The Intuitive Customer - Helping You Improve Your Customer Experience To Gain Growth

Customer Experience isn't short of activity—it's short of new ideas that actually land. In this episode, Colin and Ryan dig into why genuinely fresh thinking in CX struggles to break through, how industries get stuck in "normal science," and why it feels like we're doing more measurement… without more progress. They explore what a real disruption looks like, the warning signs that a paradigm is reaching diminishing returns, and how leaders can break out of the loop. Best Quote "When a paradigm hits its limits, the next move isn't 'do more.' It's think differently—and be willing to ruffle a few feathers." Colin Shaw: Key Takeaways Are we measuring more because we're improving—or because we don't know what else to do? If satisfaction is stagnating, what "accepted" CX beliefs might be holding us back? What would a real CX disruption look like—and are we brave enough to recognize it when it shows up? Why You Should Listen If you've felt like CX is turning into an echo chamber—same language, same frameworks, same playbook—this episode gives you a sharper lens on why that happens and what to do next. You'll hear how paradigm shifts actually work, the signals that the current model is running out of runway, and practical ways to find (and foster) ideas that can genuinely move the industry forward. Resources Mentioned Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 ACSI National Customer Satisfaction (Q3 2025 press release): https://theacsi.org/news-and-resources/press-releases/2025/11/13/press-release-national-acsi-q3-2025/ PwC Global Workforce Hopes and Fears (psychological safety): https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/issues/workforce/hopes-and-fears.html About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

Why do we actively seek out content that makes us angry? In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton explore the idea of consuming anger as an emotional experience. From doomscrolling and rage-bait headlines to viral customer complaints and outrage-driven media, they unpack why anger is such a powerful, bonding, and profitable emotion — and what this means for Customer Experience. Best Quote from the Episode "Sometimes people don't just experience anger — they actively consume it, because it makes them feel alive." Professor Ryan Hamilton Key Takeaways Anger is not just a reaction — it's often a deliberate emotional choice People consume negative emotions (anger, fear, disgust, sadness) because emotion beats boredom Rage-bait content works because it delivers safe emotional arousal with no personal risk Brands can unintentionally create rage bait, losing control of the narrative There may be no emotion that can't be monetized — but that raises ethical questions Resources Mentioned Overton's window - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMU0w4MP8Dc&t=5s Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

How will customers decide which decisions to hand over to AI? As AI agents move to the front of the customer journey, brands are no longer competing for attention. They're competing for selection. And in many cases, they don't even realize they're being bypassed. This conversation goes beyond tools and technology to examine the psychology of decision-making, trust, empathy, and what happens when AI becomes the primary decision-maker on behalf of customers. 🔑 What We Explore in This Episode Why AI isn't replacing people—it's replacing decision effort How customers decide which decisions they're willing to give up The difference between commodity, complex, and high-risk decisions Why behavioral segmentation matters more than demographics How AI can demonstrate empathy—and why that challenges long-held CX beliefs What it means for organizations when AI mediates the experience instead of them 💬 Best Quote from the Episode "Once AI becomes the primary interface, organizations stop competing for attention and start competing for selection." — Colin Shaw Key Questions Discussed Which customer decisions in your business are already being outsourced to AI—whether you like it or not? As customers trust AI with simple decisions, how far up the decision ladder will that trust extend? If AI becomes the most trusted voice in the journey, what role does your brand actually play? Why You Should Listen If you're still thinking about AI as a tool your organization uses—rather than a force your customers are using—you're already behind. This episode will help you rethink: Where AI fits in the customer decision process Why "human touch" alone is no longer a defensible strategy What leaders must do now to avoid being sleepwalked into commoditization Resources Mentioned Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 286,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

