The Knowledge Project

We all know the Steve Jobs who came back in the late 1990s and saved Apple from becoming a footnote. And we've all heard the story of how, in 1985, he was pushed out of the company he'd created. What we don't know is what happened in between. Geoffrey Cain spent years reconstructing the decade Jobs spent outside Apple. NeXT spent years losing money. His co-founders left. His investors lost faith. His fortune nearly disappeared. At one point, he was a weekend away from shutting the company down. Somewhere in those failures, Jobs learned how to become the leader Apple would eventually need. This is Steve Jobs before he became Steve Jobs. ------ Chapters: (0:51) Why Steve Jobs Was Pushed Out of Apple (3:04) Steve Jobs' Failed Coup Attempt to Oust CEO (4:33) The Failure of Macintosh II (8:27) Starting NeXT Computers (9:34) The Story Behind NeXT's Iconic Logo (11:38) A Perfect Cube: The Impossible Design of NeXTcube (13:50) What Movies Get Wrong About Steve Jobs (14:02) The Ultimate Trait Steve Jobs Looked For in Hiring (14:59) Decision Making By Intellectual Combat (16:40) Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field (17:25) The Flaw that Almost Destroyed Steve Jobs (21:25) How NeXT Software Changed Computing Forever (24:44) Steve Jobs' Self-Sabotages at NeXT (25:02) Ross Perot and Steve Jobs (28:48) How Pixar Saved Steve Jobs from Bankruptcy (29:19) The Realization Steve Jobs Had at Rock Bottom (31:49) The Last Ditch Effort to Save NeXT Computers (38:55) Steve Jobs Gets His Revenge (43:09) Larry Ellison's Friendship with Steve Jobs (45:05) How Steve Jobs Brought Out the Best in His Employees (48:08) The Lessons Steve Jobs Learned From Failure (50:08) Bill Gates and Steve Jobs Rivalry (51:44) The Funniest Steve Jobs/Bill Gates Moment (53:43) Steve Jobs Takes Over As Apple CEO (57:08) How Meeting Laurene Changed Everything (59:01) Rapid Fire Questions (59:21) How Steve Jobs Inspired His Team (1:00:31) Steve Jobs Medical Treatment (1:01:42) What We Can Learn from Steve Jobs ------ Follow Geoffrey Cain: X: https://x.com/geoffrey_cain ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ ----- Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +Applovin: Launch your first AppLovin campaign and grow your business: https://applovin.com/shane +HeyGen is a message-first AI video platform that helps people and AI agents turn ideas into professional video in minutes. Try for free at https://www.heygen.com/tkp +Matic: the robot vacuum that does it all—grab yourself a year of free bags here. http://maticrobots.com/shaneparrish +LMNT: My go-to zero sugar electrolytes — get a free LMNT Sample Pack here: https://DrinkLMNT.com/TKP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This summer, I’m revisiting one of my favorite episodes. If you haven’t heard it, now is the time. If you have, it’s a classic and worth listening to again. Brad Jacobs has built eight billion-dollar companies, completed more than 500 acquisitions, and created extraordinary returns for shareholders over four decades. Few people understand how great businesses are built better than he does. This conversation is about the principles behind that success. Brad explains how he spots trends before they become obvious, why psychology matters as much as strategy, and how he thinks about acquisitions, hiring, capital allocation, decision-making, and building organizations that consistently outperform. He also shares lessons from therapy, meditation, and decades of leadership that changed how he manages people and makes decisions. ----- Chapters: 00:00 - Finding Every Opportunity to Make Money 02:03 - The Singularity & The Future of AI 04:14 - How to Think Rationally 05:40 - The Meta-Trend Driving the Future 07:50 - His Research Process 10:21 - How to Ask Better Questions 16:26 - Rearranging Your Brain for Success 20:55 - What Music & Math Teach Us About Business 30:59 - The Asymmetry of Leverage, Debt & Optionality 35:07 - The Psychology of Contrarian Bets 40:41 - Where True Confidence Comes From 50:19 - The Hidden Cost of Negative Feedback 56:12 - Core Lessons on Money & Wealth 58:11 - The M&A Playbook: How to Build an Empire 01:07:50 - The Exact Questions to Read Anyone Instantly 01:11:10 - The Reality of Board Meetings 01:16:55 - Frameworks for High-Stakes Decision-Making 01:23:35 - The Brutal Truth About Capital Markets 01:25:40 - Avoid Hiring This Type of Person 01:31:16 - Traits of the World’s Best Capital Allocators 01:33:53 - The Biggest Lesson of the Past Year 01:37:20 - Redefining Personal Success ----- *Note:* ‍Shane and guests may hold positions in assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing in this conversation should be considered investment advice, financial guidance, or a recommendation to buy or sell any security. Always do your own due diligence or consult with a qualified financial advisor before making investment decisions. ----- Follow Brad Jacobs: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradjacobsqxo/ QXO: https://www.qxo.com/ ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ ----- Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +Applovin: Launch your first AppLovin campaign and grow your business: https://applovin.com/shane +HeyGen is a message-first AI video platform that helps people and AI agents turn ideas into professional video in minutes. Try for free at https://www.heygen.com/tkp +Matic: the robot vacuum that does it all—grab yourself a year of free bags here. http://maticrobots.com/shaneparrish +LMNT: My go-to zero sugar electrolytes — get a free LMNT Sample Pack here: https://DrinkLMNT.com/TKP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2023, OpenAI’s board fired Sam Altman and told Greg Brockman he would remain at the company. He quit that day. In this conversation with Shane Parrish, OpenAI’s co-founder recounts the crisis: the board call, the plan to start another company, and the outpouring of employee support. He also reflects on his relationship with Ilya Sutskever and what the experience taught him about leadership, loyalty, and difficult decisions. Greg takes us back to OpenAI’s beginnings, including the Napa gathering that helped shape its technical direction. He explains why the pursuit of artificial general intelligence (AGI) demanded more computing power—and why he believed nonprofit fundraising alone couldn’t support that ambition. Looking ahead, we explore the global AI race, how AI is changing software development, and why access to computing power could shape who benefits. Greg shares his vision for AI agents, what they could mean for your job, and why he believes initiative, ideas, and the ability to direct AI will become increasingly valuable. ----- Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:00:49 Meeting Sam Altman and Starting OpenAI 00:02:40 Building the Founding Team 00:04:25 DeepMind's Lead Over OpenAI 00:04:54 The Change from a Pure Non-Profit 00:06:05 Breakthrough Moments at OpenAI 00:08:22 What Dota 2 Meant for OpenAI 00:10:04 Reasoning Versus Prediction 00:11:59 Tensions Grow at OpenAI 00:15:44 Sam Altman's Firing 00:17:49 Greg Quits OpenAI 00:19:56 Sam Explores Deal with Microsoft's Satya 00:20:28 OpenAI Employees Sign Petition for Altman's Return 00:23:43 Ilya Sutskever Leaves OpenAI 00:24:59 Lessons Learned in Leadership after Sam Ousting 00:28:22 The Thing Ilya Said that Greg Can't Forget 00:32:22 Is AI Going Parabolic? 00:33:24 How Much of OpenAI's Code is Written by AI? 00:36:21 Are AI Chatbots Just Telling Us What We Want to Hear? 00:38:06 The Global AI Race to Reach AGI 00:38:40 What Happens if US Doesn't Reach AGI First? 00:39:49 Are Competing Countries Stealing AI Advancements from U.S? 00:40:38 Why ChatGPT No Longer Shows Reasoning 00:41:47 The Finite Constraints of Compute 00:43:38 On Investing Early in Data Centers 00:46:31 The Future of Data Center Specialization 00:47:52 How OpenAI Will Decide Whose Queries to Serve 00:49:08 OpenAI on Consumer vs Enterprise Models 00:53:05 Data Centers in Space? 01:00:56 What Should AI Regulation Look Like? 01:04:33 The Future of AI-Powered Entrepreneurship 01:04:44 AI and Job Loss 01:07:15 The Skills Young People Should Invest In 01:11:30 What Does Success Look Like For You? ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Follow Greg Brockman: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thegdb/ Blog: https://blog.gregbrockman.com/ ------ Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +CoinShares: Delivering Reason to Digital Asset Investing. ⁠https://coinshares.com/⁠ +Granola AI, The AI notepad for people in back-to-back meetings: https://www.granola.ai/shane Check out the Granola Notes. +HeyGen is a message-first AI video platform that helps people and AI agents turn ideas into professional video in minutes. Try for free at https://www.heygen.com/tkp +LMNT: My go-to zero sugar electrolytes — get a free LMNT Sample Pack here: DrinkLMNT.com/TKP Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Harrison McCain learned salesmanship by talking his way into a pharmaceutical job at 22, then spent five formative years under K.C. Irving, absorbing lessons in vertical integration, relentless deal-capture, and "management by suggestion." He quit with no plan, two newborn kids, and no income. His brother Bob noticed that New Brunswick potato farmers were shipping raw potatoes to Maine for processing into frozen fries, then buying the finished product back. The McCains pooled $100,000 in family money, assembled capital from five different sources without giving up equity, and built a plant on a cow pasture in Florenceville. The company's core strategy was to avoid competition entirely: enter markets where frozen fries didn't exist, prove the market by exporting first, hire locals, and only build a factory after the numbers justified it. The U.S. was the one market that scared Harrison, and he patiently waited 16 years before a $500 million acquisition of Ore-Ida's foodservice division finally cracked it. Along the way, Harrison nearly destroyed his most important customer relationship with McDonald's by telling their buyer he didn't need to tour his plant, a mistake that took years to repair. By the time he died in 2004, McCain Foods operated 57 factories across six continents, sold in 160 countries, and processed a million pounds of potato products every hour. ----- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (01:03) The Offer (04:35) Learning From the Best (12:30) Time to Build (19:45) Going Global (27:57) The McDonald’s Mistake (31:17) The Operating Principles (33:24) Florenceville: I Like it Here (36:10) Characteristics of an Entrepreneur ----- Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Connor Teskey is the CEO of Brookfield Asset Management, one of the world’s largest investors, managing about a trillion dollars across infrastructure, power, real estate, private equity, and credit. In this exclusive interview, his first as CEO, we explore his approach to capital allocation, isolating variables, and building a business designed for long-term growth. Discover why effective investing begins with minimizing losses, how waiting for perfect information can result in missed opportunities, the strategies Brookfield uses to manage market risk while maintaining upside potential, and the key insights he gained working alongside Bruce Flatt. This discussion goes beyond investment strategies, offering a glimpse into Connor's perspective on decision-making in an uncertain environment, mentorship, culture, positioning, and talent. It's a rare inside look at the operations of one of the world's most tight-lipped firms. Enjoy! ----- Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (00:05) State of the Union for Brookfield (04:14) Nature of Investing (07:24) The Rise to Brookfield (12:06) Your Work Ethic is in Your Control (17:30) Ad Break (19:00) Data Center Deep Dive (22:22) How Does a Deal Come to Be? (29:34) Taking Bets Against Consensus (32:00) What Happens Post Business Acquisition? (40:44) Ad Break (41:55) Lived Experience Through Crashes (43:44) Where Does Talent Matter the Most at Brookfield? (47:10) Identifying Talent (58:18) Using AI to Increase Value Not Cut People (01:01:58) When Was Brookfield the Underdog? (01:03:38) Personal Ambition Over the Next 20 Years (01:10:34) Behind The Scenes of Oaktree (01:15:17) Work and Life Harmony (01:17:54) Time Allocation (01:19:58) The Most Fun Deal to Work On ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Follow Connor Teskey: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/connor-teskey-67931326b/?originalSubdomain=uk ------ Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +Granola AI, The AI notepad for people in back-to-back meetings: https://www.granola.ai/shane Check out the Granola Notes: https://notes.granola.ai/t/b0c2c94e-a330-4f0f-a62d-beb3c946a539-009c2hma +Download The League App today and find your perfect match! https://click.theleague.com/qmhm/0vdzsmj5 +Shopify: https://shopify.com/knowledgeproject ----- * Note: ‍Shane and guests may hold positions in assets discussed in this episode. This podcast is not investment advice, and is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing in this conversation should be considered investment advice, financial guidance, or a recommendation to buy or sell any security. Always do your own due diligence or consult with a qualified financial advisor before making investment decisions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The world's largest hotel company spent its first 30 years without a hotel. It started as a root beer stand in 1927. The first room didn't open until 1957. The man behind it was J. Willard Marriott. In this episode of Outliers, we explore how Marriott turned one root beer stand into a hotel empire, without a master plan. Oh, and along the way, he invented the airline catering business. This is the story of J.W. Marriott ----- Approximate Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (03:58) Ice Cold Root Beer (10:35) The Hot Shoppe Expansion (12:07) Building the Machine (20:07) The Airport Expansion (24:20) The Marriott Lessons (26:22) The Hotel Empire (30:53) Handing Over the Presidency (35:01) The End of an Era ----- Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In January 2021, Vlad Tenev made a decision that nearly destroyed Robinhood. Wall Street called it betrayal. Customers called it cowardice. He has never fully explained what happened — until now. Vlad Tenev built Robinhood into a financial titan, navigated the unprecedented GameStop crisis, and completely re-engineered the company to thrive after losing the vast majority of its market value. He breaks down the brutal transition from bloated hyper-growth to a lean machine, why a "juicy falsehood is more powerful than a boring truth", and the 3 distinct phases of AI integration separating the winners from the dead. Believe it or not, GameStop was not his hardest moment. ----- Approximate Timestamps: (00:00) The Unprecedented Crisis (00:33) The Truth About GameStop (09:30) Why False Narratives Win (10:39) Surviving an 80% Market Crash (16:02) Firing the Nice Founder & Going Founder Mode (24:25) Rules for High Performance (28:50) The Young Talent Advantage (35:13) First Principles Storytelling (39:07) 3 Phases of AI Integration (50:03) Building AI That Reasons (01:02:59) Fixing Private Market Access (01:20:04) Deciding What to Build Next (01:22:05) Surviving 1800% Inflation (01:31:22) How Robinhood Makes Money (01:39:51) Redesigning the Modern Bank (01:47:47) The Definition of Success ----- Check out Vlad: https://investors.robinhood.com/management/vlad-tenev https://www.linkedin.com/in/vlad-tenev-7037591b/ ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ ------ Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: +Granola AI, The AI notepad for people in back-to-back meetings: https://www.granola.ai/shane Check out the Granola Notes +Download The League App today and find your perfect match! https://click.theleague.com/qmhm/0vdzsmj5 +Shopify: https://shopify.com/knowledgeproject +.tech domains: Nothing says tech like being on .tech https://get.tech/ And a Big shout out to Wouter Teunissen who prepared a book on Robinhood that helped me prepare! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Phil Knight is the founder of Nike, the brand that reshaped sports and became one of the most powerful companies in the world. What would you do if your bank, your supplier, and your government all turned against you at the same time? Phil Knight didn’t have to imagine it. He lived on the edge of insolvency for nearly two decades. This Outliers episode explores belief, trust, fear, and the price of growth through the story of Nike’s founding. ----- Approximate Timestamps: (00:00) Introduction (02:07) Lessons From Phil Knight (11:25) How It All Began (15:56) The Waiting Game (22:26) The Darker Times (32:56) The End of the Customs War ----- Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership ------ Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------ Follow Shane Parrish: X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/shaneparrish⁠ Insta: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/shane-parrish-050a2183/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices