Discourse in Magic

In this episode, Jonah Babins is joined by corporate magic legend Bill Herz to unpack a career that spans summer camps, corporate boardrooms, and headline features in The Wall Street Journal. From his early days performing with Paul Cummins to founding Magicorp and representing world-class talent, Bill shares the highs, the hustle, and the hilarious behind-the-scenes of building a career in corporate magic. You’ll learn what makes a magician bookable, how to navigate pricing, and why a magician’s greatest asset might be understanding the client better than they understand themselves. How Bill Got Started in Magic Like many magicians, Bill’s journey began with a magic set at eight years old. But what set him apart was a unique blend of showmanship, business sense, and a willingness to perform for anyone, anywhere—from birthday parties to summer camps and community centers. The Creation of Magicorp What started with teaching a CEO one simple trick became a revolutionary corporate entertainment concept. Bill realized the power of using magic as a tool in business communication, eventually founding Magicorp to help executives shine and manage bookings for the best in the industry. What Makes a Magician Corporate-Ready Bill breaks down what he looks for in the performers he books—hint: it’s more than a good show. From being able to describe what makes you different in one sentence, to being professional, personable, and ego-free, he outlines the traits that help magicians thrive in the corporate world. Understanding Your Value and Pricing Pricing is more than picking a number—it’s about asking the right questions and understanding what the client needs. Bill shares how he approaches pricing based on value, logistics, and market perception, and why being flexible (but smart) is essential to getting booked and respected. Social Media, Managers, and Magician Mistakes Bill doesn’t hold back when talking about magicians on social media and their obsession with “busy bragging.” He also dives into why having a manager or being repped by a big agency can sometimes hurt more than help—and how magicians can avoid sabotaging their own careers. Endless Chain At the end of the episode, Bill recommends magician Derek Hughes as a future guest. A brilliant performer and a friend of Bill’s, Derek brings a unique blend of comedy and magic that works exceptionally well in the corporate space. Mentions Bill Herz’s Website Magicorp – Corporate Magic Booking Agency David Copperfield Mac King Ben Seidman Colin Cloud  

This week on Discourse in Magic, we’re bringing you a special repost of Jonah Babins’ appearance on the Penguin Magic Podcast, hosted by Erik Tait. Jonah, the long-time host of Discourse in Magic, takes the guest seat and shares insights on the world of magic, business, and podcasting. How Jonah Built Discourse in Magic Jonah shares the journey of how Discourse in Magic has grown over the years. He discusses the evolution of the show, the challenges of maintaining a podcast in the magic space, and what has kept him going for nearly a decade. Jonah explains his strategy for selecting guests, emphasizing the importance of personal interest. He shares how being genuinely curious about a guest’s work leads to more engaging and meaningful conversations. The Evolution of His Magic Career Jonah reflects on how his interests have changed over time. While Discourse in Magic initially focused on deep philosophical discussions, his passion has shifted toward the practical aspects of magic, especially business growth and performance. Jonah shares insights into his Mastermind program, where he helps magicians grow their businesses. He talks about the structure of the program, its benefits, and the transformative results that many of his students have experienced. The Three Key Pillars of a Successful Magic Business Jonah breaks down the fundamental elements necessary to build a thriving magic business. He details how generating leads, improving sales techniques, and optimizing business systems can help magicians increase their income and efficiency. Jonah emphasizes the power of having a supportive network. He explains how magicians in his Mastermind program benefit from shared knowledge, accountability, and expert guidance to help them achieve their business goals. Mentions Jonah’s Magic Business Coaching Discourse in Magic Instagram Vote for Jonah in the FM Magic Podcast Awards Enjoy the episode and don’t forget to subscribe for more deep dives into the art and business of magic!

