The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

How do we determine when a learner has truly mastered a skill? In behavior analysis, performance criteria such as "80% correct across two sessions" have become nearly ubiquitous. Yet despite their widespread use, many practitioners may be surprised to learn that these criteria have relatively little direct empirical support. In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Sarah Richling and Dr. Daniel Fienup to discuss the history, research, and practical implications of mastery criteria in applied behavior analysis. Drawing on their independent lines of research, Sarah and Dan examine how different criterion levels influence skill maintenance and why behavior analysts should think carefully about what constitutes meaningful mastery. We begin by defining the terminology surrounding mastery and performance criteria and explore several important dimensions that are often overlooked, including criterion level, criterion frequency, supplementary variables, and units of analysis. The conversation then turns to the origins of the commonly used 80% and 90% thresholds. Although these criteria appear throughout ABA training and practice, Sarah and Dan explain that their widespread adoption may owe more to tradition than to empirical validation. We also discuss findings from their research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria. Their studies suggest that higher performance criteria may produce stronger maintenance outcomes under some conditions, but they emphasize that practitioners should resist the temptation to adopt a new universal rule. Along the way, we explore: The distinction between mastery criteria and performance criteria. Why "80% correct" became so common in ABA. Historical influences from early behavior analytic and educational research. Research comparing 50%, 80%, and 90% mastery criteria. The relationship between mastery criteria and long-term maintenance. Why some behaviors may require near-perfect performance. The importance of considering the natural environment when setting performance standards. How units of analysis can affect instructional decision making. The risks of relying on aggregated data when teaching multiple skills. Generalization, maintenance, and supplementary variables. Lessons from Precision Teaching regarding fluency and functional mastery. Why performance criteria should be individualized rather than universally prescribed. Research opportunities for practitioners and graduate students interested in instructional design. Throughout the discussion, Sarah and Dan make a compelling case for moving beyond inherited rules and toward a more individualized, evidence-based approach to instructional decision making. Whether you're designing skill acquisition programs, supervising trainees, or simply curious about the assumptions that shape everyday practice, this episode offers a thoughtful examination of one of the most common—and least questioned—features of behavior analytic instruction. About the Guests Dr. Sarah Richling Sarah Richling is a Clinical Associate Professor at Auburn University and serves as Director of Auburn's Master's Program in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has more than two decades of experience as a practitioner, researcher, and educator, with interests spanning instructional design, performance criteria, and effective teaching practices. Dr. Daniel Fienup Dan Fienup is a behavior analyst and researcher whose work has focused on instructional variables that affect skill acquisition, maintenance, and educational outcomes. His research on mastery criteria has helped clarify the relationship between performance standards and long-term retention of learned skills. Resources Mentioned in This Episode Fienup and Carr (2021). The use of performance criteria for determining "mastery" in discrete-trial instruction: A call for research. Fuller and Fienup (2018). A Preliminary Analysis of Mastery Criterion Level: Effects on Response Maintenance. Richling, Fienup, and Wong (2023). Establishing Performance Criteria for Skill Mastery. VanDevander, Warner, Kazemi, and Famie (2023). Creating a reference range of common problem behaviors and replacement behaviors in neurotypical children. Vladescu, Gureghian, Goodwyn, and Campanaro (2020). Comparing skill acquisition under different stimulus set sizes with children with autism spectrum disorder: A replication. Conditioning Books as Reinforcers: How to Increase Reading Engagement in Young Children: Inside JABA 26. Sponsor Shoutouts! Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! Safety-Care is a crisis prevention and de-escalation training program designed for professionals who support individuals with challenging behavior. More than 300,000 professionals have been trained in Safety-Care's evidence-based approach to recognizing early warning signs and responding with confidence. To learn more, visit QBS.com/podcast. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In Session 331, I sat down with Dr. Ben Seifert to talk about some of the most challenging — and important — work happening in applied behavior analysis today: supporting individuals with severe problem behavior. Ben shared his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences at Lindamood-Bell and later at BACA under the mentorship of Carl Sundberg and others who helped shape his clinical perspective. Along the way, we discussed what originally drew him toward working with clients who many providers often avoid, and why he remains deeply committed to ensuring that all individuals have access to meaningful, compassionate support. We spent a good amount of time talking about trends in the ABA marketplace, including the growing difficulty families face when trying to access services for older learners or individuals with significant behavioral challenges. Ben offered thoughtful commentary on how insurance systems, staffing pressures, and private equity may be influencing the types of services many organizations are willing to provide. Ben also shared several fascinating clinical stories that highlight the importance of long-term relationship building, careful observation, and interdisciplinary collaboration. One particularly memorable discussion centered around learning to identify subtle behavioral indicators of physical discomfort that would have been easy to miss in a traditional assessment framework. Toward the second half of the conversation, we shifted into supervision, staff training, and burnout prevention. Ben made a compelling point that supervisors should think of new staff members almost like new learners — people who require shaping, reinforcement, feedback, and support rather than immediate criticism when challenges arise. We also talked openly about clinician mental health, psychological safety within organizations, and the importance of creating environments where people can ask for help. Finally, Ben shared advice for newly certified BCBAs, including the importance of collaboration, humility, and learning from the frontline staff who often know clients best. This was a thoughtful and deeply practical conversation that I think clinicians, supervisors, and graduate students alike will get a lot out of. In this episode, we discuss: Ben's path into behavior analysis Early mentorship experiences at BACA His early career experiences at the Central Texas Autism Center What led him to found Collaborate ABA Why severe problem behavior services are becoming harder to access Insurance and marketplace pressures affecting clinical care The importance of interdisciplinary collaboration Clinical case examples involving subtle behavioral indicators Long-term relationship building with clients and families Supervision strategies for supporting RBTs and frontline staff Staff burnout and mental health Advice for newly certified BCBAs Reach out to Ben on LinkedIn, or follow Collaborate ABA in Instagram! Sponsor shoutouts! Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! The 2026 Behavior Supports in Schools Conference. This conference is designed for the educators, administrators, and staff who support students' behavioral health, social-emotional needs, and behavioral challenges. Both in-person and online attendees will have the opportunity to network with colleagues and learn innovative, evidence-based approaches to supporting children in school settings. It's taking place in Tumwater, WA and virtually via BehaviorLive on 5/29/26. I have the honor of presenting the keynote address, and there are many other great topics that will be discussed throughout the day, so I hope to see you there! CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

In Session 329, I'm joined once again by Dr. Nick Green, Ph.D., BCBA-D, who's been doing some really interesting work at the intersection of fitness and behavior science. In this episode, Nick walks us through the basics of heart rate training zones and why simply "working out" isn't always enough. We talk about the general recommendation of 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity per week, but more importantly, how to make sure that time is actually spent in the right zones—particularly Zones 2 through 4—where you're going to see real cardiovascular benefits. From there, we get into VO2 max, what it is, why it matters, and how you can measure or estimate it—even without access to a lab. Nick also shares some practical training strategies, including the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, which is a structured way to improve cardiovascular fitness through intervals of high-intensity work followed by recovery. As you might expect, we also spend a good amount of time talking about behavior. Why is it so hard for people to stick with an exercise routine? What gets in the way? And how can we apply behavior-analytic principles to improve adherence? Nick makes a compelling case for the role of planning and accountability. One of the things he's seen in his coaching practice is that when people invest in structured support, they're much more likely to follow through. We talk about how environmental variables, scheduling, and clear contingencies can make or break a fitness routine. This was a really practical conversation—whether you're a behavior analyst looking to apply these principles to your own life, or just someone trying to get a little more consistent with exercise. If you're interested in working with Nick or learning more about his coaching services, be sure to check out his website, which you can find in the resource list below: BehaviorFit.com (Nick's website; check out his courses here!) Nick on LinkedIn BehaviorFit's Instagram Nick's previous BOP Interviews: Session 47, Session 105, and Session 132 Fogel, et al. (2010). The effects of exergaming on physical activity among inactive children in a physical education classroom. Green, et al. (2016). Decreasing bouts of prolonged sitting among office workers. Heart Rate Training 101 Heart Rate Zone Calculator Norwegian 4X4 Study Norwegian 4X4 20-Year Heart-Age Reduction Study High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) effects on VO2 Max Sponsor Shoutouts! Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

