
Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change
by Michael Liebreich, Bryony Worthington
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From 15 epsHosts
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From Iran to Paris: How The US Makes And Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: Secretary John Kerry
Jun 24, 2026
Unknown duration
Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li
Jun 17, 2026
Unknown duration
How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen
Jun 10, 2026
56m 40s
RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.
Jun 3, 2026
1h 04m 21s
Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall
May 27, 2026
1h 00m 51s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/24/26 | From Iran to Paris: How The US Makes And Breaks Global Deals | Ep263: Secretary John Kerry | Since Donald Trump returned to the Presidency in 2025, the US has become increasingly isolationist. It has pulled out of the Paris climate agreement and the IPCC, left the World Health Organisation, as well as a whole host of other international organisations and agencies. So, when President Trump leaves the White House, will the US be able to rebuild trust on the international stage? This week on Cleaning Up, former US Secretary of State and Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry sits down with Michael Liebreich and reflects on some of the defining diplomatic efforts of his career, from negotiating the Iran nuclear deal to helping secure the Paris Climate Agreement. Secretary Kerry explains how years of relationship-building and behind the scenes diplomacy helped bring Iran to the negotiating table and why he believes the original nuclear agreement succeeded in limiting Iran's nuclear programme. He also shares his frustration at what he sees as the dismantling of agreements and relationships that took years to build, and the challenge of restoring trust in US leadership on the global stage. Secretary Kerry also shares his perspective on working with China, the importance of international cooperation, and the role diplomacy still has to play. They also discuss rebuilding trust in US leadership, and the shifting balance between the US and China in clean energy. Topics Include: How the Obama administration negotiated limits on Iran's nuclear programme The diplomacy behind the Paris Climate Agreement The meaning of "common but differentiated" in climate diplomacy Lessons from Kyoto, Paris and Dubai on international climate agreements Why engaging adversaries matters more than isolating them How can the U.S. rebuild trust on a global stage? Petrostate vs electrostate: the shifting US-China dynamic Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: John Kerry’s bio: https://galvanizeclimate.com/team/secretary-john-kerry Galvanize https://galvanizeclimate.com/ Our Ocean Conference https://www.ouroceanconference.org/ Todd Stern on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnZzO6CMI8 Ernie Moniz on Cleaning Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0shzlRv4MTY Acronyms: ADNOC - Abu Dhabi National Oil Company LNG - Liquified Natural Gas OPCW - Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons ESG - Environment, Social and Governance IRGC - Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps | — | ||||||
| 6/17/26 | Build Fast, Build Now: How China Became an Energy Superpower | Ep262: Professor Ning Li | Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago. In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recent global energy shocks better than many expected, how electrification is transforming economic resilience, and why solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles have become China's most important exports. They explore whether the world is really swapping dependence on fossil fuels for dependence on Chinese electrotech, why modularity has become the defining feature of successful modern technologies, and what lessons other countries can learn from China's rapid industrial scaling. The discussion also covers the future of nuclear power, the role of coal in supporting China's grid, the untapped potential of heat pumps, and why the energy transition should be framed not as a burden, but as an opportunity for growth. Topics include: Why China has been relatively resilient to oil and gas disruptions The rise of the "electrostate" China's new energy exports: EVs, batteries and solar Why modular technologies scale faster The origins of the Small Modular Reactor concept The changing role of coal in China's power system Heat pumps and industrial electrification Nuclear power's future in China Climate action as economic development Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Ning Li bio: https://thebreakthrough.org/people/ning-li Octopus’ Fiona Howarth on the EV partnership with BYD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL64XW5ZRBA | — | ||||||
| 6/10/26 | How Wind Energy Overtook Nuclear in Just Two Decades | Ep261: Henrik Andersen✨ | wind energynuclear power+4 | Henrik Andersen | Vestas | — | wind powernuclear energy+5 | — | 56m 40s | |
