Liberating Motherhood

In patriarchy, there is no sure escape from violent relationships. The courts and police may not help. Friends and family may turn their backs. And even when a woman’s life is in danger, she does not have the same right to self-defense as a man. Journalist Justine van der Leun began researching this phenomenon when she learned about Nikki Addimando, a woman who killed her abusive partner in self-defense. Thanks to a grassroots campaign and some great lawyers, Nikki has now been freed, but just a few years ago, Nikki was sentenced to 19 years to life. Justine wondered how many other Nikkis were out there. Experts told her that jails and prisons are full of women just like Nikki. Her new book, Unreasonable Women, is about what we do to women who kill in self-defense, as well as the patriarchal norms that reinforce men’s right to violence—and women’s right only to die from men’s violence. In this conversation, we confront the reality of criminalized survival, and patriarchy’s unquenchable desire to punish abuse victims. Some of the topics we cover include: Criminalized survival, and why our legal system ignores women’s right to self-defense. Why being in an abusive relationship is a risk factor for ending up in prison. The crime of surviving as an abuse victim. The common theme that government will spend few or no resources to help impoverished kids, abused kids, or battered women, but will quickly and competently put those same people in prison, expending massive resources to do so. The expectation that women being attacked by men will apply a perfect legal standard of self-defense, exert more self-control than we expect from trained police officers, and behave like perfect victims at all times. The concept of violence against women as regulated rather than illegal. Stories of three women who killed in self-defense, and how all three ended up incarcerated. Unreasonable Women is out now. I hope you’ll buy it, since doing so supports feminist scholarship and shows publishers that we want more feminist work. You can find Justine’s book, as well as all books I mention on the podcast, along with several reading lists, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.About Justine van der Leun Justine van der Leun is a journalist, author, and creator and host of the acclaimed podcast Believe Her. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, The New York Review of Books, New York Magazine, Harper’s Magazine, and The Guardian. She has received fellowships from New America, the Emerson Collective, and PEN America, and more. Justine brings both deep investigative reporting and a thoughtful, engaging interview presence to conversations about violence, justice, and survival.

“There is always a reason for people to hate on women.” — Elizabeth DalgarnoWhy is it so hard for victims of coercive control, domestic violence, and other forms of abuse to be believed? This is the subject Elizabeth Dalgarno has devoted much of her work to. A leading researcher on coercive control, Dr. Dalgarno has written extensively on abusive relationships, including on how they affect children and why family court norms are so harmful for victims. No matter where you live, the court system was never set up to protect women and children. So what do we do? How can we survive? Survival begins with understanding the severity of the problem. In this podcast episode, Dr. Dalgarno and I talk about abuse as the normal state of heterosexual relationships, and how family court systems reinforce the abuse. Some of the topics we cover include: The myth of high-conflict divorce, and the reality of victims and perpetrators. How family courts victimize women, and why so many women enter family court systems totally unprepared. How patriarchy has weaponized the notion of false memories. For decades, therapists of dubious skill and integrity induced false memories in their clients. This caused real harm that has continued for decades. But real abusers have weaponized the notion of false memories to silence people with very real, very true memories. This has even occurred in documented, proven cases of abuse, such as with Jeffrey Epstein. The false notion of parental alienation syndrome. The creator of this concept asserted that children “seduce” their fathers, and implied that pedophilia is “natural.” How trauma undermines the believeability of victim-survivors, and why victims rarely act the way we expect them to. How gender norms create impossible mothering standards that then harm victims in family court. Why sexual abuse of children is so common. Why outcomes in family court are not women’s faults, and why the bad outcomes are the system working as intended. Strategies that may help in family court. A quick note: Dr. Dalgarno’s discussion of the family court system addresses norms that pervade across legal systems, but the specific family court system she speaks about is the British system. Not all countries have private and public courts, but the general principles Dr. Dalgarno speaks to will apply everywhere. About Elizabeth DalgarnoDr. Elizabeth Dalgarno is a world-leading coercive control researcher and advocate. She is the Director and Founder of SHERA Research Group, a global collective researching the harms to health and human rights violations against women and children in the family courts and other institutions. She is also a Lecturer at the University of Manchester, England. Elizabeth has worked in public and private health and social care for over 20 years specialising in challenging violence against women and children and systemic inequalities for all people in law, health and social care.You can read her incredible Substack here.