Comportamiento, espacio y algoritmos: Análisis de la conducta recargado En este episodio de Espacio y Comportamiento, Miguel Avila conversa con Alejandro León sobre una dimensión del comportamiento que históricamente ha sido poco explorada en nuestro campo: el espacio. Más allá de medir cuándo ocurre una conducta o cuántas veces se presenta, esta conversación propone mirar dónde ocurre, cómo nos movemos en el ambiente y cómo los patrones de acercamiento, alejamiento y trayectoria espacial organizan el comportamiento. Alejandro comparte su recorrido poco convencional desde la ingeniería y las matemáticas hacia la psicología científica y el análisis de la conducta, así como el papel clave que tuvo la experimentación, la interdisciplinariedad y la creatividad metodológica en su carrera. A lo largo del episodio exploramos cómo herramientas modernas como la visión por computadora, el análisis tridimensional del movimiento, los algoritmos matemáticos y las bioseñales (como la variabilidad cardíaca en tiempo real) están permitiendo un "análisis de la conducta recargado": fiel a sus principios, pero expandido por nuevas tecnologías. La conversación aterriza estos conceptos en aplicaciones prácticas para contextos clínicos, educativos y de investigación, mostrando cómo analistas de conducta —sin convertirse en ingenieros— pueden empezar a integrar el análisis espacial, colaborar con otras disciplinas y mejorar la evaluación, el diseño de ambientes y la prevención de riesgos. Un episodio inspirador para la comunidad latinoamericana y global, que demuestra que es posible innovar, producir ciencia de alto impacto y dialogar con otras disciplinas desde nuestra región hacia el mundo. Behavior, Space, and Algorithms: Behavior Analysis Reloaded In this episode of Space and Behavior, Miguel Avila sits down with Alejandro León to explore a dimension of behavior that has long been overlooked in our field: space. Rather than focusing only on when behavior occurs or how often it happens, this conversation invites us to examine where behavior unfolds, how organisms move through environments, and how spatial patterns of approach, avoidance, and trajectories organize behavior over time. Alejandro shares his unconventional journey from engineering and mathematics into scientific psychology and behavior analysis, highlighting the role of experimental work, interdisciplinary collaboration, and methodological creativity. The episode dives into how modern tools—such as computer vision, three-dimensional motion tracking, mathematical algorithms, and physiological signals like real-time heart rate variability—are making it possible to study behavior in ways that were unimaginable during the time of Watson, Thorndike, or Skinner. The result is a "reloaded" behavior analysis: conceptually rigorous, yet technologically expanded. Listeners will also hear concrete examples of how spatial data and bio-signals can inform functional assessment, environmental design, intervention planning, safety, and early detection of behavioral patterns—without requiring clinicians to become engineers. This episode is both practical and inspirational, especially for researchers, students, and practitioners in Latin America and beyond, showing that meaningful innovation in behavior analysis can emerge locally while achieving global scientific impact.

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Alice Shillingsburg about her work on rapport building and pairing procedures in applied behavior analysis for children with autism. We explore how building therapeutic rapport goes beyond simply "liking someone," emphasizing the importance of establishing trust and engagement to facilitate learning, especially when tasks are challenging. Alice explains the nine-stage pairing protocol she developed and highlights how careful timing, observation, and reinforcement choices can make pairing effective. We discuss the significance of observing children's approach behaviors to understand their preferences and keep therapy engaging, as well as how instructional fading can gradually increase task difficulty without creating aversive experiences. During our conversation, we took a quick sidebar to talk about the upcoming Verbal Behavior Conference. This is a conference like none other. Whether you participate online or make the short drive to Austin, you'll be treated to very in-depth talks about generative learning for individuals with Autism and related disabilities. Learn more and register here. We also dive into practical applications — how pairing and instructional procedures can be adapted in real-world therapy settings, while still maintaining their effectiveness. Alice talks about data collection strategies for engagement and behavior, including the importance of tracking approach behaviors, avoidance, and other signals of a child's readiness. Finally, we consider the sustainability of pairing procedures over time and potential directions for future research, including investigating methods of instructional fading and tracking gestural communication development in children with autism. Resources Mentioned Shillingsburg, et al. (2019). Rapport Building and Instructional Fading Prior to Discrete Trial Instruction: Moving From Child-Led Play to Intensive Teaching Cariveau, et al. (2020). A Structured Intervention to Increase Response Allocation to Instructional Settings for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder Shillingsburg, et al. (2014). Increasing social approach and decreasing social avoidance in children with autism spectrum disorder during discrete trial training Sponsor Shoutouts The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event. CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25.