| 6/3/26 | RCP8.5 Is Dead, What Comes Next? Ep260: Roger Pielke, Jr.✨ | climate changeRCP8.5+3 | Roger Pielke Jr. | American Enterprise InstituteUniversity of Colorado at Boulder+1 | — | RCP8.5climate risk+3 | — | 1h 04m 21s | |
| 5/27/26 | Why Flexible Power Is Suddenly So Valuable | Ep259: Håkan Agnevall✨ | flexible power generationrenewable energy+4 | Håkan Agnevall | WärtsiläInternational Maritime Organisation | — | flexible generationgrid stability+8 | — | 1h 00m 51s | |
| 5/20/26 | Can Anyone Catch China's Clean Tech Lead? Ep258: Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich✨ | geopolitical shocksenergy transition+5 | Bryony Worthington | AILNG+2 | ChinaCalifornia+1 | Chinaclean tech+8 | — | 54m 33s | |
| 5/13/26 | India’s Solar Revolution Is Bringing Cheap Energy To Millions | Ep257: Harish Hande✨ | solar energyaffordability+4 | Harish Hande | Selco FoundationIIT Kharagpur+1 | IndiaBangalore | solar revolutionenergy trilemma+4 | — | 1h 06m 24s | |
| 5/6/26 | Why Are We Electrifying So Slowly? The Electrification Staircase | Ep256: Adrian Hiel, Silvia Madeddu, William Drake & Thomas Butler✨ | electrificationenergy systems+5 | Adrian HielSilvia Madeddu+2 | Electrification AllianceSchneider Electric+2 | — | electrificationenergy transition+5 | — | 55m 44s | |
| 4/29/26 | Europe Needs Clean Tech More Than Ever | Ep 255: Thomas Pellerin-Carlin✨ | European energy policyclimate strategy+5 | Thomas Pellerin-Carlin | European ParliamentGreen Deal+2 | EuropeUkraine+1 | clean techenergy policy+7 | — | 1h 15m 40s | |
| 4/22/26 | The Era Of Fossil Fuel Unreliability Has Begun | Ep 254: Jennifer Granholm✨ | global energy supply chainsclean energy race+5 | Jennifer Granholm | U.S. EnergyChina+2 | U.S.China | fossil fuelsenergy transition+8 | — | 45m 34s | |
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| 4/15/26 | The Mother of All Energy Crises | Ep253: Fatih Birol✨ | energy crisisclimate change+4 | Fatih Birol | International Energy Agency | U.S.Venezuela+2 | energy crisisclimate change+5 | — | 27m 59s | |
| 4/8/26 | Energy Shocks, Inflation & Risk: How a Central Bank Responds to Crisis | Ep252: Pierre Wunsch✨ | central bankingenergy shocks+5 | Pierre Wunsch | National Bank of BelgiumEuropean Central Bank+2 | — | central bankenergy volatility+5 | — | 1h 07m 34s | |
| 4/1/26 | Can We Cool The Planet, And Should We Try? | Ep251: Ricken Patel✨ | climate riskgeoengineering+4 | Ricken Patel | AvaazClimate Hub+3 | OxfordHarvard+4 | climate riskgeoengineering+5 | — | 1h 07m 51s | |
| 3/25/26 | Heavy Engineering Solutions for High-Emission Problems | Ep250: Emmanouil Kakaras✨ | engineeringemissions+5 | Emmanouil Kakaras | Mitsubishi Heavy IndustriesCopenhagen Infrastructure Partners+15 | — | gas turbinesthermodynamics+5 | — | 1h 10m 54s | |
| 3/19/26 | Can We Stop Data Centres Breaking The Grid? Ep249: Varun Sivaram & Steve Smith✨ | data centresAI revolution+4 | Varun SivaramSteve Smith | Emerald AINational Grid+2 | — | data centresAI+7 | — | 1h 06m 04s | |
| 3/11/26 | Are Fossil Fuel Cars About to Have Their Kodak Moment? Ep248: Fiona Howarth✨ | electric vehiclesenergy grid+4 | Fiona Howarth | Octopus Electric VehiclesOctopus Energy+1 | UK | electric carsenergy system+6 | — | 1h 09m 51s | |
| 3/6/26 | ![]() Iran Will Reshape Oil, Gas & Clean Energy For Years To Come | Bryony Worthington & Michael Liebreich✨ | global energy marketsIran conflict+5 | — | — | IranMiddle East+3 | Iranenergy markets+6 | — | 52m 34s | |
| 3/4/26 | How To Build Quickly In An Era of Fossil Fuel Shocks | Ep247: Hilde Tonne | How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities behind the energy transition. From offshore wind and nuclear to grid bottlenecks and data centre demand, Hilde brings a uniquely systems-level perspective shaped by decades leading infrastructure transformation across telecoms, energy and engineering. They dive into: Why grid investment, not generation, may be Europe’s biggest constraint Whether hyperscaler AI companies should foot the bill for massive grid upgrades The hidden bottlenecks in regulation, permitting and procurement • How ‘total design’ thinking can cut carbon by 40% before construction even begins Whether electrification makes Europe more resilient, or more exposed Hilde argues that this transition is no longer just about climate. It’s about security, competitiveness, affordability and economic growth. But achieving it will require rethinking regulation, redesigning infrastructure and the bureaucracy around it, and aligning public and private capital at unprecedented scale. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and more: Arup’s website: https://www.arup.com/ Inside Europe’s Largest Data Centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w | — | ||||||
