week. Some days that’s mobility. Some days that’s a walk. Some days that’s a full on I’m over a rail in the backyard. there’s some training is evolved in every aspect of my life and, whether it’s playing, practicing, working out, all the different things. so being able to build that and tell that story and, because the moment that you think that you’re good enough, the moment that you think you’ve got it all figured out is the moment you just get, you just, you’re like that tortoise in the hair, man. You’re just coasting along and all of a sudden you see this guy with a hundred twenty nine, nine hour clubhead speed that’s flying at three 40 and you’re just like, where did that come from? And it just hits you outta nowhere and you’re sitting there man, I’m good enough [00:30:00] right now. And next thing you’re not continuing. Cause the best in the world, the guys that are literally holding the titles week in and week out, they’re consistently trying damned out, figure out ways to get better. and if you’re not doing that, and the moment I’m not even telling ’em touch the break, I’m saying the moment that the foot comes off the gas at all, these guys are racing right by you. And that’s the mentality you have to have as far as to go play and compete at this level. And, thankfully,have gathered a way to, to add that in notes, my routine and mentality and, be able to build it into a daily habit, but also figure out a way to get off the course, get outta my own head, utilize fitness and training to, to, be where I went, on good days where I go on bad days and everywhere in between, it all starts and end of the training. Has it Jeff Pelizzaro: become a, almost like a meditation for you or like a release where that’s some, one of those things where it’s like you get antsy if you haven’t trained that day or if you haven’t done something. and also on the other side of that, are there any specific like mental game things, meditation [00:31:00] that you have implemented over the course of the last several years that also help you with the way that you play and perform on the course? Scott Stallings: Yeah, my caddy, John, he’s worked for me, work. We’ve worked together for eight years and he’ll be the first to tell you, I’ll come out there some days and he’ll be like, what is going on? we’ll try to do some drills or this and that. And I’ll be like, squirrel, like just looking somewhere all over the place. And he’d be like, man, have you like moved your body or I like, nah man, I just slept and came out here and he. Get outta here. this is pointless. we’re not gonna do anything functional today until you go figure out something else, and then we’ll come back and try something later. yeah, I do a lot. I wouldn’t necessarily say I, I do well in competition as far as, making games with myself, whether it’s practice, play, competition, whatever that looks like. And figuring out ways to compete against myself. Obviously I’m competing against the course and my, fellow players on tour, but, [00:32:00] I feel like if I can hold myself to certain standards, whether that’s in the shot or, within a week, if I can maintain that and have some checks and balances in there, like my, my good, can’t compete with the best in the world. It’s, and it’s at this level, it’s not what your good is, it’s what your bad is. It’s like how good is your bad? And can you compete with that like b, c, D game? Tiger made so famous. It’s like I made hit four fairways and shoot 65 of yours. man, I don’t have that. I shaved four fairways. I’m like trunk slamming on Fridays. but just trying to figure out different ways to, play and compete with myself, but also understand and figure out ways that guys continually pushing themselves to get better. and again, just like with fitness, just like we’re playing and everything, or life, the moment that you figure it out, like it’s the moment that you hadn’t figured out anything and just there’s so many opportunities to learn and figure out better ways to get better at, whether it’s engulfing life. And I think that the [00:33:00] moment that you stop learning and training is like you, you can’t operate out here with what? Put out the door. Jeff Pelizzaro: Let’s take a little break here to thank our partners over at Live Pure. Live Pure is a hydration product. That you are gonna want to have in your golf bag, in your gym bag because it’s gonna handle anything that you need when it comes to your hydration, it’s got the electrolytes you need. It’s gonna help replenish your system. On the hot muggy Dayss, which we’re already starting to have here a little bit in St. Louis, but they’ve got the energy, they’ve got the Hydrate, and they’ve got the recovery. They’re gonna handle everything that you need. Whether you’re on the golf course, you’re in the gym, you’re sweating it out. You wanna make sure that you have live Pure in your bag. All you have to do is tear open one of the pre-made