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From 11 epsHosts
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#70 - The first 100 days of a new CHRO, with Jodi Slomp from Backbase
Jun 22, 2026
Unknown duration
#69 - When your management team is not a team, with Ton Keunen from TicketSwap
Apr 29, 2026
52m 53s
#68 - The future of office design, with Mattijs Kaak and Floor van der Oord from Ditt Officemakers
Mar 16, 2026
46m 02s
#67 - AI is breaking the job market, with Dirk Jonker from Crunchr
Jan 28, 2026
41m 45s
#66: Feeling unsafe: fact or fiction, with Tica Peeman from VIStrainingen
Dec 17, 2025
44m 53s
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| Date | Episode | Topics | Guests | Brands | Places | Keywords | Sponsor | Length | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 6/22/26 | #70 - The first 100 days of a new CHRO, with Jodi Slomp from Backbase | 🎙️ Episode summary:Stepping into a Chief People Officer role in a fast-paced scale-up demands immediate impact and strategic vision. Jodi Slomp shares her candid journey through the initial 100 days, revealing how she quickly assessed culture, tackled challenges, and aligned her team in a high-growth environment.📖 In this episode:00:00 Welcome and Guest Introduction04:36 First 100 Days Strategy as CHRO08:06 Scaling Insights and Team Onboarding12:58 Recognizing Patterns and System Thinking17:05 Interview Process and Earning Trust21:07 The CHRO Role in the AI Era27:07 Designing Surveys and AI Roadmap33:26 Strategic Focus and Clarity37:50 CHRO’s First 100 Days Impact39:06 Leadership Alignment in 14 Days41:04 Embracing Uncomfortable Changes42:22 Proving Yourself Too Quickly46:12 Preparing for a CHRO Role49:50 Building Support and Community53:32 National to Global Team Transition57:05 Maintaining a Fresh Perspective01:00:28 Capacity for Strategic Thinking01:03:19 Boosting HR Business Acumen💡 Key takeaways:Validate assumptions and learn the business quickly by talking to many people and using surveys.Identify and solve problems from day one to build credibility and deliver quick wins.Cultivate an “architect mindset” to analyze existing systems and rebuild for future needs, especially with AI integration.Prioritize and focus on 2-3 key initiatives to avoid spreading resources too thin and ensure impactful delivery.Foster strong relationships with peers and your team to gain support and maintain a fresh perspective.➡️ About us:People masterminds is a team of scale-up People & Culture leaders who love working with fast-growing companies. We design what scale (or rightsizing) demands. No slide decks, just sharp minds and deep experience. This podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit our website or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com | — | ||||||
| 4/29/26 | #69 - When your management team is not a team, with Ton Keunen from TicketSwap✨ | team dynamicsleadership+4 | Ton Keunen | TicketSwap | — | team cohesionleadership teams+5 | nilohealth.com10% discount | 52m 53s | |
| 3/16/26 | #68 - The future of office design, with Mattijs Kaak and Floor van der Oord from Ditt Officemakers✨ | office designproductivity+3 | Mattijs KaakFloor van der Oord | Ditt OfficemakersPeople & Culture | — | office strategyflexible offices+2 | — | 46m 02s | |
| 1/28/26 | #67 - AI is breaking the job market, with Dirk Jonker from Crunchr✨ | AIjob market+4 | Dirk Jonker | CrunchrPeople & Culture+3 | — | Artificial General Intelligencecognitive work+2 | — | 41m 45s | |
| 12/17/25 | #66: Feeling unsafe: fact or fiction, with Tica Peeman from VIStrainingen✨ | psychological safetyteam dynamics+2 | Tica Peeman | VIStrainingenLinkedIn+3 | — | team foundationfeedback+2 | — | 44m 53s | |
| 11/12/25 | #65 - LIVE: AI, work & collaboration, with Kilian Wawoe✨ | AIwork+6 | Kilian Wawoe | PersonioPeople masterminds+1 | — | AI adoptionhybrid work+3 | — | 1h 10m 40s | |
| 10/13/25 | #64 - International payroll unraveled, with Anita Lettink from HRtechradar✨ | international payrollglobal payroll solutions+3 | Anita Lettink | earned wage accessfinancial education programs+7 | — | payrollHR+3 | — | 45m 10s | |