I’ve often said that there’s a concerted effort to get people to hate lawyers, and it’s because when people hate lawyers, they won’t assert or even learn about their own rights. Lawyers have helped lead every movement for social justice, and in the United States, are behind every imaginable civil rights gain. Inimai Chettiar, an American attorney and President of A Better Balance, has used the legal system to fight for a more just world for two decades. She began her career working to end mass incarceration, and is now fighting for the rights of working mothers. This diversity of experience lends her unique insight into the American legal system. In our conversation, we cover a wide range of topics, including: How to make the legal system work for women, instead of always against us. Inimai’s work at A Better Balance, including a lawsuit against Amazon for abuse of pregnant workers. The fight for paid leave at work, and the role it plays in the broader fight for women’s equality. How mass incarceration affects women. What people get wrong about the legal system, and how it affects their ability to fight for their own rights. IVF and its shortcomings. Inimai has had two children via IVF, and has researched and written extensively about IVF, infertility and older women, and the specific issues women of color undergoing fertility treatments face. This is a must listen if you struggle with infertility or hope to have children in your forties. About Inimai ChettiarInimai Chettiar is President of A Better Balance. She leads the organization’s pioneering efforts to advance fair and supportive work-family policies like paid family and medical leave, paid sick time, and fair and flexible scheduling, and to combat discrimination against pregnant people and family caregivers in the workplace. She is a leading civil rights attorney and justice advocate with more than two decades of experience leveraging the law to advance transformative reforms. With deep experience in litigation, advocacy, coalition building, and communications, Chettiar’s approach to serving as A Better Balance’s President is framed around the intersectionality between social justice, racial justice, and workplace policies that advance meaningful change for women and families. Her personal experiences also drive her passion for A Better Balance’s mission to build a future where all workers can care for themselves and their loved ones, without risking their economic security.Chettier was appointed as President of A Better Balance in 2024. Previously, she served as Deputy Executive Director of the Justice Action Network, the nation’s largest bipartisan criminal justice reform organization. Her leadership and coalition building helped secure the passage of the First Step Act, which released over 30,000 people from prison, the Fair Chance Act, and other key federal legislation. Chettiar also served as the Director of the Justice Program at the Brennan Center for Justice, where she established the Center as a national leader in ending mass incarceration, authored groundbreaking reports on crime and incarceration, positioned criminal justice as an issue central to the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections and the national narrative, worked to transform law enforcement. Through Chettiar’s leadership, mass incarceration became recognized as more than an issue of criminal justice reform and was successfully framed around the deep and generational impact it has on families. She also served as Counsel at the American Civil Liberties Union, Legal Fellow at the Institute for Policy Integrity, and Litigation Associate at Debevosie & Plimpton LLP. She is a graduate of Georgetown University and the University of Chicago Law School, is widely published in numerous journals, reports, and books, and is quoted extensively across top tier national media outlets.

You’re being lied to about gender difference science. Researchers are inflating, overstating, and falsifying their data, or building biases into the research that render it unreliable. Stories about research inflate the limited differences these flawed studies find, and parenting advice suggests that we should treat girls and boys as radically different types of humans. So we do exactly that, and then we insist that different outcomes mean that gender differences must be innate and unchangeable. No matter what researchers see in scans of female brains—and even when they see different things in different brains—they conclude that their data prove that women are naturally and inevitably more emotional than men. Lots of activity in a particular brain region, limited activity in that same region, lots of activity in some women and limited activity in others—it’s all used as evidence to support the same bias. This research is everywhere, and everyone seems to “know” that the differences between men and women are significant and vast. When you dig into the research, though, that turns out not to be the case. The challenge is that most of us lack the expertise and time to read the research—especially since the promulgators of scientific sexism are constantly