It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening? This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen. *We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world. Dr. Gold’s new book, How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit drjessigold.com In this episode we cover: Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine? How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!) We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at drjessigold.com and on social media @drjessigold Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book - How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Physician Support Line on social @shrink.rapping American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on social @afspnational Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub developed by @theNAMedicine The Emotional PPE Project Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. In this episode we cover: - How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others - Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions - How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm - Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment - Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom. Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here. Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. In this episode we cover: Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable) Navigating racism in the corporate world We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit errolpierre.com About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Read Errol’s book - The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer” Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you hide in plain sight? From trans beauty pageants in the Philippines, to the catwalks of New York City fashion week, to the Ted Talk mainstage – Filipina-American model Geena Rocero has lived an astounding life. This week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the author of Horse Barbie: A Memoir shares what it costs to suppress your true self in order to find safety and success, and why joy is powerful medicine. Geena Rocero is a trans advocate, speaker, and author of the new book, Horse Barbie. In this episode we cover: Why do we have to talk about gender all the time anyway? How can parents support trans children? The history of trans beauty pageants in the Philippines Why joy - and a sense of humor - are real survival tools We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related Episodes: Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle If I Survived, You Can Too! Author Emi Nietfeld on the Hollowness of the Transformation Narrative Over and Over Again: Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the Power of Storytelling About our guest: Geena Rocero is a Filipina-American model, public speaker, author, and trans rights advocate. Ms. Rocero made history as the first trans woman ambassador for Miss Universe Nepal, and the first trans Asian Playboy Playmate of the Year. Her TED Talk, “Why I Must Come Out,” has been viewed over 3.7 million times. She’s an advisory board member of SeeHer, a global coalition working to increase representation and accurate portrayal of all women and girls in marketing, media, and entertainment. She’s spoken at the White House and United Nations, and has been featured on CNN, MSNBC, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Vanity Fair, and Variety. Her book Horse Barbie: A Memoir was named one of the Best Memoirs of 2023 by Elle Magazine. Find her @geenarocero on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Watch Geena’s TED Talk “Why I Must Come Out” Read Geena’s book - Horse Barbie: A Memoir Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re in a massive climate crisis, but it’s hard to think about it, isn’t it? It’s a great temptation to shut our eyes to climate change. It’s overwhelming. This week on the show, climate activist and author Bill McKibben on facing the reality of the climate crisis, understanding what needs to change, and what you can do - not just to change the course of humanity and the planet, but to feel more hopeful and connected as this all unfolds. In this episode we cover: Is halting climate change really dependent on personal recycling and whether we use plastic straws? Is it okay to have intense emotional responses to wildfires, floods, and the inaction of those “in charge”? How the boomer generation is using their experience and wealth to revisit the activism of their youth (and supporting younger activists at the same time) How talking about our fears and our ecological grief gives us common ground to fight for our future - and our present. We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. For more on activism in the face of impossible odds listen to these related episodes: Women, Life, Freedom: Grief and Power In Iran, with Nazanin Nour Wonder in an Age of Violence with Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Bill McKibben is an American environmentalist, author, and journalist who has written extensively on the impact of global warming. His books include The End of Nature, about climate change, and Falter: Has the Human Game Begun to Play Itself Out?, about the state of the environmental challenges facing humanity. Bill is a contributing writer to The New Yorker (read his latest piece here), and founder of Third Act, which organizes people over the age of sixty for progressive change. About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Terry Tempest Williams’ book Refuge: An Unnatural History of Family and Place, and her recent NYT article on Utah’s great Salt Lake (gift link, no subscription needed) Explore Joanna Macy’s work on the intersection of grief and activism at her website, or her books, including Coming Back to Life: The Updated Guide to the Work That Reconnects, World as Lover, World as Self, and Widening Circles: A Memoir Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would a meaningful life look like for you? According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have. It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better. Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com In this episode we cover: What’s a Death Doula? Does being honest about death give you access to joy? Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope? Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead) The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around. We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers About our guest: Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human Going with Grace Megan mentions this book - Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry? In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly. In this two-part episode we cover: What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??) Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK. If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when someone cuts you out of their life? How do you back away slowly from someone you really don’t want to be around? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY. This week on It’s OK, part one of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover: Why relational self-awareness is the key to all good relationships Can step-parents and adult step-kids get along after a loss in the family? How to negotiate the relationship you want when the other people maybe don’t want you around The difference between “letting go of outcome” and setting yourself up for success We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back. You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s no denying the grief that permeates everyday life. It’s in the news, in our communities, and in our personal lives. The thing is - we never really talk about how much this grief connects us. This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone - whether you’re grieving a personal loss or you’re an activist of any kind. It was recorded in the summer of 2023, so you will not hear us mention P*lestine - you can bet if we’d recorded it now, that grief, and that need for belonging, would be present. If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril, through her death in 2018. In this episode we cover: The difference between sorrow and grief How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive? Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief? Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, The Atlantic, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them at @radical_loss Instagram. About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Read “The Antidote to Authoritarianism” from The Atlantic Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it? Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sam Sanders is a well known and well loved radio and podcast host. He went a little extra-viral for a recent episode of his show, Vibe Check, in which he and his co-hosts openly discussed grief. Maybe you heard that episode: Life Has Been Lifing Lately. This week on It’s OK That You’re Not OK, Sam joins us to talk about being open with his grief, and the ongoing relationships we have even after death. In this episode we cover: What happens if you give grief a voice? The double-edged sword of church communities Why understanding context helps you treat yourself more kindly How men speaking honestly about grief helps everyone Throwing out the rule book on grief We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: A Renaissance of our Own: Rachel Cargle Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle About our guest: Sam Sanders is the host of Into It, the flagship culture podcast from Vulture, and the co-host of Vibe Check on Stitcher. He covered electoral politics for NPR, and was one of the original co-hosts of The NPR Politics Podcast. Sam also created and hosted the NPR news & culture podcast, It’s Been a Minute. Find him on social @samsanders About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s no secret that healthcare professionals and caregivers of all kinds are stretched beyond their limits. We can’t look to healthcare systems themselves to give us the care and attention we need, so where CAN we go for support (and answers)? Don’t miss this week’s episode with guests Koshin Paley Ellison and Chodo Robert Campbell of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. In this episode we cover: Why it’s important to look beyond the identified patient to the invisible web of caregivers The realities of caregiver burnout and stress The one practice you can do even - and especially - when you have no time to care for yourself Do you stay or do you go? Making decisions for yourself inside this healthcare system catastrophe We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guests: Sensei Chodo Robert Campbell is co-founder of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. His passion lies in bereavement counseling and advocating for change in the way our healthcare institutions work with the dying. Find Chodo and the NYZC @newyorkzencenter on IG, and online at zencare.org Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, Jungian psychotherapist, and Certified Chaplaincy Educator. He is the author of Wholehearted: Slow Down, Help Out, Wake Up and the co-editor of Awake at the Bedside: Contemplative Teachings on Palliative and End of Life Care. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: If you work in healthcare, I very strongly recommend you check out New York Zen Center’s Contemplative Medicine Fellowship. To hear one of my favorite passages of all time, read by Chodo Robert Campbell, check out the first video at this link. All of the Zen Center’s offerings, from books to support groups to ongoing educational opportunities can be found at zencare.org. Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tembi Locke lived an amazing love story: she met a handsome chef during a study abroad year in Italy when she was just 20 years old. They moved to LA to pursue Tembi’s acting career, and built a life around their love of food, family, and each other. And then leiomyosarcoma arrived. Is it still a Hollywood love story if it doesn’t have a happy ending? In this episode we cover: Who’s the real couple behind the hit Netflix series, From Scratch? Why Tembi made sure From Scratch was an honest guide to profound loss How the sleeper hit show Eureka taught Tembi that it’s ok to let people help How Tembi Locke learned about the grief in Never Have I Ever only after the show came out We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses Related episodes : Live Each Day Like It’s Your First: with Alua Arthur Grief In Fiction, Grief In Life, with Best-Selling Author, Emily X.R. Pan About our guest: Tembi Locke is a writer, executive producer, and an accomplished actor. Her best-selling book, From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home was the basis for the hit Netflix series, From Scratch. Find her @tembilocke About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Read Tembi Locke’s book - From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you heal pain by focusing on joy? Baratunde Thurston gave what’s been called “the greatest TED talk of all time.” He’s written about being Black in America, he’s got a podcast about community involvement called How to Citizen, and he’s got a PBS television show that explores the beauty and diversity of America. There’s a duality running through all of this work, and in Baratunde’s personal life: mourning and celebration. From the early death of a parent, to men’s emotional health, to violence against Black men and boys, to the healing power of play and community, this week’s episode is a fascinating discussion of both grief and celebration - and why you don’t get one without the other. In this episode we cover: Baratunde says he’s “wired for optimism” - which makes identifying his own grief… complicated How you can lose a parent at a young age and not recognize the impact until you’re an adult Why seeing other people be good parents can bring up grief Black joy and men’s community (plus the hashtag #BlackMenFrolicking) Why is it hard to play as an adult - and find other adults to play with? We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023. Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Baratunde Thurston is an Emmy-nominated, multi-platform storyteller and producer operating at the intersection of race, tech, democracy, and climate. He is the host of the PBS television series America Outdoors with Baratunde Thurston, creator and host of How To Citizen with Baratunde, and a founding partner of the new media startup Puck. His comedic memoir, How To Be Black, is a New York Times best-seller. Baratunde serves on the boards of BUILD.org and the Brooklyn Public Library. Find him at baratunde.com and follow him on social media @baratunde About Megan: Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Read Baratunde’s book - How to be Black Baratunde’s TED talk How to Deconstruct Racism, One Headline at a Time ‘America is addicted to watching me die…’ - Baratunde’s Puck article "Thoughts & Tears For Tyre" Baratunde mentioned Valarie Kaur - get her book, See No Stranger, and listen to her episode on It’s OK that You’re Not OK Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.