THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

Salt might be the most overhyped thing in your running bag. Alex Ostberg is back from Chicago, where Charles Hicks became the No. 3 American all time on a record-eligible course, for his monthly breakdown of the last four editions of The Rundown. He and Dominic start with electrolytes, a piece prompted by Riley Witt’s hot take. They cover why sweating actually raises blood sodium, the four dials that decide whether you need a sodium plan, and why slower marathoners face more hyponatremia risk than the elites. Next, they ask how much of your training actually serves your health. The biggest drop in all-cause mortality comes from the first few minutes of exercise, and Cleveland Clinic data shows that low fitness carries more risk than diabetes or high blood pressure. Then comes paranoia, starting with Seb Coe’s Christmas Day double and Steve Ovett’s legendary reply. From there they get into hubris, the undisciplined pursuit of more, and why winners should keep auditing for weaknesses. Finally, Alex reflects on coaching Klaudia Kazimierska to the top of the 1500m world and makes the case against detailed race plans. His advice is to kill the perfect-day fallacy, contain the damage when things go wrong, and run the race in front of you. Dominic closes with a curveball, asking for the worst pre-race advice a coach can give, and Alex’s answer is one every coach should hear. The Rundown just passed 5,000 subscribers, so come join the community, and thank you for spending part of your week with us. Tap into the Rundown Recap Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@Dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Natasza Dudek only wanted a PR. She got history instead. Now a junior at Ann Arbor Pioneer and the reigning Gatorade National Girls Cross Country Player of the Year, Natasza joins Dominic midway through her 2026 season to look back on the year her name went national. She remembers watching her oldest sister Zofia’s finishing kick win the 2019 Foot Locker title on a computer screen. She also explains what she learned as the youngest of three running sisters, and how weeks of workouts in the school hallways and a “feels like one degree” Brooks photo shoot tested her Michigan toughness.Her training is refreshingly simple. She does two workouts a week, one of them up whatever “Mount Everest” her coaches can find around Ann Arbor, and she guesses she peaks at 35 to 40 miles a week. She also goes back to the last downhill at Brooks, where Blair Bartlett caught her and she told herself to stop giving up and sprint. And she talks about racing this fall as the girl everyone is chasing.She wraps up with advice for kids hoping to make a national meet, her loaded Chipotle bowl, and the cabbage-wrapped Polish comfort dish she wishes more Americans knew. It’s a joy to spend time with a champion who still runs for her team, her sisters, and the fun of it. We can’t wait to cheer her on in San Diego this December.Tap into the Natasza Dudek Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Fleet Feet x Brooks XC ChampionshipsFleetFeet.com@tashi_avo2 on Instagram

After Josh Kerr's mile world record, Danny Mackey had 478 unread texts. He answered about 20 of them.The founding head coach of the Brooks Beasts Track Club joins Dominic at the end of the best season of his career. Josh Kerr broke the mile world record in London, about an hour after Brandon Miller won the 800m. Mackey still says he hasn't really reflected on any of it. He explains why: after 217 NCAA coaching rejections, he's still the guy who worries he could lose his job.Dominic opens with a challenge: pitch a top recruit without mentioning Josh Kerr. From there, Mackey traces the Kerr partnership from its start. He first spotted Kerr's long stride across a track in Albuquerque. Mackey also names the 2024 tempo run that first made him believe a world record was possible, and confirms the 1500m record is likely next.The conversation also gets into how Mackey coaches from inside the work rather than above it. He describes cold plunges at 6 a.m. alongside his athletes, and what Michael Jordan, Serena Williams and Rickson Gracie could teach a team.Dominic and Danny also cover what separates good athletes from great ones, why elite coaching talent is spread acrossevery level, Spencer Brown's influence on athlete media, and a three-year-old who wanted a popsicle in the middle of a world record night.Mackey closes with the lesson underneath all of it: nobody gets there alone. The company along the way is everything.Tap into the Danny Mackey Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @dannytmackey