| 8/27/25 | #63 - Corporate vs. Scale-up HR, with Annelot Fluitman from ING Netherlands✨ | Corporate HRScale-up HR+3 | Annelot Fluitman | ShellUber+5 | — | HR leaderscorporate stability+3 | — | 44m 56s | |
| 6/25/25 | #62 - Executive compensation done right, with Camiel Selker from Optiver✨ | executive compensationscale-ups+7 | Camiel Selker | OptiverIndex Ventures+2 | — | compensation strategiesperformance incentives+4 | — | 43m 57s | |
| 4/28/25 | #61 - Driving AI adoption in your company, with Bas Moeyaert from Loop Earplugs.mp3✨ | AI adoptionorganizational performance+3 | Bas Moeyaert | Loop EarplugsLoop Earplugs.mp3+4 | — | AI strategiesorganizational AI+3 | — | 43m 26s | |
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| 3/31/25 | #60 - Hacking ownership with steward-ownership, with Gijsbert Koren from We Are Stewards.mp3✨ | steward ownershipbusiness model+2 | Gijsbert Koren | PatagoniaTime to Momo+4 | Netherlands | PatagoniaTime to Momo+3 | — | 38m 59s | |
| 2/27/25 | #59 - Scaling without losing soul, with Sandrien Boogaard from GoodHabitz✨ | scalingcompany culture+3 | Sandrien Boogaard | GoodHabitzPeople masterminds Podcast | — | culturestrategy+2 | — | 45m 26s | |
| 1/29/25 | #58 - Leading leaders to lead, with Debora Gallo from Mews | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This episode Deb Gallo is our guest. After working with hypergrowth companies like Wiz and Netflix, she’s now VP Talent Development at Mews, one of the Netherlands’ newest unicorns. We dive into leadership in fast-growing companies and cover: 🌍 Developing leaders in remote environments 💼 Leadership development across different seniority levels 🤖 How AI is changing leadership development 📱 Competing with Instagram & TikTok for training 💡 Why Return on Expectation is the new ROI… If you’re a scale-up leader or People expert, this is a must-listen! 🔥 Read The Mews Constitution here. | — | ||||||
| 12/22/24 | #57 - L&D on a budget, with Nadia Vatalidis from Camunda | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. We couldn’t have asked for a better guest than Nadia Vatalidis to close out the year. She brought her sharp insights to discuss a very relevant topic: Learning & Development on a tight budget. We talked about: 🎯 Aligning L&D with your business strategy 💡 Why personal learning budgets are often underused 🎥 Microlearning: the TikTok effect and why bite-sized content is the future of learning 👥 The undervalued power of shadowing 🚪 How to ensure people actually show up for a training and much more. Curious to hear Nadia’s take on all of this? Don’t miss this episode. It’s the perfect end to a year full of bold conversations and actionable advice. A big thank you to our amazing new podcast sponsor Ashby. Exactly what an ATS should be. | — | ||||||
| 11/25/24 | #56 - The Talent Acquisition revolution, with Benjamin Encz and Willem Wijnans from Ashby | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This episode is all about Talent Acquisition. How is automation reshaping the way we hire? In our latest episode, we explore this with Benjamin Encz and Willem Wijnans from Ashby. Tune in to discover: 🤖 How automation and AI are revolutionizing Talent Acquisition 📊 Aligning hiring with revenue growth, beyond headcount increases ⚖️ Balancing automation and the irreplaceable human touch 🧩 The ideal Talent Acquisition operating model for the future 🤓 What RecOps is and why you need to know this 💩 Why cv's tell you sh#t | — | ||||||
| 9/30/24 | #55 - Job title inflation, with JooBee Yeow from Learngility | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This podcast episode we discuss a hot topic in many start-ups and scale-ups: job titles. What to do with them and what not to do? JooBee Yeow shares her valuable lessons. “Cash is king, equity is sacred, and job titles are free (or aren’t they…)?” Tune in to learn: 👕 Why job titles are like buying clothes for kids ⏳ The risk of handing out big titles too early 2️⃣ Two ways to structure job titles in your company 💡The ideal team size before adding another management layer (and title) 🤓 And much more Subscribe here to receive JooBee's insightful newsletter. | — | ||||||