In this episode of the Behavioral Observations Podcast, I'm joined by Kim Dean, founder of Apollo Behavior, and Kristen Vaughn, Vice President of Clinical Operations, to talk about what it really takes to build and sustain clinical excellence in autism services. We discuss Apollo's decision to launch in Georgia, their highly selective hiring process, and how values alignment plays a central role in building their culture. Kim and Kristen share how Apollo approaches training differently — including a four-week RBT onboarding program that exceeds certification requirements and a structured mentorship model for BCBAs. The results are notable, with 99% of Apollo's RBTs passing their exams on the first attempt! Even more impressive is that 84% of Apollo-trained BCBAs pass their exam on the first attempt too. Compared to the current average pass rate that hovers around 52-54%, that's simply amazing! We also dig into how Apollo defines and measures clinical excellence, including the use of norm-referenced assessments, family feedback, progress toward less restrictive environments, and ongoing data analysis to improve training and service delivery. This conversation is especially relevant for BCBAs, clinical leaders, and practice owners who are thinking seriously about how to scale services without sacrificing quality — and how to design systems that support clinicians, families, and long-term outcomes. If this sounds like a great work environment to you, and you'd like to learn more, click here. Related BOP Episodes: From Clinician to Leader: Apollo CSS 8 with Kristen Vaughn All previous Apollo Series BOP episodes This podcast is brought to you by: The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. Rather than relying on theory divorced from practice, this conference features presenters who actively operate within classrooms, districts, research settings, and state-level systems. Behavior analysts, educators, researchers, and system leaders come together to examine behavior change from multiple levels of impact — adult behavior, decision-making, values, and the systems that shape outcomes. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event. Office Puzzle: A thriving ABA practice depends on systems that actually support your team, not slow them down. If you've struggled with software that's buggy, hard to navigate, or offers little support when you need it most, you're not alone. That's why so many practices are switching to Office Puzzle. Go to officepuzzle.com/bop to learn more! The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25. CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.

In this episode, I'm joined by John Guercio for a wide-ranging and practical conversation about leadership through a behavioral lens. John and I dig into what it actually means to lead in applied behavior analysis, especially when so much of the existing leadership literature is vague, mentalistic, or disconnected from observable behavior. We start by talking about the need to operationalize leadership in behavioral terms and explore the four leadership hats developed by Dr. Paulie Gavoni: leading, training, coaching, and managing. We break down what each of these roles looks like behaviorally, how they function across time, and why effective leaders need to move flexibly between them rather than relying on a single style. A major theme of the episode is the role of positive reinforcement in leadership. John shares real-world examples from his OBM coursework and his work at Cornerstone Behavioral Services, highlighting how difficult—but necessary—it can be to shift away from punitive and avoidance-based management strategies. We discuss why punishment often "works" in the short term, why leaders continue to rely on it, and how reinforcement-based leadership creates better outcomes for both staff and organizations. We also spend time unpacking the distinction between leadership and management. John reflects on his own strengths and limitations, describing how he focuses on vision and direction while intentionally surrounding himself with strong managers who excel at systems, logistics, and follow-through. This leads to a powerful discussion about positional authority, seniority, and the myth that leadership status entitles people to treat others poorly. Throughout the episode, we return to the importance of psychological safety, consistent feedback, and emotional regulation in leadership roles. John shares practical strategies for navigating tough conversations, including how to balance empathy with accountability, how to manage staff expectations, and how to avoid letting emotion drive professional communication (including when not to send that email). We also talk through concrete tools and exercises for improving leadership practice, such as symbolic problem-solving activities to surface unspoken team issues, written acknowledgment systems, and using assessment tools like the Performance Diagnostic Checklist to guide supervision and coaching. John closes by sharing future directions for developing empirically grounded management assessment tools, along with a preview of his upcoming work and conference presentations. This is a practical, honest conversation for anyone supervising staff, leading teams, or trying to build reinforcing, values-consistent organizations in human services. Resources & Links Mentioned in This Episode RBT Course for Adult Services (the 'bridge' course too!) Sims and Szilagyi (1975). Leader reward behavior and subordinate satisfaction and performance Stone Soup Conference Registration (use code PODCAST26 at checkout) Carr and Wilder (2015). The Performance Diagnostic Checklist—Human Services John's previous BOP appearances Session 274: Psychological Safety in the Workplace (Supervision CEU!) Additional Books, Articles, and Ideas Discussed John's books on Amazon Komaki (1998). Leadership from an Operant Perspective McGregor (1960). The Human Side of Enterprise Daniels and Daniels (2023). The Measure of a Leader Elliot (2012). Leading Apple With Steve Jobs: Management Lessons From a Controversial Genius Covey (2020). The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, 30th Anniversary Edition Harley (2013). How to Say Anything to Anyone Grenny et al. (2021). Crucial Conversations (Third Edition): Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High Sponsor shoutouts! Office Puzzle: A thriving ABA practice depends on systems that actually support your team, not slow them down. If you've struggled with software that's buggy, hard to navigate, or offers little support when you need it most, you're not alone. That's why so many practices are switching to Office Puzzle. Go to officepuzzle.com/bop to learn more! HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. The 2026 Stone Soup Conference! This is one of the best values in the online conference space. I'm actually going to be one of the speakers at this year's event, along with a great cast of other characters you're probably familiar with. Save on your registration by using promo code PODCAST26 Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25. CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here.