| 2/25/26 | The Audacious Plan To Build a Transatlantic Electricity Cable | Ep246: Laurent Segalen | This week on Cleaning Up, host Bryony Worthington sits down with investor and energy strategist Laurent Segalen, co-host of the Redefining Energy podcast, for a sweeping conversation that spans carbon markets, uranium trading, battery innovation, and Laurent’s bold plan to connect Canada and Europe with a 5,000km subsea electricity cable. Laurent shares the personal moments that shaped his obsession with energy security, from witnessing Cold War division in Germany to cleaning an oil spill off the beaches of Brittany, and how those experiences led him to the heart of Europe’s carbon trading system and into high-stakes commodity markets. Along the way, Laurent recounts: How he became becoming one of the most profitable uranium traders on the market The financial mechanics behind interconnectors, and why east-west cables make money Why sodium batteries could reshape grid storage His experience designing carbon markets, and whether they are working or not. At the centre of the discussion is NATO-L (North Atlantic Transmission One Link): an audacious proposal to link Canadian hydro and wind to European markets through ultra-high-voltage subsea cables. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and more: NATO-L website: https://nato-l.com/ Redefining Energy Podcast: https://www.redefining-energy.com/ Ep92: Simon Morrish "650 Leagues of HVDC Under the Sea": https://youtu.be/m6KIMswZkWA | — | ||||||
| 2/18/26 | Why Renewables Are Booming Despite the Politics | Ep245: Miguel Stilwell d'Andrade | This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies.From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of the decade. He also shares how EDP transformed itself from an 80% coal-based utility into a company generating over 90% of its electricity from renewables.But the transition hasn’t been entirely smooth. Miguel recounts the dramatic moment when Spain’s grid collapsed, taking Portugal down with it, and what it taught him about resilience, grid stability, and the hidden challenges of running a modern clean power system.They also dive into:Why soaring power demand is changing energy economicsThe real story behind renewable costs and rising electricity pricesThe link between European competitiveness and energy independenceThe political and economic reality of investing in US clean energyWhy resilience may define the next phase of the transitionThis episode was recorded prior to the recent storms in Portugal. For more information on how EDP is responding to the storms, and what to do if you are affected by them, please visit: www.edp.comLeadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links and more:EDP website: https://edp.com/enThe £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Lg1A958aAThe Enormous Ambition Of Germany’s New Grid Build Out | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgUuJ-dx78The $60 Billion Plan For Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre | Ep235: Robert Dunn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3wThe Price of Resilience - Ep8: Roger Dennis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CELQT31riDE | — | ||||||
| 2/11/26 | The Billion-Tonne Promise of Carbon Dioxide Removal Isn't Working Out | Ep244: Robert Höglund | This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with carbon removal insider Robert Höglund, CEO of Marginal Carbon, co-founder of CDR.fyi and architect of MilkyWire’s Climate Transformation Fund, for a deep dive into what’s working and what’s not in carbon dioxide removal and corporate climate action.Drawing on five years of hands-on experimentation funding everything from biochar to direct air capture and policy advocacy, Höglund challenges the dominant “speed and scale” narrative. Instead, he makes the case for a new phase: prove and learn. Together, Michael and Robert unpack why the highest-impact climate interventions are often the least measurable, why corporate net-zero targets are more conditional than we admit, and what it will actually take to make carbon removal credible, scalable, and worth paying for.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links and more: Marginal Carbon: Marginal CarbonCDR.fyi: https://www.cdr.fyi/MilkyWire Climate Transformation Fund: https://milkywire.com/Carbon Gap: https://carbongap.org/Julio Friedmann on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/DX7k6qnTxE8 | — | ||||||
| 2/4/26 | The World Decides: Clean Energy or Oil & Gas? | Ep243: Damilola Ogunbiyi | What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damilola Ogunbiyi, CEO and UN Special Representative for Sustainable Energy for All and Co-Chair of UN Energy. Together, they explore how Africa and the wider Global South are quietly reshaping the global energy transition, from rapid growth in solar, storage, mini-grids, and EVs to bold policy moves that many developed economies haven’t dared to make.They dive into why energy access is about dignity, health, and gender equality; why finance, not technology, is the real bottleneck; and how local capital, data, and innovation could determine whether “Most of World” powers its future with clean energy or fossil fuels.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links and more:Sustainable Energy For All: https://www.seforall.orgDamilola’s past appearances on Cleaning Up:https://youtu.be/TbN1Y1C0idohttps://youtu.be/VcpNOmm1pMwBan Ki-moon on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/B14_MeRhfBwThe Sierra Leone Documentary: https://youtu.be/z-5QjSfy2SMClemens Calice on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/urmP7zN6n04Alain Ebobissé on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/ISTvp0BQz3E | — | ||||||