producing more research (and more questionable research). Cordelia Fine is a researcher who argues that the science is weak, the assumptions underlying it are flawed, and that the goal isn’t scientific truth or progress. She’s written extensively about harmful gender difference science, and I was so thrilled to bring her on the podcast. Some of the topics we discuss include: The myriad problems with studies of sex differences: research that doesn’t prove what it claims to, popular media that overstates research claims, and more. The false assumptions that go into gender difference research, and how those assumptions affect research outcomes. The misrepresentation, and occasional outright fabrication, of scientific research. The cornucopia of myths about testosterone specifically, and hormones more generally, that color our perceptions about gender. The numerous forces putting gender role pressure on children, including before they are even born. The normalization of gender roles in casual social relationships, and how often these issues come up in parenting small talk. Why something being biological does not mean it is innate, inevitable, or unchangeable. Spurious results, and the replication crisis in behavioral science. The just-so stories we tell to understand research findings and defend the existence of gender differences. The weaponization of perimenopause to stigmatize and dismiss women. Find Cordelia’s books, all of the books recommended on the podcast, and numerous reading lists at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop. About Cordelia FineCordelia Fine is an academic and writer. Her work analyses scientific and popular biological explanations of behavioral sex differences and workplace gender inequalities, explores the effects of gender-related attitudes and biases on judgments and decision-making, and contributes to debates about workplace gender equality. She was recently named a “living legend” of research by The Australian.She is the author of Patriarchy Inc., Testosterone Rex, Delusions of Gender and A Mind of Its Own and has been published in more than a dozen languages. Among other accolades, Testosterone Rex won the Royal Society Insight Investment Science Book Prize. Delusions of Gender was listed in ‘Ten books about women that will change your life’ (Sunday Times), ‘22 books women think men should read’ (Huffington Post), ‘Top 10 books on women in the past 30 years’ (The Australian) and the New York Public Library’s Essential Reads on Feminism, 100 Years After the 19th Amendment, among others. In recognition of her work on the understanding of gender stereotypes, challenging gender perceptions and contributions to public discourse to close the gender gap, Cordelia Fine was awarded the 2018 Edinburgh Medal by the City of Edinburgh Council, to honor men and women of science who have made a significant contribution to the understanding and well-being of humanity. Cordelia Fine has degrees from Oxford University, Cambridge University and UCL and is now a professor in the History & Philosophy of Science programme in the School of Historical & Philosophical Studies at the University of Melbourne.

Patriarchy destroys relationships, and it has turned dating into a nightmare. Jennie Young is fighting back with her Burned Haystack method, and now the method is a book. Through her work, Jennie endeavors to teach women to detect red flags before they become obvious, and to thwart abuse before it happens. Dating is the most dangerous thing most of us do, and I have no doubt that Jennie is saving lives. In this podcast episode, Jennie and I discuss: Why dating is so awful, and why men seem like they’re getting worse. What the Burned Haystack method is, and how it can reduce the stress and misery of dating. Specific rhetorical and behavioral patterns to look out for in early dating. Why dating advice really is a matter of life and death. And much more! The first date video I mentioned early in the podcast is here. Jeff and I discuss the Application to be Zawn’s Boyfriend here. Jennie Young’s book will be out April 7th. If you want publishers to take on more feminist authors, please consider pre-ordering. Pre-orders are a huge determinant of a book’s success, and you can create a more thriving marketplace for all feminist authors by buying Jennie’s book. About Jennie YoungJennie Young is a professor of writing and rhetoric at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, specializing in applied rhetoric, humor, and feminism. She holds a Ph.D. in rhetoric and discourse studies from Case Western Reserve University and a satire writing certificate from Second City Chicago. Her work has been published in McSweeney’s, Ms. Magazine, HuffPost, and others and covered by major media outlets such as The New York Times, RollingStone, Washington Post, Newsweek, and Wall Street Journal.Visit Jennie at her website here, and be sure to check out her Substack. You can join her man-free support group on Facebook.You can preorder her book, Burn the Haystack, here.Find all books referenced on the podcast, as well as additional book recommendations, here.