little packs, dump it right in with the water, and you’re set. They’ve got incredible flavors including making blue raspberry flavor for all of the products they’ve got you covered. So go to live pure.com. That’s L I V P U r.com. Use the code 18STRONG to get your discount on every order that you [00:34:00] place and use Live Pure to champion your day. Who out there on tour, if any, are guys that you practice with a lot, play some of these games with you. I feel like the people you surround yourself with often are, some of your best friends, but they’re also the ones that push and challenge you the most too. And either on the course, in the gym, whatever it might be. Are there certain guys that you kinda lean on and that lean on you when you’re out there? Or maybe back when you’re in Tennessee at home, you have a group of buddies it sounds like, that come over to the gym. anybody specific on tour though that would play that role A little bit. Scott Stallings: probably more just my team in general. I’m pretty, I would say that if I do anything, I’m pretty regimented as far as the time that I spend doing things. And I try to plan out my day well in advance. And I don’t want, I’m not nec like I would say that on the road, I’m fairly selfish with my time. Just in the fact of I golf is very counterintuitive to my personality because I am not patient. I don’t have the necessarily cognitive attributes to be good at the game. Just, it takes a lot [00:35:00] for me to, I. Zero in. So if I, if that is involved in my practice or week where I’m waiting on someone else or whatever, I’ve become very dysfunctional and I’m aware of that. So I try to create as much of focus on the things you can control my schedule, time, management body times that I train, all these different things to where I’m not constantly having to utilize the things that I need once the tournament goes around. because man, I can do it. But the having the other attributes of a week as far as playing in prep, like I’m not a 18 hole practice strong guy. I’m a,I need to, time and attention in certain quantities and be able to do it when it matters. But, I would say when I’m home, it’s a lot different. just for the simple fact of, I know that, the competition side is not coming. So I do create those same things a little bit, imbalance, uncomfortable situations, whether it’s with the Tennessee guys, other guys that I play with, other pros in the area, whether I travel or not, and be able to [00:36:00] try to find those uncomfortable moments. So where, when it continually happens, week in and week out on tour, you can remind yourself of this is what I did. And, constantly remind yourself of I know my good is good, but how can I continue to make my bad a little bit better? And so we do a lot of things like that. When you’re out there Jeff Pelizzaro: practicing for the golf game specifically, what are the things that you tend to spend the most time on? And then,what’s something that you really don’t like to practice you have to practice? Scott Stallings: I would definitely spend most of my time from inside 150 yards. If you ask any one of the Tennessee guys, they’ll say that I don’t hit balls, which is true, but also not true. I’m not scared to go in there and have a session. But if I’m, if the ball is flying out there the way that I’m expecting it to, like I’m not in, I’m not in the habit of trying to figure out how to hit it bad. And,so I know that there’s no person on earth that ever said they were too good at chipping and pudding or wedge flags. So I spent a lot of time in that area. I do [00:37:00] not enjoy hitting balls. I enjoy, like the new Strokes game thing on TrackMan has completely revitalized my practice because I’m gaming it and, competing against that kind of stuff. So I, I enjoy that a lot. so those situations I feel like has helped me a lot. But I can chip and putt all the time cause that’s something that growing up, high school, college stuff I neglected because I always hit it pretty good and never realized like, man, these are where you spend all your shots. I approved from 1 0 7 to 37 in stroke can pudding in a year. and obviously everything of that translated to scores on course opportunities to, to compete week in and week out, made a huge difference. And, so focus on the little areas is something that I try to touch that at every single part of my day, whether I’m playing or practicing before, during, and after. And, something that I’ll continue to do, for the remainder of my career. You’ve mentioned the Jeff Pelizzaro: University of Tennessee guys quite a bit. Do you do a lot of work with them? [00:38:00] And what’s a session like when you go out with those guys? I’m always curious what that dynamic is with these youngsters. I’m sure there’s a few hot shots they want to take down. The big dog, what’s that Scott Stallings: like? I don’t know. I do a lot of stuff with just the state of Tennessee in general as far as junior golf, whether our kids play free program, a tournament called the Scotty, which is a, team four ball. We have the junior cup where we split Tennessee down the Middle East versus west. 10 boys and four girls. we’re on our 12th season of that. so just have a little bit of touches throughout, whether new beginner developmental to upper echelon as far as, every single part of junior golf and. Brita Webb has built an unbelievable program over there and some really great guys that are playing and competing for him. and as much as I hate to say it, they’ve probably helped me as much as I’ve helped them. it doesn’t take much of an 18, 19 year old kid talking some trash before you realize that. Like, all right, I gotta show these guys. This old guy still got it. I played with them the other day and they were asking me if I needed to play the senior tees. they’re pretty ruthless now. But it’s a, [00:39:00] it’s a cool opportunity to be able to help, like it was just a situation if man, if I had access, like I would literally never leave the guy alone if I was their age. And it just so happens, it doesn’t matter that it’s me, but it’s just someone that doesn’t, at that level, they aspire to be. And,their facility is a joke. literally incredible as far as there’s no stone unturned and just Eddie in every opportunity to be better. So very thankful for him for the opportunity to be able to play and practice and, hopefully leave it a little bit better. And I found it. but it’s all to get to the sit it’s all situational. It’s, what’s needed. there’s probably a few things that we do. We’d probably just like to keep it to ourselves. Not that we feel like we’ve got the secret sauce or whatever, but we’ve got some stuff that in house that we manage to ourselves as far as some games that we like to operate. And,some scenarios we like to recreate it, especially being the fact that in college they have to balance stroke, play, and match play at the, in their ultimate event, whether it’s s e c Copper Championship [00:40:00] or NCAAs. And that is a weird dynamic as far as how you manage a golf course. Basically, you’re playing the same golf course and back to back days. One is a stroke play to be able to qualify for match play and then where score is. The ultimate indicator as far as if your team succeeds or not, who are in match play score. Obviously the lower score the better, but not necessarily the mentality as far as how you go about it. So putting guys and, constantly trying to find situations where you have to balance that and be able to work with what sides of your brain and situational awareness, different things like that. And as much as I’m doing it with, like taking these guys through that, I’m doing it myself as well. And so that’s probably a, a. Something that’s helped me tremendously. And just the competition side as far as I just don’t want to get beat by them. because I will never hear the, if I beat them, it’s expected. If they beat me, I’m just, if I beat them nine outta 10 times, they’re only talking about them one time they beat me. it’s just you know that, hey, once [00:41:00] that ball grows in the air, like it’s just a different scenario and you better be buttoned up. the chair is strong with those guys, so it’s fun. I told us, I, I said man, and I told one of our kids and I said, if you could learn to practice and apply the amount of trash talk that you can do with yourself and others, you would literally never lose a tournament. And so hopefully we can get him just turned the corner on that. this Jeff Pelizzaro: is funny, and this, I might, inquire some help from you here because I find myself now in this predicament really, that most guys I think are in your kids are a little younger. You said 10 and seven, I believe. But,I have a 15 year old boy just made the freshman golf team. And so it’s funny how that’s awesome. All of a sudden, like it just kicks in this competitive instinct in me. I never want this kid to beat me, ever. and I didn’t play any high level golf or anything, but now it’s like I’m really starting to put more time into my game. And, get a little better at my trash talking as well for the youngster. but [00:42:00] I don’t think he even knows that this is, this competition is at the forefront right now. But, I think so many guys, and I’ve talked to a couple of my buddies, it’s like now that our kids are starting to get to that age where we know eventually they’re gonna hit it farther than us, they’re starting way younger than me and my buddies did playing golf. And it’s man, it’s funny how it just kicks in our instinct to start putting in the time, putting in a little more work. So I’m gonna implore you to give all of us. Older guys, what advice would you have for us going in getting, knowing that we’re prepping to beat these youngsters as long as we possibly can? What’s a couple words of wisdom from Scott Scott Stallings: Stallings? Oh