How are you really using AI — and how does that compare to others? In this episode, Colin Shaw introduces a simple behavioural framework for understanding how people are actually using AI today — not in theory, but in practice — and why this matters enormously for the future of Customer Experience. Rather than treating AI as a technology maturity model, Colin reframes it as a behavioural curve, shaped by confidence, trust, intent, and the consequences of being wrong. Drawing on real usage examples, ChatGPT analytics, and current research, Colin outlines four AI usage patterns that people tend to move through over time. Most people touch more than one. Very few stay in just one forever. The episode challenges listeners to ask: Where am I on this curve? Where are my customers today? And where will they be in 3–5 years? This is Part One of a new AI series exploring the implications of changing customer behaviour — and what organisations should be doing now to prepare. Best Quote from the Episode "This isn't a technology maturity model. It's a behavioural one. People don't adopt AI in a single way — they move through patterns depending on trust, confidence, and what's at stake." Colin Shaw, Founder & CEO, Beyond Philosophy Why You Should Listen If you're: wondering how AI will really change Customer Experience unsure whether your organisation is preparing for the right future or trying to understand how customer decision-making is evolving …this episode gives you a clear, practical way to think about AI adoption — grounded in behaviour, not hype. Resources Mentioned Colin Shaw - https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinrjshaw/ Professor Ryan Hamilton - http://linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321 About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 2% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Professor Ryan Hamilton is joined by Ben Shaw, seasoned brand strategist, to unpack the promises and pitfalls of synthetic audiences - AI-driven research used for faster, cheaper market research. Synthetic audiences, powered by large language models (LLMs), can replicate customer segments and respond to creative concepts or product questions at scale cutting the time and cost of traditional surveys. But does it come with trade-offs? Expect lively debate on the AI vs. LLM naming debate, the enduring value of ethnography and nuance, and practical tips for blending synthetic and traditional research to make smarter, more human-centred decisions. From democratising access to consumer insight to questioning the believability of robot-approved ad copy, this candid discussion highlights how to use these tools wisely. 🔑 Key Takeaways Synthetic ≠ Real: Synthetic audiences use LLMs to predict human responses—they're powerful, but they're still not replacements for real people. Direction not Proof: Treat synthetic audiences as a first-cut hypothesis tool i.e.great for inspiration, not yet reliable as stand-alone evidence. Nuance & Minority Voices Matter: AI often defaults to the average response, risking loss of critical insights from edge cases or minority behaviours. Democratisation of Insight: With the right data, teams from product to shop-floor staff can ask customer-centred questions directly. Best Practice: Use synthetic audiences for speed and hypothesis testing, then validate with real humans—especially for high-stakes decisions. 📚 Resources & Mentions HubSpot CMO Kipp Bodnar "Better, faster, AND cheaper isn't a trade-off anymore" Harvard Business School study 'Using LLMs for Market Research'

Trust in traditional institutions is eroding. As customers lose faith in advertising, government and even online reviews, they're turning to voices that feel most relatable: peers and communities. Edelman's latest Trust Barometer shows the most credible spokesperson for a company is now "people like me." Ben Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton explore the decline of influencer credibility, the rise of community-driven word-of-mouth, the tension between authenticity and control, and why attention + trust will be the "coins of the realm" for brands in the decade ahead. 🔑 Key Takeaways Trust > control – brands that over-engineer influencer content or product placement erode the very authenticity that made those channels effective. Attention + trust are today's scarce currencies – in an AI-shaped customer journey where deep-fakes, fake reviews and scam sites abound, both are harder to win. Community is the new battleground – brands should put the "social" back into social media: support micro-communities, forums and peer-to-peer validation rather than chase mass reach alone. Influencers ≠ "people like me" anymore – audiences are starting to view most creators as a separate, commercial class. Virtual influencers may be a short-lived novelty – unless treated as fictional characters with entertainment value and transparent intent. 📚 Resources Mentioned / Referenced Edelman Trust Barometer G2 crowd / peer-review sites – cited B2B tactic to harness "people like me." Case notes: Super Bowl celebrity ads vs brand recall, Vodafone Germany's virtual influencer, Colonel Sanders' virtual persona.