I wrote recently about how men are using AI to prop up their belief in their own superiority. This propaganda is nothing new. Men have, for thousands of years, used every tool at their disposal to spread false ideas about women’s inferiority and demonic nature. Sarah Ruden is a translator, a classicist, and the author of Reproductive Wrongs: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women. She came on the podcast to discuss her new book, which outlines how popular literature and culture have long normalized women’s subjugation by spreading lies about women. We ended up having a sprawling conversation during which we talked not just about this book, but about her translations work, Biblical views of womanhood, and so much more. It was such a treat to get to pick such a brilliant mind. No matter what you’re interested in, I think you’ll find something compelling in this episode. A few of the topics we discuss include: The long history of constraining women’s reproductive rights in service of men, including anti-abortion poems by the poet Ovid. The alliance between anti-abortion ideology and authoritarianism. Why history is more than a set of facts, and why it matters who tells stories from the past. What Sarah has learned as a translator of the Biblical Gospels, and why good translations are so crucial to our understanding of the world. Sarah talks specifically about how the canonical translations of the Gospels suppress women’s point of view and demean women. Why our beliefs do not spring up out of nowhere. Not only is propaganda everywhere, but it has always been everywhere. The similarities between red pill bros and the men who have translated sacred texts and beloved secular literature. The line from Roman anti-abortion rhetoric to the rhetoric of today’s far right, including a focus on genocide. The role of anti-abortion politics in imperialism. Why the anti-abortion movement has co-opted the Holocaust to justify extreme violence. The Catholic church’s shift toward more flexibility on everything except for abortion. About Sarah RudenSarah Ruden is a leading translator of the ancient literature of the West. In a career spanning both essential Greek and Roman Classics and sacred literature, she has set new standards for accuracy, stylistic integrity, and accessibility. Her work, including cultural and human-rights journalism, is deeply concerned with questions of power and truth, in accordance with her Quaker faith. She has won Guggenheim, Whiting, and Silvers grants, and numerous other awards.She has a PhD in classical philology from Harvard University.Her latest book, Reproductive Wrongs: A Short History of Bad Ideas About Women, came out March 3rd. You can find this wonderful book, as well as several of Sarah’s other books, in the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.

Today we are going to be learning from the legendary reproductive justice activist Loretta Ross. Loretta is my feminist hero and role model, and I feel so lucky that she was willing to share some time with me. How is it that a human rights movement rooted in the shared value and worth of every human being so often devolves into a toxic stew of abuse and hurt feelings? Anyone who participates in leftist political movements has seen small disagreements spiral into mutual attacks, psychological brutality, and worst of all, fractured and less powerful movements. Lasting change requires us to build solidarity across difference. At the very least, we must be able to resolve small disagreements. Ideally, though, we have to bring more people into the fold—including people we really don’t like, including people with whom we have very significant moral disagreements. I’ve often noted that the anti-choice movement succeeded by standing in lockstep with one another, no matter how much they hated each other. They built a movement for 50 years, and they succeeded. We can learn a lot from them. But leftist coalitions are diverse and highly principled. These are good things, but they can make it challenging to work together. So I’ve been thinking a lot about how we can do this. And then I found Loretta Ross’s book, Calling In. It has helped me to consider my own role in toxic call-out culture, and to seize opportunities to build consensus and coalitions rather than elevating myself and my ego. This, I think, is the only way we move forward. There’s lots of advice about how to be a better activist, what this moment means, and how to deal with people who disagree with us. I think the most useful advice comes from people who have actually succeeded at sustaining a lifetime of activism. Loretta has changed hearts and minds over and over, working with people many of us would never even want to talk to. She has done the work that progress demands, and now she’s here to teach us how to do it, too. You’ll recognize some of what we discuss from my earlier episode about sustaining hope as an activist. I cannot over-emphasize how much Loretta’s work has shifted my consciousness and influenced my own work, and I hope you find her wisdom as valuable as I do. Some of the topics we cover in this conversation include: Toxic call-out culture, and how it is destroying individual well-being as well as activist movements. How childhood wounds create toxic shame that we then foist onto our activist colleagues. How we build resilience and capacity to work across difference. Calling out vs. calling in, and how we know when to do each. Loretta’s experiences working with rapists and deprogramming white supremacist. How our egos can undermine our activism, and how we resist that temptation. The components of an