Don't adjust your podcast player folks, you have the right show. Welcome to Session 319 of the Behavioral Observations Podcast. If you've been listening for a bit, you know what's coming. If you're new to the show however, first, welcome and thanks for listening. Every year, I team up with my friends from the ABA Inside Track Podcast to do a Year In Review episode. We've tinkered with the format over time, but for this one, we talk briefly about the trends and issues that we thought were important in 2025. From there, we discussed some of the most downloaded shows from our podcasts this year and speculate as to why these ones resonated so much. We close the show talking about how both of our shows are turning 10 years old very soon. So we look back on what we've learned over a decade of podcasting! Today's episode is brought to you by, · Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! · HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. · The 2026 Stone Soup Conference! This is one of the best values in the online conference space. I'm actually going to be one of the speakers at this year's event, along with a great cast of other characters you're probably familiar with. Save on your registration by using promo code PODCAST26! · Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!

In Session 317, I sit down with Dr. Francesca Delia Espinoza to revisit one of the most foundational—but often misunderstood—topics in behavior analysis: eye contact. We explore why eye contact shouldn't be treated as a simple objective, but instead understood within its broader social and developmental context. Francesca explains how eye contact is better re-framed as "eye-looking," and why behavior analysts need a strong conceptual foundation for evaluating when, how, and why to teach it. We discuss her recent paper in Perspectives on Behavior Science, which encourages practitioners to analyze the controlling variables behind eye contact rather than relying on rote teaching procedures. We then shift into the role of eye contact in autism development and early intervention. Francesca discusses how deviations in gaze behavior can influence a child's learning trajectory, and why early, naturally occurring social contingencies can make such a significant difference. We also touch on the potential aversiveness of eye contact for some individuals, and how to navigate that ethically and effectively. Our conversation expands into related research on social media, gaze avoidance, and how adults and children with autism engage differently with eye-related cues online. Francesca also talks about her Substack newsletter, "What Darwin Taught Me," which blends behavioral science with accessible and engaging writing. From there, we explore her creative work in conceptual fiction, including her "Aura" series from her Substack Newsletter — a not-too-distant science-fiction world where behavior analysts work alongside AI systems that analyze sessions, generate programs, and support day-to-day clinical tasks. This leads us into a broader discussion about the role of AI in applied behavior analysis, including its promises, limitations, and the importance of preserving hands-on clinical expertise. Francesca describes one of the short stories in the Aura series about behavior analysts who travel to developing countries, only to realize their reliance on technology becomes a liability when the systems fail. It's a striking reminder that behavior change happens in real time, and nothing replaces skilled human interaction. We close by reflecting on how emerging technologies—AI, automation, and digital platforms—might shape the future of ABA for better or worse. Resources and References Mentioned: Francesca's Substack: "What Darwin Taught Me" (Aura storyline here) Stromberg, et al. (2025). Shaping Social Eye Contact in Children With Autism Via Telehealth: A Parent-Implemented Intervention Skinner (1986): "What Is Wrong With Daily Life in the Western World?" The Craft of Applied Behavior Analysis: Session 181 with Francesca Degli Espinosa Eye Contact, Joint Attention, and Autism: Session 238 with Francesca Degli Espinosa Cline (2012). Ready Player One (pro tip: skip the movie, read the book) The Matrix Sponsor Shoutouts! Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! MindBodyBehavior's Certified Health Coach Program. If you're a BCBA looking to use your ABA skills to help people live healthier lifestyles, learn how to do it the right way, with expert instruction, mentoring, and guidance from Sarah Burby. Better still, podcast listeners can save $$$ by using the code BOP10 at check out. Click here to learn more! HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. The 2026 Stone Soup Conference! This is one of the best values in the online conference space. I'm actually going to be one of the speakers at this year's event, along with a great cast of other characters you're probably familiar with. Save on your registration by using promo code PODCAST26! Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25.