In this episode, Colin Shaw shares a recent personal experience with a major brand that imposed a 'gag order' (NDA) after a poor service experience — and how this reflects a deeper organizational issue: silos. Together with Professor Ryan Hamilton, Colin explores why siloed thinking leads to incoherent customer experiences, how internal motivations can conflict with CX goals, and what leaders must do to ensure learning, trust, and advocacy remain priorities. A must-listen for CX professionals and senior leaders alike. Best Quote: "Who decides? That is the question every leadership team should ask — and answer wisely." Key Takeaways: Organizational silos often lead to decisions that prioritise risk management over customer experience. Legal and PR functions may act rationally within their remit, but this can result in poor CX outcomes without CX leadership involvement. Service recovery is a powerful opportunity to build trust and advocacy — if handled thoughtfully. The presence of gag orders may indicate systemic issues that need urgent attention. CX leaders must break silos, promote organisational learning, and ensure customer trust is considered in every critical decision. Register for the 'Unleash AI. Reimagine CX launch event' by NiCE Cognigy https://www.nice.com/lps/nice-cognigy-launch-event?utm_source=influencers&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NL_Q425_EN_PLT_GLOB_252346_WBN_NiCE-Cognigy-Virtual-Launch-Event&utm_content=0522834&utm_detail=dentsu-influencers-nicecog-glob-colin About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press 2025 Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Professor Ryan Hamilton is joined by guest host Ben Shaw to explore the high-stakes world of rebranding. From Cracker Barrel's logo backlash to Jaguar's radical design overhaul, they unpack what happens when brands chase new audiences at the expense of their loyal customers. The conversation dives into the tension between rebranding vs. repositioning, why heritage brands face special challenges, how politics and culture can hijack brand decisions, and practical lessons for leaders trying to grow without alienating their core base. Key Takeaways Rebrand ≠ Reposition: A visual refresh is not the same as shifting your audience or your value proposition, conflate the two at their peril. Respect the Core Customer: Growth shouldn't mean neglecting the customers who got you here; woo them as deliberately as you pursue new ones. Brand Stretch Matters: Broad idea-driven brands (e.g., Virgin, Crocs) can pivot more easily than heritage or status-driven brands (e.g., Jaguar, Burberry). Change Carries Political Luggage: In today's climate, even aesthetic changes can be interpreted as taking sides so plan for backlash and communication. Experience vs. Marketing: Quietly improving the customer experience often triggers less resistance than highly visible logo or messaging changes. Segment Conflicts Are Real: Pursuing one segment often pushes you away from another. Sub-brands Can Create Safe Space: When segments clash, consider sub-brands or status tiers to reduce friction (e.g., Nike's sport verticals, Burberry's London/Brit/Brit Prorsum). Heritage is an Asset and a Trap: Brands built on nostalgia or legacy often risk losing their most valuable equity if they modernise too aggressively. Resources & Brands Mentioned Ryan Hamilton & Annie's book: The Growth Dilemma – on managing relationships between customer segments. Brand case studies: Cracker Barrel, Jaguar, Burberry, Kohl's, Nike, Crocs, Virgin, Michael Kors.

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Professor Ryan Hamilton is joined by guest co-host Ben Shaw, Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe, to explore the enduring role of brand archetypes in marketing and customer experience. They revisit the origins of archetypes in Jungian psychology and the influential book The Hero and the Outlaw (Pearson & Mark), before debating how useful the framework remains today. Together, they discuss the power of archetypes to create consistency, unlock creativity, and guide internal decision-making while also recognizing their limitations, risks of rigidity, and occasional resemblance to horoscopes. The conversation ranges from brand strategy in B2B to the impact of AI agents on future purchasing, highlighting how archetypes can still be adapted, evolved, and made practical for modern brand building. 🔑 Key Takeaways Archetypes as tools, not rules: Archetypes provide a shared language for teams and a lens for decision-making, but they shouldn't become a straightjacket. Sub-archetypes unlock creativity: Going beyond the 12 canonical archetypes helps brands avoid sameness and find distinctiveness in crowded categories. Accessibility matters: Archetypes are most effective when they make complex strategy simple and relatable—otherwise they risk losing non-marketing stakeholders. Playing against type: Some of the most disruptive brands (e.g., Liquid Death) succeed precisely by defying category-expected archetypes. Archetypes in B2B: While not always necessary, they can still be useful to express human needs like trust, security, or freedom, even in highly functional categories. AI and archetypes: The rise of AI agents in commerce could challenge the role of storytelling in decision-making, but also presents opportunities for brands to encode their archetypes into machine-readable signals. Healthy ambiguity: Like many frameworks, archetypes work best when used as a catalyst for debate, inspiration, and consistency but not as a rigid formula. 📚 Resources Mentioned The Hero and the Outlaw: Building Extraordinary Brands Through the Power of Archetypes — Carol Pearson & Margaret Mark Carl Jung's theories of archetypes and collective unconscious Example brands: Liquid Death, Old Spice, Superman, The Beatles Applications of AI & Large Language Models in creative brand strategy

