
The Vertical Space
by Jim Barry, Peter Shannon & Luka Tomljenovic
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Est. Listeners
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- Per-Episode Audience
Est. listeners per new episode within ~30 days
1,001 - 10,000 - Monthly Reach
Unique listeners across all episodes (30 days)
5,001 - 25,000 - Active Followers
Loyal subscribers who consistently listen
501 - 5,000
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On the show
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Recent episodes
#109 Admiral Phil Kenul: What flying into hurricanes taught him about drone regulation
Apr 20, 2026
52m 21s
#108 Alex List, FlyShirley: 'Shirley' there's an opportunity for AI in the flight deck
Mar 17, 2026
1h 08m 51s
#107 Robert Rose, Reliable Robotics: Congressional testimony and conveyor belts in the sky
Feb 17, 2026
1h 15m 15s
#106 Koen De Vos: U-Space, U-Space… Where Art Thou?
Feb 3, 2026
1h 13m 23s
#105 Ben Ivers, Boeing: Airspace modernization
Dec 16, 2025
1h 06m 56s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 4/20/26 | ![]() #109 Admiral Phil Kenul: What flying into hurricanes taught him about drone regulation✨ | drone regulationhurricane hunting+4 | Admiral Phil Kenul | P-3 OrionGlobal Hawk+2 | — | drone regulationhurricane hunting+5 | — | 52m 21s | |
| 3/17/26 | ![]() #108 Alex List, FlyShirley: 'Shirley' there's an opportunity for AI in the flight deck | In this episode we sit down with Alex List, CEO and founder of FlyShirley, a startup building an AI copilot for the cockpit. Alex walks through what AI in aviation actually looks like today: the practical reality of a ground-based language model accessed via iPad helping pilots handle strategic, non-time-critical tasks like looking up service bulletins mid-flight, transcribing ATC clearances, finding alternates, and synthesizing information that would otherwise require a pilot to dig through ... | 1h 08m 51s | ||||||
| 2/17/26 | ![]() #107 Robert Rose, Reliable Robotics: Congressional testimony and conveyor belts in the sky | In this episode we reconnect with Robert Rose, CEO of Reliable Robotics, fresh off his testimony before Congress on the state of advanced air mobility. Robert shares what most people misunderstand about FAA certification, i.e. that the regulator isn't there to coach you through it, they're just calling balls and strikes. We explore why Reliable has spent eight years building autonomous systems within existing regulations rather than waiting for new rules, how they've convinced the FAA that ze... | 1h 15m 15s | ||||||
| 2/3/26 | ![]() #106 Koen De Vos: U-Space, U-Space… Where Art Thou? | In this episode we sit down with Koen De Vos, Secretary General of GUTMA, to unpack why U-Space still feels more aspirational than operational, and what aviation can learn from industries that have at least partially managed to digitize at scale. Drawing on parallels with the automotive sector, Koen explores how green technologies, automation, and system-level thinking could, and should, reshape aviation if the institutional and political pieces ever align. We dive into why U-Space has not me... | 1h 13m 23s | ||||||
| 12/16/25 | ![]() #105 Ben Ivers, Boeing: Airspace modernization | In this episode, we sit down with Ben Ivers (Boeing’s Director of Emerging Technologies & Regulatory Strategy) to unpack a deceptively simple idea: airspace modernization isn’t optional anymore and the tech to enable “automated flight rules” (AFR) is largely ready today. Ben argues the hard part isn’t the technology, but introducing a new flight mode alongside VFR and IFR that can scale drones, eVTOLs, and future autonomous operations without turning the sky into sanitized corridors reser... | 1h 06m 56s | ||||||
| 12/4/25 | ![]() #104 Edward Barraclough, Drone-Hand: Why ranching will scale autonomy before defense | Autonomy may scale in agriculture long before it does in defense or UAM, and today’s guest makes a compelling case why. We speak with Edward Barraclough, founder and CEO of Drone-Hand, about applying autonomous drones and on-device AI to the realities of livestock operations across Australia, New Zealand, North America, and beyond. Edward explains why ranching is the perfect proving ground for autonomy: massive land areas, urgent labor shortages, permissive operating environments, and ROI th... | 1h 12m 52s | ||||||
| 10/30/25 | ![]() #103 Ed Bastian, Delta Air Lines: Raising the ceiling of possibility | In this episode, Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian breaks down what truly differentiates a great airline: people and culture. Ed shares why “take care of your people first” isn’t a slogan (it’s Delta’s operating system!) and how that shows up in reliability, premium customer experience, and everyday leadership. We get a candid look at running a 100,000-person, 5,000-flights-a-day operation; the metrics he checks first (on-time arrivals and cash); and why accessibility and listening are his non-n... | 53m 00s | ||||||
| 10/21/25 | ![]() #102 Adam Woodworth, Wing: What aviation looks like at Google scale | Adam Woodworth, CEO of Wing (Alphabet’s drone delivery company), joins us to talk about making delivery ubiquitous and why drones should be an equal player alongside other delivery methods. Adam argues we’ve already passed the “risk peak” for UAS integration: the industry now has the operational data to validate safety targets, and the safest path is to fly more because drone trips displace riskier car trips. He traces Wing’s journey from Google X to Part 135 air carrier, the shift from “dron... | 1h 11m 09s | ||||||
| 10/9/25 | ![]() #101 Ryan Gury, PDW: Drones, Innovation, and Lady Gaga | Welcome to episode 101 of The Vertical Space. In this conversation, we sit down with Ryan Gury, Co-founder and CEO of Performance Drone Works (PDW). Ryan argues that “commercial is eating aerospace,” and shows why the center of gravity has shifted from exquisite programs to fast iteration, modular hardware, and drones treated as munitions. We dig into lessons from Ukraine, why precision from a foxhole beats posture from a ridge line and what “velocity + iteration” really means for design, man... | 1h 14m 18s | ||||||
| 9/25/25 | ![]() #100 Chris Hewlett, Project ULTRA: Why DoD will lead UAS integration | In this 100th episode, we sit down with Chris Hewlett, former Navy Commander and Director of Project Ultra, for a candid conversation about the realities of UAS integration. Chris challenges the industry’s rush toward community-based traffic management and questions whether UTM, as commonly envisioned, can ever deliver safe and scalable integration. He argues instead that the Department of Defense, through rigorous test, evaluation, and rapid operational deployment, will set the standard for ... | 1h 30m 59s | ||||||
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| 9/9/25 | ![]() #99 Jia Xu, SkyGrid: Opening the sky for autonomous flight | In this episode, we welcome back Jia Xu, CEO of SkyGrid, to discuss the future of autonomy and shared airspace. SkyGrid is building a trusted airspace and operational integration platform to enable safe, secure, and efficient autonomous flight. Jia highlights where the main bottlenecks and complexities exist across autonomy, advanced air mobility, and shared airspace, and how the industry can move forward. We cover regulatory frameworks such as Part 108 and Part 146, the role of data services... | 1h 17m 16s | ||||||
| 8/6/25 | ![]() #98 Ryan Graves, ASA: UAPs as a wake-up call for airspace safety and innovation | Ryan Graves is a former U.S. Navy F/A-18F pilot and the first active-duty pilot to publicly report regular UAP sightings. In this episode, we explore what these encounters reveal about gaps in our airspace sensing and safety infrastructure, and where the opportunities lie for better detection, data analysis, and aerospace innovation. Ryan also shares insights from his work at Americans for Safe Aerospace and AIAA, where he’s helping bring scientific rigor and policy attention to a long-overlo... | 1h 26m 24s | ||||||
| 7/17/25 | ![]() #97 Julie Garland, Avtrain: Drone business and regulation in Europe | In this episode we’re joined by Julie Garland, CEO of Avtrain, for a deep dive into the current state of the drone industry and regulation across Europe. Julie shares her perspective on why societal acceptance is just as critical as regulatory approval. We explore how operators like Manna are working to normalize drone activity and influence regulations, and why simplifying regulatory frameworks, including the SORA process, is essential to enable broader adoption of drone operations. The conv... | 1h 14m 27s | ||||||
| 7/3/25 | ![]() #96 Chad Sweet, ModalAI: Small, smarter, safer UAS - made in USA | In this episode, Chad Sweet, co-founder and CEO of ModalAI, joins us to explore the evolving drone landscape and what’s driving the next wave of innovation. Chad shares his perspective on the rising importance of FPV (first-person view) technology - especially in military and public safety applications - and why user experience, including ease of flight and high-quality video streaming, will be a key competitive edge going forward. We also dive into ModalAI’s strategic partnership with Q... | 1h 15m 12s | ||||||
| 6/17/25 | ![]() #95 Serhii Kupriienko, Swarmer: Building swarms in Ukraine’s drone war | Drone swarms are no longer science fiction - they're becoming one of the most disruptive technologies on the modern battlefield. In this episode, we speak with Serhii Kupriienko, founder and CEO of Swarmer, a Ukrainian startup building autonomous swarming capabilities for drones operating in the harshest conditions: GPS-denied, communications-jammed, and under fire. We dive deep into how drone warfare has evolved in Ukraine, the maturation - and limitations - of FPV drone tech, and what true ... | 1h 10m 12s | ||||||
| 6/4/25 | ![]() #94 Brandon Suarez, Reliable Robotics: Balancing safety and operational benefits | In this episode, we welcome back Brandon Suarez from Reliable Robotics, more than three years after his first appearance. Brandon leads the development of technical standards and global aviation policy, and this return visit offers a valuable perspective on how the aviation industry has evolved, and in some ways, diverged from expectations. The conversation centers on the implementation of automation in aviation and its operational and safety benefits, especially for general aviation. Brandon... | 1h 06m 51s | ||||||