In this episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins sits down with Jonathan Levit to discuss his multifaceted career in the entertainment industry, from acting and hosting to creating innovative magic tricks and apps. Jonathan shares his journey, insights, and the magic behind his successful projects, including his Vegas show and The Stranger app. Early Magic Journey Jonathan discusses how he discovered magic through his father’s props and the magical community in St. Louis that shaped his early years. He reflects on the importance of mentorship and friendships in his development as a magician. Acting and Hosting Career Jonathan talks about his transition to acting and hosting in Los Angeles, sharing the challenges and rewards of working in front of the camera. He emphasizes the skills he gained from acting and hosting that have enhanced his magic performances. Consulting on Films Jonathan recounts his experience consulting on films like “The Incredible Burt Wonderstone,” working with actors like Steve Carell and Jim Carrey. He shares memorable moments from the set and the unique challenges of bringing magic to the big screen. Vegas Show Jonathan provides insights into his current show at the Venetian in Las Vegas, describing its intimate and theatrical format. He discusses the journey of getting the show to Vegas and the dynamics of running a successful production in a competitive environment. The Stranger App Jonathan explains the creation and functionality of The Stranger app, a powerful magic trick that combines technology and community. He highlights the app’s impact on his performances and the global community of magicians it has fostered. Nexus Project Jonathan introduces his latest project, Nexus, which serves as a digital hub for creating innovative magic routines. He details the features of Nexus and how it allows magicians to integrate various inputs and outputs seamlessly into their performances. Endless Chain Jonathan recommends Christopher Hart as a future guest for the podcast, noting his expertise and contributions to the world of magic. Mentions Jonathan Levit’s Website Jonathan Levit Instagram Twisting the Aces The Stranger App

In this episode, Jonah sits down with Rachel Wax to discuss her journey from fashion to full-time magic, performing at Speakeasy Magick, and her creative process for developing new routines. Getting Into Magic Rachel’s introduction to magic came from her father, a surgeon with a passion for tricks. At 15, she learned a self-working card trick, sparking a lifelong fascination. Despite initially pursuing fashion design at FIT in New York, Rachel found herself drawn into the city’s magic scene, demoing magic kits at FAO Schwarz and Toys ‘R’ Us. This led her to The Magnets, a group of magicians who jammed and performed together, helping her refine her craft. The New York Magic Scene Rachel shares insights into what makes the New York magic scene unique, from its competitive nature to the high expectations of its audiences. She highlights how performing in such a dynamic city pushes magicians to be better and why close-up magic is having a moment right now. Speakeasy Magic and Performing in Immersive Environments As a regular performer at Speakeasy Magick Rachel describes the challenges and rewards of working in an immersive, up-close environment. She explains how the show is structured, what makes it special, and how it has shaped her as a performer. Creative Process and Mind Mapping Rachel breaks down her approach to creating new magic, including how she uses mind mapping to develop tricks that align with her character. She also walks through her process for refining routines, incorporating audience feedback, and continuously evolving her material. Being a Woman in Magic Rachel candidly discusses her experiences as a woman in the magic industry, from dealing with audience perceptions to navigating sexism at conventions. She shares how she turns low expectations into an advantage and the importance of fostering an inclusive and supportive magic community. The Business of Magic in New York Jonah and Rachel discuss the business side of magic, including how private gigs and ticketed shows shape a magician’s career in New York. Rachel also touches on why having multiple great magic shows in a city helps grow the industry rather than creating competition. Mentions Speakeasy Magic Vanishing Inc. (Mind Mapping project) Rachel Wax’s Website Instagram Endless Chain Rachel recommends checking out: Eli Bosnick  

In this week’s episode of Discourse in Magic, Jonah Babins kicks off the new year with an insightful discussion about the January slump—a reality for many magicians—and how to turn it into an opportunity for growth. With the rush of holiday gigs behind us, Jonah explains how January offers a unique chance to focus on improving your magic business. The January Slump: A Common Challenge As Jonah points out, January can feel like a shock after the busiest month of the year. December brings a whirlwind of gigs, inquiries, and emails, but when the clock strikes midnight on New Year’s Eve, everything seems to come to a halt. Jonah reassures listeners that this is entirely normal—not just for you, but for magicians everywhere. In fact, it’s the slowest month of the year for most performers, as evidenced by the revenue data he tracks for his mastermind group of magicians. Rather than feeling discouraged, Jonah invites you to see this slow season as a gift. Instead of scrambling to keep up with gigs and inquiries, you now have the time to work on your business rather than in your business. Three Big Projects to Tackle in January Jonah highlights three key areas to focus on during this quieter season to set yourself up for long-term success: Revamp Your Website January is the perfect time to improve your website. Whether it’s upgrading the design, adding a booking form, or updating images, this is the time to make changes. With less traffic coming in, you don’t have to worry about downtime, giving you the freedom to experiment and improve.  Create a New Promo Video If you captured video footage from your holiday gigs, now is the time to turn it into a standout promo video. Jonah emphasizes the importance of crafting a video that showcases your best moments—whether it’s a trick with fire, a big audience reaction, or a beautifully staged performance. With January’s slower pace, you can give this project the time and attention it deserves.  Set Up or Upgrade Your CRM If you’ve started booking gigs regularly, it might be time to implement a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) system to organize your client data. Jonah shares his thoughts on different CRM options and explains why this is a task best tackled during a slower season, rather than in the chaos of the holiday rush.  The One Thing You Must Do in January Planning your entire year is Jonah’s top recommendation for January. He explains how having a roadmap for your goals, projects, and marketing efforts can keep you on track throughout the year. Without a plan, it’s easy for big projects—like setting up Google ads or improving your SEO—to fall by the wayside. Jonah also encourages listeners to reflect on the previous year. What types of gigs did you enjoy most? What areas of your business could be improved? This self-assessment will help you prioritize your efforts and make 2025 your best year yet. Join the “Preloaded Year” Workshop To help magicians plan their year, Jonah is hosting a free workshop called The Preloaded Year on January 15th. In just 75 minutes, he’ll guide participants through creating a comprehensive plan for their magic business. Whether it’s marketing, business development, or personal goals, you’ll walk away with a clear strategy for the year ahead. Can’t make the live session? No problem! Jonah is offering a recording of the workshop for a limited time to those who sign up. Click the link in the episode description to secure your spot. Final Thoughts This episode is packed with actionable advice for magicians looking to make the most of January. By embracing the slower season and focusing on big-picture projects, you can set yourself up for success in 2025. Links and Resources Sign up for the Preloaded Year workshop here. Follow Jonah on Instagram: @JonahBabinsmagic We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode. What projects are you tackling this January? Share your plans in the comments or on social media, and let’s make 2025 a year to remember! Be sure to subscribe to Discourse in Magic for more insights, tips, and strategies to elevate your magic business.

Renowned magician and captivating storyteller Taylor Hughes joins us for an insightful exploration of his magical journey. We unravel Taylor’s innovative blend of storytelling and illusion, a unique approach shaped by early influences like the Magic Castle Junior Society. Taylor opens up about crafting acts that not only mesmerize but also resonate deeply with audiences, highlighting the impact of social media and digital platforms like Amazon on broadening his reach and redefining success in modern magic. We discuss the art of evolution in performance, drawing parallels between the worlds of magic and comedy. Taylor shares how his career took a transformative turn, fueled by a pivotal conversation with his wife that encouraged the integration of personal stories into his acts. This shift not only revitalized his performances but also deepened audience connections, demonstrating the power of authenticity and personal expression in creating memorable experiences. The conversation also touches on the practicalities of rebuilding a career and the necessity of embracing change to avoid creative stagnation. Taylor also offers valuable insights into the business side of magic, from mastering the art of emceeing to crafting a comedy magic special. He discusses the strategic use of social media and touring techniques to maximize exposure and reach new audiences. With anecdotes about pivotal career moments and the importance of a digital footprint, this episode is a treasure trove of advice for magicians and performers aspiring to expand their horizons in today’s ever-evolving entertainment landscape. Join us for this inspiring dialogue that illuminates the path to success in the art of magic and beyond. Rebuilding Magic Career Through Hustle We explore the journey of a magician who started his career in the Junior Society, inspired by Diana Zimmerman’s advice to embrace their unique desire to perform and to always accept opportunities. Despite a successful start, a shift to working as a youth pastor led to a temporary pause in performing magic. Returning to magic full-time required starting from scratch, borrowing props, and reaching out to old contacts, driven by the need to support his family. Evolution of Magic Performance Styles We discuss the philosophy of magic, particularly the tendency of magicians to polish their acts to the point where they lose their original charm. Drawing comparisons to comedians who create, refine, and then release new material, the conversation highlights the importance of evolving one’s act to prevent stagnation and maintain engagement. We discuss how magicians often perform the same routine for decades, which can become stale both for the performer and the audience Crafting Relatable Stories in Magic We talk about how the key to resonating with people lies in sharing universal themes and experiences, even if they stem from personal and unique stories. Drawing inspiration from the success of shows like “Everybody Loves Raymond,” where personal anecdotes became universally relatable, we highlight the challenge in magic where the focus on skill can create a disconnect. Touring Strategies for Magicians Taylor shares insights borrowed from fellow comedians, like Dave Nihill, on how to effectively use Facebook and Instagram ads to target specific areas and the importance of having compelling content, such as videos, to engage potential audiences. The concept of “four walling” is explained, where comedians rent venues independently, similar to how promoters operate. I discuss leveraging corporate gigs to cover travel expenses, allowing for the testing of new markets with additional performances. Key tactics include collaborating with venues that have established mailing lists, growing a personal mailing list tagged by city, and using creative content to entice and inform audiences. The emphasis is on using multiple tools, such as ads, mailing lists, and local connections, to build a fan base and ensure successful shows. Endless Chain Mark James Mentions https://www.learnwithtaylor.com/ Code: Jonah https://www.magiccastle.com/junior-academy/ https://www.taylorhughes.com/ https://www.instagram.com/magicstoryteller/ https://www.facebook.com/themagicstoryteller/