effective call-in, and how to know when a call-in is likely to work. “When you ask people to give up hate, you must be prepared to be there for them when they do.” The concept of the victimized violator—the person who feels entitled to violate others because of their own victimization. How to respond to a call-out or call-in. Can we use calling in with ICE officers? How we can acknowledge the humanity of those doing harm without losing sight of their victims. How we sustain hope and avoid despair. About Loretta Ross Loretta J. Ross is a Professor at Smith College in Northampton, MA in the Program for the Study of Women and Gender. She teaches courses on white supremacy, human rights, and calling in the calling out culture. She has taught at Hampshire College and Arizona State University. She is a graduate of Agnes Scott College and holds an honorary Doctorate of Civil Law degree awarded in 2003 from Arcadia University and a second honorary doctorate degree awarded from Smith College in 2013. She also has credits towards a Ph.D. in Women’s Studies from Emory University. She serves as a consultant for Smith College, collecting oral histories of feminists of color for the Sophia Smith Collection, which also contains her personal archives. Loretta also is a recipient of a MacArthur Fellow, Class of 2022, for her work as an advocate of Reproductive Justice and Human Rights, and an inductee into the 2024 National Women’s Hall of Fame.Loretta’s activism began when she was tear-gassed at a demonstration as a first-year student at Howard University in 1970. As a teenager, she was involved in anti-apartheid and anti-gentrification activism in Washington, DC as a founding member of the DC Study Group. As part of a 50-year history in social justice activism until her retirement from community organizing in 2012, she was the National Coordinator of the SisterSong Women of Color Reproductive Justice Collective from 2005-2012 and co-created the theory of Reproductive Justice in 1994.Loretta was National Co-Director of April 25, 2004, March for Women’s Lives in Washington D.C., the largest protest march in U.S. history at that time with 1.15 million participants. She founded the National Center for Human Rights Education (NCHRE) in Atlanta, Georgia from 1996-2004. She launched the Women of Color Program for the National Organization for Women (NOW) in the 1980s and was the national program director of the National Black Women’s Health Project. Loretta was one of the first African American women to direct a rape crisis center in the 1970s, launching her career by pioneering work on violence against women, as the third Executive Director of the D.C. Rape Crisis Center. She is a member of the Women’s Media Center’s Progressive Women’s Voices. Watch Makers: Women Who Make America video.Loretta has co-written three books on reproductive justice: Undivided Rights: Women of Color Organize for Reproductive Justice in 2004; Reproductive Justice: An Introduction in March 2017; and Radical Reproductive Justice: Foundations, Theory, Practice, Critique in October 2017. Her newest book, Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You’d Rather Cancel is available now!Loretta is a rape survivor, forced to raise a child born of incest, and also a survivor of sterilization abuse at age 23. She is a model of how to survive and thrive despite the traumas that disproportionately affect low-income women of color.Loretta is a mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother.You can find all of Loretta’s books, as well as all books recommended on the podcast, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop page.

“Black men have been held accountable for things they didn’t do for so long, that we have forgotten how to hold them accountable for the things they do.” — Kiki BryantMen are stealing women’s lives by stealing their time. So why is it that we have widespread notions of women as spoiled, entitled gold diggers? The words we use matter. They focus our attention and make it easier (or harder) to speak about a topic. This is a sweeping conversation that covers a lot of ground. Some of what we talk about: How social media is using bans without any due process to suppress the voices of minority creators. Kiki lost her Facebook account, and we talk extensively about how many other writers this has happened to, drawing on research Kiki conducted. Social media has the power not just to silence people, but to remove everything they’ve ever previously said. The importance of memory in constructing philosophical beliefs, and how social media bans undermine collective memory. Kiki’s framework of labor diggers. The economic impact of being the default parent. Labor digging begins in childhood, and how gendered childhood norms set people up for miserable heterosexual relationships. The effects of mass incarceration on Black relationships specifically, and how this ongoing trauma contributes both to lower Black marriage rates and to misogynoir. The commonalities between Black manhood and white womanhood. The unique challenges facing Black women leaving abusive Black men. The pick-me feminist: the feminist who wants to talk about how she’s not like all the other feminists. Competitive parenting, breastfeeding while Black, and the use of parenting culture to reinforce hierarchy. About Kiki BryantKiki Bryant, known online as the Uppity Negress, is a mother, writer, and sociopolitical critic located in Chicago, IL.Follow her on Facebook here. Check out her amazing Substack here. Follow her on threads here. Buy her books on her website, which also has other merch and a ton of great information.

