Passle CMO Series Podcast

Business development is something every law firm talks about, but far fewer truly embed it into the day-to-day habits of their lawyers. On the latest episode on the CMO Series Podcast, we sit down with Gemma Francis, a legal BD consultant who spent years working in-house before stepping out on her own. Gemma now works closely with law firms and lawyers to rethink business development approaches, focusing on mindset, practical habits, and bringing associates into the process much earlier. In today’s episode, Gemma offers a fresh perspective on the common misconceptions lawyers have about BD, the barriers that firms face, and the simple steps that BD and marketing teams can take to create real momentum. Gemma also explores: The moment she realised there was room for improvement in BD What she wishes she’d known during her former in-house career The benefits of involving early associates in BD How to overcome internal blockers stopping BD momentum Key priorities for driving BD traction

Client experience is fast becoming a key driver of long-term growth for law firms that want to deliver real value, build lasting client relationships and stand out in the market. On today’s new episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins joins Vanessa Crocetto, who recently became Butzel’s first Chief Experience Officer, after more than a decade leading the marketing and business development department. Vanessa now focuses on how clients experience the firm day to day, reflecting the firm’s commitment to driving exceptional client service and sustainable growth as a mid-sized firm. Vanessa and Charles discuss where client experience meets marketing and BD, how culture shows up in those moments, and the work she is doing to turn client insight into action. She also dives into: How her career journey has shaped her client approach What a client-centered culture looks like in practice Transitioning from a CMO to a CXO Current client experience initiatives at Butzel Practical advice for others moving into client experience leadership

The most effective legal marketing today is designed to be useful, not just visible. Firms that are seeing real results are building targeted campaigns that connect insight directly to client need and, ultimately, to revenue. In today's episode of the CMO Series, Will Eke is joined by Kimberly Rennick, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Thompson Coburn, to explore how bespoke, timely initiatives can become powerful business development engines. Kim shares how Thompson Coburn turned a moment in the news cycle into a practical tariff analysis tool for clients, why linking top-of-funnel marketing to bottom-of-funnel BD is essential, and how authentic leadership plays a critical role in driving innovation at a time of rapid change in the legal profession. They also delve into: The compelling nature of Thompson Coburn’s culture How targeted marketing campaigns can really move the dial How to break down often siloed areas of business The tangible impacts following the launch of the tariff analysis tool What authentic leadership really involves

To mark International Women’s Day 2026, Part two of our special episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS brings together senior leaders from across the legal sector to focus on one thing. How firms turn intent into action for women in law. The conversation centres on advocacy and access, who is in the room when decisions are made, who gets named in the room when they are not there, and who is given real exposure to clients, leadership and opportunity. Our guests discuss how progress doesn’t happen by chance. Firms must create structured pathways to influence, move beyond informal networks and back women with visible sponsorship. Flexibility and parental support also need to be real, not theoretical, if firms want talent to thrive. The episode offers practical advice on building open, transparent cultures where equity is embedded into how firms operate. We’re so grateful to all of our guests for joining this special episode: Raj Aujla, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs, Charles Russell Speechlys Aubrey Bishai, Chief Innovation Officer, Vinson and Elkins Sarah-Jane Howitt, Business Development & Marketing Director and Partner, Weightmans LLP Susan Kurz, Chief Marketing and Client Development Officer, Calfee, Halter and Griswold LLP Laura Louw, Director of Business Development, Norton Rose Fulbright Laura Ottley, Chief Marketing Officer, Addleshaw Goddard Susanne Pugsley, Director of Business Development and Marketing, Carpmaels and Ransford Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer, Edwin Coe Anna Steinberg, Chief Marketing Officer, Tressler LLP Kerri Vermeylen, Chief Marketing Officer, Sidley Austin LLP

