The Long Game with Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer

President Trump has struck a diesel deal with Russia as fuel prices squeeze Americans. But what does easing restrictions on Russian exports mean for Ukraine and for efforts to end the war? Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer examine the deal’s potential economic impact, the growing tension between Washington and Kyiv, and the prospects for an energy ceasefire as winter approaches. Then, renewed fighting between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis raises difficult questions about American commitments in the Middle East. With Saudi airports and energy infrastructure under attack, could the United States or Israel enter the fight? What could either accomplish? Finally, an Options Memo for NATO’s Secretary General: How should the alliance respond if Russian sabotage kills civilians in a member country? Jake and Jon weigh “light,” “medium,” and “heavy” responses, exploring the challenge of restoring deterrence without triggering a wider war. Listen for the hard choices behind the headlines and the risks each carries. Access to video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. References and supplemental materials Gen. Alexus G. Grynkewich, Supreme Allied Commander Europe, NATO,  Theory of Victory: How Do We Achieve Military Success Against Russia in Deterrence and Defence?, Warsaw Security Forum, October 12, 2026. Feras Dalatey, “Amazon's AWS is unable to restore access to Bahrain, one UAE cloud data zone after war damage,” Reuters, September 15, 2026  Photo credit: Mohammed HUWAIS / AFP via Getty Images Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and staff writer at The Atlantic, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to discuss how far-right ideology and private profit have become intertwined in the Trump administration’s approach to the world; the subject of her new cover story for The Atlantic.  They also examine the opaque U.S. oil arrangements in Venezuela, the campaign for political influence in Greenland, and the difficult work of rebuilding American institutions and alliances after Trump. For paid subscribers, Jake and Jon continue their conversation with Anne Applebaum. She details what changes to the White House and the Kennedy Center reveal about political power and culture in Washington.Subscribe to Long Game + on Apple or Substack for access and to support the show.  Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit: Viktor Kovalchuk/Global Images Ukraine via Getty Images. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Julia Curlee, a former CIA analyst and acting senior director at the National Security Council, joins Jake Sullivan and Jon Finer to explain why she believes America’s intelligence system is being weakened from within. Curlee also discusses her experience briefing Vice President Mike Pence and why she left government after nearly 20 years. After the interview, Then to argue for and against reaching a deal with the U.S. and continuing  Beijing’s open-weight strategy. Access video versions of exclusive podcast segments, transcripts, and more on Substack: https://thelonggame.substack.com/ Watch the video version of this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@podlonggame Email Jake and Jon at [email protected]. Follow The Long Game so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop weekly. The Long Game is produced by the Vox Media Podcast Network. Photo Credit : Julia Curlee  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices