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On the show
From 22 epsHosts
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Recent episodes
From Rant Bridges to Big Deals: Taylor Swift’s Songwriting Cred & New York Times Interview
May 5, 2026
51m 28s
SwifTEA: Countdown To Clouds & Clowns (Debutation?)
May 2, 2026
26m 49s
Eldest Daughter
Apr 28, 2026
55m 43s
Father Figure
Apr 21, 2026
47m 12s
Swifties for Eternity- Olivia Levin Talks Taylor Swift, Secret Sessions & The Story of Us
Apr 14, 2026
41m 48s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5/5/26 |  From Rant Bridges to Big Deals: Taylor Swift’s Songwriting Cred & New York Times Interview✨ | Taylor Swift's songwritingNew York Times interview+4 | — | New York Times | — | Taylor Swiftsongwriting+5 | BetterHelpCODE | 51m 28s | |
| 5/2/26 | SwifTEA: Countdown To Clouds & Clowns (Debutation?)✨ | Taylor Swiftemergency episode+3 | — | Toy Story | — | Taylor Swiftcountdown+3 | Liquid IVTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 26m 49s | |
| 4/28/26 | Eldest Daughter✨ | eldest daughteremotional vulnerability+4 | — | — | — | Eldest DaughterTaylor Swift+5 | LIQUID IVTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 55m 43s | |
| 4/21/26 |  Father Figure✨ | lyric analysispower dynamics+4 | — | — | — | Father FigureTaylor Swift+5 | BetterHelpTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 47m 12s | |
| 4/14/26 |  Swifties for Eternity- Olivia Levin Talks Taylor Swift, Secret Sessions & The Story of Us✨ | Taylor Swift fandomOlivia Levin+4 | Olivia Levin | Tumblr13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast+1 | — | Taylor SwiftOlivia Levin+5 | — | 41m 48s | |
| 4/7/26 | The Taylor Swift Biopic: Dream Casting Every Era, Ex & Icon✨ | Taylor Swift biopicdream casting+5 | — | — | — | Taylor Swiftbiopic+6 | BetterHelpTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 27m 22s | |
| 3/31/26 |  Opalite Explained: Music Video Deep Dive✨ | Taylor Swiftmusic video analysis+5 | — | OpaliteAnti-Hero+1 | — | OpaliteTaylor Swift+5 | — | 57m 02s | |
| 3/24/26 | Opalite✨ | song analysislyric breakdown+4 | — | OpaliteThe Tortured Poets Department | — | OpaliteTaylor Swift+7 | BetterHelpTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 52m 37s | |
| 3/17/26 | The Most Underrated Taylor Swift Song on Every Album (Swiftie Debate)✨ | underrated songsTaylor Swift discography+4 | — | SpotifyStay Beautiful+11 | — | Taylor Swiftunderrated songs+4 | — | 48m 48s | |
| 3/10/26 | Track 2 Rankings✨ | Taylor SwiftTrack 2 rankings+5 | — | The Eras TourPicture to Burn+17 | — | Taylor SwiftTrack 2+5 | — | 40m 44s | |
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| 3/3/26 | Elizabeth Taylor✨ | Hollywood legendsfame+4 | — | The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy FallonThe Life of a Showgirl | — | Elizabeth TaylorTaylor Swift+7 | — | 1h 27m 08s | |
| 2/24/26 | The Fate of Ophelia: Music Video Deep Dive✨ | music video analysisEaster eggs+5 | — | The Fate of OpheliaThe Life of a Showgirl | — | Taylor SwiftThe Fate of Ophelia+6 | Liquid I.V.TAYLORSWIFTFAN | 38m 31s | |
| 2/17/26 | The Fate of Ophelia✨ | Taylor Swiftsong analysis+4 | — | The Fate of OpheliaThe Life of a Showgirl+1 | — | Taylor SwiftThe Fate of Ophelia+6 | BetterHelpTAYLORSWIFTFAN | 49m 55s | |
| 2/10/26 | SwifTEA: Initial Opalite Music Video Reactions & Theories | It's a full-on SwifTEA catch-up with Ana, Lacey, and Amy as Taylor Swift drops the Opalite music video—and the Swiftie world goes into instant investigation mode. We break down first reactions, hidden metaphors, the potential mall comeback, rock vs. cactus discourse, and the Easter eggs fans are already clocking. We also discuss other Taylor Swift news, including Grammy after-party sightings, Jack Antonoff rumors, the Travis Kelce confession, the celebrity beef no one saw coming, and why fans are once again spiraling over what Taylor might be teasing next. It’s a classic SwifTEA episode—part deep dive, part Swiftie group chat—as we catch up, connect the dots, and spiral just enough. With even more Opalite theories already forming and bigger conversations ahead, consider this the warm-up before the real breakdowns begin. Grab your tea, keep the volume up, and we’ll see you in the next episode. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 2/3/26 |  Ana’s Solo Show: Swiftie Questions, Deep Feels & Revisiting the Eras | This week on 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast, we’re doing something a little different. Due to a winter storm hitting Texas and throwing off recording schedules, Ana hops on the mic for a special solo Swiftie Q&A episode—and it ended up feeling like a warm, one-on-one check-in with the community. After opening up questions on Instagram, Ana answers everything from which Taylor Swift album she’d relive for the first time, to top five albums right now, to which songs she skips (yes, it depends on the mood). She reflects on the magic of hearing Midnights for the first time, revisits beloved eras like Red, Speak Now, and 1989, and shares why The Tortured Poets Department continues to hit differently now that we’re stepping into the Showgirl era. Ana also dives into: What newer Swifties may have missed pre-folklore Dream Taylor Swift music videos that never happened Songs she’d love to break down again Favorite non-Taylor artists she’s listening to right now Whether live events are coming back (Swifties in the City fans, take note!) This solo bonus is equal parts Swiftie nostalgia, thoughtful reflection, and emotional connection, and it sets the stage perfectly for what’s coming next as 13 begins its deep dive into The Life of a Showgirl, starting with Fate of Ophelia. Grab your cardigans, get cozy, and hang out with us—because even when plans change, the Swiftie community always shows up. Stay warm, take care of yourselves, and we’ll see you next week. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at http://BetterHelp.com/TAYLORSWIFTFAN. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 1/27/26 |  Bingo Board 2026 | It’s been a 13 podcast tradition throughout the years.. What do we swiftly predict for this upcoming year for our girl Taylor Swift? Here are our bold predictions for this year.. What do you think she has in store for this year? THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY LIQUID IV Go to https://www.liquid-iv.com and get 20% off your first order with code TAYLORSWIFTFAN at checkout. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 1/20/26 |  The Life of a Showgirl Prelude: The Prologue | Before we rank the songs. Before we dissect lyrics. Before we take a peek behind the curtain… We’re starting where Taylor Swift wanted us to start: the prologue. In this episode of 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast, we gather around the opening poetry of The Life of a Showgirl—the interconnected prologues released across the album’s five variants—and discuss the meaning behind them. These poems aren’t just bonus content. They’re a thesis statement. A behind-the-curtain look at what it means to live, love, perform, endure, and choose this life again and again. We break down each prologue piece by piece, the imagery, the metaphors, and the emotional weight behind lines that pull back the glitter to reveal the cost of show business. This episode unpacks how Taylor frames the entire album before a single song even plays. We discuss:• How the five variant poems form one cohesive story• The physical, emotional, and psychological toll of life onstage• The crowd as comfort and threat• The quiet joy and grounding love woven into the chaos• What these poems tell us about where Taylor was—and who she is now This episode is intentionally the foundation for everything to come. It’s the lens through which the rest of The Life of a Showgirl should be heard. If you’ve ever skipped the prologue, this is your sign not to. And if you’ve read it before, trust us—you haven’t heard it like this. Pull up a chair.Read between the lines.The curtain is officially up. The Life of a Showgirl era begins here. This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at http://BetterHelp.com/TAYLORSWIFTFAN. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 1/13/26 | Initial Rankings — The Life of a Showgirl | It’s time for the 13 Podcast to officially enter into The Life of a Showgirl era! Before we deep-dive into lyrics, theories, Easter eggs, and emotional devastation, we’re doing what we always do first: initial song rankings. In this kickoff episode for The Life of a Showgirl, we’re sharing our initial song rankings—the raw, unfiltered reactions that come after listening to a new Taylor Swift album on repeat and trusting your gut in this moment, because our rankings constantly change. We break down where each track landed right now, what surprised us most on first listen, which songs instantly felt like standouts, and which ones we know are quietly waiting to grow into obsessions. Some rankings were obvious. Others shocked even us. And yes—this is the episode we’ll absolutely look back on later and say, “How did we ever rank it THAT low?” This episode sets the foundation for everything to come this album cycle:• how the album feels as a