| 8/26/24 | #54 - Laying the HR foundation for growth, with Lindsay Ross from Bitpanda | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This episode, we had a blast chatting with the awesome Lindsay Ross from Bitpanda. We covered everything from building a strong HR foundation for growth to some fun side topics like: ✨ Black outfits and Eveliese’s tan ✨ The first challenges Lindsay had to tackele during Bitpanda’s hypergrowth ✨ Should you set up payroll with a global provider or not? ✨ What’s the ideal People team ratio? ✨ How HR focus shifts from hypergrowth to restructuring to becoming a true business function ✨ Treating HR as a product ➡️ And so much more… You don’t want to miss this one! Links to specifics we discussed: Blog Bitpanda's Growth Week Book Jessica Zwaan - Built for People Luke O'Mahoney Podcast Truth Works | — | ||||||
| 6/26/24 | #53 - Decoding executive hiring, with Ze'ev Rozov, COO at HiBob | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. Moms of young kids are your best hires! 🚀 That’s what Ze’ev Rozov, COO at Hibob, told us in this People masterminds podcast episode, where we unravel executive hiring. With his extensive experience in recruiting top-tier executives, we talked about: 🔍 Why past success won’t make you successful in your next job, especially in GTM roles. 📈 Outsource or handle executive hiring internally? 🤔 Is unanimity essential in the decision to hire an executive? 🧩 How to hire for executive roles outside your area of expertise. ⚠️ Whether hiring corporate executives is a recipe for disaster. Give it a listen on your favorite podcast app! | — | ||||||
| 5/30/24 | #52 - Level up with a Reward philosophy, with Jodi Slomp (VP People at Mollie) and Lucas Sondelski (Director Reward at Personio) | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. Want to level up your Compensation & Benefits strategy? A salary benchmark won’t do the trick. If you want to distinguish yourself as an employer, start with a strong reward philosophy. What do you want to reward in your company and why? 🤔 How would you like to pay compared to the market? 📊 What would you like to offer? 🎁 And yes, a benchmark (Ravio for the win! 🏆) is a pretty helpful tool for that, ánd you need your own vision too. In the newest People masterminds podcast episode, we talk about this with Jodi Slomp, VP of People at Mollie, and Lucas Sondelski, Director of Reward at Personio. Tune in to learn more about: The key elements of a strong reward philosophy 💡 The connection between company culture and the way you reward 🏢❤️ The difference between fair pay and equal pay ⚖️ Why compensation is not logical, but psychological 🧠 And much more 🚀 | — | ||||||
| 4/29/24 | #51: Co-CEOs: doubling success or double trouble, with Maarten Bodewes and Dimitri O from Loop Earplugs | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with start-ups and scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. Ever heard of co-CEO-ship? Is it double the success or double trouble? Get the lowdown in this episode, where we chat about it with Maarten Bodewes and Dimitri O from one of Belgium’s leading scale-ups at the moment, Loop Earplugs. We dive into: ✔️ Is one of them secretly the boss? ✔️ How do you divide responsibilities? ✔️ Surprising perks and hurdles of co-CEO-ship ✔️ How they set strategy during strategy week with the team ✔️ 1-way and 2-way door decisions ✔️ Plus, loads more. | — | ||||||
| 2/19/24 | # 49 - Soft or Savvy? Wellbeing among young professionals, with Gijs Coppens, CEO & Founder OpenUp | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services and products? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. Is presenteeism the new absenteeism among young professionals? And why is building a concentration muscle so essential? This is what we discussed in the latest episode of the People masterminds Podcast, together with Gijs Coppens, CEO and Founder of OpenUp. We delve deep into the topic of young professionals' wellbeing, and talked about: 🧐 Wellbeing differences between generations (or not) 🚀 The difference between good and great performance 🥺 The main wellbeing concerns in 2024 🧘♀️ How a genuine mission impacts wellbeing 🍎 Gijs’ his own wellbeing ➡️ and much more… Don't miss out on this insightful conversation! Tune in now to gain valuable insights and strategies for fostering a healthier, more resilient team and organization. | — | ||||||
