The Rainmaking Podcast

In Episode 317 of The Rainmaking Podcast, Scott Love speaks with Pam Meissner of Cathedral Capital about “Exit Readiness for Law Firm Founders” and what it truly takes to prepare a law firm for a successful merger, acquisition, or succession transition. Pam explains why many law firm founders struggle emotionally after selling their firms and why exit planning is about far more than valuation—it’s about reducing owner dependency, building scalable systems, and preparing for life after the transaction. She outlines how buyers evaluate firms, including recurring growth, profitability, operational systems, team stability, and whether the business can function without the founder at the center of everything. The conversation also dives into the rise of private equity and managed service organizations (MSOs) in the legal industry, including what makes a firm attractive to buyers and the most common mistakes founders make when preparing for a sale. Pam shares practical strategies such as stepping away from the firm for 60–90 days to identify operational weaknesses, improving team retention, creating systems for business development, and increasing EBITDA and firm valuation over time. For law firm founders thinking about succession planning, mergers, or maximizing firm value before an exit, this episode delivers a highly practical roadmap for building a sellable law firm. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/z7XN3BkCpyU ---------------------------------------- If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here: https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott Or email Scott to connect with him at: scott@attorneysearchgroup.com ---------------------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals in law, consulting, recruiting, and beyond. 💡 Created for results-driven rainmakers who value credibility and substance. 💥 Now live — subscribe today www.therainmakingmagazine.com/info ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- Pam Meissner is a powerhouse in the world of finance and leadership, with a career that spans CFO, COO, and CEO roles across industries. Known for her ability to drive business growth, she has helped companies scale to billion-dollar valuations while navigating the complexities of financial strategy and operations. Her expertise lies in turning numbers into narratives—helping business leaders make informed, confident decisions that fuel long-term success. Beyond her financial acumen, Pam brings a global perspective to her work. She has traveled across multiple countries, immersing herself in different cultures and ways of thinking. These experiences have shaped her leadership philosophy, reinforcing the importance of adaptability, innovation, and diverse perspectives in building successful businesses. When she’s not advising business leaders, Pam is an award-winning baker, an avid reader known as “the book lady,” and a self-taught fashion designer—having learned to sew her own wardrobe when traditional stores failed to meet the needs of her six-foot-tall frame. Whether she’s strategizing financial turnarounds, perfecting the art of the perfect cake, or tackling new challenges head-on, she brings the same passion, precision, and problem-solving mindset to everything she does. Pam Meissner is more than a financial expert—she’s a leader who understands the power of adaptability, curiosity, and resilience in both business and life. Links: https://cathcap.com/contact-us/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-meissner/https://cathcap.com/our-books/ Rain Dance by LSSO, June 3-4, Chicago https://legalsales.org/lsso-raindance-conference-2026 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Episode 303 of The Rainmaking Podcast, Scott Love speaks with Jason Stiehl, Managing Partner of the Chicago office of Crowell & Moring, about a unique perspective on law firm business development: treating networking like theater. Jason explains why successful rainmakers approach conferences and networking events as a series of interactions over time rather than a quick sales pitch. Preparation, curiosity, and authentic connections are critical to building trust and long-term client relationships. They also discuss how lawyers can use conferences, presentations, and follow-up conversations to uncover shared interests and create genuine connections that lead to business opportunities. If you're looking to improve your law firm client development, rainmaking strategy, and professional networking, this episode offers practical insights from a practicing rainmaker. YouTube: https://youtu.be/Y5hDNsBYDCU -------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals in law, consulting, recruiting, and beyond. Now live — www.therainmakingmagazine.com -------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- Jason Stiehl is the managing partner of Crowell & Moring’s Chicago office, where he is a member of the firm’s Litigation and Brand & Technology Groups. Jason is an experienced trial lawyer with a nationwide practice in federal and state courts focusing on complex litigation, consumer class actions and advertising disputes. He serves clients in the retail, food and beverage, pharmaceutical and medical equipment, advertising and technology sectors defending allegations related to consumer fraud, false labeling and deceptive practices and Lanham Act violations. As a leading consumer class action defense lawyer, Jason also defends clients in matters involving the regulatory “alphabet soup”. His experience includes defense and counseling regarding the Illinois Biometric Information Privacy Act, the Telephone Consumer Protection Act, and navigating the myriad varying state consumer protection statutes, including California’s Legal Remedies Act (CLRA) and the California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA). In addition, Jason represents clients in complex litigation matters involving corporate espionage, restrictive covenants, trade secrets and other intellectual property claims, general unfair competition and complex disputes over post-acquisition escrows and earnouts. Links: https://www.crowell.com/en/professionals/jason-stiehl https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-stiehl-22a82b4/ The Managing Partner Lab https://surepoint.com/managing-partner-lab/ What is the MPL The Managing Partner Lab (MPL) is a collaborative two‑day, in‑person workshop designed exclusively for managing partners and executive directors. This is a working session built to help senior firm leaders step away from daily demands and focus on the issues that most directly influence firm performance. Across two days, participants engage in expert‑led discussions, peer collaboration, and practical workshops that translate industry insight into firm‑specific plans. The MPL brings together