Thanks for joining me in Session 315 of The Behavioral Observations Podcast. In this episode, I spoke with Drs. Gabi Morgan and David Adams to dive deep into trauma-informed behavior analysis. Gabi brings her 30-year journey in the field—from undergrad roots to professorship at Bay Path University—while David shares his evolution from child and family therapy to clinical psychology, with a heavy focus on foster and adoptive parenting. Both guests are passionate about closing the divide between trauma therapy and behavioral strategies, and they credit mentors like Dr. Jeannie Golden for lighting the way. We kick things off by unpacking what trauma really means. In doing so, as a content warning, please be aware that we do make general references to a variety of traumatic and adverse experiences. Having said that, David walks us through SAMHSA's three-part definition: the event, the experience, and the effects. It's not the event itself that defines trauma—it's the individual's response. He introduces "adverse conditioning experiences" as a behavior-analytic twist on adverse childhood experiences (ACEs), spotlighting how negative associations get wired in through conditioning. From there, we contrast PTSD and complex PTSD. Same core symptoms (intrusive thoughts, avoidance, etc.), but complex PTSD adds prolonged exposure and three extra layers: impaired self-worth, rocky relationships, and emotional dysregulation. Gabi drives home a critical point: folks with developmental disabilities are at higher risk for trauma but often fly under the diagnostic radar. We need to get better at spotting trauma-related behaviors in this population. Screening, Brain Science, and Practical Strategies Screening is a big theme. We all agree behavior analysts aren't formally trained in assessment, but we have to be aware of how this is done. Gabi loves the Child Health and Development Institute's Child Trauma Screen (CTS), and the Massachusetts Child and Adolescent Needs and Strengths (Mass CANS) tool. David then nerds out on the neurobiology: trauma affects the amygdala (hypervigilance), hippocampus (memory glitches), hypothalamus (stress gone haywire), and frontal lobe (decision-making on the fritz). Enter the "amygdala hijack"—when fear short-circuits rational thought. Bottom line? Kids in fight-or-flight aren't in a teachable moment. Safety and calm have to come first. We close the show with actionable takeaways: risk-benefit analyses for every intervention (especially with histories of food neglect), "kind extinction" (empathy + withholding reinforcers), and the six pillars of trauma-informed care (safety, trustworthiness, peer support, collaboration, empowerment, cultural competence). TIC isn't a "hyphenated" ABA—it's the whole framework. Advice for new BCBAs? Seek trauma training, question "business as usual," and be the stable adult in a kid's chaotic world. Empathy, creativity, and reducing fear are your superpowers. Additional Resources Toward Trauma-Informed Applications of Behavior Analysis (Rajaraman, et al., 2021) Inside JABA 10 with Drs. Jenn Austin and Adithyan Rajaraman Dr. Camille Kolu's BOP episode on Buffers (a must listen!) 4th Annual Bay Path University Trauma-Informed Practice and ABA Conference David's book: Trauma-Informed Foster and Adoptive Parenting SAFE-T Assessment Training from Cusp Emergence University Sponsor Shoutouts! Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. The inaugural ABA CON CEU cruise, which launches on Royal Caribbean's Wonder of the Seas from February 16–20, 2026. Learn more about this cruise here. The 2026 Stone Soup Conference! This is one of the best values in the online conference space. I'm actually going to be one of the speakers at this year's event, along with a great cast of other characters you're probably familiar with. Save on your registration by using promo code PODCAST26! MindBodyBehavior's Certified Health Coach Program. If you're a BCBA looking to use your ABA skills to help people live healthier lifestyles, learn how to do it the right way, with expert instruction, mentoring, and guidance from Sarah Burby. Better still, podcast listeners can save $$$ by using the code BOP10 at check out. Click here to learn more! The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25. The discounted early-bird registration price is only available for a limited time, so get your ticket right away!

In Session 313, Dr. Cody Morris from Salve Regina University, and the newly re-launched All Things Behavior podcast (please also see The BAPcast Podcast), joins me to dive into a topic that has merited quite a bit of discussion in Applied Behavior Analysis. These days, you pretty much have to be living under a rock in ABA circles to not have noticed the increased focus on assent practices in treatment programming. Cody is one of the preeminent authorities on this topic, and in this episode, we talk about the definitions of assent, how assent has been conceptualized in other fields, and how it applies to the work we do as Behavior Analysts. In doing so, we review Cody's article, Toward a Further Understanding of Assent, which was published in the winter 2024 issue. Long story short, if you're looking for a nuanced discussion on this topic that avoids binary, black and white conceptualizations, you've come to the right place. Here's a deeper dive into what we discussed: Assent in Behavior Analysis: Cody's research on assent—a concept similar to consent but applicable to individuals without legal authorization to consent for themselves. Assent involves four critical features: legal status, giving permission, adequate information, and the ability to withdraw permission. This concept is essential for involving clients in therapeutic decisions, particularly those with communication differences or developmental disabilities. Client Assent in Therapeutic Settings: The discussion covers the historical roots and practical applications of assent in behavior analysis. Cody clarifies that assent is a specific strategy for involving clients in treatment decisions, not an all-or-nothing requirement. He addresses the challenges of obtaining accurate verbal assent from clients with complex communication needs and recommends using multiple sources of information when assessing client preferences. Assent Procedures in Research: An examination of assent procedures in behavior analytic research, including the distinction between free choice and fair choice. The episode explores how researchers and clinicians can minimize undue influence and coercive contingencies while arranging fair choices and creating socially acceptable outcomes. Balancing Clinical Progress and Client Autonomy: Cody discusses the critical balance between making clinical progress and giving clients independence and autonomy. He explains that while some procedures are necessary and non-negotiable, there are often opportunities to involve clients in decisions about their treatment, such as choosing the time of day