The Pursuit of Beauty with Matthew Wilkinson

What happens when a meal becomes something sacred?In this conversation, Matthew Wilkinson sits down with John Heers of First Things Foundation to explore the ancient Georgian tradition of the Supra: a feast built around wine, poetry, hospitality, storytelling, beauty, memory, and human communion. What begins as a discussion about Georgian culture slowly becomes something much deeper: a meditation on why modern people feel spiritually exhausted, emotionally isolated, and disconnected from one another.John Heers shares the story of how traveling to the country of Georgia transformed his life forever. Living among Georgians in the aftermath of civil war, he encountered a radically different vision of human life centered around hospitality, vulnerability, reverence, sacrifice, and shared meals. In the Georgian Supra tradition, the “Tamada” or toastmaster guides the table through hours of poetry, tears, remembrance, philosophy, celebration, and reflection. The words are for the wine, and the wine is for the words.Matthew and John discuss beauty, nihilism, materialism, masculinity, Christianity, and the modern crisis of meaning. They explore why the modern West struggles with loneliness and spiritual hunger despite unprecedented wealth and technology. Drawing from Orthodox Christianity, C.S. Lewis, symbolism, philosophy, liturgy, and lived experience, they ask whether modern life has forgotten something essential about being human.The conversation also explores martyrdom, suffering, and witness through the story of the 21 Coptic martyrs killed by ISIS in Libya. Rather than treating faith as ideology or argument alone, Matthew and John discuss how beauty, courage, sacrifice, and love draw people toward truth in ways that abstract apologetics often cannot. The discussion touches on tears, weddings, funerals, music, repentance, and why modern culture often fears vulnerability and sincerity.John Heers also explains the mission of First Things Foundation and its unusual approach to international aid and mission work. Instead of imposing Western systems onto foreign cultures, First Things Foundation emphasizes becoming good guests: learning local languages, honoring local traditions, living simply, and empowering local communities from within. Stories from Georgia, Mozambique, Sierra Leone, Guatemala, and Orthodox Christian history all become part of a larger conversation about hospitality, communion, and the search for meaning.This interview will resonate with viewers interested in Orthodox Christianity, Anglicanism, Jonathan Pageau, Symbolic World, David Bentley Hart, Christian philosophy, beauty and meaning, the meaning crisis, ancient Christianity, hospitality culture, traditional societies, liturgy, symbolism, Georgian culture, masculinity, modern loneliness, anti-materialism, and the spiritual problems of modern life.If you enjoyed this conversation, please like, subscribe, and share the video. Let us know in the comments: Has the modern world forgotten how to feast, how to commune, and how to truly live together?Feast image in thumbnail: Creator: Makho KipshidzeCopyright: Makho Kipshidze PhotographyPhoto by Irma Sharikadze. Owner by Levan Qoqiashvili02:28 – “The Words Are for the Wine”03:41 – The 21 Coptic Martyrs 05:12 – Beauty vs Nihilism06:45 – Discovering Georgia 09:02 – What Is a Supra?15:02 – Hyperbole and Poetry18:20 – Cultural Appropriation, Love, and Beauty25:15 – Masculinity, Vulnerability, and Tears29:08 – The Structure33:21 – The Tamada38:02 – Americans Don’t Know How41:17 – John Heers’ Conversion to Orthodoxy45:06 – His Brother50:12 – First Things Foundation58:41 – Orthodox Mission Work vs Modern Aid01:03:14 – The Story of the 21 Martyrs of Libya01:07:03 – Why Beauty Converts People More Than Arguments01:10:55 – Materialism, Meaning, and the Crisis of Modernity01:15:02 – “The Only Thing You Can Do Alone Is Go to Hell”01:18:40 – We Were Never Meant to Live Like This

Matthew Wilkinson sits down with Bishop Maximus of Pelagonia and musicologist Evgeny Skurat to discuss one of the most extraordinary sacred music projects in recent memory: a full reconstruction and live recording of the medieval Byzantine Divine Liturgy, filmed at the Hermitage of St. Ignatius in Santa Cruz Naranjo, Guatemala. Drawing on years of manuscript research and decipherment of Middle Byzantine notation, Evgeny has worked to bring to life a musical tradition that has not been heard in its full liturgical context for over 700 years.Evgeny explains the difference between the cathedral and the monastic rite, why the cathedral rite is so much harder to reconstruct, and offers a provocative musicological critique of the caliphonic period associated with John Koukouzelis. Bishop Maximus reflects on the theological vision behind the project — not archaeology, not invention, but the living tradition of the Orthodox Church recovered with rigor and reverence. He also makes a compelling case for how the church should approach congregational participation: not by inventing new practices, but by looking at what the manuscripts themselves show was actually done.Evgeny Skurat is a musicologist, chanter, and director of the Chronos Ensemble, specializing in Znamenny chant, Strochnoy chant, and medieval Byzantine music. His youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@EvgenySkuratChronosChronos Ensemble's Bandcamp: https://chronosart.bandcamp.com/Bishop Maximus of Pelagonia is a bishop in the Church of the Genuine Orthodox Christians of Greece, a teacher at St. Photios Orthodox Theological Seminary in Etna, California, and is known for his dialogues with philosopher John Vervaeke on the Philosophical Silk Road project.Saint Photios Seminary's Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCgEVlUNCkLecfOwOTDYE6jg The Pursuit of Beauty is a long-form interview podcast exploring sacred music, sacred architecture, iconography, and the theology of beauty across Christian traditions. Hosted by Matthew Wilkinson, Doctor of Music and Director of Music and Organist at St. Michael's Church, Charleston, SC — one of the oldest Anglican churches in America, founded 1751.🎵 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major platforms📩 Subscribe to the Pursuit of Beauty Substack: https://substack.com/@UCPo3842Pl_Z3Xqo9GYACUzw 🔔 Subscribe and hit the bell so you don't miss new episodesmy website: https://matthewwilkinson.net/my Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/MatthewWilkinsonMusicVideos referenced during the interview: https://youtu.be/D8rZNz47zoc?si=_dF7roIfSHj40wHShttps://youtu.be/LQWr7TrCaHw?si=EXvgBg-nYBS1-K0Uhttps://youtu.be/xtsAsMiFLvI?si=WLsSHNx9sbsG2nNp https://youtu.be/Qxue4_dDnq4?si=4X4pOUEP6DLX0qgYhttps://youtu.be/PDItXFs3RMY?si=as0ndQfSQGatRbUehttps://youtu.be/6Myosbtq4ek?si=7xy3NHDZcfc69H3M0:00 The Problem with a 6th-Century Liturgy2:21 Introductions4:28 how a Monastery Ended Up in Guatemala7:22 Falling in Love with Medieval Chant — and Finding Evgeny10:50 Evgeny's Background: From Kronos Ensemble to Middle Byzantine Notation15:41 Has Any of This Music Been Recorded Before?18:43 Cathedral Rite vs. Monastic Rite: What's the Difference?22:42 Ornamentation: Why Chanting Without It Would Be Historically Wrong30:25 The Three Goals Behind the Project33:12 Evgeny's Transcription System: Medieval and Western Notation Side by Side43:24 What Is the Caliphonic Period — and Why Is Evgeny Skeptical of Koukouzelis?52:27 Why They Were Forced Into the 13th Century59:36 Glossolalia in Byzantine Chant (Not What You Think)1:01:29 Reading the Sources vs. Reconstructing: An Important Distinction1:04:06 Rubrical Differences: 13th Century vs. Modern Liturgy1:17:15 Congregational, Choral, and Soloist Participation Through History1:22:03 Tradition vs. Invention: Bishop Maximus on Liturgical Reform1:26:53 Where to Find the Recording and Sheet Music

Dr. Alexander Lingas — musicologist, conductor, and Founding Director of Capella Romana — joins Matthew Wilkinson for one of the most wide-ranging conversations in the history of the Pursuit of Beauty podcast. From reconstructing the lost sounds of Hagia Sophia to conducting Byzantine chant at King Charles III's coronation, Lingas has spent 35 years at the intersection of sacred music scholarship and performance. This is the definitive interview on the Byzantine chant tradition, its history, its revival, and its future.Lingas traces the full arc of his career: growing up in a Greek Orthodox parish in Portland, Oregon; doctoral studies in Byzantine chant at the University of British Columbia under Dimitri Konomos; a Fulbright year in Athens studying under the legendary Lykouros Angelopoulos; postdoctoral work in Oxford under Metropolitan Kallistos Ware; and nearly two decades teaching at City University of London. Along the way he founded Capella Romana — now in its 35th year — which has become the world's leading ensemble for Byzantine and medieval Orthodox sacred music, as well as the music of the Christian East more broadly.The conversation goes deep into the musicology. Lingas explains the difference between the "new method" notation introduced in the early 19th century and the medieval Byzantine notation it replaced, and what it means to take a "what you see is what you get" approach to manuscripts that haven't been performed in 500 years. He unpacks how Capella Romana's landmark recordings — Lost Voices of Hagia Sophia, the St. Catherine's Sinai Vespers, Cyprus and Venice in the East — were constructed from manuscript sources, and why this music rarely finds its way back into parish worship. He also gives an extraordinary account of the calophonic chant style of St. John Koukouzelis and the Byzantine ars nova of the 13th and 14th centuries — a sacred music tradition so sophisticated that it eventually transcended text altogether into abstract vocables, which Lingas connects directly to the Hesychast theology of divine energies and angelic liturgy.Other topics include: the full history of Lykouros Angelopoulos and the Greek Byzantine Choir and their foundational role in the modern chant revival; the Romanian, Serbian, and Transylvanian chant traditions and how they diverged from the Byzantine mainstream; the contested question of the organ in Orthodox worship and the difference between a cappella practice and a cappella doctrine; the music of Tikey Zes and the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America; the Appalachian music project and its theological and musicological problems; Arvo Pärt and the Odes of Repentance recording; collaborative work with composers Robert Kyr and Einojuhani Rautavaara; and the grants, publications, and institutional infrastructure that sustain this work.Near the end of the conversation, Lingas reflects on his recent retirement from Capella Romana after 35 years, his involvement with the Institute of Sacred Arts at St. Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary, and his experience at the coronation of King Charles III — where he served first as a liturgical consultant advising on how to represent the Orthodox traditions of Prince Philip, and then as the director of the Byzantine choir that performed at Westminster Abbey.This episode is essential listening for anyone serious about Orthodox sacred music, Byzantine chant, the theology of beauty, liturgical theology, or the history of Christian worship.

Dr. William Renwick joins the podcast to discuss Sarum chant, the medieval English plainchant tradition centered on Salisbury Cathedral that once dominated worship across most of England, Scotland, parts of Ireland, and even Northern France. William is a retired music theory professor from McMaster University in Ontario, Canada, and has devoted the latter part of his career to transcribing, editing, and publishing the entire Sarum chant repertoire at his free website, sarum-chant.ca.In this conversation, William explains the important distinction between the Western rite, the concept of "use," and the word "chant" itself. He walks through how Salisbury's scribes produced such detailed and thorough liturgical books in the 12th and 13th centuries that their system became the standard for roughly 80 percent of English churches. He also discusses the York and Hereford uses, how they compare to Sarum, and the practical reality that very few musical manuscripts survive from those traditions.One of the highlights of this episode is William's live vocal demonstrations of the differences between Sarum chant and standard Gregorian chant. He sings the Sarum and Roman versions of the Orbis Factor Kyrie and an Agnus Dei to illustrate how the melodies share a common origin but diverge in specific intervals and melodic turns. He also demonstrates the Sarum psalm tones, the York gospel tone, and a fascinating St. Stephen's Day prose featuring extended melismatic singing on a single vowel.William shares his perspective on performance practice, arguing that medieval liturgy was a full-time daily activity, not a polished concert performance. He draws an unexpected parallel between plainchant and jazz, noting that both traditions thrive on variation, personal interpretation, and a refusal to be pinned down to a single "correct" version. He also addresses the Abbey of Solesmes and the way their editorial choices may have smoothed over legitimate regional diversity across the Western chant tradition.The conversation covers the sheer volume of medieval liturgical material that has been lost or abandoned since the Reformation. William demonstrates this by showing the seven volumes needed just for Sarum Matins throughout the year, compared to roughly half that for the Roman Tridentine tradition. He explains how both Protestant and Catholic reformations drastically simplified worship, and how the Franciscan preference for simpler liturgy influenced the Roman books that became standard after the Council of Trent.William also explores the surprising connections between Sarum chant and Anglican chant, showing how Renaissance composers like Thomas Tallis based their harmonized psalm chants directly on Sarum psalm tones and their modal endings. He discusses fauxbourdon, the use of drones, the role of the organ in medieval worship, and the Neumae, which are modal melodic codas sung at the end of psalm groups during Matins, Lauds, and Vespers.For anyone interested in starting Sarum chant at their own church, William offers practical advice. He suggests beginning with a simple communion chant in English accompanied on the organ, or introducing an English Kyrie or Agnus Dei from the Sarum repertoire. All of these materials are available for free download at sarum-chant.ca. He has also published printed books in two English styles, one following the Book of Common Prayer and King James Bible tradition, and one following the Douay-Rheims Bible for those with a Roman Catholic sensibility.The episode wraps up with a discussion of organ music, including William's love of Tournemire's L'Orgue Mystique, his experience studying with Gerre Hancock, and Matthew's own background in organ performance in Charleston, South Carolina, at St. Michael's Church, which has a historical connection to Johann Pachelbel's son Carl Theodore.Website: sarum-chant.ca

In this conversation, I sit down with Aidan Hart, an internationally renowned iconographer, liturgical artist, and multiple-time artist commissioned by King Charles III, to explore the meaning of sacred art in the modern world.We discuss what iconography really is, why hierarchy does not mean domination but the transmission of grace, and how the architecture of East and West reveals radically different theological visions. Aidan explains the difference between Romanesque and Byzantine art, why darkness in a church reveals light rather than hides it, and how sacred geometry quietly shapes the composition of icons.We also explore the surprising connections between Celtic and Coptic Christianity, the Egyptian roots of interlaced design, and how early trade routes shaped Christian art in Britain. Along the way, Aidan reflects on his time as a novice monk, his work in monasteries, and why he ultimately left the hermitage in order to live a quieter life.The conversation moves into modern art (Kandinsky, Brancusi, Matisse) and how 20th-century abstraction was deeply influenced by Orthodox iconography. We discuss elongation in icon painting, the meaning of abstraction, and the hidden mathematical proportions behind sacred images.If you are interested in theology, sacred architecture, hierarchy, beauty, Orthodox Christianity, Romanesque art, or the philosophy of modern art, this episode is for you.Aidan's sites: https://www.aidanharticons.com/https://www.aidanhartmosaics.com/https://www.aidanharticons.com/furnishings/my sites: https://matthewwilkinson.net/https://www.patreon.com/MatthewWilkinsonMusic

In this episode, I’m joined by philosopher and systems thinker Jordan Hall for a wide-ranging conversation about AI, music, and the future of human creativity.As artificial intelligence rapidly reshapes how music is made and distributed, a deeper question emerges: does it matter whether art is human-made? And if it does, how would we even know?Jordan proposes that we are entering a moment where “human” itself becomes a genre. In a culture increasingly saturated with synthetic media, authenticity may soon require verification rather than assumption. We explore what it would mean to certify music as human-made, why audiences may begin to seek out verified human art, and how trust breaks down when reality becomes difficult to discern.The conversation expands beyond music into larger philosophical territory—identity, meaning, technology, and the collapse of shared standards of truth online. We discuss why existing institutions and platforms are poorly equipped to address these challenges, and why purely technical solutions are insufficient without deeper human and moral foundations.This is not a conversation about resisting technology, but about placing it in proper order. Music, art, and creativity are not merely outputs; they are expressions of human agency, soul, and responsibility. When those foundations erode, culture follows.If you care about art, philosophy, and the future of human creativity in an AI-saturated world, this episode is for you.now write me a description for spotify

Bruno de Labriolle (Ecole Gregorienne) joins Matthew Wilkinson on the Pursuit of Beauty Podcast to discuss the true history of Gregorian chant, the folk method of singing, ornamentation, relationship with Byzantium and Orthodoxy, singing with drones and instruments, and more.Bruno traces the “Gregorian chant” narrative to roughly around the year 750, when Pippin the Short seeks legitimacy and power in a shifting medieval world. The move toward a “Roman” sound is not just a devotional preference, but part of a larger realignment of kingship, empire, and ecclesiastical influence. One of the most striking moments: Pippin’s dissatisfaction with what later gets called Gallican chant, and his desire to replace it with “Roman song” as a symbol of legitimacy. Bruno explains how the Pope’s interests and Pippin’s interests converge, and why importing cantors becomes a cultural project with major musical consequences. But if chant is primarily oral, how do singers “learn something new,” especially after decades of singing by heart? Bruno describes how a singer can retain a text and broad melodic outline, yet still reshape the line through habitual gestures and local “savoir-faire,” even when everyone is trying to be faithful. This leads to the core claim: what we call Gregorian chant emerges as a cross-fertilization—a blending of an Old Roman repertoire framework with Gallican practices (including ornamentation and modal understanding). In other words, it is not simply “Rome imposing its music,” but an evolving synthesis driven by people, memory, and power. Over time, the irony deepens: Rome itself becomes a place where many different peoples sing many different musics, and eventually Old Roman chant is displaced by the more widespread “Gregorian” usage. Bruno even notes later efforts to enforce the new norm, including a tradition of suppressing older books as the center of gravity shifts. We also unpack why the Solesmes method became so dominant in modern imagination: a practical “vehicle” that lets almost anyone pick up a book and sing via simple note-values (rather than needing a specialist choirmaster). Bruno contrasts this with the semiological approach associated with figures like Dom Cardine, aimed at interpreting early neumes (not square notation) and what they imply musically. If you care about Gregorian chant performance practice, chant rhythm, neumes, and what “authenticity” can realistically mean, this conversation will reframe how you hear chant forever. Whether you sing in a schola, study medieval notation, or simply love sacred music, Bruno offers a rigorous, living way to think about tradition—rooted in history, but not trapped by modern myths.

