Cults, Culture & Coercion with Dr. Steve Hassan

Detransitioning, a term for stopping, shifting, or reversing an initial gender transition, is a word that has been stripped of its human meaning by the political forces fighting over it. Last week, I shared my interview with Dr. Kinnon Ross MacKinnon, a trans researcher at York University whose landmark DARE study surveyed 957 people who had detransitioned. MacKinnon’s data show that the detransitioners he interviewed are not a single monolith with identical motivations, but rather four distinct groups with distinct sets of needs. Despite this emerging research, the Trump administration now attempts to justify banning care for everyone, a flagrant distortion of what the science shows we should do to support those who are both transgender and those who wish to detransition. During our discussions, MacKinnon recommended I speak with Alexander Linkowski, whom he described as a thoughtful voice from inside the detransition experience. Alexander is a 32-year-old philosopher, transhumanist, and YouTuber based in Norway. He lived as a trans woman for approximately three years before detransitioning and is currently completing a book on detransition and identity. He realized he was neurodiverse. Alexander’s story is not political ammunition for either side. It is one person’s vulnerable story, told with honesty and philosophical depth, and it deserves to be heard on its own terms. Alexander grew up in Poland, a deeply conservative Catholic country where 1950s ideals of masculinity and femininity shaped sex education. He described being bullied at school and told repeatedly he was “not a real man,” feeling profound discomfort in his body from early childhood, something he now understands as connected to his autism diagnosis, which he received as an adult. Living within a homophobic society, Alexander also described deep shame around his attraction to other males, buried for years. “Everything led me to believe that life would be easier, life would be better, if I lived socially as a woman.” He transitioned medically and socially at 19. Based on the DARE study, Alexander’s experience maps closely onto what MacKinnon describes as the first pathway to detransition. These are people who detransitioned with strong decisional regret, who often reported that their clinical care was not thorough enough, and fewer than half of whom felt they received adequate decision-making support before they began. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Bill Eddy has authored more than 20 books on high‑conflict personalities and disputes. He wants Americans, and societies everywhere, to keep a simple mantra in mind: “fantasy crisis, fantasy villain, fantasy hero with fantasy solutions.” Whenever we encounter another wave of chaos from the Trump administration or any potentially abusive elected official, this phrase helps us recognize the manufactured narratives at play. It highlights the endless cycle of contrived trauma spun by those in power, while also providing a mental shield against the constant barrage of fear, anger, intimidation, and hidden agendas driven by money or power. Bill is a therapist, lawyer, and mediator, and he serves as co‑founder and Chief Innovation Officer of the High Conflict Institute. The institute’s mission is to make “high‑conflict behavior manageable—even when it feels impossible.” Their “About” page explains that they “equip professionals with proven skills to navigate high‑conflict behaviors in any setting—confidently, ethically, and effectively.” Bill has also created practical tools such as the CARS Method®, BIFF Response®, EAR Statements™, and the New Ways® series, which are used to train others to regain control in high‑conflict situations. The Importance of Focused and Refined Messaging in Politics Bill understands how powerful words, repeated phrases, and tightly crafted messages can be in countering high‑conflict personalities such as narcissists and sociopaths. He argues that the Democratic Party must coordinate and sharpen its messaging to confront Trump. “What I find is Democratic politicians have hundreds of ideas, hundreds of words, but they haven’t settled on anything repetitive,” he said, “and that’s where we get into what we both talk about is the emotional mind.” Bill notes that Trump excels at creating short, memorable slogans that stick in voters’ minds. “You target the emotional mind with these really short, you know, build the wall, send them back, those kinds of phrases, and the Democrats are saying similar stuff, but all different words,” Bill explained. I asked Bill to discuss some of the basic rules in dealing with narcissistic personalities in conflict situations. He noted that trying to give them insight into their behavior often doesn’t help. Neither does focusing on the past. “You’ll never agree on the past. You'll just argue forever about the past, because they may be totally committed to something that you can totally show as false, but they’re locked into that,” he said’ We discussed Trump’s obsession with the 2020 election results and his focus on rewriting past history so that he has a win, for instance. Lastly, Bill advised against name-calling or attempting to confront the narcissist on their emotions. Bill then focused on what we should be using, like the CARS Method® “C for connecting A, for analyzing, R, for responding as for setting limits” or using EAR Statements™ where E is for Empathy, A is for Analyzing and R is for Respect. He gave an example, “So if somebody’s angry and they're pointing a finger at you, and they're saying, ‘Bill, you’re an idiot, and you don’t know what you’re talking about,’ then I would say, ‘Wow, well, I can hear you’re really upset. Let’s look at what we can do here. Let’s analyze what’s going on, what we can do here.’” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett on Two Decades of Tracking the NAR’s Apostles and Prophets You walk into a church on Sunday morning. The worship band plays songs you’ve heard on Christian radio for years. The lyrics feel familiar, uplifting. What you don’t realize is that the words you’re singing were written to export a specific theology from a single church in Redding, California, one whose leadership claims direct prophetic authority from God. The church is Bethel. The movement behind it is the New Apostolic Reformation. And according to researchers Holly Pivec and Doug Geivett, who have spent over two decades studying this movement from inside Christian scholarship, it represents a radical departure from historic Christianity that is reshaping churches, politics, and millions of lives worldwide. I sat down with Holly and Doug on a recent episode of Cults, Culture & Coercion to discuss their latest book, Reckless Christianity: The Destructive New Teachings and Practices of Bill Johnson, Bethel Church, and the Global Movement of Apostles and Prophets. I’ve written about the New Apostolic Reformation in The Cult of Trump and interviewed researchers like André Gagné and Frederick Clarkson on these topics. Holly and Doug bring an essential angle: they are committed Christians sounding the alarm from within the faith, grounded in biblical scholarship and philosophy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rachel Bernstein is a licensed marriage‑and‑family therapist in Los Angeles and a seasoned cult specialist with more than 35 years of experience. Rachel specializes in helping individuals exit authoritarian cults and narcissistic relationships and begin healing. She works on a one-on-one basis, hosts group therapy sessions, and speaks more broadly through education and media appearances. Rachel also hosts the weekly podcast, IndoctriNation, which explores cults, manipulators, and strategies for protecting oneself from systems of control. Over the course of the show, she has interviewed hundreds of cult survivors, journalists, and experts. Through the years, I’ve had the pleasure of working with Rachel on cases, witnessing firsthand the depth of her expertise and her commitment to empowering survivors. “I never thought this would be happening in the United States, that people would be looking for ways to escape for their safety,” Rachel observed of recent national events. We discussed the assaults on peaceful protesters and the recent killing of Nicole Good and Alex Pretti. Rachel noted that her own children, who are within the trans community, worried about their personal safety, and many in different communities are looking for routes of citizenship to other countries. Rachel also noted the quote from Kamala Harris about Trump turning the military against his own country, and how that was once deemed “hysterical”; now, it is spot-on predictive. Her newest book, Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation, combines psychoeducation, therapist notes, journaling prompts, and integration practices into a self‑paced guide for individuals emerging or healing from a manipulative relationship. The accompanying Companion Notebook offers additional activities and provides space for personal reflection and notes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For many Americans, untangling today’s U.S. politics feels especially tough because the rise of religious‑right conservatism can seem sudden and ominous. Without a grounding in religious history and its influence on American political development over time, sweeping dominionist initiatives like Project 2025, fringe movements such as QAnon, and shadowy organizations like the Heritage Foundation may appear to come out of thin air. Fortunately, author and fundamentalist‑politics expert Keri L. Ladner, Ph.D., guides listeners back through the archives, tracing these phenomena to roots that reach back to the late 1800s. Ladner, who earned her doctorate in Divinity from the University of Edinburgh, is the author of End‑Time Politics: From the Moral Majority to QAnon (2024). The book maps the evolution of conservative Christianity, from its use of prophecy and rapture‑focused visions to the rise of figures like Jerry Falwell. She shows how those ideas have mutated over decades, ultimately feeding the ideologies that underpin today’s Trump‑era regime. Ladner first explained that the type of religious movements she specializes in is not the same as what was known as ‘Christianity’ before the late 1800s. “The movements that I’m looking into are very new. They’re very new offshoots of Christianity, specifically of Protestantism, American evangelicalism. They did not begin to develop in a form that we would recognize today until the late 1800s,” she explained. Her doctoral thesis essentially covered Jerry Falwell and the theological system known as dispensationalism, a historical movement she connects to John Nelson Darby, a 19th-century religious leader. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Frank R. George is an internationally recognized authority in psychology, neuroscience, narcissism, and addiction. Through his Substack newsletter, The Gaslight Report, he demystifies pathological narcissism, explores its underlying causes, and offers practical strategies that readers can apply in their own lives. Over many years, his research has spanned neuroanatomy, neurochemistry, and genetics as they relate to the field of addictions. He currently ranks among the top 1% of Google Scholars worldwide, with nearly 200 publications and over 30 patents. Additionally, he has received almost 4,000 citations for his work in the scientific literature. Dr. George explained that there is a growing amount of scientific evidence showing an overlap between symptoms of addiction and traits of narcissism, even to the extent that functional MRI reveals distinct neural activation patterns in individuals with that personality type. Similarly, withdrawal patterns appear when the person does not receive their preferred types of attention. “What do you see when a narcissist is not getting all that supply? They go through what’s called narcissistic rage, narcissistic collapse, and it just overlaps with withdrawal,” he said. This is a really important interview shedding light on Trump and other malignant narcissist cult leaders. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Cults and high-control groups often use sexuality to access and manipulate a person’s emotional regulation. Some cults, like the Moonies, used it to create a barrier of fear and shame surrounding sexual thoughts or actions. Ellen Huet’s new book Empire of Orgasm explores how OneTaste, Inc. and its founder Nicole Daedone used the topic of Orgasmic Meditation to challenge boundaries and minimize taboos through coercive practices and were ultimately convicted of a forced labor conspiracy. Ellen Huet is an award-winning investigative journalist currently writing for Bloomberg News and Bloomberg Businessweek. She also hosts the narrative audio series Foundering, from Bloomberg Technology. In recent seasons, she has worked on topics such as WeWork and OpenAI, as well as examining the trustworthiness of OpenAI’s leader, Sam Altman. The 2022 Netflix documentary called Orgasm, Inc.: The Story of OneTaste featured her investigative journalism about the group. Her reporting has also been cited in news outlets such as The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, Slate, and many others. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices