Leading Saints Podcast

Brigham Young University professor and religious folklorist Christopher Blythe discusses the nature of revelation, spiritual manifestations, and claims to mysticism within Latter-day Saint history and culture. The conversation examines how members and leaders can evaluate personal spiritual experiences, navigate claims of revelation that exceed proper authority, and guard against deceptive influences or speculative practices. Dr. Christopher Blythe is an assistant professor of English at BYU, where he teaches courses on folklore, myth, and Latter-day Saint literature. He holds a PhD in American Religion from Florida State University, an MA in History from Utah State University, and a BA in Religious Studies from Utah State University. Professionally, Dr. Blythe has worked extensively as a religious folklorist and historian, including previous roles with the Joseph Smith Papers Project, the Church History Department, and as a research associate at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship. He is also the author of Terrible Revolution: Latter-day Saints and the American Apocalypse, a study on millenarianism and lay visions in Church history. As a convert who joined the Church at age 13, Dr. Blythe’s research centers on “vernacular religion”—exploring how everyday members live, share, and interpret their faith on the ground. Over the years, he has served in various Church callings, including as a missionary in West Virginia, a high priest group leader, and in various local leadership and teaching assignments. He resides in Utah with his family, where he also co-hosts online content exploring Latter-day Saint history and folklore. Links Dr. Blythe’s Lost Library Angels and Seerstones LDS Uncorrelated Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights 00:03:00 – Dr. Christopher Blythe on Religious Folklore and Vernacular Religion 00:06:22 – Navigating Mysticism, Personal Stories, and Spiritual Trump Cards 00:09:18 – Calling Members, Priesthood Keys, and Avoiding Manipulation 00:17:11 – Cultural Misconceptions Around Foreordination and Pre-Existence 00:20:34 – Hiram Page, D&C 28, and the Order of Revelatory Authority 00:23:25 – Kirtland Manifestations, D&C 50 & 52, and Trying the Spirits 00:29:21 – Continuationism, Manifestations, and Modern Church History 00:35:16 – Discernment and Circles of Confidence in Sharing Personal Revelations 00:44:17 – Recognizing Divine Manifestations and the Baptism of Fire 00:47:10 – Cognitive Bias, Discomfort, and the Cost of Discipleship 00:54:02 – The 1913 Dream Mine First Presidency Statement on Speculation 01:02:37 – Offshoot Movements, Energy Healing, and Focusing on the Family 01:09:05 – Addressing Doubts, Questions, and Counterfeit Revelations 01:12:41 – Handbook Guidance on Energy Healing Key Insights Vernacular Religion & Interpretation: Official Church handbooks, scriptures, and doctrines provide structure, but “vernacular religion”—how individual members interpret and live their faith on the ground—shapes how spiritual experiences and calls are experienced day-to-day. Hierarchy and Bounds of Revelation: Early Church history, such as the 1830 revelation regarding Hiram Page’s seer stone (D&C 28), established the fundamental principle that while all members are entitled to personal revelation for their own spheres, only the head of the Church receives revelation to direct the Church as a whole. Trying the Spirits: Grounded in early revelations (such as D&C 50 and 52), leaders and members are instructed to “try the spirits” to ensure spiritual manifestations align with standard Church doctrine, priesthood channels, and sound judgment rather than self-serving claims or deceptive influences. Mysticism vs. Daily Discipleship: Spiritual trump cards or over-mystifying administrative decisions can lead to manipulation or unrealistic expectations. True spiritual grounding often manifests in consistent, daily acts of service and devotion—particularly within the family—rather than sensational claims. Historical Warnings Against Deception: Historical declarations, such as the 1913 First Presidency statement on the “Dream Mine,” warn against individuals using claims of visions, dreams, or private revelations to induce members into financial schemes, speculative ventures, or movements that undermine established priesthood authority. Leadership Applications Guiding Council Dynamics: Leaders can prevent individuals from using “spiritual trump cards” (e.g., claiming a strong spiritual feeling to override council discussions) by maintaining that decisions should be made through open, prayerful deliberation under proper priesthood keys. Handling Boundary-Crossing Claims: When members present private revelations intended to direct others, advise the ward, or promote speculative groups, leaders can refer to foundational principles of stewardship to gently clarify that personal inspiration applies only within one’s assigned sphere or family. Reframing Calls and Service: Leaders can help members focus on covenant-keeping and everyday Christlike living, reducing the cultural tendency to view callings or leadership roles through an ego-driven or hyper-mystical lens. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.