Vinny Mauri got drug tested at a Planet Fitness.Five months after his 2:05:54 marathon at Glass City made him the fastest marathon debutant in American history, the self-coached Ohioan returned to the show just days before his second marathon in Chicago.Dominic starts hot. Vinny explains why he emailed USADA himself the day after Toledo, why he feels honored rather than offended by the doubters, and how his first official test finally happened at the treadmill he uses right in front of the lobby. Then the training gets absurd: a 4:11 net-uphill mile in the middle of a long run at Pittsburgh's North Park; Tuesdays that reach 45 miles; a 30-mile treadmill long run at just over five-minute pace;near 140 miles peak weeks . Vinny also explains why he chose ASICS, why he's still selling shoes at Second Sole, and why he won't put a number on Sunday. He calls Toledo his debut effort and Chicago his debut race, weighs Clayton Young's shot at the American record, and explains why two miles under nine minutes would make him back off. Mostly, he just wants to reach the start line smiling.He closes with advice for every runner still waiting on a breakthrough: sometimes you take a step back, and sometimes that step sets up a leap. Then Dominic extracts a promise involving the Ohio state cross country meet.Listen before Sunday's gun goes off, and find out why all of Ohio is about to rally behind its king.Tap into the Vinny Mauri Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @vinny.mauri

Ethan Strand is a national champion who still believes he finished second.He found out Jonah Koech had been busted for doping in the middle of a treadmill run, when Parker Wolfe tapped him on the shoulder, and his first reaction was anger. In this conversation, Ethan tells Dominic why the title still feels strange, why he feels worse for Hobbs Kessler, and why he thinks a positive test should end a career. He also covers the unglamorous side of racing clean: updating his whereabouts before dinner, keeping the last pills from every supplement batch, and making an 80-minute round trip to meet a drug tester.Then there's his rookie year. Ethan admits he froze on the line at the Millrose two-mile, chasing a win with no plan, and that social media expectations helped sink his indoor season. Mike Smith's fix was to go back to basics: smaller races, pre-race checklists, and no talk of winning. Pre was where he felt like himself again, and the Silesia win over Hocker and Ingebrigtsen followed. So did Zurich four days later, which he blames on enjoying the attention too much.Ethan also talks about sessions with Parker and Nico Young at 7,000 feet, why he's running less mileage than he did at UNC, and why he'd beat Simeon Birnbaum seven times out of ten. And he shares what Jakob said in the Brussels call room.His goal for Year Two is to take more risks so that his bad days end in fifth instead of eleventh.Tap into the Ethan Strand Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @ethan_strand

Marcelo Mantecon has spent his whole career as the young guy. Not anymore.The Belen Jesuit senior joins Dominic for the next episode of our Fleet Feet series leading into the Brooks Cross Country National Championships, and he arrives carrying something he didn't have last December: a target. He talks about welcoming the pressure that comes with being the top returner, about what he absorbed watching Jackson Spencer stay calm on start lines while his own nerves churned, and about learning to convert that nervousness into excitement instead of dread.The training picture is stranger and simpler than you'd expect from the nation's most-watched high schooler. He doesn't wear a watch most days. He can't tell you his exact mileage, and he runs Miami's brutal humidity. He credits sleep above everything else for keeping himself intact, and he credits Frankie Ruiz, the coach he has known since birth, for a program built on consistency rather than heroics. Marcelo also revisits Balboa Park in detail: the gap that opened at the bottom of the hill, getting caught, and praying for one more surge with 300 meters left. His plan for the rematch is almost defiant: Have fun. Stay aggressive. Race like he still has nothing to lose.Along the way, the two discuss Flagstaff team trips and flooded shoes in the Everglades, his sister's rise, UNC and a future in finance, why the class of 2027 might be one of the deepest ever, and a post-race celebration involving roughly a hundred donuts.Tap into the Marcelo Mantecon Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @marcelo.mantecon

Two guys named Dom, one goal, two completely opposite ways of getting there.Dom Fusco returns to the show for the first time since March 2023, and this one isn't about his cardiac arrest—it's about the question flooding Dominic's DMs: how do you build real muscle without giving up your running times? Fusco has done it from the football side, Dominic from the distance running side, and both are now chasing sub-3 marathons this fall.They open where the Austin hybrid scene actually lives: peptides, HGH, and TRT. Fusco has never touched any of it and won't endorse it, but he's honest that more people are using it than listeners think. From there it's the practical stuff. Why you can't pull the endurance lever and the strength lever at the same time, and why seasons beat balance. Why the jacked hybrid athletes on your feed spent a decade lifting before they ever ran. Why full-body training three times a week beats a bro split. The triangle of performance, longevity, and aesthetics, and the cost of picking a corner.They also discuss Fusco's five foundational supplements, his case for creatine as a runner's recovery tool, and a blunt argument that most athletes are chronically underfueled—and why sometimes a burger and fries is the right call.He also puts his sub-3 confidence at 60%, admits he's failed three times, and explains what Austin heat has done to this block.Tap into the Dominic Fusco Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @dominicfusco TikTok: @dom_fusco YouTube: @DominicFusco