In this wide-ranging round table, architect Andrew Gould, icon carver and storyteller Jonathan Pageau, and host Matthew Wilkinson sit down over whiskey to wrestle with the future of beauty, sacred art, and architecture. We start with pirates and sea shanties, then quickly slide into Jackson Pollock, Rothko, oil slicks, marbled end-papers, and the problem of modern art hung in the wrong place. Andrew and Jonathan both argue that modernism is what happens when a long, rich tradition becomes fragmented and hyper-specialized. They compare Rothko’s color fields and Pollock’s rhythm to bark on a tree or the shimmering colors of an oil slick on water; there is a real beauty there, but it makes sense only when it is framed by more ordered and more meaningful.Andrew argues that the only real future of art lies in applied arts; things that serve a social purpose: church buildings, icons, interior decoration, good rooms, and good furniture. Oil paintings used to be “applied” in this way; they were made to hang in beautiful houses, to honor a patron, to decorate a dining room, to stand in as an “icon” of a king or bishop. Once painting is made only for galleries and commentary, it begins to eat itself. Jonathan pushes the conversation further and claims that liturgical art is the ultimate applied art. Icons, church architecture, and sacred music do not just distract you after work; they shape your life, your sense of honor, your memory, and your relationship to God and neighbor.From there, the three of you turn to cities, localism, and the built environment. Using Charleston as a case study, Andrew explains how historic districts, design review boards, and legal language originally intended to protect “historic styles” can be slowly re-interpreted to bless modernist glass boxes. You talk about shame, honor, and love; how a developer begins to think differently once he has to live in the town whose skyline he has altered, and how truly beautiful buildings quietly pressure people to dress differently, dine differently, and behave with greater dignity. Along the way, you touch on Greek islands that restrict ownership to locals, empty second homes in historic neighborhoods, and the way a truly beautiful room can transform a dinner party of ordinary college students into something solemn, joyful, and unforgettable.The discussion widens into the metaphysics of beauty and love. Drawing on the classical “transcendentals” of truth, goodness, and beauty, and a provocative list of “satanic transcendentals” such as fashion, sentimentality, and cruelty, you explore the difference between genuine love and mere infatuation. Fashion shocks; it trades in novelty and quickly becomes dated like shag carpet or yesterday’s architectural fad. Real beauty, by contrast, remains loveable across generations, which is why Baroque, Gothic, and classical buildings can be revived again and again, while certain “cutting edge” styles age badly within a decade. The same questions are applied to Orthodox iconography, mannerism, elongated figures, realism, Caravaggio and Rubens, and the danger of making saints look like glossy fashion models rather than members of the Kingdom.You hear concrete examples: Rublev’s Trinity as a bold yet deeply rooted innovation; Gothic portals where elongated saints grow up into the architecture like living columns; Father Silouan’s icons that quietly borrow from modern color theory and postmodern composition while remaining immediately venerable for a village grandmother; Russian attempts to integrate turn-of-the-century realism and Art Nouveau into church painting; and the tragic history of smoke-darkened Byzantine churches repeatedly repainted until the original brilliance vanished beneath cheap overpainting. We talk pirates and sea shanties, Pollock and Rothko, Rubens and Caravaggio, Charleston and Greek islands, Francis Bacon and Schiele, fashion and transcendence.