man. Like the harder you can throw the needle, the better. I give my guys a hard time all the time as far as, whether it’s our junior golfers or our college, whatever, as far as when they’re standing over it, just saying. I was a member at Whisper Rock for a long time in Scottsdale and there was one of the greatest trash talkers of all time that lived there. And he got this guy just in stitches because he said, man, no one else can hear those [00:43:00] voices as he was standing over it. because you could just tell this guy was like, man, he was going through it. And so I, I had taken that from him. and I tried to. because their physical talent and ability is far greater than mine. So I gotta supplement like my experience and discipline, some different things. like I gave the example of the they don’t know that these things are supposed to be feared or whatever. It’s like they see flag and this is at all level, like it doesn’t matter. They see pin, they don’t see like the fiery forest they have to get through. Instead of I’m like over here man, we can just walk around and we’re good. And I think that now there is a situation when it’s the perfect number and you gotta be able to get you in there man you gotta be able to step on the gas. But also there’s a scenario of knowing what not to do as well. And so he, I think that there’s a lot of things that where you can benefit from a little bit of experience that kind of goes a long way. But [00:44:00] also try to continually put themselves, because whether you’re a dad or a coach or whatever, like you want them to learn and have this, awareness enough so when they sit down, they’re like, all right, I get what you’re talking about. Because it’s one thing to be able to tell ’em, but it’s another thing to be able to show ’em. And so that’s a lot of what I do, whether it’s some juniors and stuff that I work with or the college guys or pros or whatever. I try to find scenarios where we talk about a question or whatever, just like that. And I put ’em in a spot of like, where there’s indecision, yo, it’s different. It’s a perfect nine iron pins perfect, whatever, man. hit it. But it’s when we don’t know and how to make your second decision first. And so that’s the scenario as, as much as my son doesn’t really show any interest in golf or whatever, but man, I would love the day that he beat me. that wouldn’t bother me at all, just for the simple fact of I’ll play against the best players in the world. if he’s beating me, like he’s doing something. And I think that’s just a [00:45:00] different thing because of what I do for a living. but it is funny like seeing some of the younger guys, like where you, they have their island, the prize or whatever, they’re gonna beat this guy, then that’s gonna lead to being this guy instead of eventually if you start to look at it from a little different perspective, you’re just gonna beat everybody so that, hopefully be able to navigate those and you’ll help them learn from themselves. We’ll also just keeping just a little bit of an edge and. Yo. because as soon as they figure out it’s over for you. I know. so hold onto it as long as you can. Jeff Pelizzaro: Yeah, I, and that’s the cool part, right? Because obviously as a dad, I want him to be the best possible player. He can’t be the best young man that he can. really, but, the day that he out is out driving me on a consistent basis, it’s gonna be bittersweet. The time that he starts beating me on a consistent basis gonna be bittersweet. But I want him to be the best he can. I’m gonna try to do everything I can to give him those resources. And I think that’s what’s neat is it then pushes me to, just to hang on a little bit longer. I gotta push myself a little bit more too. And I think [00:46:00] a lot of the guys and girls listening to our podcast are right there. That’s why. They’re interested in the stuff that, that you do, the fitness, the habits, the mental game, the practice. And so it’s just a fun little game that we’re playing, but is a way to, to keep moving along and just continuing to get a little bit better. So appreciate that. But, yeah, if your son grows up and starts beating you, that means he’s a pretty Scott Stallings: quality player. Yeah, we’re battling lacrosse and all the other things that I don’t know anything about. So I just sit on the sidelines and I cheer for the coach and make sure everyone’s having a good time, have as much many snacks as they need to, and, that’s where I’m at. I love it. Speaking Jeff Pelizzaro: of having a good time, rumor has it that you’ve got a little stock of some whiskey at the house that, you’ve become a bit of a whiskey connoisseur. I wanna know, first of all, being a Tennessee guy, are you more of a Tennessee whiskey, that’s I think sour mash, or is that, are you more of a bourbon guy? Scott Stallings: I spreaded around. I don’t have a distinct loyalty, to any, brand or [00:47:00] whatever. Taylor