or setting for therapeutic activities or medication management. Implementing Assent in Practice: The episode addresses nuances and limitations of implementing client assent in behavioral therapy, emphasizing that assent should be balanced with clinical progress. Cody highlights the dangers of overgeneralizing procedures without individualizing treatment and encourages a broader approach to maximizing client involvement in therapeutic decisions. Challenges in Assent Assessment: A discussion on the challenges and limitations of developing simplified decision-making tools (like checklists) for assessing client assent. Cody emphasizes the need for nuanced clinical judgment due to insufficient research and recommends that researchers take small, focused steps in studying specific aspects of assent. Resources & References Morris, Dietrich, and Peterson. (2021). Participant assent in behavior analytic research: Considerations for participants with autism and developmental disabilities. Bannerman, et al., (1990). Balancing the right to habilitation with the right to personal liberties: The rights of people with developmental disabilities to eat too many doughnuts and take a nap. Inside JABA 24: Improving Health Routines for Adults with Disabilities Using Synchronous Reinforcement Strategies (CEU available!). Inside JABA 23: ABA Strategies for Safer Playground Behavior (CEU available!). Inside JABA 22: Response to Name Interventions for Staff and Caregivers (CEU available!). Skinner (1999). Cumulative Record. Northup (2000). Further evaluation of the accuracy of reinforcer surveys: A systematic replication. Good Will Hunting. Takeaways for Practitioners Assent is one tool within a larger framework of client-centered services, not the sole focus of treatment Incorporate clients in as many meaningful decisions as possible throughout treatment, distinguishing between necessary procedures and flexible choices Use multiple sources of information when assessing client preferences, especially for individuals with complex communication needs Balance clinical progress with client autonomy and independence Avoid overgeneralizing or rigidly following assent procedures without individualizing treatment Take a nuanced, clinically-informed approach to client involvement in therapeutic decisions This episode is brought to you by the following sponsors: • Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! • MindBodyBehavior's Certified Health Coach Program. If you're a BCBA looking to use your ABA skills to help people live healthier lifestyles, learn how to do it the right way, with expert instruction, mentoring, and guidance from Sarah Burby. Better still, podcast listeners can save $$$ by using the code BOP10 at check out. Click here to learn more! • HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. • Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! • The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25, led by Dr. Emily Kerwin and Gina Zecchin-Tirri from All Points Behavior (formerly The Carbone Clinic). The discounted early-bird registration price is only available for a limited time, so get your ticket right away!

In Session 311, I sit down with Christina Nylander and Leah Hussain from Apollo Behavior to talk about culturally sensitive approaches to Autism intervention. We dive into three case studies that show how flexible, individualized care can make a huge difference in building the rapport that's so important in our clinical work. Along the way, we share strategies for gaining parent buy-in, supporting bilingual language development, and using AAC devices to help children communicate more effectively with their families. Here's what we cover: The parent training shift when cultural sensitivity and rapport-building are prioritized. Christina and Leah's bilingual language development success stories, including Spanish- and Russian-speaking families. The role of AAC devices in improving communication, and one of these case studies progressed to no longer needing this technology. My random thoughts on video documentation and other creative methods to communicate client progress to stakeholders. Throughout the discussion, we reflect on the importance of balancing clinical recommendations with cultural and educational values. It's not just about treatment plans—it's about building trust, respecting families' perspectives, and helping kids thrive in ways that feel authentic to them. Sidenote: If you want to learn about what it's like to work at Apollo, or check out their open positions, click here. Key Takeaways Cultural sensitivity builds stronger collaboration with families. Bilingual and AAC strategies can unlock communication progress. Showing progress through videos and creative methods strengthens parent engagement. Individualized parent training, including in multiple languages, increases accessibility. If you're a BCBA, ABA therapist, or behavioral health professional, I think you'll find this conversation full of practical ideas for making your work more effective—and more meaningful. Bilingual & Dual‑Language Interventions Neely et al. (2020) – Impact of language on behavior treatment outcomes. Banerjee et al. (2021) – Extending Functional Communication Training to Multiple Language Contexts in Bilingual Learners with Challenging Behavior. Cengher (2024). On Bilingualism: Why and How to Teach Two Languages to Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Cultural Responsiveness, Humility & Systemic Equity in ABA Deochand, Neil & Costello, Mack S. (2022). Building a Social Justice Framework for Cultural and Linguistic Diversity in ABA. Jimenez-Gomez, Corina & Beaulieu, L. (2022). Cultural responsiveness in applied behavior analysis: Research and practice. ABA Effectiveness & Need for Cultural Inclusion Yu, Qian; Li, Enyao; Li, Liguo; Liang, Weiyi (2020). Efficacy of Interventions Based on Applied Behavior Analysis for Autism Spectrum Disorder: A Meta‑Analysis. Spreckley, Michele & Boyd, Roslyn (2009). Efficacy of Applied Behavioural Intervention in Preschool Children with Autism for Improving Cognitive, Language, and Adaptive Behavior: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis. Bonus resources Clinical Interviewing, by Sommers-Flanagan and Sommers-Flanagan (note 1: I know it's expensive, but older versions may be cheaper; note 2: this is an Amazon Associates link). Tobii Dynavox (the AAC tech that was discussed in the show). Looking for a pod-based CEU on this topic? Check out: Session 194, Inside JABA 12: Cultural Responsiveness in Applied Behavior Analysis. Sponsor Shoutouts! Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! Our newest sponsor: MindBodyBehavior's Certified Health Coach Program. If you're a BCBA looking to use your ABA skills to help people live healthier lifestyles, learn how to do it the right way, with expert instruction, mentoring, and guidance from Sarah Burby. Click here to learn more! HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!

