What Do You Mean By That?

Imagine you're six years old. You look out past a barbed wire fence at a highway in the desert, and every single car that passes by is driven by someone white. The teachers who come to your school? White. The guards in the towers above you, also white. And you think to yourself: is this America? Or is America out there? That child was John Tateishi. He was almost three years old when the U.S. government forced his entire family - along with 120,000 other Japanese Americans - from their homes and into concentration camps on American soil. His family ended up at Manzanar. And when the war ended, they were handed $25 and told to find their way home. What John did with that childhood - with that rage, that clarity, that love of country despite everything this country did to him - is an important story in American history, and honestly one that many adults may not have even learned in their history classes growing up. He went on to lead the Japanese American redress campaign, helping secure a formal government apology and reparations. He's the author of Redress: The Inside Story of the Successful Campaign for Japanese American Reparations. He shares a lot about what that fight means today - for the Black reparations movement, for anti-Asian hate, and for the question that sits at the center of all of it: Who gets to be American? As we move towards a celebration of America's birthday, that question sits front and center for many of us, as we're actively being told that we're not American. These stories show us not only how we reject that narrow view, but also how to fight for ourselves and one another while loving our communities, families, and country at the same time. What to listen for: John's personal experience as a young person incarcerated at Manzanar - and what it was like returning to society The makeup of Los Angeles in the post-war period - and how different communities banded together What John sees as the differences between the successful campaign he helped lead for Japanese American reparations and the hurdles facing Black Americans, starting with HR40. About John Tateishi: Incarcerated as a child in one of America's WWII concentration camps, John Tateishi carried that memory with him when he launched the Japanese American reparations campaign in 1978. He directed the public affairs and legislative strategies of the campaign until 1986, two years before the campaign ultimately culminated with the signing of the Civil Liberties Act. Ten years later, he led the JACL's challenge against the Bush administration's policies that targeted Arab and Muslim communities and undermined the civil liberties of all Americans. He is the author of Redress: The Inside Story of the Successful Campaign for Japanese American Reparations (2020).

We've had rough years before—but 2025? This one hit different. If you've been listening to us for the last six years, you know we're no strangers to hard conversations. DEI. Wellbeing. Systems that don't work the way they should. And this year pushed all of that—from the global to the deeply personal. So what did we learn when everything felt heavier than usual? Let's talk about the biggest lessons this year forced us to learn - what we're leaving behind in 2025, and what we are carrying forward, with purpose, into 2026. What to listen for: Mindsets that we're embracing: There are two things you can control, attitude and effort. Thank you, kids' basketball camp, for teaching us this one. It feels a lot more peaceful to identify and wear one identity at a time, and not feel guilty that you're not being anybody else in that moment. Even if you've got a trillion things on the go, if you need to be mom right now, be a rockstar mom; if you need to get a workout, be an amateur athlete. Some strong truthbombs amidst laughter, including this: Nobody cares. You're giving other people's opinions far more power than they actually have. Everybody's going through something. Tough doesn't look the same; have empathy. What we're bringing into 2026: Relationships and empathy.

In an age where AI can fake a video, social platforms reward outrage, and even the word 'misinformation' means different things to different people, one question rises above the noise: how do we know what to trust? Today, we're joined by Vanessa Otero, the lawyer-turned-media-analyst behind Ad Fontes Media and its well-known Media Bias Chart, to explore exactly that. Vanessa takes us inside the mechanics of bias, the structures driving extreme content, and the habits that actually make us smarter news consumers. This episode is your practical guide to staying informed without getting manipulated. What to listen for: What the Ad Fontes media bias chart looks like, and how to use it: their mission is to rate all the news to positively transform society. Knowing that there's a high correlation between high bias and low reliability Advice for media consumers who are trying to recognize bias without all the tools – including considering disbelieving everything until you can verify it through multiple sources New ways to discuss the media landscape. Example: Instead of saying "fake news" or "misinformation," which are politically charged and open to interpretation, consider using more accurate language like "misleading information" or "inaccurate information." About our guest: Vanessa Otero is the Founder and CEO of Ad Fontes Media, the company that rates news for bias and reliability. Ms. Otero founded Ad Fontes in 2018 with a mission to rate all the news to positively transform society. She created the original Media Bias Chart in 2016, which was the seed idea for creating the company. She is passionate about bringing people together and overcoming the challenges of political polarization in our present environment. Prior to starting Ad Fontes, she practiced as a patent attorney specializing in software. Vanessa holds a B.A. in English from UCLA and a J.D. from the University of Denver.

When we have repeat guests back on the pod, it's because we love them, their work, and the message that they're not only sending out into the world but embodying themselves. And we think all of this can be said a million times over for today's guest and her brand new book (out today!). As we think about this conversation, which we can't wait for you to listen to, there were those mic drop moments, but there were also those contemplative moments where we were not only deep in conversation, but we really felt the power of this notion of uncompeting. We can't wait for you to feel this too, as you listen to our conversation with Ruchika Malholtra about her new book Uncompete and why we should all be redefining success together. What to listen for: What led Ruchika to coin this new term – uncompete – and what it really means, including various nuances that are important to understand Which parts of uncompeting were the hardest for each of us to integrate – liberating our bodies, redefining success, accepting joy, among them The power of community and radical generosity, as we shift our understanding of power from "power over" to emphasize "power to" What's been bringing each of us joy lately! About our guest: Ruchika T. Malhotra is the founder of Candour, a global inclusion strategy firm that has worked with some of the world's biggest organizations, and author of Uncompete: Rejecting Competition to Unlock Success. A former business journalist, she is now a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times, Forbes, Bloomberg, The Seattle Times, and more. She has held adjunct faculty positions in communications at the University of Washington and Seattle University and is the author of Inclusion on Purpose: An Intersectional Approach to Creating a Culture of Belonging at Work, MIT Press's top-selling book of 2022. Ruchika was born in Singapore and has lived in six cities across four countries. She is the Thinkers50 Radar class of 2019; Shortlisted for the 2023 Thinkers50 Talent Award; and co-wrote one of HBR.org's top 100 most-read articles in history: Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome. Ruchika invests in and advises various ventures as a Venture Capital limited partner and angel investor. Related episodes: Inclusion on Purpose, with Ruchika on Dear White Women: https://www.whatdoyoumeanbythat.com/dwwepisodes/159-inclusion-on-purpose-with-ruchika-tulshyan-mwdah On being kinder, not nicer, with Dr. Kelli Harding: https://www.whatdoyoumeanbythat.com/episodes/03-how-to-be-kinder-not-nicer-with-dr-kelli-harding

This episode is a must-listen for anyone who's ever felt like legal talk is impossible to understand (👋 Sara included!). We're joined by Elie Mystal, brilliant legal mind, powerful truth-teller, and New York Times bestselling author of Allow Me to Retort: A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution, to break down the complex world of American law and what Democrats are doing all wrong (and can do better) in a way that's sharp, accessible, and even funny. 💥 He's back with a bold new book: Bad Law: Ten Popular Laws That Are Ruining America. If you're fired up about the state of our country, about policy that is working frighteningly as intended, or simply want to understand how certain laws are quietly shaping (and harming) everyday life, this conversation is for you. What to listen for: The least-legal legal chat we've ever had, including loads of straight-talking humor that makes the truth go down a little easier – on how SCOTUS operates and how we can change it, on the laws we might easily repeal to make tremendous change in our country, and more Why we might be seeing more whitewashing of history, and the truth that we are back to us all needing to educate our own children on this country's true history. That what we are (or aren't) doing now is exactly what we would have been doing during any great catastrophe in history Practical ideas for how YOU can help dismantle harmful laws and make a difference in our country's trajectory. This episode is perfect for fans of legal analysis without the jargon, book lovers, including our former Dear White Women book club, and anyone looking to better understand (and change) our current system. 🎧 Press play, and get ready to rethink what you thought you knew about the law. About our guest: Elie Mystal is the Justice Correspondent for The Nation, where he writes about politics and social and racial justice. Elie's first book, Allow Me To Retort – A Black Guy's Guide to the Constitution, was on the NYT's bestsellers list in April 2022. His second book, Bad Law: Ten Popular Laws That Are Ruining America, was released in March 2025. Mystal was the executive editor of Above the Law, a website with approximately 2 million unique visitors that focuses on law, courts, and justice. He's known for writing about the law and politics, breaking down Supreme Court decisions, and up-to-the-minute coverage of Supreme Court confirmation battles. Off the page, Mystal is a legal contributor to the More Perfect podcast, a Radiolab spinoff, on WNYC. He's appeared regularly on MSNBC since 2018, appearing on All In With Chris Hayes, The Beat With Ari Melber, A.M. Joy with Joy Reid, and Up with David Gura. On the Radio, Mystal has been a frequent guest on the Brian Lehrer Show, the Dean Obedallah Show, and Signal Boost with Zerlina Maxwell. He's also appeared on The Mike Huckabee Show, the Megyn Kelly Show, Red Eye with Greg Gutfeld, and done various appearances on CNBC and Fox Business about legal industry news. Mystal received his undergraduate degree in Government from Harvard University, his J.D. from Harvard Law School, and worked as an associate at Debevoise and Plimpton from 2003-2005.