Building that long-term leverage can be difficult with short bursts of visibility. You need to consistently show up, make yourself known, and build relationships before you need them. In today’s CMO Series Rainmakers episode, we are joined by Laurie Burlingame, a Corporate Partner at Morse, who shares her grounded view on what rainmaking really looks like in this current legal market as proactive networking becomes more crucial than ever. With a background that spans science, an MBA in finance and accounting, and nearly two decades in Big Law during the explosive growth of Boston’s life sciences sector, Laurie has built her practice at the intersection of technical complexity, capital, and client trust. She shares her hard-earned advice on the importance of valued relationships, having a clear understanding of shifting client expectations, and why thought leadership is a non-negotiable for leaders. Alex and Laurie discuss: Her scientific approach to client problem-solving The effect of AI on shifting client expectations How to maintain momentum and stay top of mind with clients The importance of cross-selling to build trust internally Structural differences between Big Law and smaller firms Effective networking advice to build long-term relationships

True innovation in law firms goes beyond AI. It's rooted in humanity, with the people and process creating true client value. On today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Aubrey Bishai, Chief Innovation Officer at Vinson & Elkins, to explore the true meaning of innovation and the evolving client expectations around AI. Aubrey joins us to unpack how the firm’s unique leadership structure really works in practice. Aubrey shares insights into how she decides what’s worth investing in beyond the AI hype, and why she believes innovation is a “deeply human endeavour.” They discuss the role of marketing and BD in driving meaningful change, and what’s next for innovation at Vinson & Elkins in 2026. Tune in to hear: Aubrey’s career journey into the innovation space Her definition of innovation and the power of small changes The importance of human experience at every step How following client needs drives quick changes Practical advice on adopting a system-wide approach to innovation

Building a book of business isn’t about being perfect or staying invisible, it’s about being consistently authentic and recognizable long before clients even need you. On today’s episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, we’re joined by someone who has redefined what it means to build a book of business in Big Law. Mona Dajani, Partner and the Global Co-Chair of the Energy, Infrastructure and Hydrogen teams and Co-Chair of the Baker Botts Energy sector worldwide, has spent more than 25 years carving out a reputation as one of the most dynamic and recognisable voices in the sector. From broadcasting A-list interviews on early-morning TV to posting daily market insights, Mona has turned visibility, personality and consistency into a true competitive advantage. Her ability to generate work, often from followers, viral posts and even dinner parties, is the definition of rainmaking. Tune in to hear: Mona’s unique career journey from broadcasting to law The role of authenticity in driving business Leveraging thought leadership and cross-selling for big client wins The role of the human behind the lawyer Practical advice for building a book of business

Standing out in a crowded market increasingly depends on carving out a clear niche and owning it with confidence. In this episode of CMO Series Rainmakers, Sarah Strachan is joined by Tom Whittaker, Director and Head of AI (Advisory) at Burges Salmon, to explore how lawyers can build authority by becoming the go-to voice in an emerging area. Tom shares how an early interest in writing evolved into a focused thought leadership strategy, positioning him at the forefront of AI regulation long before the space became crowded. They discuss when thought leadership first clicked for Tom, how he identified an opportunity in a fast-moving regulatory landscape, and the importance of consistency and clarity in building credibility. Tom and Sarah cover: The early stages of Tom's career, and the moment he realised that writing and thought leadership could play a meaningful role in his development How he began positioning himself in the AI space before it really gained traction The shift from specialising in AI to becoming the person clients and government bodies actively seek out How thought leadership has helped build a profile and generate new opportunities How to keep insights timely and build visibility in a fast-moving regulatory landscape How to encourage a culture of writing, collaboration and knowledge-sharing inside the firm Practical steps for lawyers looking to carve out a niche

