Typology

None of us becomes who we are on our own. We carry the stories, wounds, wisdom, and unfinished hopes of the people who came before us. Sometimes we recognize those inheritances; sometimes they show up in us before we even have words for them. This week on Typology, Anthony and I sit down with J.S. Park, hospital chaplain and author of We Are Made of Us, to talk about the complicated, beautiful truth that understanding ourselves means getting curious about the people and stories that shape us. Joon's work has brought him alongside people at life's most vulnerable thresholds, where family histories and old patterns often come into view. He invites us to look at our own stories with a little more curiosity and a little less judgment. Whether you're a Two, a Four, or simply someone whose family story is still unfolding, I hope this conversation offers you a little insight, compassion, and room to breathe. In this episode: How culture and family shape the way we understand our Enneagram type The "June bow": why we sometimes rush people through grief Moving beyond codependence and independence toward interdependence A more compassionate question to ask about difficult family relationships Listening to our aging parents and honoring the stories they carry Resources: We Are Made of Us by J.S. Park (releases 10/20/26) J.S. Park on Instagram J.S. Park Website Take the Typology Institute Enneagram Assessment

This week I sat down with Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott, an Enneagram Eight and Two who have been married for more than forty years, for a fun and personal conversation about love, mental health, and self-awareness. We talked honestly about what it actually takes to stay curious, connected, and growing in our relationships. And, we explored the ways our best qualities can sometimes get distorted, what anxiety can teach us about ourselves, and why self-awareness is often the beginning of real change. I noticed that nearly every story we shared came back to the same thing. Les has a phrase for it: awareness is curative. He talked about the anxiety he's carried since he was young, and how simply naming it "is like putting a handle on a hot tea kettle; suddenly you can pick it up." Leslie spoke with tenderness about the seasons of her life where she has struggled and her long road back. Their experiences are why they wrote their new book, The One Year Positive Mental Health Devotional (Tyndale, October 6, 2026). With society leaning into the mental health crisis, especially among young people, Les and Leslie felt it in their personal lives and daily work and wanted to provide a companion for all of us holding it together on the outside while something unravels underneath. It's an invitation to recognize and sit with where you really are. At the same time, their MyHeartChart quiz grows from the same root. While the Enneagram describes who you are, your traits, your wiring, MyHeartChart tells you where you are right now in the relationship that matters most to you. It's an opportunity to take the pulse of the state of your relationship, alone…for free. This is a conversation about marriage, parenting, mental health, the Enneagram, and the ongoing work of becoming more present to the people we love. But more than anything, it's about learning to notice ourselves so we can show up differently for each other. ABOUT DRS. LES AND LESLIE PARROTT Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott are #1 New York Times bestselling authors and psychologists. Their books include The Love Language That Matters Most; Health Me, Healthy Us; and the award-winning Saving Your Marriage Before It Starts. Their pioneering assessments have been used by millions and include the free MyHeartChart.com. Their work has been featured in the New York Times and USA Today as well as on CNN, Good Morning America, TODAY, The View, and Oprah. They live in Seattle and can be found online at LesandLeslie.com.

What if you had learned the Enneagram when you were a teenager? In this replay of my conversation with Ainsley Britton, author of The Enneagram for Teens, we explore what self-awareness can look like during adolescence and how parents can use the Enneagram without turning it into another way of labeling or controlling their kids. Ainsley and I talk about why she believes teenagers can benefit from learning the Enneagram, why it should be held loosely, and why parents should never force it on a teenager who isn't interested. We also discuss parenting, curiosity, vulnerability, mental health, relationships, and one of the most important things we can remember about the Enneagram: We are more than our numbers. In this episode: The significance of the Enneagram for teens and its potential to aid in self-discovery. The challenges and joys of being an Enneagram Type 2. Practical advice for parents on introducing the Enneagram to their children without forcing it. The role of mental health awareness in today's youth and how the Enneagram can facilitate important conversations. Whether you're a parent, educator, or simply curious about the Enneagram, this episode is packed with insights and laughter that you won't want to miss! *This episode is a replay of an earlier conversation with Ainsley. ABOUT AINSLEY BRITAIN: Ainsley Britain is an Author, Podcast Host, and Enneagram Coach dedicated to helping young adults build confidence and foster healthy relationships. A Cajun at heart and native of Lafayette, Louisiana, Ainsley's journey took her through New York City and Nashville, shaping her relationships, experiences, and career. Her book, The Enneagram for Teens, offers young adults an introduction to the Enneagram during formative years of their lives and her podcast, Wild Confidence, shares insights from Ainsley's experiences, aiming to empower others. Now residing in Baton Rouge with her family, Ainsley embraces the vibrant culture of South Louisiana.

What happens when a Three stops performing and starts telling the truth, even to herself? Anthony and I sat down with Stephanie Barron Hall, author of Enneagram in Real Life and host of the Enneagram in Real Life podcast, for a conversation that starts with instinctual stacking and ends up somewhere much deeper. Steph, a sexual (or what she calls a "spark") dominant Three, unpacks how the sexual instinct differs from the social Three most people picture, why she was so often mistaken for a Four, and how she's learned to notice the exact moment she starts performing instead of being present. We move through the difference between achieving your identity and receiving it, the religious trauma that shaped Steph's relationship to spirituality, and why she's going back to school in her late thirties to become a therapist. We also talk honestly about what it actually costs to tell yourself the truth, not just other people. Steph is the author of Enneagram in Real Life, available wherever books are sold. Find her at ninetypes.co and on her own podcast, Enneagram in Real Life. ABOUT STEPHANIE BARRON HALL Stephanie Barron Hall (M.A. Organizational Communication & Leadership) is an Accredited Enneagram Practitioner, author of The Enneagram in Love (2020) and Enneagram in Real Life (2025), creator of @NineTypesCo, and host of the Enneagram in Real Life podcast. Stephanie has been facilitating personality-centric team development for years as an outside consultant for organizations ranging from small businesses to Fortune 100 companies. Stephanie's approach to the Enneagram is grounded in communication theory and emphasizes deep personal work through application, curiosity, and self-awareness.

What happens when the type you've claimed for years turns out to be wrong? Today, I sit down with returning guest Beatrice Chestnut — Enneagram teacher, author, and co-founder of the Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy — for a wide-ranging conversation on one of the most common (and most human) struggles in Enneagram work: mistyping. We dig into why mistyping happens, how to hold a hypothesis about someone's type without imposing it, and the subtype distinctions that resolve the Enneagram's trickiest lookalikes — especially Twos vs. Nines and the three very different faces of Type Four and Type Six. Beatrice also opens up about her own evolving growth path, and I share a personal story about the moment a single sentence in one of Beatrice's books changed how I understood myself. IN THIS EPISODE Why mistyping is a normal part of the self-discovery journey — not a system failure How to gently raise a hypothesis about someone's type without playing "Enneagram police" The key differences between Twos and Nines (emotional expression, image-consciousness, who initiates) Self-preservation, social, and sexual subtypes of Type Four — the "glad," "sad," and "mad" Fours Why Sixes so often don't recognize their own fear-based motivation until they find the Enneagram Beatrice's personal reflection on growing from a Four toward Eight-like strength What it actually feels like when your type finally "lands" ABOUT OUR GUEST Beatrice Chestnut, PhD, is the co-founder of the Chestnut Paes Enneagram Academy and author of The Complete Enneagram (new edition available next month) and The 9 Types of Leadership. Learn more at beatricechestnut.com.

Most Enneagram teaching is very good at describing what's wrong with you. This episode is about what's right. Every Enneagram type has a Passion — the chief emotional distortion the ego runs when it's disconnected from its truest self. Anger for the One. Pride for the Two. Deceit for the Three. Each of the nine types has one, and most of us have spent a lot of energy trying to manage ours without quite knowing what it is. But every type also has a Virtue. Not a moral achievement you add on top — a quality that naturally arises in the heart when the Passion loosens its grip. Serenity. Humility. Authenticity. Equanimity. Non-Attachment. Courage. Sobriety. Innocence. Right Action. These aren't things you build. They're things that emerge when you stop being in the way of yourself. In this final episode of the Enneagram Essentials series, Anthony and I walk through all nine Passions and their corresponding Virtues. I share what Equanimity feels like in my own life as a Four — when I manage to access it — and we close with two honest answers to the question of how any of this actually becomes real: contemplative practice, and a particular kind of willingness to stop running from pain. This is a hopeful episode. Everything in the series has been building toward this. The Enneagram has always been pointing here. This is Episode 5 of 5 in the Enneagram Essentials series. All five episodes are available now wherever you listen to Typology. RESOURCES FROM THIS EPISODE: The Road Back to You by Ian Morgan Cron The Story of You by Ian Morgan Cron Enneagram Assessment | Find Your Type Ian's speaking and organizational work Follow Ian on Instagram | Facebook | TikTok | YouTube

Here's something I've noticed after years of teaching the Enneagram: there's usually a moment when someone who knows their type well suddenly encounters something that doesn't fit. A behavior they can't explain. A pattern that seems to contradict everything their type is supposed to do. More often than not, the answer lives in the instincts. In this episode — Episode 3 of our Enneagram Essentials series — Anthony and I go into one of the most undertaught concepts in popular Enneagram culture: the three instinctual drives. Every human being is wired with three biological survival drives — Self-Preservation, Social, and Sexual (or One-to-One). These aren't psychological preferences. They're primal. They predate the ego. And they operate in a hierarchy — which means that depending on which instinct fires first for you, two people of the same Enneagram type can look almost nothing alike. We walk through all three instincts in detail: what each is oriented toward, what it looks like in everyday life, what its shadow side is, and how to start identifying which one is dominant for you. We also talk about the Repressed instinct — the drive that tends to be most underdeveloped — and why understanding it can explain a remarkable amount of friction in your closest relationships. If you've ever felt like your type description is about 80% accurate and you can't figure out what the other 20% is — take a deeper look at instincts. **This episode is part of the Enneagram Essentials series. Episode 4 builds directly on today's content, so listen in order if you can.