is my favorite. as far as just one like bottle that’s just sticks out. and that was. I would say that’s the one that’s week in and week out. If someone asked me what that is, or anyone that knows me would sit there and say, man, like he’s never gonna see that tall yellow label and be disappointed. but, I spread around and I just, I’ve gotten very involved in the nuance of it. I’ve become friends with some distillers as far as how the whole process works and how you can literally take all these just random things and put it in this whole situation and a little bit of heat, a little bit of time, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. And next thing you get something completely different. And so I like the process of it a lot. and, just very interesting to me for whatever reason. And, so I’ve established a little bit of a collection,by no means like anything to call home about, but something that, you know, I’m interested in and something that I, continue to do and, share glass with a buddy every now and then go figure out a way to,[00:48:00] do something different. I heard Jeff Pelizzaro: when you were,back in when everything was kinda shut down, covid days, you kinda became the mixologist of the neighborhood. What, correct, what one, what did, what’d you get best at? What was your cocktail that you were the Scott Stallings: best at making? I don’t like gin at all. I just do, I think it smells like pine trees. It’s like someone that like, doesn’t like chi tea or whatever. It’s just man it, for whatever reason, I just do not enjoy it. I’ve had some of the best people in the world make. What do they think it is? man, this just got something in it that I don’t like. But I have a friend of ours that’s, a children’s hospital doctor, and obviously during covid and stuff, man, they were just, Working a tremendous amount of time. And for whatever reason I ended up making more like gin batches of different things like that. So I didn’t necessarily, I learned to like it, I learned to tolerate it. But I had a few different recipes that were, Friday afternoons is when we would do that. And we got a, one of those [00:49:00] like big giant mailboxes, our end of our driveway, and they’d have their labels written on these big mason jars and guys would pick ’em up Friday afternoons for the weekend or whenever. And but I had a couple, Tennessee inspired, one I hadn’t won. Feels like 98 based off the national championship. it’s all orange tequila,a couple other things. but mostly I just matched everything together and,when my daughter actually went back to school, she talked about one of the favorite things that she did at home while she was home, and she told her teacher, we made margaritas. And that was just like, that was like the email from the teachers. what are we doing? But the teacher said, we have some teachers here that would like that. so if that happens again, let us know. Jeff Pelizzaro: She’s carrying margaritas in her backpack to school. Scott Stallings: Yeah, we have not gotten that yet, but, to a, for a little bit. And that’s the direction we were headed. Love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, Scott, we’re gonna close out with some questions. we pulled the audience and had some people from our crew sending in some questions for our crew and a segment. So I’m just [00:50:00] gonna roll through these pretty quick ones, and then we’ll get wrapped up here. First one is from James Lee on Instagram. He wants to know how many ACEs have you had and what was the most memorable one? Scott Stallings: I have had nine in my life. I had four on tour. They were all memorable for a different reason. my first one, day before my 13th birthday, the Tiger wins like masters and just starts this whole golf thing. I made one on Father’s Day with my dad, CADed for me. we were at the Korn Ferry event. It was nationwide, the time in Knoxville, and we went out and played. it was for, we did a Father’s Day clinic, junior clinic, and he was Cady for me. We not did this like nine hole exhibition thing and the second hole at Foxton, they don’t play there anymore. They play Holston, which is my home course here in town. And I made it and it was just like crazy. So that was him, Cady for me, walking around the course. That was pretty cool on Father’s Day to be able to go. And so that was probably the one that, I remember the most. That’s so awesome. [00:51:00] Jeff Pelizzaro: We got Rob, m g o Blue 7 25 from Instagram says, he wants to know what your typical nutrition on like game day looks like. What does that. Look like if you’re on tour, what’s breakfast and maybe some encore stuff that you tend to go to? Scott Stallings: it just kinda depends on when I play. I normally start like a morning day. I start three hours before I tee off. So there’s some early days, depending on whenever that is. I just don’t wanna be rushed and I want to have enough time and attention