“Everyone is impacted by racism.” — Sabia Wade We’re back! It’s now Season 3 of the Liberating Motherhood podcast. As promised, this season you’ll be getting an episode every single week. Please consider helping this podcast continue to grow by: heart-reacting on Substack, liking on your favorite platform, leaving a comment on social media, leaving a positive review on your favorite podcast platform, and sharing the podcast with friends. Your support can help the podcast continue to grow and bring on great guests. The American birthing system is in crisis, with women dying at higher rates now than they did a generation ago. Birth if often traumatic, leaving lasting physical and emotional injuries. While everyone who gives birth is touched by this system, thing are especially bad for Black women, who die at roughly four times the rate of white women. No amount of education or money can reduce this risk; racism and misogyny are the factors that matter.Sabia Wade argues that the birth crisis is inseparable from the larger crises our culture faces, and that collective liberation means birth liberation, too. I was so excited to get to talk to her. Here are a few of the topics we discuss: The Prison Birth Project, prison birth, and the crises facing incarcerated women. How racism erodes everyone’s humanity, including by divorcing white people from their own humanness. The competing demands of accountability and inclusion, and how we build bigger, more powerful movements for liberation. What activism means, and how we cultivate meaningful activism. Racism in maternity care, the fact that the problem is getting worse, and what we need to do to stop this crisis. The racist social norms that have steadily pushed Black midwives out of obstetric care. The racist roots of modern obstetrics and gynecology. Care is more important than profit—and why a for-profit system will never provide comprehensive care. How racism limited Black people’s access to medical care, and how Black communities have responded with building their own systems of care. But now, for-profit medicine is seeking to commodify Black bodies and disrupt these community systems of care. Harm is inevitable, which is why we all must work to be more accountable. The defensiveness many obstetricians feel when confronted with the racist, misogynist reality of our birthing system. You can find all of the books I reference on the podcast, as well as many lists of recommended books, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop. About Sabia WadeSabia Wade (she/they) is a Black, queer, multi-disciplinary reproductive justice advocate, entrepreneur, and thought leader. As the creator and CEO of Birthing Advocacy Doula Trainings and founder of For The Village, Inc., Sabia has built accessible pathways for community care workers and birth justice advocates across the country.With roots as a volunteer doula at the Prison Birth Project, Sabia’s work now spans curriculum design, organizational strategy, full-spectrum doula care, and executive coaching. They are also the author of Birthing Liberation: How Reproductive Justice Can Set Us Free, a groundbreaking exploration of bias, healing, and collective freedom in reproductive care.Beyond advocacy and education, Sabia leads Tend & Mend Healing Studio in Wilmington, NC, offering herbalism, spiritual care, mediumship, Reiki, death doula support, and human design sessions—bringing a holistic, liberatory approach to healing and leadership.Find Sabia at sabiawade.com. You can also follow her on Instagram or LinkedIn, buy her book here, visit Tend and Mend Healing Studio, learn more about Birthing Advocacy Doula Trainings, or support her nonprofit, which trains the next generation of liberation-focused doulas. https://www.sabiawade.com/Sabia also was generous enough to offer a discount code for Liberating Motherhood listeners: Use coupon 15off at Tend & Mend Studio: shopAnd for BADT programming: https://birthingadvocacy.thinkific.com/

“White feminism is often about becoming equal to men, which makes you the leading oppressor across the globe. It leaves everyone else behind.”—Desiree Stephens I’ve been thinking a lot lately about how we bring more women—especially white women—into the feminist fold. And then, once they’re there, how do we get them to embrace an intersectional approach that acknowledges and tackles the entirety of supremacy culture? I think the answer begins and ends with community—building community, working through conflict, determining who in our community to support and prioritize. I brought my friend Desiree Stephens on the podcast to talk about how we build community across difference, how we recruit more women to the cause, and why things between Black women and white women so often break down. In this episode, we talk about: Why white women often end up feeling so defensive and aggrieved in anti-racist spaces. Why the closer proximity of white and Black women, as opposed to white men and Black women, fosters both conflict and opportunities for change. The notion that white women are in charge of social change while white men are in charge of systemic change. Shame as a colonial construct, and how the cycle of shame often keeps white women stuck. Why you cannot call yourself an ally—and why no one can attest that any person is a universal ally, or even a consistently reliable ally. What Desiree means when she says to give white men grace (and why it’s not about overlooking abuse). What it actually means to say that there are no good white people, and how “goodness” is a creation of supremacy culture. The link between mean girl culture and white supremacy. How white women should respond to call-outs. How leaving white supremacy can be similar to leaving abusive relationships. Worth is inherent; access is earned. About Desiree StephensDesireé B. Stephens, CSP-P, is a dynamic educator, counselor, and community builder dedicated to liberation through decolonization and whole-self healing. As the founder of Make Shi(f)t Happen and creator of the LIBERATE Framework™, she helps individuals and organizations dismantle systems of oppression, foster inclusive spaces, and embrace sustainable transformation.With a background rooted in trauma-informed care and intersectional approaches, Desireé specializes in wellness-centered, anti-harassment education and training. Her work spans personal growth, workplace equity, and community healing, offering tools that empower people to take actionable steps toward liberation.Desireé combines deep empathy with practical strategies, ensuring her teachings are both accessible and transformative. Through her Liberation Education Substack, seasonal circles, and workshops, she inspires changemakers to embrace introspection, dismantle oppressive systems, and build intentional, intersectional communities.Desireé’s passion for equity, reflection, and transformation is informed by her lived experiences and her commitment to co-creating a world where everyone can thrive. She believes in the power of rest, reflection, and intentional action to drive meaningful change—within ourselves and in the world around us.