| 1/28/26 | The State of the Climate 2026 | Ep242: Zeke Hausfather | How do we model the climate system? How warm will 2026 be? And can geoengineering be anything more than a bandaid? This week on Cleaning Up, Bryony Worthington sits down with leading climate scientist Dr. Zeke Hausfather on the day the 2025 global temperature data is released. Despite a La Niña year, the planet has just experienced one of its hottest years on record — pushing us ever closer to the 1.5°C threshold. Zeke explains why recent warming has accelerated, how declining air pollution may be unmasking hidden heating, and what disappearing cloud cover could mean for climate sensitivity. The conversation ranges from the surprising accuracy of early climate models, the risks of rising nationalism, and what the U.S. withdrawal from international science means for the world. They also tackle controversial questions: Are worst-case climate scenarios still plausible? Is geoengineering a dangerous distraction — or an emergency brake? And can carbon removals ever work economically at scale. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Discover more: Zeke’s articles in the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/by/zeke-hausfather Zeke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zeke-hausfather-7327699/ Zeke’s Blog on Substack: https://www.theclimatebrink.com/p/my-2026-and-2027-global-temperature | — | ||||||
| 1/21/26 | Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice | Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe?Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rapidly. It is set to grow from 1.5 billion people today to 2.5 billion by 2050. And it could reach 4 billion by 2100, accounting for two out of every five people on the planet. Africans want and deserve the same prosperity shared by richer parts of the world. And that means investment. So why is investment not flowing? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich speaks with Clemens Calice, CEO and founder of Cygnum Capital, which invests around $1.3 billion in Africa’s energy transition. Together they explore why risk perception and outdated models are slowing investment across Africa. From rooftop solar for factories and mines, to electric motorbikes, power pools, and the geopolitics of gas, this episode makes the pragmatic case for how Africa can leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient energy future.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Discover more:Cygnum Capital: https://www.cygnumcapital.comEpisode 196, Lucy Heintz of Actis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhGDI_0QIHgEpisode 216, Daniel Calderon of Alcazar Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMhFOWO4C84Episode 120, Ana Hajduka, founder of Africa Green Co.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktWh_G6Sw_g | — | ||||||
| 1/14/26 | Climate Action vs Cost of Living: Can We Do Both? | Ep240: Katie White, UK Climate Minister | How do we build a clean energy system while bringing UK bills down? Can the UK’s landmark Climate Change Act stand up to a fractured climate politics? And does increasing global instability make home-grown energy more important than ever?This week’s episode of Cleaning Up comes to you from inside of the UK’s Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, where last week Bryony Worthington sat down with Katie White MP, the UK’s recently appointed Climate Minister, to discuss her new role, what she’s excited about, and current challenges that she’s facing.Katie and Bryony met more than 20 years ago when they worked together at Friends of the Earth on the campaign for the Climate Change Act. In her new role, Katie is now the minister responsible for carbon budgets and net zero, alongside other climate priorities. It was only 12 months after she was elected as an MP for Leeds North West that Katie was promoted Climate Minister, in what she’s described as her dream job.From their shared history campaigning for the Climate Change Act to today’s challenges of energy affordability, electrification and public consent, Katie and Bryony unpack what’s working, what isn’t, and how to connect climate action to lower bills, stronger security and a better quality of life.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Discover more:Katie White biography and brief: https://www.gov.uk/government/people/katie-whiteKatie White’s constituency website: https://katiewhitemp.org.uk/ | — | ||||||
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