to be able to eat. Like I need to eat,move around. Like I need to move around and just prep, the way it needs to instead of just wait till the last minute and just, throw caution to the wind. so I’d say, more time than necessarily routine and just build it up. I don’t have anything, crazy, follow a little bit of macro planning, idea. I used the RP strength guys for a long time as far as helping, when I made some changes in my body and, the way that I ate and just managed intake with food and different things like that. But, on course I just started working with my menace, supplement company [00:52:00] and I use their fuel product a lot and my bars, the stuff that I eat do a little bit granola, a little bit different things. And I try to find whatever bar is local because that’s at some point man, you just get sick of eating whatever you are and just make sure it just doesn’t have a bunch of crap in it. And, just some keep munching on, but I think they’ll fuel old product from a menace. It’s a carb electrolyte combo. And it is my favorite thing I have and I feel like a dr. A drug pusher on tour, I’m just literally just handing them out everywhere and everyone’s and this is great because it’s very rare to find a carb electrolyte mix that is not just blow you up and, so it, they’ve done a really good job at develop their product that in the world of golf is very applicable. Cool. Jeff Pelizzaro: I know we had a lot of questions come in about, your fitness journey, your health journey. we did talk a lot about that on the last time you were on the show. So for those of you that were interested in those questions, go back to episode 1 25. Let’s get, Scott walked us through that. That was awesome. Victoria wants to know, what’s the worst shot you ever hit in a [00:53:00] pro event? Scott Stallings: Man, I’ve hit so many bad ones. I topped the ball out of the rough. I did it at Memorial. I did it at Man, probably more than I tend to, man. I have hit some bad ones. I did. I hit the worst shot of the year. This year. I was playing Q P E with my buddy Trey Mullinax, and we were playing with, Nelly and Denny McCarthy and Nelly Short Man was a joke, like her shipping is ridiculous. And Trey and I were Ham and egging it pretty good. and I was like, I just asked Nelly a lot about chipping and pitching and she won’t puff from off the green. She just chips. But she literally just chips everything. If it doesn’t go in, it’s have a chance. So we just asked a little bit about pitching and this and that. I, we in a play with,Maverick Neely and Lexi on Sunday, and we’re playing the low ball round and we’re on the 12th hole, which is the part three at Timberon. And I missed it long and right on the green, but I’m in the fairway. And so her, Nelly and I were [00:54:00] talking about just a little bit of setup pitching, and I work with Tim Gilbertson, for my short game. And man, he’s helped my chipping so much. But it was one of these shots that Nelly had described and I was like, here we go. I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna do right here. The ball did not go. A foot. I literally it was one of those where the ball’s here and you hit in the ground and the club goes over. Yeah. It literally, and what moved the ball is the earth. There was no contact with the ball with my club. But to say that the very next hole, which is the drivable hole, number 13 at Tiburon, I drove it right in front of the green and literally had the almost exact same shot and I made it for a two. So Nelly helped me out. I didn’t do so hot on the first one, and then the next one I made it. So she helped me out a bunch. See that? That’s a Jeff Pelizzaro: win-win right there. You made the rest of us normal. People feel good on your first shot and then you came back. So getting redeemed yourself on the Scott Stallings: second one. Perfect. [00:55:00] Literally we’re walk, we’re walking to the next tee and Trey puts some on me. He is that is the worst shot I’ve ever seen you hit. I was like, that is the worst shot I have hit. And and literally as I’m taking it back and hitting it as it’s making the contact with the ground, I’m laughing because I have just not done well and it was awful. And then you had the gut tr bringing up. Yeah, I mean I was committed to it at that moment and I was like, I’m figuring this out. Nelly told me this is what she does. I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna get in there and then I hooped it and the rest is history. That’s sick. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right. Eric wants to know if there’s something you can tell us that’s behind the scenes in a PGA tour event that most of us wouldn’t know about, have never seen, heard of something that might happen throughout the week that you guys do or see that none of us do on the Scott Stallings: outside. I would say that everyone is just pretty normal guys. we’re just like dudes that have a different job than most people. And it is weird [00:56:00] because the job that we have is what most people think about when they’re at their job. Would that, does that make sense? Absolutely. Like most people think about playing and that’s my job. So when I’m not, I don’t want to do this. And I, so I think that, I do enjoy playing when I’m off. I like seeing different courses, different things like that. I like some arch architecture and different things like that, but I think it would be surprising the number of guys that don’t enjoy playing when they don’t have to. I think that would be a bigger number than people realize. Wow. Yeah. I’ve Jeff Pelizzaro: never really thought about that. That yeah. Our leisure activity is job. Is my Scott Stallings: job. Yeah. Yeah. I got some friends, I got some friends that I asked me, he’s let’s go play. I’m like, Hey, let’s go do something else. I was like, one of my closest friends, I was an insurance office and he is man, when are we gonna play? I was like, man, when are we gonna go sell some insurance? And he’s I understand what you’re talking about. Jeff Pelizzaro: what is that for you? what is the hobby that you do like kinda look forward to when [00:57:00] you’re off? Scott Stallings: I like to cook. I like to, obviously I like to work out and I literally like to be on anyone’s schedule, but my own, like my kids and my family adapt so much to my life as a PGA tour player that when I am, in that mode, it’s like I’m not making any plans. Whatever y’all want to do, I’m in, I’ll drive, I’ll kick, I’ll pick up, I’ll carry, I’ll, whatever that looks like I’m in. my wife will joke around saying that I sometimes in off weeks is I’m a lost puppy, because it’s so like tournament week, it’s like I’m in charge. Like I make the plan, I do this, but it’s like home week. It’s whatever y’all need me to do, I’m ready to do it. Whatever that looks like. So because it’s so few and far between, I try to make the most of the time that I do have. So that’s just the best way that I feel like I can get that the most done and be, around with my family as much as I possibly can. That’s cool. I totally get that. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, last one. Dave wants to know if you have any Scott Stallings: superstitions. I only use, I use a neon yellow [00:58:00] line on my golf ball, and I only used number ones. I played the wrong ball. I’m colored blind. and I played the wrong ball on the nationwide tour, and it made, it was like I, I had a black line and the guy had a blue line and I played his ball, so I just figured out a way to not, so that’s probably it. That’s probably the only thing that I don’t know. My caddy would probably tell you I’d do a bunch of other weird things. I don’t realize I do, but I play ones. And I use this crazy neon yellow line cause I know that’s my ball. Jeff Pelizzaro: Are Have you heard of any other guys that have any crazy superstitions out there? Any of your buddies? Oh, Scott Stallings: there’s a lot, like all over the place. we need to get into the whiskey closet and, have a little bit more time. Talk about the weird things. See out there. Jeff Pelizzaro: I’ll take a, I’ll take a rain check on that. I would love to, I’d love to do that behind the scenes for sure. Alright, man, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to be on the show. I do have one favor to ask you and I sent you a little text about [00:59:00] this. we wanna have a little bit of an action item for people to take away from their time with Scott Stallings here. And obviously you’re known as the fitness guy on, on the tour. What’s something that our folks can take this week and do, maybe a little workout, maybe a little scout, something that you like to do 20 minute workout or something like that, that we’re gonna task our crew to do. The week this episode goes out, I’ll, and I’ll do it myself. Scott Stallings: All right, so there’s a hundred, I thought about this when you text me. So there’s a workout in CrossFit, which is a hundred burpees for time. And basically like it, the fitness goal is that you are gonna try to break seven minutes. that’s a, like a benchmark. it’s a time cat, but it’s also like you need to have some relative idea of fitness if you cannot break this. So I turned it into a different of a workout. as far as you start on the minute and you make it a 10 minute cap. But in the process of, you are going to do E every minute after the [01:00:00] first one. So the first minute you can do as many as you want. that’s the only thing you’re doing. And then you are building in every single minute you’re gonna do five squat, five sit-ups, and you’re gonna build off of that. So you have to do 10 reps before you can go back to doing the burpees. And your goal is to try to beat it 10 minutes. okay. you think about it from an overall time cap that’s 10 burpees a minute, but under fatigue to be able to manage that