
How curiosity didn't kill the cat w/ Amanda Groves
From We're Not Marketers by Gabriel Bujold, Eric Holland, Zach Roberts
November 20, 2025 · 47 min · Season 5 · Episode 4
About this episode
Amanda Groves discusses the non-conformist nature of product marketers and shares insights on career progression and leadership.
Product marketers aren't marketers—they're non-conformist rebels! Amanda Groves, VP of PMM at Enable, who rocketed from IC to VP in just 2 years explains why. She breaks down why PMMs need to be trolls under bridges, why slowing down actually speeds you up, and how painting and ultra marathons make her a better leader. We dive into the PMM-to-CMO pipeline, fighting AI Mad Libs, and why the best product marketers challenge everything with intention. Warning: This episode might make you quit conforming and start rebelling. What to gather in this convo: • How to go from IC to VP of PMM in just 2 years (hint: be a rebel) • Why product marketers should be "trolls under bridges" • The slow-down-to-speed-up philosophy that's breaking Silicon Valley • What ultra marathons teach you about product marketing leadership • Why painting on the side makes you a better PMM leader • The "controllables vs. uncontrollables" framework that saves careers • How to fight the AI Mad Lib epidemic in your messaging • Why more PMMs should be gunning for CMO (and how to get there) • The non-conformist hiring strategy that builds killer teams • What PMM leaders are fighting for that ICs never see • The…
People in this episode
Hosts: Gabriel Bujold, Eric Holland, Zach Roberts
Guest: Amanda Groves
Topics covered
- product marketing
- leadership
- non-conformity
- career progression
- AI in marketing
- personal development
Keywords
- product marketers
- VP of PMM
- trolls under bridges
- slow down to speed up
- ultra marathons
- AI Mad Libs
- CMO pipeline
- non-conformist hiring
Mentioned in this episode
Organizations: Enable
More episodes of We're Not Marketers
- How a Guy Who Graded Film Got Tricked Into Product Marketing w/ Jason Druss · May 14, 2026 · 50 min
- AI is killing your marketing (one way to fix) · May 7, 2026 · 42 min
- Allergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier · April 23, 2026 · 37 min
- “I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim) · January 29, 2026 · 43 min
- The Anti-ICP Strategy: How To Use Your Website to Fire Bad Prospects w/ BX Studio · January 15, 2026 · 48 min
- Strategy over fluffy jargon w/ Crystal Crouch · January 8, 2026 · 47 min
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