Utah Avalanche Center Podcast

More often than not, UAC forecaster Craig Gordon heads into the backcountry alone. He loves it. the solitude. Moving at his own pace. Spending as much time as he wants, as much time as it takes to understand the snowpack. He also understands the risks involved in touring alone. Craig joins us to talk through two of his most memorable solo backcountry tours, what he learned out there, and how he came back a changed man.

There isn't any hard data on this, but it seems safe to say that Paige Pagnucco is one of very few people who are both full-time avalanche forecasters and MBAs. In fact, she may well be a group of one. Pagnucco, who forecasts for the Logan region, says that, while it may not seem like it at first, there's actually some significant overlap between business and forecasting. It comes down to messaging. Marketers and forecasters are both trying to figure out how you inspire certain behaviors by saying the right thing in the right way. Pagnucco joins us to explore the nuances of effective communication in a backcountry locale shared equally by motorized and non-motorized users.

Greg Gagne is a self-described conservative backcountry skier. His greatest satisfaction comes from putting in the work before entering avalanche terrain. He wants to know, as well as he possibly can, that the snow he's traveling on and around is stable. Greg joins us to explore how we grow our knowledge and experience in avalanche terrain, and we also talk about the ingredients of a healthy backcountry community.

This season, something a little different on the podcast. We want you to get to know the UAC forecasters, so, Drew is handing over the host's mic to producer Benjamin Bombard, and he'll be the one interviewing the crew. Drew's first at bat. He joins us to talk about how relaying valuable information through stories—rather than "just the facts, ma'am"—can help backcountry users get home safely.

Unlike a lot of snow and avalanche professionals, Jerry Roberts spent a fair amount of time hanging out around San Francisco, soaking up the Buddhist-infused literary scene of the '60s. He developed a deep affection for some very old school snow enthusiasts: Basho, Issa, Buson, and other 18th-century Japanese poets. He went on to a lengthy career forecasting for the Colorado Avalance Information Center, the Colorado Department of Transportation, even Quentin Tarantino. Along the way, he's written a number of his own wintry haiku. He joins us to share stories and wisdom from a lifetime in the snowy mountains, as well as a few poems.

Where and when does a situation go bad? It's easy to think that an accident is the result of a single bad decision. But as Laura Maguire tells it, to understand an accident, which can be read as a failure of decision making, you really need to examine the systemic influences and the progression of choices that led up to that pivotal moment, because no decision is made in a vacuum. Maguire is an expert on human decision making. She joins us to talk about how the choices we make can be influenced by many factors, and how we can make safer decisions by developing a deeper understanding of both the benefits and limits of our thinking. She also shares tools for hacking the decision making process to build in greater safety margins.

After five years of hosting the podcast, Drew Hardesty was curious about the mindset of the young guns just now cutting their teeth and testing themselves in very real, very consequential ski mountaineering terrain. Is the old guard wasting their time wagging their tongues and fingers about the dangers of backcountry travel while the youth just roll their eyes? That's where Zack Little comes in. Hired by Exum Mountain Guides as a teenager, Little has climbed and skied all over the Teton Range and even climbed the Grand Teton before high school. He joins us to talk about risk management, mentorship and laying the groundwork for a long life in the mountains.

It's been said that culture eats training for breakfast. In other words, you can take all the classes, read all the books, develop a fool-proof checklist and a dialed-in system, but when the snow falls, and when a social animal enters a high-risk environment, all that education and preparation can go right out the window. AMGA/IFMGA mountain guide Margaret Wheeler and Sawtooth Avalanche Center forecaster Chris Lundy join us for a conversation about the push and pull between cultural pressures, "selfish" rewards and the difficulty of actually understanding risk in the backcountry.