The Coach's Journey - build a coaching business with integrity

Throughout a career spanning roles as a teacher, BBC television producer, coach and prolific author, Jenny Rogers has never been afraid of getting things wrong.In this episode of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, the executive coach, supervisor, trainer and author of coaching titles such as Are You Listening? tells host Neil Mackinnon about the vital importance of experimentation and of embracing our mistakes in order to benefit from a lifetime of learning experiences that make us better coaches and ground us in our humanity.Jenny flies the flag for a whole-life perspective in coaching, eschewing narrow approaches in favour of a style that acknowledges the way our personal and working lives are inextricably intertwined, and makes room for all the parts of us.A deep interest in psychotherapy has enriched Jenny’s coaching practice and she highlights the modalities that fascinate her the most, as well as the key therapeutic ideas and techniques that are readily transferrable to any coaching practice.Jenny also discusses her latest books, which address important questions about navigating boundaries as a new coach and working through the challenges many women face in midlife.This episode is full of sage advice drawn from a wonderfully diverse, rich career in coaching and creativity, shared by a practitioner whose dauntless spirit of curiosity and passion for understanding human relationships is as infectious as it is inspiring.Jenny and Neil also talk about:-      The relationship between trauma-aware coaching and psychodynamic therapy-      Nurturing a healthy writing practice and overcoming creative blocks-      How we accumulate rigid ways of thinking, and why it is hard to make change on your own-     The art of embodying a place of non-judgement, and offering challenge with compassionTHINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:- Jenny Rogers https://www.jennyrogers.com- BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk- Delia Smith https://www.deliaonline.com- Madhur Jaffrey https://www.madhurjaffrey.com- BBC Two https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo- BBC Books https://www.penguin.co.uk/company/publishers/bbc-books- Columbia University https://www.columbia.edu- Management Futures https://www.managementfutures.co.uk- Are You Listening (book) https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1115931/are-you-listening/9780241973986.html- Julia Vaughan-Smith https://www.juliavaughansmith.com- Nscience https://nscience.uk- Franz Ruppert https://www.franz-ruppert.de/en/- Irvin Yalom https://www.yalom.com- The Gift of Therapy (book) https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-gift-of-therapy-irvin-d-yalom- Carl Rogers https://www.britannica.com/biography/Carl-Rogers- Gabor Mate https://www.upaya.org/person/dr-gabor-mate- University College Hospital London https://www.uclh.nhs.uk- Guildhall School of Music & Drama https://www.gsmd.ac.uk- How Not to Be a Doctor, by John Launer https://www.duckworthbooks.co.uk/book/how-not-to-be-a-doctor/- Barbican Centre https://www.barbican.org.uk- City of London Corporation https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk- EMCC Global https://www.emccglobal.org- ILM https://www.institutelm.com- Coaches Training Institute (Co-Active) https://coactive.comBIOGRAPHY FROM JENNYI am an executive coach, coach trainer and supervisor, and accreditation assessor for APECS, the premier coaching accreditation body of the UK. Along with these roles, I am a writer, textile artist, cook, grandmother and keen walker. Thirty five years ago, I was an early entrant to the world of coaching, after earlier careers in teaching, television production and publishing. Typically, my clients are facing a major transition in their lives and find that a coaching perspective is the key to finding solutions that work. As a coach I work with senior clients in the law, medicine, finance, healthcare, performing arts and media along with volunteer roles for severely disadvantaged women. I consider myself to be a leader in a new approach to coaching which combines insights from psychotherapy with the pragmatic emphasis on change that distinguishes the best coaching traditions.I was honoured to win the Henley Business School Award for Outstanding Contribution to Coaching in 2019. My books include Are You Listening? a book of coaching stories published by Penguin Random House in 2021. I have written 9 other books on coaching, including Coaching Skills: the definitive guide to being a coach. A fifth edition, much updated, was published in 2024. My latest book, Fearless Coaching, will be published in 2026 and a book for women in mid-life (title TBD) in early 2027 by Octopus Books.