In this milestone episode, The Intuitive Customer undergoes a transformation. Colin Shaw announces a step back from the regular hosting role, prompting a fresh chapter in the podcast's evolution. Hosts Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton introduce two new expert contributors — Dr. Morgan Ward, a consumer psychologist, and Ben Shaw, a brand strategist — to bring fresh perspectives on customer behavior, brand experience, and the future of CX. Together, the four hosts discuss the state of customer experience today, particularly in light of the stagnant growth in the American Customer Satisfaction Index over the past three decades. They debate metrics versus meaning, the enduring value of physical retail, and the coming wave of non-visual AI-driven brand interactions. The episode sets the stage for a broader, more dynamic take on what it means to truly understand and serve customers in the modern age. Quote of the Episode "We're using metrics that are more relevant to the business than to the person actually experiencing the brand." — Dr. Morgan Ward Key Takeaways Customer satisfaction has plateaued: The American Customer Satisfaction Index has barely moved in 30 years, despite huge investments in CX. This calls into question the effectiveness of current CX strategies. ROI needs to be central: CX professionals must link experience improvements directly to financial returns if they want continued investment. Metrics can be misleading: Overly relying on simplified metrics like NPS can lead organizations astray, especially when they're gamed or don't reflect real consumer emotions. Retail is making a comeback: Resurgence in physical retail's emotional power especially among younger consumers who crave tactile experiences. The future is voice-first: How AI-driven, non-visual brand experiences will redefine customer interaction demanding new forms of design thinking. Dual focus is key: Brands must balance operational improvements today with strategic planning for a fast-approaching future filled with disruptive technologies. Resources Mentioned American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI): www.acsi.org — Independent benchmark of customer satisfaction in the U.S. since 1994. About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press 2025 Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Ben Shaw Ben Shaw is Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe UK, having also led strategy at BBH and worked client-side with fast-growth start-ups Wheely and Unmind. He's passionate about how brands can challenge culture convention and create ideas people want to spend time with, working on brands like Audi, Google and Burger King. Beyond advertising, Ben champions mental health awareness and rare disease research, drawing on both personal experience and professional curiosity. Follow Ben Shaw Morgan Ward Morgan Ward, Ph.D. is a marketing scholar and former professor at Emory University and Southern Methodist University, with over two decades of expertise in consumer behavior and branding. She's worked with clients ranging from start-ups to global brands, helping them translate behavioral science into strategies that resonate in culture and drive growth. Her academic research explores status, symbolism, and the psychology of consumption, and she has served as an expert witness in federal trademark and trade dress cases. Beyond her academic and consulting work, Morgan is fascinated by how cultural shifts shape what people desire, and how brands can both reflect and influence those desires. Follow Morgan on LinkedIn Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

In this episode of The Intuitive Customer, Colin Shaw speaks with Andy Traba, VP of Product Marketing at NICE, about the company's new mission: Creating a NiCE World. This isn't just a rebranding message — it's a strategic shift toward unified, proactive, and AI-enabled customer experiences. Andy and Colin explore why AI alone isn't enough, the dangers of siloed implementations, and why leading organizations are turning to platforms — not point solutions — to orchestrate connected, emotionally resonant journeys. If your organization is serious about CX transformation, this conversation provides clear guidance on where to start, what to avoid, and how to align internal functions toward a shared customer strategy. Quote of the Episode "The moment you find success with AI, you'll want more. That's why you have to start with a platform — not a point solution — so your entire organization can scale, align, and deliver a truly connected experience." — Andy Traba, VP of Product Marketing, NiCE 🔑 Key Topics Covered: NICE's Global Happiness Index and the emotional impact of service Why 37% of customers still get stuck in repeat interactions The risk of siloed AI and "Frankenstack" technology stacks Platform strategies for AI orchestration and enterprise-wide memory Proactive service as the new CX battleground Segment of one personalization and behavioral science applications Practical starting points for CX leaders in 2025 📎 Resources Mentioned NiCE - https://www.nice.com/ NiCE Global Happiness Index Report - https://get.nice.com/2024-intl-happiness-index-report.html Connect with Andy Traba on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-traba-a75a1b3/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 87,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press 2025 Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify This podcast was undertaken in partnership with NiCE

