This Machine Kills

We chat with Bruce Schneier — renowned security technologist and, most recently, co-author of Rewiring Democracy — to discuss the relationship between technology and democracy. We get into how people with money/power use systems like AI to create a flywheel of more money/power. But importantly, as an advocate of public-interest technology, Bruce also lays out how AI is being used to empower citizens and strengthen democracy, and the techno-political conditions needed to build these democratic systems. ••• Check out all of Bruce’s work https://www.schneier.com/ ••• Rewiring Democracy | Bruce Schneier and Nathan Sanders https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049948/rewiring-democracy/ ••• The Promptware Kill Chain: How Prompt Injections Gradually Evolved into a Multi-Step Malware https://www.schneier.com/academic/archives/2026/01/the-promptware-kill-chain-how-prompt-injections-gradually-evolved-into-a-multi-step-malware.html Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

We’re joined by Brian Chen — policy director at Data & Society — to discuss his new report on the Trump administration’s industrial policy for building The Big AI State. We lay out how Trump’s is bringing together various forms of intervention to ensure America achieves “global technological dominance.” This includes de-risking the construction of data centers and energy infrastructure, ensuring the American AI tech stack takes over global markets, and even acquiring equity stakes in major private industries in the AI supply chain. We discuss the means and ends of Trump’s industrial policy — and how these policy tools should be wielded differently by future administrations. ••• Great Power Antinomies https://www.phenomenalworld.org/analysis/great-power-antinomies/ ••• The Big AI State https://datasociety.net/library/the-big-ai-state/ Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

We chat with Ciara Keegan and Ilana Marcucci-Morris from the National Union of Healthcare Workers about their ongoing contract dispute with Kaiser Permamente over the use and role of AI in healthcare, especially mental and behavioural health. We discuss the impacts of AI on labor conditions and patient care in giant hospital systems like Kaiser — plus the ways Kaiser wants to leave the door open for deeper integration of AI and replacement of healthcare providers. ••• Kaiser, Don't Deny | NUHW https://kaiserdontdeny.org/ ••• Will AI Replace Your Therapist? Kaiser Won’t Say No https://www.kqed.org/science/1999553/will-ai-replace-your-therapist-kaiser-wont-say-no ••• Therapists went on a hunger strike to protest 'assembly line' conditions and the automation of mental healthcare https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p/therapists-went-on-a-hunger-strike Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

We’re joined yet again by Aaron Benanav to chat about his essays Beyond Capitalism. In this episode we discuss what it means to lay out concrete models for an alternative world—ones that are not overstructured as blueprints, but also not insubstantial as visions. We then detail the political economic foundations and institutional framework for building a different kind of society. ••• Beyond Capitalism Part 1 & 2 | Aaron Benanav https://www.aaronbenanav.com/papers ••• Capricon | Chicago Science Fiction Convention https://capricon.org/ Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

We’re joined by Aaron Benanav to get into his magisterial essays laying out a vision of society beyond capitalism. In part 1 of our conversation, we lay out his incisive analysis of how capitalism is a powerful system built on the obsessive, relentless optimization of one criteria: production for profit maximization. All other criteria are subordinated to this logic to the detriment of all priorities, values, or goals that we could pursue. The failures of previous alternatives to capitalism can be traced to a failure to change the goals, not just the tools of the system. Any real alternative must go beyond simply swapping in new means — the ways we achieve the optimization of economic efficiency — while maintaining the same purpose. They must change the ends of the system: from one criterion to rule them all to the flourishing of a multi-criterial economy. ••• Beyond Capitalism Part 1 & 2 | Aaron Benanav https://www.aaronbenanav.com/papers Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

After discussing the Council of Neo-Nicaea — but like, what if Jesus was an AI? — we then discuss an incredibly harrowing story of abusive practices at Alpha School, charter schools structured around AI authoritarianism where personalized learning software enact a cruel regimes of punishing metrics, where any humanity is replaced by the cold logic of optimization, where kids are indoctrinated early into the harsh reality of a control society. ••• Parents Fell in Love With Alpha School’s Promise. Then They Wanted Out https://www.wired.com/story/ai-teacher-inside-alpha-school/ ••• Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)

We chat with Becca Monteleone — author of The Double Bind of Disability: How Medical Technology Shapes Bodily Authority — about the critical intersection of disability and technology. Among many things, we get into the politics of how knowledge about the effects, experiences, and treatments for disability are produced, who has the authority to produce that knowledge, and who must be compliant to the power of that knowledge. ••• The Double Bind of Disability How Medical Technology Shapes Bodily Authority | Rebecca Monteleone https://www.upress.umn.edu/9781517917685/the-double-bind-of-disability/ Standing Plugs: ••• Order Jathan’s book: https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520398078/the-mechanic-and-the-luddite ••• Subscribe to Ed’s substack: https://substack.com/@thetechbubble ••• Subscribe to TMK on patreon for premium episodes: https://www.patreon.com/thismachinekills Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (bsky.app/profile/jathansadowski.com) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (www.x.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (bsky.app/profile/jebr.bsky.social)