When Mel Sims discovered coaching, she was adamant that nobody could understand her life. Her journey into coaching allowed her to put down the mask, harness her strengths, and re-emerge into the world as a neurodivergent emotional coach.Mel trained as a coach while learning about herself through the lens of an ADHD diagnosis. As well as offering her a pathway of personal growth, these experiences helped Mel find her niche through the realisation that neurodivergent people need a particular coaching approach.In this episode of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, Mel speaks to host Joey Owen about different styles of emotional communication, and the many ways in which people can be misunderstood. She talks about how being an “unpolished” coach enables her to offer a space where people can let go of their need hide their feelings and be guided by an authentic intuition.Mel offers several brilliant metaphors and visualisation techniques that illuminate this episode, such as the idea of wearing a colander on your head as a way to filter information, and thinking of neurodivergent minds as stars that have become more visible in our world of modern telescopes and greater understanding.The challenges of time management, rest and staying grounded are explored in this episode as Mel describes how she tailors coaching to people who might need alternative approaches to scheduling, flexibility, communication and depth.Mel and Joey also talk about:The intuitive, bordering-on-magical connection that neurodivergent people share having navigated shared challengesHow to make space for emotional outpourings that can have a transformative impact in coaching sessionsA psychological technique that enables a kinder, more compassionate approach to self-coachingHow to own your weak spots and set healthy expectationsMel also explains why she starts some of her inspirational coaching talks wearing a snorkel, a diving mask and a pair of flippers!For more information about Mel, visit: https://melsimslifecoach.co.uk or @theadhdhummingbird on Facebook and InstagramFor more information about host Joey Owen, visit http://www.joeyowencoaching.com/ Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.comMusic by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community. THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:- Robbie Swale’s 12-Minute Method books https://www.robbieswale.com/the-12minute-books - Ruth Kudzi https://www.ruthkudzi.com/- ICF https://coachingfederation.org/- John Demartini https://drdemartini.com/- Calendly https://calendly.com/- Meta Business Suite https://www.facebook.com/business/tools/meta-business-suite- Inside Our Minds with Chris Packham https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0bbnh47- Eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing (EMDR) https://emdrassociation.org.uk/- Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD) https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-and-adhd/- Transactional Analysis https://www.simplypsychology.org/transactional-analysis-eric-berne.html- Episode #116 of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, on the importance of having your own coach https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/116-why-hiring-a-coach-is-the-most-important-investment-youll-make-in-your-coaching-business- Patience https://www.channel4.com/programmes/patience LINKS FROM MEL:- My favourite ‘emotions in individuals’ viewing https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0b8kmch/couples-therapy - Shame and ADHD https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002c6bb - Being different and anxious as an Autistic person - https://www.channel4.com/programmes/are-you-autistic Free additional training for coaches with Positive Intelligence (do the test first to see what your Sabateurs are) https://www.positiveintelligence.com/saboteurs/ - Discovering your values quiz (I realised my ad agency days and working with under 5’s was all about loving helping people) https://drdemartini.com/pl/play?url=%2Fwhat-are-values%2F - Great book on RSD (hating people being cross with you) https://atlantic-books.co.uk/book/the-courage-to-be-disliked/ - And another one written by a brilliant ADHD podcast host https://www.sheldonpress.co.uk/titles/alex-partridge/why-does-everybody-hate-me/9781399827843/‍ ‍

Shruti Sonthalia says purpose is her superpower. A strong sense of purpose helped Shruti to demolish seemingly insurmountable barriers to becoming a Master Certified Coach and a globally renowned industry figure, and in this episode of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, she implores all coaches to find their ‘why’.Shruti began her journey without coaches around her to learn from, living and working in a culture that assumed expertise was the preserve of men with white hair. Believing it was her purpose to create sacred spaces in the workplace, Shruti grafted with steadfast resolve to defy the gatekeepers and doubters who stood in her way.By taking the path less travelled and proving herself time and again, Shruti developed a work ethic that took her to the top of her profession, empowering leaders across global markets to embody a coaching mindset.She pays forward her expertise in the training curricula she devises and delivers to the next generation of coaches, founding her structured, evidence-based approach on the values and principles she speaks about in this episode.In this conversation, Shruti invites us all to ask: which parts of our journeys do we struggle to own? And how might addressing them enable changes within us that ripple out to the ecosystems we operate within?Shruti and host Neil Mackinnon also talk about:- Whether coaching has the same effectiveness in different areas, geographies, and realities- Accessibility of supervision as a vital aspect of coaching’s growth and integrity- The learning we can take from our own procrastination- How a coaching mindset can help us embody shared power- The principle that says that which you focus on expands, and how to harness itTHINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:- AoEC - Academy of Executive Coaching https://www.aoec.com/ - ICF - International Coaching Federation https://coachingfederation.org/ - ICF Foundation https://foundationoficf.org/ - Shruti's paper on effectiveness of coaching in emerging markets https://radar.brookes.ac.uk/radar/file/08d2850c-51fe-42ab-aeea-e7ec829bc5a9/1/IJEBCM%2022_1_10.pdf - London School of Economics https://www.lse.ac.uk/ - Yannick Jacob on The Coach's Journey Podcast https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/97-yannick-jacob-going-beyond-blueprints-to-challenge-the-status-quo-of-coaching - Richard Layard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Layard,_Baron_Layard - Viktor Frankl, Man’s Search for Meaning https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069.Man_s_Search_for_Meaning - Martin Seligman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Seligman - David Foster Wallace, This Is Water https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ - Theory U by Otto Sharma https://www.amazon.co.uk/Theory-Learning-Emerges-Futures-Business/dp/1576757633 - Robbie Swale’s writing on resistance https://www.robbieswale.com/the-12-minute-blog/2025/3/28/the-more-resistance-we-feel-towards-a-call-or-action-the-more-important-that-call-or-action-is-to-our-souls-evolution - The War of Art by Steven Pressfield https://www.amazon.co.uk/War-Art-Through-Creative-Battles/dp/1936891026 - IFS, parts work, what’s in the way is the way https://matthewharwood.uk/ifs/ - RUHCO https://ruhco.org/

In this episode, Robbie walks you step‑by‑step through how he leads the first conversation with a potential coaching client - with authenticity, honour and integrity, and without being salesy or pushy. Packed with clear guidance and real‑world examples, you'll learn how to:Prepare clients in advance and set expectations before the callModel leadership in the first conversation to build credibility and trustGuide the conversation through contracting, coaching, and honestyLead naturally toward a decision: no pressure, just clarity about what comes nextIf you’re tired of ‘discovery calls’ or ‘coffees’ that feel awkward or wind down without clarity… this episode is for you.Download Robbie’s ebook, An Introduction to The Coaching Business Flywheel, here.Buy The Coaching Business Flywheel Booster Pack - including all the emails Robbie sends to his clients at every stage of his business, plus a flowchart, coaching agreements and his favourite emails for creating clients. For more information about Robbie, visit https://www.robbieswale.com/Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.com.Music by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community. THINGS ROBBIE MENTIONED THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED INThe Coaching Business Flywheel: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel The Coaching Business Flywheel Booster Pack: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel-booster-pack The video version of this episode: https://youtu.be/ub_gFNZ8bsY Episode #8, containing this and lots more nuts and bolts of coaching: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/robbie-on-structure-first-conversations-marketing-price My video about contracting as a coach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhjuhKWx9iA Phil Bolton on The Coach’s Journey Podcast: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-2-phil-bolton-from-forensic-accountant-to-the-go-to-career-coach-in-london-and-on-to-work-with-ceos-mds-and-founders Rich Litvin: How To Coach Someone You Don't Yet Know - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1mBCDWOX-I Jamie Smart on The Coach’s Journey Podcast: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-16-jamie-smart Giovanna Capozza on The Coach’s Journey Podcast: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-20-giovanna-capozza Rich Litvin: The Art of the Proposal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjwzfLIA8w0

What if the way you sell your coaching is getting in the way of the coaching itself?In this solo episode, Robbie shares how his thinking and practice around selling coaching packages has evolved — from charging by the session, to selling time-bound coaching engagements that prioritise impact, flexibility and real transformation.This candid, behind-the-scenes reflection covers everything from awkward money conversations to powerful client breakthroughs — and invites coaches to rethink how they price and package their work. Drawing from his own business journey, the coaching he’s received, and the coaches he's supported, Robbie lays out a compelling case for selling periods of time, not sessions.Whether you’re new to coaching or looking to grow a more sustainable, generous practice, this episode will help you:Reflect on how your current engagements are serving you — and your clientsExplore how time-based engagements can build trust, accountability and transformationSet ambitious goals with clients in ways that feel natural and expansiveAvoid the session-counting mindset that can limit both coach and clientSee how changing the way you package your coaching can change the value clients see in it. Embrace the idea of being a companion on your client’s journey — not just a service providerWith honesty and nuance, Robbie invites you to experiment with what works for you — and to create coaching offers that feel both nourishing and powerful.Download Robbie’s ebook, An Introduction to The Coaching Business Flywheel, here.For more information about Robbie, visit https://www.robbieswale.com/Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.com.Music by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community.THINGS ROBBIE MENTIONED THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED INThe video version of this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzeyK2yvWOI Episode #8, containing this and lots more nuts and bolts of coaching: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/robbie-on-structure-first-conversations-marketing-price Joel Monk on The Coach’s Journey Podcast: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-6-joel-monk-conversations-at-the-cutting-edge-of-coaching

How do we keep working when tragedy shakes our lives? If seismic events disrupt our foundations, is it possible to build something new with confidence?For Ellie Scarf, suffering a heartbreaking loss led to profound changes that have moved her from her zone of excellence into her zone of genius, where she draws upon her experiences to offer her coaching clients an approach and a service that is uniquely her own.In this episode of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, Ellie recounts the steps that took her from working as a lawyer in top tier legal firms to becoming a national sales coach for a billion dollar company. She describes how her coaching work was in the midst of a booming resurgence after the COVID-19 pandemic when tragedy struck.In conversation with host Ruth Saville, Ellie explains how she integrated her profound emotional experiences into a new way of working, turning her pain into a point of connection that deepened her client relationships.Now, alongside the client work that brings her joy every day, she also runs the Corporate To Coach Accelerator, building foundations for people on the runway to launching a business, and supporting coaches who are pivoting to leverage their skills in new ways. She is also CEO of Lucent Global coaching consultancy, which supports leaders and companies through significant periods of transition.She also has her own podcast, The Business of Executive Coaching Podcast, where she is just as inspiring a host as she is a guest in this episode.In this episode, Ellie and Ruth also talk about:·      A brilliant strategy to solve the problem of building business development into your schedule·      How to meet your clients where they’re at on their particular developmental journey·      What happens when non-directive coaching comes into conflict with a knowledge gap·      How many coaching programmes selling quick pathways to success prey on people’s fearsEllie also shares one crucial tip for anyone coach who is struggling to bring in business at the moment, offering a tried and tested way to make progress during lean times.Things and people we mentioned (that you might be interested in):- Tony Grant https://www.sydney.edu.au/science/news-and-events/news/2020/02/07/vale-professor-anthony-grant.html- Dr. Suzy Green https://instituteofcoaching.org/suzy-green- Masters course in Coaching Psychology at the University of Sydney https://www.sydney.edu.au/handbooks/science-pg/coursework/psychology-coaching.html#:~:text=The%20Master%20of%20Science%20in,working%20with%20non%2Dclinical%20populations.- The Positivity Institute https://thepositivityinstitute.com.au/- The Positivity Prescription https://thepositivityinstitute.com.au/product/the-positivity-prescription/- Dr. Susanne Cook-Greuter https://instituteofcoaching.org/author/cook-greuter-susanne- Robert Kegan’s theory of adult development https://aliveandthriving.substack.com/p/kegans-theory-of-development-framework- Bill Torbert’s development theory https://developingleadership.net/bill-torbert- The GROW model https://www.performanceconsultants.com/resources/the-grow-model- The House of Change model https://www.thevirtualtrainingteam.com/articles/change-management-models-the-change-house/- Dr. Louise Kovacs https://au.linkedin.com/in/louise-kovacs-9ba55a- Myers Briggs overview https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/myers-briggs-overview/- Dr. Saba Hasanie https://www.linkedin.com/in/saba-hasanie-dprof-mcc-icf-1747572?originalSubdomain=sg- The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-big-leap-gay-hendricks?variant=32205677625378- Lucent Global https://www.lucentorg.com/about- Corporate to Coach Accelerator https://www.elliescarf.com/cca- The Coaching Business Flywheel https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel- Ellie’s podcast episode on metrics for coaches https://www.elliescarf.com/podcasts/the-business-of-executive-coaching/episodes/2148566834- Tim Ferriss’ billboard question https://medium.com/@podclips/the-top-25-answers-to-tim-ferriss-famous-billboard-question-3f19fba1a49c- The upper limit problem https://melodywilding.com/are-you-unconsciously-afraid-of-being-happy-why-we-self-sabotage-with-the-upper-limit-problem/

To celebrate the 100th episode of The Coach’s Journey Podcast, Robbie takes us back to where the whole Coach’s Journey adventure began: the story of how he grew his coaching business so it could support him full time, less than two years after he started training as a coach.As you’ll hear him say in the introduction, coming back to this story - which forms the basis of Robbie’s most-read piece of writing about coaching - reminded him how, when it comes to the fundamentals, little has changed in how he thinks about and works on his business.Indeed, much of what you’ll hear Robbie talk about in this episode maps onto The Coaching Business Flywheel, brought to life through the eyes of a new coach, fresh from experiencing the successes, failures, glory and mistakes of the first two years of his business.In particular, Robbie gets into:The principles of invitation and referral as a way to build a coaching business.How to find shortcuts to the client critical mass.Why you MUST keep coaching.How if you aren’t making space for your business to grow, you may not be serious about coaching.We hope you take as much inspiration from this story as thousands of coaches have over the years.And thanks for being with us on this amazing journey - we hope you’ll be with us for the next 100 episodes!For the transcript of the episode and loads of links, visit: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/writing/how-i-became-a-full-time-coach-less-than-two-years-after-starting-my-trainingIf you like this episode, you’ll love Robbie’s ebook, An Introduction toThe Coaching Business Flywheel,visit https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheelFor more information about Robbie, visit https://www.robbieswale.com/Read more about The Coach's Journey at www.thecoachsjourney.com.Music by My Good Man William: listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/4KmeQUcTbeE31uFynHQLQgTo support the Coach's Journey, visit www.patreon.com/thecoachsjourney and to join the Coach's Journey Community visit www.thecoachsjourney.com/community.THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN:The first episode in our series giving an overview of The Coaching Business Flywheel: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/75-how-to-grow-your-coaching-business-coaching-business-fundamentals The second episode in the series, focusing on Connecting with People: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/77-how-to-make-connections-who-become-clients-coaching-business-fundamentals The third, focusing on offering people the opportunity to experience you more, is here: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/80-dont-wait-for-coaching-clients-create-them-coaching-business-fundamentals The fourth, focusing on creating insight for people, is here: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/82-want-more-clients-create-more-insight-coaching-business-fundamentals The fifth, focusing on talking about how you work and how much it costs, is here: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/83-if-you-want-to-make-more-money-talk-about-money-more-coaching-business-fundamentals The sixth, focusing on working with clients and generating referrals, is here: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/85-get-more-referrals-for-your-coaching-business-coaching-business-fundamentals A diagram of The Coaching Business Flywheel: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel Katie Harvey on The Coach’s Journey: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-1-katie-harvey-14000-hours-of-coaching-being-part-of-the-uk-coaching-vanguard-and-being-a-generalist-coach Phil Bolton on The Coach’s Journey: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-2-phil-bolton-from-forensic-accountant-to-the-go-to-career-coach-in-london-and-on-to-work-with-ceos-mds-and-founders Joel Monk on the Coach’s Journey: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-6-joel-monk-conversations-at-the-cutting-edge-of-coaching Mike Toller on The Coach’s Journey: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-32-mike-toller Catriona Horey on The Coach’s Journey: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/episode-4-catriona-horey-too-far-away-from-the-joy How to choose a coaching training programme: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/podcast/89-how-to-choose-a-coaching-training-programme- The Coach’s Journey Community: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/community The Coaching Business Flywheel Booster Pack: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/the-coaching-business-flywheel-booster-pack The full transcript of the episode, including lots more links: https://www.thecoachsjourney.com/writing/how-i-became-a-full-time-coach-less-than-two-years-after-starting-my-training