Chalk & Talk

In this episode, Anna is joined by Dr. Montserrat Gomendio, former Deputy Director for Education at the OECD, to discuss the newly released PISA 2025 results. They explore why student achievement is falling in many countries. They discuss whether COVID, smartphones, and AI explain the declines, why some education systems are holding up better than others, and what policymakers can learn from countries that are seeing better results. They also answer questions from listeners that were submitted during a livestream version of the episode. Chalk & Talk website: www.chalkandtalkpodcast.com This episode is available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke TIMESTAMPS[00:00:04] - Introduction: PISA 2025 and student achievement[00:05:41] - Why did reading become the dominant PISA story?[00:08:23] - Do phones, digital technology, and AI explain the decline?[00:14:54] - Did COVID and school closures cause the decline?[00:20:58] - What can England teach us about education policy after COVID?[00:22:14] – Scores started declining before COVID[00:27:35] - What do top-performing education systems have in common?[00:34:32] - What makes effective teacher training?[00:39:59] - How can countries improve teacher quality in the short term?[00:45:24] - Why evidence-based professional development matters[00:48:10] - What can countries learn from England’s approach to math?[00:51:22] - What should teachers do when they disagree with their training?[00:56:10] – How to encourage teachers to change[00:59:14] - How should schools design a knowledge-rich curriculum?[01:03:35] - What makes an effective math curriculum?[01:06:44] - Does PISA data hide differences between education systems?[01:10:41] - What does the OECD get wrong about interpreting PISA data?[01:16:14] – Finland: PISA declines and bad advice about following Finland[01:21:54] - Final thoughts EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://chalkandtalkpodcast.com/episode/ep-81/ RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES (linking to website) The Story Behind Mississippi’s Education Turnaround with Rachel Cantehttps://chalkandtalkpodcast.com/episode/ep-76/ The Finland myth, East Asia’s rise, and what makes education systems work with Montserrat Gomendiohttps://chalkandtalkpodcast.com/episode/ep-68/ When a mathematician became education minister: Nuno Crato on transforming educationhttps://chalkandtalkpodcast.com/episode/ep-58/ From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibbhttps://chalkandtalkpodcast.com/episode/ep-49/ MUSICIntro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic Website: http://www.chalkandtalkpodcast.com/FB: Chalk & TalkIG: @chalkandtalkpodcastTiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcastX: @rastokkeLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4cBluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

In this episode, Anna talks with Dr. George Georgiou, an educational psychologist and professor in the Faculty of Education at the University of Alberta, whose work focuses on preventing and remediating reading difficulties. The episode explores recent Human Rights Commission investigations in Canadian provinces that examined why students haven’t been taught to read using effective, evidence-based, methods–what the inquiries uncovered, and how the situation deteriorated to this point. They also discuss George’s research on reading difficulties and his eye-opening study that revealed the gaps in pre-service teachers’ knowledge of language and literacy. They talk about recent reforms in Alberta, including the rollout of universal literacy screening–what the results have shown so far, and how parents and schools are responding. This conversation really highlights what’s possible when research, policy, and practice come together. As always, Anna advocates that math deserves the same attention as reading. It’s a must-listen for educators and policymakers worldwide. This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke Supporting the Right to Read in Manitoba (Manitoba Human Rights Commission, 2025) https://www.manitobahumanrights.ca/education/pdf/public-consultations/supportingrighttoread.pdf TIMESTAMPS [00:00:22] Introduction [00:01:09] Findings from the Manitoba Human Rights Commission [00:06:02] George Georgiou’s research background [00:08:02] The Right to Read Human Rights Reports in Canada [00:12:11] Thoughts on the Right to Read reports [00:16:26] Similarities with math [00:17:07] Good curriculum that focuses on foundational skills [00:19:31] The study: Pre-service Teachers’ Knowledge of Language and Literacy Concepts [00:27:39] Results of the Human Rights Report in post-secondary education [00:29:46] Reaction to the study: Pre-service Teachers’ Knowledge of Language and Literacy Concepts [00:30:39] The Alberta English Language Arts curriculum [00:32:56] Is the new curriculum working? [00:37:31] What is universal screening? [00:44:50] What are the free assessments? [00:48:46] Findings of the assessments [00:53:38] Communicating the results to parents [00:54:34] Criticism on the screening process and results [01:00:40] Reading intervention programs [01:05:33] Final Thoughts: The future of early screening and intervention in Canada [01:09:02] Final Thoughts: What role should universities play in preparing teachers? RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES How advocacy is changing reading instruction with Jamie Metsala https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/how-advocacy-is-changing-reading-instruction-with-jamie-metsala/ Using evidence in education with Pamela Snow https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/using-evidence-in-education-with-pamela-snow-ep-27/ Reading and math: parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/ep-20-reading-and-math-parallels-and-pitfalls-with-matthew-burns/ Universal screening in math with Amanda VanDerHeyden https://chalkandtalkpodcast.podbean.com/e/universal-screening-in-math-with-amanda-vanderheyden-ep-50/ EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.annastokke.com/resources/ep-59-resources EPISODE TRANSCRIPT https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-59-transcript MUSIC Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic Website: www.annastokke.com X: @rastokke LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social