| 1/15/24 | #48 - AI's triumphs and traps for HR, with Cynthia Liem | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services and products? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This time we're talking AI. In a world flooded with messages singing praises for AI, let's take a moment to appreciate the nuances 😌. Cynthia Liem, Associate Professor at TU Delft and researcher focusing on trustworthy and responsible Artificial Intelligence, adds a delightful layer to the conversation. This podcast episode is a must-listen for those curious about how AI impacts your business, the role HR plays, whether measuring everyone and everything is truly worthwhile, and simply about how you could use AI best in your daily work. Listen to the full podcast episode (already the 6th season!) to find out! | — | ||||||
| 11/29/23 | #47 - Building culture in the hybrid era, with Kilian Wawoe | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services and products? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. This time, we're diving deep into "Building culture in the hybrid era." Together with our guest, Kilian Wawoe, we tackle burning topics like: 📉 Does hybrid working really lead to decreased productivity, or is it just a myth? 🌐 The needed shift from focusing on individual employees to championing the collective. 💪 The emergence of weak leaders in the hybrid landscape. Kilian shares insights on maintaining a healthy culture in the hybrid work environment. Don't miss out on this wisdom! | — | ||||||
| 11/29/23 | #46 - Mastering M&As as an HR leader, with Ness Sbai from NS People | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services and products? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. In this podcast episode we discuss the role of a People leader in an M&A, with Ness Sbai, VP People and a renowned expert in M&A's. With her wealth of knowledge, we delved deep into the role of the HR leader during mergers and acquisitions. We discuss: ✨ The important role HR can play in the M&A universe. ✨ Essential actions for People leaders throughout the deal stage and post-deal integration. ✨ Unveiling the potential deal breakers from a People lens. ✨ Proactive approaches to ensure your key talents remain committed during and after the transition. M&As are more than financial mergers; they're about merging cultures, values, and people. Learn from the best in the business about how to do it right! | — | ||||||
| 8/30/23 | #45 - Doing layoffs right, with Merlyn Bijnsdorp from Dott | Growth got you feeling like a hot mess? Scaling up can be a doozy, but don't worry, we've got your back. The People Masterminds podcast is here to relieve your scaling stress and bring you People & Culture inspiration that you can actually use. Get moved and shaken by Kristel and Eveliese who, based on their daily experiences with scale-ups, know exactly the growing pains you have to go through to reach your goals. Forget cookie-cutter advice, we bring you the goods - real insights, killer tips, practical cases, and amazingly interesting guests who will blow your mind. Listen in and get ready to level up with the People masterminds podcast. The People masterminds podcast is our way of sharing knowledge and experience for free. Want to know more about our other services and products? Visit www.peoplemasterminds.com or contact us at info@peoplemasterminds.com. Want to receive our regular ‘Brain Bites’? Go to www.peoplemasterminds.com/brainbites and subscribe. Join us for an insightful conversation with Merlyn Bijnsdorp, the VP People at Dott, as we dive deep into the art of executing successful reorgs in scale-ups. From effective communication strategies to streamlined processes, Merlyn shares valuable tips, lessons learned, and the crucial role that people leaders play during these transitions. Learn how to navigate support for those affected by changes and how to keep the team engaged. Tune in to master the reorg game! | — | ||||||
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