nationally recognized thought leaders in law‑firm economics, talent strategy, technology, and client expectations—along with facilitated opportunities to connect with peers facing similar challenges. Why Attend Mid‑sized firms are navigating unprecedented pressure: evolving talent dynamics, tightening margins, rapid technology disruption, and rising client expectations. Leaders need time and space to make sense of what’s changing—and determine what to do next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Episode 301 of The Rainmaking Podcast, Scott Love interviews business development coach and author Doug Ott about his book The Business Development Shift and how lawyers, consultants, and other professional services providers can grow their practices through intellectual curiosity, trust, and consistency. Doug explains why the best business development strategy is not selling harder, but solving better by asking thoughtful questions, listening closely, staying visible, and building genuine relationships over time. He shares practical advice on how attorneys can improve client development, avoid passive networking habits, use stronger follow-up language, and make business development a daily habit even with a demanding billable schedule. This episode is packed with actionable insights. YouTube: https://youtu.be/0O-4XaeM9QM ---------------------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals. 💡 Created for results-driven rainmakers who value credibility and substance. 💥 Now live — subscribe today www.therainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- Doug Ott is a business development coach and speaker who helps lawyers and consultants grow their practices through curiosity, trust, and consistent relationship-building, without pretending to be someone they’re not. He is the author of The Business Development Shift, a practical guide for professionals who want to win work by asking better questions, deepening relationships, and staying visible in a way that feels authentic and sustainable. Doug has more than 35 years of experience in sales, marketing, and business development leadership, including 20 years working closely with lawyers, consultants, and accountants. He previously led business development for Deloitte’s Forensic and Advisory practice, partnering with Fortune 100 general counsel and lawyers at leading international law firms. Today, Doug explains complex business development concepts in clear, practical terms and is known for helping professionals turn thoughtful conversations into long-term client relationships. He works with firms across the U.S. and internationally and delivers most of his coaching and training from his home base in Lake Tahoe, California. • Main website: www.dougottconsulting.com • Book page (order link): www.dougottconsulting.com/book • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dougott123/ ---------------------------------------- The Managing Partner Lab https://surepoint.com/managing-partner-lab/ What is the MPL The Managing Partner Lab (MPL) is a collaborative two‑day, in‑person workshop designed exclusively for managing partners and executive directors. This is a working session built to help senior firm leaders step away from daily demands and focus on the issues that most directly influence firm performance. Across two days, participants engage in expert‑led discussions, peer collaboration, and practical workshops that translate industry insight into firm‑specific plans. The MPL brings together nationally recognized thought leaders in law‑firm economics, talent strategy, technology, and client expectations—along with facilitated opportunities to connect with peers facing similar challenges. Why Attend Mid‑sized firms are navigating unprecedented pressure: evolving talent dynamics, tightening margins, rapid technology disruption, and rising client expectations. Leaders need time and space to make sense of what’s changing—and determine what to do next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episode 299 of The Rainmaking Podcast features Scott Love in conversation with Darren Wurz (author of The Lawyer Millionaire) on the most common personal-finance pitfalls attorneys face—and how to avoid them. Darren’s #1 warning is lifestyle creep: as income rises, spending rises with it (bigger house, cars, memberships, kids’ expenses), leaving high earners with surprisingly thin savings and heavy monthly burn. The fix starts with a mindset shift: define what truly drives happiness, think in concrete terms about “future you” (age + timeline), and recognize that money is a finite resource—especially when credit cards make overspending frictionless. From there, Darren shares a simple, tactical system for busy lawyers who hate budgeting: bank-account-based cash flow management (a “Profit First”-style approach). Income flows into an “income” account, then automatically gets allocated into separate accounts for bills (recurring expenses), spending (guilt-free discretionary), savings/investing, and taxes—so you always know what’s available and you’re prepared for quarterly tax hits. He recommends reviewing finances weekly (or at least twice monthly) to keep the data familiar and actionable. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/L1CQf-vrASc ---------------------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals in law, consulting, recruiting, and beyond. 💡 Created for results-driven rainmakers who value credibility and substance. 💥 Now live — subscribe today www.therainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- You’ve built a successful and thriving law practice. You have so much potential and so many ideas. But instead of feeling like you’ve arrived, do you feel stuck or behind in getting to your goals? Do you feel stressed, super busy, and worried about the future? You’re not alone. Many law firm owners I’ve worked with started out feeling the same way. They didn’t have a clear plan for their money and so they were spending too much, keeping too little, and feeling a bit lost and disorganized. I specialize in helping successful, entrepreneurial law firm owners master their money so they can maximize their true financial potential. You make a lot of money—there’s no reason why we can’t make your dreams a reality. I’ll help you get crystal clear about the future you want for you and your family, create some big, long-term strategic goals, and formulate and implement a detailed plan to achieve those goals. It’s about so much more than retirement. It’s about creating the life you want. And for law firm owners that also means creating a strategy for your law firm’s operation and future that supports your personal goals. This includes law firm profitability, business strategy, succession planning, selling your practice, and more. Let’s make your dreams a reality. To learn more, please visit TheLawyerMillionaire.com. 