In Session 309, I welcome Dr. Lyndsy Coffield, Director of Client Success at Apollo Behavior, to share her unique journey in the field of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) and her groundbreaking work training law enforcement officers on autism awareness. Dr. Coffield's path into ABA began with an undergraduate degree in speech pathology, later becoming an RBT and eventually a BCBA. Today, she oversees intake and marketing at a growing clinic network in Georgia while also dedicating her research to improving police interactions with individuals on the autism spectrum. This episode explores the intersection of ABA careers, autism, and law enforcement training, highlighting the challenges and opportunities that come with bridging these worlds. What You'll Learn in This Episode Entering the ABA Field Dr. Coffield's journey from speech pathology to becoming a BCBA. Her leadership role at Apollo and overseeing client success in a multi-clinic system. Understanding Law Enforcement Culture Why credibility matters when teaching law enforcement officers about autism. Parallels between gaining parents' trust in ABA and gaining officers' trust in training. Police Academy Experiences Dr. Coffield's firsthand experiences at a Citizens Police Academy: ride-alongs, call centers, and unit training. Surprising insights into the hidden volume of crime and emergencies in her community. Autism and Law Enforcement Training Common challenges officers face when interacting with individuals on the spectrum. Misinterpretations—such as stimming being mistaken for drug use—and how they can escalate situations. Practical strategies: slowing down, assessing intent, and waiting for backup when needed. Applying Behavior Analysis to Autism Training How ABA principles help officers understand and support autistic individuals. Tips for officers: allowing response time, keeping safe distances, and recognizing autism traits. The Blue Envelope Project and other community initiatives improving interactions. De-Escalation Training in Action A success story from Salem, NH, where effective autism training helped officers de-escalate high-risk encounters. Why calm, compassionate approaches make a lasting impact in policing. Body Camera Footage as a Training Tool Dr. Coffield's dissertation analysis of 10 body cam videos involving autistic individuals. Key officer behaviors that worked: patience, spacing, and communication. Why both lecture-based training and Behavioral Skills Training (BST) are equally effective. Ongoing Autism and Law Enforcement Research Insights from Dr. Cofield's dissertation (available on PubQuest). The need for additional studies and real-world ride-along experiences. Encouragement for ABA professionals to get involved in police training efforts. Why This Conversation Matters The intersection of autism, ABA, and law enforcement is a critical area where misunderstandings can have serious consequences. Dr. Cofield's research and practical training insights provide a roadmap for safer, more empathetic, and more effective police interactions with autistic individuals. Whether you're an ABA professional, law enforcement officer, or advocate for the autism community, this episode offers practical takeaways and inspiration to make a difference. Resources & Links Mentioned Lyndsy's Dissertation The Blue Envelope Project Careers at Apollo Behavior Lyndsy's appearance on The Beyond the Science Podcast This episode is brought to you by the following sponsors: Frontera. Consider taking a demo of Frontera's Assessment Builder and see how the ethical application of AI technologies can help you serve clients and save you time! Your first assessment report is free. And if you use code BOP25 you'll get an additional five assessments for just $100. So head to fronterahealth.com to check it out! HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. The Behavioral Toolbox. Check out our courses for school-based and other behavioral professionals, including our newest one, Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In. The inaugural ABA CON CEU cruise, which launches on Royal Caribbean's Wonder of the Seas from February 16–20, 2026. Learn more about this cruise here