Alex Hutchinson ran his 1500-meter breakthrough because a timekeeper called the splits wrong.He’d been stuck at just over four minutes for three years. Then, in one indoor race, a mistimed clock told him he was running three seconds faster than he was—and he ran 3:52, then 3:49, then 3:44 across the next two months. His old coach went through the logs looking for the reason. There wasn’t one.That story sits at the center of this conversation with the physicist-turned-journalist behind Endure and the Sweat Science column at Outside. Alex is a self-described data guy who spent a career chasing what’s measurable and kept colliding with the part of running that isn’t: the days something shifts, the races where belief outperforms any supplement. He walks through the ice bath study that separated the cold water from the story we tell ourselves about it, the self-talk intervention that produced an 18 percent gain in time to exhaustion, and why he’s careful about debunking things that work because we believe in them.They also get into Breaking2 versus the Kipyegon sub-4 attempt, why times keep sliding and what that does to a high schooler, coaches who invent splits mid-workout and the trust that makes that work, and the two years Alex spent fighting his college program before deciding to run the workouts as written.At 50, he’s back racing masters cross country, for his teammates. They also touch on Zátopek, Paula Radcliffe, and why you should never, ever take a PR for granted.Tap into the Alex Hutchinson Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20X (formerly Twitter): @sweatscienceSubstack: Sweat Science Instagram: @sweat_science Facebook: Sweat Science Official Website: AlexHutchinson.net

Nobody quits while they're ahead.Alex Ostberg is back for the guys’ monthly walk through of The Rundown, and this one runs from the foundations of the sport to the psychology of knowing when to walk away.They open with ten things Alex wishes he knew as a high school runner—the talk that started this whole collaboration, and one he still finds himself repeating to professionals a decade later. Why consistency beats perfection. Why a plateau isn't a bug in the program. What quietly rots a team culture from the inside. And here’s the line worth writing down: you don't rise to the occasion, you fall back on your preparation.Then a runner's guide to protein: what this macronutrient is actually doing in a body that has nowhere to store it; what the science now says about the anabolic window and how much you can use in one sitting; where the real daily target comes from; and why the animal-versus-plant question is messier than either camp wants to admit. Dominic pushes back hard on the plant-based side, and Riley Witt's anti-electrolyte take gets its moment too.And then the hard one: why almost nobody quits on time; how sunk cost keeps runners in workouts, seasons, careers andrelationships long past their expiration date; and the two tools Alex uses to make that call before emotion takes the wheel.They close on a big weekend for Alex's athletes—a 1-2 at the US 20K Championships, a world title, and a marathon debut coming in Chicago.Tap into the The Rundown Recap Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20

Jordan Hasay Hogan never officially retired.She was the most hyped teenager in American distance running. She was a Foot Locker champion as a freshman, she acquired eight California state titles, was an Olympic Trials 1500m finalist at sixteen—and then went on to run a 2:20:57 marathon in Chicago. In this conversation, she opens up about the Nike Oregon Project years in a way almost nobody has.She walks Dominic through the actual training: 115-mile weeks, 25-mile long runs with fifteen at six-minute pace on an altitude treadmill before ten more miles at marathon pace, and Alberto Salazar's habit of tacking on surprise reps until athletes cracked. The centerpiece is the session she still calls the hardest of her life—a morning tempo, then 400s at 58 seconds that were supposed to be four and became ten, with Galen Rupp jumping in to pace, and Jordan averaging 58.7.Underneath all of it is faith. The priest who traveled with the group to majors, the wrist rosary she wore in every marathon, and the Catholic athletes' conference where she met Alberto by what she can only call fate. She explains the Kobe tribute kit at the 2020 Trials, the comment he left on her Instagram after she tore her hamstring, and how studying his mental game shaped the way she coaches today.On a comeback she's candid: most likely done, maybe one percent, and it would take a miracle. The fulfillment now comes from Hogan Performance and from her son, Micah.Tap into the Jordan Hasay Hogan Special. If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.S H O W N O T E S -The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffzBehind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZLuminaryThreads: luminarythreads.shop$20 off your next Attuned scan: https://attuned.health/discount/TRE20?ref=TRE20Instagram: @jordanhasay