Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change

Professor Ning Li has spent decades at the intersection of energy, technology and industrial strategy. A nuclear engineer, complexity scientist and founding Dean of the School of Energy at Xiamen University, he is also credited with coining the term "Small Modular Reactor" nearly 20 years ago. In this wide-ranging conversation with Bryony Worthington, Ning Li explains why China has weathered recent global energy shocks better than many expected, how electrification is transforming economic resilience, and why solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles have become China's most important exports. They explore whether the world is really swapping dependence on fossil fuels for dependence on Chinese electrotech, why modularity has become the defining feature of successful modern technologies, and what lessons other countries can learn from China's rapid industrial scaling. The discussion also covers the future of nuclear power, the role of coal in supporting China's grid, the untapped potential of heat pumps, and why the energy transition should be framed not as a burden, but as an opportunity for growth. Topics include: Why China has been relatively resilient to oil and gas disruptions The rise of the "electrostate" China's new energy exports: EVs, batteries and solar Why modular technologies scale faster The origins of the Small Modular Reactor concept The changing role of coal in China's power system Heat pumps and industrial electrification Nuclear power's future in China Climate action as economic development Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, Ecopragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information about the Leadership Circle, visit cleaningup.live Links: Ning Li bio: https://thebreakthrough.org/people/ning-li Octopus’ Fiona Howarth on the EV partnership with BYD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL64XW5ZRBA

How can we build out clean energy and infrastructure faster? Is Europe engineering its way to resilience, or pricing itself out of competitiveness? And can we redesign the entire system fast enough to keep up with AI, electrification and rising demand? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Hilde Tonne, Chair of Arup and former CEO of Statnett, to explore the hard realities behind the energy transition. From offshore wind and nuclear to grid bottlenecks and data centre demand, Hilde brings a uniquely systems-level perspective shaped by decades leading infrastructure transformation across telecoms, energy and engineering. They dive into: Why grid investment, not generation, may be Europe’s biggest constraint Whether hyperscaler AI companies should foot the bill for massive grid upgrades The hidden bottlenecks in regulation, permitting and procurement • How ‘total design’ thinking can cut carbon by 40% before construction even begins Whether electrification makes Europe more resilient, or more exposed Hilde argues that this transition is no longer just about climate. It’s about security, competitiveness, affordability and economic growth. But achieving it will require rethinking regulation, redesigning infrastructure and the bureaucracy around it, and aligning public and private capital at unprecedented scale. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and more: Arup’s website: https://www.arup.com/ Inside Europe’s Largest Data Centre: https://youtu.be/juAyLAUmU3w

This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Miguel Stilwell d’Andrade, CEO of EDP, one of the world’s leading clean energy companies.From the front lines of the energy transition, Miguel explains why electricity demand in the United States is exploding, driven by AI, data centres, and re-industrialisation, and why this could make renewables one of the most attractive investments of the decade. He also shares how EDP transformed itself from an 80% coal-based utility into a company generating over 90% of its electricity from renewables.But the transition hasn’t been entirely smooth. Miguel recounts the dramatic moment when Spain’s grid collapsed, taking Portugal down with it, and what it taught him about resilience, grid stability, and the hidden challenges of running a modern clean power system.They also dive into:Why soaring power demand is changing energy economicsThe real story behind renewable costs and rising electricity pricesThe link between European competitiveness and energy independenceThe political and economic reality of investing in US clean energyWhy resilience may define the next phase of the transitionThis episode was recorded prior to the recent storms in Portugal. For more information on how EDP is responding to the storms, and what to do if you are affected by them, please visit: www.edp.comLeadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links and more:EDP website: https://edp.com/enThe £60 Billion Plan To Rewire Britain | Ep227: John Pettigrew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Lg1A958aAThe Enormous Ambition Of Germany’s New Grid Build Out | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQgUuJ-dx78The $60 Billion Plan For Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre | Ep235: Robert Dunn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juAyLAUmU3wThe Price of Resilience - Ep8: Roger Dennis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CELQT31riDE

What if the future of clean energy isn’t decided in Washington, Brussels, or Beijing, but in Lagos, Nairobi, and Addis Ababa? Are we underestimating how fast the Global South is leapfrogging fossil fuels? And what happens when clean energy becomes the cheapest, fastest path to development, not a climate sacrifice?In this episode of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich is joined for a third time by Damilola Ogunbiyi, CEO and UN Special Representative for Sustainable Energy for All and Co-Chair of UN Energy. Together, they explore how Africa and the wider Global South are quietly reshaping the global energy transition, from rapid growth in solar, storage, mini-grids, and EVs to bold policy moves that many developed economies haven’t dared to make.They dive into why energy access is about dignity, health, and gender equality; why finance, not technology, is the real bottleneck; and how local capital, data, and innovation could determine whether “Most of World” powers its future with clean energy or fossil fuels.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Links and more:Sustainable Energy For All: https://www.seforall.orgDamilola’s past appearances on Cleaning Up:https://youtu.be/TbN1Y1C0idohttps://youtu.be/VcpNOmm1pMwBan Ki-moon on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/B14_MeRhfBwThe Sierra Leone Documentary: https://youtu.be/z-5QjSfy2SMClemens Calice on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/urmP7zN6n04Alain Ebobissé on Cleaning Up: https://youtu.be/ISTvp0BQz3E

Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential? And what would it take to unlock an energy boom that benefits both Africa and Europe?Spread across 54 countries and with a combined GDP the size of Italy, Africa's population is young and growing rapidly. It is set to grow from 1.5 billion people today to 2.5 billion by 2050. And it could reach 4 billion by 2100, accounting for two out of every five people on the planet. Africans want and deserve the same prosperity shared by richer parts of the world. And that means investment. So why is investment not flowing? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich speaks with Clemens Calice, CEO and founder of Cygnum Capital, which invests around $1.3 billion in Africa’s energy transition. Together they explore why risk perception and outdated models are slowing investment across Africa. From rooftop solar for factories and mines, to electric motorbikes, power pools, and the geopolitics of gas, this episode makes the pragmatic case for how Africa can leapfrog to a cleaner, more resilient energy future.Leadership Circle:Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.Discover more:Cygnum Capital: https://www.cygnumcapital.comEpisode 196, Lucy Heintz of Actis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhGDI_0QIHgEpisode 216, Daniel Calderon of Alcazar Energy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMhFOWO4C84Episode 120, Ana Hajduka, founder of Africa Green Co.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktWh_G6Sw_g