How do you grow your revenues without upsetting your existing customers? In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton dive into the new book he has written with Anne Wilson, Senior Lecturer at Wharton. Published by Harvard Business Review Press, the book is called: The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things Available here: https://bit.ly/3ZCN2wD Professor Ryan Hamilton reveal how brand growth often gets derailed not by bad strategy, but by insufficient attention to how your customer segments relate to each other. You may think your audiences are living on separate islands, but spoiler alert: they're not. They're watching each other, seeing what the other does, and sometimes they don't like it and will move elsewhere. From Crocs to Prius to the Bud Light fiasco (and yes, even neo-Nazis in New Balance sneakers), this episode pulls no punches. It's a fast-paced, funny, and brutally honest look at why many brands fail to grow—and how you can avoid becoming the following cautionary tale. 💥 Best Quote from the Episode: "If your growth strategy relies on one customer segment not hearing what you're saying to another, it's already a bad strategy." — Prof. Ryan Hamilton 🧠 What You'll Learn: Why growth isn't just about what you offer—it's about who sees you offering it The hidden relationships between customer segments and how they impact brand value Why Bud Light's attempt to broaden its appeal led to a marketing meltdown How Crocs turned from a fashion joke to a fashion statement What to do when the wrong customer segments start adopting your brand How to spot leader–follower segment dynamics and use them to scale Practical questions to ask before you launch a growth strategy 📘 About the Book: The Growth Dilemma Ryan's new book with Annie Wilson is out now! Published by Harvard Business Review Press, The Growth Dilemma explores how inter-segment conflict affects brand growth and what to do about it. It's innovative, practical, and unlike anything else out there. Buy it now: https://bit.ly/3ZCN2wD 📣 Get Involved If you're leading a brand, managing customer segments, or thinking about how to grow, this episode is for you. Reach out to Ryan on LinkedIn if you're interested in: Workshops Keynotes Or just picking his brain over a coffee (virtual or otherwise) 📨 Connect with Ryan: https://bit.ly/3SvsqTh About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 86,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience. Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of the book 'The Intuitive Customer'. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and featured in major media outlets, including The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things." Harvard Business Press 2025. Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify

How happy are you when you buy auto insurance? If your answer is anything other than thrilled, you're not alone. In fact, years ago, a UK insurance company tried to convince us otherwise with their tagline "Quote Me Happy." Spoiler alert: Nobody was happy. This raises a fascinating question: What role does advertising play in the customer experience, and why is there such a massive disconnect between the ads we see and what we actually get? In this episode, Colin Shaw and Professor Ryan Hamilton dive deep into the Great Expectation Gap—and they've brought in a special guest: Ben Shaw, Chief Strategy Officer at MullenLowe (and, fun fact, Colin's son). It turns out that years of heated Sunday lunch debates on advertising vs. CX have led to this moment! 🍽️ Together, they explore why marketing often sets unrealistic expectations, how brands can align advertising with reality, and why great advertising can only work if the customer experience delivers on the promise. 💡 Tune in to discover: ✅ Why customers feel frustrated when reality doesn't match advertising promises ✅ The power of the word "BUT" in advertising and how it reveals hidden customer tensions ✅ The real reason marketing and CX teams aren't on the same page—and how to fix it ✅ How Apple mastered the art of aligning advertising and customer experience ✅ Why spending more on advertising won't solve a broken CX (no matter how creative the campaign is) Best Quote from the Episode: The Brand makes the promise in the Market, the Customer Experience should deliver against that promise. — Colin Shaw Resources Mentioned Ben Shaw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benshawuk/ 'Brand Ben' on Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@benshaw37?_t=ZN-8ujJORxL3SQ&_r=1 Mullen Lowe: https://www.mullenlowe.co.uk/ About the Hosts: Colin Shaw is a LinkedIn 'Top Voice' with a massive 284,000 followers and 86,000 subscribers to his 'Why Customers Buy' newsletter. Shaw is named one of the world's 'Top 150 Business Influencers' by LinkedIn. His company, Beyond Philosophy LLC, has been selected four times by the Financial Times as a top management consultancy. Shaw is co-host of the top 1.5% podcast 'The Intuitive Customer'—with over 600,000 downloads—and author of eight best-sellers on customer experience, Shaw is a sought-after keynote speaker. Follow Colin on LinkedIn. Ryan Hamilton is a Professor of Marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of 'The Intuitive Customer' book. An award-winning teacher and researcher in consumer psychology, he has been named one of Poets & Quants' "World's Best 40 B-School Profs Under 40." His research focuses on how brands, prices, and choice architecture influence shopper decision-making, and his findings have been published in top academic journals and covered by major media outlets like The New York Times and CNN. His work highlights how psychology can help firms better understand and serve their customers. Ryan has a new book launch in June 2025 called "The Growth Dilemma: Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things" Harvard Business Press Follow Ryan on LinkedIn. Subscribe & Follow Apple Podcasts Spotify #CustomerExperience #Marketing #Advertising #Branding #CX