We had a very insightful superfan make a brilliant suggestion that we're acting on, starting with this episode. David Gaines, author of Radical Business, CEO of La Terza Coffee, and kind human being, sent in a message cheering us on for the podcast rebrand, and then pushed us to do just a bit more. Specifically, he said, "The guests you have on clearly have their brilliance to add to the world, but for me personally, the main reason I listen to your work is that I find a lot of brilliance in your perspectives as you process in real time what your guests are saying." Considering that while we are deeply curious human beings who are pretty darn good at interviewing people, we are ALSO speakers who very much have our own brilliant perspectives - his words, not ours - too. So, David, thank you. We're going to weave in more episodes with our thoughts, reflections, and actions based on what we learn from our guests going forward! In addition, this fall, we're working on something new for our newsletter subscribers, so make sure you're subscribed to be the first to hear about it! And if you're more of an audiophile, based on the fact that you're listening to this podcast, take a moment to check the link below to leave an audio recording of your feedback on how we can make this podcast the best it can be for YOU! What to listen for: Insight into how we came up with this idea for our 2025 summer series, and how we source our guests. Our favorite takeaways from each one of our summer episodes, including practical tips, general themes, and questions that we're still mulling over. How you can make the podcast better - we're looking for your input! CLICK HERE to record yourself giving us feedback on how to make this podcast and newsletter better for you!!!!! https://platform.amoofy.com/record/podcast-feedback/start

Maybe these are some questions you've asked yourself, as we've moved from the election of 2024 to the present: Where the heck are the Democrats? What's happening with the dysfunctional American two-party political system, and if we don't support what the Trump administration is doing to our people and our rule of law, how do we find any hope we might have left for regaining control of our Democracy? What do we even mean when we say Democrat these days? We've asked ourselves the same questions and have come up empty. As a result, we decided to ask these very same questions of a Democratic insider, as this week we discuss how to be a better Democrat. What to listen for: What better strategies look like for Democratic strategies going forward, including increasing youth leadership, and getting into your communities to learn what people really care about How do we hold Democratic leaders accountable? Finding commonality across the aisle Holding Republican leaders accountable for preserving our democracy as well About our guest: Megan Imperial is a seasoned political strategist with over eight years of experience in policy development, legislative strategy, and organizational leadership. She has worked across public, private, and nonprofit sectors, specializing in racial equity, budget analysis, and workforce development. Megan's background includes advising government agencies on equity initiatives and managing high-impact campaigns, including her recent work as Campaign Manager for Jesse Arreguín for State Senate and Victor Flores for BART. At the state level, Megan has held leadership roles within the California Young Democrats, including VP of Finance and Chair of the Womxn's Caucus. She serves as a sitting member of the California Democratic Party Women's Caucus. Locally, she is the Immediate Past President of the East Bay Young Democrats.

Depending on who you are and where you get your news from, you may be seeing a completely separate version of the news from your neighbor down the street, your aunt in another state, or your coworker who only gets his news from a specific social media platform. Maybe everyone around you gets the same news you do. But you also know that there is a very different version of reality out there, that many people are deeply believing in. So, how do we figure out what's true and what's convenient? How do we talk to each other if we don't have the same baseline of understanding about, perhaps, anything? We'd argue that this is where critical thinking skills come in. But what do you mean by critical thinking skills? We're glad you asked. This episode is for anyone who wants to think deeper about what we mean when we say critical thinking skills and how we can use them to bridge the divides in our communities, our country, and maybe even in our own households. What to listen for: What are critical thinking skills, and why are they so important? How do we avoid the common mistake of confusing critical thinking for believing in counter-narratives, especially when we are living in an era of disinformation or misinformation, where even the truth is hard to find? The main parts of critical thinking - and how we can each practice these skills About our guest: Colin Seale was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY, where struggles in his upbringing gave birth to his passion for educational equity. Tracked early into gifted and talented programs, Colin was afforded opportunities his neighborhood peers were not. Using lessons from his experience as a math teacher, later as an attorney, and now as a keynote speaker, contributor to Forbes, The 74, Edutopia and Education Post and author of Thinking Like a Lawyer: A Framework for Teaching Critical Thinking to All Students (Prufrock Press, 2020) and Tangible Equity: A Guide for Leveraging Student Identity, Culture, and Power to Unlock Excellence In and Beyond the Classroom (Routledge, May 2022), Colin founded thinkLaw (www.thinklaw.us), a multi-award-winning organization to help educators leverage inquiry-based instructional strategies to close the critical thinking gap and ensure they teach and reach all students, regardless of race, zip code or what side of the poverty line they are born into. When he's not serving as the world's most fervent critical thinking advocate or tweeting from @ColinESeale, Colin proudly serves as the world's greatest entertainer to his two young children.