LC DeShay is a reproductive justice sociologist, as well as a doula and lactation consultant who has worked on the front lines of women and children’s health. I brought them on as a witness, as someone who has seen what we do to women at their most vulnerable moments. I wanted to talk specifically about the male loneliness epidemic, and how it is weaponized to extract even more labor from women at their most vulnerable moments. But LC never disappoints. They also moonlight as a coach/domme/marriage destroyer (and maybe saver), and in that capacity, they’ve worked directly with the sort of men I write about—and often, gotten them to make real change. What started as a conversation about male loneliness turned into a sweeping fever dream about what it means to be a person, to love, and to truly court change. LC has a lot to say, and so much experience to draw upon, so I can promise you with certainty I will definitely be bringing them back! About LC DeShay LC is a genderqueer IBCLC, Doula, & reproductive health analyst & gender journalist who focuses on sexual ethnography. In the first 15 years of their career, they worked at the UCLA Roxbury & at various clinics on skid row facilitating and coordinating data collection and case management for various risk reduction sexual and behavioral health research projects. Once she completed her sexual health counseling & doula training, as well as completed her IBCLC credential at UCSD, began practicing with their local Midwifery and Pediatric private clinician group. She spent her time there fighting locally and on a state level to ensure that breastfeeding and perinatal mental health care was approved, covered, and included in ACA health care coverage, whilst advocating for universal health care and paid leave. LC also was then assistant instructor for the UC system global perinatal & lactation program and continued to work in L&D, Peds, NICU, and other reproductive in and out patient departments in UC, Providence, & civic hospitals & clinic systems up until the pandemic and the birth of their fourth child. In the last 5+ years, they expanded their career consulting with healthcare technology companies & communication in the sexual and family health fields to combat the impact of prejudice in technology and media for sexual and gender health. Though proud of their professional life by day, they use their platform as the Digital Dominatrix to advocate fiercely for the socioeconomic protection of domestic violence victims and sex workers of child bearing age “by night”. LC is also a married parent of four, a gender deconstructionist, & proud ecofeminist. Quick reminder that I’m sure you’re tired of hearing by now: This month, I’ve been inundated with messages from folks who love the new pace of podcasts—weekly instead of every other week. I love making the podcast and love giving you what you want, but the podcast is a ton of work, and it underperforms in the algorithm. My data show that people listen to the podcast, but they don’t otherwise engage after or before listening, which pushes it down in the all-powerful algorithm. So I’m asking for your help, and offering something in return: Please heart-react, leave a review, leave a substantive comment (not one-word comments, which actually hurt visibility in the algorithm), like, share, etc. This is hugely beneficial. I believe with a bit more engagement we can get this podcast performing just as well as my written work. I will continue posting weekly episodes through the month of November. If, by the end of that period, the podcast can get to 50,000 monthly downloads (double the usual number), then I will continue weekly posting. Let’s do it.