Join us as we sit down with the incredibly talented Dustin Tavella, winner of the 2021 season of America’s Got Talent, who shares his inspiring journey from a young magician dressed as a clown to a celebrated performer captivating audiences worldwide. Dustin recounts how his passion for magic began with a simple magic kit and a special trick gifted by his uncle, setting him on a path of discovery and performance. His story takes a fascinating turn as he explores the music industry, producing and writing for significant projects before rediscovering his love for magic through a serendipitous encounter. Dustin’s experiences highlight the importance of storytelling and connection in making magic meaningful, and he generously shares how his creative process is influenced by his wife’s intuition and his involvement in a homeless ministry. Explore the intersection of music and magic as Dustin reflects on his artistic journey and the challenges of finding a singular style. Despite his success in the music industry, he grappled with the desire for deeper fulfillment, leading him back to the enchanting world of magic. Drawing parallels between these two art forms, Dustin emphasizes the importance of audience engagement over technical perfection, both in music and magic. Through personal anecdotes, he offers valuable insights into balancing skill with the ability to connect and resonate with audiences, a theme that resonates throughout his performances. Listen in as we explore the power of authenticity and originality in magic, particularly in the high-stakes environment of America’s Got Talent. Dustin discusses the challenges of crafting unique acts and how personal storytelling sets performers apart. We touch on the influence of mentorship and collaboration, highlighting how diverse perspectives from friends and mentors enriched Dustin’s magic. Finally, Dustin shares his experiences performing in Branson, Missouri, a vibrant backdrop for his evolving magic show. Whether discussing the creative freedom found in Branson or the importance of genuine connection, this episode offers an inspiring look at how personal experiences and feedback shape a truly authentic magic performance. Music, Magic, and Finding Style Dustin takes us through a fascinating journey of transitioning between two artistic realms: music and magic. He reflects on his experiences in the music industry, where he had the chance to work with producers and contribute to significant projects like ESPN and the 100th anniversary of the Rose Bowl. Despite his success, Dustin grappled with the challenge of not finding a singular style due to his diverse interests in various music genres, which, while a hindrance as an artist, proved beneficial from a production perspective. This reflection led him to a crossroads, where he realized that neither end of the music industry’s spectrum were fulfilling. Transitioning into magic, Dustin drew parallels between the two art forms, emphasizing the importance of connecting with audiences. Authenticity and Originality in Magic We unpack the unique challenges and opportunities of performing magic on a platform like America’s Got Talent (AGT). We discuss the difficulty of creating new and unique acts in a space where many iconic magicians have already set high standards. The conversation highlights the importance of authenticity and personal storytelling as key differentiators in magic, emphasizing that while many can purchase tricks, the real magic lies in who the magician is as a person. We touch on the notion that people can sense authenticity, which becomes crucial for magicians who inherently deal in illusion. By embracing individuality and honesty, performers can resonate more deeply with their audience. This discussion offers valuable insights for current performers, underscoring the significance of being genuine and how that authenticity can become the defining element of a magician’s act. Authenticity in Gospel Magic We discuss the intricate balance of performing authentic magic that conveys meaningful messages, particularly within the realm of gospel and inspirational magic. We discuss the challenges that arise when magic feels forced or inauthentic, drawing parallels to scripted and impersonal experiences often felt in churches. Emphasizing the importance of starting with a genuine story, I highlight the need for the message to stand alone, even without the magic trick. The conversation underscores the significance of sharing personal struggles and emotions to connect with audiences, rather than projecting an image of perfection. By revealing our own vulnerabilities and journeys, we aim to resonate more deeply with people, making the magic a supportive element rather than the sole focus. Endless Chain Brent Braun Mentions https://www.dustintavella.com/ https://www.facebook.com/DustinTavella/ https://www.instagram.com/dustintavella/