Davis Smith is the founder, chairman, and emeritus CEO of Cotopaxi, a Salt Lake City–based outdoor gear brand dedicated to poverty alleviation. Raised throughout Latin America, he developed a lifelong commitment to social impact after witnessing economic inequality firsthand. A serial e-commerce entrepreneur, Davis founded several successful ventures, including Brazil’s 2012 “Startup of the Year,” before building Cotopaxi into a global brand that has assisted millions living in poverty. He has served as a Presidential Leadership Scholar and a member of the United Nations Foundation’s Global Leadership Council. Alongside his career in social business, Davis is a Senior Fellow at Yale University’s Jackson School of Global Affairs, where he teaches courses on leadership and social entrepreneurship. Davis and his wife, Asialene, are the parents of four children and have served extensively in Church leadership, including as mission leaders in the Brazil Recife North Mission (2023–2026) and in a stake presidency. He holds degrees from BYU and the Wharton School and is the author of The Next Ten Years. Links The Next Ten Years: A Returned Missionary’s Guide to the Decade That Shapes Your Life Weaving a Vision into Your Service | An Interview with Davis Smith Watch the video and share your thoughts in the Zion Lab community Transcript available with the video in the Zion Lab community Highlights In this YouTube livestream conversation, Kurt and Davis talk about navigating post-mission transitions, applying practical life skills, and developing lifelong discipleship centered on Jesus Christ. 00:01:27 – Davis Smith’s Mission Experience 00:02:14 – Missionary Statistics and Diversity 00:03:02 – Background in Brazil 00:04:42 – Overview of the Book Project 00:05:08 – Life Lessons from Zone Conferences 00:07:21 – Importance of Lifelong Discipleship 00:09:02 – Connecting Mission Skills to Life Skills 00:10:34 – Preparing Missionaries for Post-Mission Life 00:11:05 – Sending Off Missionaries 00:12:49 – The Contract for Return Missionaries 00:14:44 – The Significance of Marco Zero 00:15:15 – Maintaining Relationships with Returned Missionaries 00:15:46 – Intimate Compassion and the Good Samaritan 00:18:57 – Selecting Principles for the Book 00:21:00 – Book Release and Formats 00:21:54 – The Importance of the Next 10 Years 00:23:45 – Critical Times for Return Missionaries 00:26:27 – Spiritual Growth After the Mission 00:28:51 – Finding Purpose After a Mission 00:30:38 – Supporting Return Missionaries 00:32:13 – Advice for Parents of Return Missionaries Key Insights Connecting Mission Skills to Real-Life Success: The competencies developed on a mission—such as goal setting, communication, team coordination, and networking—directly translate into professional, financial, and relational success when returned missionaries learn to connect those dots. Intimate Compassion (Oil Before Wine): Drawing from the parable of the Good Samaritan, effective leadership and personal correction require establishing love and empathy (“oil”) before offering invitation, counsel, or direction (“wine”). Aiming for Continuous Growth, Not Maintenance: A spiritual peak reached during dedicated service should serve as a baseline for future growth rather than a status to merely maintain. Immediate Post-Mission Focus & Purpose: The initial three to six months after full-time service are the most critical for establishing daily habits, securing church callings, avoiding technology distractions, and redirecting focus outward toward community service. Financial Stewardship Early in Life: Establishing foundational financial habits—such as paying tithing first, saving consistently, and utilizing simple long-term investment vehicles like index funds—early in adulthood creates long-term independence and security. Leadership Applications Ask Intentional, Reflective Questions: Rather than asking for casual stories, leaders and parents can help returned missionaries process their service by asking targeted questions about spiritual gifts discovered, personal habits to keep, and lessons learned from mission leaders. Provide Clear Purpose and Responsibility: Local leaders can ease tough life transitions by extending meaningful callings or mentoring assignments early on, helping individuals shift their focus away from self-centered anxiety and toward serving others. Support Alternate & Service Mission Paths: Leaders should exercise empathy and avoid judgment when a mission ends unexpectedly or transitions to a service mission, recognizing that God’s plan and approval apply to all sincere efforts to serve. The award-winning Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saints’ mission to help Latter-day Saints be better prepared to lead. Find Leadership Tools, Courses, and Community for Latter-day Saint leaders in the Zion Lab community. Learn more and listen to any of the past episodes for free at LeadingSaints.org. Past guests include Emily Belle Freeman, David Butler, Hank Smith, John Bytheway, Reyna and Elena Aburto, Liz Wiseman, Stephen M. R. Covey, Benjamin Hardy, Elder Alvin F. Meredith III, Julie Beck, Brad Wilcox, Jody Moore, Tony Overbay, John H. Groberg, Elaine Dalton, Tad R. Callister, Lynn G. Robbins, J. Devn Cornish, Bonnie Oscarson, Dennis B. Neuenschwander, Kirby Heyborne, Taysom Hill, Coaches Jennifer Rockwood and Brandon Doman, Anthony Sweat, John Hilton III, Barbara Morgan Gardner, Blair Hodges, Whitney Johnson, Ryan Gottfredson, Greg McKeown, Ganel-Lyn Condie, Michael Goodman, Wendy Ulrich, Richard Ostler, and many more in over 800 episodes. Discover podcasts, articles, virtual conferences, and live events related to callings such as the bishopric, Relief Society, elders quorum, Primary, youth leadership, stake leadership, ward mission, ward council, young adults, ministering, and teaching.