This month, I’ve been inundated with messages from folks who love the new pace of podcasts—weekly instead of every other week. I love making the podcast and love giving you what you want, but the podcast is a ton of work, and it underperforms in the algorithm. My data show that people listen to the podcast, but they don’t otherwise engage after or before listening, which pushes it down in the all-powerful algorithm. So I’m asking for your help, and offering something in return: Please heart-react, leave a review, leave a substantive comment, like, share, etc. This is hugely beneficial. I believe with a bit more engagement we can get this podcast performing just as well as my written work. I will continue posting weekly episodes through the month of November. If, by the end of that period, the podcast can get to 50,000 monthly downloads (double the usual number), then I will continue weekly posting. Let’s do it. In a patriarchy, motherhood is impossibly hard. That’s by design. Because if every woman struggles with motherhood, then every mother feels inadequate. This causes us to feel guilty, and to blame our challenges on our individual failings rather than correctly identifying the political forces that make motherhood feel so impossible. Alex Bollen has worked with mothers, especially in the vulnerable postpartum period, for years. Her new book, Motherdom: Breaking Free from Bad Science and Good Mother Myths, explores the politics of motherhood and especially how myths about “good mothers” set all mothers up for failure. In this podcast episode, we discuss a wide range of issues, including: The critical importance of motherhood as a focus of feminist activism. How the myth of the good mother (and its bad mother opposite) is used to control all women and all mothers. How patriarchy weaponizes “science” to control and shame mothers. The weaponization of attachment parenting. Why we pretend that mothers are stupid, and that nothing mothers do is challenging or intellectual. How disadvantaged mothers typically must accumulate more skills and ingenuity than other mothers, but are treated like they know and deserve less. The concept of unmothering, and how we rob Black and other less-privileged mothers of their status as mothers. How systems of oppression isolate women from other women and destroy systems of community. Why we devote so much energy to telling mothers to “tough it out,” while robbing them of all resources that would make it possible for them to manage the challenges of motherhood. About Alex Bollen Alex Bollen is the author of Motherdom: Breaking Free from Bad Science and Good Mother Myths. She was a director of the research agency Ipsos and is now a freelance researcher. Alex is also a Postnatal Practitioner with the NCT, the UK’s largest parenting charity, and has run groups for new mothers in London for over a decade. Motherdom is Alex’s first book. She was inspired to write it because she felt incensed about all the guilt-inducing garbage which is peddled about motherhood. You can find Alex’s book, as well as all other books recommended on the podcast, along with a detailed reading list, at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.

The devaluation of fatness in patriarchy is no accident—and it’s not about health. Patriarchy convinces every woman she’s fat, or at risk of becoming fat, and forces us to spend our lives thinking about our bodies instead of the things that truly matter most to us. As we’ve seen over and over again, a woman who hates herself is more vulnerable to abuse and less likely to abandon shame, band together with other women, and demand better. But we can and must demand better. Virginia Sole-Smith is on a mission to end anti-fatness and diet culture for good. She came on the show to talk to me about fatphobia, diet culture, and strategies for raising kids who are not so preoccupied by their bodies and food. Some of the topics we discuss include: What diet culture is, and how it extends well beyond diets. Why diet talk isn’t really about health, and how best to respond to concern-trolling about weight. Giving yourself permission to not forever live on a hamster wheel of weight loss. Healthy strategies for talking to kids about bodies, beauty, and weight. How to talk to kids about gendered beauty labor. Managing negative food and body messages from friends, school, and daycare—plus, when to opt out of diet and body-related assignments. Is perimenopause content diet content? The problem with Dr. Becky, and with parenting advice generally. How we can feel hopeful in a political climate that seeks to demoralize us. About Virginia Sole-SmithAs a journalist, Virginia Sole-Smith has reported from kitchen tables, graduated from beauty school, and gone swimming in a mermaid’s tail. Virginia’s latest book, Fat Talk: Parenting in the Age of Diet Culture, is a New York Times bestseller that investigates how the “war on childhood obesity” has caused kids to absorb a daily onslaught of body shame from peers, school, diet culture, and families— and offers research-based strategies to help parents name and navigate the anti-fat bias that infiltrates our schools, doctor’s offices and dinner tables.Virginia began her career in women’s magazines, alternatively challenging beauty standards and gender norms, and upholding diet culture through her health, nutrition and fitness reporting. This work led to her first book, The Eating Instinct: Food Culture, Body Image and Guilt in America, in which Virginia explored how we can reconnect to our bodies in a culture that’s constantly giving us so many mixed messages about both those things.Virginia’s work appears in the New York Times Magazine, Scientific American, and many other publications. She now writes the popular body liberation newsletter Burnt Toast and hosts the Burnt Toast Podcast. Virginia lives in New York’s Hudson Valley with her two kids, two cats, a dog, two geckos, eight chickens, and way too many houseplants.You can find all of Virginia’s books, all books we talk about on the podcast, and a ton of book recommendations at the Liberating Motherhood Bookshop.