complete body of work• early favorites vs. slow burns• production moments that grabbed us immediately• emotional highs, unexpected turns, and first-impression hot takes• predictions for which songs will age into fan favorites If you’re listening along and ranking the album yourself, this episode is your invitation to pause, reflect, and compare notes—because initial rankings are a time capsule. They capture who you are, where you are, and how the music meets you in that exact moment. Whether you agree with us completely or are already yelling at your speaker, this is where the Showgirl era officially begins. Hit play, lock in your rankings, and get ready—we’re just getting started. THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY LIQUID IV Go to https://www.liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code TAYLORSWIFTFAN at checkout. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 1/6/26 | 2025 Bingo Board Recap | This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at http://BetterHelp.com/TAYLORSWIFTFAN. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/30/25 |  Ana's Chiefs Game Recap! | What happens when Swiftie dreams collide with the NFL spotlight? In this episode of 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast, Ana shares the surreal, whirlwind experience of attending a Kansas City Chiefs game with seats directly in front of Travis Kelce’s suite—and yes, Taylor Swift was there. From a last-minute invite from a listener to flying in for less than 24 hours, Ana breaks down the full timeline of how this bucket-list moment came together. The hosts dive into the now-iconic crossover of Swifties and Chiefs Kingdom, what it’s like to experience Arrowhead Stadium for the first time, and the undeniable energy shift when Taylor arrives. You’ll hear: What it’s really like sitting just feet away from Taylor Swift at an NFL game How Chiefs fans, stadium security, and the Kelce family handled the chaos A candid look at fame, privacy, and why respecting Taylor’s space matters Emotional reflections on Taylor’s lyrics about peace, visibility, and public life Tailgating in Kansas City, fan reactions (good and bad), and a once-in-a-lifetime souvenir from Papa Swift This episode offers a rare, human perspective on celebrity culture, fandom, and what it means to witness Taylor Swift simply trying to enjoy a football game while the world watches. Whether you’re a lifelong Swiftie, a new Chiefs fan, or fascinated by the Taylor-Travis era, this conversation is heartfelt, eye-opening, and unforgettable. Subscribe, leave a review, and join us as we close out the year with stories only Swifties could tell. 💌 Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: 👉 station.page/13 📲 Contact the Podcast 🎤 Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 📧 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com 📸 Instagram: @the13podcast 🎶 TikTok: @the13podcast 🐦 Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast ▶️ YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast 👯 Follow the Hosts ✨ Ana – @anaszabo13 ✨ Lacey – @laceygee13 ✨ Amy – @amysnichols ✨ Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/23/25 |  Book Plot Song Challenge! | Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/16/25 |  Taylor Swift’s Birthday Extravaganza: The Eras Documentary, Colbert Interview & The Authenticity | It’s Taylor Swift’s birthday, and somehow she’s the one giving us gifts. In this episode of 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast, we dive headfirst into the first two episodes of Taylor’s Eras Tour documentary and her revealing, hilarious, and emotionally loaded appearance on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert. We unpack everything: the overwhelming emotion behind the Eras Tour, the responsibility Taylor carries as a global icon, the heartbreak and resilience surrounding Vienna, and the quiet moments that show who she really is when the spotlight dims. From backstage tears to bonus-day generosity, from Mirrorball validation to the power of audiobooks as emotional armor — nothing is off limits. Plus, we talk reputation rumors, surprise lyric changes, Swiftie clownery, Travis Kelce crumbs, dancer spotlights, and why Taylor’s confidence still makes people uncomfortable (and why it absolutely shouldn’t). This episode is joyful, heavy, validating, chaotic, and deeply human — just like Taylor herself.Happy birthday, Taylor. Thanks for once again reminding us why we picked the right one. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/9/25 |  Taylor Swift’s Songwriting Hall of Fame: Our Five-Song Draft Picks | Taylor Swift is officially nominated for the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and our own panel of Swifties are celebrating the only way we know how — by turning it into a competitive draft. But there’s a catch... We cannot pick any of the five songs Taylor submitted herself. In this episode of 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast, Nick, Ana, Amy, and Lacey each take turns drafting their personal five-song lineup that they believe best represents Taylor’s songwriting mastery — from lyrical gut-punches to iconic storytelling to pop perfection. And once someone chooses a song, it’s off the table forever. Yes… feelings are hurt. Strategies crumble, and the TTPD gloves come off! Hear our passionate defenses, surprising picks, heated moments over a fan fav snack size song, and even a little friendly chaos over drafting order. We cover everything from classics like Our Song and You Belong With Me to deep-cut heartbreakers, folklore masterpieces, and songs that showcase her evolution from teenage prodigy to generational songwriter. We also ask: Which songs should represent Taylor’s entire 20-year career? Which of her lyrics hit hardest for Songwriters Hall of Fame voters? And why didn’t any of us pick something from a particular album… yet? Stick around to hear everyone’s final five-song sets — and tell us yours! Subscribe, share your picks with us, and let’s manifest Taylor becoming the youngest inductee ever. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/5/25 | SwifTEA: Will Ana See Taylor Swift At Arrowhead? | Tune in this Sunday for the Chiefs game to see Taylor Swift.... AND ANA!!! In a crazy, spontaneous, marvelous situation, Ana has found an opportunity to go to Arrowhead Stadium and join Chiefs Kingdom with a fellow Swiftie! Hear all about how it's happened, what her plans are, and help her come up with a sign or prepare on the possibility of seeing Taylor! PLUS, our very own producer, Juliana, is in town and joins the podcast to give us some updates about her life, her fangirl career, and more!! Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
| 12/2/25 |  evermore: Final Rankings + Our Emotional Goodbye to an Underrated Era | We finally did it — after months of deep dives, Easter eggs, lyric dissections, and emotional spirals, the 13 crew is closing out evermore with our official Top 5 Final Rankings. And yes… there are surprising changes and even some debuts on our lists! In this episode, Nick, Ana, Amy, and Lacey each reveal the five songs that stood the test of time — and the ones that got bumped, resurrected, or dragged back onto the list after our full album breakdown. Some of us stayed loyal. Some of us shocked the room. And some of us issued formal apologies to songs we’ve overlooked for way too long. We talk: The songs that hit harder after months of analysis The surprising tracks that became brand-new favorites Why some rankings changed and others stayed rock solid How breaking down the album made us love it in a deeper way Our honest final thoughts on Evermore as a full body of work Plus, we play your incredible voicemails and kick off the energy for what’s coming next: Taylor Swift’s The Life of a Showgirl era. If you're someone who believes Evermore deserved more than it got, you'll feel right at home in this episode. Subscribe so you don’t miss our full deep-dive breakdown of The Life of a Showgirl — the era Taylor says captures the heart of the Eras Tour. THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BYE AURA For a limited time, save on the perfect gift by visiting http://AuraFrames.com to get $35 off Aura’s best-sellingCarver Mat frames - named #1 by Wirecutter - by using promo code TAYLORSWIFTFAN at checkout. THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY QUINCE Go to http://Quince.com/taylorswiftfan for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY RUFF GREENS Go to http://RuffGreens.com and use promo code TAYLORSWIFTFAN. Stay Connected with 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Join the conversation in our exclusive Lobster Lounge: station.page/13 Contact the Podcast Voicemail: (689) 214-1313 Email: the13podcast@gmail.com Instagram: @the13podcast TikTok: @the13podcast Twitter/X: @the13TSpodcast YouTube: 13: A Taylor Swift Fan Podcast Follow the Hosts Ana – @anaszabo13 Lacey – @laceygee13 Amy – @amysnichols Nick – @heynickadams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. | — | ||||||
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Chart Positions
3 placements across 3 markets.
Chart Positions
3 placements across 3 markets.