In this long-form conversation, I sit down with Father Amde Hamilton, co-founder of The Watts Prophets, pioneering spoken word artist, and Ethiopian Orthodox priest. He tells the story of how a Creole childhood that intentionally formed poets and priests prepared him for militant poetry, the civil rights era, and what would later be recognized as some of the earliest roots of rap and hip hop. Father Amde describes his work in Watts at the beginning of the Crips and Bloods, and how gang members became his first congregation. He explains what it meant to pastor young men in crisis, to bring them into the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and to build a parish that held together Jamaicans, African Americans, and Ethiopians in one community, even when some later broke away. It is a rare inside view of gang intervention, Black spirituality, and Orthodox Christian ministry in Los Angeles. We trace his spiritual journey from militant poetry to Rastafarianism, his first trip to Jamaica, and his encounter with the Ethiopian World Federation. From there, he meets Abba Mandefro/Archbishop Yesehaq, is rebaptized, and is entrusted with a letter authorizing him to raise money and help start one of the first Ethiopian Orthodox parishes in Los Angeles. He shares how he studied across traditions, attending Armenian and Coptic churches while traveling back and forth to Jamaica to deepen his understanding of the ancient faith. The conversation moves into music history. Father Amde tells how he met Bob Marley, how he performed the poem “Wisdom and Knowledge” in Marley’s studio, and how that same poem was later delivered at Bob Marley’s funeral. He talks about their shared role in the youth work of the church, the plans they had to record together, and how those plans were cut short by Marley’s illness and death. These stories illuminate the spiritual side of Marley’s circle that most music documentaries never really address. He also recounts the extraordinary story of Nina Simone. When Simone was being held in a psychiatric ward and facing a long-term commitment, Father Amde fought his way in as clergy, advocated for her in the hearing, and eventually brought her into his own home, where she lived with his family for over two months before returning to work. He describes how she encountered the Ethiopian Orthodox tradition, how she was baptized, and how the beauty of the service and the presence of the Holy Spirit transformed her. From there we widen out to questions of rap, language, and culture. Father Amde reflects on the real meaning of “rap” as a regional, ever-evolving Black vernacular, the role of code language in slavery, and how mainstream music distorted something that began as a way of thinking and speaking. He talks about reaching skinheads, trailer-park audiences, and church people alike, about the ongoing struggle for racial reconciliation, and about seeing the image of Christ even in killers and gang-bangers. Finally, we address the present moment. Father Amde speaks about social engineering after the Watts riots, the rise of the internet, spiritual warfare, and what he sees as a global battle between good and evil that will involve much more suffering before it is resolved. For listeners interested in Orthodox Christianity, Black poetry, hip hop history, Bob Marley, Nina Simone, or the meeting point of art, faith, and race in America, this is a rare and deeply moving testimony from a man who has lived through it all.

“If I were the devil, I’d start by destroying beauty.”Composer Dr. John Wykoff joins Matthew Wilkinson on The Pursuit of Beauty Podcast for a rare, soul-stirring conversation about what beauty really is, why it matters, and how its loss is reshaping our civilization. In this wide-ranging dialogue, the two explore the deep relationship between aesthetics, ethics, and faith—and how recovering a sense of beauty could be the key to restoring both art and culture.Beauty, truth, and goodness have been intertwined for centuries, but in the modern world they’ve been pulled apart. Wykoff argues that when we relativize beauty, we eventually relativize morality itself. He explains why the decline of aesthetic judgment leads to moral confusion, how postmodernism flattened the hierarchy of values, and why artists and believers alike must learn again to “love what they create” rather than innovate for innovation’s sake. This is not an abstract discussion—it’s a diagnosis of our cultural sickness and a roadmap toward renewal.Drawing on the legacy of Alice Parker, Arvo Pärt, and Wendell Berry, Wykoff reveals how genuine art begins in love and humility. “Don’t arrange it if you don’t love it,” he says. “Start with love.” From his reflections on choral arranging and sacred song to his critique of technology’s impact on music, Wykoff calls artists to return to the human, the communal, and the incarnational. Beauty, he suggests, isn’t luxury—it’s spiritual warfare.Together, Wilkinson and Wykoff trace the collapse of beauty in modern art, the spiritual implications of digital sound, and the metaphysical truth hidden inside musical form. They discuss postmodernism, hierarchy, counterpoint, theology, philosophy of art, and the moral imagination—all through the lens of a Christian composer who writes fugues “before breakfast” to discipline his soul. What emerges is a vision of beauty as participation in divine order, where every note and brushstroke becomes an act of love.If you’ve ever felt that something sacred has gone missing from culture, this conversation will name what you’ve sensed. It’s a meditation on how art can heal the soul and how beauty leads us back to God.video at end courtesy of Missouri State University Chorale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_fk_s7eCsPerformed by the Missouri State University Men's Chorus at Juanita K. Hammons Hall for the Performing Arts in Springfield, MO on March 6, 2018.Missouri State University Men's Chorus - Cameron F. LaBarr, conductor“Gone Home”arr. John WykoffSoloist: Giovanni Hernandez, baritonePiano: Parker PayneVideo Production by Blake Richter Productions www.blakerichterproductions.comAudio Production by Darcy Stephens

What happened to beauty in architecture? In this episode of The Pursuit of Beauty, host Matthew Wilkinson sits down with Michael Diamant, founder of The Architectural Uprising and creator of the Facebook group New Traditional Architecture, to explore how we lost our connection to form, harmony, and meaning in the modern world. From the sterile glass towers of contemporary cities to the rediscovery of timeless design, Diamant reveals why the future of architecture depends on reviving classical principles.Diamant describes how The Architectural Uprising began as a movement across Scandinavia and Europe, uniting thousands who reject modernism’s soulless aesthetic in favor of beauty, truth, and goodness. He discusses the paradox of rebellion in a tradition-minded cause—how “uprising” means reclaiming the human spirit from ideology and bringing back craftsmanship, proportion, and the pursuit of the transcendent in the built environment.The conversation dives into the philosophical foundations of classical architecture: why beauty is objective, why proportion and symbolism matter, and how the classical tradition is not a single style but a living framework that evolves with culture. Diamant contrasts the humility of the classical architect—who serves the street, the city, and the community—with the ego-driven modernist who builds for novelty’s sake, creating monuments to self rather than to truth.Together they examine Frank Lloyd Wright, Art Nouveau, and Art Deco, exploring which modern movements successfully carried forward the classical spirit and which succumbed to utilitarianism. Diamant argues that early modernism once promised beauty and progress but was quickly replaced by what he calls “narcissistic modernism,” obsessed with innovation and ideology instead of human flourishing.As the discussion turns toward urban design, Diamant explains why skyscrapers alienate people from one another, how courtyard urbanism creates livable cities, and why Europe’s most beloved neighborhoods work so well. He contrasts the community-focused city planning of the 19th century with today’s sterile mega-projects and defends the idea that small, cohesive cities of around half a million people represent the optimal scale for human life.Matthew brings up the concept of the “Civium,” as proposed by Jordan Hall, to ask whether the internet era makes traditional cities obsolete. Diamant agrees that technology allows decentralization but insists that smaller, well-designed cities—built around beauty, family, and walkable neighborhoods—are the key to a sane civilization. Real progress, he says, means scaling down, not building higher.The two also explore the moral and spiritual dimensions of architecture. Diamant suggests that beauty is an act of love—a way of manifesting transcendence in stone. Together they discuss why societies that lose beauty also lose social cohesion, why middle-class families are essential to civic life, and how classical design naturally nurtures order, belonging, and gratitude.In the final moments, the conversation turns personal and cultural: why Charleston, SC represents one of the last living examples of urban beauty in America, and how taxation, zoning, and civic will could either revive or destroy that legacy. The result is a profound meditation on architecture, civilization, and what it means to build for eternity—a call to rediscover beauty as resistance in an age of concrete conformity.

Orthodox iconography, Rothko, sacred art, and the problem of propaganda in beauty—this second interview with Fr. Silouan Justiniano takes us deep into the intersection of faith, modern art, and the revival of Christian tradition. From Mark Rothko’s sublime color fields to the Byzantine legacy of iconography, Fr. Silouan explores how authentic art transcends ideology and points toward the divine, while kitsch and propaganda reduce beauty to mere sentimentality or political utility. For artists, theologians, and lovers of beauty alike, this conversation offers profound insight into the meaning of sacred creativity in a modern world. Fr. Silouan contrasts Rembrandt’s material richness with the chromatic delicacy of Persian and Indian miniatures, arguing that each tradition bears unique spiritual weight through the materials and techniques it employs. Beauty, he insists, cannot be reduced to mere skill or novelty; it is bound to the inner life of the artist and the contemplative power of form itself.The discussion moves to the avant-garde, as Fr. Silouan examines artists like Rothko, Pollock, and Kandinsky, showing how abstraction, when undertaken with depth and authenticity, opens paths to contemplation and the sublime. Rather than gimmickry or intellectual posturing, true abstraction leads the viewer into silence, mystery, and wonder—an experience he connects to the apophatic theology of the Christian East.Yet not all art elevates. Fr. Silouan critiques propaganda in both religious and secular art, distinguishing authentic sacred beauty from works that merely flatter ideology. Whether in political art, sentimental Christian films, or saccharine paintings, he warns against creations that refuse to confront the tragic and broken realities of human life, preferring a false prettiness over truth and transcendence.Even Orthodox iconography, he notes, can be misinterpreted as propaganda when viewed through a secular lens. But true iconography is not mere messaging—it is theology in color, an invitation to prayer and transformation. It exists not to manipulate but to reveal divine beauty, drawing the soul into contemplation rather than coercion.From here, the conversation turns to the revival of Orthodox and Coptic iconographic traditions, offering practical wisdom for artists seeking to recover or reimagine sacred forms. Fr. Silouan stresses the need to study the masters, imitate excellence, and only then begin to synthesize a personal voice rooted in reverence rather than rebellion or trend-seeking.Music and liturgy emerge as parallel concerns: can the innovations of modern music be baptized into the Orthodox tradition without compromising prayerful stillness or theological depth? Drawing on his monastery’s own experience with Byzantine chant in English, Fr. Silouan describes a living tradition capable of growth without surrendering its inner spirit.Innovation, he argues, should flow not from ego or novelty-seeking but from love—love for tradition and love for new influences encountered with discernment. When artists embody this love, their work naturally unites fidelity and freshness, producing art that is alive, prayerful, and enduring rather than clever, shallow, or fashionable.From Rothko’s abstraction to Puerto Rican church architecture, from Byzantine chant to the theology of beauty, this interview unfolds as a meditation on art’s highest calling: to reveal reality truthfully, beautifully, and reverently. Watch now to explore how sacred art can resist propaganda, transcend ideology, and lead the soul toward the mystery of God. Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more conversations on art, faith, and beauty.Fr. Silouan Justinano's sites: https://hieromonksilouan.org/aboutmy sites:Support me on Patreon: https://patreon.com/MatthewWilkinsonMusic?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink💻 Website and blog: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

Join us for an in-depth conversation with Chris Hoyt, composer and church musician, as we explore the rich tradition of Anglican church music and the ongoing debate between traditional and contemporary worship styles. This comprehensive discussion covers everything from organ repertoire to hymn arrangements, making it essential viewing for church musicians, worship leaders, and anyone interested in Anglican liturgical music. (The Pursuit of Beauty Podcast Episode 23)Traditional Anglican Music Heritage and Cultural Continuity - Chris Hoyt emphasizes that being Anglican encompasses more than theology and church government - it means embracing 500 years of artistic and cultural tradition. He argues against the casual dismissal of this heritage in favor of personal musical preferences, highlighting how Anglican chant serves as a "tremendous gift to the church Catholic" and a flexible tool for singing scriptures. The discussion delves into what constitutes appropriate church music, with both speakers agreeing that context is crucial. Hoyt shares examples of using challenging repertoire like Messiaen's works in specific liturgical moments, emphasizing that music must serve the worship experience rather than showcase artistic expression. They explore how the Psalms provide a model for incorporating a wide range of human emotions - from joy to anguish - into liturgical music.A significant portion of the conversation addresses the practical reality facing the Anglican Church in North America (ACNA), where many parishes only have guitar players rather than organists. Hoyt advocates for gradually growing congregations toward traditional music while acknowledging the integrity of contemporary Christian music. The speakers discuss successful examples of churches incorporating hymnal repertoire with contemporary instrumentation.We explore the complexities of blended worship services, with both musicians sharing their experiences. They discuss the technical challenges of combining traditional and contemporary elements effectively, including the importance of keyboard-driven arrangements over guitar-driven ones for aesthetic continuity. Specific examples include incorporating brass ensembles with both traditional hymns and contemporary songs during major feast days.We share our approaches to challenging repertoire, from Duruflé's works to Bach's organ compositions. They emphasize the importance of preparation and giving one's best effort as an offering to God, rather than pursuing perfection for its own sake. The conversation touches on the balance between artistic excellence and pastoral sensitivity in choosing appropriate music for different congregational contexts.Hoyt discusses his published collections, including "20 Hymn Voluntaries" and "75 Hymn Tunes Reharmonized," explaining how these works arose from practical liturgical needs. He shares specific examples of reharmonizations that reflect the emotional content of different hymn verses, particularly those dealing with penitential themes or the Passion of Christ.We include examples from Ethiopian Orthodox, Syriac, and other Eastern Christian traditions, exploring how different cultures approach the balance between reverence and celebration in communion music. This includes fascinating insights into liturgical dancing and the use of drums during the Eucharist in some traditions, challenging Western assumptions about appropriate worship music.We conclude with deeper theological reflections on music's role in Christian formation. Hoyt argues that church music should be the "fountainhead" that flows out to transform community life, bringing back simple pleasures like communal singing and dancing. They discuss how authentic Christian culture can serve as an "oasis in a desert place" by recovering God's good gifts in creation, including music's role in the cosmic choir of worship.