entire time. And you have to do just basically five squat and then, yeah, that, that’s not an incredible amount of reps, but be able to build it. You can do it anywhere. You don’t need any equipment. And so that’s most of the time when people ask me these like little benchmark workouts, it’s like you had burpees and a little bit of time and something in there if my buddy Ben Bruno sees this, he’s a LA trainer buddy of mine. I know he hates bur, he hates burpees. So I’ll also add that in there to bust everything, anything. I do this, I add that in there and I’ll send it to him. I’m at work. He thinks they’re, he thinks they’re stupid and I know that he hates them and I love that he hates them. So [01:01:00] basically when I’m around him, I’ll always hit a couple, just what do you think? This is awesome Jeff Pelizzaro: because I had a feeling there were gonna be a bunch of burpees in here and I know that your buddies with Ben and we’re gonna tag him on this and make sure he sees this for sure. Scott Stallings: so now I’ve just determined that anyone asked me something. because he hates high volume, reps. especially if someone has some type of inhabit, like just inability to do something you don’t want to, whether it’s low back or, anything like that from where a high volume rep like that could really mess with you and he’s not wrong. For sure. But in the situation of now, it’s become like every single time he, we were doing a, we were in a text thread the other day and we were, someone asked about something and he’s Scott’s gonna say burpees, but they’re stupid. And so now I just put ’em in everything and I tag him in all of them. That’s hilarious. I love it. Jeff Pelizzaro: All right, man, I really appreciate you coming on. Good luck this season. obviously the 18STRONG crew is pulling for you. We wanna see you there at East Lake at the end, and, hopefully we can have [01:02:00] another one of these conversations in the future, maybe with a wi little whiskey next time. Scott Stallings: Absolutely. Just spend on one time of day, man. Sounds good. After the workout. I appreciate it, man. All right, it’s, see you, Scott. Jeff Pelizzaro: Thanks for joining us this week on the 18th Strong Podcast. If you want any more information, we’ll have information about the workout. We’ll have information about Scott Stallings and any other things that we talked about on this episode over on 18STRONG.com. Just look up episode number 347 with Scott Stallings and as far as the homework goes, now I’m gonna, full disclaimer, I’m with Ben Bruno. I am not a big Burpees fan, but I didn’t want to send Scott a message and say, Hey, you gotta limit this exercise or that one, because what I wanted him to do was give us something that he would do himself. And so I’m gonna join the challenge. I just caution you, be careful with your burpees. It’s not the greatest exercise for your wrists, for your shoulders, but just be careful. Now, with that being said, we are posing the challenge for you two within one week of [01:03:00] hearing this episode. To do the Scott Stallings 18STRONG. Workout. And so we’ll have it listed on our social media on Instagram. It’s the Scott Stallings workout post. You can go there and it’s got the details laid out. We’ll also have it in the show notes, but what we’re gonna ask of you is when you do the workout, leave a comment on that post and tag Scott in it and let us know if you pass or if you failed, if you’re able to do it in the 10 minutes or even better if you want to take a video of yourself doing the workout or a little snippet of you doing the workout. And then tag 18STRONG and Scott Stalling. And what the heck tag Ben Bruno in these two. I’m sure Ben will love it and Scott would really love for you to tag Ben in there. So let’s see how the 18STRONG crew comes through on the Scott Stallings workout. All right. That’s it for this week. We’re coming back next week with another great episode. We have another great guest lined up, so it’s day tuned to our social media and our emails because we are gonna continue this crew and a questioning every now and then when we have a, a guest coming on that we know that you’re gonna want to ask some questions for. All right. [01:04:00] Train hard, practice mark, and play Better go. Episode Partners: LINKSOUL: For your 20% discount on LINKSOUL gear, go to 18strong.com/linksoul or click the logo above. LivPur: For your 15% discount on LivPur products, go to LivPur.com (or click the logo above) and use the code “18STRONG“. 1st Phorm: Try any of the 1st Phorm products with FREE SHIPPING, go to 1stphorm.com/18strong.com More Cool Stuff to Check Out: To continue the conversation and ask any questions you may have, head over to the 18STRONG Movement group on Facebook. 18STRONG Pro Shop (Get your 18STRONG gear!) 18STRONG Resources (All of the cool stuff we recommend: products, books, golf stuff, etc – and discount codes for the 18STRONG Crew)