👉🏻P.S. Check out my free CLE: Retirement Planning Strategies for Law Firm Owners at www.retirementforlawyers.com (1.0 CLE in OH, KY, and IN) "Plan with care. Live with courage." ® Office: (859) 291-9879 **Investment advisory services offered through Schmerge Executive Planning Services, Inc., a registered investment adviser. Wurz Financial Services and Schmerge Executive Planning Services, Inc. are separate entities.** Links: https://www.amazon.com/Lawyer-Millionaire-Maximizing-Minimizing-Confidence/dp/1639051473 https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-wurz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Legal Episode 297 of The Rainmaking Podcast, Scott Love welcomes Chuck Curtis to discuss the unique challenges law firm partners face when considering a lateral move. Drawing on decades of experience in attorney recruiting and integration, Chuck explains that the decision to move should be driven primarily by platform fit—whether a firm truly supports and promotes a partner’s practice area. He emphasizes that partners must thoughtfully evaluate whether their current firm provides the marketing support, strategic alignment, and internal collaboration necessary to grow their book of business. Before going to market, partners should have candid conversations with leadership and, if moving as a group, align internally to ensure consensus and minimize risk. The episode also explores best practices for navigating the transition process, including handling compensation discussions, preparing for potential counteroffers, and managing group dynamics. Chuck highlights the importance of transparency, strategic planning, and cohesion—particularly when moving as a team. Successful lateral integrations, he notes, occur when partners understand their value proposition, collaborate early with their new colleagues, and treat the move as a long-term business decision rather than a short-term financial negotiation. For partners contemplating a move, this episode delivers practical guidance on reducing disruption and maximizing success in a competitive legal marketplace. Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/A-ragpjvPBY ---------------------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals in law, consulting, recruiting, and beyond. 💡 Created for results-driven rainmakers who value credibility and substance. 💥 Now live — subscribe today www.therainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- Chuck Curtis is a dynamic professional with nearly 40 years of professional services experience, including as Senior Director of Attorney Recruiting at Pillsbury from 2007 until his retirement in 2023. Shortly thereafter, he began his own coaching/consulting practice, utilizing his deep expertise and industry knowledge to consult with law firms regarding upgrading their partner hiring and integration processes, including aligning firm leadership with practice section leadership and recruiting leadership to developing winning hiring strategies and practices. He also provides strategic coaching to partners, associates, high-level internal recruiting leaders and external legal recruiters. Links: https://clcurtis31consulting.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-curtis-7461a39/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Michael Roch joins Scott Love to unpack a deceptively hard leadership challenge in professional services: getting partners to consistently do business development, and designing incentives that actually drive the right behavior. Roch’s central message is that there’s no universal compensation fix—the right approach depends on firm size, strategic priorities (rapid growth vs. deepening key relationships vs. refreshing a stale client base), and even national partnership culture (e.g., UK lockstep traditions vs. more individualistic U.S. models). He stresses that compensation is only a “lever,” not a self-executing solution: it works best when paired with strong leadership, clear expectations, and accountability conversations that tie each partner’s strengths and goals to the firm’s strategy. Roch describes practical incentive strategies that go beyond simple origination credit. He argues firms should recognize that partners contribute differently—some excel at landing new clients, others at expanding existing accounts, and others at protecting “crown jewel” relationships—so incentives should be aligned to those roles and tracked accordingly. Non-monetary incentives can matter too, such as giving junior partners meaningful internal initiatives to build an “equity-owner mindset,” and publicly recognizing teams (not just lone rainmakers). Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/ YouTube: https://youtu.be/Hl7GPJjpdfI ---------------------------------------- 📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine If you’re serious about growing your book of business, you’ll want to check out The Rainmaking Magazine — a monthly digital publication packed with insights, strategies, and real-world advice for professionals in law, consulting, recruiting, and beyond. 💡 Created for results-driven rainmakers who value credibility and substance. 💥 Now live — subscribe today www.therainmakingmagazine.com ---------------------------------------- This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/ ---------------------------------------- Michael Roch guides partnership boards, managing partners, and senior leaders globally on architecting strong partnerships and on leading their organizations to competitive growth. Michael has advised dozens of organizations become market leaders in relation to their: Global partnering strategy Partner profit sharing, compensation, and reward Partnership governance, leadership, and execution Michael’s most recent book is The Partner Compensation Handbook, the comprehensive guide on profit sharing in professional services partnerships (together with Performance Leader's CEO Ray D’Cruz, Globe Publishing 2022). Michael's clients range from multinational partnerships and alliances to mid-sized firms to start-ups across the globe; most operate in the professional services, technology, and related sectors. All of them value how Michael’s partnerships advice is infused by his hands-on experience as an entrepreneur and leader of partnerships - and how he brings together a unique combination of in-depth experience around partnership economics, governance, organizational design, motivation, and reward to help clients drive growth. Links: https://www.mhpradvisors.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelroch/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/mhpradvisors e: hello@mhpradvisors.com Receive MHPR Insights: https://www.mhpradvisors.com/insights-signup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices