Unsung Podcast

You might think you don't know Christophe Szpajdel's work. You almost certainly do. The Emperor logo. The Metallica Mankind clip. The Rihanna lettering that went a hundred feet high at the MTV VMAs. If you've spent any time near heavy music, his hand has been on things you've stared at without knowing his name.This week we sit down with the man known as Lord of the Logos — Belgian-born, Devon-based, currently on shift at the Co-op — to talk about a career that has produced somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 logos, and counting. We get into his early years doodling in school notebooks in Liège, the Art Nouveau obsession that underpins everything, and how a chance encounter on the Tube ended with his work displayed at one of the biggest awards shows on the planet for £500 — a fee he only learned was for Rihanna after he'd already quoted it.We cover the Emperor logo that defined his reputation, the Metallica commission that required him to draw at Heathrow five hours before a flight to Japan, and the Foo Fighters Christmas jumper that was a mutilation of his work, and what he did about it. We also discuss the readability question that divides the scene, the three-month creative block triggered by a South Korean band, his forestry degree and why nature sits at the centre of everything he makes, and the political stance on Ukraine that has cost him ten logos in one go.The question running through all of it: how does someone this prolific stay original?Highlights 00:00 Intro 01:00 Meet Christophe Szpajdel — Lord of the Logos 04:00 Logo Count and the Goal of 20,000 by 2030 06:00 The Process Explained 09:00 The Unsung Logo and Chris's Tattoo 10:00 Background: Belgium, Poland, Ukraine, Devon 11:00 The Co-op Day Job and Why It Works 13:00 Side Projects: Murals and the Polish Calendar 17:00 Musical Influences: Kiss, Motörhead, Celtic Frost 19:00 First Logos and Early Career 21:00 The Emperor Logo 25:00 Chilean Influence: Rick Zuniga 26:00 Nature, Art Nouveau, and the Forestry Degree 28:00 Best Work Comes from Anger or Obsession with Death 29:00 Symmetry, Creative Block, and the Client Problem 33:00 Live: Working Through the Drag Logo 38:00 The Readability Debate 43:00 The Rihanna Story 47:00 Metallica at Heathrow 53:00 The Foo Fighters Bootleg Response 54:00 The Mandy Soundtrack 57:00 AI and Market Saturation 59:00 Ukraine, Politics, and the Russian Flatmate 01:02:00 Losing Ten Logos Over a Political Stance 01:03:00 Black Metal, Church Burnings, and Forbidden Fruit 01:08:00 The Trump/Putin Artwork 01:09:00 The Books: Lord of the Logos, Archaic Modernism, Oracles in Black

Could it be done? Is it possible to call anything Green Day have ever released both unsung AND (crucially, because there's a fair bit of 'meh' in their catalogue) good? Well folks, this week and next we're going to do our very best to find out. And we're joined by our good friend Rick Bruce from Coffin Mulch and Moonshine Docks. Our contention? That their fourth album, Insomniac, is an unsung classic. This is all relative of course--in the 90s and 00s they sold bucket loads of records. How many people had copies of their records knocking about in their car footwells before 2010? Probably millions. And it hasn't stopped. They're still pulling down millions of streams per month. Objectively, they are huge. And somewhat less objectively, they're probably the biggest punk band ever, and certainly one of the biggest bands on earth. I mean, Insomniac itself isn't even their lowest selling record. And in this episode, we don't even get to it! It's a two parter after all. No, in this episode we talk about everything from the 1000 Hours EP right up to, and including, Warning. With a brief detour into Pinhead Gunpowder too. We'll tackle Insomniac itself in our next episode--as is our way. Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 02:08 Green Day at the Super Bowl 04:47 Is It Even Possible for Green Day to be Unsung?! 05:23 Support us on Patreon 06:53 Mark's Album-a-Day Project, Power Pop Rabbit Holes & Mic Banter 08:45 Green Day 101: Origins, Pop-Punk Blueprint & Gilman Street 10:51 Influences Deep Dive: Hüsker Dü, Replacements, Costello, Op Ivy & More 15:21 Which Album Is Unsung? Debating Kerplunk, Nimrod & Insomniac 20:27 Early Timeline: Sweet Children, 1,000 Hours EP & 39/Smooth Era 22:40 Scene Discipline vs Scottish Modesty: Getting Good on Purpose 33:03 Kerplunk Breakthrough, Major-Label Controversy & Setting Up Dookie 35:27 How I First Bought Dookie (and Why It Wasn't a 5/5 Yet) 37:03 1994: The Year Pop-Punk Exploded (Offspring, NOFX, Weezer & More) 38:04 Green Day's Mainstream Breakthrough: MTV, Grammys, and the Blink-182 Ripple Effect 43:56 Insomniac (1995): Darker, Faster, Burnout After Fame 46:55 Nimrod (1997): 'Good Riddance' and the Genre-Hopping Era 51:38 Seeing Green Day Live: Glasgow Shows, Merch Regrets, and Peak Memories 53:17 Do Novelty Songs Ruin Pop-Punk? The Big Debate (Descendents, The Offspring, Blink) 59:50 Warning (2000): Polished Pivot, Chasing Hits—or Underrated Growth? 01:09:12 From Warning to American Idiot: The Stolen 'Cigarettes & Valentines' Sessions 01:12:12 On the Cusp of American Idiot (Wrap-Up & Next Part Tease)

Bowie fans have long found ways to make peace with some of the more unsavoury aspects of his character and behaviour during that decade. His Thin White Duke persona highlights what, by his own admission, were “the darkest days” of his life. And while he was quick to distance himself from that character as he grew older, its influence on certain members of the British far right certainly left a mark. Yet there is a much darker period of his life than this. It is now a matter of record that he was in sexual relationships with both Lori Maddox and Sable Starr — perhaps the two most infamous “baby groupies” of the early ’70s — when they were just 13 and 15 years old, respectively. Grim stuff all round. We’ll be exploring both of these aspects of his life in this week’s episode, as well as the wider “baby groupie” culture of the era. This episode raises questions about separating the art from the artist, the role of 1970s rock culture, and the personal responsibility of fans. Join us as we navigate the challenging waters of moral grandstanding and personal hypocrisy, questioning if, and how, we can reconcile admiration for Bowie’s art with the transgressions of the man himself. Highlights 00:00 Introduction 00:38 Unfinished Business with David Bowie 02:26 Trigger Warnings 04:05 David Bowie's Complex Legacy 13:57 Fascism and Controversial Statements 38:50 Sexual Misdeeds and Allegations 41:05 Introduction to Statutory Rape in Rock Culture 41:30 The Story of Dana Gillespie and David Bowie 42:34 Lori Maddox and the Baby Groupies 43:29 Sable Starr and the Rock Scene 45:05 The Culture of Underage Groupies 47:24 Laurie Maddox's Relationship with David Bowie 56:51 Jimmy Page and Laurie Maddox 01:00:06 The Wider Problem in Rock Culture 01:07:45 Modern Reflections on Past Actions 01:14:58 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

This week we're diving into why bands like Godspeed You! Black Emperor and King Gizzard are pulling their music from Spotify - and why it probably won't change anything. It's a trickier situation than it seems, but the whole mess starts with Napster in 1999. 80 million people sharing MP3s illegally crashed the music industry, dropping revenue 15% in four years and creating a chain reaction that led to piracy running rampant for much of the 00s. Enter Daniel Ek in 2006 with Spotify, which was built initially using pirated music from The Pirate Bay, telling you everything about how much they value artists. But it worked. By offering free access to entire music catalogues (with ads), Spotify created something no competitor can match without hemorrhaging money. Today, 412 million people use Spotify's free tier. That's the foundation of their dominance - not the 263 million paying subscribers. But this creates an impossible situation for artists. Big names with established fanbases can afford to leave, but new artists risk invisibility. Record labels and promoters judge bands by Spotify monthly listeners and post-gig discovery relies on easy music access, meaning that pulling your music from this platform could be potentially damaging for their careers. The "just use Bandcamp" argument misses the point - it's a different business model entirely. Bandcamp is buying a car; Spotify is hiring any car you want. And as it turns out, a LOT of people prefer hiring now. But the real problem isn't Spotify - it's "technofeudalism." Tech platforms operate like medieval fiefdoms where users become trapped serfs. Artists complain about Spotify royalties while creating free content for Instagram and TikTok, which monetise their labour through surveillance capitalism. The arms investment angle (Daniel Ek's €600m in AI weapons) sounds damning until you realise Google runs military AI projects for Israel, Meta builds battlefield AR for the US military, and all big tech props up the military-industrial complex. Their conclusion is bleak: there's no way out. The market expects free music and won't change. Mass boycotts might work but won't happen. The only real solution is direct artist support - gigs, merch, Bandcamp purchases, because it's almost impossible for anyone to truly extricate themselves from terrible machinery of the current internet era. Highlights: 00:00 Introduction: Bands Leaving Spotify 00:15 The Techsodus Idea and Streaming Services 02:23 History of Music Piracy: From Napster to Spotify 07:01 Spotify's Rise and Artist Payments 16:15 Technofeudalism and the Creator Economy 28:34 Spotify's Business Model and Market Dominance 34:58 The Spotify Dilemma: Free Access and Market Expectations 35:15 Apple's Potential and the iTunes Model Revival 35:53 Bandcamp: A Hopeful Alternative? 39:17 The Discoverability Advantage of Streaming Platforms 47:15 The Moral and Practical Dilemma for Artists 59:52 The Broader Issue: Platform Capitalism and Tech Giants 01:15:00 Supporting Artists Directly is The Only Real Solution

Everyone knows Hulk Hogan's entrance music, but how many know the fascinating story behind Rick Derringer's "Real American"? With the recent passing of Hulk Hogan, we thought we’d revisit a previous episode and update it with new information. Oh, and also to film the whole dang thing as we weren’t doing that back then. So, this week we’re exploring the unlikely journey of a song that became one of wrestling's most iconic themes, examining its cultural impact, political appropriation, and the complex legacy of both its creator and, in some ways, Hulk Hogan too. From Rick Derringer's impressive musical pedigree (The McCoys, collaborations with Steely Dan, producing Weird Al) to the song's evolution from US Express theme to Hogan's signature tune, we unpack how a piece of 1980s excess became a cultural touchstone - and political football. We also talk about Rick Derringer's extensive musical career and connections, the origins and evolution of "Real American"; WWE's "Rock and Wrestling Connection" era in the mid to late 80s; the song's political appropriation across decades; Hulk Hogan's controversial legacy and recent passing; the music video's gloriously over-the-top 80s aesthetic and more. Let’s fight for the right of every man. Or everyone, depending on the version you prefer. Episode Highlights 00:00 - Introduction and Hulk Hogan's recent cultural relevance 01:30 - Rick Derringer's impressive musical CV and career highlights 03:00 - The creation story: "The most patriotic song of all time" 05:30 - Wrestling music history and the Rock and Wrestling Connection 12:00 - How "Real American" became Hogan's theme (it wasn't originally!) 15:00 - Hulk Hogan's controversial legacy and recent scandals 18:00 - The Wrestling Album and WWE's musical ambitions 22:30 - The song's political life and cultural appropriation 28:00 - Iron Sheik's legendary Twitter feuds with Hogan 31:40 - Rick Derringer's own political evolution and re-recording 36:30 - The gloriously cheesy music video breakdown 41:00 - Why this song represents the 1980s perfectly 44:00 - Final thoughts on Hogan's impact and the song's enduring legacy

You may have seen the AI band The Velvet Sundown pop up in the news recently and thought "well, that's weird". Long-time fans of the pod probably also thought "when are they going to do an episode on that?" Well, here it is! The Velvet Sundown - What Actually Happened? If you've been following us for a while you'll know that every 18 months or so we seem to return to broader discussions about where music and technology intersect. It began with an episode on Threatin (if you remember who Threatin is, well done) and how one man's quest for fame led to him faking a massive fanbase. A quest that ended with him playing to empty rooms across the UK, and saw him trying to retcon it into some kind of art hoax. Later, we discussed what a possible future using AI music might look like in March 2019, looking at the early attempts to create artificial intelligence music and how the data given to streaming platforms could very well be used to create music. An episode that is now quite prescient in retrospect. Mark was actually quite optimistic that a Velvet Sundown-esque AI band scenario would not come to pass. How naïve... And then in October 2023 we took a two episode deep dive into Spotify playlist manipulation, and how it began way back in the early days of radio with payola. Spotify algorithm manipulation plays a huge role in how the person/entity behind The Velvet Sundown was able to gain so much traction so quickly - reaching 1.1 million plays and potentially earning £35,000+ annually. AI Music - The Bigger Picture This week's episode continues this tradition. We cover some old ground in places (the history of AI music and playlist manipulation), but for the vast majority of the episode we break new ground. We look at the hard numbers around what this synthetic music "artist" stands to make, examine other AI-generated bands like Anna Indiana, The Devil Inside, and Aventhis, ponder both the inventive and interesting uses of artificial intelligence in music as well as the more troubling ones, and look at some possible futures in the wake of all this AI band controversy. You can also watch this episode on YouTube, if that's your thing. Link is here: https://youtu.be/04mYK3G4x5k If you've enjoyed this episode, do consider subscribing to our Patreon at www.patreon.com/unsungpod Highlights: 00:00 Introduction to The Velvet Sundown 00:36 AI in Music: From Skynet to Rei Toei 01:35 The Rise of The Velvet Sundown 03:05 AI Bands and Their Impact 07:33 History of AI in Music 17:18 Modern AI Music Innovations 33:31 The Future of AI in Music 36:10 Financial Implications of AI Bands 42:05 The Impact of AI on Job Replacement 43:43 The Uncanny Valley in AI Music 45:07 Genres and AI's Ability to Mimic Them 49:57 AI's Influence on Modern Music Production 55:21 The Rise of AI in Country Music 59:24 The Future of AI in the Music Industry 01:07:19 Ethical and Regulatory Concerns 01:21:34 Concluding Thoughts on AI in Music

This week we're diving headfirst into the gloriously pretentious world of No Wave - the three-year New York art scene that somehow managed to influence everything that followed. Chris has somehow convinced Mark and our resident Italian punk professor Ferro to explore how a bunch of art school dropouts in a financially bankrupt New York accidentally created one of music's most important movements. We start with New York City in 1978: a proper shithole where you'd genuinely risk your life getting a taxi to Brooklyn, Times Square was basically a war zone, and the city had literally gone bankrupt. Perfect conditions, as it turns out, for a load of bohemian kids to move in, pay bugger all rent, and start making the most deliberately difficult music imaginable. Enter Brian Eno, who's meant to be in New York producing Talking Heads like a normal person, but instead wanders into some art space gig and discovers bands like Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, DNA, Mars, and The Contortions doing something completely mental. Being Brian Eno, he obviously decides to document the whole thing, creating the legendary "No New York" compilation that basically put the entire movement on the map. We get properly stuck into the key figures: Lydia Lunch being an absolute force of nature in Teenage Jesus and the Jerks, James Chance slapping music critics (literally - he assaulted Robert Christgau), and the various weirdos who decided that what punk really needed was to be even more antagonistic to its audience. Ferro brings his encyclopaedic knowledge of the European connections, particularly the parallels between New York's urban decay and Berlin's post-war experimental scene. We explore how Einstürzende Neubauten were literally destroying studio floors with sledgehammers whilst Throbbing Gristle were essentially inventing industrial music in their Yorkshire squat. The conversation sprawls magnificently through Swans' absolutely punishing early albums, the way Sonic Youth emerged from this scene, and how bands like Bush Tetras and Rat at Rat R kept the torch burning. We also dive into some proper tangents about Madonna apparently being in an art punk band with future Swans members (mental) and how this whole movement influenced everything from the Load Records noise rock scene to modern post-metal. This is part two of our anti-rock trilogy. Last week we tackled the prehistory from musique concrète to Captain Beefheart, and next week we'll finally get to US Maple and try to explain why anyone would voluntarily subject themselves to their particular brand of musical torture. Highlights 00:00 Introduction to No Wave and Brian Eno's Influence 00:33 Welcome to the Podcast 01:04 Recap of Previous Episode 02:14 The Rise of No Wave in Late 1970s New York 02:46 Sociological Context of 1970s New York 02:59 Key Figures and Bands in No Wave 03:43 The No New York Compilation Album 07:59 Brian Eno's Role and Impact 11:02 Musical Influence and Legacy of No Wave 20:04 James Chance and The Contortions 22:44 Sonic Youth and Swans: Post No Wave Evolution 25:51 The Influence of Swans on Post-Metal 27:25 Exploring Lesser-Known Bands: Rat at Rat R and Bush Tetras 28:48 The Impact of Foetus and Throbbing Gristle 35:13 Berlin's No Wave Movement and Einstürzende Neubauten 41:08 The Legacy of No Wave in Chicago and Beyond 45:03 Anti-Rock Bands and Their Influence 48:38 Concluding Thoughts and Teasers for Next Episode

This week we're diving into the wonderfully gloomy world of Emma Ruth Rundle. Or more specifically, we're having a bit of a discussion whether she's actually goth or not, what goth even means, and how it may be broader than some think. Musically, Chris thinks most of her catalogue is a bit pants but she has artistic integreity. Mark reckons she's brilliant. Emma Ruth Rundle has spent her career shape-shifting between projects like some sort of musical chameleon with commitment issues. From her early folk-gaze days with The Nocturnes to her brief stint with post-rock titans Red Sparrows. From the overlooked Marriages project to her increasingly experimental solo work. She's never been one to stay in her lane. The question is: does all this reinvention actually work, or is it just restless artist syndrome? We get deep into the weeds of her entire discography. Our main focus is 2016's "Marked for Death", which Mark insists is her masterpiece and Chris... well, Chris has opinions. We also tackle the thorny question of what actually constitutes "goth" in 2025. Spoiler: it's probably not what you think. Plus we discuss her genuinely unnerving experimental albums. And try to work out why Sargent House thought it was a good idea to send a recovering alcoholic to record alone in the desert. With unlimited booze. Episode Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Studio Setup at Variety Bar 05:21 The Great Goth Debate Begins 18:45 Emma Ruth Rundle's Project History 32:48 Electric Guitar One: Ambient Experiments 39:00 Some Heavy Ocean: The Proper Debut 44:14 On Dark Horses: Chris's Least Favourite 52:26 The Thou Collaboration: Overrated or Underrated? 59:48 Engine of Hell: Stripped Back and Boring? 1:04:06 Electric Guitar Two: Pure Horror Movie Soundtrack 1:13:28 Marked for Death: The Desert Sessions 1:26:00 Final Verdicts and Wrap-Up