| 5/20/25 | ![]() #93 Joey Rios, NASA and UTM: Solve Something Right Now | In this episode we sit down with Dr. Joey Rios, Chief Technologist for the Aviation Systems Division at NASA Ames Research Center, for a discussion on the evolution of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Traffic Management (UTM). Joey takes us through the early days of UTM development, reflecting on the foundational principles, the initial use cases, and how the vision has evolved over time. We dive deep into the challenges of airspace design, the reasoning behind the U.S. federated model, and how it c... | 1h 09m 34s | ||||||
| 5/6/25 | ![]() #92 Richard Aboulafia: Supply chain bottlenecks and the New Aerospace Order | Welcome back to The Vertical Space for our second conversation with Richard Aboulafia, an insightful voice on all things aerospace and defense. This episode dives deeper than ever into the aerospace and defense supply chain: globalization, vulnerabilities, titanium, rare earth elements, and why Tier 1 integrators may be losing their place in the industry. We explore how shifting geopolitics, material dependencies, and evolving national strategies are redrawing the map of the aeros... | 1h 14m 05s | ||||||
| 5/1/25 | ![]() #91 George Mattson, Wheels Up: The integrated customer experience | In this episode, we sit down with George Mattson, CEO of Wheels Up, for a conversation about leading one of the most recognized brands in private aviation. George shares his perspective on building Wheels Up into an aviation solutions company and what sets their model apart in a competitive industry. With his background on the board of Delta Airlines, he offers a unique lens on integrating commercial and private aviation to create a seamless customer experience. We explore the current landsca... | 1h 17m 58s | ||||||
| 4/8/25 | ![]() #90 Chris Gentile, Merlin: Inside the race for trusted tactical autonomy | In this episode we sit down with Chris Gentile, General Manager for Tactical Autonomy at Merlin, for an in-depth look at the evolving role of autonomy in defense. Chris outlines the value proposition of autonomy as a tool, not a standalone product, and discusses the principles of a modular, hybrid, and hierarchical architecture design in building robust autonomous systems. We explore how recent milestones in trusted autonomy are reshaping military strategy and capability, and how the technolo... | 1h 11m 53s | ||||||
| 3/25/25 | ![]() #89 Christian Ramsey, uAvionix: Tackling aviation safety from drones to airports | Welcome back to a conversation with Christian Ramsey, Chief Commercial Officer of uAvionix. Christian last joined us in 2022, and now, almost three years later, we revisit his predictions to see what played out as expected, and what didn’t. We kick things off with Remote ID: why it was selected, why it has failed to meet expectations, and how prioritizing low-cost implementation led to major performance shortcomings. Next, we get a masterclass on ADS-B, starting with its origins, benefits, an... | 1h 22m 10s | ||||||
| 3/12/25 | ![]() #88 Captain Lee Moak: The time for change is now | In this episode, we sit down with Captain Donald Lee Moak, a distinguished aviation leader. With experience spanning military and commercial aviation to boardroom leadership, Lee is known for driving change. He doesn’t just talk about change; he makes it happen. Our discussion centers on three major themes: the urgent need to modernize and privatize the U.S. air traffic control (ATC) system to enhance safety and efficiency, lessons from aviation’s strong safety record, and the recent rise in ... | 1h 12m 30s | ||||||
| 2/25/25 | ![]() #87 Arnaud Thiercelin, Orqa: Cutting through the gimmicks and winning the drone marathon | In this episode, we sit down with Arnaud Thiercelin, Chief Product Officer at Orqa, for a bold and eye-opening conversation about the present and future of drones and mobile robotics. Arnaud challenges the status quo, urging listeners to think beyond gimmicks and focus on delivering real value to end users. From FPV drones neutralizing M1 Abrams tanks to the West’s struggle to produce a viable DJI competitor, he doesn’t shy away from controversy. He calls out the industry's missteps and offer... | 1h 34m 53s | ||||||
| 2/11/25 | ![]() #86 Carey Cannon: 38 years of rotorcraft development – insights from a Bell Senior Chief Engineer | In this episode, retired Senior Chief Engineer Carey Cannon shares his 38-year journey at Bell Helicopter, talking about the realities of developing and deploying vertical lift aircraft. He discusses why many eVTOL manufacturers underestimate the time and cost required, why getting in the air is the easy part, and the enduring principles of helicopter design. Carey reflects on key programs like the V280 and EagleEye, the technology gaps he encountered, and the biggest technical and commercial... | 1h 18m 59s | ||||||
| 1/28/25 | ![]() #85 Sean Donohue, DFW Airport: A CEO's perspective on running a global airport | In this episode we dive into an engaging conversation with Sean Donohue, CEO of Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW). The discussion covers a broad range of topics such as the significant role of travel and tourism in the global economy, the strategies of introducing new technologies in aviation, and the operational priorities of running one of the world's largest airports. Sean provides insights into the complexities of balancing demand and supply in air traffic, his perspective on ... | 1h 17m 22s | ||||||
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Chart Positions
16 placements across 15 markets.
Chart Positions
16 placements across 15 markets.

