What does it take to modernise a 450-year-old law firm without losing the legacy that makes it iconic? Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Thomson Snell & Passmore, has spent over a decade answering that question in real-time. She has built a business development culture from the ground up, brought PR in-house, and helped the firm deliver big law impact on a regional budget. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlotte joins Will Eke to talk through that journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Charlotte and Will cover: Charlotte’s journey from big law to a regional role at Thomson Snell & Passmore, and the moment business development became her focus The biggest differences and similarities between a regional independent firm and a big law firm How to build a reputation that punches above its weight and delivers big law impact on a leaner budget The history of Thomson Snell & Passmore and how to strike the balance between heritage and keeping the brand modern and relevant How to compete with limited resources, where to focus investment, and what to leave off the table Key projects Charlotte is driving forward right now Advice for others trying to market a regional or mid-sized firm with limited resources

For this year’s Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an outstanding group of legal marketing leaders to reflect on the people and practices that have shaped their careers. What emerges is a clear and compelling message about the importance of trust, collaboration and shared generosity in building strong marketing teams and firm cultures. Thank you to our special guests for sharing their insights:Angela Pandolfo Roy, Chief Marketing Officer at Gibbons, Maura Brandt, Chief Marketing Officer at Crowell & Moring, Sarah Kempsey, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Montgomery McCracken, Michael Huntsman, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Bilzin Sumberg Baena Price & Axelrod, Phill McGowan, Founder of Phill McGowan Marketing, Alexandra DeFelice, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jeffer Mangels Butler & Mitchell LLP, Vanessa Crocetto, Chief Marketing Officer at Butzel, Douglas Gold, Chief Operating Officer at Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP, Rebecca Wissler, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ice Miller, Danielle Wuschke Paige, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at Nixon Peabody LLP, and Lindsey McReynolds, Chief Client Relations Officer at Schwabe Williamson & Wyatt. Across the episode, they share how firms can build environments where collaboration truly thrives. Creating space for people to contribute, recognising effort, supporting new ideas and giving credit freely all strengthen teams and empower talent to grow. Their reflections remind us that the most successful organisations are built on trust and a genuine willingness to lift others up. It’s a thoughtful and timely conversation for this season of gratitude. Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Most law firm CMOs agree that cross-selling is the fastest and most cost-effective way to grow law firm revenue. Yet, our latest research shows that 84% of law firms are missing out on these opportunities. The biggest barriers to cross-selling success are awareness and trust. Lawyers need the confidence to refer work which requires trust across teams, and they need visibility into the full scope of the firm’s expertise so they know what their colleagues actually do. That’s where CrossPitch AI comes in. At a recent CMO Series event in London, Connor Kinnear unpacked the challenges, the opportunities, and how AI can help firms finally make cross-selling happen. In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Connor dives deeper into: The ongoing challenge of cross-selling, and why it remains so important How Passle’s CrossPitch AI helps firms connect the dots What’s behind the impressive engagement results clients are seeing How the new Cross-Selling Intelligence Map makes collaboration visible

Implementing a seamless Content Management System that is able to grow alongside the firm in the long-term should be a top priority within law firms digital strategies. Through extended team collaboration, firms can create a shared vision for suitable future marketing technology, ensuring flexibility and scalability, while also boosting efficiency and SEO. Today on the Passle CMO Series Digital Masterclass Podcast, we’re diving into CMS for the legal sector, a crucial part of a firm’s marketing and business development toolkit. Carrie Dyer, Digital Account Director at Appius, a company with deep experience in the legal market, with clients including Freshfields and Ashurst, joins us to discuss how firms can choose the right CMS. Carrie shares her insights on: Appius’ experience and high reputation within the legal market The critical importance of creating an effective CMS Various main CMS platforms and their different offerings The key factors and processes to consider when selecting a CMS Common pitfalls many firms continue to face Her expert takeaways for implementing a successful CMS

In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within. In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally. With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized. Eugene and Jennifer cover: How the role of Marketing has evolved during her 17 years at Shipman & Goodwin Jen’s approach to building internal trust and influence in a relationship-driven industry The value of having strategic thought partnerships Jen’s partnership achievements including cultural and mindset shifts How to build long-term credibility